Dan Roth 0:03 This is Wheel Bearings. I'm Dan Roth from Forbes. Sam Abuelsamid 0:07 I'm Sam Abuelsamid from Navigant research. Rebecca Lindland 0:10 I'm Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. Dan Roth 0:12 So we're here for a special episode, or at least a special theme, right? Because we saw the Mustang Mach-E debut, we talked about it on the last episode was just posted, but now we can actually talk about and Sam, you were there at the event that Ford held. And, you know, it looks like it's actually more revolutionary than the original Mustang, the Mustang Mach-E . And, you know, let's set aside the naming controversy for now because I feel like that's generated lots of heat and very little light. And, you know, I want to just start with one interesting tidbit I discovered with all the chatter was that the Mustang brand, not necessarily Ford, but a Ford or Ford Mustang. But just Mustang is actually pretty strong in China. And so I have to imagine that that's one of the things that plays into naming this thing is for maybe eyeing the EV market and China foreign as well. Sam Abuelsamid 1:14 Oh, absolutely. You know, since since 2014, when the current generation Mustang coupe, the S 550. debuted, you know, Mustang has been it, they have expanded it from being a North American model to a global model. It's available in I think, over 130 countries now, and including China and throughout Europe, as well as in other parts of Asia. And, you know, it has gained a lot of traction and, you know, the last several years it's actually being the number one selling scoop globally, beating everything else, you know, and that's, I would say that is absolutely one of the factors that led them to adopt the Mustang name for this thing, you know, you know, Mustang, obviously is an iconic nameplate for Ford. You know that and f150 you know, or F series, you know, are the two strongest brands that they have probably. And that was you know that that kind of drove this whole decision to pivot the whole program. Dan Roth 2:21 Well, you know, it's it's actually really interesting you maybe I should I didn't mean to jump right into facts and figures too. But what do you what do you guys think, Rebecca, you getting your eyes on this? What What do you think of it doesn't live up to Mustang uh, you were a little? You're a little not not so convinced when we last talked? Rebecca Lindland 2:36 Well, I just knew that there was going to be a lot of backlash from consumers and Mustang purists as there always are. But you know, I think it's a I think it's the right strategy. I think it takes advantage as Sam said, Of, really one of their best global nameplates instantly recognizable and it is Expand the sort of it's like a I tried to think of it as more of like a body style and a power train expansion or propulsion expansion of the Mustang lineup. And the reality is, this is where vehicles are going today. They're going to these crossovers, they're going to, you know, I high a more practical utility. And I do I do think, you know, based on what I saw last night at the reveal and what I'm seeing online, I think it looks really nice. I think the proportions of it are really nice. I love the fact that has a big long hood, even though it doesn't need it, you know, for the engine. I think you did a nice job. They really honored that the Mustang nameplate, I think that you know the fact that it gets 100 or 300 miles of range is fantastic. The some of the stats on it, the zero to 60 Mark, you know, I love the fact that They brought out the GT performance right away. You know, I think that they really did a good job of, of, of being a good steward of the brand, which we talked about a lot on this show. And, you know, we've talked about other brands that maybe aren't as good stewards of the four really honored honored the Mustang nameplate. Maybe not in the way some people think of it, but some people need to expand their view. Dan Roth 4:25 Sam, you had a really interesting sort of deep dive on Forbes about the the marquee and you noted that initially, this was supposed to be kind of a layup in a discourse in points and met It was probably before it actually had the name Mustang machi. But as part of Ford's electric vehicle and electrification program, back in 2017, it was a compliance car and it's switched from that kind of, you know, they'll use the basketball metaphor that it's switched from a layup to a full court. Which is the kind of all encompassing strategy that wins entire championships and Jim Hackett is really getting credit for that with the formation of team medicine. Sam Abuelsamid 5:11 I'm not familiar with the sports ball metaphors that you keep referencing. I'll try to play along. Yeah. So, you know, for anyone that didn't read my 4500 word treatise on now, Dan Roth 5:25 yeah, you should take Sam Abuelsamid 5:28 the, the just, you know, a little bit of background, you know, for, like every other automaker especially Yes, but at least every other volume automaker is, has been required to sell a certain number of plugin vehicles in California and other states as well as in other markets, you know, to comply with regulations, you know, others trying to shift to zero emission vehicles. And, you know, they, for several years, they offered the Focus Electric, which was totally a compliance car, you know, and it was, you know, very much not about optimized for the task, you know, it was a car that was not designed to be electric to begin with. And they, you know, they managed to stuff a bunch of batteries in there at a at a motor to make it an electric, but it didn't have particularly good range, and it was expensive. And, you know, 2016, they were working on, you know, a replacement for that next generation, which was, you know, a front wheel drive crossover. And for all intents and purposes, you know, you could think of it you know, essentially as kind of an electric escape, you know, it's a little bit larger than escape, but not not by a whole lot. But it was effectively an electric escape. And when in January is 2017, when Jim Mark Fields, then CEO Ford announced that they were going to produce a 300 mile electric crossover. That was the vehicle he was talking about. A few months later when Jim hack when he was fired, and Jim Hackett was brought in as CEO. You know, part of what happened The month following hacket, you know, coming into CEO was they went through and completely reevaluate all the product programs at Ford. And one of the things that was decided between Hackett and, and the rest of the leadership team, including Jim Farley was that, you know, rather than doing another compliance car, you know, even though this was going to be a purpose built TV, it was still very much, you know, something that they they were doing because they had to do, you know, they decided that they, they needed to do something else, something completely different that was actually going to excite consumers, you know, and actually get them to want to own an electric Ford rather than Ford having to push it on consumers. And, you know, they formed team Madison, you know, which was, you know, this team that was set up to look at, you know, product planning and marketing and business models around electrification, what are the things that Ford would have to do to really be successful in electrification, and so, the basically started from scratch, you know, they use some of the, some of the hardware, some of the, the technology that they developed, but they completely reconfigured It started with a whole new vehicle. And it was really Farley that pushed for the, the use of the Mustang name, you know, and the reason for that is that he wanted, he wanted to inspire the team, but also to inspire customers. And he felt that if, if we're going to call this thing a Mustang, then it has to be like a Mustang, it has to have the attributes the driving dynamics and, and performance of a Mustang and some of the looks of a Mustang. Otherwise, there's no point in calling it that you know, unless you do in fact want to destroy the brand. And yes, so they pulled together a team and they started over again, they went from a front wheel drive crossover to a rear wheel drive, all wheel drive machine that was really targeted more for performance, you know, they stretch the wheel base, they completely changed the design. And, you know, they, Dave Pericak, who was the former chief engineer, for Mustang, and then after that he was the director of work performance and lead the lead Ford GT program, you know, going back to the moms and winning with the GT. You know, he's now the director of icons, the icon vehicles at Ford. And, you know, icons include Mustang Bronco, Raptor. And now the machi. And we talked, talked earlier this summer with Amy Moran tech, about the whole icons group. And on Friday, I had a chance to sit down with Dave for a few minutes and talk about what what he saw the need, you know, what, what it what was it? What did he feel it was required to make this vehicle be a Mustang. And you know, if you want we can drop that in here, Dan, and then we can pick up the conversation after that. Dan Roth 9:58 Sure. Absolutely. Let's go to your interview with Dan Pericak, a Sam Abuelsamid 10:05 director of icons, and got a long history with Mustang. And, you know, this is this is the first really all new product as part of the icons group I talked to Amy rentec a few months ago about, you know what the icons things all about? Yeah. And now you're adding something completely different icons, you got a Mustang? Well, I mean, it's not a traditional Mustang Mustang. Yeah. What? You know, from your perspective, you've been part of Mustang for so long has been part of you for so long. Yeah. What is what did you want to achieve with this vehicle to really make it a Mustang? Sure. Dave Pericak 10:45 Well, I mean, number one, I'm really excited to have the opportunity to actually bring an all new Mustang and in the lineup, right, because this is something that as we look at the future of the brand, this is going to be critical to us being here another 55 years from now, right. So but to make it truly a much Staying, it's driving dynamics had to be just no compromise had to be right. And so we made a lot of a change in the program. I mean, you'll hear a story of when I went down to the simulator, and the team thought they were done. I drove it. And I came out and I looked at him, I said, No way, this is not a Mustang. And we spent the next month or more, you know, adding bracing to stiffen up the body changing bushings. I mean, we were doing all kinds of stuff, because it just didn't have the driving dynamics that it needed to have. And so, first and foremost, it had to drive and feel like a Mustang. And the cool part about it is, and this is where I get excited about it is when you add that instantaneous torque to that awesome, you know, driving dynamics as you would expect out of a Mustang. It's just magic and because he doesn't want his DNA story, and so what we've been able to achieve and so that's it's magical when all those things happening come together, right. So we made a lot of change. And I mean, I'll tell you, we changed tire tires, we changed suspension, you know, we added Magna ride to the GT, we lowered the GT, we changed the steering tuning, I don't you name it, everything sort of got revamped when we pivoted the program and said we're going to make a Mustang. And so what I was looking to achieve was bringing that legendary musting performance, feel the whole thing and bringing it in a new way, bringing in a totally different silhouette and bringing it into his taste. Tork world that we have with electrification is amazing. Sam Abuelsamid 12:32 Mustangs all has been a rear wheel drive coupe, convertible, yep. described, you know, what, what you're looking for in terms of Dave Pericak 12:40 driving dynamics and something that's called a Mustang. Yeah. So I mean, what you're looking for is you're looking for the, the, the acceleration has to be there when you want it. So especially as you set the car up in the corners, right. One of the things that a Mustang is really magical about is you know, you've been driving long enough is as you're going through turns and corners is you can Set that you've set it up in the corner. And then when you rock it out of the other side of the corner with that, right, she's grip, she's, it's almost like it's on rails, and you got that instant acceleration coming out of there and all of its connected together, the biggest thing about a Mustang is all of the systems work together to just give you a driving experience that you can't get anywhere else. So, again, that all that transfers into this view. Sam Abuelsamid 13:22 So what did it take to make? First of all, an all wheel drive vehicle that is significantly taller, Mustang and, and larger, larger footprint? What did it take to make a vehicle that form factor? Feel like, you know, that that's 515 months to take Dave Pericak 13:39 takes quite a bit actually. Because all wheel drive does give you a totally different, you know, driving dynamic, but we're not unfamiliar with how to make an all wheel drive version of a performance. We have a look at the Focus RS, right. I mean, I think it's amazing. We learned a lot with that product on how to make all wheel drive do what we wanted to do from a performance perspective. So the same team that does those types of products. We're working on this One as well. And so we know all the tricks of the trade in order to make the overdrive system perform so that you don't you know, the front end and rerender working 100% harmonious together, Sam Abuelsamid 14:10 you get three different configurations of rear wheel drive a front drive with us, or at all sorry, all wheel drive with a smaller motor and then the dual motor configuration, the same motor front rear. Yeah. You know, obviously the the ones with either just the rear or the larger rear, they're probably going to have more of that kind of rear bias kind of feel that more like a traditional Mustang. Yeah. And did you try to emulate some of that with the GT? You know, in terms of the way it behaves, you know, maybe make it be able to do a little power oversteer, things like that or drifting Dave Pericak 14:47 Yeah, those are all the characteristics that you would expect to have right. Mustangs are known not to have too much understeer, but have just the right amount of modern Mustangs Yeah, modern Mustangs and the backend, you know, you want to be able to Rotate that vehicle. And so that was one of the things that as we worked on the all wheel drive system, all the versions of it, when I was in a simulator, even on the track just recently, it's getting that proper rotation of that rear end coming around, especially in an STD is is not an easy task, but we know how to do it. You know, there's all kinds of tricks that we that we that we play, but yeah, you want that feel that you're that you would expect of being able to rotate that vehicle when you want to be able to get that rear end to go where you want it to go. Point shoot that front end, tuck it into the corners, and she does all what's the what's the suspension architecture of the hockey? It's your coil suspension, that means struts in the frog Sam Abuelsamid 15:39 multi like in the air, is it is it an integral link like the other Mustangs or is it a different kind of it's a Dave Pericak 15:46 different kind of, okay. Sam Abuelsamid 15:48 What in terms of steering, you know, what have you done with steering to make this you feel like what you expect a Mustang to do? Dave Pericak 15:57 Yeah, I mean, since typical same people that would Mustang steering is also tuned this vehicle here. So we have, you know, with the EZ Pass systems, we have all the ability to change all the different levers to be able to make it perform that we want to perform. So you'll see that the steering is progressive, depending on the drive modes that you're that you're in and that you're using. But it's typical would you expect is that you're going to get that more of a point and shoot kind of a staring, so it's not. It's not twitchy or or overly aggressive. But it is very linear and very accurate. So I always say it's pointing shooting Mustang, right, but we want to go. Sam Abuelsamid 16:29 You mentioned the simulator that before performance simulator down in North Carolina, you talk a little bit more about that and the capabilities that that has, what that allows you to do, Dave Pericak 16:39 yeah, simulator is amazing. We started that many years ago when I was actually leading for performance. And the technology was good, but I wouldn't say it was great. But what we did was through the use of it with our GT racing program and our NASCAR racing program, we've been able to take that technology to a level that is absolutely amazing. Now I mean are you won't get NASCAR drivers on it every day of the week. If it doesn't, if it's not good, it's not real, right? And we learned a lot about how to make that that system. And you it is so accurate now that we go down there and we can change setups on the fly, right? Change springs change shocks change bushings change tires. And it just you can try a million iterations and decide what you like and don't like and how it and how it works. And when I went down and drove this one, it is so accurate that just by changing the tires, I could tell, you know, it was like a blind test for me, right? And they would make a change. And I'd come Oh, I think you just changed the tires. Yeah, we did. And you know, we talked about that. So the technology is truly amazing. And what we have proven now in a couple different programs. We haven't used it a little bit on the GT 500. This was the first program we've used it really from start to finish what we did what we determined in the simulator, and when we build the first prototype, that translation is extremely accurate. So what we drove in a simulator we get in mind the actual physical vehicle. It's it's like Yep, I just I just drove this I've done it. So I did Back to back with the GT 500. At at VR Raceway, so drove it in the simulator said, Yep, flew right down the next day right down to VR and drove into the real car. Absolutely was identical to what I was in the simulator. So that translation is amazing, cuts out a lot of costs and cuts out a lot of time for us as we develop these problems. Sam Abuelsamid 18:22 One of the things that Mustang fans have always appreciated is the sound of the car, especially in VA Form. Dave Pericak 18:27 And Sam Abuelsamid 18:28 obviously, in an EV, that's not something that you're going to have. What did what was the goal in terms of creating a soundtrack for the monitors? Dave Pericak 18:38 Yeah, so obviously, the sound of the Mustang is part of the visual experience right as we call it on the on the V a Mustang it's it's mating call, right? So when we took this project on, we knew that sound was going to be really important to the overall driving experience. But clearly, this is doesn't have to be Aiden and it doesn't you know, so you don't try to mimic something that would be completely unrealistic and not Authentic Mustang is all about being authentic. But you do have Nev and ease don't make a lot of noise. So you do have the drive system, which does produce some sound, right? And so we've enhanced that sound, where appropriate, but then we had to figure out what should this sound like? What would a if you try to imagine a Mustang as an electric vehicle, what would it sound like? Because I'll tell you what watching a movie without sound is kind of boring, right? Well, it's no different here. I mean, you don't want to go out and have fun driving a Mustang and not have any sound. So we spent a lot of time to figure out what should that sound be everything from the Jetsons to you know, I mean, you name it, right. We're Star Trek, he sounds to you name it. And at the end of the day, we came up with a, with a sound that we felt was Mustang like, but again, not trying to simulate anything that we've had the past not trying to simulate, or anything like that, but wanting to give you that exciting, exhilarating feel, as you as you accelerate, and we feel that we've we've hit it was many, many hours of agonizing and going back and forth and questioning ourselves and questioning each other and but at the end of the day, I think We ended up with is pretty cool. Unknown Speaker 20:02 So what are you gonna have in your garage grabber blue gt? Dave Pericak 20:06 It would be a GT for sure. I will wait for the GT gap. I don't know, you know what the car looks great and white looks great and graeber blue. But I'll tell you, I'm excited to drive this, you know, out on the streets. I mean, I've had on tracks I've had it. But I just can't wait. I mean, it's really fun. I mean, I had a whole carload of people the other day out on the track in it, and we were just having a blast. Sam Abuelsamid 20:24 Yeah, what was impressive on the short drive we had so Dave Pericak 20:27 Alright, thank you very much. Thank you. Dan Roth 20:30 So you know, I'm just kind of struck by the decision to not create any more compliance cars, you know, that's what this feels like to me. Is Ford saying, No, we're going to do a strategy that takes investment and risk now which is maybe uncomfortable, but we're going to avoid scrambling in the future. Because you know, cars, cars are reactive business and this looks to me like Ford's trying to avoid having to Take EV seriously in the future by taking them seriously now? Sam Abuelsamid 21:06 Yeah, I would I would agree with that to a point. But it is also there is some reactivity to it, because I think, you know, kind of the short answer to what Ford has done is they've essentially looked at the only carton, the only company that has been successful in terms of, you know, selling DVDs to consumers, even though the business has not been successful. But you know, getting consumers to watch TVs is Tesla. And they basically took all the best parts of the Tesla playbook, and combine that with hopefully, you know, with what are the areas of Ford strengthen manufacturing and design and development and customer support, and, you know, meld that into this vehicle. Rebecca Lindland 21:45 One of the things that Tesla has really shown us is what consumers want when they look at adopting electric vehicles. And we have to still remember that even though there's a lot more electric vehicles coming out, we are still dealing with the very, very beginning of the technology adoption curve, because we're still looking at new car sales in that like, one to 2% range. And it's not as if we're getting an overwhelming number of people saying, Well, I would buy this, I buy, you know, it doesn't fit my lifestyle or something, because we're getting a lot more types of vehicles. We still are looking at appealing to innovators, which tend to have either very risk oriented, they're tend, they tend to have good financial liquidity. You know, they're, they're the people. They're the first ones to buy things. But they're also only about two and a half percent of the market themselves. So there's not very many innovator mindsets. And so I think what Ford has done with especially with bringing out that GT, is to say we understand the people That are buying electric vehicles right now we understand the need to appeal to them, to have this iconic nameplate attached to it. And then to also say, but we also understand that you have a family or that you have a practical need for this product. And, and that's why, you know, the crossover comes into play, especially both rear wheel drive an all wheel drive, it really just checks off a lot of boxes, and it overcomes a lot of barriers that people put up. Now, with that being said, I do still think that we we continue to fight against that idea that this electric vehicle isn't better than internal combustion engine. And that's a discussion that needs to be had. How do you know as long as there's a choice, consumers will continue to choose internal combustion engine that they're familiar with the doesn't have perceived risk that doesn't have that cool range anxiety that doesn't need charging, which, you know, I've talked about the inconvenience of that can be at times. So, you know, I don't think that we're going to see electric vehicles take over the world as long as we still have internal combustion engines as a choice. But I think that the machi is a really, really good step forward, especially for a traditional manufacturer like Ford. Dan Roth 24:31 It doesn't advance the I think the state of the art the interesting thing to me that stuck out to was among the interesting things was that they're saying that it's going to be profitable from job one. And if there's anything we've seen with the fees is that they are not profitable. So that's really, that makes me wonder, okay. At what volume is that going to Rebecca Lindland 24:55 be? Sam, you had some good background on that, didn't you? Sam Abuelsamid 24:58 Yeah. So you know, for, you know, as most manufacturers, they don't like to talk about what their sales targets are any of this stuff. But, you know, based on, you know, where this vehicle is in the market, and the price point, it's, you know, it seems reasonable, I think, I think a reasonable forecast of, you know, kind of what the sales prospects are for this particular model is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of about 40 to 50,000 units annually on a global basis. And, you know, when I, when I threw that number out there, you know, nobody from forward, you know, really seemed to flinch very much, you know, I think they would be happy with more, but I think that that's, you know, that that's a reasonable number. And, you know, talking last night to how Ty Tang, the head of product development at at Ford we talked about the the plant where this this vehicle is being built. It's an acquired lon Mexico, it's just a plant where they had previously built the Fiesta and they have now ended Fiesta production there and there They're retooling that whole plan. And they went back again, going back to January of 2017. When fields first announced this, the plan was to build that compliance Ed and flat rock, Michigan alongside the existing Mustang. And, you know, now what they're doing is they are retooling an entire plant, you know, it's got, it has previously had capacity for, you know, upwards of 250,000 vehicles a year. And it's going to be building exclusively V's. So, you know, this is just the first step for Ford. We already know two other electric vehicles that they have coming the f150 Electric, which will come along in 2021, and also from the UAW contract and electric version of the transit van. But there's still at least three more that are coming in the next couple of years. And, you know, what, Neil? There's been some recent rumors that you know, we'll see a mid sized SUV from from Ford and Lincoln which could potentially be a replacement for Current edge and Nautilus, or, or could be a different model entirely. You know, and then, you know, the Lincoln MKZ is also coming near the end of its lifespan. So we'll probably see a Lincoln model that is, you know, similar to this, but you know, what they're doing is third, they're preparing to sell a lot of East. And this particular one, you know, because of its price point, you know, it should be relatively, you know, it should be certainly at least breakeven, I think, in the in the near term, and then potentially profitable, maybe not as high margin as some other vehicles, but it should, it definitely has potential to be profitable, especially when you look at models like the GT version, you know, which are going to be up in the 6560 to $65,000 price range. And that how Ty Tang mentioned is that there's going to be, you know, because this is mechanically simpler vehicle, and they've done a lot of things, you know, with the new architecture, this thing to simplify, there's going to be 25% less labor, and put into this vehicle. So there, I think there there definitely is potential for profitability here. Dan Roth 28:07 potential. Yeah, I mean, Unknown Speaker 28:11 look, I Sam Abuelsamid 28:12 think the thing about the thing about profits is, you know, it's, it's all a, you always have to take, you know, the things you hear with a huge chunk of salt, you know, and, you know, it's a matter of, you know, what you're including in that cost, you know, what, what expenses, you know, what r&d expenses and so on? Are you advertising into that? The cost of that, you know, indicate in this case here, you know, the cost of developing an electric power train is electric skateboard system, the battery system, you know, are they advertising that just over the cost of this vehicle, or over the cost of all the vehicles that are going to come at aquatic lon, you know, if it's the latter, which I think is more likely than, you know, I think it's it's not unreasonable, and you know, the with the way battery prices have been trending downwards, I think is definitely doable. Rebecca Lindland 29:01 And how do you know how long or how many? What volume they have left on the 70 $500? tax credit? Sam Abuelsamid 29:09 So, right now, estimate, you know, by the end of 2019, they will be at about 120,000 units sold of plugging vehicles. So next month. Yeah, but by the end, by the end of by the end of December, there'll be roughly 120,000. So we have about another 80,000. Okay, before the phase in period starts. Yeah. And through, you know, the first part of next year, you know, they'll still have the fusion plug in hybrid, the fusion energy, but they're also adding The Aviator Grand Touring, and the the Coursera Grand Touring plug in hybrids. And then in the fall, you have the the machi coming. So, the estimate is that somewhere, probably towards the end of the first half of 2021. They'll hit that 200,000 threshold and Then at that point they have another quarter to sell an unlimited number and then they start to phase out. So probably, you know by the end of September October of 2021 is probably when you'll see the the tax breaks cut in half for Ford. Rebecca Lindland 30:18 Do you think that they would I scale back a little bit on some of those other plug in hybrid models in order to save some for the machi? Unknown Speaker 30:30 No, I don't think so. Let me just get back the nuts Yeah. Well, actually Rebecca Lindland 30:35 but I mean, if they can strange Sam Abuelsamid 30:37 energy is actually solving surprisingly well. It's actually a, you know, the Fusion Hybrid and the fusion energy are actually a pretty significant proportion of sales of fusion sales that are you know, they're still there. Dan Roth 30:50 But what are you seeing Rebecca constraining, supply like, Are you talking about sort of the idea of inducing demand? Rebecca Lindland 30:59 Well, no, I'm talking about preserving some of their tax credit for the machi, so that when it comes out Now, again, these are early adopter people who are, you know, won't necessarily care. But it's just a nice, it's another incentive to have, you know, to be able to say, Hey, you know, the first 30,000 are, you know, are still eligible? It's just a thought, just a strategy that Sam Abuelsamid 31:29 Yeah, you know, I think for I would say, you know, for roughly the first year machi production, you know, anybody who buys one in the first 12 months or so, will will be able to get the full tax credit. And then for another year after that, you know, they'll still have eligible eligibility for reduced tax credits so we're talking you know, well into 2022 before the Tax Credit goes away entirely for Ford. Rebecca Lindland 31:52 Okay, and I should know this but when it when it started, production Sam Abuelsamid 31:56 should be about August Dan Roth 31:59 20 2010 it's just in time for a mid cycle refresh. So you actually got to take a ride and so that's also what I'm curious about is you know because I think the things that are going to make the machi successful things are going to help it versus hurt at Are you know quality materials the ease of use like with the UI and it appears that for has studied the things that people love about Tesla and including like the over the air updates and the hands free Driver Assist that'll be available at some point and you know what's what's the driving experience like which is another thing that people rave about with their their testers I mean that be the actual physical ride even get to driver but you were in it took it took a spin I rode shotgun Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 32:47 Yeah. So you know the the machi is going to be available in three powertrain configurations. The base model has a 210 kilowatt, electric rear motor and rear wheel drive, the mid range We'll add a 50 kilowatt front motor. So it gives you about 335 horsepower and in the mid range model, and then in the GT, you get the same motor front and rear for a total of 459 horsepower and 630 foot pounds of torque. And that torque as usual electric is instantaneous. So the the prototypes that we wrote in were mid range models, so they were all wheel drive with the smaller front motor, and, you know, they're quick, they're very quick off the line, you know, zero 60 times for this one are, you know about the five second range for the GT, you know, it's going to dip down into the mid threes, so the GT is going to be able to accelerate and times pretty comparable to the Shelby GT 500, which is currently the fastest Mustang production Mustang ever built. So, you know, similar acceleration to a GT 500 you know, as an EV because it's got the battery all in the floor. It's got low center of gravity it, it behaves, you know, it handles quite well, we went through a slalom course, you know, and you know, as most TVs do, it stays relatively flat, you know, wasn't wobbling around, which is which is nice. So, and, you know, again, talking, you know, from my conversation with Dave, you know, they've really worked hard on the driving dynamics of this thing. It's got a stripe front suspension, but it's got a new multi link, rear suspension setup. You know, they've done a lot of work on tuning this, you know, to make it handle really well. You know, they really want it to feel like a Mustang. And, you know, on the GT it also has magnified dampers, which will help further, you know, give a good, good balance of ride quality and handling. So, I think, you know, overall, the dynamics, you know, from the quick exposure we had, I think they're, they're definitely on the right track. You know, the interior materials, you know, it's a nice clean design, as you can see from the images, you know, like, like Tesla, they've, you know, got Fairly minimalist, you know, most of most of it concentrated in that 15 and a half inch center display. But unlike the the model three in the model, why there's also a supplementary display right in front of the driver with the vehicle information. So you don't, you don't have to look over the center screen to see your speed and things like that. You get that right in front of you where it belongs. Rebecca Lindland 35:20 So Sam, I before we move, because I want to hear more about the interior, the the ride experience, because you also rode in the Porsche icon. So what was that like? Sam Abuelsamid 35:34 Well, you know, the icon is designed more as a sports car and you know, the four door sports car, it's even lower, you know, it's not a crossover. It's a lower vehicle. You know, it's also a much more expensive vehicle than this one. Right? You know, it's like three times, you know, a tie con Turbo S, you know, it's three times the price of machi GT Rebecca Lindland 35:55 and it was kind of thinking and I apologize, I was also sort of thinking of Just a Tesla and jack, the Model S and the tie con, which I haven't driven them on the models. I did drive in the tie con, but I didn't know, you know, what that comparison was like? Sam Abuelsamid 36:10 Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, because the one we wrote in was not the GT, you know, I think that the performance of the GT is, is probably going to be closer to the tightening up quite a bit closer to the icon, it's going to be, you know, it's in it's closer to the, it's not quite as powerful as the icon turbo, or the Turbo S. But, you know, it's, it's closer to that range. You know, this one, I think, you know, is the one we wrote in, you know, is more in line with what you would get, you know, from a mid range model three or, you know, what, we'll probably see from the model why, you know, and it's it's quick, you know, but I wouldn't I wouldn't even compare it to the, to the icon, but you know, compared to other stuff that's out there like the Jaguar I pace, no D Tron, you know, which I have Driven those, you know, I would say, you know, it's it's at least as good if not better performance, you know, based on bozer. You know, and particularly the, you know, the IPA cielo truly is designed more as a performance vehicle, its current production EBS, you know, the IPAs is probably the closest in a lot of ways in terms of its configuration to the the machi but it's more expensive. And, you know, while I liked the interior, you know, it's, it's more the interior and a lot of ways of the, the eyepiece is more traditional, or at least contemporary Jaguar, whereas, you know, Ford has really gone more future thinking, you know, they really got more the Tesla direction with the machi you know, that minimalist interior, but it is very roomy, you know, it's got room for five, you know, that's the, you know, the wheelbase is 117 inches, you know, so there's plenty of legroom in there. I sat in the back seat with two other adult guys. And you know, well, you know, we're our shoulders were pressed up against each other, it was not uncomfortable, you know, so three, three adults, you know, can sit in the backseat, you know, without without any difficulty and how, Rebecca Lindland 38:14 I'm sorry, how are the materials? Sam Abuelsamid 38:17 So, you know, at this stage, you know, almost a year out from, from availability, you know, it's hard, certainly in the prototypes, it was hard to you can't really judge the materials, you know, because not everything was in finished form. And the display vehicles they had, the materials are really nice, you know, it's it looks like high quality stuff. And one of the things that was interesting that they were talking about was the interior materials of the machi are all going to be completely animal free. So no leathers, but it's, you know, all the seats are, you know, this synthetic leather type material, the seat covering so the no cloth seats in this but it's all Synthetic hides, and you know, it, it looked and felt good, you know, felt like leather. You know, it looked very, very high quality. And, you know, for those that, you know, are concerned about using animal products and vehicles, you know that there's no animal products in there. Now granted, there is still petroleum products in there, you know, the forms do still are, you know, the forms and plastics are still made from petrochemicals. So it's not completely environmentally friendly. But you know, it Ford has also been a leader, you know, for more than a decade and adopting things like soy foam, you know, into their their seat cushions and materials like that. Rebecca Lindland 39:40 Yeah, no, that's I think that's really cool. I think that and as you say, I mean, this is something that bill Ford has spoken about before. He's very, very much an environmentalist and, and I think that's really cool. There's a lot of really, really good fabrics out there. There's a guy that can easily substitute I mean, when you look at somebody products that they use and marine I it's there's plenty of really, really good synthetic leathers out there that can easily be transferred into a vehicle. There's a company called ultra fabric that I actually, I met the CEO and she's really cool. We were on a plane together. And shockingly, we started talking. And so but she's doing a lot more in, in these kinds of synthetic leathers and suites as well that are really, really good. They, they have ultra fabric on the Lexus boat that I was on a couple of Now a couple months ago. That's excellent. And you know, it's it's easy to clean, it's easy to live with. Again, it's sort of practicality and also as we move into shared vehicles, the types of fabric, you know, Sam at that magnet event that we went to a couple weeks ago, they were talking about some different as really, really good fabrics that they are working with as well. So it's definitely an area I've expansion for the for automotive. Sam Abuelsamid 41:03 Yeah, I mean, you know, materials that that look, you know, look good and are durable and are easy to clean are going to be crucially important for those those types of vehicles. And, you know, the the the Ford folks, you know, the color and materials designer who's or internet it out bro boss I think, you know, she talked about the you know, this these materials that they develop and you know, they are in fact significantly more durable than natural leather. You know, but they, you know, they have that nice soft feel to them. And you know, they're easy to clean. So I think I think people will like the interior this vehicle, Rebecca Lindland 41:45 and it was your hard plastics or how was that situation? Sam Abuelsamid 41:48 No, I mean, it was mostly, you know, certainly at least in the areas where you're touching things, you know, those soft touch plastics, but again, I wouldn't, I wouldn't make any judgments at this stage. You know, because is, you know, the things that you see on a vehicle, you know this far out from job one are not necessarily representative. So yeah, let's let's set that comment as a question aside until we've had a chance to have something that's at least closer to a pre production model. Rebecca Lindland 42:16 Sure. screen looks almost out of proportion, that center console screen. Its enormous, huge and it kind of looks like an afterthought. I all I could think of was a Tim Gunn's voice with there's command strips and do no harm like, you know, I think Dan Roth 42:33 I think it's another thing they learned from Tesla and the model three over this screen has a I was really interested in this sort of rotary controller, it's sort of glued to it. Sam Abuelsamid 42:43 Yeah, so you know, terms of the size of the screen, it's actually smaller than the one that's in the Model S and the x which is a 17 inch display. This is 15 and a half inches, which is just slightly larger than what's in the model three and model Why? But you know, like you said, Dan, it you know, they they kind of picked up on some of the the Tesla design ethos there, you know, having kind of floating there in the air, you know, because because there's a touchscreen you don't want it to be too far of a reach when you're when you're trying to use it. But Andy, the other thing is that the you know, you mentioned the knob, you know, it's not an entirely touch interface there, there is a control knob in the bottom center that display. And what's interesting about that is that there's no direct, there's no electrical wire connection between that knob and what's behind it. The knob is actually bonded, bonded to the screen, and then there's a capacitive interface. So when you turn the knob, it's actually as if you were, you know, putting your finger on that same surface behind it and you know, drawing circles on that surface, you know, so it's transferring that capacitive interface from your fingertips to the surface behind the knob on the screen and so that makes it you know, mechanically easier to manufacture it Rebecca Lindland 44:07 What's a capacitive What? Sam Abuelsamid 44:11 It basically it's like it's an electrical interface. Yeah the screens the screen on your on your phone is a capacitive interface capacitive touch interface. So you know Unknown Speaker 44:21 not a flux capacitor no Sam Abuelsamid 44:25 bit basically it just means that you know if you if you've got you know, a living object, you know like your your finger, you know, that's got electrical conductivity, you know, so yet you have to have electrical conductivity to that surface in order to interact with it. So you know, if you you know, if you touch it with your finger or you know, with something else that's conductive like a stylus that has a conductive path, or you know, if you winter gloves if you have gloves that have, you know, little little pads on the finger tips for using your phone, right what those pads are, they typically have little metal fibers in them, that pass that activity from your, from your fingertip to that, that touchscreen surface to make it work. Rebecca Lindland 45:05 Oh, cool. Okay, thank you. Dan Roth 45:07 I do wonder what the flexibility of the human body is. The another, did they talk at all about why they went with oil cooled motors that really stuck out to me too. That's the first time that's, Sam Abuelsamid 45:22 that's what that's what everybody's using is oil cooled motors, oil for the US oil for cooling the motors. And it's I think it's mainly you know, just to, you know, the oil has enough heat capacity to, you know, to act as a coolant for the motors. Rebecca Lindland 45:45 Alright, so, Sam during this the last few days because you've been out there since Thursday now, what has been the biggest positive surprise for you? And what do you think you have the most concerns about? Sam Abuelsamid 45:58 I would say the certainly The biggest concern is just the branding, you know, calling it a Mustang. And certainly, you know, if you go on Twitter and other places, you'll find lots of Mustang fans that are totally outraged at the idea of calling an electric crossover a Mustang. You know, they're just gonna have to get over it. Rebecca Lindland 46:16 Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, Porsche was horrified, you know, people, Porsche people are horrified at the idea of an SUV, and now they buy them like crazy. Dan Roth 46:24 People, Porsche people were horrified by the idea of like, the 356 b versus the A, and it's just gone. Sam Abuelsamid 46:32 Well, you know, I mean, fans and fans in general, you know, tend to go overboard, you know, whatever, whatever they happen to be fans of weather. And we, you know, we certainly know how, you know, Tesla fans can be, you know, but the reality is, you know, I think the thing to remember is that this is not like 1989 when Ford, you know, was planning to replace rear wheel drive Mustang with a front wheel drive four cylinder coupe, you know, based on based on a Mazda 66 You know, at that that car, you know, they ultimately saw the error of their ways there and made that car the probe. And, you know, we saw how that went, you know, this is not replacing traditional Mustangs. In fact, there's a new generation Mustang coming in 2022. So, you know, the traditional Mustang is going to stay with us, this is expanding the brand, you know, and the, you know, the The goal is to retain what makes Mustang special, you know, in terms of the way it drives and the way it looks, you know, in this new form factor and this new propulsion system. One thing that that obviously does change very much is the sound. You know, one of the things that Mustang fans love, you know, especially with the V eights, but even even with engines, like the four cylinder EcoBoost is the way they sound, that performance, that visceral feedback that you get from our way to perform a good performance car sounds and you know, they spend a lot of effort you know, on this one And they're continuing, they're not finished yet, but they've spent effort on you know, how to make this thing sound so that it evokes that feeling of driving a Mustang. And you know, what they've got is that you know, there's actually three different modes in here. There's what they call whisper mode, which is the quiet mode. There's engaged mode, and then there's unbridled mode. And unbridled engaged and engaged is in the, in the middle between the Rebecca Lindland 48:28 horse whisper when I saw that, so I got to it. I know what the better one for that. Sam Abuelsamid 48:34 But the the unbridled mode is the loudest and it could potentially be even, you know, by the time their turn production could be even louder. But, you know, what they did was they tried the Their goal was to try to create something authentic. That sounds like Mustang but also, you know, evokes the fact that it's, it's electric. It's something different, you know, so it's got, you know, a bit of a rumble to it. You know, it doesn't sound like a big Mustang v You know, but you know, it's got something that evokes that performance feel to it that visceral feel. And, you know, I think they're, they're pretty close at, you know, and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, you know, they offer an opportunity to buy different sounds for just as Porsche is doing with the tie con, you know, and have have some different sound options. But I think that this one is is, you know, is on the right track to being a good start, you know, because, obviously, anything you do in an EV is going to be synthetic and authenticity is, you know, there's limits on what, you know, what you can call authentic and an EV. But I think they're, they're moving in the right direction. You know, I just Dan Roth 49:41 really I read that and I hope that they relent and offer some of us an off position. I don't want any fake sounds, not because they're not exciting. It's just, I just want to shut it off. I don't need any more noise. Sam Abuelsamid 49:56 Well, that's nice for you. Dan Roth 50:00 But I didn't notice it, and it will annoy me. I wanted Rebecca Lindland 50:07 what was the thing that was like the most delightful, like, what what were you most surprised about? Dan Roth 50:16 talking to us about it, Rebecca Lindland 50:18 take your engineering hat for a second. Sam Abuelsamid 50:21 You know, just how they were. Yeah, I think I would say that, you know, more, more so than the vehicle itself, you know, kind of the real shift in the way they're doing this. You know, it's, it's a real transformation, or at least it appears to be from the outside a real transformation of how they're doing product development. You know, I mean, in the span of, you know, three or four months after Jim Hackett came in, you know, they completely revamped this, you know, and they've gone from basically from scratch, doing an all new vehicle, you know, in roughly 24 months, you know, to from where we are today to when they started. When they made the decision and started down this path, you know, it's about two years. And, you know, we're about 10 months out from job one. So that is a remarkably short period of time. And, you know, I think that they've, you know, that just the fact that they, they decided on a path that they wanted to go, you know, that they wanted this to be a performance vehicle, you know, that really excited people, and they've stuck to that vision of what they want this vehicle to be. And to, to the degree that we can judge it at this stage, you know, with the minimal exposure we've had to it. It seems like they have largely succeeded at that, you know, it's it's got a look that I think, you know, if you're going to make a Mustang SUV, you know, I think it's got the right look for that. You know, personally, I'm not a big fan of having touch screens and cars, as you well know. But you I think that what they've done what they've done so far, you know, they seem to have executed on it very well. Now, all that said, you know, going forward, you know, when you today, you know, when you look at, you know, trying to make decision, you know, do you want to buy a model wire Maki or something else, you know, the the st you know, for took that Tesla playbook of what is it about Tesla's that make people want to own them. And they've largely applied that to this vehicle. And where, you know, a company like Ford has a potential advantages in that, all that other traditional stuff of actually building the vehicle and managing supply chains and getting vehicles to customers and supporting them and providing service parts and all that stuff. And, you know, those are the things that really separate Ford from Tesla at this stage because the vehicle itself is not radically different from what Tesla is doing with the model why, you know, in terms of the way it's architected So, So, you know, if Ford is going to succeed, they have to execute on all the stuff that they're already supposed to be good at perfectly, they have to have a clean, smooth launch with this thing, which means that they can't have the kind of screw up they had with the Explorer launch this year. They have to do it right from job one. And if they can do that, I think that they can be successful. And I think that, you know, with what they're doing, I think they're really demonstrating to the world that yes, we are really serious about this electrification thing we want to transform both the kinds of vehicles we build and the way we do business. And if they can execute on that, you know, the rest of the way through to production, then I think, you know, it really shows that, yeah, they have changed, you know, that they have done something. They've made some fundamental changes in their business. Rebecca Lindland 53:51 How many do you have any read at all on how many deposits they've taken? Sam Abuelsamid 53:55 No, not yet. They haven't shared any information with us, Twitter. Dan Roth 54:00 Made deposits though people are making deposits on the car. Rebecca Lindland 54:03 Yeah, well, my friend bought Robbie, I, he did some analytics last night. And it was about 70% positive response immediately after the streaming launch. And so I just didn't know if there was any I haven't contacted him today to see if there's an update to that. But it was overwhelmingly positive at that point. But of course, Money Talks. Sam Abuelsamid 54:28 Well, I was I was I was standing with Alex Roy last night when they unveiled the car when he saw it for the first time in person. And, you know, if you saw his tweets, you know, you know, he's, he thought it looked effin great. Yeah, so Rebecca Lindland 54:45 I mean, he Yeah, Alex actually just put up something on Twitter as well showing both the model y and and the marquee and I think that they do look very, very similar. There's fine differences. I noticed the marquee definitely has a longer hood that dash to axle dimension or measurement is definitely longer and that gives it a little bit more proportional appeal for me that's a, that's a big thing that I look at and I like the greenhouse a little bit more as a higher beltline. The Maki does, but it's there it's incredibly similar, right? Dan Roth 55:20 I think that so it's really, really clever design that Ford has done on the marquee because when you look at it and you remove the color, like if you were to look at it in grayscale or some other high contrast format, you'd really see the true shape of of the machi. And they they showed it in an environment last night that really puts it in its best light, I think because the shape of it fools your eye, they use black trim, both the roof and the rockers to shape the colored area and the color is what you're you're sort of most immediately going to notice The shape of that really does look like a coupe. And it works fantastically well. Sam Abuelsamid 56:07 Yeah, I think I think that's one of the keys to the success of this design. Yeah. You know, if you look at the model y, and to me, you know, like the x, it looks kind of bloated. You know, it looks a little bit too tall, it's got kind of weird proportions. Where as the the machi, you know, they visually hid some of what they didn't roofline, because, you know, in order to make the, the backseat, you know, actually usable, and, you know, have enough headroom for adults to sit back there and there's plenty of leg room, but it's also got plenty of headroom, you know, to to achieve that, you know, the roofline actually extends back horizontally a little bit more and goes into that ends in that spoiler above the rear wing or above the rear glass, but then the, you know, part of that you know, at the Bat you know, so they and then the body color, you know the frame around the window. slopes down, you know, to kind of emulate that fastback look you have on the Mustang coupe, you know, and then you know that that extended roof part is done in contrast in black that kind of visually hides it. And, you know, creates that coupe like impression without the actual compromise of, you know, actually doing that profile all the way down. Rebecca Lindland 57:22 Yeah, well, it's sort of, you know, it's cosmetic. And yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 57:26 I mean, that's, that's what design is, you know, exactly right. Let's go. It's both cosmetic and functional. It's like, how do you how do you make something functional? That looks good, you know, and, you know, that's, I think that they've succeeded. Rebecca Lindland 57:39 Yeah, I think it looks really nice. Dan Roth 57:41 Well, I think we should wrap it up, but it's really probably the most exciting day of all of 2019 for Ford released the marquee and we'll see where it goes. But, you know, I like to hear from our listeners to what their thoughts are, whether they're my purus or whether they think that, you know, the only constant is changed and we should just get over it and deal with it. Less for it become another Studebaker. And yeah, so let us know what you think. And I'm sure we'll be back on the Mustang lock the beat the next episode as well. Sam Abuelsamid 58:19 Yeah, we're talking about this for at least the next year. Rebecca Lindland 58:22 Yeah. And don't forget to to, you can follow us on twitter now, at tweet car reviews, and we'll be having some comments on there as well. Dan Roth 58:29 Oh, alright. Sounds like you can say we'll let you take over the account. Rebecca Lindland 58:35 We're getting followers. I know it's, it's Dan Roth 58:37 super fun. It's I really enjoy the cars in that format. I think it's nice and immediate. So Rebecca Lindland 58:43 ya know, it's fantastic. So, all right. Sam Abuelsamid 58:47 All right. I'll see you all next time. Thanks. Transcribed by https://otter.ai