Sam Abuelsamid  0:00  
Hey everybody, Sam Abuelsamid here. Unfortunately, no Rebecca or Dan this time around. But I had a chance to sit down with Jim Farley, the president of new businesses technology and strategy for Ford Motor Company to talk about mobility, mobility services, and autonomous vehicles and where Ford is going with all this stuff in the next several years. I hope you enjoy it. Jim, you've been in this position now. Leading essentially what is Ford's future business for about six months now?

What what are your first thoughts on you know, being in this role? Especially if you know somebody like you, that's a real car enthusiast. Do you come up in the auto industry? You've spent your entire career in this industry? How, how is this different and what what are your first thoughts on being in this role? 

Jim Farley  0:47  
A couple First of all, Sam, thank you for the opportunity to talk about how how Ford and our industry is changing. I think my first thought is that the disruption is

Like already happening to our industry, at the customer level,

we're seeing very large a very large group of people going from owning a vehicle to using a vehicle from per mile. We're seeing the micro mobility business, like bird line are spin grow exponentially, even in the same city. We're seeing more and more people use connectivity in their vehicle differently. The disruption of our industry in an exciting way is like in full, it's really started now. I would say similar to maybe the first or second generation Prius. When the electrification started to come into our industry, maybe it's like, it feels to me, like the first generation Prius or the Escape Hybrid when some customers started just making different choices.

Sam Abuelsamid  2:02  
So,

you know, the the mobility space for Ford over the last several years has been kind of interesting to watch. You know, they've set up Smart Mobility business, you know, diverse and then later, autonomous vehicles and watching, especially the Smart Mobility business, you know, there's been some interesting experiments, you know, the go bikes, chariot, you know, the spin scooters, and obviously, not all of those have succeeded.

What, what would you say are the big lessons that have been learned as the business unit has gotten got along over the last several years? 

Jim Farley  2:42  
Well, in the last, the last couple months have been here last five plus months. Yeah.

That's exactly the question I was asking. You know, what have we learn and Where we going? And I and I guess what I what I've learned from the team is That it's time to simplify and focus. We had so many different things spun up, which is exactly the right thing to do. But as you said, you know, some of the spaghetti stuck in some of the didn't plus at the same time that customers were changing. And I think where we've landed is a much simpler portfolio mobility that's very different than our competitors. Many of our competitors focused on shared car sharing things like that. And in large scale, our profile and portfolio look completely different. We are in We're number three scooter business. Micro movie I don't even want to call scooter but the micro mobility business and is growing fast and we think it's really important business strategically, and high volume like we are moving lots of people more than half a million customers now or part The spin ecosystem we're in you know 40 plus cities now. And you know we have with this is a high volume customer facing mobility business as far as shared is concerned, or larger format, traditional vehicles, I think go ride health has been really important lesson for us. Because so many of the AV service companies are focused on making money appropriately. I think for for being trying to be the most trusted company. We really believe. Moving people to doctors appointments, especially people who have are disabled is a really cool niche in the market. That's high need like these people. There's a lot of people going to doctor appointments, there's a lot of waste. It's all kind of one off local providers, and we've really found a niche In that, and then the third other than spin and things that go ride is our city solutions. We don't talk about it a lot. But we are seeing a very large increase in cities as a customer. And just remember, we're then, you know, leading commercial vehicle brand in Europe and in the US. So if you're going to move goods into a city, you're probably going to be in a Ford commercial vehicle. So we have an enormous scale that other OEMs don't have for a city. They can talk to one brand and really learn how, how the moving goods businesses coming to life in their city, through through our vehicles, and increasingly through our services, that opportunity work with cities, learn from them, but also sell them services is a third key part of our mobility portfolio. So we've simplified focused on those three areas.

Sam Abuelsamid  6:02  
So going forward, those are the main areas the micro mobility, the city solutions and the non emergency dental transportation or the areas want to focus on

Jim Farley  6:12  
the ability. And, and I I'd say what you're increasingly to see from Ford is a consolidation in a way of our pre AV in AV business. You know what, I'm not going to get into the specifics of what our AV brand and services going to look like the portfolio but just imagine for Ford, we really see those as one entity.

That's portfolio.

Sam Abuelsamid  6:39  
So looking at, you know, the, you know, let's look at City solutions a little bit. was interesting a couple of weeks ago, was an event in Ann Arbor to show off to demonstrate the city insights platform, which I think is an interesting area for an automaker to get into. Yep. Talk a little bit about what you know what Ford is trying to do, you know, because if you look back over the last decade, you know, with the rise of companies like Uber and Lyft, and other modern mobility services, and they've done a lot of conflict between them and cities, and Ford is trying to do this in a very different,

Jim Farley  7:18  
definitely. So, and again, it goes back to kind of our world goes back to our idea of trust. So what we found when we started talking to city about those mobility solutions is that, you know, it's forward 160 year old company, women doing business all over with very large employment. And so people trust the company. And what we're seeing now in Western Europe in the US, especially, is that the congestion has gotten, you know, below 10 miles an hour in most major cities.

It's actually slower than a horse now.

And so we've like we're 100 years Ford kind of got people off the horse. And now we're back to that speed. And as the number one commercial vehicle, brand moving goods into, you can't. If you're a tradesman with a Ford van in London or in Pittsburgh, you can't bring your tools in through public transportation, mass transport. And we've learned this with a slow my car side. Now London, we just saw marquetry close in San Francisco, see 14 Street closing in New York. As the seams closed, they're still people need to move goods in the center of the city, even if you close. So this congestion thing is a big deal. And we really believe that the cities are going to start to monetize access, curb side and start to put up dedicated needed infrastructure for bikes and micro mobility like you're seeing in market and the Market Street change. And what that does is they need to instrument the vehicles, they need to instrument the trips. Because then what you saw is once you instrument you get that data, you can create a much more effective transportation operating system where you manage congestion, you know, emissions access in a very logical way. And we see that coming all together in a system. And what you saw is a simulation of that system. It will happen in different cities at different times. Maybe the, maybe the access gets, you know, done first like you see in London, and then eventually it'll make its way into the curb. And curb will be a space of slot just like in a manufacturing space, where it gets rented out. Just like parking. And so our city Solutions Group is investing heavily in dispatch and routing, as well as some other areas that we think are critical for the cities, because they will build out this new capability. And so

Sam Abuelsamid  10:19  
do you see this as an important part of Ford's business going forward? And it particularly for, you know, for things like the the city insights, you know, for cities to get the most benefit out of it, you want to have as many of the users within the city participating in that feeding into that and so would you open that up to, for example, other automakers or other service providers to, to participate in that?

Jim Farley  10:46  
I think generally, you know, Ford is kind of a open platform type company, we were definitely looking at that way I have always looked at that way because CDs a customer will need to do it that way. It's going to have to be The open multi make for you know, City of London, I guess if you look at Ford's business, we're very different car company vehicle company. And our aspiration mobility, our profile of of the portfolio is really different than other companies. That's probably the main thing I would say. But so much of our business happens in the city. I remember walking around San Francisco last year with one of my colleagues, and they said, We don't sell any vehicles in San Francisco and I said, Okay, we're going to stand this corner. And we're going to count over the next 1010 minutes how many Ford vehicles and they're like, there's a BMW, there's a Mercedes in San Francisco, right? And like, there's no fours I said, Nope. So far, I counted about 10 to 15% market share, because he never counted this super duties, the F series, the transit vans to transit connects, there were those white vans. They didn't even exist in a way that you know, we don't Talk about that. So much of our commercial business happens in a city. And so where Amazon using a transit or any other kind of delivery company or small tradesmen, electricians, plumbers, construction workers, who have a small fleet of four vehicles, how they land in the city is really important for the city and for those businesses, and that's our traditional vehicle business. Then when you look at City solutions in our AV business, it all comes together in the city. Not all of our business. Lot of our, you know, commercial vehicles are sold in rural America, for example, but in Western Europe, and cities, more and more of our transit, especially our van business is happening in the city. And so we when you think of Ford, don't think of like the vehicle businesses over here and the mobility business separate is not how we're looking at it for us because of our users. Commercial Vehicle portfolio. It's like one thing, and having a great relationship with the city as they transform access, curbside, monetizing dedicated lanes for it's very important for us as a spin brand. For a commercial vehicle brand, for AV future business. We need to work together with the cities. And that's exactly what makes spin different. I think if you were to ask, you know, city leaders, how does the spin business feel differently than a burger align? I think they'll say will spin always comes here and doesn't doesn't ask to for a license. They say how can we work together to make sure that we're reducing congestion for the city, the license is a separate thing.

Sam Abuelsamid  13:52  
So shifting the micro mobility a little bit, you know, beyond scooters that you have Today, you know, what? Where do you see that part of the business going over the next five to 10 years?

Jim Farley  14:07  
Well, I think I think micro mobility is really fascinating business for me as a car guy. Because basically, there's huge demand for customers. And the company's used off the shelf product. That was never the form factor was never really ground up defined for the customer. It's almost like for me as a car history buff, it reminds me of 19 oh 405 when the form factors were kind of pretty limited, and they were, in a way kind of just the customers didn't have any choice. In this case, it's different because they're really affordable. So what I what I think what our team feels is that there's going to be lots of form factor evolution will it be an f150 microbial was sure will we see more form factor evolution for example, I was in San Francisco recently. And again, as a car guy and looking through my lens, I'm at a stoplight and I see a privately owned scooter operator and a shared one. The form factors are going exactly the opposite direction. The private customer who now is got excited about moving in the city because of the shared product, but now they're saying you know what, bike kind of too slow. I want my own scooter. They want foldable, super lightweight, with a really low profile helmet. But the shareable is the opposite direction. Because of the business unit economics and the volume, you want there to be very robust, very secure. In many cases heavy because you want the battery lasts a long time. So you're starting to see already customers push the form factor between private and shared in different now think about you know multiple riders whether an increment rather all that's going to come I so I we definitely see the Super Duty of scooters it could be I can't imagine that not happening just like the cars in Oh 506 look completely different than the 20s the 20s you had pickup trucks you had, you know, convertibles for door to door covered vehicles all that happened. But it's not just that. Also people are starting to get more interested in micro mobility. Sorry multimode because the choices are too complex. You know, so I'm a busy person. There's three different micro level choices, they're all in different locations. Then I got you know, different TNCs to take me in a car Then I have different shared options, and mass transportation make it simple for me. I just want to get from here to here. Tell me what choices I have and make it simple for me that that's definitely starting to happen to.

Sam Abuelsamid  17:15  
Is that something that you see, ultimately being DC, the Ford Smart Mobility, getting into building it some sort of aggregator app and platform that ties these various services together. Like there are some out there, you know, free to move and there's others

Jim Farley  17:30  
citymapper there's a lot a lot of great, I think for Ford, we're right now, we're really focused on the customer facing experiences that are physical mobility, like moving people moving goods. And I would say one of the big differences you may find with Ford is our ambition moving goods is just as high as moving people are the industry Seems to focus a lot on moving people appropriately. So, I think for coming from our commercial background, you know, moving goods in from micro mobility all the way to ABS is equally interesting to us because of our background and serving our customers. The strength of four commercial vehicles isn't small, medium sized business. Yes, we have big fleets, like, like u haul. And, and, you know, you can imagine all the big fleets we have, but where we're really different in the commercial space and the vehicle businesses small, medium sized business, and they also need different solutions.

Sam Abuelsamid  18:42  
And that's, you know, I'll come back to that in a minute. We'll get into autonomous and what what's being done there, especially the small medium business, I think, is a very interesting approach that Ford's been taking with the work they've done in Miami. One last note on a micro mobility. Today, you don't manufacture Any of those vehicles that are being used for micro mobility services, that's something you see Ford, at some point getting into manufacturing, manufacturing, micro mobility,

Jim Farley  19:10  
I think if we can add value to the process, sure. But right now we're really focused on the customer facing decisions, which is the form factor evolution to bowl for the unit economics plus the customer. You know, what's really cool about that businesses, when you think through designing a form factor to get people around, you also have to think about it delivering a business, so removable swappable batteries and all those kind of things. Maybe they're good for customers, you put your battery in your backpack and you know you and you always are charged you don't have to worry about it. On the other hand, we have to think about the form factor through both lenses because we're, you know, spin as a number three volume player now, and we want to think through both the unit economics but especially the customer and the form factor has to To deliver both an improvement in both, but I think at this point in time, we're really focused on the customer getting that form factor, right. I think we have a lot of expertise and a lot of curiosity around that. And, and how how the micro mobility play by Ford plays into our AV play as a very important judgment right now manufacturing right now is not the highest priority, but if we add if we could really add a lot of value, both for Ford learning new techniques, but also for the customer and for the business, you know, absolutely.

Sam Abuelsamid  20:41  
Okay. Be open to that. Let's let's just the discussion over to autonomous now. And what's, what's your thoughts on where Ford is with its automated driving program today and you know, the progress that's been made and, and you know, that the timeline that was set up Back in 2016, with the 2021 launch,

Jim Farley  21:02  
so we're still completely committed to having a commercial service available in 2021. We never, we never talked about the scalability of that. And as you know, we've been very conservative relative to other promises you can get on, you know, when when we actually

develop the scale.

And so, I don't have a lot of new news for you, except for a couple things. First of all, we're going to spend more than the 4 billion that we committed to. And there's a lot of reasons for that. But one of the most important is that we're committed to having a customer facing business. And that costs marketing dollars and a lot of software development.

The other thing is that,

you know, the timeframe is about right. But when we get to that scaling of the business, especially now that we're committed to having consumer facing business and goods movement and people. You know, we're not putting pressure on the team to, we want to go as fast as we can. But for example, the commercialization of the sensors, you know, that's a new industry, the supply base for light hours and the compute for the algorithms. that's those are new parts, their new technologies. They've never been commercialized and automotive like applications to last hundreds of thousands of miles, like we're used to. It's difficult this time to handicap when all that's going to get ready. But we're working really hard on it and our mission is super high. But we just don't think it's right for Ford to publish lots of dates to get everyone excited before we really know how everything's going to be commercialized. But we are really committed to coming in 2021 with a commercial service. I think what makes us So the progress, we're making really good product progress on the tech. Argo know is really exciting we have VW is a partner with Argo, and Ford. But Brian and the team are making incredible progress on, you know, the algorithms, the natural driving of the vehicle. And I think we're super excited about the progress that Argo is made. We're also really excited about the development of our vehicle. This is a ground up AV, using all of our commercial experience. And we feel really good about how that vehicles coming together and most importantly, the integration of the driving system and the vehicle. So I would say, really, I think we're, we're right on plan with the tech piece, both the driving and the vehicle and especially the you know, the integration of both. I think the the work were really Excited to do now or in the midst of spinning up is based on the learnings in Miami especially, we have a much better feel for the type of customers and sub segments we want to serve with a customer facing business. Because we learned a lot in Miami, we learned about a life with food delivery, are people willing to come down seven floors to get a pizza out of a self driving car not and you know, I don't want to get go, you know, all the learnings because, you know, this is we're building a business here and we want to make sure we're thoughtful what we say when. But the diversity of our experiments in Miami in terms of the customer facing business, not necessarily the Tech has been very helpful is actually fundamental in scoping what we want the customer facing business to look and feel like and also the tech you know has limitations. Whether speed. And we have to factor that into how we scope those customer facing businesses. So I guess what I would say is great progress on the tech, but we still have a long way to go. And a key piece of the tech is a commercialization of these kind of first time. Technical, you know, parts and systems, along with the self driving system, we definitely need a more we need a regulatory environment beyond a waiver for a couple thousand vehicles. So that's a really big initiative for all of us going into this business. And then I would say we're in the early but important thinking, design thinking on what the who we're going after terms of our customer facing business, and how do we differentiate versus a driven experience? It seems like the industry and I guess maybe new to it, and new Today v. I mean, I'm not totally new I was working on this several years ago, but was so focused on robotaxi kind of generic movement of people. The way we're thinking about is much more precise on the differentiation for subsets of those customers, where we think we can add a lot of value beyond pulling the driver. So pulling the drivers really fascinating. As a human, you can see what's happening with summons mode and tests on all the videos going around. Everyone's you know, as humans relate the car, there's no one in it, it's driving itself. That's very fascinating. But really, from a customer standpoint, you're developing service, you pulled the driver, what's better, that's what we're working on. And that's where we need to make more progress.

Sam Abuelsamid  26:51  
So with the development of a purpose built vehicle, and you've got these two really seems like Kind of distinct areas that you're trying to attack both, you know, delivering carrying passengers but delivering goods. Can you can you do one vehicle that does really well at both of those, you know, or do you have to have basically two separate fleets of vehicles to handle those different tasks.

Jim Farley  27:20  
I wish I could give you all the specifics about the vehicle today, but I'm not but I think this is where Ford's deep knowledge on goods movement and people like it's a big advantage for us. And plus all the lessons in Miami because we you know, this is the kind of less learning that we've been, you know, we but we have a lot of good base to learn from. We think that when you look at humans getting in and out of a self driving vehicle, and you look at the form factor for urban to you know, goods delivery, there is a sweet spot but the vehicle The way it's configured will have to be totally different. And that's one of the things we learned in Miami, we tried to do both in the same vehicle. And we learned that for a lot of applications,

if you want to be highly utilized,

you know, having the same configuration on the interior isn't optimal.

And I'm glad that we tried.

But it's pretty clear to us that these are really different operations.

Sam Abuelsamid  28:36  
So it sounds like what you're saying is that there are or either be two different variations of the vehicle, or you develop something that allows you to quickly shift is one of those. Correct? And can you elaborate a little bit?

Jim Farley  28:53  
I wish I could and I think you're in the right zone. Okay. I think you're in the right because I'm

Sam Abuelsamid  28:58  
guessing, I'm guessing you're pressing will be the latter, you know that you want something that you can quickly reconfigure. Because you don't necessarily want to have distinct not necessarily,

Jim Farley  29:07  
you know, and again, it comes back to this better what is a consumer facing? What is that business going to look like. But if there's enough volume, enough trips, I think you can make the argument for both from a business standpoint. The other thing that's quite interesting to discuss is the upgrade ability of the vehicle. Not just the physical, but the I think that's something that our industry and again, I'm kind of bringing my car, my my 30 years in the car business, to that comment is that we're getting to a point now where we have to really ask ourselves, especially in autonomous mode, how upgradeable vehicle should be if you make it for a 10 year cycle or five year cycle. I'm not talking about you know, The plastic and the or the steel fenders and what it looks like I'm talking about the real functionality in terms of display technology, communications, you know, those those basic things, you could, you know, you could, you can kind of feel that the four moving people or even goods, those businesses kind of move on a consumer electronics pace, not a vehicle development pace. And if that is the case, then moving to autonomy were really big the obvious question, how do you change the vehicle to keep up with consumer electronics?

Sam Abuelsamid  30:43  
So it sounds like you need kind of a fundamentally different architecture than we've traditionally done for vehicles, you know, that we've had for 130 years. You know, design vehicle manufacturers have designed, built and sold vehicles and then forget about it and move on to the next generation. Yeah, and now You're talking about something fundamentally different.

Jim Farley  31:02  
I think what we're, what we learned in Miami and how we've looked at this, you know, exciting future is that at the beginning, we said, well, the vehicle inside needs to be changed a lot because if using 90% of the time for goods delivery or people even in separate case, like your, your, your second scenario, you know, the vehicles getting worn out. And we saw this with our Crown Victoria business, our police business, you know, we have lots of experience watching operators, completely retrofit the vehicle, even though it's only a year old or two years old. But then we started thinking, we missed that enough. You know, if the customers inside or even the goods need to be instrumented, and where they are when they're going to get to where they're going to be. That the technology to sense to, to communicate to display All is going to change a consumer electronics, then maybe it can't be just like the inside, we need to also do a digital version a one and zero, upgrade it. Anyways, I don't want to get into the details because it's, you know, it's very important for the company. But these are the kind of lessons we've learned in Miami by having very diverse use cases.

Lots of different problems to solve.

Sam Abuelsamid  32:31  
And that's, that's one of the interesting things about the approach that Ford has taken, you know, with this project since 2016, is, you know, not not just focusing on that the ride hailing business, but you know, looking at looking at these other use cases and working with different kinds of companies. I mean, you start off with dominoes, and then you know, doing work with Postmates and florists and dog groomers and dry cleaners and so on. De, from working with these various, you know, small and medium sized businesses, do they seem like they're, you know, they really want to adopt the sort of model for for transportation.

Jim Farley  33:15  
Customers are really smart. So they will adopt if it works better for them. And that is in two ways. Is it lower costs? Or is it a better experience? And I think, Well, I know that when I read about the development of the industry, you know, as a car person, it seemed like the low cost pulling the driver was the focus. And I guess, you know, what we're saying is that the better experiences equally. And so the customers they're like, if you give me a better experience, and it's cheaper than what I do today, you know, I don't even have the own asset. Like a florist does a van today. That's great. I'm there. Be open to it. I think the fascination with AV is, you know, I think if you're running a business or you're a person that that will only last a certain while then we'll get used to it.

Sam Abuelsamid  34:14  
One of the the arguments, you know, for, for doing going to AV one of the many arguments for going to AV has been to enable mobility for people who can't drive yet whether they're elderly, disabled young. One of the challenges though, with using ABS for those is those users often may require some assistance. You know, how, how do you reconcile those two different things, you know, if you've got a vehicle that can autonomously go and pick somebody up, but then they need assistance to get in the vehicle or to you know, you know, if they're in a wheelchair and they're taking a trip they need to load their, their suitcase in the vehicle. How do you reconcile those those pieces? Have you figured that out, yet?

Jim Farley  35:01  
So this is a really actually is a really important question. This is a really important topic. Someone driving vehicle isn't so good at helping people in the back. Same good. Same goes for good movement. You can't imagine how much we've learned being commercial vehicle leader, how important it is that doors get open and unlocked and a quick sequence because when you do time in motion studies for an e commerce driver delivery, you know, a lot of they literally do the same thing. 100 times. They unlock, they open this, they go over there, they locked this, they open lock that and over and over and over again. So from our commercial vehicle business, we see these habits and how important it is that the vehicle be digital and be efficient. So to answer your question, you know, Ford is You know, has lots of lessons learned on customers habits, and we're definitely thinking about it in a way you suggest.

Sam Abuelsamid  36:14  
Okay. Yeah. Because you know, with me talk about go ride earlier, you know that being an important part of the mobility business, obviously, it seemed like at some point you want to roll that into the AV, I guess? Or maybe not. Maybe Maybe you want to keep that

Unknown Speaker  36:28  
separate? Well, I think there's probably a

Jim Farley  36:33  
because those customers

will not only be in the urban environment, you know, there's there's other use cases on the highway and other reasons why you would want to drive her but I guess my point is that I can see even as old school car person, I can clearly see a need for a human in a vehicle that isn't driving to help people. I also can easily see electronic version of a person to help you see this clearly already in China with a kind of robotic digital assistant is like a thing it's like a person and it's animated and you know we can easily see I would love my son, you know, we're busy family if my son wants to go to us, you know his soccer practice and my my wife is working you know, we want remote access to him in the car, maybe beyond a phone or we maybe want something in the car making sure everything's good. Not just the camera but something else. So I think your point why no free. What we found in Miami, is that if you really watch people, there's there's certainly use cases where human can add a lot of value. Think about an older person like my dad. Who Who needs a dialysis appointment? And it's really complicated for them to schedule their next one or what their medication would be. You can easily see someone right there

saying, Hi, I'm

Mr. Mrs. Farley. You know, here's where you're going today. Your points can take 45 minutes is what's going to happen. How are your medication while you're there? Do you want me to pick up your medication so that on the trip back we're all set. What do you think is next I've talked to your doctor and appointment we're going to need to do a couple of other tests next week. You know that's that's like a natural assistant. You could easily see for for people who are lucky or lucky enough to be in that situation.

Sam Abuelsamid  38:43  
Okay. To as we got a few minutes left, going back to talked about increasing the the investment and all of this going forward. You know previously announced 4 billion investment how How high do you see that investment going? And what what do you need to invest in, you know, as an investment in the technology investment in the backend platforms?

Jim Farley  39:10  
So, a couple things, first of all, for us, you know, we don't see, you know, dramatically different level spending, but it is, it's trending higher. And the reason is because of the consumer facing business. We we we see groups of customers that could really benefit from AV, some which we talked about today. And that's we have to write software to do the to create those businesses and you have to actually create a consumer brand. That takes more marketing dollars. When we started, the journey was more about spending on the tech and the vehicle. But also, you know, we were going to partner with people who would pull the demand. I think we're increasing mainly interested in and us doing that as well. The vehicle itself, and the sensors, the compute, all of that is, you know, not cheap. And we're at the very early stages of this, you know, we are at the earliest stage of this technology. And so we've learned a lot about the sensor, you know, and the sensors to compute all of that is many cases more expensive than the vehicle itself. And, and so, the cost trend line for those devices, those systems, those components, the software that operates them is, is is expensive.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:44  
So do you see Ford being the you know, or some Ford business unit being the primary operator of these, of these services and fleets going forward as opposed to making them available to others? fleets to operate on Lyft or Uber or that at a really good question.

Jim Farley  41:07  
I think we should get into that another time. Okay, we're a little down the road. That's like a big bet by the company. It's a competitive, but yet we certainly have an ambition to be a customer facing brand.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:20  
Okay. I mean people good. Do you see that the Ford brand being that brand or perhaps some other brand?

Jim Farley  41:27  
I think we we need to give that question a little more time, but we certainly made up our mind.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:34  
Okay. All right. Well, Jim Farley, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.

Jim Farley  41:38  
Thank you very much, Sam.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai