Dan Roth  0:03  
This is Wheel Bearings. Dan Roth from Forbes. 

Sam Abuelsamid  0:07  
I'm Sam Abuelsamid from Navigant research. 

Rebecca Lindland  0:10  
And I'm Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. 

Dan Roth  0:13  
And all three of us are also now from a car review tweets. Yeah, that's right. Twitter car reviews. And Rebecca, I know that you have Rebecca drives, which is kind of the same thing. 

Sam Abuelsamid  0:25  
So Rebecca drives is practically verbose compared to car review tweets, that's

Rebecca Lindland  0:33  
200 words.

tweets is 280 characters. That's awesome. 

Dan Roth  0:39  
Yep, it's a it's a place you can find us I set it up. And you know, Sam, I know you used to, but the idea is that it gets that really quick sort of impressions. We, you know, certainly shooting video and photos and uploading our thoughts on mobile. So it should be something that we keep updated on our

pretty regular basis when we get cars we go to events.

Rebecca Lindland  1:03  
Yeah, I'll be I'll be contributing I just I've been so slammed the last four weeks. And so I took yesterday and today off.

Dan Roth  1:10  
Yeah, well, we'll have to get the W nine in the contract out to us.

Rebecca Lindland  1:15  
But no, I'll be using it for sure. Because it plays in really nicely. with Rebecca drives. I mean, it's the same. It's the same concept of, of keeping it short, sweet, emotional, giving you just an idea, just a taste. We don't we don't need one more long form review, in my opinion, 

Dan Roth  1:32  
but Yeah, I agree. And I sort of the idea was, you know, a lot of times I find myself tweeting threads like that anyway, and just as we're discussing cars, so you just get that sort of

just a stream of consciousness thing. So, anyway, if anybody's wondering about it, if you haven't gone and followed it, you should follow it. It's at Twtcarreviews, so twit car reviews, and it's called car review tweets and

Go there and, you know, interact with us because we crave interaction with writers. We're behind keyboards. Sam's frozen his dungeon right now. So why don't I actually why don't I throw it to you, Sam? What are you driving? You're trying to drive? Or what are you digging out of the snow?

Sam Abuelsamid  2:19  
Well, before it's no, I had the Volvo XC 60. Again, the T six, which I quite like, although I'm still waiting on my opportunity to get into the V 60. Which is, that's the Volvo I really want is the V. V. 60. 

Dan Roth  2:34  
Yeah, I had that a couple weeks ago. It was It's nice. It's cushy and comfortable and looks good. Yeah. 

Sam Abuelsamid  2:41  
And you know, the XC 60 is equally cushy and comfortable. And to my eyes at least doesn't look quite as good. You know, it's taller. I mean, it's it's a crossover version of the same thing. It's built on that same platform. You know, and you know, the the current Volvo design language I think, you know, looks from

Really awesome, I've liked it and, you know, pretty much everything they've done over the last several years. You know, interior, you know, as we've discussed it ad nauseum on numerous occasions is you know, is a lovely place to spend time aside from that whole census UI thing, but you know, and we don't need to beat that dead horse again. But that even you know, even that's something that's going to be replaced next year starting with the the XC 40. Electric, that's coming next year, they're all those going to start rolling out an all new infotainment system that's built on Android automotive. that replaces the replaces the census system, and you know, gets rid of that whole concept of swiping, you know, between the three screens, you know, it's going to be more more concentrated just on the one central screen I think. The the T six the T six version is the the mid level version. That has the the supercharged and turbocharged four cylinder, two liter four cylinder 315 horsepower. And you know, it's a it's a lovely engine. One of my favorite aspects of the the XC 60 is the massaging seats, which I find to be very helpful at times, you know, especially after I've been working in the yard raking up leaves for several hours.

Dan Roth  4:27  
I like how you can control the passenger seat from census so you can surprise people. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:34  
That is, that is one upside of you know of having all that stuff embedded in the screen is you can you can do things like that. On the other hand, the passenger can do the same thing to the driver, which is perhaps not so nice. Yeah, that's true.

Rebecca Lindland  4:47  
I will say and I'll talk about it more in the next podcast, but I happened to have the XC 40 this week, and I had to drive out to Pennsylvania pick something up and bring it back home and It was seven hours in that in the car with basically like a half hour break and I would have killed for massaging seats at about our five those seats were getting hard but that's her neck that's

Dan Roth  5:15  
yeah well so that's when you stop and you hit some ibuprofen you chew it ya know I suffer that you know to be fair I think there's there's not too many cars that you can do that long in the saddle and and not have some fatigue maybe even with massaging because I had we did Manhattan back in the Cadillac 66 and even that with its nice seats after after a while you just start to start to get sore. You get those pressure points. So

Rebecca Lindland  5:51  
yeah, I mean, it was it was it was surprisingly good. But again, I'll talk about that. Next week. I don't want to give it away.

Dan Roth  5:58  
So go on to Sam. Tell us you Sim didn't have a crystal shift knob

Sam Abuelsamid  6:02  
it did not that's only on the high on the plug in hybrids. So the the non hybrid versions still retain the mechanical shift lever, you know that that goes back and forth so it's not even an electronic shifter it's a mechanical one. Just go straight forward and back.

Rebecca Lindland  6:20  
What do you how do you feel about that one?

Sam Abuelsamid  6:24  
Compared to the the electronic shifter that's on the plug in hybrids, I actually prefer it because just because I find it more consistent. You know, for the electronic ones on the Volvo's you actually have to tap it twice to go from you know, to switch is it like to go from park to reverse or park to drive? You got it if you if you tap it only once it goes to neutral.

Rebecca Lindland  6:48  
I know. And I don't like that either. I when I picked up the Volvo on Friday from LaGuardia, I thought I was gonna have to call somebody I couldn't get it into drive. I was like,

Sam Abuelsamid  7:03  
oh, cuz you're just doing it once.

Rebecca Lindland  7:05  
No, I just I didn't know that I need to like move it over.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:09  
Okay.

Rebecca Lindland  7:10  
And it was very annoying. And I have a very funny story that I won't tell you right now about Volvos and me and gear selectors, but I didn't have that same issue in the XC 90 though. I mean, I do remember twice for sure.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:25  
Well, the not the non hybrid xc 90s. Again, don't have don't have that electronic shifter, they have the mechanical shifter.

Rebecca Lindland  7:32  
Okay, so that's why it was so much easier. Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  7:34  
it's only the plug in hybrids that

Rebecca Lindland  7:38  
plug in hybrid. Well.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:40  
The 90

Rebecca Lindland  7:41  
Yes. Well, because somebody chewed me out for not mentioning that. So it was it was definitely the XC It was definitely that the plug in hybrid, but maybe I just got used to it. I mean, I'm used to the XC 40. Now, but it definitely takes practice.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:56  
It does. And you know, I mean, if you actually own one and you know, you're driving Having it for more than a week at a time you would certainly get you would get accustomed to all this stuff you know being you know being a Swedish car premium Swedish vehicle you know this thing you know of course also has all the kinds of things that work you know would be handy would have been handy to have this week you know when our when we got our first you know, arctic blast here in Michigan, you know, with as I speak right now, I think the temperatures down to about 14 or 15 degrees and it's supposed to go down to five degrees sometime during the night. We got eight inches of snow yesterday. So, you know, it would have been nice to have the heated wiper blades with integral washers since instead of what I have right now, but this one also has the, excuse me has the, the four corner air suspension, so you can lift it, raise it up and lower it down, you know? And it it does, it does get It definitely improved ride quality. There's a really nice heads up display. So, you know, overall, you know, Volvo's modern Volvo's are they're really wonderful place to spend time You know, when you got to get from one place to another, you know, the seats are comfortable. You know, I like everything about it really.

Rebecca Lindland  9:20  
One thing I love is that they have different levels of heat in the seat and in the steering wheel. And I had to laugh because when I had mine on the high level and I didn't have any gloves on, it was hot but then oh yeah, I realized that like if you have gloves on this is gonna be amazing.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:40  
Yeah. And you know, of course, you know, you can also turn them off separately. So once your wheels nice and warm, you know, you can just switch that off. Yes. The you know, the the price point on the the one I was driving, you know, because it was pretty loaded. It was the inscription model and it was just shy as 65 $66,000 delivered, which is, you know, it's it's not that's not expensive but you know, for a premium, you know, for a vehicle in this segment, you know, you compare it to an Audi or BMW or Mercedes, you know, it's it's quite competitive and you know, get decent fuel economy you know, it's 24 miles per gallon, gilfer 316 horsepower, four wheel drive SUV, that's not bad at all.

Dan Roth  10:25  
So here's my sort of issue with the XC 60 is that it's, it's the mid sort of like the mid size of their range. It's just not, it's not that roomy, you know, and it's, I know what it's supposed to do and it sort of fills that niche but really, if you need it for cargo space, you really should buy xc 90

Sam Abuelsamid  10:49  
that's probably a valid concern. You know, I guess it depends a lot on you know, what your, what your needs are, you know, I mean, if you've got, you know, a couple of kids that you're hauling around and and They're their stuff. You know, you probably want something a little bigger than this.

Dan Roth  11:04  
Yeah, with a trailer and a roof box.

Sam Abuelsamid  11:06  
Yeah. The trailer and you know, all the other stuff in the roof box and you're good to go. Your kids in the nice serene trip.

Rebecca Lindland  11:17  
It holds a lot. Does I think the XC 60 though is it's kind of that nice balance between I mean, it's, I know what it's supposed to be between the XC 40 and the XC nine because the XC 40 it's pretty compact, and it's very much of a personal vehicle. And I think the XC 60 is that nice transition? It's Yeah, I mean, the 4242 early couple one kid maybe.

Sam Abuelsamid  11:42  
Yeah, the clear the 40 is definitely more you know, for the urban environment, you know, where you want something that's smaller and easier to park, right. Yeah, I think the the 60s, you know, a really, you know, not not too big, not too small, just just right, you know, you know, nice balance of you know, decent sighs and I guess like I said before, you know, personally, if I was spending the money, I would go for the V 60. I have no, I have no no desire to own, you know, a higher up SUV, it's just, it's just not something I like, you know, I will always take the station wagon over the SUV if I have an option. But, you know, if you've got to spend some time in a, in a vehicle on the road, you know, this is not a bad place to spend your time.

Dan Roth  12:30  
It's about how does it actually drive the that's the other thing is taken on its own. It behaves well enough. I didn't really have a ton of complaints about the V 60, for instance, but compared to its competitive set, you know, BMW and Mercedes,

Sam Abuelsamid  12:47  
you know, it's not it's not a sports sedan or, you know, it's not sports car. You know, and I think you know, compared to a BMW, you know, dynamically, it's Probably not, I would say it's not quite as good dynamically.

Dan Roth  13:04  
Although I do like some of the latest BMW, not quite as good either. That's

Sam Abuelsamid  13:07  
like that's true. You know, but you know, the steering is precise if not necessarily, you know, providing a whole lot of feedback. You know, everything generally feels feels good. You know, it feels like you're in control. You know, the, the all wheel drive system you know, definitely you know, helps in low traction conditions, you know, when it's raining, you know, and you get some heavy rain it definitely comes in handy. You know, we did actually get a little bit of snow last week, you know, the we got our first snow snowfall on the last day I had this last week and you know, it you know, it was definitely nice to have a little all wheel drive you to get get warmed up in the first snow of the season. But, you know, it's, I think that for the the customer that's looking for something like this, you know, They're gonna be very happy with us.

Dan Roth  14:03  
Yeah, I couldn't argue with that, I suppose. My, but I will. My final gripe with both the XC 60. And the XC 90 is the way they ride with air suspension, especially I just felt like they're, they're not subtle enough, you know, but the the V 60, which is on the same platform didn't seem to have so much of an issue was actually pretty good. And the S 60 as well seems to have that balance, at least with steel springs. So I don't know whether it's the air suspension or something. It just yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  14:36  
I when you put it in dynamic mode, you know, it's definitely it definitely feels stiffer. You know, if you put it in, I think it's the comfort mode or, yeah, yeah. You know, it does soften up it's, it's it is noticeably softer.

Rebecca Lindland  14:53  
And there's a noticeable difference between the modes. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think that the thing with Volvo is, it's also for, just for People who just want something a little bit different and a little bit different aesthetic also, you know, when you think about, like BMWs and and Audi's and Mercedes there, you know, the design aesthetic is just different and there's some that are common, but you do see them more. I feel like volve always just set a little bit of different mindset for for a consumer.

Sam Abuelsamid  15:26  
Yeah, you know, kind of marching to a slightly different drummer, you know, different a different beat than the Germans. And, you know, it's good. It's good to have choices.

Dan Roth  15:37  
Yeah. They are very popular. They have a lot of presence in certain areas. And, you know, pockets where they're popular, they continue to be popular. I think they've very successfully transitioned from what they pretty aging lineup, saying back in 2013. That's putting it mildly.

But you know, there was and that was a good lineup. You know, everything had a real family vibe to it. That really sort of all came out in the first few years of the you know, the first decade of the 2000s you know, between 2000 and 2005.

Sam Abuelsamid  16:16  
There section eight, the the, the original xc 90 goes back to I think about 98 2003

Dan Roth  16:21  
but it was it was in development all the way back Yeah, it goes back to so it was the sad came out in 98. And the original xe 90 is based on that sad and you can still buy that architecture over in your Ford store for long Not for long,

Sam Abuelsamid  16:42  
they've ended production of the of the flex in the Lincoln MKT. So,

Dan Roth  16:49  
but the tour is still around.

Sam Abuelsamid  16:54  
Now it's out of print, it's been out of production for a while to really Oh, and there may be some there's still some an inventory problem. But yeah they they ended production of that early this year when they switched over to you know to getting set up for the new for the new explorer and aviator

Dan Roth  17:10  
oh maybe it's all done now cuz the explorers yes it was explorer flex and MKT and MKT. Yeah, I forgot about the MKT, which you should do.

Rebecca Lindland  17:21  
The other thing to the market

Sam Abuelsamid  17:23  
certainly did you know these five or six years ago?

Rebecca Lindland  17:25  
Yeah, I think the XC 90 came out in like 2002 time.

Sam Abuelsamid  17:29  
Yeah. But then

Rebecca Lindland  17:31  
they were owned by Ford. But then, you know, the transition to ownership by jeely was really significant. And, and I may have told the story before but I was over in New York to Burg like, just days, weeks before they were going to be purchased. And people were really, really nervous. I mean, they were had, you know, legitimate concerns about jeely owning them and then I went a year later and it was just a complete different vibe, they were thrilled. They said that they're just like leaving them alone, giving them the money to do what they want to do. And it was just people were really genuinely genuinely happy of all the headquarters.

Sam Abuelsamid  18:10  
Yeah. I mean, Julie has been an incredible steward of the brands that it has acquired over the last several years.

Rebecca Lindland  18:17  
That's a good

Dan Roth  18:18  
way to put it. Yep. For sure. If they hold on to the old Lotus to

Sam Abuelsamid  18:23  
they do now, yeah, they bought Lotus and also controlling stick and proton.

Dan Roth  18:29  
That Well, I mean, I can't wait for the first Lotus tune suspension on evolve. I think that that'll fix it. that'll solve all my complaints. But they've been really careful. And I think that that's, that's important, because a lot of times you see ownership, that's not careful. And that's sort of more damaging in that I think it's a legitimate concern where you've got that sort of cultural clash of, sort of, you know, leadership and ownership. We've seen Or we've heard lots of comments about how difficult that is to, to do business or to work for, you know, Hyundai and Kia, for example.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:10  
Yeah, I mean, if you're, you know, if you're not a Korean, you know, working and you work at at Hyundai or Kia, it can be especially, you know, in the executive ranks it, it can be challenging.

Rebecca Lindland  19:24  
And even if you are Korean, it can be challenging. That's true.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:27  
It doesn't matter. But, yeah, I mean, Americans, you know, in the executive ranks at Hyundai and Kia generally tend not to have the longest 10 years. Although I do know a number of people who've been at Hyundai of America for more than a decade now and, you know, seem to be doing quite well. So

Dan Roth  19:48  
we can ask john craft, about his time there.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:52  
Well, I mean, he he had one of the longer 10 years as CEO of that brand in North America. Nobody else has lasted as long as he did.

Dan Roth  20:03  
There was a fuel economy thing that took him out. Right. He sort of fell on the sword for that there was some something or maybe it was just his time to leave and yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  20:13  
yeah, I think it was more of the latter.

Dan Roth  20:15  
Yeah. He wouldn't admit to it anyway. Yeah. All right, well, let's move on from the XC 90 or xc 60 which is a perfect snow car. You know, Rebecca the 2020 Mitsubishi Eclipse cross also strikes me as kind of a pretty good snow car. And that's probably best on paper. Yeah. It's about the only time I'm ever gonna call it like a pretty good anything car that things. It's fine. And that's that's what as much as you can see, it's so old and i don't know i was just came out. I respect Mitsubishi for how long they've been able to stretch that but that car is just not Not real good.

Rebecca Lindland  21:02  
It's not an actually, you know, I had one back in the spring so we may have spoken about the 2019 I definitely wrote a review about it. I but this was the 2020 version of the eclipse cross FCL I has a 1.5 liter engine in it four cylinder. Oh, that engine

Dan Roth  21:23  
I remember liking that engine a lot. Actually. I thought the engine was pretty good.

Rebecca Lindland  21:28  
Okay, maybe.

Dan Roth  21:32  
I thought it was it

Rebecca Lindland  21:35  
was better when I took it out of econ mode. econ mode was brutal.

Dan Roth  21:39  
Okay, it was

Rebecca Lindland  21:40  
just it was like it was wrapped in cotton like it just I was like, please start moving. And it was so lethargic and listless and just this like really muffled like, you put your foot on the accelerator and absolutely nothing. Yes, see, maybe maybe, I don't know, I'm not sure what I, what I what I experienced where I was gonna say like, I felt like it was a larger displacement and something I felt more energetic than I thought it should for 1.5 well, so this was Yeah, I mean, it is turbocharged I and as I said, and this and the CBT you know, I struggle with cvts anyway, but it just, I mean, once I got it out of Econ, and I basically left it out of econ because I couldn't stand it. But you know, I like you said, I mean, I give Mitsubishi credit and I want them to do well because I do really good people that work there I so that's that's what makes me feel so guilty for pointing like these are just not good cars, because they look they they come and they support us. They sponsor some events sometimes and stuff and yeah, like you said, They're good people and they try hard and they're good people. They really are. It's just you know, but at At the end of the day, it's always about the product, right? And so, you know, and this Mississippi, this the the eclipse cross, it's the basis 20,005 95 for the version that I had. And then it had some different features in it, that including, like heated seats and some, some Driver Assist things and then it got up to like 3132 seven delivered. And I think that it just, you know, I remember things like, I couldn't get the voice recognition to work, like I would press it and my phone was attached. My phone was connected by it gave me some random message I can't remember now what it was I should have recorded it and, and then it said it again. And I was like, Okay, so then of course I end up having I had to make a phone call. So then of course, I end up having to use my phone, not on Bluetooth, because I couldn't get it to work even though it was connected. Like it was just I couldn't I couldn't make the phone Call through voice recognition. And then I couldn't change the radio. And there's no dials. Because voice recognition Oh, working. And yeah,

Dan Roth  24:08  
it's got it's got to use the touchscreen there aren't Right. Yeah. Yeah. Is that like The Rockford? fosgate branded head units?

Rebecca Lindland  24:17  
Always? Yes, exactly.

Sam Abuelsamid  24:19  
Yeah, it looks like it has a touchpad in there to it. Yeah, it's what every car should have.

Dan Roth  24:23  
pad is which I decided,

Rebecca Lindland  24:25  
yeah. So so then and then so there was so that was a bit of a memorable moment and then as I'm driving on the Merritt Parkway, which is the lovely two lane, each direction two lane highway, and I drive it a lot. And there's one, there's a particular bump it but it's not like a pothole. It's like It's like two bumps in the road as if they repaired it or something and then it sort of frost heaved a little bit. And I try and avoid the bump because I know where it is. But in this particular case, I wasn't at too, and I hit it. And I swear if I had had dentures they would have come out like this was just an end in no other car. Does it do this like because I've had it before, you know, it's not so huge that I'm going to make an evasive maneuver around it. But man, I think I actually hit it in the in the Volvo XC 40 and it was nothing like that. And I remember thinking wow, what a difference it was between, you know, going over this particular patch versus in one car versus the other. And you know, for $32,000 there's so many other vehicles in this class in that five passenger, four door mid, mid to compact SUV size that you could buy for that price. It just

Dan Roth  25:53  
yet. The world really is your oyster. I saw Oh, I see. First of all, like, you've got the CL, right? Yes. Okay, so that's, that's an all wheel drive version because there's for two for two, I'm looking at what's available for 2020. It seems like there's a new two wheel drive options, you can actually get it. Probably a little, little cheaper than your CL starts Scott to start in the 20s. But even there like what I found with it was when you search compare features for price it the eclipse cross does pretty well, like Sam said, on on paper. You know, it has a lot of features. It has a head of

Sam Abuelsamid  26:35  
data, it checks off all the boxes.

Dan Roth  26:38  
It does and so I can I can understand how it makes that case for itself. It's, I think, like you found it's a much more primitive chassis. Yeah. Then pretty much everything else.

Rebecca Lindland  26:52  
Actually, it's it's an iron. It's an iihs Top Safety Pick two. Yeah. Do they really try it has active some active safety features to know for sure. Yeah, this one has a mission. Yeah the lane departure warning it had adaptive cruise. I heated steering wheel heated heated front and rear seats. I that that Rockford fosgate premium sound system, and all that for 20 $100. A huge tower panoramic sunroof. I mean, it should be a good value. But I think part of it too, is there's just so much competition, that it has to be really good. And it's not

Dan Roth  27:41  
Yeah, it's not as polished materials aren't as exactly yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  27:46  
So yeah, so it was, you know, again, I wanted to like it. I wanted to be like, Okay, good. This is great. And also the visibility out the back is not great. It just, you know, I get And I, I just struggled with it.

Dan Roth  28:03  
Well, it's got that funky sort of as text I over window, right? Yeah, there's a bar right across the middle of the mirror where Yeah, exactly.

Rebecca Lindland  28:11  
Exactly where you needed to go.

Dan Roth  28:13  
Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  28:14  
Yeah. So that was unfortunate.

Dan Roth  28:18  
I hope eventually Mitsubishi gets some new platforms because this is this is the same sort of leftovers they've been dealing with and I part of it is just they don't have anything else. Right. Do they

Rebecca Lindland  28:30  
have alliances? I don't know if they have. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  28:34  
That's right. There are no Nissan Alliance is

Rebecca Lindland  28:36  
a Renault Nissan Alliance. Yeah, but that I mean,

Dan Roth  28:39  
I don't know if it's also matched up with Toyota with something. No, they're not.

Rebecca Lindland  28:44  
Yeah, you're right there. I forgot. They were part of the Nissan Renault Alliance. So yeah, hopefully better product. better products are on the way because they do deserve it. You know, I think that they're, I think they're, you know, they could be a competitive brand. I'm kidding. CERN because they're offering zero percent financing for 48 months and, and they got into they got into trouble, you know years ago with their too many zeros. I remember sitting next to I won't I won't name any names but I remember sitting next to a PR guy from Mitsubishi and saying, Oh, hey, how did that 000 thing work out for you? Like

Dan Roth  29:28  
That was the That was awful. It was the worst thing ever because it's like, it's like a sugar high for the brand to temporarily juice sales, but they were selling cars over the result.

Sam Abuelsamid  29:39  
And it was all subprime stuff too.

Dan Roth  29:41  
Yeah, and exactly and it was people who couldn't, couldn't even swing it on the most generous, somewhat predatory and abusive terms. So the cars came back.

Rebecca Lindland  29:52  
I know it was didn't help. I will say though, he was a great guy though because he knew I had tickets to the to the Kings game, a hockey match. And we were in a meeting and he looked at the time and he goes, you have to go, you're gonna get there on time. Oh,

Dan Roth  30:07  
that's awesome. But yeah, it's just, you know, I hope they don't fall down that trap, and I hope they get some some better product. I mean, Nissan has a bunch of stuff already that they could just sort of give them

Sam Abuelsamid  30:18  
well, and that's what we're going to start seeing, you know, and the, you know, Mitsubishi joined the Alliance two years ago. You know, they were, they were struggling and, you know, Nissan and Renault stepped in and took controlling interest. And, you know, the next, the next batch of vehicles, the next batch of new vehicles, you know, are going to be adopting, you know, platforms from the Alliance.

Dan Roth  30:42  
I mean, you know what, they can just sell rhinos with Mitsubishi badges here and I'd be fine with that because there's so many interesting cars. And probably some of it is like the forbidden fruit kind of thing. Like just we don't have it here but I just the French guy, so fascinating to me and Yeah, Mitsubishi has such a history too. That's the thing that kills it.

Sam Abuelsamid  31:05  
You could you could replace the Mirage with the Zoe.

Unknown Speaker  31:08  
Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  31:10  
I mean, just I think back to

Dan Roth  31:12  
the, you know, the the 90s sort of the Japanese bubble economy certainly helped them out but they hit the demonte was just this is

Sam Abuelsamid  31:24  
the first the first generation DMR day was actually quite a quite a neat vehicle.

Dan Roth  31:28  
Yeah, exactly. And then they had the the Golan that looked very similar. They had the all the diamond star cars, which were amazing. The 3000 GT, like they were on a roll, and let's not forget the Lancer Evo and I don't know, they've been an engineering sort of powerhouse for a long time. I mean, they were they were graded

Sam Abuelsamid  31:47  
engines for a long time. Yeah, they hit that little right on the chassis side, but they were graded engines.

Dan Roth  31:53  
You see that and even as

Rebecca Lindland  31:55  
as sort of limited as we're seeing the eclipse crosses. Like for its limitations it drives well enough of ever calling it tries okay drives fine it's it's it's, you know could be surprises and just fine. Exactly table. I mean I didn't feel unsafe in it by a stretch, you know, I didn't feel like I didn't have control over the vehicle or that the steering was imprecise or something it's not a sport that you know, it's on an athletic, refined product by you know, it's just

Dan Roth  32:32  
grown says it all for for Mitsubishi.

Rebecca Lindland  32:36  
So on a happier note, the other one that I had, yeah, I had the fee at 124 spider, which of course, yada yada exactly the theater. And I actually I didn't get a lot of chance to drive it because I was traveling and Saturday I had to do the the marathon Gumball rally out to Pennsylvania. But the But I had the top down, which was a lot of fun I on Monday, and it was beautiful out and zipped around in it. And you know, I will say though it was really interesting because it was not as engaging as the Miata

Sam Abuelsamid  33:18  
like, well, it's about 100 pounds heavier than a Miata.

Rebecca Lindland  33:21  
Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  33:22  
Yeah, it also has the turbo and the extra the extra body work does does add some weight to it.

Rebecca Lindland  33:27  
It does. And I the Miata that I had was a manual, which is so much fun. And this isn't automatic. And it there was there's just something really authentic about the Miata. That though viata doesn't give you at the same time. I did. I mean, I thought the styling you know, the styling is beautiful. It's such a head turner. And I was able was able to get in and out of both cars fairly easily. But this one was really easy to get out of like I was really surprised and then I had a friend of mine came with me. And he's a pretty big guy. And he was like, how am I gonna fold myself? And I was like, well just try it. And then I see you knew he was in it was like, Oh, that was really easy. And so, you know, there was just things that that was really pleasant about it. Of course, the exhaust net with a Barth engine was just incredible. I mean, it was, it's really fun. So, you know, just hearing that alone. The heated seats were great. It did not have a heated steering wheel, which I was disappointed about. And I actually had trouble with the UConnect system, which I is typically really well received by it didn't seem to like my USBC connection. And I definitely had some issues with it. Not as much as the Mitsubishi but I was just surprised because usually the Uconnect is really reliable. Well,

Sam Abuelsamid  34:53  
doesn't the 124 just have the standard Mazda infotainment system in it Last one I drove Did

Rebecca Lindland  35:01  
you know what I just not touched? Me neither. It wasn't touch,

Dan Roth  35:05  
which I discovered to have a little control knob down on the gas. Oh,

Rebecca Lindland  35:08  
yeah, it's gotta suck. Yeah, it does. No, you're right. Because I couldn't get it to move I was like, Why won't this to my friends like, cuz it's not touchscreen I'm like Oh right. Okay.

Dan Roth  35:19  
See and I think that that's

Sam Abuelsamid  35:20  
it has the proper interface for

Rebecca Lindland  35:23  
now I know I

Dan Roth  35:24  
really should have a touchscreen on it as well as the controller be no

Sam Abuelsamid  35:28  
no I like you know, touch screens.

Dan Roth  35:30  
And it's, I don't know again, you got to meet the people where they are if you're going to put the screen in the thing you have to just understand that people are going to touch the screen I can't tell you how many fingers I have resisted bricking in my career as a video editor where people reach out and they touch your monitor and you need the monitor cool. You don't want smudges on it and it's just it's the touchscreens drive me bonkers. But if you're going to have the thing, people are going to want to touch it.

Rebecca Lindland  35:56  
Yes, I want it. I touched it and touch it and it wouldn't work. But, but again, this vehicle is just it's so much fun for, you know meandering drives and just classic automotive experience. I mean, this one and again, it has a pretty decent trunk. Almost no space inside doesn't even have a glove box. And but the top is so easy to put up and down. You know, it's just there's such a simplistic authenticity to the driving experience when you're in a two door, two passenger roadster and I know Sam, you have an amazing Miata that I've driven in, and it just has that same feel that is often lost today. So I loved it.

Sam Abuelsamid  36:43  
Yeah, I mean, you know, compared to mine, you know, the modern miatas and the 124, you know, feel so much more solid. And what's amazing is, at least in the Miata version, you know, it actually weighs almost the same as my first gentleman. One, but you know, mine feels practically delicate By comparison, you know, whereas, whereas this one, you know, the the modern ones, you know, it feels really nice and solid at you know, and of course, you know, you're, you also you know, it's got a higher belt line so you feel more enclosed, you don't feel quite as exposed as you do in mine, you know, mine, you know, the belt line is lower, you know, I can stick my arm out, you know, and my arms, not, you know, if I put my arm on the winds, the window sill, you know, and the new one, you know, it's it's definitely angled up more, right? Whereas, you know, it's it's much more comfortable in mind. But nonetheless, you know, they are great to drive and you know, I actually, I drove the 124 but a year and a half ago, but I had the, the Abarth with the six speed manual, that you know that that 1.4 liter turbo with the six speed manual is a fan. tacit combination that

Dan Roth  38:01  
that is the only way is it the only way to get a manual with the 124 No. Get it with the other the other turn the bait.

Sam Abuelsamid  38:08  
Yeah, yeah, you can get it in all them. Okay,

Rebecca Lindland  38:13  
yeah. So this one goes for about 30 just over 37,000 37,028 does have the Recaro seats and a couple of other additions but it was you know it was it was just a lot of fun I mean it was I didn't want to see it go for sure I could I could have had it

Dan Roth  38:32  
just feel more worth it than the Miata?

Rebecca Lindland  38:37  
No, I probably was

Sam Abuelsamid  38:38  
starting prices pretty similar. You know, the pricing is not that different between the feet and the and the Mazda?

Rebecca Lindland  38:44  
Yeah, I mean, I probably I preferred the Mazda overall. I would say I that the, just that just the handling of it was a little bit crisper. The I don't know No, I just felt like there was really good feedback from the steering. I and again, you know, part of it I'm sure was because it was a manual that I just was so much more engaged with it. I loved it. I mean, I, I felt like I was always conscious of what I was driving in the Miata because it was just something that I want to communicate with. Whereas the 124 was a little bit more. I almost well behaved if you will, like, I felt like I could get myself into a lot of little more grown up.

Sam Abuelsamid  39:35  
Yeah, the the field feels a little more grown up.

Rebecca Lindland  39:39  
Yes, yes. I mean, I felt like with the Miata, I felt like I really could. I could do some damage and that it was it was a lot of fun. But the but yes, you're exactly right, Sam that the, you know, the field is it's a little bit more grown up. It's, it's sad that it's more refined. It's just more serious somehow.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:00  
Yeah, and and to the question of the engines there's actually only the 1.4 liter turbo offered in the in the field now. Okay, seems like there used to be another engine option but now that it's just the one for turbo

Rebecca Lindland  40:15  
and then on the pricing the Miata that I had this summer was 38,003 35. And this the fee is 37,020. I don't know if they're exactly the same but and actually the fee on the I think it's a good the automatic is pretty is like a 13 or 1400 dollar

Dan Roth  40:39  
up charge so because you should not buy it.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:42  
Exactly. That's the 1350 for the they charge

Dan Roth  40:45  
you they charge you what you get a whole used me on a four for just a transmission. You shouldn't buy anyway don't transmission.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:53  
Yeah, but you know what, if you find a 1300 dollar Miata walk away from it,

Dan Roth  40:59  
I didn't can be 1300 dollars worth of regret I just said, you can get 100 bucks,

Sam Abuelsamid  41:06  
that Miata is probably going to be mostly just rust holding it holding it together.

Dan Roth  41:11  
And there are people who legitimately can't drive manuals. You know, you get knee problems and whatever like that. That's the thing. So carry on, do your thing. spend the money on the transmission, but I personally I would just be like now saving that money. Put it into gas.

Rebecca Lindland  41:31  
Totally agree with you.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:33  
But you know, you can you can get the the 124 for the the classical model starting at 25. Four. And you know, that's got that one for turbo manual transmission. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's actually a really nice combination.

Rebecca Lindland  41:50  
Yeah, for sure. I mean, at the end again, that's one of the fun things about that these types of vehicles is that if they have at that lower price point You don't necessarily need it all dolled up, you know you don't need it all spiffed up you just it's just a fun car to drive

Dan Roth  42:07  
see now and I kind of my assumption is and I haven't really compared them side by side my assumption is that the fiatter is a little bit more dressed up interior wise as certainly styling slightly different um

Sam Abuelsamid  42:18  
no actually in the in the cabin. The only difference between the yacht and the Mazda is the badge on the steering wheel on the airbag.

Dan Roth  42:26  
Yeah, it says so.

Sam Abuelsamid  42:27  
Everything else is exactly the same and and the the graphic that comes up when the the infotainment starts up, you know, you get a 124 profile on there versus the Mazda graphic that comes up

Rebecca Lindland  42:41  
can you get the Recaro seats and the Alcantara leather suede with the Miata?

Sam Abuelsamid  42:48  
I believe you can get recaros Okay, no, no, no, I

Rebecca Lindland  42:53  
didn't mention it in my review. So I usually would have done but I'll look it up to and see because the I thought the interior was was I mean, certainly the seats were just beautiful. And so I think they did a good job.

Dan Roth  43:09  
It was a lot of fun. I think when you see me compare, you can see the I think the original spider was the 124 was staffed by Mick allottee. Hmm, I think you can see how much they tried to get some of that into the current

Sam Abuelsamid  43:24  
car. Yeah, there's there's definitely cues of that original 124 in this in this new one.

Dan Roth  43:31  
Yeah, I think they didn't okay job. It's different. And you know what? I don't care that it's a Miata. I think it's good that we have choices.

Sam Abuelsamid  43:38  
Yes. Well, you know, the funny thing is the 124 originally was when Fiat and Fiat Chrysler and and Mazda first got together for this program. This was actually supposed to be an alpha male spider. Not not a few yet. Yeah. And and Sergio, Marconi has decreed that all alphas would be built in Italy. And Mazda said, you know, for the kind of volume you're going to have for this thing, it makes zero sense to build it to add a second line in Italy to build it. And so they said, you know, so we've The only makes economic sense if we build it in Japan. And so they, you know, they decided, Okay, fine, we'll make it a fee. instead. It's the best

Dan Roth  44:25  
fee out there is.

Rebecca Lindland  44:29  
It's one of the only fee outs in the states anymore So

Dan Roth  44:32  
yeah, I mean, I actually I really liked the 500 x two. Yeah. What did you drive? Wait, I was gonna say, uh, so very much like Sam I was tooling around a premium compact while it seems seems isn't compact, but I have the 2020 Ford Escape titanium. This is my first experience with the new escape, which is this is the third generation so it's the only way you're gonna get actually fourth generation. Is it worth it? has a fourth generation you had two generations of the first one, one generation of the second

Sam Abuelsamid  45:06  
wall or the I mean, you know, technically the second there was the second generation that launched in 2009 or something.

Dan Roth  45:14  
Yeah. So that that was a really heavy mid cycle refresh to me.

Sam Abuelsamid  45:19  
Yeah, I mean, it was the same it was the same basic platform but you know it all you know, all the body work all the interior was completely redone.

Dan Roth  45:27  
I and so, I loved that generation. The second gen. Yeah. I it was just such a friendly little honest little crossover. And with the three liter V six was plenty of you know, had plenty of power. They made a hybrid version of it, it drove really well because it was a Mazda. Just like there was very little to complain about, I think they've Ford really nailed it and then when they went to the outgoing escape the One that so the 2019 is the one that replaced that the one that I was just speaking rapturously about, and I just never warmed up to it. It just felt clunky on its feet. It didn't it was bigger but it didn't feel bigger. It it drove more bland. You know, some of that's probably just rose colored glasses. I just I didn't like the styling. I didn't just never. It never warmed the recesses of my heart like the other escape. And so I really wanted to try this latest generation SOS I guess I'll agree with you. I'll say it's the fourth generation. And it's the only way you're going to get the newest Ford Focus here in the States because we don't get it any other way. And it's it's good. You know, it's certainly the the basic architectures is real good. And I discovered that especially if you want to drive it at the limit the focus beds really help it react surprisingly well to being flung really hard until the stability control kicks in and decides that you have much too much of a yaw angle happening and you need to settle down. straightens it out and stops

Rebecca Lindland  47:20  
in theory.

Dan Roth  47:21  
Yeah, right now there wasn't it wasn't a cloverleaf that a really, really cranked in a bunch of steering angle at the end of it. Nope. Not Not a thing that happened. No. But you know, it's a solid platform. It's an all new platform. So that pays dividends. That it's got the two liter EcoBoost which is plenty powerful for what it is the styling inside and out. It's hard not to like the titanium. It's the highest trim level so it's nice. inside. I really love what they've done with the interior. They've cleaned it up quite a bit. it so it looks a lot better, especially again. In the most premium trim the there's like a strip of its full wood, but it looks real nice. It's kind of a low gloss thing emulates what you'd see in a more higher end interior, like in the Volvo. So they did a nice job with that. The ergonomics are cleaned way up, because there were a lot of buttons on the outgoing and the 2019 has a ton of little buttons. And they're kind of haphazard. It's a lot better organized in the 2020. Some of the buttons are still kind of small, and it's hard to operate them by feeling they're all the way at the base of the console. So your best bet is probably to just leave the HVC and auto and you won't have any of them complaints that I had. But I'm you know, I like to tinker. So I had some trouble finding some of the controls for a couple of days until I got used to it. And sink three is better. It's not, it's not perfect. The voice recognition actually really does help you out That's, again, I think the probably the best way to operate the whole system. I was a little disappointed that by using CarPlay, I was stuck with using maps where I would much rather use the embedded map and some cars like I had the Honda passport. I was I had CarPlay connected, but I could use the built in nav which I preferred, versus using maps on my my phone. But overall, it's a you know, it's just the solid update. It has this a lot to like about it. It is $40,000. So it starts to creep up there, price wise, but it's the top trim. So it has all the toys, it's got the leather, it's got the big panoramic roof, it's got the power hatch, all the A das stuff. You can get it I think in the mid 20s.

Sam Abuelsamid  49:53  
We start it starts at about 25 Yeah,

Dan Roth  49:56  
so that's that's a much more reasonable deal for it. You don't need titanium trim it, it again, it looks real nice, but you don't need it. And it I guess, you know, so I was a little disappointed in the the ergonomics I was also, I still was struck by how much sort of more refined the rav4 felt and you know, this escapes, not bad, but just the rav4 felt a little more rigid, had a little bit better suspension discipline. In the interior, the Ford is nicer, but I also had the ref for x se so it's different. It's not apples to apples. I think the rav4 is actually a little larger, a little Premier, it's at least more upright. So this is a lot more stylish. But you I think you pay for that little bit although what I was able to fit a nice chunk of lawn equipment in the back on Saturday. So you know it's it's a Good choice. It's a good compact grass if it's a great update for what they had fuel economy's a little disappointing and only came in about 24. So, I mean, you could spend the extra 20 grand and get the XC 60 that Sam had and get the same fuel economy with more space.

Sam Abuelsamid  51:17  
You can also get the 1.5 liter three cylinder turbo in here as the as the base engine that's actually quite a nice engine to

Dan Roth  51:25  
I would love to just test that little snarly engine note that's so much more entertaining is that the two liter it's, it's powerful, it's fine, but it also it's not as muted as I'm sure the Coursera is a lot quieter. But you hear some of the engine note. I do like that it doesn't have a CVT, it has a conventional automatic, and those are those are really well matched to each other. And if you put it in Eco mode, everything calms down a bit and you know it, it smooths out your inputs. So snapping your head around like the brakes are touching the gas. pedals touchy, and some of the other moments. So it's a really, really good entry to the compact crossover.

Sam Abuelsamid  52:09  
Yeah. And, you know, like, Look, I'm looking at the EPA fuel economy numbers, you know, the the two liter, the all wheel drive two liter is ready to 26 combined. The one for the for the front wheel drive one five is 30. And the hybrids, the all wheel drive hybrid is at 40 miles per gallon and 41 for the front drive hybrid

Dan Roth  52:30  
seizo Drive hybrid someone to get?

Sam Abuelsamid  52:32  
Yeah, well, you know, if you're looking for, you know, for fuel economy, you know, the hybrid really is the way to go. And, you know, having driven both the hybrid and the titanium with the two liter, you know, the the hybrid is not quite as powerful, but it's still, you know, it's got plenty of power. You know, it's, it's over 200 horsepower combined for the hybrid power trend. And, you know, that's, you know, that's more than sufficient and You know, I think the thing to keep in mind about, you know, what they've done with the escape this time around, you know, because Ford is expanding their their SUV lineup, you know, they've kind of they've, they've shifted, where the escape kind of sits in the lineup, you know, in the past, you know, it was they were trying to have it be more of an SUV kind of, you know, be you know, the urban suburban commuter vehicle and also you know, kind of have some semblance of off road capability. And this time, they have shifted the the escape to really be more of, you know, that suburban commuter vehicle. And one of the interesting things about the escape, you know, when when we were at the launch, they they said that, I think it's like about two thirds of escape buyers or women.

Dan Roth  53:54  
surprise me at all, you know, and

Sam Abuelsamid  53:55  
and, you know, the way it gets used, you know, regardless of who the buyer is, you know, it's It really is more of that urban suburban, you know, commuting vehicle. It's it essentially is, you know, really, you know, the way people traditionally would use a car, like the focus, and it has the, this new escape has definitely shifted to be more focused, like, you know, and, you know, taller but still focused like, and, you know, then to, to fill that gap. You know, for those that want something a little more rugged, they have this other variant that's on the same platform that that's coming, you know, that has been referred to as, you know, the baby Bronco, or the Broncos sport or something like, you know, it'll be something like that, you know, rock climbing that's coming in the spring and that's going to be targeted more, you know, as a rugged off road vehicle, you know, so think of it more like, you know, like a Cherokee Trailhawk type of vehicle.

Rebecca Lindland  54:54  
Okay, so I do that too.

Dan Roth  54:58  
Yeah. I think the key for the escape it seems, is that when it's at its most pure when they just own what it is, it's, it's better. You know, I liked it the most when it was a chocolate, you know and now I like it more now when it's like you said, sort of embracing fully that role as a urban commuter just what you would use a focus for but in crossover form, because people want crossovers versus what is you know, the 2019 is so confused, it's kind of in between it doesn't doesn't quite now and it does it doesn't do either, as well as you know, this one does being an crossover and the old one did at being a little truck. So

Sam Abuelsamid  55:44  
yeah, and you know what, one of the things I really do like about this new one, you know, is that they have, you know, they've done things like lowered the belt line. You know, the visibility out of this one is so much better than in the old one, you know, all around to the front. And to the sides and to the rear. You know, it's you can see better out of this thing that the pillars are slimmer than before. You know one of the issues with the old one was you know it had really thick a pillars and you know the way the mirrors were mounted at the base of the eight pillars and then from inside you know the the A pillars curved inwards at the bottom so you had this massive blind spot at the at the base of the eight pillars on the old one and that's much reduced now on the on the new version.

Dan Roth  56:31  
Yeah, I hated being no asked one.

Rebecca Lindland  56:33  
Well, a pillars are always an issue for me being short, and how far how close I put the seat that need to write that I mean that a pillar just becomes bigger and bigger, you know, as you inch towards this towards the steering wheel. And I remember on the launch that I thought the escape had really, really good visibility. And it was nice to drive. I mean, it wasn't the most exciting car but again, this this segment is really it's kind of For everybody, and it's a it's it has a wide range of appeal. I do agree, Sam, I think that most, most focus, I'm sorry, escape. buyers are probably women because it's a nice size. You know, and it's a nice price point is a good sense of feel. And it's not very exciting. You know, you're not going to get into a competition with somebody at a traffic light because it's not all souped up. We drove the hybrid as well. And that was really nice. They did a really, really good job on the hybrid too. It was it was not very intrusive, you know, it wasn't like, Oh, you know, you're driving a hybrid the region brakes are really well behaved and, and I like this lineup. I think they they have something for everybody.

Sam Abuelsamid  57:46  
Yeah, and, you know, the interesting thing they've done in the lineup now is, if you look at it, you've got the base S model YesI. And then there's the hybrid first hybrid trim level is the SEC sport hybrid. So You know, it's, they've, they've actually made the hybrid a little sporty or looking in sport you're feeling, you know, you've got black trim, and you know, things like that. And you can also get the hybrid powertrain in the titanium. But, you know, that mid level one, you know, that's kind of the heart of the market. And Ford's actually, you know, projecting, you know, pretty significant. It's gonna be pretty significant take rate for hybrids, in this new generation. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  58:24  
well, and there's no reason in some ways, there's no reason not to buy it, you know, it starts at 28. Two for the hybrid, and as you say, it's a sport edition. So it's, you know, it's engaging, it's an engaging drive. And if you have the opportunity to get access to an HIV lane, you're certainly going to get better fuel economy, and there's not you get the tax break.

Dan Roth  58:45  
Can you still get the tax burnout? No,

Sam Abuelsamid  58:48  
not you will be able to get a tax break with the plugin when that arrives in the spring. So there's also a plug in hybrid version coming in the spring.

Rebecca Lindland  58:55  
Right, but some municipalities will still let a hybrid into the HIV lane.

Sam Abuelsamid  58:59  
You know, You're not in California

Rebecca Lindland  59:00  
and California is why I said some,

Dan Roth  59:03  
you know, you just need a printer, or you need a printer and you can print out one of the stickers and you can put it on the car.

Rebecca Lindland  59:09  
But anyway, before I

Sam Abuelsamid  59:11  
do that California, you're looking at a pretty hefty fuss.

Dan Roth  59:17  
In the brig,

Rebecca Lindland  59:17  
I think the escape it's they've, they've done it, they have a nice range for for somebody and I would definitely consider the hybrid.

Dan Roth  59:24  
I think it's worth considering I do still feel like the rav4 is impressively updated as well. And I think that's, I would have to crush up those two, like back to back

Rebecca Lindland  59:35  
for sure. Yeah, I liked the hybrid. I liked the rav4 hybrid a lot as well. And I thought the interior was a little bit spicier. I you know, you know, really, for the for the Toyota. I liked the I liked the bright blue pinstriping I mean, it's just a personal thing. Yeah, I thought it was cool

Dan Roth  59:57  
because that's I actually I really liked the Interior here, except for like the door panels and stuff where you start to feel like, okay, it's a $40,000 vehicle, but you can see some of the areas where they save money. Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:00:11  
some of the lower panels, you know, like the sides of the center console, you can definitely see where, you know, I mean, you know, how in the past, you know, we've complained about the pricing on the Mazda CX five, right? But, you know, you get into a cx five, and then you get into this, and, you know, up, you know, the upper areas of the, the interior, you know, they're, they look, you know, pretty comparable in terms of materials and finish. But when you move down just a little bit, you know, you get to the sides, that center console, now you're talking, you know, hard plastics that really don't look or feel as nice as the materials and the Mazda. You know, the Mazda definitely has a more upscale feel, even though you know, it's, you know, a buck roughly the same price. Is as the escape.

Dan Roth  1:01:01  
Yeah, that's true. See, this is this is monsters problem. We just talked about the rav4 over and over again didn't mention the monster once.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01:14  
I would, you know, I would take the Mazda, you know, over the route for any day.

Dan Roth  1:01:18  
Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, like that that is a problem for masa to overcome. And while the escape exists, I don't know that it's going to because the escape offers that sort of credible counterpoint to the rav4 and to the CRV as well, which is still out there. But the escape just, I think, overall, styling wise, it's sleeker. It's the newest, of course, but it's it looks sleeker, it looks more premium, just the way it's styled and again, I had the sort of top trim, so that probably plays a role in how I feel about it. But it's, you know, it's sucking up to Some space in that market where the smaller players like Mazda may get, get lost, you know, because they're not, they're just not on the tip of everybody's tongue, we should do something to change that, but it's not our car company. So,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:12  
yeah, you know, we're, I think we're, we're Mazda is going to start to feel a real challenge as well from from Ford and, you know, from Toyota and Honda is the lack of a hybrid in the CX five, you know, and, and also, you know, plug in hybrids. You know, Toyota just recently also announced that, I think in LA next week, they're going to reveal the plug in hybrid version of the rap for so you don't have plug in hybrids from Ford and Toyota plus regular hybrids and a hybrid from Honda, you know, and the, the CX five is, you know, it's got that diesel that is not especially fuel efficient diesel.

Dan Roth  1:02:54  
And, you know, diesel is just the star crossed thing now. It's just It takes so long to get here. And by the time it gets here, it's just not. I don't know. Well, no, I don't think it's gonna be a thing.

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:08  
I think it's still a little bit tainted by Volkswagen. I mean, less

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:14  
than it always will be. I think

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:15  
I know unless it's a truck. You know, I think it's really hard to set to sell it speaking of I haven't read a lot, but I, I don't think it's out yet. The Jeep Wrangler diesel launch was last week. And so that'll be really interesting to see how that vehicles received.

Dan Roth  1:03:35  
So I think I've seen chatter that it's in its people, reviewers like it, it's just expensive.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:42  
Yes, that was my impression. Wranglers are expensive.

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:44  
Yeah, exactly.

Unknown Speaker  1:03:47  
But, you know,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:49  
next year, you know, in 2020 there's also going to be a plug in hybrid Wrangler. So you know, that gives you know yet another option there

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:56  
just seems wrong. I don't know why I just I don't know. Okay. I think

Dan Roth  1:04:00  
Did you know what embrace it?

Rebecca Lindland  1:04:01  
I know right?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:03  
You know the thing about you know you're you're out in the in the outdoors in the wild frontier you know what could actually you know what could make more sense then you know if you've got a plug in hybrid Wrangler with you know say 25 miles of electric range yeah you could be driving silently through the through the canyons and over the bowlers you know just on electric power alone

Rebecca Lindland  1:04:30  
well i think what what would actually make more sense is if you save the electric power in the battery pack so that you can you know, heat your campfire or something you know, get some electricity out there. That's what I would rather do with that battery Wrangler. Everybody

Dan Roth  1:04:46  
needs to blow dry. Other camping.

Rebecca Lindland  1:04:50  
I want like a space heater. Oh, a spacey?

Dan Roth  1:04:53  
Yes, we have a fire,

Rebecca Lindland  1:04:55  
not an attempt, you don't

Dan Roth  1:04:57  
know. Well, that's where you get one of those are surplus money bags at my idea camping is a three star hotel. So now Okay. Well look, I think that's that's enough for cars that we've been driving we should jump into some of the stories we've been looking at. And because we've had our first snow snowfall, I think now is a really good time to talk about how Ford wants to expand the Mustang brand into a car that you could conceivably drive and all kinds of weather and get sort of your your Mustang fix that way without crashing into stuff.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:37  
In a good offer. It was standard snow tires.

Dan Roth  1:05:40  
No, they're they're gonna make basically an electric crossover that's Mustang inspired and we see him you actually have the most knowledge of all of us,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:51  
most of which I can't share yet, right? Because that's under embargo until Sunday, but by the time that this recording gets out, and feel just as long as this doesn't get published before 6am on Thursday, how long?

Dan Roth  1:06:04  
Yeah, I wouldn't say how long you want me to sit on it.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:08  
I suspect that you won't be ready before then. So 6am days is the embargo. I'm gonna get it done tonight just for that.

Dan Roth  1:06:16  
Carry on.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:18  
So, yeah, you know, last year 2018 at the North American International Auto Show during Ford's press conference, they showed this teaser video, you know, showing an explorer a Mustang driving through Detroit into the corktown factory where t Madison, the Ford EV team was based, and you know, gets struck by lightning and then you see this flash come up, and then it It ends showing the Mach one badge on there. And, you know, Mach one for for those who aren't Mustang fans, you know, was was a high performance Mustang, you know, in the late 60s, early 70s. You know, I think usually with a Big Block v eight. And you know people saw that they said no this is wrong you cannot call this thing the Mach one. And you know So Jim Farley and the team quickly backtracked on that and the you know, but they ever since then they have been referring to this upcoming their Ford's first dedicated electric vehicle as the Mustang inspired electric SUV. And now officially it is no longer just Mustang inspired. It is actually a Mustang that's it's going to their EV that's going to be revealed on Sunday is called the Mustang mock he. And what do you guys think about calling this thing a Mustang?

Dan Roth  1:07:45  
I have thoughts. I'll let Rebecca go.

Rebecca Lindland  1:07:47  
Oh, no, please. No.

Dan Roth  1:07:51  
I, I think it's going to offend people, but I think it's also fine. If you're gonna move Mustang is a brand unto itself. And I think that expanding it is, is not a bad thing. It certainly you get some of the affinity for Mustang you've already got name that's established people know Ford Mustang, you don't have to. You have to sort of climb that hill of the Ford What? What's that? You know? So I think it's it's not a terrible move I think they have to be prepared for some blowback

Rebecca Lindland  1:08:31  
is nothing sacred anymore? No,

Dan Roth  1:08:34  
it's the car business. Nothing is anymore.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:37  
It's only 19 nothing sacred anymore.

Dan Roth  1:08:39  
You know what they could just call it the Mustang

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:43  
Corvette Now, of course nothing is sacred.

Dan Roth  1:08:46  
You could just call it what they want to call it and tell people like we own the name. It's our car company pouncy and if you don't like it,

Unknown Speaker  1:08:52  
well, what's kind of funny is that it's ironically it's sort of like the Mitsubishi Eclipse cross like the Mitsubishi Eclipse was a little bit car for a long time, right? And there were enthusiasts and just people who remember the eclipse. When that thing launched, we're like, that's not an eclipse.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:08  
Yes, exactly. But there's a there's a very important distinction here, though. Yeah. The that Eclipse sports coupe no longer exists. Yes. Back in 1988. You know, we got word that Ford was going to replace the Mustang with a front wheel drive coupe based on the Mazda six, you know, and everybody got all up in arms about that. And, you know, they eventually backtracked on that that car became the prob, but this time, you know, you have the machi. But the classic Mustang, you know, coupes and convertibles rear wheel drive v eight power, those aren't going anywhere, at least not for the foreseeable future. those are those are still with us, and they're going to be here, you know, so what's happening is they're expanding the Mustang brand, into a family. You know, you've got Everything from four cylinder EcoBoost Mustangs to the GT 500.

Rebecca Lindland  1:10:04  
So maybe it's more like the route. I mean, maybe we're like, what dodge is, you know what dodge to? Yeah, to make it its own brand,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:13  
it kind of is, you know, I mean, it's still a Ford, you know, so you're not completely separating it from the Ford brand. But, you know, you're, you're expanding it, you know, in a way, you know, it's, I'd almost say it's more like what, what Toyota tried to do with the Prius, you know, a decade ago when they added the Prius V, and the Prius C ry, expand the Prius brand into a family. This is, you know, a little bit different, you know, but, you know, and I say I can't discuss details yet of the machi. But I think that this will be a much better fit, you know, as a Mustang than you know, then maybe some of the previous things compared to You know, if they had called the probe if they had gone with their original pant plan for the probe to be a Mustang to be a replacement for Mustang, you know, that would have been, I think, ultimately the death knell for Mustang. But, you know, because you're still retaining, you know, what Mustang is, and you're extending it into a new area, both with electric and the crossover. You know, I think that there's some interesting potential here. And yeah, I mean, I think, you know, a lot of Mustang traditionalist are not going to be happy. But, you know, they're still going to have Mustangs to buy, you know, so,

Dan Roth  1:11:38  
here's the thing. I think the guys I say, guys, but I think I feel like the people who are those Mustang traditionals mostly

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:46  
guys, I

Dan Roth  1:11:48  
yes, probably predominantly, yes. Those people who were going to be displeased that the Mustang name is being expanded to a month. It's not typically a Mustang. They're sort of they're the the end of the curve, if you will. Those are people who are going to be dropping out of the market sooner than those who do you know?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:19  
Let's Let's face it, they're getting old. Yeah. Right. They're like me, they're getting old.

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:24  
They're cool. Right? You

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:27  
know, and they're also getting old

Dan Roth  1:12:28  
school they're getting old but they also like there's a whole bunch of people who remember the pro very fondly would completely accept the front driver all wheel drive electric Mustang, no problem. And those are people who are in it already in or coming into the peak of their purchasing power. For it's pretty smart to to go find them with the product. And you know, the Mustang isn't What it started off as anyway, it hasn't been since the last of the SN 95 cars in 2004. You know, when that was the last Mustang that was based on an sort of economy car, you know, high volume car platform with big engines and affordable, much, not still affordable but you know, much lower price and sort of not as pure sports car since the s 197. And in 2005 it is it's on its own platform. There's a lot of parts sharing, I get it to keep the cost down, but it is become much more of a legitimate sports car than it ever was before. And so it's not what it was already.

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:45  
Yeah, I mean, I understand that I, I think I think it's First of all, I I see where it could be smart. You don't have to build a brand, right? Everyone knows, but I also I I'm thinking Back to a conversation that I had with Jim Farley like a year and a half, almost probably two years ago now, right after they made the announcement that they were discontinuing cars as we know them. And the definition, you know, how people perceive cars is is evolving. And this is that evolution, right? I mean, people, we call everything a car, even if it's a, if it's a truck based SUV, people will still refer to it as their car. And it's, you know, we we call it a something like the Ford Escape, somebody's going to call that their car or a car. And so I think that how we think about cars and how the general public thinks about cars is evolving. And I think Ford is just following that evolution with the evolution of the Mustang nameplate, but it's still going to be the upper is going to be fun to watch.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:55  
Oh, yeah, it's it's gonna be a very interesting week. You know,

Dan Roth  1:14:58  
they complained about the foreigners charger like, well, that's not a charger. And then they bought all of them over and over and over again for the last 15 years or however,

Rebecca Lindland  1:15:06  
of course.

Dan Roth  1:15:09  
Like I said, it's not going to be a problem. I think Ford probably is going to be able to sell these. I hope. What do we know what it's going to be priced in? For me to talk about it? No, no, no.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:22  
Okay. No, yeah, but no, no, no. And no, we can't talk about it. And we don't know anyway, even if, if we could talk about it. Okay. They haven't said, Okay. But, but, you know, keep this in mind, you know, that the the idea of different form factors for the Mustang is not at all new. Yeah, I mean, going back to 19, you know, when when I was working, you know, when I was still working in Ford communications back in 2013, you know, worked on the press materials for the 50th anniversary of Mustang and the The 2015 car, you know, I spent a lot of time in the archives, digging through the archives and finding, you know, images of, you know, some of the design concepts over the years, especially from the early years. And, you know, going back to 1963 6263, when they were developing the original Mustang, you know, there were design concepts, there were clay models and, and mock ups, back in 1963, of Mustang station wagons and Mustang sedans. You know, based on that, that first generation design, so, you know, the idea of trying something new with Mustang, yeah, goes right back to the very beginning of this of this thing. So it's not at all a new new idea.

Rebecca Lindland  1:16:46  
Well, it actually sounds more like they had planned on having multiple body styles for the Mustang.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:51  
But they did yeah, they are they certainly they certainly gave it serious consideration. You know, they never, they never got around to producing it, but even you know, over the You know, we went through, you had the notchback coops, you had the fastbacks. You had the convertibles, you know, there were the hatchbacks through the, you know, Mustang to and and, you know the Fox Body era. So, you know, we went through a lot of different iterations of Mustang over the years. Yeah, I think and, and let's look at it this way. At least it's not a Pinto.

Rebecca Lindland  1:17:24  
Right. That's a pretty low bar.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:27  
Well, I just I just and I just thought, like, you know, I think I think people are actually going to be really pleasantly surprised with this thing when they see the details on it.

Dan Roth  1:17:38  
Yeah, I really I want to check it out. I think it's, it's gonna be great. And it's gonna be different and that's okay. Get over get over your claim to the past. Come on. And

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:49  
you know, if you want to keep building you know, traditional Mustangs, go out and buy them. Yeah, more of them. If you buy them, they will build them. Yeah, yeah. That fork, you know, company, automakers stop building stuff when people stop buying them. If long as people want to pay the money, they'll build it,

Dan Roth  1:18:09  
which is you know, what astounds me is that we can vocally con them into bringing stuff here by saying we'll buy it like the Chevrolet ss, for example. And then we just

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:20  
don't buy it. Or the Cadillac CTS v sports or wagon.

Dan Roth  1:18:24  
Yeah, exactly. Sick. We were vocal enough to make it seem like there's a sales case. And then now let's move on. I'm Sam. We you put in here de icing of Raptor because we saw very briefly there was an auto blog post and the Berlin police don't mess around, if you pardon after in the wrong place.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:52  
Yeah, well, you know, we've seen various, you know, reports over the particular over the last year or so. People with big pickup trucks, especially big diesel pickup trucks, you know, parking them in front of Evie charging stations, you know, just to be just to be assholes. And, you know, the latest iteration of this was somebody in Germany with an F 150. Raptor. You know, I can only imagine that this, you know, usually when you see vehicles like this in Germany, they typically are being driven by members of the US armed forces that are stationed in Germany, because they generally don't sell very many of these two German natives. But, you know, in this particular case, you know, somebody parked a raptor in front of an Eevee charging station, so, tow truck was called and this tow truck happened to have a crane on it, and they literally lifted up the Raptor and put it on a flatbed and took it away.

Dan Roth  1:19:58  
It's excellent

Rebecca Lindland  1:19:59  
and the aerial shot are pretty cool about on Twitter.

Dan Roth  1:20:01  
Yeah. Do you guys understand like Why? Why people feel the need to park their pickups in front of AV charging stations like cheaper, better things to do with your time?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:20:13  
Apparently not

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:15  
really going to get into the motivations of what people do.

Dan Roth  1:20:18  
I don't know. I don't know. I can't say here in like super liberal, New England. I've seen it. I don't know if this is something that like I should keep an eye out for. Maybe only now but

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:31  
definitely have me I think it happens a lot more and this may be stereotypical but in the south. I think it definitely happens a lot more.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:20:39  
Probably. But you know, then again, and you know, talked about this before, you know, in California, you know, I've experienced EV drivers that just want to take advantage of, you know, parking spots that are close to the store, you know, parking, their ease at you know, at charging stations that are right next to a store and not plugging them in. You know, come on, if you're, if you're driving an EV, you know that people need to charge. You know, if you're not going to use the charger, don't park at the charger park somewhere else and walk 100 feet to get to the store.

Rebecca Lindland  1:21:18  
I know. But this is where we need to have those little robot chargers that like come to your car, and that will solve this problem.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:28  
I don't know about that.

Dan Roth  1:21:29  
I think we will hit those kind of inconsiderate owners with tasers. Yeah, but electricity for you.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:36  
I think, you know, I think if we do this, I think if we check them up and put them on a flatbed, you know, it'll it'll solve the problem. You start doing some of this here. You know, it'll that problem will will kind of go away.

Rebecca Lindland  1:21:48  
Yes, it will but so will the mobile charging units. So they'll come out and charge the car for you and then go back to their little spot. So the charging units are in the spot. You don't have to be in a specific

Dan Roth  1:22:00  
business for somebody who you just put like a you know a GMC for 71 on your flatbed and you just drive around to get you and then you get a bunch of your buddies to block the Chargers with their trucks. You get that you for 71 and your Gen sit there and see like, oh, you're kind of stuck on. I got a generator here I'll charge you 25 bucks an hour.

Rebecca Lindland  1:22:27  
So basically, I taught Todd which owns Jaguar Land Rover is looking for a partner because they need more partnerships. I specifically they're talking to Julie and BMW jeely, which owns Volvo as we mentioned earlier, but they also they're based in China. And jlr is really losing their shirt in China. And so they need to figure out how do they manage demand there, how do they had they get product there, and this is a potential way to do that. And then on the BMW Sam, I think you mentioned that they already have a tie in for electric.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:23:04  
I made an announcement back in May. Or see. Yeah, it was us. Oh, sorry, is June okay. It was in June of BMW and Jaguar Land Rover announcing a collaboration for the next generation electrification strategy. So, you know, jlr was going to was going to be using BMWs fifth generation electric drive technology. And right now, you know, jlr only has, you know, they've got a couple of plug in hybrid Range Rover models, but on the they only have one battery electric vehicle, and that's the I pace. And you know, that one, they, they actually are not using. They didn't do they didn't develop their own electric power train for that. They went to a company formerly known as American axle manufacturing. Am provides the motors and gearboxes for the I pace and those those came out of a joint venture that am used to have the sob and after sob went belly up a bought the those assets and

Dan Roth  1:24:19  
American accent was GMT right like it was yeah

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:23  
it was spun out from GM back in the late 90s

Dan Roth  1:24:28  
merican axle was GM Sabah's GM so that's what a tie Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:33  
Well, I mean the tie the tie up with Saab came long after American axle was an independent company

Dan Roth  1:24:39  
but it doesn't fit my conspiracy theory as well.

Rebecca Lindland  1:24:43  
Okay, anyway,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:46  
so anyway, you know, Jet Jaguar, you know has has been Jaguar Land Rover has been looking for something, you know, for more advanced technology for their motors or for their electric electrification. products and, you know, tie ups, potential tie ups with BMW, and, you know, perhaps in China with jeely, you know, would probably make a lot of sense for them.

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:11  
I think it would. And also, you know, I think one of the things that struck me interesting with this, is that just how we're seeing all of these potential tie ups come to fruition in terms of, you know, really kind of being brand agnostic in some ways. It's like, you know, you have technology that we need, maybe you can help us here and there's, there's no strange bedfellows anymore, you know, everyone needs to kind of tie in with with somebody else, and whether they compete directly or not, it's just something it's just the reality of today.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:48  
Yeah, well, you know, we talked about this a little bit earlier this summer when Volkswagen and Ford announced their tie up, you know, but when you're when you're doing electric vehicle, You know, in the past, you know, when, when everybody had internal combustion engines, you know, their engines, you know, tended to have a little more distinct character, you know, from different manufacturers, you know, a Jaguar inline six or V 12 was a very different engine from, you know, say a Mercedes v eight, or, you know, an Audi five cylinder, you know, they had very different sounds very different characteristics. But as you move into electrification, those a lot of those characteristics fall by the wayside and, you know, when you drive one EV, you know, it really doesn't feel all that different from another EV, you know, they all basically feel about the same, you know, they don't make much sound, you know, and listen to the degree that they make sound at all. It's usually something synthetic, right, which, you know, so there's there's less than less incentive for me Buddy to develop their own electric motors. Yeah. And, and also, and the same thing goes for batteries. And especially when he these are still comparatively hard to sell, you know, there's there's still a tiny segment of the market. You know, getting getting to economies of scale is really hard. And so, you know, for manufacturers to tie up and share components, you know, and share the the development costs, you know, for parts that don't make their vehicles, you know, distinctly different from each other makes a lot of sets.

Rebecca Lindland  1:27:38  
Now it does I mean, the way that you're going to differentiate yourself isn't necessarily with your exhaust note anymore isn't with your powertrain technology, it's it's a different propulsion system and it's a different emotional experience as well. So it does I mean, you if you could have the ability to, to just spend the money in the end the time and then budget on the interior on the exterior on the visual parts, because that's at the end is what's going to count in, you know, 10 or 15 years when people aren't really driving as much anymore.

Dan Roth  1:28:16  
There's a totally missed opportunity to where you can pipe those engine sounds in you can buy him like ring tones, or you could sell it.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:23  
Hey, actually, that is not at all a missed opportunity. That is that is starting to happen. Porsche for example, is offering some optional different sounds for the Thai car

Dan Roth  1:28:35  
that's so Porsche. We took it away, but we'll charge you extra and put it back at

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:40  
Oh, boy, they're charging us? I think it's like 500 bucks.

Dan Roth  1:28:44  
Oh, man. That's Yeah, but that I didn't so there's that that that's part of how you make it distinctive, but I think what we're seeing too is that we're we're in an early stage of this new motor, this new print, Paulson technology, sort of trying to go mainstream and just like we had back in, say the teens, 20s and 30s with internal combustion engines, you there were a lot of manufacturers that didn't build their own engines or transmissions, you know, they bought engines from continental or, you know, Lycoming or you know, some other manufacturer and they bought other components and they assembled them here. There were a lot of assembled marks that didn't, didn't make it past the 30s, but the economic downturn. So we're going to see a bunch of startups and a bunch of consolidation and the motors and in proposing technology may get shared. There may be sort of independent motor companies, but then you'll see that consolidation start to happen. The companies are going to stick around are going to stick and they may well turn back to making everything in house like GM does with its own engines and Ford does with its Right, like, and their technology is going to have its own sort of secret sauce. Like certainly Tesla makes its own motors. And they do things differently than other motor manufacturers and they get more efficiency out of out of the way they do it versus the way somebody else does it. So I think it'll shake out eventually. We'll see. In Time, Time will tell

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:22  
it'll just be very tumultuous in the meantime.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:25  
Yeah. All right. Why don't we finish up with a couple of listener questions?

Dan Roth  1:30:31  
Alright, that sounds good to me. Alright, we had we had what did we have? We had one via email and one via Twitter. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:39  
yeah, so in email the other day we got one from Peter Faisal, in Germany, who asked since we live in the times with the most expensive for bangers including hybrids I ever I have two questions. First, am I right that the most expensive for banger base price at least, is the alpha male foresee At 67,150 US dollars and two Why is only a four cylinder called a banger? Kind regards Peter from Bavaria and Germany. Okay. Alright, so I'll take the first part of that as far as the the pricing goes. It's it's actually not the the alpha foresee it's Believe it or not. It's a Porsche the 17 718 Boxster is currently the most expensive. It wasn't always In fact, you know fairly recently. It was not even, it wasn't the most expensive. It was the the, the BMW 740 II plug in hybrid that up until 2019 had a two liter four cylinder in there and was a base price was close to $100,000 for that one the the Boxster See the Boxster GTS, I think, is the is the most expensive four cylinder Boxster and it starts at $83,000 for the Boxster GTS and you can run it up well over 100 grand for that one.

Dan Roth  1:32:20  
So Wow, I think if you were to adjust inflation adjusted dollars to I don't think this is the time of the most expensive four cylinder engines. I think that time was well back earlier in the early part of the 20th century with some very expensive luxury brands.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:32:44  
Oh, yeah. And and some very large displacement four cylinder engine. Yes.

Dan Roth  1:32:50  
So you like let's just keep that in perspective, like, yes, due to inflation and various other factors, the actual dollar amount right now is Probably higher than ever before, but in terms of percentage of income and stuff is probably not the most expensive. Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:33:06  
that's, that's true. Yeah. And yeah, and some of you know, some of these models have actually moved away from four cylinders, like the BMW five and seven series plug in hybrids for 2020 have been updated with a six cylinder engine so they're, they're no longer even available in that form. But it's, yeah, you're right. You know, in in real dollar terms over time, you know, they're, they probably were more expensive in the past. So you want to you want to handle the four banger question?

Dan Roth  1:33:40  
I sure. I will also point out that well for bangers seem like you know, the only engine that we say banger people commonly call one cylinder motorcycle stumpers. So I think I think it's just there's it's just a colloquial sort of understand, but I think four cylinders have that banger attached to it because they're not the most inherently smooth engine especially in inline four is you've got you know two sets of pistons so at any point while it's running two of them we're going to be up to if we're gonna be down that's a lot of mass and just it makes him bounce vertically. Whereas he six cylinder is very nicely balanced. There's, there's, there's more mass obviously, but the mass is is better spread out so it's just inherently balanced so they don't they don't shake like that or for sender always has a little bit of a shake in it and and so I think that that roughness is how they got that reputation and now we're in this age of very smooth four cylinders, which we didn't have back in the day when you know, sixes and eights were a lot more common the four cylinder felt a lot more agricultural because you know, that's a tractor engine. I know my farm all cup has a nice four cylinder not not my, you know, my Tempest or whatever Yeah there's that at least in in line and a flat for because the masses arranged differently. I put aside a second order

Sam Abuelsamid  1:35:10  
second order and balances that that's it's not

Dan Roth  1:35:13  
there. But for whatever reason I never feel like a flat four is really any kind of more luxuriously smooth. It has a different engine note to me and that's about all. I don't know, they don't feel any smoother.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:35:31  
All right, they did. Did you have any comments on that? Rebecca?

Rebecca Lindland  1:35:35  
I'm good.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:35:38  
Alright, I'll let you feel this next one from from Twitter from William mailee. Was there ever a news story or rumor that you first thought was a good idea but then going the opposite direction the more you thought about it,

Dan Roth  1:35:52  
and he offered the example of Skoda coming to the US Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  1:35:56  
Yeah. I you know, I had, I saw this earlier and I was trying to think of them and one of the things I thought it was, you know, maybe naming a car after a founder, son, but that seemed like a bad idea

Dan Roth  1:36:12  
What happened?

Rebecca Lindland  1:36:13  
Yeah, cuz I was like, oh, that didn't go so well you know that one time itself you know, I was trying to think of them I mean, first of all, I I you know, try and put out of my mind when I've been wrong. So that's one thing but I nothing jumped out at me right away. I do you guys have some?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:36:35  
I, unfortunately, can't think of anything because most of the bad ideas usually immediately struck me as bad ideas. So having a hard time sounded like that seemed like a good idea at the time. And then

Dan Roth  1:36:49  
there's, there's there's some current ideas that tend to focus on other market products, right. Like how much have you seen People say that they really wish the Suzuki would sell the Jimmy here in the US. And that's, it sounds like a great idea as an enthusiast. It's a terrible idea. Because it's small, it doesn't have the right power for this market. It's, it's not going to feel refined enough. They wouldn't clear enough sales to make it profitable, but they would sell some, for sure, especially the first year. But they wouldn't sell enough in those ensuing years and they probably wouldn't sell enough that first year to even sort of, you know, make any return on the investment. So that's, that's a good idea. That's actually a terrible idea. That's that's what I come up with.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:37:49  
Yeah, I guess, you know, maybe maybe one idea that, you know, has kind of soured for me over the years yeah is you know some of the stuff around partially automated vehicles yeah oh

Dan Roth  1:38:07  
yeah that's

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:08  
yes you know when when we when we've had when we first got you know some of these you know, things like autopilot and you know pilot assist and these various partially automated systems. Yeah, they seemed like a good idea at the time. But the more I thought about it, the more I've used these systems, the more I realized that Yeah, no, they're not a good idea. Not at all.

Dan Roth  1:38:30  
I got one I got one. Okay. touch screens.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:34  
Oh, yes. I was a terrible idea. It seemed like yeah, let's let's stick our tablets and our phones right on the dashboard. And then you know, when you actually use them while you're trying to drive you realize what a horrible idea that was.

Dan Roth  1:38:52  
I just one thing right over the bump and you hit the wrong thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:58  
So some ways to try pad on the center console. Oh,

Rebecca Lindland  1:39:01  
yeah, sec. So I would actually say also things you know, like heads up display, which some people have a really hard time getting used to and now that you can turn them off, you know, which is hugely beneficial, I think to some people who are just not comfortable with it, or they find it very distracting. I

Dan Roth  1:39:20  
yeah, I suppose the people my friend distract the cat. I love it.

Rebecca Lindland  1:39:23  
I love the heads up display. I love

Sam Abuelsamid  1:39:25  
I love hugs to, you know, the Yeah. Well, I mean, the main the main issue I've had with many of them over the years is, you know, just the way they've been executed with often being fading away if you wear polarized sunglasses, yes, yes. Yes. Not not actually being able to see them

Dan Roth  1:39:46  
and polarized sunglasses or the sunglasses you should use because the best?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:39:50  
Yes, absolutely. So. All right. Yeah,

Dan Roth  1:39:54  
there's plenty of bad ideas. Those are just a few. So I think this is up something that now we've answered. And now it's your turn listeners to chime in with you. We'll see what you've got.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:40:10  
All right. Yeah. Sounds like sounds like that could be very interesting.

Dan Roth  1:40:13  
All right, well, so this is a podcast about Wheel Bearings podcast. 130. We've made it to 230 episodes. You know where to find us online and Alright, see ya.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai