0:03  
This is wheel bearings. I'm Dan Roth

0:05  
and I'm Sam Abuelsamid.

0:07  
So here we are in the post CES posts nihilists apples, Utah, post Utah, yeah. Can you talk about

0:15  
that? I can say that I was in Utah for a few days last week to drive a Honda passport. And you'll have to wait till next week to, to hear what I think about it. Okay, we can say this, that, you know the the landscape and Utah is absolutely unreal.

0:32  
Is it your first time in Utah?

0:34  
Yes. First time I've been out there, I've I've flown over that region countless times. Because the flight path between LA x and Detroit Metro airport goes directly over like, pretty much over that the area where I was.

0:47  
And so it was it was amazing to see it from ground level or, or in some cases, you know, from like, 2000 feet up looking down into a canyon.

0:56  
Yeah, yeah, it's impressive landscape out there. And unfortunately, you didn't get to try the skiing but from what I hear it's really, really good.

1:04  
Yeah. And, you know,

1:06  
right in the area where we were around Moab they don't actually have a whole lot of smell. It's kind of a desert region. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, not that far away is some pretty amazing skiing, you know, Park City and other places. So that was interesting stuff. And we'll talk more about the passport next week.

1:23  
Yeah, in the meantime, we've got lots of stuff we can actually offer our opinions on this week and that includes that we've been driving So Sam you've been in a couple of different couple of different cars one big one small so

1:42  
yeah

1:43  
so you know it was my turn to get into the new key of 40 X and you know that largely concur with most of what you said few weeks ago when when you had a chance to drive it you know, I've been a drone quite fond of kiya Hyundai model over the last several years. And particularly, the key is, you know, I really like the way this 40 x looks,

2:08  
I'd like to see kiya do I had another hatchback version of this forte like they did with the last generation with the 45. I don't know if they will, just because, you know, for whatever silly reasons, Americans don't seem to want to buy that form factor. But, you know, it's a, it's a really good car overall, you know, I would like to see, you know, a little more powerful engine available in it, you know, as we talked about last time, it's just the, the 1.4 liter naturally aspirated engine in there right now, which is, you know, it's adequate. You know, I think most people that are going to be interested in a car in this segment will probably be more than satisfied with the performance you get from it. I was,

2:55  
I felt like, it was a half liter bigger, almost, it almost felt like, like, a 1.8, I wasn't, yeah,

3:00  
it did, it did feel stronger than a than you would expect a naturally aspirated one for to feel, you know, I, you know, I'd like to see, you know, maybe a one six or, you know, one for turbo, something like that, you know, with maybe 160 hundred 70 horsepower, I think that would be a great pairing with the second half of this, got it, it's got a good platform, good chassis, really nice interior, you know, for what is effectively a, you know, close to entry level car, you know, the X is the top trim level, and, you know, so this one was about 25 grand, but it was really well equipped with sunroof and all the Driver Assist stuff and everything else. So, yeah, you know, I liked it a lot.

3:42  
It's interesting, I was reading through Car and Driver, the latest issue where they do the 10 best. And I think their take on the Forte was said it, it actually it's cheap car that looks cheaper than it is or feels to me, and maybe I'm wrong. There was another key as the fastest way. But I was like, Well, that didn't match up with my experience. And I wonder if it's just that the extra time which is what we've both driven now is nicer than, you know, a lot nicer than some of the other lower trims because he is very good at that.

4:17  
Yeah,

4:18  
I agree. I think that, you know, it's, you know, it does feel, you know, at least in the extreme, it feels like more car than you would expect at that price point. You know,

4:29  
I guess the, the one the one other thing that I might that did strike me when I was driving it is, it does feel like they may be reduced the amount of sound insulation a little bit because on the highway in particular, it did feel like there was a little more road noise coming through, then I recall, I mean, it's been probably two or three years since I drove the plus previous generation forte,

4:54  
but, you know, it felt like there was maybe a little more noise coming through, particularly, you know, around the greenhouse, you know, like some, I think, maybe the, they made the class a little thinner, you know, and maybe, you know, didn't use acoustic glass like you would find on some higher level cars. But it wasn't a you know, it wasn't terrible, wasn't objectionable? It just seemed like, I guess, compared to, you know, some of the more premium stuff I've been driving lately, it did seem like there was, you know, a little more of the outside world intruding

5:27  
and what kind of fuel economy you getting, I

5:31  
got about 3334 miles per gallon. That's not too bad. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, again, considering, you know, this is not a hybrid or anything, it's just, you know, just a basic, basic vehicle. It, it was, it was great. I was, you know, I was very impressed with it. And I think

5:49  
the, you know, I think for somebody that's looking to maybe buy a new car for the very first time, and I think the, the Rio that I drove last month, you know, is probably, you know, even in a little better choice, it's a little bit smaller, it's certainly cheaper, or more, more

6:05  
what I was thinking that car driver bashed that that could be,

6:08  
yeah, you know, the real Definitely, yeah, but, you know, I mean, the real cost, you know, the one I drove us, I think, just over 19 grand, right? You know, so, it's, it's a much more affordable car, it's one of the few cars you can get any more for under $20,000 new. So, you know, I think to you know, it when you look at it in that context of what it costs and what the real cost, I think that it, you know, you're getting a great value for, for your money on that one, you know, and this one is a little more expensive, it's a little bit better, feels a little more premium, you know, and I think it just had, you know, just to touch more power and, you know, maybe just a touch thicker glass to, you know, to drown out some of the, the exterior sound, I think people would really love it.

7:00  
Just, you know, that car and a set of those foam earplugs. Yeah, just turn up the stereo. There you go. And then eventually, you'll blow what you're hearing so you won't have

7:13  
Alright, so the other car you had was the 2019 Toyota Avalon. So

7:18  
yeah, and you know, I've driven many Avalon over the years. I think the first time I ever drove an Avalon was back in the mid 90s. And I think that was probably the second generation what after they went to the Avalon nameplate you know, prior to that, I think to what did they they they had some other branding on their their biggest toy to add some other branding on their biggest sedan. But back in the mid 90s, if you remember, like the second gen Avalon, it had very upright sides, you know, the greenhouse, you know, it looked when you look at it from straight ahead or straight behind. It almost looked the square.

7:57  
It was quite a Buick.

7:58  
Yeah, it was even out Buick to most Buicks. Yeah. It was. It was not a graceful looking car.

8:07  
But it is an outstanding car. Oh, yeah.

8:09  
I mean, mission. Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, based on the Camry platform, you know, it was dead reliable. You know, it was thoroughly unexciting, but it was, you know, it did everything you expected a Toyota sedan to do, which was to run forever, with minimal minimal intervention. You know, aside from some oil changes and filters,

8:31  
so many old men with hats drove those, they're always like that light, bluish green. And they were always doing like, 10 under the limit in front of me on the left places to go. Yeah,

8:43  
so I remember that vividly.

8:44  
The new Avalon that debuted last year you know, is very much unlike that in many respects, and like it I think, let's put see from the side, you know, from the profile view or from a rare three quarters you I think it's really, really attractive, you know,

9:05  
I think it's a very good looking sedan from the front. I think it suffers from the same disease that a lot of recent generation Toyotas do in that you know, it's got too much grill and it's maybe a bit over styled and the front

9:22  
or maybe a lot over styled. It does have a tremendous amount of grill and I think, you know, maybe toning that down a little bit would not hurt but once you get inside it and you know, and drive it, you know, it it's you know, it's on the latest t nga platform. It's I think it's the biggest iteration yet of the T. nga You know, it had it's got the toy to 3.5 liter V six in there was about I think about 280 horsepower. So, it's, you know,

9:54  
it's an outstanding full size sedan, you know,

10:00  
like anything about that.

10:01  
Yeah, you know, and if, you know, like, you know, like the Camry and and even, you know, the latest generation Prius, you know, it actually drives really well. It's got, you know, good, good balance, good, you know, decent feel to it, you know, good performance, the

10:18  
the infotainment system is much better than what we've had in Twitter's in recent years it's you know, still lacking in some stuff it does now finally have Apple Car Play support and where it is that it will eventually get Android Auto support Baldo for for whatever reason, they have not yet implemented that, you know,

10:39  
so, you know, it's, it's just a really good big sedan if that's what you're interested in.

10:46  
Yeah, I mean, so, the last couple generations of Avalon have really, for me, they filled the void left by Oldsmobile, you know, they feel like a really nice Cutlass used to and that in that sense, like, they're just the stylish there, they hint at being sporty. Er, they say, like, we wanted you to think this was sporty, but actually really being terribly. So, I mean, they're fine. They don't embarrass themselves

11:11  
in the previous generations, you know, that, you know, they the, especially the last generation, you know, kind of had the design going in the right direction. Yeah, you know, the, the chassis was still a bit too soft, and, you know, uninspired, you know, and they really fixed that with the new one.

11:30  
Yeah, and I think all of that together, it's really come into its own and sort of like a, it is just an Uber Camry in that sense. It's just, it does the things the camera does. It looks now it looks very much like the Camry it's like it's it's like the big gulp Camry,

11:46  
but especially the grill. You know, it's like it's gulping here,

11:50  
that's for sure. And it's weird. Because you think that that would be like an aerodynamic problem versus some smoother body? Where

11:57  
would be if, if most of it wasn't not blocked off? There's no actual airflow through there. Yeah, that I mean, most most of what's there is there purely for aesthetic reasons for for good or ill.

12:09  
Yeah, it's the honest static specs for sure. So what did you think of the controls inside because it's got this like, it has that screen up up high. But it's not, it's not as tacked on as we've seen in other cars, it's this other element where this the H back controls are there too. So it's almost you know, that it's integrated a little bit better in some ways, and it looks like it's got physical controls for the HPC underneath,

12:34  
what did you think of all the control schemes, because that's one of the things that I still have some trouble with in some Toyota's is like, it's not quite as clear as, like, we were just talking about, like, key or Hyundai, you know, the controls in this look like, they're pretty good. But I'm, I'm sure there's some good, some bad.

12:51  
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's, there's a lot of buttons there, you know, and there for, you know, you do have, you know, rotary knobs for volume and tuning for the audio, there's a row buttons across the bottom there just above the shifter, you know, for the various climate stuff, you know, the Fockers and see heaters and things like that, that are, you know, kind of undistinguished from each other. So, you do have to kind of look at it to figure out which one it is you want.

13:21  
But, you know, aside from that, you know, it basically, you know, it works pretty well, I didn't have any major complaints about it, you know, mostly a lot of the stuff that the most important stuff is, you know, right on the steering wheel stocks, you know, cruise control, and your audio controls are right there on the on the steering wheel spokes. I mean, they're all right there, you know, it was definitely nice to have, you know, heated seats and heated steering wheel, you know, when we had some, some cold weather last week. So, you know, I can't really complain too much about it,

13:54  
I think, you know, there's a, there's a little storage area just below the center stack ahead of the shifter, that's a little awkward to get stuff in and out of me, that's good, Neil very, it's a good place to stick your phone. But, you know, it doesn't, you know, that kind of the openings on the side and to the, to the right of this, of the shift lever are kind of little bit awkwardly placed, and the way the cup holder is, you know, you've got to cupholders immediately to the right, of the shift flavor. Yeah. So if you have a big coffee cup, and those cupholders, you know, kind of access to that storage area, you know, becomes even more

14:35  
awkward, let's just finish that. So, yeah, it's, you know, a certain, you know, but, I mean, those are, I guess, those are the kinds of things that, you know, if you have to live with the car,

14:47  
they might get annoying after a while, that, you know, there is a large center console been, you know, under the arm rest, you know, so, there's plenty of storage space there. So, I guess most most likely, if, if I was driving this car on a daily basis for, you know, years on end, I probably wouldn't use that storage area in the mail and the front underneath the center stack very much just because it's, it's not very well placed to get stuff in and out of, but, you know, everything else about it generally works fine. Yeah, well, I wonder if that's is there as a storage unit like storage area, but it's also there to look open and make it feel less? Yeah, I think it's, I think it's more for that than anything else, you know, and, you know, this is a trend You know, we've seen in recent years

15:41  
usually, you know, very often you know, what you'll find as manufacturers have gone away from mechanical shift flavors for the, for the for the transmission which the still has still has a mechanical shifter as they've moved towards, at least on the non hybrid versions as it moved towards electronic shifters, you know, whether it's rotary shift knobs or push buttons what they've tended to do is that console has had more of an upward sweep there and you actually have that storage area underneath that's accessible only from the sides you know from either the driver passenger side and that that's actually that can actually works out fairly well you know like if you're going to store a purse or small bag under there you can usually stick that under there that works fine

16:25  
you know one thing that you know that the Avalon doesn't have in that storage area in the front there's no USB ports up there and the one I had did not have didn't even have a wireless charging pad for for your phone if you got a phone that supports the wireless charging

16:44  
the Avalon was I think like the first offer that to back so I'm surprised yeah the one the one

16:49  
I had didn't have it you know i'm not i'm not sure if it's a standalone option on on other trim levels the one I had was a touring and that you didn't have that feature there

17:02  
isn't touring like I mean I maybe it's not there's the term but the

17:05  
the limited is the top trim level

17:08  
yeah i mean that seems like a feature everybody has their device you should figure out how to make it easy to charge you know I like the car so now that have the your some of them have a white outline or just they'll tell you what the high

17:21  
icon usually usually all yeah that will the USB ports are actually in the center console like the been that's underneath the armrest. Yeah, that's I think what they're trying to end Yeah, well, I think what they're trying to encourage there is you know, put the put in a plug, plug your phone in and stick it in there so it's you don't want it to be handy. I have resisted every opportunity for other people to encourage me to do the right thing throughout her life damn car is not going to do it. Now.

17:53  
I generally stash the phone and the couple there. And I find that if there's USB ports in the console it you know, underneath there, like in front of the shifter that to me seems better than having to open the armrest and then run the wire and haven't futz around the cable set. Maybe that's just me.

18:10  
Yeah, I mean, usually, you know, if there's USB ports, you know, right at the front of the console there, you know, in that space, ahead of the shifter, I'll usually have a short USB cable, you know, when I get in the car, I'll just plug it in there. So it's not, it's not really you know, amenable to, to picking up the phone that way, you know, so it's charging and it's connected. And, you know, if I'm using Android Auto, you know, it, it's working that way, you know, and that way that the cables not dangling around, either, you know, in this particular one, because they because they USB ports are inside that been under the arm rest, you know, I had the cable running out of there. And as you said, the phone sitting in the couple or instead, yeah,

18:51  
well, you know, that's the, as we continue to carry these devices with this, and they, you know, fashion now as they continue to get larger too. So, automakers are having to contend with that and we'll see their their different solutions for it. Um, I guess the last thing I'm curious about is that again, that been up in front there, it looks like there's a very thick plastic bezel around the whole thing. Um, what's the what are the materials? Like, is that going to just look crappy? Or does it look

19:21  
not? The materials are good, you know, it's a it looks like it's a very high quality plastic there. So you're talking about the storage area ahead of the shifter?

19:32  
Yeah, there's just like, you see how it comes. Basically it's the trim that actually comes down to is the surround all the way back to the armrest right? It goes around the shifter and everything

19:42  
yeah, no, I mean it's a it's a high quality matte plastic material you know, it doesn't it doesn't look cheap you know and you know it's not it's not the kind of overly glossy thing that I think won't won't necessarily age well you know, I think it'll be it'll be fun you know, five or 10 years you know of use I think it'll probably look fine it'll be easy to clean

20:07  
you know but still look you know relative You know, I think it fits in with the rest of the interior you know what the leathers and the wood trim that's in there as well

20:16  
yeah, because that has been a challenge and Toyota has more more so a few years ago but there was there was one or two generations of the camera where you just cut it in here like what happened yeah

20:29  
no it doesn't it doesn't look like it's been cost reduced you know it looks like you know they've picked a material that should hold up well you know that doesn't look cheap now and should hold up well over the life of the car

20:42  
and also entire this defense it looks like if you have wireless charging the phone will talk in front of the shifter that's that's where the wireless charging pad goes again right though the one I had didn't didn't seem to have that there okay

20:57  
so I guess the key is just just by the wireless charger

21:02  
and all of our complaints go away

21:05  
all right well i i had a good opportunity to sample what you can get for $50,000 there's a very interesting couple of weeks

21:17  
a couple weeks ago they dropped off a

21:21  
2019 Dodge Challenger RT with the Scat Pack and the wide body appearance kit and z the tires

21:32  
that's kind of the demon look without without the demon engine

21:36  
yeah but it still has the big me It had the 6.4 liter 485 horsepower 485 pounds of torque the key

21:45  
that's a lot

21:46  
basically like driving a Hellcat with the black key instead of the red key

21:49  
yeah it's plenty of power and it's gorgeous It was a gorgeous green I really really like the challenger it's you know it's a stylish cars still it's it's definitely distinctive and it says something about the driver whether or not you agree with that what that statement it makes it It sounds fantastic you know just has that that VA bark and rumble

22:18  
yes so So are you saying that this is the kind of car that might hint that the that the owner driver is a middle aged guy with a decent income and some some insecurities about his masculinity

22:33  
either yeah that or one of my co workers so let me pull in with it in the morning as well that's a car for a guy who pulls out

22:45  
I suppose it seems more like a car for grandpa because those are the guys that remember

22:53  
the original challengers

22:54  
cars again really like it's a fantastic car I love the challenger I don't care how old it is the biggest issue I had with it

23:02  
and amazingly it's actually gotten better with age

23:05  
oh yeah well I mean they're at this point now we're off development has long been paid off for that car so just like well okay what can we do with it you know and they keep making it you know different different versions and that's that's really the only thing that's going to sell challengers now it's like well this one this year it has the new color right and it's been around for what since 2001 of

23:30  
the freshman about 10 nine

23:33  
maybe a seven to seven or eight years before it was just before the recession

23:40  
wow yeah yeah it's been around for a long time and there's there's nothing wrong with it though it drives really well I love the clothes couple feel of it

23:51  
so this the Scat Pack and the way this car was configured is really quite a commitment it's this is not everyday car I you can you can use it that way but it's it's really designed like this is the car that you drive to the track on on the nights you can go drag racing and you drag race with it it can do you know it's set up with that car tires on it and the suspension was set up for you know basically it handled pretty well except for the temperatures for low so zero rated tires under 40 degrees not a good combination yeah no they get really really greasy they just don't have any traction

24:37  
but you can you can take this car and go to your motor sports thing and come back with it and it had a receipt delete so I couldn't take anybody in it

24:49  
but it you know i'm i'm enthusiastic that Chrysler offers this because it really like it is a particular car for a particular buyer and it's great that does exist and you know I like to close coupled challenger cockpit it's a good GT. This is not this is not a GT kind of challenger. Like leave the Scat Pack on the wide body kit off or get the challenge of gt itself that's a better sort of grant or this car is a lot more purposeful but it's it's fantastic. And it's so much performance for $50,000. I was astounded when I priced it out like this. That's that's got to be a mistake. It can't be that cheap. Because it's it's quick. It's got big

25:36  
150 thousand dollars. Seems like a lot of money.

25:38  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we were just talking about you know, starter cars that were $25,000 right? Yeah, I mean, uh, yeah, it snowed while I had it. And so I left it park so I spent a bunch of time actually reviewing the 2006 Hyundai Sonata

26:00  
I borrowed it from my mother in law because the Crown Victoria last time I drove that last couple times I drove that getting a grinding out of the rear brakes when I use them so that says to me that it pads and rotor time

26:12  
yeah

26:13  
and I didn't want to push my luck because I probably done about 120 miles on it doing that it's like I should not do that anymore. So now I have boxes of pads and rotors sitting down in the living room ready to swap on I just have to find the time to do it now.

26:30  
But yeah, I thought the fleet guy was actually going to get stuck with it because there was still some snow and ice and it's like man this car it's a handful in a good way when it's dry and the temperatures are good you know it's a car that commands some respect and and that I find that very entertaining we've talked about that I like cars that are a little bit evil but it felt to me like I was like I should not be out in these conditions with this car like this is just straight up a responsible me and so I parked it as much as I could while the weather was actually bad. So you just have to bear that in mind. I think it would have been a lot more docile on winter tires but even so it's got a lot of power and there's no winter mode and the transmission but I'm very pleased that I got to spend time with because I just just every time I drive a challenge I just really enjoy it because it's just that kind of car you know

27:25  
yeah no I agree. I agree and for what it's worth the modern challenger came out in 2008 2009

27:33  
modeling

27:34  
wow 10 years already

27:37  
mean restyled it they was a 2015

27:41  
yeah i mean if tweaked it a few times over the years you know they they redid the tail lights say updated the the grill a bit you know the VA versions have you know the in board headlamps you know are now you have open centers you know for Aaron takes there too a defeat the big homies don't know feel when you had or at least on the higher power one. Certainly on the all the hell cats. I do. I think on the on the Smarties. You know the the all the the 6.4 liter Hemi versions, I think have that as well.

28:16  
Um, yeah, this one wasn't quite an SRT so

28:21  
it I think it just had regular luck and lights. I mean, it just it looks fantastic. I really liked coming home to like sitting in the driveway. And it's a good looking car. And you know,

28:31  
it's just the challenge your thing and that's Yeah,

28:34  
it's it's a design that is held up remarkably well. It has aged very well you know it when it came out, you know, it was clearly you know, a throwback to the original you know, 1970 Challenger and a lot of ways but, you know, it wasn't so retro that it that it you know, that it looks out of place then or, you know, now 10 years later,

28:59  
yeah, I'm I really this this is a car that has a lot of charm, and all the things that are good about it are still good about it. You know, the seats are comfortable. The controls are fairly easy to use. It's easy to drive, but you know, visibility is a little bit low. You're going to get that I mean, it's still better than a Camaro

29:24  
has a decent chunk. It

29:25  
has, of course, you know, sitting sitting in a refrigerator box has better visibility than a Camaro. But right.

29:30  
Yeah, you can see out of the, like, the handles on the side.

29:35  
When you don't pay $1 to get rid of the rear seat. You can hold you know, humans in it. So, you know, the challenger continues to to be charming. I do wish they made version of the GT with the VA, that would be, I think, my favorite configuration, but they don't make decisions based on what I like. So that's, that's fine. And then this week, I'm still driving the truth 19 Volvo as 60. So the first one

30:03  
I'm interested to hear your your opinions on. Yes, that's quite new. Um,

30:09  
so first of all, actually, one when we talked about the a couple weeks ago now, I got curious enough to actually call our friend at Volvo. And he answered some questions for me. And so yes, census feel snappier because they have increased the processor speed across all models.

30:30  
So we were correct. Yay. For us.

30:34  
So we were just imagining it. No, that wasn't. It wasn't just a case of Stockholm Syndrome with the

30:41  
system. Very nice. nicely.

30:46  
Elbows on the other side of the country. But yeah.

30:49  
Oh, that's right. They're not there and Gothenburg.

30:51  
Yeah,

30:53  
that whatever. It's Sweden. It's not that big of a country. It's like, what the size of Virginia?

30:57  
Actually, you'd be surprised how big it is.

30:59  
Nowadays, it

31:00  
goes all the way up to the Arctic. So yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah, it's it's actually pretty large part isn't. That's true. Yes. The park that has most of the human population is relatively small. Yeah, there's plenty. There's plenty of reindeer in the north saw

31:15  
that set? Yeah. And called by the testing. Yeah, so yes, the processor has been updated for, for better response. And so that's noticeable. And it's noticeable here in the 60 as well. The other thing he told me, which made me laugh was that the most of the complaints about the ergonomics and census he gets from journalists, the people who buy the cars don't complain about it, because they get used to. And I was like, okay, that's, that's fair. And so, you know, I wanted to make sure those of us that only

31:44  
drive them for a week at a time, you know, once every few months, or every six months or so we're the ones that whine about it,

31:51  
right. And that's, I think that's a valid thing to consider is some of the stuff that we complain about is because we've got a very, very quickly familiarize ourselves with controls in a car, and then evaluate whether they're better or worse during that short period than the car we just came out of, which is going to be the first thing we remember. And then other cars that we like that have left an impression.

32:13  
So what is what you're saying is that the customers are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome,

32:19  
I think the customers

32:22  
acclimate Okay, over a period of time, which sounds like Stockholm Syndrome, right. But, um, and I have found that over the last two Valvo loans like having more time with senses,

32:36  
it does, you do get a little bit more used to it, it's still not my favorite. But I think me personally with my aversion to automatic stuff, if I let that go, and let you know, let the car do the thing that the car was designed for. Because Europeans really love automatic stuff, like set it and forget it, they like that I am a control freak, so I don't. But if I let it do that, you know, if I set it at 68 degrees, and just do your thing, it's a lot more enjoyable. And so anyway,

33:14  
just out of curiosity, you know, earlier this week, Valvo released a preview of the new HDMI for the Pollstar to which is going to be their first battery, electric car that's coming out next year. And it's also the first model that's going to have their new infotainment system that is actually built on Android automotive, and they've actually significantly revised the user interface. So you can, you can find, you can find it and download it, you know, on on on a smartphone as as a progressive web app. So it's not a native app, but you can you can kind of play around in there and see what the interface is going to look like, if you had a chance to look at it yet.

33:56  
I haven't No.

33:58  
Okay,

34:00  
well, I'll put a link to it in the show notes. But you know, it's worth taking a look at, you can get an idea of what the UI is going to look like. It's actually quite significantly different from census today. I mean, when they when they first announced it, last year, they they indicated that it was basically going to be the census interface, but with new underpinnings on it, but it's actually changed pretty substantially. And I don't know if this is just going to be this version is just going to be for the pole star models. And maybe the Volvo branded cars will retain the existing census style interface with the three pages where you swipe left to right,

34:37  
because this one is actually you know, rather than swiping left to right, you actually Swipe down from the top and up from the bottom to get different pages. And it's all I'll include the link in the show notes, and maybe between now and next week, Dan, you can have a chance to try it out. And we can talk about it further.

34:57  
Yeah, I'm actually looking at it right now. Just in a in a public I'm popping mechanics in it. It so it looks like it it has evolved some of the some of the controls, it does look like there's

35:11  
a different organization. So yeah, I'll play with it. I'll see what I can see what I can discern. And that's the tricky part for an automaker, I mean, you, you've spent time at automakers. So you know, these things are developed years out, and they have to last for years as well. So that's, that's really tough for them. And

35:33  
while there

35:34  
for fortunately, you know, fortunately, we're getting into an era now, you know, where you can do over the air updates, you know, and they've actually been doing, you know, most automakers are actually doing over the air updates for their their telematics and infotainment systems. Now, for quite some time, they just haven't, unlike Tesla, they haven't been doing it for safety critical systems,

35:53  
or at least for control systems, vehicle control systems have been doing it for, you know, for the infotainment and telematics for frequent a while.

36:01  
So, you know, this is something that actually can evolve, you know, and it's Tesla has shown, you know, you can, you can change the interface pretty dramatically over time with those sorts of updates. So, whatever you build in, you know, at the start is not necessarily what needs to be there, the cars end of life or throughout its life cycle,

36:21  
right, it's kind of dependent on what the hardware will run to, you know, so that's, you've got a lot of choices to make from just the actual hardware that it's running to the actual layout of the interface. And then Okay, so if you're going to do a wholesale update of that system, right, that Yeah, it'll run on every single version of that model ever built. But if it's a very different change, now you've got all those existing users? Are you going to alienate them are you going to wind up with them complaining it you are like

36:50  
well and that's that's one of the issues the Tesla's had you know, as they have made changes in some cases customers have complained quite loudly about those changes Yeah,

37:00  
I'm sure it's not a trivial thing to back rev no

37:04  
they won't let you do that they don't they don't usually don't even give you the option of rejecting you know previewing and then rejecting an update you know once they once you once they push out an update you're basically stuck with it

37:17  
yeah seems like another reason to just stick with an old analog car

37:23  
but the you know the this is the first US built Volvo the S 60 and it's it's fantastic I honestly

37:28  
I you're driving a car that's right yeah, I was just an infotainment system.

37:32  
I was shocked by how good this car is not because Volvo's aren't good and nice but it's the first one dynamically

37:42  
that over the last I don't know three or four years they've all been pretty decent but this is the first one that really brings it all together and it's just it has sort of silky moves about it it just dynamically transitions transitions very nicely like when you're when you're doing s curves or something it has you know a nice sort of subtle ride to it it handles well it's just as a tea sex so it's it's powerful enough I'm you know could always use a little bit more power and there's going to be a TA version that will give you that but you know this just very good car I just I'm very impressed with I love the way it looks I especially love the interior style I think they've they've hit on a an identity I just I hope it's not too late

38:30  
but they've they've made on an identity both inside and out that updates Valvo past the last time they really updated their look back in you know the the late 90s, early 2000s when when what I think was Peter Horbury right when when they did that the first sad and and then all the P two cars and everything everything had that sort of round shouldered Valvo family identity and then in between you know it evolved a bit and now they they've done a change where everything It started with that new xc 90 and and now it that's sort of proliferated across the lineup and, and I think everything looks really good and you're just I'm just impressed with the car. I think it's a little bit longer than the oldest 60, even the long wheelbase version. So it's, it's roomy, it's I think it's about three series size, maybe a little smaller. To me, that's a great size or sexist, again, like the,

39:26  
this is evolved with, that could bring me back to Volvo as a past Valvo owner, so

39:33  
I can't think of a better endorsement than that, you know, just I can't swing $55,000 for for what this one costs. But that's not outrageous. Give it a couple years, you know, get get a used one. Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, hopefully their, their resale value doesn't drop like a stone like it used to,

39:51  
when, by the time I get to what my 60s they were, like, you know, a car's not worth anything. But yeah, it's, it's a good it's very competitive. Unfortunately, cars are not selling which is too bad because it's a great today. And I like the trunk. sighs I took it to the mountain skiing with my my 10 year old

40:12  
which is not something I did for the challenger. You know,

40:17  
it's did this heated steering wheel gets nice and hot. You know, it's, it's,

40:22  
I do, like, heated steering wheels this time of year.

40:25  
Yeah, and honestly, just all the things that I liked about Volvo classically have been smartly updated. It doesn't even have the scoliosis thing that some of the head restraints do. And other models, it's, it is probably my favorite Volvo and I, you know, I'm impressed with the bill call, I think their new plants putting out good stuff

40:47  
that Sounds Sounds like a good start for for the plant in South Carolina. Hopefully, you know, hopefully, their plans there, don't get too upset by, you know, all the stuff that's going on with the, with the trade issues between the US and various other countries now, because, you know, part of the rationale for building that plant was, you know, to actually export a lot of the production from there, because I think the us that the South Carolina plant was, was supposed to be one of the primary production sites for the 60 and without, you know, if they, if it costs them more money to export those or, you know, or even for importing some of the parts, you know, it could hit their bottom line and, you know, make that plant non viable in the for the foreseeable future.

41:37  
Yeah, so, in that plan, I haven't really looked at what is actually there's just an assembly plant, or is it Are they stamping and is it sort of, like, raw materials go in one side and cars go at the other the,

41:50  
I believe they have a body shop, you know, they're doing stamping and welding, painting all that, you know, I don't think they're producing engine so they're bringing in engines, you know, powerful from from overseas from Sweden and perhaps from China as well, because Volvo also has production China, but you know, I think the, the body shop, paint shop, you know, all that stuff is being done locally.

42:15  
Yeah. So, I So, I guess what's really going to be the determiner is what? The raw materials cost, right? for, for getting, you know, sheet steel or sheet

42:26  
number, whatever in there. Yeah, well, I mean, 25% tariff on the steel now, 10% on aluminum, you know, so that, you know, that the thing is that's causing grief for everybody in the industry right now.

42:40  
Yeah, I hope they work it out. It's very good car. And, and hopefully to if they need to shift for the workforce down there. Because it's an SPI platform vehicle, they can shift another SPI car in there that makes better profit near more revenue. So the plant isn't in the red, you know, it continues. Yeah, I would, I would guess, you know, that they will probably add production of the XC 60 there, because that's, that's probably going to be their highest volume model in North America going forward for the next several years is the FC 60, you know, and maybe we'll even get the V 60 here. Who knows, I would love that God would have me looking for loans.

43:23  
I can't give her more full throated endorsement, I really, you know, it's it's certainly if I were to drive it back to back with a three series or an A for something, there would be differences,

43:35  
notable differences between the three cars, but that's not terrible, you know, that they're each sort of have an identity. And I just, I like the way this one has come together.

43:48  
That's good to hear. I like the progress of all those been making over the last several years. One question about it, the the shifter, does it have the same shifters? The xc 40,

43:58  
okay. No, it does. But that's actually something that Russell and I talked about as well. And I'm my suspicion last week was that it that double tap thing, yes, sort of brought to the XC 40 from the UK. I think it came initially from the xfinity hybrid. Yeah, so this actually, I believe, has a mechanical shift for an S 60. So as a button in front, you pull it so just normal shift quadrant,

44:28  
the XC 40 has an electronic shifter so they lifted that and the electronic shift logic in the Volvo does require the double tap and he said, yeah, it you know, takes a couple days to get used to it, which I found But then I also found myself and double tapping the shifter in in the challenger after I got out of the and their their logic behind it is Look, if that gets bumped You know, there's it's not a physical you know, it's not a mechanical connection. So if it gets bumped, the safest thing for it to do good, a neutral and then you can correct your mistake and put it back in gear or select the other gear that you want. And yes, going from car to car it becomes a little bit of a learning curve. But after a little bit of time, it it's a sort of, you know, second nature and I can't I can't really argue with that because that's what happened to me. Although over the first couple days it does get slightly annoying.

45:26  
Yeah. And you know, as you said, you know, we're we're in kind of a unique position because we keep jumping from one car to another you know all with different interfaces and you know we never really get a chance to get a custom to any of them

45:38  
yeah, I will let you know case he's gonna listen to this. Maybe he doesn't listen, I don't know what he's gonna hear me not crap all over census and he was what the endless grief that I gave him. So I'm sorry.

45:57  
Okay, let's move on. Alright. So that the it's been it's been about a week since the the Detroit Auto Show press previews of which there wasn't actually a whole lot to preview this year. Because, like a lot of auto shows, you know, there were a bunch of automakers that decided that they didn't really need to be here, there. You know, increasingly manufacturers are deciding that, you know, they're better off doing their own standalone vehicle reveal events away from shows

46:35  
and even here in Detroit. You know, we had a couple that were kind of like that, you know, because then they can get all of the press attention to themselves and they're not scrambling you know, for 20 minutes of attention during the course of a of a busy Media Day and an auto show. So, you know, we didn't have any of the European premium brands here this year, unfortunately. So, no, Volvo know, mercedes benz, BMW, Audi know Jaguar Land Rover know Porsche, you know, the, the only premium brand here was actually Volkswagen

47:10  
said that that's a mistake for them, or do you think that for those European brands, we go

47:15  
to

47:16  
Frankfurt or Geneva or wherever the European shows happen, like they get coverage so

47:22  
well, even even at those shows. I mean, in 2018, you know, at the Paris in Geneva shows last year, there were a bunch of European OEM that didn't attend those shows either, you know, like Volvo. Volvo did not go to Paris, I think it and they didn't do Geneva either, you know, Volkswagen, I think, I think skipped the parish show this year or last year, you know, there's, there's a bunch of automakers that are, you know, so this is this is this is actually a problem that's kind of endemic to trade shows, in general, even, even at CES, there were fewer companies involved this year than there had been in the past or less of a presence. And there have been in the past, you know, and, you know, in other other industries, you know, trade shows have been struggling because of the high cost of, you know, paying for a booth and constructing booth, especially at auto shows, you know, the manufacturers have been looking for how they can cut down on their their construction costs for the booth, you know, hopefully next year, when the Detroit Auto Show moves from January to June, that will be alleviated somewhat, because they won't be paying huge overtime fees to the crews putting together the booth during the Christmas holidays.

48:36  
And so hopefully, some of the manufacturers will come back Will you know, that remains to be seen, none of them have officially committed, they all said that they're, you know, those that skip the show this year, you know, are watching and, you know, they'll they'll make a decision, you know, one way or the other soon, but, but nothing yet.

48:56  
Yeah, I was listening to auto line. And they were saying it felt

49:01  
Joanne Muller and Todd Lhasa and Frank Marcus on maybe

49:08  
it they said that it felt a little sad this year, kind of, yeah, dark man, maybe not dark, like 2008, but just like, empty.

49:18  
Yeah, it was more empty. You know, it was some of those we were talking about it, you know, in some, it felt in some ways, it felt quiet, like the 2009 show Did you know, right after the financial meltdown, but at least you know, that year in 2009, you know, to cut costs down, they compressed everything into one day. And so everybody showed up, you know, that's just the, you know, the media previews, you know, the first the press conferences started at 630 in the morning with Porsche and then ran until about 630 that night, but everybody was here, you know, the, the feeling was kind of somber that year, because of what was going on around us. But it was, at least everyone showed up this year, you know, half the industry just didn't show up. And so, you know, we started it, I think the first press conference started at 830. And by 230 in the afternoon, we're all done, you know, so, it was, it was quiet, but in a very different kind of way than the 2009 shell. Yeah, and hopefully, that doesn't, you know, I mean, in some way, in a lot of respects, you know, it's similar to what we've seen for quite a few years now, in Chicago. I mean, Chicago show is very much like that, there's relatively little news that comes out of the Chicago shell, you know, and the, the big thing for, you know, for these auto shows, you know, especially in North America is there put on by local dealer organizations, you know, so, the Detroit Auto Dealers Association here, you know, whatever, the Chicago auto dealers, you know, put on their show, same thing in LA and elsewhere. And, you know, they're, they're primarily not intended to be media events, I mean, they are media events, but they're, they've always, you know, they've always existed primarily as a means for local auto dealers, to get customers to give customers a place to come in and cross shop and look at everything that's in the marketplace, you know, and to generate leads, and then, you know, after the show the sales people, you know, reach out and contact, you know, the people that were interested in the cars and, you know, hopefully make some sales, you know,

51:18  
and part of the problem, you know, in Detroit is, you know, for, especially for the European premium brands is Detroit, it's just not a huge, you know, Detroit region is not a huge sales market for brands like Audi and Mercedes Benz, and BMW, and they sell cars here, but, you know, not enormous numbers of them, compared to, you know, say, New York or Los Angeles or Miami. And so, you know, they, the manufacturers just felt that it wasn't worth their investment this year to, you know, to set up a huge booths and, and do all that work, you know, so after the press previews are done, you know, in some of the floor space, you know, some of the local dealers do bring in, you know, their own cars from their inventory, you know, and put those on display, but you don't have the big fancy stands that we've traditionally had at this Auto Show.

52:11  
Yeah, when you kind of can't argue with that I was something I was going to say, as well as, you know, who are the shows for and while they have been used, you know, for media days, to

52:22  
have some kind of press release Bonanza, and make some news that has increasingly shifted where there's, like, endless leaks and stuff just being put out online, or, like you said, where they will hold a, an event on their own standalone events. I mean, you know, for several years now, BMW is actually been doing a lot of their reveals, you know, a month or two ahead of a major Auto Show, and Mercedes is start doing it. And other companies, you know, they'll do it at standalone events where they'll, you know, they'll show you know, they'll, they'll reveal all the information about the new product, and then, you know, they'll bring it to the Auto Show, and it'd be the first time the public gets to see it in person. But, you know, the, all of the, you know, most of the information will already be out there by the time they get to an auto show.

53:09  
Yeah, so, it's a limited use for making any kind of press coverage happen and, you know, some of the shows are

53:20  
the shows are for the customers in that region. And and you've gotten these shows like Detroit, like Chicago, like la New York, you know, they've kind of grown to these outsize events and now I think we're just seeing that that's not where the automakers feel like their money is best spent and so they're they're shrinking again and they're shrinking globally to like talk about

53:41  
you know we'll see more of those those standalone events or just stuff that just like yeah here it is we're just gonna

53:48  
even here in Detroit you know on the Wednesday before the the auto show press previews you know for did an event at Ford field to show off the Explorer Yeah, and I mean that one was privately out they invited media to it but that one was, you know, as much an event for for their employees as anybody else. You know, I mean, most of the people in attendance there were four employees

54:15  
you know, and they had you know, the media was it wasn't at CES you know, did attend that but you know, we had actually already seen it in a background or you know the week before so we already had all the information so a lot of media didn't even bother going to that one but you know then on on the Sunday night before the show Cadillac did their event where they showed off the the new st six, you know, at, you know, one of the local theaters in Detroit and, you know, that's, that's the kind of thing we've increasingly been seeing in recent years is, you know, do something before the show so you get, you know, 100% of the new cycle to yourself before the show even opens.

54:52  
Yeah, well, you know what, let's talk about some of the stuff that was actually at the show you mentioned the x86 that showed up

54:59  
I the indeed it did

55:01  
the

55:04  
reaction I surmise was actually less than positive people kind of shrugged about it

55:12  
yeah you know Cadillac is kind of late to the segment there the last of the major premium brands to introduce a three row crossover you know you've got you know vehicles like the the Audi Q seven and Mercedes GL ES and

55:29  
you know BMW got you know three role versions of the x five and and they've you know that now they've got the new x seven of all the UFC 90 You know, they're they're all they've all been out there for a while now. And, you know,

55:43  
Lincoln and and Cadillac are kind of the last two Lincoln show The Aviator DE LA Auto Show and The x86 debuted here in Detroit and pretty much everybody was kind of underwhelmed by it you know, I mean the design is fine you know it's an offensive but you know not particularly exciting either especially compared to the aviator

56:07  
you know, it's based on the lambda platform which is also used for the Buick Enclave and the Chevy Traverse and the GMC Acadia

56:18  
you know the interior and did not seem to be you know particularly premium i mean you know, it's did not seem to be up to snuff The only power train available right now is the, the 3.6 liter V six with a nine speed automatic and their fraud or all wheel drive, you know, it does have Jim's twin clutch, all wheel drive system, you know, the can vector the torch to the front and rear, you know, and that that system works well. But, you know, they talked about, you know, this being an important vehicle for, for Cadillac, both here in North America, but also in China. And, you know, in China increasingly, you know, you've got to have some electrification options, you know, you got to have a plug in hybrid or a battery electric version, you know, to really be competitive in there, especially in these kind of segments and GM has nothing It was this one have they developed the lambda at all for that I mean, what we've seen here like is there anything they could even just they take all indications from Steve Carlisle and other people from Cadillac St. Carlisle said the president Cadillac and you know others I talked to that there's no plans you know, for this generation of the x86 to have any electrification options in there at least at least not before mid cycle refresh you know which is several years out the other thing that it's missing is super cruise yeah you know this this vehicle is kind of you know late to the segment and you know, Cadillacs got you know, what is arguably the best partially automated driving system on the on the market was super cruise and they didn't put it in this thing. Well,

57:58  
the whole thing just see, it seems like there's three glaring errors to me with the x86 that you know you just identified super curious is probably the biggest just because they're trying to compete for that premium segment. And those kind of features are really what's what's driving a lot of interest now and just super Christmas very good. The other is the power train like you said, you know, just that 3.6 is like fine, it's a good engine but you can get an Equinox or traverse right and then you you have the interior which in pictures it presents pretty well and I'm sure the top third of the interior is pretty nice to look at and to touch but then all of the other stuff I just see this lots of seems lots of different black plastics

58:50  
probably all feel kind of cheap and crappy in that GM way you know it's the same thing that that gets the trucks to where you're just like this thing cost 70 grand it's got you know plastic you'd see in a frickin Sonic in it

59:05  
and so those seem like three things that just right right away you know a brand new model it's it's starting from behind the eight ball they didn't really do enough they kind of almost like a half assed it and I'm sure there's reasons for it but those are reasons to either delay it or do it in a different way or do like don't don't forge ahead with the vehicle just so you can tick the boxes off your your sort of checklist and say yep we we came to market like that's that's a good plan

59:38  
yeah and you know you said you know since this you know this is not exactly you know first into the segment by any stretch of the imagination if you're going to be late at least make sure that you you know do everything you can to make it make it the best and I think you know GM says you know that the electrical architecture and the lambda platform you know can't support super cruise and you know that's you know that's perfectly legitimate but you know if you're if you're going to take the time to bring this to market you know two and a half years after the Acadia debuted you know or three years I think now actually after the Acadia debuted with the same platform you know why didn't you take that time to make those updates you know and put that system in there make it available you know we're not going to start seeing additional models with super cruise until sometime in 2020

1:00:30  
just like boggles my mind like don't don't bring it to market if you if you can't put super cruise in it

1:00:37  
yeah now I agree especially if you want to compete with the

1:00:42  
in the Chinese market you know you're going to have to have some hybrid or plug in hybrid options and the the you know the the Lincoln aviator you know is going to have you know, 30 mile plug in hybrid range you know 450 horsepower 600 foot pounds of torque you know it's going to be a real performance plug in hybrid and you know this one has nothing I mean you've got you know 300 horsepower naturally aspirated V six as your only option apparently they will be adding a V eight version to this at some point.

1:01:15  
But classic GM don't, ya don't come to market with a piece of crap and then say we're gonna make it better later. No, I mean,

1:01:22  
I think, you know, piece of crap is kind of overstating it, but just kind of half asking it

1:01:28  
to the aviator, the aviators, a brand new platform, it has a pretty exclusive version of at least a high performance engine, right,

1:01:38  
it looks fan tactic, it's, it's larger, a little bit bigger, you know,

1:01:44  
only marginally so not not by much, it's pretty close to the same size.

1:01:48  
It has that rear wheel drive

1:01:52  
proportion, and dynamics. So I think it's going to drive very well. And it's, you know,

1:02:01  
it's interior is, you know, Lincoln interiors. Now, at least when you buy a higher trimmer, like, they look like they're worth the money, like The Aviator was a very important vehicle for Ford. And they they put the effort in and it shows the x86 is arguably a very important vehicle for for Cadillac. And I'm sure they put some effort into it. I don't want to criticize the people who worked on it, it just seems like it got off track like they did

1:02:31  
I have a feeling that you know, over the last several years, you know, what the whole move to New York and then move back to Detroit. You know, a lot of a lot of things got off track with Cadillac because, you know, the other part of all this is on the Friday before the show, you know, or Thursday before the show, you know, they announced

1:02:51  
that you know, GM had an analyst briefing financial analyst briefing and they said that, you know, Cadillac is going to be their lead brand going forward electric vehicles and their first model you know, coming to market you know, as a new electric crossover battery electric crossover will be coming after their current three year product cycle is done you know that starting with the XP for last fall and now the x86 they're launching a new vehicle every six months for three years and after that's done which means that you know 2021 and they showed a preview of what this thing's gonna look like us you know drawings of what this thing is going to look like as looks good but you know we're not going to see it till 2021

1:03:32  
at least x86 looks good too but it's also it's a three row version it's not that much bigger than the 65 you know like it's longer but what's the rear seat access like in this like why why is it I I have so many questions and some like why does it not have that that put the hell is this is this a turbo V right that's an SDS

1:04:02  
know it's in the the CT six how CTC

1:04:05  
Why would I think you could get the x tsp sport maybe thinking that the CT six be sport yeah which doesn't exist in your

1:04:13  
front wheel drive transfers configuration so

1:04:16  
yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to put that twin turbo the into into the

1:04:22  
V sport engine in there though right maybe I don't know

1:04:26  
no I mean no it's it's it's that's too much power is going to be too big to put into the lambda platform that's just that's not going to fit in there that's just a shame yeah so you could you could do the twin turbo V six that's that's yeah oh yeah yeah but not not the not the VA that's going to the CT six be

1:04:44  
right i'm sorry i the so I wish it had that because that's certainly Cadillac distinctive but you've got the x CSV sport that has the turbo 3.6

1:04:56  
yeah I'm lambda is not the same as a epsilon which i think that's that's based on a but um. You know they're both front wheel drive you make it work that's the be ambitious This doesn't seem like an ambitious product to me when no it doesn't you know they they did not it doesn't seem like they tried to stretch at all you know to make this something really special you know it's kind of yeah okay let's you know let's get a three real crossover out there you know and they did kind of the bare minimum to do that yeah yeah that's that's unfortunate you know for for Cadillac weeks you know Cadillac has so much potential and they've done it done some great stuff over the last decade you know and this this is not one of them

1:05:39  
yeah and

1:05:40  
I you know, I mean I'm sure the livery is going to love it because it's cheaper to going to be cheaper to run I think then escalate

1:05:48  
but it's not gonna be cheap and there's a lot of competition for your dollar at this at this level and so I don't know I feel like it's a mess and that's that's too bad especially since there's a lot of anticipation for it.

1:06:02  
Yeah, speaking of The Aviator, you know, the its platform made mentioned, you know, that for revealed the Explorer, you know, the weekend or the week before the Auto Show, they didn't reveal a whole lot of details at that time. But at the Auto Show, we did see more information on the hybrid and the st, which are joining the lineup this year, the S T, you know, as with the edge st, you know, it's performance version of it, it's got the same three that are twin turbo V six, that's in the that's in the aviator, as the, as the standard engine, The Aviator, so 400 horsepower in there, which will be nice. And then the hybrid, unlike the aviator, which gets a plug in hybrid day Explorer is getting just a hybrid variant or standard hybrid variant for now, at least, at some point, it may get a plug in, or maybe even a battery electric version. But for now, it's just a standard hybrid. And they're using a naturally aspirated 3.3 liter V six paired up with the the hybrid, and I think it's about 318 horsepower

1:07:11  
and 350 or 360 foot pounds of torque, you know, so it should do it should do pretty well, you know, they

1:07:20  
production you know, production vehicles will start in May, it goes on sale the summer, they haven't released anything about the fuel economy yet, or the performance of the site, but it will have

1:07:37  
they said the police, the Police Interceptor hybrid version of this will have at least 24 miles per gallon combined. And I'm guessing that, you know, in the civilian version, it's probably going to be somewhere around 26, which, you know, for an explorer is pretty good.

1:07:52  
Yeah, especially for this version of it. And with that kind of power, you know, like,

1:07:57  
yeah, yeah, from a design perspective, you know, the, it's not, it's not a radical change, you know, it's clearly, you know, incremental design change, but in mechanically it's all new, it's on a completely new platform. So, it gets ditches the old Volvo p to platform, you know, it's still you're still going to immediately recognize it as an explorer, but, you know, it's, it's been updated, you know, instead of the, the horizontal lines, you know, being parallel to the ground, it's got a little bit more of an upward sweep towards the back, you know, it looks a little bit sleeker than before a little bit faster, you know, and the proportions are better now because it's got the longitudinal power train you know, and rear drive chassis so you know, I think I think it's a good looking vehicle and again, you know, even Ford though you know, they were you know, they put they're putting their copilot 360 system as standard on the Explorer, which means you get things like blind spot information, and link keeping and Forward Collision Alert and automatic emergency braking a standard but that's, that's a camera based system.

1:09:09  
If you want adaptive cruise control, and the lane centering you've got to pay extra for that, you know, to get to add the radar sensor and, you know, get that upgrade. And, you know, increasingly in that same segment, you know, with vehicles, like the new Hyundai Sonata, Hyundai, Santa Fe, that I've actually gotten the driveway right now, you know, things like that are becoming standard equipment, you know, and, you know, I think for is going to have to, you know, kind of rethink some of their packaging there as well. It just like Cadillac is with making some more of that stuff. standard equipment.

1:09:43  
Yeah, I was gonna say that it's a little bit more acceptable to me that you have to buy an extra on a Ford versus a Cadillac that you know, the Cadillacs can be $70,000 should have it, but if the foreign competitors, like the Santa Fe, figuring out how to package it, so that it's standard equipment. That's, that's something that, like, that's a sales point, you know, and so that's something that they're gonna have to figure out. And I think part of the differences like, you know, okay, fine, you can get rid of our crews, we have a 400 horsepower, three, six, you know, like,

1:10:17  
That's true, that's, that's something the Santa Fe does not offer. You know, you don't, you don't have a twin turbo be six available under, and

1:10:24  
it depends on on what's important to you, you know, I yeah, I think that the Explorer is, it's just really well done, you know, I'm very impressed with it. And I know that this is the sort of unibody rear wheel drive platform, that's, this is going to be our next Mustang, right? Like this, Ford has put a lot of chips and to the, you know, push push them out to the table with this platform, it's the aviators to explore, it's going to be certain, we'll see, we'll see more stuff off this platform as well going forward. And that's the only way to do it going forward word for for automakers these days, is to just maximize the amount of models and that sort of differentiation you can add if each platform is they're so expensive to design and build and in a forest to the point to like, yeah, you know, we're going to partner with looks like it's like, yeah,

1:11:17  
yeah, I mean, for for, it's going to have a busy year this year, you know, they've got a bunch of new products coming this year. You know, in addition to the Explorer, we're going to see a new escape before the end of the year, we're probably going to see the bronco at least revealed before the end of this year. It won't go on sale till next year, but it will probably see it revealed this year, you know, the,

1:11:38  
the Explorer and The Aviator and there's one or two other new utilities that will probably see some time this year. So, you know, there's, there's gonna be a lot of stuff coming, we may even see actually, we probably won't see the new f1 50 till

1:11:57  
till beginning of next year alone. The auto show is not going to be till June next year. We may may see it sooner than that. So who knows. But, you know, that's that's going to be, you know, significant update to the F 150 as well. So there's a lot of stuff coming from Ford and also their new battery electric crossover is going to be showing some time to share as well.

1:12:18  
Right, right. And what's crazy to me is that the F 150 is now old. Yes, just redone but everybody else's read on their trucks. In the in the interim

1:12:29  
I have Did you have a chance to get inside the Explorer at all during the because yeah, one of the things to me that I was really disappointed by was the old explorer was it was just so claustrophobic and it felt like you were sitting in a bucket, especially on the the passenger side, it seems like what this platform is designed to be this big, because the impression I got was like, they stretched out that P to platform as much as they possibly could. And they were a lot of compromises made to get the largest,

1:13:01  
I'm assuming this feels more spacious, more space efficient. It's definitely more space efficient. The pillars are thinner, you know, they've taken advantage of, you know, new materials, new manufacturing processes, you know, with more high strength steel, and they're more aluminum. So things like the pillars are significantly slimmer now, so you have much better visibility out of it. It's actually almost exactly the same size. It's within an inch overall length, and the same width and same height. So it's, it's virtually the same size as the existing Explorer. Interesting, but it looks it feels roomier inside. It looks

1:13:37  
like they've pushed the front axle forward. Yes, they can do that. And yeah, the wheelbase is several inches longer, but the overall length is the same. That's, that's impressive. The proportions it's just like small tweaks. It's like a design school study. Like

1:13:51  
Yeah, well, you know, that's a funny thing. You know, they'll get into it more next week. The next time when we talked about the the Honda passport. But, you know, the past sport is based on the same platform as the pilot. And you know, it's got the same wheelbase as the pilot, but it's the body is six inches shorter overall. And it's amazing what a difference that six inches makes its visual proportions

1:14:15  
the way I'm sure this person that's even more impressive pictures is definitely the passport looks tight here.

1:14:20  
Yeah.

1:14:22  
All right.

1:14:23  
All right. What else we have? Oh, the Supra we finally saw the super without camera

1:14:31  
camera for months.

1:14:33  
Well, yeah. Akio Toyoda you know on stage during the presentation you talked about you know he joked about this being you know one of the the longest running introductions of a new car ever

1:14:46  
you know they they did some preview drives with some of the media last summer you know, they've shown this thing as a race car that you know, as a GT racecar they've shown it as as a NASCAR stock

1:15:01  
Hello that that thing really has nothing to do with what is the Supra

1:15:07  
but you know, I I think, you know, in person you know, there's some there's some elements of the Supra that you know, I think maybe a tad over done, you know, you get the fake Vance on the fender, you know, arguably the front end you know, is maybe a little bit over styled as as is the case with many charge generation Toyota's but overall you know, I really like the size and the proportions of this thing you know it's based it's built on the same platform as the BMW Z for users BMW twin turbo six three liter inline six you know its rear wheel drive automatic transmission only unfortunately, you know, you look inside you clearly see a lot of the you know, the BMW parts in there, including I drive it's

1:15:52  
not terrible I know enough

1:15:57  
I said the same thing to some of the folks from Toyota you know I said you know now now that you've got I drive in the super you really need to put it into the rest of your life

1:16:04  
up to what's your opinion of the super being so sort of obviously a BMW there's been lots of chatter about it and I feel like it's been dismissed and and to me like a it's not a bad thing that it's the C four

1:16:20  
yeah nothing nothing wrong with that i mean you know you've got a you know, a rear front engine rear wheel drive two seater

1:16:30  
sports car, you know, that's exactly what it should be. And I have no I have no issue with you know, using parts from Toyota you know, to make it to use use parts from BMW so that you know both of these brands can bring out you know, new vehicles like this you know to bring up you know, because and if if both BMW and Toyota had to you do everything from scratch on their own for these two vehicles these two vehicles probably would not agree in 2019 yeah they they probably could not justify the engineering expense to do them if they had to develop everything on their own for both of these vehicles because you know for Toyota you know there's there's no in line there's no more in line sixes in their lineup that they could use for this you know and you know that that's kind of the you know the you know the classic ideal for the Super you know they always had an inline six cylinder engine and you know certain sure you could do it with a V six

1:17:31  
six is very good I'm actually thinking oh yeah love to see what this car would do it just

1:17:34  
right and you know it's not it's not like you know Twitter's be six doesn't get used in sports cars I mean they've been powering you know the Lotus Evora for for many years now so you know they could certainly put a you know and you know in the you look at you know cars like the Lexus RC and you know others it's it's a great engine but you know for a super they wanted to have an inline six you know because that's what supers have always had so you know to collaborate with BMW on this I think was great you know they're you know aside from you know some of the obvious sharing like I drive you know they they do look distinct from each other who knows you know you're not going to mistake is super first before coupe you know it's it's something quite different

1:18:20  
the other point though right like the especially the coop like that's not going to sell as many as the convertible I would assume so the Z for probably not necessarily I would assume that see for coops sell a lot fewer than convertible

1:18:35  
oh well there is no need for this to last

1:18:37  
generation though like the last time there wasn't

1:18:41  
yeah that that was actually the first Gen Z for the last the last generation z for had a retractable hard top so they didn't do a cool you know that it had the retractable hard top instead you know so this time there's just a soft top version right no no poop version and also both for and the Supra are actually assembled in Austria by Magnus dire, right. So that they're both built on the same assembly line, you know, and they contracted out to Magna

1:19:12  
that seems like they both got together and, like executives, like, let's, let's do a car. Okay.

1:19:19  
Yeah, we, you know, we both want to do you know, new sports cars, you know, what can we do, you know, that, you know, that we can justify the expense, you know, so, we can keep the engineering costs to a minimum, you know, but still do something unique. And it seems like

1:19:36  
the engineering So, there's a lot of three series in the Z four. So, that, to me, it's just very interesting. It's just, this is basically like a corporate deal. Like, let's take the pieces we've got change them up a little bit and release them as a as a new product. You know, it's almost like when you when you look at the lineup of like, washers and dryers, right, like the same basic design starts off like at the cheap model and just gets fancier and fancier. As you go up the line. To me, it looks like a super and I'm sure drives fantastic. So

1:20:06  
yeah, I mean, from from all we've heard from some of the, the previews, you know, from people like Tim Stevens and others, you know, it was great on the track and integrate on the road. So, we'll, we'll see in the next few months, you know, it's going to be going on sale Pretty soon, I think. I

1:20:21  
think in March here in the US February or late February, early March, it'll be available

1:20:26  
everybody can complain about more to our coops

1:20:30  
or not, but not me,

1:20:31  
right. Like, yeah, that does not seem like a bad thing that they they put their heads together and they decided to make these cars and I'm and I'm sure that distinctive enough to know Yeah, you know, fine, fine.

1:20:49  
All right. Last one from the auto show is the Shelby GT 500 this would be the first time since the 1960s that there's been two Shelby Mustangs and production at the same time because the GT 350 will carry on for at least another year or two and the GT 500 is the most powerful street legal Mustang ever built at least by you know from the factory by Ford

1:21:16  
you know they they started with the 5.2 liter block from the GT 350 beefed up significantly added a big honkin supercharger that will give it somewhere well and excessive 700 horsepower we don't know exactly how much yet

1:21:33  
and then beefed up everything else to to compensate you know it's got a big SMC hood with a massive air vent in the hood to get all the air vent all the hot air out huge air openings in the front you know the GT 500 is one of those rare instances where there's a massive grill that is actually fully functional you know there's there's almost nothing of it blah off you know in order to get enough cooling air through the engine compartment to manage all the thermal energy that's generated

1:22:08  
there think subtlety is really this cars thing anyway so

1:22:11  
no no not not at all but you know what what's really different this time you know I remember

1:22:18  
last time you know back when I was still working with Ford comms team and we were talking about the the GT 350 you know someone who shall remain unnamed but he knows who he is you know refer to you know the the GT 500 customer you know as the the classic you know quarter mile knuckle draggers

1:22:44  
which you know i think is somewhat unfair

1:22:47  
so nothing here from Ford that's not a thing you say

1:22:51  
yeah that's why he shall remain unnamed you know but but i mean you know the the last Gt 500 you know was you know not especially sophisticated you know what it what it wasn't a competitor you know for high end European sports cars which is what the GT 350 was trying to be more of you know so the the GT 500 you know really was great you know at doing quarter miles you know, it was fairly heavy which you know, especially in the nose which meant that you know, wasn't it didn't handle as well as some other cars but this time around, they really wanted to make this an all around track beast and so you know, it's got big honkin breaks it's got the Magna ride dampers all the way around. It's got

1:23:39  
they have the an optional carbon fiber Track Pack, which gives you you know, you will all of them have a big front splitter, but the the carbon fiber Track Pack gives you that large rear wing which is adjustable and also some spots that you can install and the front of behind or in front of the the front wheels with dive planes on them. And they're adjustable so you can go out you know, when you go to track day, you can put those on there and you can adjust them to change the amount of downforce You can also adjust the angle of the rear wing so you can adjust the balance front to rear the six got five inch exhaust pipes. Four or five inch exhaust pipes. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it's just it's bonkers.

1:24:26  
But you know, it should be it should be really really really fast.

1:24:33  
Yeah, but but you can't shift it yourself.

1:24:38  
That's true. Well you can you just don't have a third pedal to you.

1:24:45  
Those are not those are not actually manual transmissions to me

1:24:48  
right yeah, it's got the it's got a new seven speed dual clutch gearbox which is not the same one is what's in the Ford GT this is this is an all new gearbox that they designed with traffic you know, to withstand the torque of this engine which is going to be impressive

1:25:07  
yeah and honestly

1:25:11  
I don't think that it's a bad thing that it has that one transmission

1:25:17  
it just that's that's a whole lot of power like I think it's not going to put up the numbers without that transmission either if it had a conventional manual it's acceleration time to be slower and so those bragging rights I think in this kind of realm

1:25:33  
yeah it's supposed to do zero to 60 in about three and a half seconds and quarter miles and less than 11

1:25:39  
to 60 in first gear

1:25:43  
I'm not sure that didn't say

1:25:46  
I'd be interested to see i would i would guess it probably was I think that's part of the reason why we've seen zero to 60 times get so much lower

1:25:55  
over the last year well yeah and you know in this case you know the top three gears are all overdrive gears so first through fourth Are you know are under Dr so I wouldn't be surprised if it'll hit 60 and in first gear so without a shift right and you know with all the torque this thing's going to have you know that that should be no problem one of the most interesting things about this thing about the GT $500 was talking with Carl admin is the chief engineer on Mustang is he showed me the strat tower brace that they designed for this thing yeah and you know because they wanted to keep the headline low on it they couldn't do the usual thing of you know running the strut our brace right over the top of the engine yeah and you because you've got that big supercharger on the tie So what they did was they actually designed a cast magnesium struck tower brace that wraps around behind the the top of the engine you know, ties to the firewall and the struck struck towers and this is pretty intricate casting and it's really really lightweight you know, you can pick it up with just a couple of fingers I was shocked at like this thing Oh yeah, I bet it's beautiful

1:27:01  
to

1:27:02  
Oh yeah, it's gorgeous. And you know unfortunately none of the photos that they have you know the and actually show this thing I'm gonna have to see if I can get a photo from them of this struck tower brace because it's, it's a really impressive little piece of engineering

1:27:18  
for those kind of things are like, that's, that's the benefit of having a actual automaker make what's essentially a supercar sticking to that stuff. It's not a big deal, you know, I mean, there's some cost to it, but they have the engineering know how, and, and manufacturing

1:27:37  
large asked to be able to, like, yeah, we could do that casting, like, it'll cost x will make, you know, make it out of this material. That's not a problem for Ford.

1:27:47  
Yeah. And, you know, for, for a low volume model like this, you know, I mean, they probably won't do more than, you know, a couple of thousand of these a year, if that even that many it, you know, you can go out to, you know, any number of specialist shops, you know, that will cast those parts for you, you know, you, you do the engineering, you know, that, you know, they'll do all the design work and, you know, test it and, and, you know, do all the the FM the finite element analysis on this thing, and, you know, have it perfectly engineered and they'll go out to, you know, some specialist shop and have it cast machine and, you know, brand back to the plant and assemble it and, you know, it's something that would be a lot harder for, you know, for, you know, for a startup or, you know, for some really low volume manufacturer to do. Yeah,

1:28:37  
yeah, there's other things in this cartoon, carbon fiber wheels, the same thing.

1:28:41  
Yeah, well, the GTA 350 was the first production model with available carbon fiber wheels on the and those were 19 for this one, because the front brakes are now

1:28:55  
16 and a half inch rotors,

1:28:58  
just ridiculously massive rotors. But, you know, there's a lot of lot of thermal mass there, you know, they, they went back to their partner in Australia that they develop the carbon technologies, I think, is the company that that built the wheels for the 350 and also for the GT you know, to design a new 20 inch carbon fiber wheel for the carbon fiber Track Pack version. And it's even stronger than before and lighter weight than the 19 inch wheel that's amazing. I like that's the problem when you get wheels that big to is there just heavy right and that's one of the reasons for going to a carbon wheel on something like this because you know, 20 inch you know, 19 2021 inch wheels can get ridiculously heavy which you know, has a negative impact on your handling and also on your ride quality

1:29:48  
so this will be a fun car to get in immediately

1:29:51  
Yeah, I'm sure you guys will have one in January was era tires on

1:29:55  
it, I'll try it,

1:29:58  
you'll go you'll go by a set of snow tires to put on it just so you can drive. You know,

1:30:02  
I really do. I like the challenge of high horsepower cars in winter conditions. The

1:30:09  
there is a level of prudence that's required though, and that usually means you do need to be able to go stop and turn

1:30:18  
the thing is you know, with a car like that even even with proper winter tires. You know, the, the as I found as I found last year when I had the alpha Julia Quadro folio, right after a big snowstorm is the ground classic say. So even even with even with good winter tires on there. If you've got to plow through the snow with that thing. You're still not going on

1:30:40  
the air with all the little dive plans and stuff looks like it would make a dandy little plow for the driveway apron, you know. Yeah, I doubt that. It's not a car for going on on cloud roads? I don't know.

1:30:53  
Definitely not.

1:30:55  
So, yeah, it's for all my carping about the the transition. I'm sure it's going to be just a blast to drive and the people who buy them and probably not going to miss shifting for themselves and

1:31:08  
probably probably not think about launching a car with that much power and instant toward and you know, if you wanna if you want to shift for yourself, you can still get the GT 350

1:31:16  
Yeah. Which is no slouch that that cars good time,

1:31:23  
all right, kind of, you know, flip flipping things around from the the GT 500, as we've been recording, we did get a question on Twitter from a marriage. Careful. He asks, What's what is the lowest power car you'd buy as a fun drive having at least two seats? Oh, I mean, come on. Miata is always the answer.

1:31:48  
Yeah, actually, 86, you know, I mean, that's not that's not exactly a low power car. I mean, that's, you know, it's 200 horsepower. In the in the 26 slash Subaru be or Z, you know, but the the Miata is even less than that, you know, I think the base me out is about now about 155 horsepower. You know, and mine, you know, from, you know, 1990 has 116 horsepower. And that's one of the most fun cars I've ever driven.

1:32:15  
I think on a on a more practical level to the fee at 500

1:32:20  
doesn't have much power at all, but I still enjoy driving them and not necessarily fun in that sporty sense. They're just there. It's a fun car to just bring its neck.

1:32:32  
Yeah, well, actually, you know, you know, what's actually my favorite variant of the 500 is the 500 he, you know, depending on where you live, you know, if you can find us 500, which is the electric version of it

1:32:47  
is actually it's actually a lot more fun to drive than the bar.

1:32:52  
Yeah, it's got so much low end torque that it is just a hoot to drive around. You know, I mean, it's only got about 80 miles of driving range. But, you know, in that 80 miles, you will have a lot of fun.

1:33:04  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can get behind that. I'm trying to think now. Those are three sort of solid choices.

1:33:13  
Yeah. And, you know, the 580, you know, because it's a used EV you can get screaming deals on those things. I mean, you can get them dirt cheap, especially off lease, you can I think you can get 500 for like, seven or eight grand.

1:33:29  
That's a really good deal. Yeah,

1:33:33  
I also write the mini three cylinder many, sorry, yeah.

1:33:37  
Yeah. I mean, they're, they're a little pricey,

1:33:40  
but, you know, actually, you know, if you can find, you know, again, used Mini, you know, like, a, like, a mid 2000s Mini, or even the, with the 56, I think, which was the second generation of the, the modern money, you can probably get a pretty good deal on a used one of those as well.

1:34:00  
Yeah, the art 56 is so that, like, if you get the regular one that's a 1.8 liter, four cylinder, which is fine for me. I really liked the S version of that car. Yeah, it also depends on what your I like, What's your idea of fun,

1:34:16  
we should ask yourself, and I think, I think I think that's why I asked the question, you know, what's the lowest power thing you can have fun with? I think the key is, you know, if the car is small and light enough, you don't need a whole lot of power.

1:34:29  
That's true. But what do you find? Like, what's fun to like?

1:34:33  
Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, you know, it's something that can toss around on, you know, through the curves on a country road. Yeah, yeah. And for that, you know, having a whole lot of power is really not that necessary. You know, it's more about that the handling and the nimbleness and you know, the responsiveness of it, you know, as long as it's got a reasonable amount of torque, you know, to accelerate out of curves, things like that, you know, I, you know, I love an engine with, with way too much torque. But, you know, I can, I can happily get by with something that has a lot less, you know, as long as it can squirt from one turn to the next.

1:35:08  
Yeah, because, and here's where I'm thinking is, I,

1:35:11  
I've never tried one but a Mitsubishi Mirage with a manual. I

1:35:19  
mean, the car generation mirage.

1:35:21  
Yeah.

1:35:23  
Which is, it's, by all accounts, it's not a good car, right? It's a naturally aspirated three cylinder, it's, it's an ultimate economy car, right? It's just just this little thing

1:35:36  
for me, I find it has a certain amount of charm.

1:35:41  
And I think, yeah, and I'm sure that the manual and it is not a good linkage and all that. That's not what it's for. But what I find charming about it is, it is it just will accept the, the abuse, I guess I don't, I don't know, you know, it's got limited grip, it's got limited power. So you can, you can find the

1:36:00  
edges of the end, you can, you can explore its limits, you know, at speeds that won't get you thrown in jail.

1:36:05  
And it's super cheap. And it's not not necessarily a car you would use for

1:36:11  
everything, right? It's not a great highway cursor. It'll do it, which I think is when you look at what that car will do will complain about

1:36:20  
it, but it'll do it. It keeps up with the American sort of car centric lifestyle, highway centric lifestyle. And it was totally not designed for this market. It's, it's, it's not it's not sweet spot for sure. If it I guess, maybe what I would recommend is actually, you know, find a used Honda Fit sport first or second generation Honda. That's a good car. Yeah, you know, I mean, they're, you know, like, the first generation was about 100 and hundred and 608 horsepower. second gen was about 116, you know, so that, you know, anything from about 2007 through about 25th when the new one came out, you know, finally, you can get a probably get a pretty good, really good deal on one of those, you know, with the manual transmission, you definitely want the manual, you know, they're the automatics. Okay. But the manual is definitely the preferred option. If you if you really want to have some fun, it's lightweight, you know, it handles fantastic for for what it is. And, you know, and it's also remarkably practical AND ROOMY, you know, for such as a car with such a small footprint. It's got a huge amount of room on the inside.

1:37:31  
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's a, that's a solid choice. You know, I was also thinking

1:37:37  
I might, my daughter, you know, still drives her fit is now see

1:37:44  
what, 11 years old. Yeah. And she still she got it knew when she turned 16. And, you know, she's still driving, and it's still a great car.

1:37:53  
That's not I mean, that's a that's a pretty good endorsement, the last new driver all the way to

1:38:02  
now, um, the, the, I don't think you can get it anymore either. But I was just thinking, the,

1:38:10  
the Fiesta ST.

1:38:13  
Yeah, really is. I mean, you know,

1:38:15  
I would, you know, you know, given that the question was, you know, what's the lowest power card, you can have fun with them in the Fiesta, S T, you know, you can certainly get them used, you could probably still find some new ones sitting on dealer lots somewhere, if you look around,

1:38:32  
you can certainly get used ones. You know, I mean, that's about 200 horsepower.

1:38:36  
So that's super, like, low powered. But it's also power is not the thing in that car. It's Yeah, and that's, I think, that's what I like, that's what I find fun is a car that you can, you can rotate either, you know, with lift travel oversteer, or, you know, by putting the pedal down, you can get some of that, that rotation, it'll, it'll play along with you. And you've got, you know, low adhesion or just sir, certain amount of grip. And when you get all of those things working together in harmony, that's where the entertainment is. And it's actually very hard on a much higher performance car. Like, try try that on the, the GTA 500 that we were just talking about, you should hit something like, yeah, high speed, you're gonna you're gonna find the limit at the very wrong time.

1:39:19  
Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, as long as it's, you know, light enough, you know, anything between, you know, 100 and 510 horsepower, up to about 100 and hundred and 30 540, you can have a lot of fun with it, you know, if it's light enough and has some decent tires on it. Yeah, and a manual transmission, you're good to go.

1:39:41  
Just like a GT car from the 90s like an escort GT, which is not really a great car,

1:39:48  
it fits all of those criteria.

1:39:52  
Oh, actually, you know, you know, what, if you can find

1:39:58  
the an old

1:40:00  
focused SPT Oh,

1:40:01  
yeah, from the early 2000s, there are about 170 horsepower. You know, the SPT crew, you know, did their work on that one, it was generally considered to be one of the best hot hatches of its era. They made him for about four or five years, I think in the early 2000s. And you could probably find those pretty reasonably priced is why stop

1:40:23  
making that they actually made the I think it was after the mid cycle refresh of the focus there was the ZX for st very particular focus model, but it carried on some of that legacy. So, yeah, yeah, I think you're funny choices. Hey, go.

1:40:39  
Yeah,

1:40:42  
and with that, I think we've done enough all

1:40:42  
else fails just by an old me.

1:40:44  
Yeah, yeah. It just like that's the default rates, and you're not going to be not going to be sad. I don't. I don't necessarily need a lot of horsepower. I want something that has no,

1:40:52  
that's right. Oh, totally, very

1:40:54  
well. We've done a podcast it's number 94. I think we just finished I think, yes. Well, we'll be back for number 95.

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