0:04  
This is wheel bearings I'm Dan Roth

0:07  
and I'm Sam Abuelsamid and tonight we are making a little change little addition to the show were brought on a new member of the team I'd like to introduce my friend Rebecca Lindland Rebecca

0:20  
Hello Sam Hello thank you so much for having me on

0:25  
thank you for for taking the time to to chat with Dan and my end myself you know we we've been wanting to get another voice a different voice with a different perspective on the show you know so it's not just these these two cranky old guys dudes

0:46  
so you know I've known you for more than a decade but i think you know there's I'm sure there are some people that are listening to this that have seen your face on TV and and heard your voice on radio and and other places. But for those that are not familiar with Rebecca Lindland, why don't we start off with a little bit of who is Rebecca Lindland.

1:08  
So I am a lifelong automotive enthusiast. I really don't remember a time I didn't know every car on the road. And I didn't understand how other people didn't know every car on the road.

1:24  
It's a strange thing. I have five older brothers, some of them are more into cars than others. But as the youngest of eight, I don't know, it just kind of wishes always something that I knew every car on the road. And so I I was in and out of the industry on and off through my 20s and finally I'm in my in my early 30s I decided I had to get my act together and and figure out what I'm going to do with my life and I went to work for Allied signal which is now Honeywell and forecasting Bendix breaks and I did that for a few years and then I saw a job for Standard and Poor's and went to work for SMP forecasting the whole car and eventually my division was sold off and it went through several iterations became what is now IHS market. And although I didn't work there, at that point, I left in 2013. And then I went to Saudi Arabia for almost three years to do work on basically the adoption rates of alternative fuel vehicles. So studying people am who buy electric vehicles, and also looking at people who could have bought an electric vehicle but did not serve variety of reasons. So

2:43  
seems like a weird place to be doing that, given the fact that they, they have oil and lots of it.

2:51  
So this is interesting, Dan, and it's a very common question. But the reason that Saudi Arabia and all of the Middle East really is so interested in electric vehicles is because you're absolutely right, all they have is oil, and they actually need to conserve it by some estimates, including Chatham House, if Saudi Arabia continues to use oil at its current rate, they would become a net oil importer by 2030, which is

3:22  
around the corner. I mean, we're ready to just like Bake Off all our shell and give them the oil here, apparently, I

3:28  
mean, really, it's shocking. So for every barrel of oil they use domestically, it's a barrel of oil that they don't sell. Yeah, and so they have to start looking at conservation, they have to start looking at getting more fuel efficient vehicles on the road. They're actually the markets actually quite similar to ours in a while now, it's, it's probably different. But at the time that I lived there, through the end of disrupt the end of it was about half car, half truck, but the trucks were all st bees and traditional truck based SUVs, you know, the, the big giant Suburbans and and navigators and escalates and such I but they have a lot of four cylinder engine vehicles. So there's not as much room for improvement when it comes to fuel economy. On the car side, as we had, you know, we went from eight cylinder to six cylinder to four cylinder. And there's not as much use of crossovers because they do a lot of desert driving, right, and that's a big part of their culture. So they actually need the off roading capabilities that an all wheel drive or reroll drive with four wheel drive will give you so it's a very interesting market to study. For sure. Yeah. And, and, but really, they've got to conserve as the bottom line

4:52  
will. So the other thing they have a lot of not completely derail. So just find it pretty fast. Yes, sorry. They have a lot of desert and a lot of sunshine. So is solar, something that they have invested in

5:03  
solar is somebody something they've invested in. So I was working for King Abdullah petroleum studies and research center, otherwise known as caps arc, and we had one of the largest solar fields in Saudi Arabia, some of our sister properties like King Abdullah University for science and technology also had huge solar fields, the problem is the dust and how to clean them. So one of the fields not ours, but one of another field, they went to clean them with just cleaning things, and they scratch them and they

5:43  
robbed by sand.

5:44  
It is a problem when you are surrounded by say, so.

5:48  
So there's a definite option. It's just that they've got to learn how to manage the environment with which they put those solar panels.

5:58  
Well with,

6:00  
yeah, when when must be good to get the wind coming across the desert, right? Like,

6:05  
I believe it's the lack of consistency in the wind. That's the issue. So you'll get it's almost, you know, you'll get really, really windy days. But then other days, you really won't have much and really, you know, in Riyadh half the year, the climate is very much like San Diego, where it's very, obviously very low humidity, beautiful sunshine in the 70s. I mean, it's gorgeous. And then, of course, the other half of the year, you know, you're lucky if it gets below 90 at 5am. So it's just the it's the extremes and trying to manage those extremes. And the bottom line really, is that they've got to look at better insulating their houses and building smaller houses and driving more efficient cars. And they're not really very good at any of those things. Neither are we. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

7:02  
That's, that's what happens when the oils too cheap.

7:04  
Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, and funny story, a friend of mine had had a Chrysler Town and Country over there. And we went the first time I went shopping, we went to a market and on the way back, he had to get gas. And I said, Oh, hey, you know, Sham Johnson gas money. And he, he burst out laughing. He said, he spent a lot of the time in the States. And he starts laughing because that's a very nice offer. He goes, it's a bout, I think it was $12 to fill up his County.

7:36  
Yeah. So he didn't need the gas money.

7:39  
Well, alright,

7:42  
so once I got back then I went to work for Kelley Blue Book. And I and recently left there at the beginning of January. So now I'm independent.

7:51  
And where are you calling in from? Are you in the part of the frozen tundra are you

7:57  
I am based in Greenwich, Connecticut. I grew up in southern Connecticut. And right now as we speak, it's 11 degrees. It was zero this morning.

8:09  
So quite balmy, compared to here.

8:14  
It was minus 16 when I got up this morning.

8:17  
So I'm here in central Massachusetts, in the Boston area as well. But

8:25  
I can't afford anything close to the city. So I'm in central Massachusetts. And it was like they canceled school for a bunch of the schools around here. And it's like, these people are soft is like zero to like, it's cold. Yes. But like, That's normal. Cold, like it happens. And I stepped up.

8:41  
Yeah, I stepped out of the house of the first time in two days today.

8:45  
Yeah,

8:46  
yeah, no, I can understand like, you guys had had minus, like when it gets minus 10, or like that gets but it's, it's cold. And it's also kind of arid right now. So like, I have a car when I got home, and I didn't have the code on and like,

9:00  
we're actually warmer and more humid, I would have felt colder. So.

9:05  
So there was a great stat that I saw, I believe it was from Nora Naughton in Detroit, one of the gray reporters in Detroit. And she said that General Motors had the highest percentage of

9:25  
remote starts

9:28  
in the last two days. So here it is. So

9:33  
they're

9:34  
using they're using their app.

9:36  
Yes. The top five states for remote start requests over the last two days were from Michigan, Illinois, New York, Ohio and Minnesota. That

9:45  
makes sense, right? You weren't supposed to work more in Wisconsin to

9:49  
I know, I know. But I thought that was great.

9:52  
I'm sorry. They know that.

9:55  
Well, if, if they're, you know, because you can do remote start using the on Star remote link out. Yeah. So so they have the data, you know, of what kinds of requests come through, you know, you can it's pretty easy to to to figure that out. You know, because if you're using the app, you know, then it's going to on stars control center. And then it sends a signal to the car to start.

10:17  
Yeah, well, I guess it's important as the App Maker to know the features that are getting used to not used and then if they're not getting used, why are they not getting used?

10:26  
Okay, well, I'll take the tinfoil hat on that.

10:31  
Like everyone starts from the fog. I hope nobody but me in the car know.

10:36  
Exactly. And I'm sure it's all aggregated for privacy.

10:39  
Oh, of course. Yes. Of course. This is and you know, jump. Sure it's completely secure. And nobody would ever be able to find a way to get that information.

10:49  
Never, never ever

10:53  
Yeah, probably got probably got other, you know, bigger problems to worry about, especially for us anything that Facebook makes.

11:01  
Okay,

11:04  
well, let's roll into a podcast. So one of the things that we do this this is your first time on we talked about the cars were driving and I'm assuming that they're in Greenwich. They have a pretty robust fleet in the New York area. So you're driving media cars on a regular basis.

11:21  
I am when I'm home, I generally have one or two cars. I today this week. I have an Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadro folio, all wheel drive or sadness is just so much fun. It's so much fun I'm not gonna lie

11:40  
that's that's I like that when I I actually didn't drive it I wrote in it

11:48  
I was very impressed with this stuff

11:51  
you know it's I went on the launch a year and change ago now I

11:58  
wasn't it

11:59  
yesterday was at Kota, which is a great track. I like that track. It's my second favorite. My first one is going to say,

12:09  
of course,

12:09  
there's nothing like there's nothing likely going to Sega and I know that track by heart. I just. I love that track. You say?

12:17  
No. You know, it's funny. It's crazy. Because it's right in my backyard. Yeah, I have only been on the snow track at Lime Rock. I haven't actually been online rock. Isn't that crazy?

12:30  
Wow. I know. I've heard Lime Rock described is going very fast down a hallway. It's because it's not as

12:35  
Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty short track. Yeah. And it's just over a mile long. I think too.

12:40  
Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things I would love to see more women taking track lessons, more women just taking I've actually never taken like the Porsche driving school. And it's something you know, somebody that you don't think about as being necessary to everyday life. But I gotta tell you, like I learned a lot. When we did this. General Motors had an event last year with a bunch of Chevy's and it was the equinox. And we did the data traverse, and we got to just just go for like, four hours driving around in the snow. And you really, you know, you learn a lot in that relatively safe environment of being able to anticipate what your vehicle may do as it slides. You know, as you understeer and oversteer. And you kind of catch yourself and, and these are things that, you know, I would much rather have people learn in a, in a safe, you know, closed course then on Route 95, you know,

13:45  
yeah, it's absolutely better if you can, if you have a chance to practice those maneuvers, you know, somewhere where there are other or there aren't other vehicles around you know, and get used to, you know, things like counter steering I was, I was fortunate, you know, know, early in my engineering career, the company I worked for the time Kelsey Hayes back in about 1992 set all of its engineering staff that was working on things like abs and traction control out to Arizona to take the bob bondra driving right and so we did the the four day course sir and you know, it was amazing and then you know, over the course of my engineering career I spent a lot of time driving around on frozen lakes

14:28  
which you know when you're when you're developing abs and traction control stability control you do these things in the winter time right yeah and you know then when when my kids got old enough you know when they were learning to drive you know I took them out you know into an empty parking lot and you know that I did you know i replicated you know the skid you know giving them the opportunity to you know to learn skid control you know by you know, while I was sitting in the left hand seat you know manipulating the parking brake lever

15:00  
figure out how to counter

15:01  
that's awesome to my brother

15:05  
High School. He driving the escort

15:11  
Yeah,

15:12  
that's awesome. So you know,

15:14  
tell tell us more about your thoughts about the the Stelvio.

15:19  
So one of the things I love about the Silvio is it's just it's visually a beautiful car It has gorgeous proportions you know, you want to have that sort of all that that rear wheel drive proportion, those that high beltline, the low greenhouse, you know, the visibility is not great out the back and I've been I generally don't have an issue with visibility, but I can see where this could be a little compromise for some people. But otherwise, it's just, it's just a beautiful vehicle and you sit in it and you kind of get wrapped around in it because of that high belt line. There's a great, great sense of security and kind of like this beautiful, you know, suede blanket that's wrapped around. I love the steering wheel. It has this it's small and concise and you have this feeling that you are that you are driving a little rocket ship, and it kind of reminds me of like those little like the go karts like a little f1 carts with a little tiny stereo

16:28  
Yeah, it's not the corporate FCA wheel

16:30  
No, no, no.

16:34  
Well, even even the stop Start button the engine stop Start button is on the steering wheel it's not on the dashboard

16:40  
it's on the left side now the only challenge with that is if you park on a curve you know if you turn the wheel like in San Francisco or something or just on a hill it's out of it it's a not in the right position so it's a little bit weird in that regard so you do have to kind of get used to that I but it is very very much like a little race car and and that's just a lot of fun it's really fast it's got a 2.9 leader engines 505 horsepower twin turbo be six at a

17:17  
glorious

17:18  
is it ended and the exhaust note is to die for. I mean, I would never deliberately exceed the speed limit. But every once in a while, I looked down and I think it's a six but it's actually more like an eight.

17:37  
It's just it's really it just zips around. The other thing I like is you know, especially here in Southern Connecticut, I'm just outside of New York City. And all you see are black Range Rovers. And I love Range Rover. I love the brand. The vehicles are great, but every once in a while, you just want to be in something a little bit different. And you know, alpha certainly does that I and and the Stelvio gives that, you know a lot of utility but in a Super Fun Pack.

18:07  
So here's the question and it's a little bit region specific. But do you have a particular favorite driving route in that air? Because I'm trying to think like, okay, so you got 95 you get 84 that comes down. You could go up 15 or

18:24  
Yeah, so the Merritt Parkway the way Yeah, America Parkway, Hutchinson river the hard way right. Some of those are pretty good driving. There's in it around Greenwich, Stanford, Westport, Wilton, all that kind of area. It's pretty good driving. And there's you know, some of the roads are very narrow, very small, but I think the parkway is probably the best place to open it up a little bit. Yeah. And and to get some to get some movement.

19:00  
Yeah, Wilton gets a little bit more rural if I remember. So that

19:03  
it does. It does get a little bit more rural. Actually. Parts of Greenwich are incredibly rural. I mean, you can grant inches big. It's it's it covers 60 square miles. So you can you know the northern or the back country, as they call it.

19:22  
The Manhattanites are drying up the states because it's really it's eastern New York,

19:26  
exactly. Yes. So rose in the back country can get they can get some some some nice curves going on.

19:34  
Right. Well, next time down there. I have to see. Yes, for sure.

19:39  
Yeah. And the Silvio just, it goes, the one that I've got, which has the all wheel drive package. And, oh, it's got the, the try code for 20, $300.

19:52  
This one is 85,008, 90,

19:56  
which I have to say, you know, obviously it's a lot of money but it's a lot less than the Missouri Roddy Levante which is you know, somewhat similar and I just think it's it's just all sorts of fun It does have the drivers system adaptive cruise control for Collision Warning all that that's only about 1500 bucks Apple Car Play Android Auto. I mean it's it's, it's pretty well equipped. And And again, it's got the heated steering wheel which is toasty especially you know, on days like this. So overall, I just I think it's just an absolutely fantastic vehicle. tons of fun to drive.

20:34  
Yeah I drove the the two leaders Stelvio just about a year ago just before the Chicago show last year I had one and the even that one you know it was a lot of fun you know and you know it's it's on the same platform as the the Julia today it's just it's a little bit higher and you know because it's a crossover you know you've got that the rear hatch you know so it's basically like having a Stelvio wagon that's good it's a little bit taller

21:01  
it is it is and you know I was out I I wrote a story for Forbes on on the Ferrari to 50 GTO that was sold that was went to auction back in August so when I went to the garage with the owner

21:20  
who now sold it Greg Witten from Microsoft he has a stealthy he has a Julia at the time he had a Julia and he actually told me when I saw at CES that he traded in and got the Quadro folio that the Stelvio portfolio because the end a little bit more room but one of our friends also another tech guy also has a Julia and then the guy a guy that takes care of another tech billionaires stable of vehicles he pulled up in his in the Julia as well and they didn't even know that they had all bought them. So and so there's this sense of, you know, kind of like the the runabout car is is of the of the tech billionaire set is clearly the Julia

22:07  
Rebecca is it because the fond memories of what alpha used to be or is it just

22:14  
I think it's just fun to drive. I really do I think it's just it's fun to drive you know, the seats kind of again it's it's sort of reminiscent you know, it's when when you don't want to take your Ferrari out you know, this gives you that same kind of fun feel.

22:28  
Yeah and you know, it does have that same kind of Italian feel there's certainly a lot of Ferrari DNA and it Ferrari Ferrari worked with alpha male to develop that twin turbo V six that's in there yeah and you know so it's got that kind of feel to it I've driven the the July the Julia Quadro folio times and I drove the drove the Stelvio Quadro folio at at Road America last spring during the mama spring rally. That's fun. And yeah, I mean it was it was phenomenal. All there. Yeah, you know, and I think you know, if you live in a place like Michigan or Connecticut, you know and you know some place where there's winters you know, and you want to be able to drive it year round, I think you know the Stelvio definitely has an advantage with that you know bit of extra ground clearance because last year you know when I got back from the Chicago Auto Show we'd been hit by a snowstorm you know while I was on my way back and you know i there were supposed to have been a two liter Julia delivered to my house while I was gone. Turns out they brought the Quadro folio back again, and you know, it has about three inches of ground clearance when you have eight inches of snow, that's just it's not a good combination.

23:41  
That's

23:46  
good. So you are also driving the the MX five

23:52  
this I've got the CX five six I'm sorry,

23:55  
I looked great

23:56  
cx five which I'm to be very truthful about. I haven't I haven't driven it yet. So the got dropped off at the same time. There was a little bit of a double booking issue. And I got tied up at the dentist yesterday and not in a good way. And so I haven't had a chance to drive it yet. And like Sam, I barely left the house. So tomorrow this weekend, I'll be taking out the Mazda

24:19  
Yeah, we could we could. I've actually got a cx five in the driveway right now as well. That so why don't we Why don't we come back to that next week? Do you have the turbo the new turn to buy five liter turbo?

24:29  
I don't think so. I haven't even pulled out the Maroney. I'm sorry. I've been really bad. Well, we can know what else what else I just had to was the Jeep Wrangler. The new one. Have you had that yet? Yes.

24:40  
Yeah. What would you think of it?

24:42  
I was stunned and delighted. Absolutely. My brother has the has a

24:51  
in that I at five feet tall. I can barely get in and out of that thing. And it just, it's just not an enjoyable vehicle to be in. In my opinion. This new one, I had the unlimited Sahara four by four. I absolutely loved that thing. I felt like a total badass in it. And I could just go conquer the world. And it was super comfortable. It was kind of allowed on the highway for sure. Because I had the cloth roof. But otherwise, I just absolutely loved it. I was delighted with that. It was so much fun.

25:25  
Did you have to the two liter or the V six?

25:28  
Ah, let me look at it. I had the cheerleader in line for

25:32  
I haven't driven that one yet. I I do think they've defined the Wrangler quite a bit, even though it's still a Wrangler. So I was impressed with that. But I wish I could get my hands on that for some. I'm sure there's going to be one coming my way soon. Because I think that that's got to be a big difference.

25:48  
It really was. I mean, I was absolutely amazed. And granted, it's 3000.

25:58  
It's shocking. How expensive Wranglers

26:00  
did not. It didn't have heated seats. It didn't have heated seats. What I know, I know. We were shocked. I've got my nephew with me. And I was like Jake, I said you have to read through this. Am I missing something? We can find them anywhere. And I was like, wait a minute. How does this not have heated seats? It didn't have heated seats that should have every dollars. Yeah, that

26:23  
should have everything for $53,000. So I still go back to I was complaining on Twitter about this the other day. So the Wrangler has become this kind of like outdoorsy camera right there. Just everywhere. And yeah, they sell to people who just use them to commit which is it's fine. You can you can buy what you choose. But it's it's just such a it's a commitment to live with every day. And I as much as I love the Wrangler. I get so tired of it after a week with it. You know, it's just it's, you know, stiff need. And just so

26:54  
that the difference is that Dan that was that was my feeling on it. That was my initial thought was all right. You know, this will be fine for a couple days. I actually loved it. And my I know my sister in law used to have one years and years ago, and they said my brothers had to now back to back. And this one was so refined it was I mean, it was shocking in its livability because because I did the same thing I look and I'm like, really like and wrangle it. You know, the great thing about Jeep is it's the brand of Busboys and billionaires, right, you can see it and everybody started

27:38  
off as a billionaire. People make you into a busboy.

27:42  
How do you how do you make a small fortune energy,

27:45  
but you know,

27:47  
it's such an accessible brand. So I was just I was absolutely delighted by the Wrangler. absolutely delighted, I couldn't believe it. All right.

27:57  
Yeah, I mean, I found it the current one, vastly more vastly superior to the last generation one, but it's still not a vehicle that I would ever want to own.

28:07  
Well, I don't know. I mean, I still think, you know, what I liked about it was, first of all, certainly, that ground clearance, that sense of, you know, if it snows, it doesn't matter. You know, you can get to where ever you

28:21  
don't, you don't care about whether in that thing

28:23  
you don't care about whether in that thing. And, you know, I didn't pull up with the lack of heated seats. But that was set up for sure. But, you know, I remember as a kid I buy, my brother and I were coming home, we were coming home from church from a youth group meeting one night, and this girl had slid off the side of the road, and we got out to help her although we couldn't really help her but at least we could be there and I remember this guy pulling up in this totally tricked out Jeep Wrangler and he said he said oh no I'm sorry he pulled up in a 911 and he said hold on I've got a Jeep Wrangler with a winch at home I'll be right back

29:03  
right total superhero comes back and my brother and I looked at each other you know we're like that's the perfect garage

29:13  
she's I was because I was gonna say Sammy like when you get that hunting lodge up on the up you might

29:20  
want to Wrangler that's a good point yeah

29:24  
that's a good point

29:27  
yeah wagon

29:28  
yeah well you know the that's that's one thing you know when I when I saw the the new Jeep when they the one that I had last summer was the hard top four door and actually from behind in particular you know I don't know if you've if you've looked at the spent much time looking at the hard top version Rebecca but from behind it looks so much like a G wagon. Now. It does especially.

29:53  
Yeah, the the silver one looks just like a G wagon from behind now.

29:57  
Yeah, you know what, my, my nephew said the same thing. He said, this looks just like a G wagon. And I agree with them. It does. I mean,

30:06  
yeah, it doesn't cost nearly as much. But it's got these great proportions to it. You know, it's a big square, and there's just I love the improvements that they've done with it. There's such great detail in the lights, you know, it's just, they've just paid they've paid a lot of risk. They paid a lot of respect to the brand. And, and one of the things that I've been looking at the market is who is a good steward of their brand. And I think that Mike manly, and the people at at FCA have been really, really good stewards of the Jeep brand. Oh, yeah.

30:45  
Yeah, they have to be. I mean, that's, that's the cash cow. Right? That's the goose

30:52  
Wrangler. Over the Wranglers. Like it's expensive, because they think it's expensive to build as well.

30:58  
Yeah, but, but even the rest of the Jeep lineup, you know, even things like, you know, vehicles, like the renegade and the compass, you know, especially the current generation compass. Yes, you know, I have, they've, they've really gotten so much better, you know, and they, you know, the, the first generation Cup was, you know, was, was a terrible vehicle. I mean, there's no way around, it was awful, but the second generation and, you know, the current Cherokee, and the renegade you know, those are all vehicles that really, you know, they deserve to carry the Jeep name, you know, especially, you know, when you get the trail hot versions, I mean, those are all legitimately capable off road vehicles. Yeah, and they're, you know, they're, they deserve to be called jeeps

31:40  
well, and my experience with actually sort of Jeep shopping, is that they're smart enough to make those trail rated versions of everything that they make, but they also know how to package them, so that the people who want the brand and the perceived all weather capability and ruggedness, and whatever else Jeep says, because it's cheap,

32:03  
they package it in such a way that you can get into it. And you get a reasonably, you know, amenable vehicle. And it's got the stuff that you the features that you want to not necessarily as hardcore because not everybody's going to want to appreciate that the trail Hawk, but they're going to really like the latitude, you know, and they, they make that actually quite affordable and very, very competitive. And, you know, the compass, I mean, they did a fantastic job reading that to the point where I think it encourages on the Cherokee they're, they're sort of, like, stacked right up on each other. But you look at the Jeep line up now, versus, I don't know, three or four years ago. Yeah, they've been very good students. they've, they've done a very careful job with Jeep.

32:44  
Yeah, they have. So I drew what, when I moved when I, the week, I started at Kelley Blue Book, I was flying out to Irvine for two weeks, and I rented a Jeep Compass,

32:59  
that was the old company. That's right.

33:00  
The old compass, it, it

33:05  
was, it was just, it was so, so awful. I and I think, you know, starting a new job, there's so much going on, you know, I'm, I had only been back in the country a couple of weeks, and I just, I couldn't get myself like, I couldn't organize myself enough to go to Long Beach airport to get something else. But it was close to that. It was so horrible. I dreaded driving that thing. But the new compass, I just had that about a month ago or so. And that again, was just, it was just terrific. It was, it was, it was really great. Again, like a cute, fun, relatively inexpensive, I think mine was in the third low 30s and just just great. We actually got a little snow the week that I had it and so I took it to the beach just to get some you a prettier pictures of it. And so, but again, it's that nice sense of, you know, this is a Jeep, it's, it's going to handle pretty well, of course, it's just all wheel drive. But you still have that sense of confidence that, you know, it's, it's still a Jeep, and, and it still looks like it's fun and fun to drive. And, and again, they've just been they've done a fantastic job with it with the brand.

34:20  
I agree. Totally agree.

34:22  
Correct. Right. Well, we're in agreement,

34:25  
and you win

34:26  
a prize for driving this sort of, like, the nicest, most pricey stuff because I mean, do you gotta keep up appearances and crunch

34:32  
Yeah, exactly.

34:34  
But Sam, you've been in the Hyundai Santa Fe

34:36  
Yeah, I spent a week with the Santa Fe after I got back from Utah last week. And you know, the, the last generation Santa Fe I was actually surprisingly underwhelmed by, you know, I had driven the Santa Fe Sport last time around for about two years ago. And, you know, it did not work really impressed me very much. This one, though, you know, was such an enormous step forward for one day, you know, and what, you know what Hyundai's done this time around what the Santa Fe they actually split it up again you know that when they like a 10 years ago, you know, 10 or 12 years ago you know they had the two row Santa Fe as a compact crossover and then when they did their first three real crossover they called it the pic they brought it out as the cruise and that one didn't sell that well for some for a variety of reasons but then you know when they redesigned those they put both Veracruz in the Santa Fe on the same platform and they had they they made or the replacement for the Veracruz they made the three row and called that the Santa Fe and then the two row was the Santa Fe Sport

35:50  
seven was condensing

35:51  
Yeah. So now they're back to the to roll being this just the Santa Fe and they just launched the new palisade as their new big three row cross. Oh, but

36:00  
they've also got the three rows. Santa Fe, right, which is the Santa Fe XL,

36:04  
not in North America. I don't think they're still selling the old Santa Fe as the XL for for the time for the time being. But that's going to go away I think later this year.

36:18  
So there's no that's what I see. Yeah, there's no there's no three row direct three row version of the Santa Fe but, you know, the design of this thing, you know, has changed pretty dramatically, you know, as kind of a step in a in a new direction for one day, you know, it's, you know, it, it's it actually when you look at it, from a distance, it actually looks quite a bit larger than it actually is, because it's much more it's much boxier and kind of chunky are looking than than the last generation one. But when you get up close to it, you realize it's actually not that big. It's kind of it's kind of a weird visual.

36:58  
What's the word I'm looking for optical illusion illusion? Yes.

37:05  
But you know so you know I think it actually looks really good you know, and it's you know, it's got it's got kind of Bolton bolder styling than the last one did you know, they've, they've adopted some stuff, some elements from the Kona you know, so you have those slim horizontal lights at the top corner, top of the corners. And then the bigger headlights down below, you know, this new version of the, the Hyundai grill, you know, that they've been doing for the last couple of years, the chrome strip that goes all the way across the ties everything together. So I think it's a good looking vehicle, you know, inside, it's got a, you know, it's got, you know, surprisingly premium feel to it. I mean, this, you know, this one, almost felt like something that, you know, would fit in quite nicely, you know, as an entry level Genesis crossover, you know, as the overall, you know, I thought it drove really well, you know, got the two liter turbo in there, with about 250 horsepower sounded a little bit on the, the course side, you know, it didn't sound the engine didn't sound quite as refined as, as, you know, kind of what the rest of the vehicle, you know, kind of the, the perception the rest of the vehicle gave you, but overall, you know, I thought it was really good to drive and, you know, get pretty decent fuel economy got like, 24 miles per gallon,

38:25  
what did you have

38:26  
for the engine, the two liter turbo, which I think is the only engine in there right now, or maybe it may have the two fours Well, the the naturally aspirated to four

38:38  
but yeah, and this one, you know, it was, it was really well equipped, you know, had all the drivers this features, the adaptive cruise and link keeping and everything else, you know, and this, this was the loaded one, you know, is the ultimate and it was just shy of $40,000.

38:55  
That's a lot more than it has a lot more features than a Jeep for 53.

39:00  
That's true, but you can't take the doors off of this one or the top off can and you certainly certainly, I certainly think you don't want to try taking this one down the Rubicon trail I mean, it was fine in the snow. But you know, you you don't want to go crawling over boulders in this thing.

39:19  
Okay. Yeah, I'll agree with that. I mean, it's a good family SUV, right? And that's what that's what they've been making for a while. And tech wise I'm assuming it had the typical mix of a good easy to use infotainment.

39:35  
Yeah. You know, it's got the same interface you'll find on any other Hyundai or key, a model built in the, like the last three or four years, you know, support for Android Auto and Car Play. And even the even the stock, you know, OEM infotainment system you know, is pretty easy to use. Everything's pretty straightforward. You know, it has nav you know, so every everything that you would expect is there including heated seats and heated steering wheel, right. I mean, what, what, you can't get enough $53,000 Wrangler.

40:08  
This is true. Yeah.

40:12  
Okay. Ah, alright. Let me Did we lose, Rebecca is she's just listening intently.

40:19  
I'm listening intently.

40:22  
Have you driven the Santa Fe? Rebecca? You know,

40:25  
I was thinking about I don't believe I have. I was trying to think back on my vehicles. I just had

40:37  
the to have the Kona you know, I don't think so. I've got to look back. I don't think I've been in Hyundai's in a little while. You know, they kind of go in waves. Yeah, um,

40:49  
I do like that. The Kona sort of separate design direction for hundreds newer range of SUVs. You know there's some of those Kona elements in this new Santa Fe

41:01  
Yeah right. But but it's also a little more grown up looking it's not quite as you know, kind of funky as the as the cone is

41:08  
I did recently drive well I shouldn't say recently I drove the the Genesis g 70 over in Korea and that was really good really good

41:22  
Dan or the

41:23  
sedan yeah okay yes yeah the sedan I gotta look what what is the what's the key version of the of the Hyundai Kona

41:36  
there isn't one directly right now. You know, they've got they've got the soul. You know, they kind of browse a crossover and I think it's actually sharing the Kona platform

41:47  
right. He must have been the Kona that I had I had to look back and see because I only had it for a few days but you know overall I just can Hyundai have done an incredible job job of upping their game and and putting out really really good product that and you yes their prices have gone up a little bit but you know overall I think they've just done a fantastic job I just continuously getting better and by keeping they're keeping their Korean ness if you Well, you know, and and again, being good stewards of their brand and what they do really well.

42:29  
Yeah, you know, and, you know, while the prices have crept up, you know, compared to their competition you know, in the same segments they're, you know, they're not more expensive You know, they're comparable you know, so there's still a really good value and you you know, at any given price point you get a lot for you know, for what you're paying you know and i think you know you said you know they've been good stewards of the brand you know, they you know, the last couple of years they struggled a bit on the sales side because they they were pretty sedan heavy and there were lineups right yeah, and there's they're getting some fresh crossovers in there now and some additional stuff like the Kona which is doing really well and i think you know that's going to help them going forward with the Kona the this this new Santa Fe and then the palisade coming over the next few months I think I think they'll be in pretty good shape going forward

43:18  
yeah that palisade it really is gorgeous I was I had lunch was it last I think Friday with friends of mine who worked for Genesis actually but I was at the Hyundai world us headquarters and there was a Palisades there in the parking lot and you know when we see a lot of times we see these vehicles you know like in in a show or in in added auto show or something but it's different to see it out on the road and that thing had some great presence beautiful proportions as you mentioned like the you know the the narrow headlamps it just it looked really good it was definitely a head turner and and to see it in the parking lot you know just it It stands really tall it definitely has a presence about it that the Santa Fe just doesn't so I'm excited to see how palisade is received

44:13  
yeah yeah I think that's one thing that Hyundai and kiya are both very good at is

44:19  
I've said this before you know their design team they didn't skimp on design today attracted a lot of lot of guys from you know, the the premium German brands and now they've they've got the driving dynamics to go with it now they grabbed was Albert Biermann oh yeah so they've really aggressively delivered cars that drive like a million bucks and cost a lot less than a very high value thing and they look really really good to their their unique they stand out and they're sort of finding their

44:55  
I don't even know if it's the second one but it's just like they're they're really finding their design footing where they don't look derivative of anything else on the road now when that was always the thing is they you know especially even the the last Santa Fe for example it looks good but it didn't really look distinctive now it's right it's much more distinctive now and that's right across the lineup

45:17  
I think that their one of their challenges is just people can getting on the consideration list. You know, that's always an issue for them. People think of it as a bargain brand and it's really not and it doesn't it doesn't deserve that nomenclature anymore. It is it's a legitimate brand that you really should think about I think it's you know, like we just talked about with the Santa Fe XL Santa Fe database for the very cruise the palisade they're going to have some marketing challenges getting these names out there getting people familiar with you know with what is the palisade and and keeping people straight on what's what now I think one advantage they have is that palisade looks absolutely nothing like the Santa Fe i mean it's it's really very much its own vehicle so I think that'll be a good thing but it's a lot of money to try and you know and launch a nameplate and and getting people to think about that name plate. And so that will be interesting to watch how Palisades debt how palisade dad and how you see that in the marketplace.

46:29  
Yeah, one look. I mean, if they they're there. They're not necessarily a bargain brand. There's still a high value brand. And, you know, I think if they want to put their resources behind establishing those nameplates. They're going to be successful at it. And, you know, I mean, nobody makes new names and then throws them away with all the equity better than American brands.

46:52  
Just stick with it for a little bit longer. They'll they'll do okay.

46:56  
Yes.

46:58  
Yeah, that that that is a problem that Florida as

47:02  
they all do it I mean, just the list of names is just ridiculous to go through for the last 50 years. So

47:10  
the last thing that has been in the garage, I got a 2019 Dodge Charger all wheel drive. And it's you know, shockingly like the 2007 Dodge Charger

47:22  
is a very good car. I'm I'm really I'm impressed with how fresh they can make this car feel. You know, it's it's a big sedan, it drives tidy, it's comfortable. All the controls are quite easy to figure out the materials. Ever since they did lash up with FCA, the materials in the interior are great, you know, I think Chrysler

47:48  
FCA does some of the best interiors in the business for for the price and, you know, the scars is no different. You know, they I think they've redone the dash pad for this year. Or this particular model package I have has a almost looks like, you know, like leather wrapped dash and then in the charger. There's a lot of dash. So, it used to look like this big Rubbermaid thing that was all one piece. And they've they've tried to make it I think look a little bit more stylish. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's a good car. It's very, very stable in the crappy weather we've had. So you know, it's one of those cars, it's sort of like, it's always going to be there.

48:32  
And it's a good recommendation. It's it's hard to argue with it. And it's you know, it's a high value car.

48:37  
Pena star

48:39  
star

48:41  
is no slouch. I needed to pass three cars in a row on the highway tonight. And I just put my foot down and the needle was pointing at nine. So

48:54  
it's like a 300 horsepower engine. You know,

48:57  
I would, I would take one over the slant six and my my dad's old 73 dark any day of the week.

49:04  
Ah, so yeah, I remember taking my friend Jesse when I was in high school. He had a 71 valley with a slant six and a broken torsion bar. Because they all did

49:16  
we crank that thing as you are saggy relief spring, right?

49:20  
Well, for both, we crank that thing up to about 110 one day. It took a very long time to get there. And it was terrifying. so bad. This is not terrifying this you just put your foot down and you go so you don't need the Hemi. That Peniston does just fine. Especially with the I think the eight speed auto it's Yeah,

49:39  
they tweet out at Yep,

49:40  
it's a really good match. And, you know, all wheel drive in this platform. It's great. And the charger it's great in the challenger gt like this. It's just a good car. You know, it may not be everybody's thing. But it's it's a good big car. So

49:54  
I actually i i love i love the charger because I think it just celebrates America muscle and. And too often that's shunned when I think it just it should be celebrated. You know, it's, it's that I love the Dodge tagline of domestic not domesticated that's pretty good. You know, it's, it's such a fantastic celebration of

50:20  
you know, domestically oriented people. Not everyone wants a passport not everyone wants Nia wants to go explore the world and that kind of mindset that domestically oriented mindset needs to be celebrated more than it is

50:34  
I agree and you know I I just wish that they would consider bringing back the Magnum yeah i think i think you know we're we're at a time when you know perhaps you know maybe now is the magnums time you know jack it up you know a couple inches put some you know put some plastic Ferris wheel arch extensions on there called a crossover and I think it would be perfect right now

50:58  
no it was definitely ahead of its

51:01  
yeah absolutely

51:02  
well and you know the whole the whole wagon kind of you know conversation is one that's really interesting also because you know baby boomers and for background I do a lot of work looking at generational analysis and trends and how you're growing up experience affects your attitude towards different products and such and so you know for baby boomers a station wagon was not aspirational that's you know one of the reasons they moved to St

51:35  
inspired to get out of state

51:37  
they did exactly but what's interesting is that like you know when when when the Buick Regal tour x first came out I went on that launched last year and a friend of mine from california i as an unknown domestically oriented as you can get he contacted me he's like I'm a little because I think can't believe I'm asking you about this but what did you think of that car and it was all sorts of fun to drive the tour the realtor x with the torque factoring It was great off road you're not hard off road but you know just general It was a lot of fun and and I told him I said you know I think it's a great vehicle and and this is a typical millennial attitude he's he's in his late 30s and is like you know I've all I've grown up with our SUVs I want something different and it's that crazy kind of cyclical thing that you don't want what your parents have right and so you know the wagon I there is opportunity for well played East be a low volume wagons, I think in to really make a statement. I especially in what I call the trophy generation, the the millennials that are older than the trophies. I know, and I say that with love

53:00  
boomers fall, you know, just as much as the, the boomers are sort of the result of the greatest generation Yes, conspicuously consuming everything in sight.

53:10  
But yeah, I agree that there's definitely I've been very curious about the, the tastes and desires of folks that are a little younger than me, you know, in their, in their 30s and 20s. Yeah, because they are different. And there is that reaction against the SUV. And part of it is the living arrangements are different, where they either, you know, if they're in a more urban environment, or even, you know, with the Sprawl that we have, you don't have to be directly in the city to still have a tight parking situation where you're renting, and it's a multi family house, and there's just only so much space in the driveway, right? So you need something small or cheap, because if you're going to st Park, it's just going to get completely destroyed. So right.

54:00  
Yeah, and they're bright as it is. And I think it's also important I don't want to completely derail us we can talk

54:07  
about that rolling

54:08  
it's an it's important also to remember that because of the great recession that you can't block all millennials together there's not it's only the Great Recession but it's also just technology so you can't look at at millennials as one generation they had very different growing up experiences in some cases even within the same family where you know, if you're in you're if you're like mid to late 30s your parents you know, pretty much I mean, they were they were over indulgent baby boomer parents. And you know, and that's why I call them the trophy generations because they did show up and get a trophy but people like 30 and younger like even 18 to 30 that graduated college are you post recession they actually saw their baby boomer parents lose everything and and, you know, and and lose their job, lose their houses in some cases and end up in their late 50s and into their 60s with not a single stamp in their passport.

55:16  
Well, so And I'm curious about where those those people fit because like are they boomers are they echo boomers, and there's just like, you can really stratosphere stratify the the generations but you know, it's, it's weird. There's this weird sort of group of parents that are not as old as my parents who were early boys, and they're in their 70s. And, you know, the early 70s now, yeah, there's these folks that were born after, you know, 1955. And that's sort of like the second wave of the boom, right, like, or where do they right? Not to get right.

55:51  
Yeah, so, so the second wave of the boom, their kids now are, are basically 30 and younger in some cases. And I mean, the birth year, baby boomers typically are 1945 to 1964, and then Gen X is 65 to 77 and then just as the wire Yeah. Then and then 78 is was traditionally I generally question why that was, what would they were first called. And then it kind of evolved into the millennials but absolutely your parents have influence on your growing up experience. But again, what what demographers and and sociologists are finding is that your kit your friends, and the world around you has, has a lot more influence, especially with the internet. So people in their 20s I, I call them I really this the social generation, you know, the sort of the social media generation, because that is how they communicate with each other. But even but even what's interesting is, even kids talk funny and younger, have a different relationship with different social media outlets like Snapchat. So Snapchat for people in their in their mid 20s is a way of intimate conversation between like a boyfriend and girlfriend, and you don't Snapchat with people of the opposite sex, you only Snapchat with your, your significant other. Whereas for younger people like 20, and younger, these have chat with everybody like the feathers,

57:36  
there's little like the faces,

57:38  
Ray, all those little things. But so you know, check because technology is moving so quickly. And because adoption rates of technology are now measured in months and years as opposed to years and decades, your relationship with that technology is different just based on it could just be a couple of years difference in your age. So all that kind of translates into how you communicate and how you interact with different vehicles as well. And that's why marketing gets so tricky trying to market these different vehicles. Because what appeals to a 38 year old millennial is not the same as what appeals to a 28 year year old millennial.

58:20  
Well, I am trying to

58:23  
know, okay, no, I'm just I'm just absorbing this, you know, the mass hot pot pot pondering the fact that I have, you know, the the couple of times that I actually tried to figure out Snapchat completely befuddled me

58:42  
as somebody you know, who is, you know, an engineer, and, you know, generally a pretty techie kind of guy, you know, every time I tried to open that app, I was completely lost. I had no idea what the hell I was doing. So clearly, I was far too old to be, you know,

58:57  
what I can't use? I can't use it all is

59:02  
Pinterest.

59:05  
frustrates the hell out of me. Because it's like, you get the pin board. Okay, fine. And my wife uses. So maybe this is a this is a good sort of place, we can actually take the topic because we can, we can bring it around the cars, but like my wife using it's like a pin board. I'm like, Why? Why do I have to click off the app to to see the thing and I like I understand the idea. But as an app maker or as a as somebody who works in in marketing. And like direct response marketing. The last thing I ever want to do is give somebody an exit off my site for the thing that they want. No, no, no, you have that in my platform. And you see that with like Facebook. Facebook doesn't let you out. They wanted all native, right. So Pinterest. Like, it confuses me. There's the paradigm and I cannot make it go

59:52  
frustrates me. But you know,

59:56  
what, what do you see is like, because we've seen Okay, there there were boomers, and they had station wagons when they were kids. So they didn't want station wagons. So they graduated too many events. You know, there was a whole proliferation of minivans when I was a kid, and then we've moved to SUVs. You know, they the Ford Explorer really was the first one that that kind of kick that off back in 91, like, I just remember, this exploded on the market, and then everybody had one, right, and now we've moved to the car based SUVs. So the crossovers and either they're sort of like getting, they don't, they're in that place where you know, that if everybody who critiques the cars hates them, you know, that's the most popular thing.

1:00:42  
Nobody, nobody will really it over grudgingly coming around, right to saying, like, you know, like, we're sad that wagons with manual transmissions are going, but, you know, these crossovers, like, they're not that bad. And so I wonder if part of that is there's this dominant group of men who seemed to critique of cars, and then there's actually women who buy most of the drive, you know, 50 to 80% of the high dollar purchases in the household. And so, like, are we seeing that, you know, the, the, the, the, the enthusiast presses catching up to reality where the people who are actually buying the cars are driving what the cars are,

1:01:30  
I

1:01:33  
stumped everyone.

1:01:35  
I mean, I think, you know, I we certainly, I mean, there, there is a there's a level of circuitous nessun you know, in in every

1:01:47  
this, you know, the cycle will always kind of go around. But I think

1:01:54  
I think that was one of the things that where we are today in the company market, particularly when it comes to SUVs and crossovers, is that because we have shared platforms, now we can do iterations of these vehicles to suit everybody. And, you know, like with the Honda passport being built on the exact same platform, and with the same wheelbase, even as the Honda Pilot, but delivering a very different ownership experience and a very different driving experience, it's we're able to do, we're able to almost personalize and customize vehicles, so you can build profitably 40 or 50,000 of something, you know, or 30,000 of something, because you're actually building 150 or 200,000 of something else. And

1:03:00  
most of the same parts over and over again,

1:03:03  
right. And you've got economies of scale, particularly with things that consumers never see, you know, like wire harnesses, and, you know, all the kind of the underbody stuff Hmm, can be exactly the same. So all these kinds of things, you can get economies of scale, this means that we have the opportunity to both personalize and customize products for very narrow stations within the marketplace. And so then you start to get people they're like, Well, you know, what, I they actually do have exactly what I need. And since most people really are pretty practical in their car buying, they they look and say, you know, what, a crossover pretty much checks all the boxes that I need from both an emotional and practical standpoint. So,

1:03:57  
let me let me throw in my two cents worth here in in my household over the last, you know, almost 20 years, you know, we've had several cars that have been my wife's primary car, you know, when when we first got married, she was driving a Mercury Sable and

1:04:18  
some fabulous so my,

1:04:21  
but in 2000, you know, wanted to get a new car and she did not want an SUV or a crossover and she actually wanted a station wagon you know, our kids were still relatively young at the time you know, they were, you know, under 10 years old and you know, so we got a Volkswagen Passat wagon and despite all the issues we had with it you know in 2009 we turned around bought another Volkswagen station wagon

1:04:48  
hey if the wind if the windows don't go up and down every time

1:04:53  
just it's

1:04:55  
as long as the driver's window would go up and down at the sunroof would open the rest is okay.

1:05:01  
I don't know why you keep complaining.

1:05:03  
Okay, so so the rear passenger side door won't walk

1:05:08  
valuable in the car

1:05:11  
It just means leave a sign on the seat that just says rear door won't lock and then they will smash the window

1:05:17  
open up you know don't don't don't break the glass just open it up.

1:05:24  
Well you know and my you know my life my traditional line has been Volkswagens great cars to drive, and terrible cars to own. Yeah, you know, I fortunately, I think that that has actually, you know, perhaps change hopefully changed somewhat, because I now have a six year 72,000 mile warranty on them. Yeah, so, you know, at least it's not, you know, at least for the first six years, you're not going to be paying, you know, hand over fist for everything. But, you know, the thing is, once the, you know, once we sold back the diesel wagon to Volkswagen a couple years ago, you know, my wife, we wanted another station wagon. She didn't she still even in 2017 did not want to get a crossover. And, you know, she, she likes driving car. She likes car driving dynamics, but like the utility of a wagon, and, you know, in the absence of anything, you know, in the price range that we wanted to pay, you know, and the size of class that we wanted, you know, we didn't, we didn't want to spend, you know, 80 or $90,000 on a Mercedes g class wagon, you know, that we ended up buying a Honda Civic hatchback, you know, because that was the closest thing we could get to a wagon. That wasn't a crossover, you know, that wasn't jacked up because she did not want that kind of car she want. She likes driving that car. So maybe she's just an outlier, but, you know, she's an outlier that's married to me and I like that.

1:06:39  
Well, I think it depends on what so there's a difference between what they classify the car as or what we would classify the car as and what other people see in the car. You know, something like the Honda Accord cross tour that's a that's an accord wagon. It was not yet not yet sold as a wagon. But it was this essentially a wagon and it's great for what for what it is, you know, we had our our day calling it ugly and whatever. It is actually pretty good to drive the BMW three series GT and five cities. gt those are I mean, I guess they're hatchbacks because they're hatches. Yeah, there are wagon versions of those cars. But

1:07:21  
you know, again, like, they're not the full on sort of Truckee, like fo SUV crossovers, but they do have some increased ride height and stuff like that.

1:07:33  
So yeah, I guess I guess it really depends on where they're trying to position the vehicle. And I think also, you know,

1:07:44  
like older folks, and I say, say this because you're thinking about the boomers are aging now, right there. They're in their 70s. So they got stuff like trick knees and bad hips. And I remember minivans were popular with like, the, the greatest generation folks that I knew. Yeah, for the same reason that that they're easy to get out of

1:08:05  
having that higher hit point.

1:08:06  
Yeah. And, and I'm not saying that to scoff at it. I think that's actually a legitimate

1:08:12  
Yeah, no, no. And the funny thing is, you know, back in the mid 2000s, that was exactly Ford's argument when they did the the 500 before 500

1:08:23  
and you know, who bought them

1:08:26  
pretty much nobody Oh,

1:08:27  
well, I see a lot of them that have been very gingerly Jews by Yeah,

1:08:32  
folks. But, you know, that was, that was the thing with the 500 is, you know, they made a taller sedan, you know, with and they, they talked a lot at the time about that higher, you know, having that higher hit point, you know, more like a crossover. But for people that, you know, wanted to sit down and do that some some people even bought them

1:08:53  
yeah,

1:08:55  
a few.

1:08:58  
Alright, so, we mentioned the, the passport and you get to drive the passport.

1:09:03  
We're both Rebecca and I

1:09:05  
said, Okay, so I have seen sort of mixed takes on this. I I was very interested in the passport when it debuted before anybody got to drive it, you know, it looks like a tidy or pilot it styling wise, it looks good. It fits a very slim niche in the Honda lineup, I think because you've got the pilot that covers both to row and third row. It's not too big, not too small. But then you've got the passport that notches in between that and the CR v. Which, you know, it is significantly smaller than the pilot. But it's not that much smaller than this passport, or, or is it is look, our looks deceive. It's

1:09:42  
actually it's actually quite a bit smaller than the passport you know, and I think, you know, the passport kind of symbolizes something we're going to see a lot more of, over the next year to we've already started seeing it. But we're really gonna see a lot more of it over the next couple of years, as many manufacturers start to come up with these sort of rugged eyes, crossovers, you know, ones that are targeted you know at people you know in Honda's case, you know, they talk talk about it as being the adventure vehicle, you know, something that's a little more off road oriented. And, you know, at least on paper, it is slightly more off road oriented than a pilot, you know, that it sits on the same wheelbase is the pilot, you know, hundred, I think about 111 inches, but, you know, it's six inches shorter. So, they basically took length, you know, off the front and rear end. So, you have a little bit better departure and approach angles with the thing

1:10:39  
you know, but it doesn't have any more ground clearance than a pilot does and in fact, you know what,

1:10:46  
I think it does actually almost an inch or ride height pilot, the pilot

1:10:53  
really Yes, that's that's weird. Like, well, maybe this is why people we're having trouble placing it and going Oh, yeah, it was it for

1:11:03  
Well, you know, I mean, when you look at it, you know, it's certainly it's proportions you know, even though it's only six inches shorter, you know, it's proportions make it it certainly looks tidy, or looks smaller than pilot does because it's also a little bit taller. Right, it's a couple inches taller the roof line is it a little bit higher than a pilot you know, but I think I think probably the single biggest weakness of the passport and it was actually I found it's you know, surprisingly capable off road driving it in Utah you know, on these trails but the I think the one the one mistake they made was unlike the pilot you know, the base the base trim level of the pilot is on 18 inch wheels on the passports all for trim levels of the passport right on 20 inch wheels with you know, fairly low profile tires, all season tires, which you know, I think if you're going to try and pitch this as your off road adventure vehicle and you should have at least one trim level that has smaller wheels with taller sidewalls you know and you know preferably you know even a little bit bigger rolling ready so you have even a little bit more brown clearance you know so it is a little more capable off road

1:12:13  
yeah I can say that no i agree i was again very pleasantly surprised at its offer capabilities I mean we were hitting speed of 60 miles an hour on some of those dirt roads and it was handling it really well there was it was very sure footed i a lot of fun to drive it was it was quite capable you know in in not significant off roading we're not talking cheap territory but enough that you could get to your campsite you know, if you wanted to or you know, out i i think so as, as a happily single totally forgot to get married kind of girl I I actually feel like I'm a good target for this. The last thing I want to be in is a mommy immobile and the pilot is all about family. Laira Harrington or Laura Actually, she pronounces it Laura Harrington is the chief engineer on the pilot pilot and the passport and she's absolutely fabulous. I just just fabulous looking fabulous feeling just has this amazing, wonderful energy about her. And she put it really well I thought she said that the passport is more of a personal ownership vehicle. Whereas the pilot is more of a family or ownership vehicle. And to me that really meant it's it's appealing to singles to divorced, empty nesters. People that are not don't have child responsibilities every day, it's got, you know, five passengers so you can bring your mind mom and dad if they need to go to the doctor or wherever if you're

1:14:03  
another couple, you know, bring your best friends.

1:14:06  
Exactly. So it's

1:14:11  
so it's it's not about the family. And and again, you know, I talk a lot about marketing because marketing is really important this is about that that person that maybe isn't surrounded by a family maybe they do live alone or they you know, have a significant other so it's a different it's a personal ownership vehicle rather than a family oriented vehicle

1:14:39  
yeah no I agree you know and you know, because you can't get it with a third row you know like you if you want a third row you've got to step up to the pilot in or go to an odyssey or something so it's it's a two row only and you know because you know they've only sliced six inches off of it that means you actually do get some extra cargo space in the back you know so it's actually it's got you know a lot of cargo space even behind that second row seat and then you know if you if you if it's just you and one other person you can drop the second row down and you can fit all kinds of stuff in there you can even probably camp in the back there I think it's probably to camp back there so you know i think i think it is it does have a lot of a lot of interesting potential and you know as you talked about earlier you know by with all the components sharing that happens you know you don't actually have to sell that many of them right you know and you know you still benefit from the economies of scale you know that the number of actual unique parts in this thing from a pilot or a ridge line or an odyssey is actually you know comparatively small you know and it's you know the most expensive bits are shared across all of those model lines so you know I think George Peterson and I were talking you know and I figured out based on what the standard capacity of the Honda is Lincoln Alabama plant where they build this thing is you know with the volumes they have for Odyssey Odyssey pilot and rich line that can probably do about 50,000 of these a year and that's probably a pretty reasonable sales target for you know for what they could sell you could probably do about 50,000 passports a year

1:16:19  
yeah I think that's a great number actually you know I think

1:16:25  
especially because I mean this you look and think well what about the CRV I don't at the CRB is something that I would have driven in my 30s you know, like it's just funny like, just psychologically like I want to be in something that is more substantial than that and and arguably more luxurious, although the sports not particularly luxurious but I just feel like I feel like they will be able to sell 50,000 of these with no problem

1:16:53  
yeah I suspect that you know, as they go along, you know, in the second and third model years you know, we'll probably see some some other variants you know, they'll they'll probably tweak the you know what equipment is in each one and maybe there will be you know maybe the touring version you know will get a little more luxurious than it is today you know and maybe Will you know play you know the sport will evolve into something that's a little more off road oriented you know that that has a smaller wheel with a bigger tire package and you know maybe some skid plate as an option for those that i mean but actually want to use it that

1:17:27  
way right I'm still just kind of I'm still confused about okay so if it's not for the family buyer because that's that's it's a to grow

1:17:37  
SUV, I guess an SUV but the the pilot

1:17:42  
Yeah,

1:17:43  
I don't know. Like

1:17:45  
it's, it has significant ground clear.

1:17:48  
Yeah, it doesn't. I'm sure that it's got, you know, skid plate and it's good enough. But I like those get plates. No. Skin plates,

1:17:54  
plates

1:17:57  
like that. That's weird. Like, okay, so the people really want these things for off road that they're not gonna you know, they they'll pick a foreigner because the foreign is a legit SUV like off roader, I don't think they're gonna crush up a passport. So okay, I'm still confused about who it's actually going to attract as a customer. And you'll, you'll find 50,000 of those. Those people I don't doubt but I'm just I just want to see who they are.

1:18:25  
It is it is. It is that person that wants the idea that they can go off road, they may not actually go off road.

1:18:35  
Oh, the Wrangler buyer.

1:18:41  
It is. I mean, it really is for you know, I I see it as somebody who's, who's version of off road is to go to, you know, an Airbnb someplace or to you, you know,

1:18:56  
there is it is talking about there is some towing capacity to

1:19:01  
5000 pounds, right. It's not

1:19:02  
much I mean, that's more than just about anybody's gonna use I think, and I think that's like, that's, that's capacity

1:19:12  
capacity. But, you know, I mean, that's enough to haul a couple of jet skis or, you know, small both snowmobile, right,

1:19:18  
yeah,

1:19:19  
yeah, and again, it's, it's, it's somebody that doesn't need a pilot, but still wants to do some light off roading so you know, it comes there's there's Honda accessories or the adventure pack the with the trailer hitch and harness you've got an urban package with which has a little bit more rugged like front and rear spoilers and such. So they've they're kind of setting it up for that person that is that is has an active life style but doesn't necessarily have a family I guess you know, they want something more rugged than a CRV but they don't want anything like the pilot.

1:19:57  
Right. And, you know, to to to my company. It's about, you know, the wheels and tires that they put on here. And the lack of skid plates. You know, Honda did say that they have worked with their partners at j sport and there is a dealer, there will be a dealer installed accessory package available that that addresses a lot of that course. Because that's, you know,

1:20:17  
that's one thing that Honda and Toyota are both brilliant. And I think they got it from from, like BMW and Mercedes. Like, Oh, yes, you can have that it's dealer installed. And it's extra.

1:20:26  
Yeah.

1:20:29  
Alright. So overall, though, it sounds like it's, it's a positive impression. Yeah, that it left.

1:20:34  
Yeah, you know, and I think I think a big part of what makes it despite the, the tires that are on it, you know, stock I think a big part of what makes it as capable as it is off road is the torque vector and all wheel drive system which mechanically is the same, it's the same hardware that you'll find on accuracy. With super handling all wheel drive on Honda's they call it IV empty for I think intelligent vehicle tracker, IBM for something like that.

1:21:04  
Yeah, but, you know, it's, it's calibrated differently, you know, it's controlled a little bit differently, to make it more, you know, off road capable, as opposed to the more performance oriented setup that's on the accuracy. But it's the same hardware that works really, really well. And, you know, it can adjust the torque front to rear and side to side, you know, and send it where it needs to be. And, you know, even even on some pretty slick surfaces that we drove on, you know, it it's, it put the power down where it needed to be. And, you know, kept it surprisingly stable.

1:21:38  
Yeah, I wasn't crazy about the process to change it from a different modes, it has like sand was sand, snow, mud, and normal and normal. And you It felt clumsy like I would rather much I'd much rather have a knob that you can just go from one to the other that was that was, I think the only thing that I didn't love about it was, and maybe you don't, you don't go from different we we happen to be going because of where we were. And because of the weather, we were literally going from snow to my to sand. And you don't do that very often. But I still, you know, like even in the in the compass that I had a couple weeks ago. As I mentioned earlier, I it was originally in two wheel drive, I was able to throw it very easily into four wheel drive. And then I could have I could have gotten even more aggressive. But it was right there. It was very intuitive. And it was very easy to do in the passport it required going into the menu selecting it, you know, it was you could always tell when we were we were in a lead follow formation, you could always tell the person that was changing the mode because there was a hesitation there, you know, so I

1:22:57  
want you to work it work well, though. I'm sorry. So once you once you switched it, it worked well. I mean, you know, it's just a push button, you just have to push, you know, and wait a second for it to change modes, you know, and toggle through the modes. But yeah, you're right. I agree. I think, you know, a rotary controller, you know, would probably be preferable there.

1:23:18  
Yeah, I would have I would have preferred that personally.

1:23:21  
All right. Well, I mean, once we start to get them out in the fleet, I'll be able to give my completely unvarnished opinion about it.

1:23:30  
I do. I mean, I really do think though, that there, there is room you know, Honda also mentioned that they were losing about 35,000 customers, because they did not have this type of vehicle, which I thought was really interesting that that they didn't have a two row capable all wheel drive vehicle. Apparently, the CR v does not suffice. I so, you know, their competitive intelligence tells them that they are losing their losing customers because they don't have this vehicle. So it'll be very interesting to see if they're able to keep customers in the brand.

1:24:07  
Yeah, well, and I think that's it's a good play for them, especially because they they know how to do the platform sharing pretty well. So, you know, if, even if, if they have designed this program to work at 35,000 units, and they sell 50, they're going to be doing fine. So,

1:24:26  
yes, exactly. And just, I don't think we talked about price at all. So the sport is just under 32,000, which is the base and then you add 2004 wheel drive. And then the bulk of it will be the the XML which goes for 36,000, the touring at 39,000. And then the elite with comes with four wheel drive is just under 44,000. So you know, it's the average vehicles in that $35,000 range. It's a little bit more than that. But But, you know, I think it's still it's, it's still a Honda, you're still getting great reliability, you're getting the Honda Sensing. I think there's a really well equipped vehicles for that price point.

1:25:09  
Yeah. And like like most new Honda's now, the sensing package is standard equipment, so you don't have to pay extra for that,

1:25:16  
which is great. Yeah,

1:25:18  
all right. Do we want to talk about any questions? Or have we let's

1:25:23  
let me just quickly address Howard Katz's question. Okay, he he actually sent me an email the other day,

1:25:32  
they, you know, he had seen some stuff on the new BMW X five x drive 45 he I performance. And then BMW clearly has not given up on their ridiculous nomenclature. But

1:25:48  
but the so this is the new x five plug in hybrid, basically. And they, you know, they haven't got the, you know, all the EPA figures yet for this. And they haven't given a lot of detail on things like battery size, and so on. But, you know, in the press release for this thing, he talked about think getting 2.1 liters per hundred kilometers fuel efficiency, which is about 112 miles per gallon.

1:26:18  
And the the co2 figures like 49 grams per kilometer, it's got a 69 liter fuel tank. And he was trying to Howard was trying to figure out the, the range of this thing. And based just on those numbers, you know, he worked out that, you know, this thing could potentially theoretically have a range of 2047 miles on a single field single tank of fuel on a fully charged battery, which actually is almost certainly not accurate. So, I just wanted to chat talk briefly about kind of how they, how they work these things out, you know, that 2.1 liters per hundred kilometers, that that hundred and 12 month, miles per gallon is actually probably the combined fuel economy figure based on some percentage, you know, a full charge of the battery, which I think they haven't really said specifically. But it sounds like it's about a 30 mile electric range on this thing. So it's probably about a 16 or 18 kilowatt hour battery. And then, you know, so it's, it's based probably on about a 50 or so mile, you know, driving cycle, you know, getting that hundred and 12 miles per gallon. So, 30 miles with no gas, just on the battery, and then the rest on, you know, on the fuel, and so

1:27:44  
real, you know, and what they do with these things. And this is, this is a problem that goes back to when GM launched the original volt back in 2010, you know, they spent a long time going back and forth with EPA, you know, trying to figure out, Okay, so how are we going to help we all let label this thing and, you know, so it was, it was a long time issue with plug in hybrids, trying to figure out what, you know, when we calculate the fuel economy, these things, you know, how are we going to do it, and, you know, EPA ended up doing a bunch of studies and looking at, you know, how, how people actually drive, you know, how far they drive, and so on. And then, based on the, the range, you know, they, they estimated that, in general, you know, in a plug in hybrid people are going to do about roughly two thirds of their miles on electricity, you know, and the rest on gas. And then, so, you know, there's a complicated formula, but that's basically how it works out. So, you know, it's kind of a weighted average, two thirds electric and, and one third gas, you know, for, for a bat, for a plug in hybrid with this kind of range, if it's got a smaller battery, like the previous Gen X five, which only had about 14 miles of range, you know, then that percentage of electricity is going to be a lot smaller, and you're going to use more gas, and, you know, so that that combined figure is going to be a lot different. But realistically, the, the driving range on this thing for one tank of gas and it full charge the battery, it's probably going to be somewhere between five and 600 miles, not 2000 miles.

1:29:18  
That's the address $600 feels like 2000 if you do it in one shot.

1:29:23  
That's depends how much coffee or Yeah,

1:29:25  
well,

1:29:27  
yeah, like realistically have to stop, like, every 202, 50

1:29:33  
Yeah. And, you know, that's, that's kind of why, you know, for ease, you know, you know, kind of, to fit between two and 300 mile range, you know, for most TVs is probably going to be sufficient for everybody, as long as you, you know, for for road trips, as long as you, you know, have access to some reasonably fast charging, you know, and as we get into 150 kilowatt hour charging stations, and, and 350 when the Porsche icon comes up, you're going to be able to charge up, you know, in 15 minutes or less, you know, get mostly a full charge in that time frame, which is, you know, by the time you, you know, go to the bathroom and get another cup of coffee. Yeah, your batteries full again.

1:30:14  
Yeah. That the out each bronze, about 25 minutes for an 80% charge.

1:30:18  
Yeah. And that's. That's 150 kilowatts, I think.

1:30:22  
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I drove that I drove that in Abu Dhabi.

1:30:25  
Oh, did you? Yeah. What would you think of it?

1:30:28  
Well, we can talk about an extra if you want to, but I loved it. I loved it.

1:30:34  
Yeah. Let's, let's come back to that one.

1:30:35  
Okay.

1:30:36  
All right. All right. That's a good, that's a good ending point then. So this has been wheel bearings, 95. So Rebecca, thanks for joining us and sticking it out into the late evening. Thank you. Well, we'll have to play around with recording times just so that we're we're not not killing it.

1:30:57  
But yeah, thanks for thanks for coming on the show. And sort of bringing a different perspective. I think, as the conversation shows, it's a it's a bunch of expertise that that neither Sam nor I possess, and it actually makes things a, you know, an interesting balance to just our our Waldorf and Statler The Muppet Show.

1:31:21  
Thank you for having me on. It was

1:31:23  
a lot of fun. Excellent. Oh yeah. Come back next time and you as well listeners. In the meantime, hit us up and let us know how we're doing and we'll talk to you soon. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai