Sam Abuelsamid  0:00  
Well, welcome to wheel bearings, Episode 152. This time around, it's just me, Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights.

Rebecca Lindland  0:13  
And Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. It's just the two of us.

Sam Abuelsamid  0:18  
How you doing, Rebecca?

Rebecca Lindland  0:19  
I'm good. Thank you. I've had a busy

Sam Abuelsamid  0:21  
fun week. Oh, yeah. She's been just a busy day today. In fact, you know that to two new vehicles launched today that we're going to talk about later on, but first, you've been driving some fun stuff. Stuff that I have not yet ever driven. Oh, ever? Never. I've never driven one.

Rebecca Lindland  0:42  
Oh, gosh. Okay. So yes, I had the opportunity. The last I was about 10 days. I to drive to Aston Martin's. So I first drove an Aston Martin. About three years ago. I they invited me over To the DB 11 convertible or Valon a lot volant and over but in the UK, and I said, you know, I've, I've only driven on the left side of the road once and they said that's okay, we'll get you one beforehand. And like that doesn't really count. Okay. So they got me one. They got me one here in the States, which was

Sam Abuelsamid  1:31  
a right hand drive

Rebecca Lindland  1:32  
one to drive over here. I know right now, they got me like an Americanized one. And it was a lot of fun, obviously. And then when I went over to the UK then I drove one I drove a left hand drive, who knew I

Sam Abuelsamid  1:49  
had drive on the left hand side of the road

Rebecca Lindland  1:50  
and side of the road. Yes. Which was terrifying. Now fortunately, I was with the absolutely delightful lovely Lynn Woodward. Actually, I spent a lot of time in the UK as a child. So to move to the states when she's 15, she's much more well versed in, in driving because she goes back and forth quite a bit. And so she really guided me through but we had more of those crazy roundabout things, which are actually a lot easier because least you can follow the traffic, the concern the issue that I had was earning, because I didn't know where to look last, you know, and it was just,

Sam Abuelsamid  2:30  
when you when you make right here, the challenge is when you're making left hand turns, you have to look to the right. No way, making left hand turns, you have to look to the left. Before you cross over the traffic there. It's the opposite. You have to look, you're what you're making right hand turns, you have to look to the right before you cross over.

Rebecca Lindland  2:52  
Yes. So I did actually pull out in front of a tanker that I know ordinarily would have never done. But yeah, so after watching Brief squeal, everything got backed down. So anyway, so I've, I've gotten the chance a number of times I thankfully, I addressed some nice relationships I have with them to drive the Vantage to a couple of times. And this was the first time that I had had some time to spend at home here. You know, I was like, I don't want to say daily driver. But anyway, so the first one that I had was the Vantage coupe, which, you know, it's this really cool, great looking little two door coupe. It is truly a two seater. There's no backseat to a proper, proper sports car. 503 horsepower, 4.0 liter turbo V eight, HP automatic. Unfortunately, I would love to have had a manual, but you know, they offer one anymore. They do. So Martin has vowed to always offer manuals. Yes. So yeah, no, that was under no Palmer's tutelage which we'll see what happens with the new AMG guy. I but you know, the car itself, it is just an absolute blast. I mean, it's, it's small. It's, you know, into my knees described it as nearly claustrophobic. And I'm like, yeah, it is, but oh my gosh, it's like just a little rocket ship. Like, the things unbelievable, right? It's so much fun. It just, it just goes and goes and goes and goes. And it's just, it's, it's an amazing vehicle all around. I think that you know, there was a couple of things that I had. I was I was a little concerned I had, the visibility can be definitely tough in it. There's sensors all around which help but visibility is it's not ideal. You know, like you and I talked about a lot. Those high high belt lines, those really narrow greenhouses make for a fantastic looking vehicle. It does not make for a great vehicle to see out

You know, but that's okay. The other thing that was a little surprising on this one was that it was actually, it was noisier than I expected it to be. And I actually met Nicole wakeland, one of our friends, our colleagues, for lunch, and I had her go with me. And she, she said the same thing. And I feel like I always comment on nbh. But she that wishes rise in opinion on this one. But it was just a little It sounded like there was a lot there was a lot of noise coming from the a pillar in particular was noise when noise, right? Yes, yeah. When wind noise very specifically, that you know, the engine, of course, is incredible. It sounds just unbelievable. And there's two guys at the Aston Martin factory that their only job is to tune the exhaust node. And they should definitely get Grammys because they're just gorgeous. But the cabin noise the wind noise in particular, and I felt like it was coming from the a pillar. Nicole says she felt like her window, I needed to go back he was sick, she kept checking to make sure her window was sealed up enough. Now interestingly, I did not at all had that same issue with the next acid that I had, which was the DB 11. And nothing was a really tight little cocoon so that that wind noise may have just been, you know, these are all hand built cars. I and you know, maybe there was just a little bit of an issue there but otherwise it was you know, incredible to drive. I the, the infotainment system which is not why you buy this car. It's really bad. It's very clumsy to use. It really needs an upgrade. There was no Android Auto or Apple CarPlay offered. It's it's really a little bit embarrassing. I think, for a car davantage It's a base price is 152 and change. The one that I drove was 192,000 I felt like they're really the the infotainment system. I don't know who supplies it, but it's really lacking. And, you know, and again, it's not why you buy the car, but it was just it was, you know, in this day and age, you expect a little bit better. I you know, I mean, what I find with the Aston's is that there's, you know, they, they are authentically driver focused. They are so responsive, there's such a feeling of surety on the road, like they're really planted, you know, it's a wide base, even in this small car. The stance is so wide, and it's a little cliche, but you know, the tires are pushed all the way. The corners, there's very little overhang, the proportions are amazing on it. And you just, you just feel like you're always in control. With that driving that kind of car. You just feel like you're always in control. So that was really, really cool. It's a I always consider it a privilege to drive a car like an Aston.

Sam Abuelsamid  8:07  
And yeah, I mean, I would, I would certainly consider I, you know, I think we have to consider it a privilege to drive any kind of really ridiculously expensive car. It's, you know, we're, we're getting paid somewhat, you know, for for the, you know, for the opportunity to, you know, give our feedback on these things. You know, most the vast majority of people never even see one of these things and

Unknown Speaker  8:33  
yes,

Sam Abuelsamid  8:34  
or somewhere much less actually get to drive one so, you know, to have have something like this delivered to us, you know, we can't word I'm looking for it. You can't take it for granted. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  8:47  
no, I'm sorry. I mean, not at all and when you talk about it, not not even seeing one. I asked him he has built I they've built between 90 and 100,000 cars, I don't think that the 100,000 unit mark,

Sam Abuelsamid  9:04  
actually, I think they hit 100 years ago. Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  9:08  
Well, no, because when I went to see them, they were at 80. Because

Sam Abuelsamid  9:15  
Yeah, I vaguely seem to recall them hitting 100,000 a year or two ago.

Rebecca Lindland  9:20  
Okay, maybe they've just hit. So when, because when I went when I toured the factory, I, they said that basically, they've built as many cars in their life in their, for their existence, as Toyota builds in about 48 hours.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:37  
Yeah, that's that's about right. Yeah. I recall when I was younger, like, you know, this, this was back in the 80s. I think, reading that they at that time, they had just built their 10,000th car ever. Wow. And this was this is a company that's been in business for 100 years.

Rebecca Lindland  9:58  
Yeah, yes. It's like 100 and something now. Yeah. I mean, it's It is beyond exclusive. You know, this is definitely the kind of car that people come out and look at and ask you about and want to talk about. And when, when Nicole and I met for lunch, you know, somebody in the parking lot stuff and was like, Can I just look at it and I let him sit in it and oh my gosh, I guess I was really cute. You know, he was just so excited. And so it's really, it is it's a it's a special, it's a special brand and they, you know, for better for worse, they've historically they've gone bankrupt. times right. And fascinating is that most of the time are actually saved by their owners, because there is such a loyalty and emotional attachment to the vehicles and that's what the that's what these vehicles inspire in people. And so, you know, it's just, they're, they're really, really unusual. And we have to figure out when you can drive one. So that's when the next one that I had that I'll just over briefly was the DB 11 v coupe. This one is actually more of a four seater. I mean, it's, I have my two boys in the back. It is I have two nephews in the back. They were delighted. My my small young four and eight year old nephew

Sam Abuelsamid  11:24  
25.

Rebecca Lindland  11:25  
Now the 25 year old, but you know, it's nice to at least have that as an option when you need it. And this actually has the same engine. As you know, the 4.8 4.0 liter twin turbo V eight that I like to manage a lot. It was tons of fun. I adore the GPL it's, it has this brawny elegance to it. That's just such perfection to me. I just absolutely loved it. And both cars have drive Most that you can put them in. So you can put them in GTS, which is brand tour and which is a nice, it's a soft, which I love. There's still a feeling of emotion to the road in GP, and then you put it in sport and just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah is even more, and then you put in Sport Plus, and all you really want to do is go find tunnels to keep track because the sound of it is so incredible. So the DB 11 this one starts at 205,000 the one that I drove was 235. And funnily enough, it's still had the terrible infotainment system in it, but it just this one was one that you know, I just drove it and drove it and drove it and drove it because I just loved it. I absolutely loved it. Again, it has a it's definitely a bigger vehicle. It's a heavier vehicle. I buy there's a can there's just that elegance to it. That's not even I'm not doing it justice at all. No, it's the The both of the cars, they're not daily drivers. You don't want to be driving these things every single day, running all these different errands, you know, the gas mileage is terrible. We don't care if you're starting to earn $35,000 if

Sam Abuelsamid  13:21  
you can, if you can, if you can drop a couple hundred grand on a car, you don't care about gas,

Rebecca Lindland  13:25  
you don't care about it. I you know, but it's just, it's, it really is just they're incredible vehicles. I absolutely love them. So the DB 11 wins out for me. You know if you can spring for the extra 35,000 I go for the DB 11. And, you know, from a corporate standpoint, they are actually in the advantages a little bit of a disappointment. There's a lot of discussion about the front grille. It's a enormous shark like looking, I get that but I can also see why somebody is in that price point. And you're like, you know what I'm going to, I'm going to fish I'd go a little bit higher and go to the DB 11. Because it's just it's, it's just a such a fantastic vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:12  
Yeah. And you know, the DB 11 has a little bit more of the least what has become the traditional iteration of the grill. It's more like the, the asons that we've had since the early 19. Or since the since the mid 1990s, when the DB seven arrived. And to what you're saying earlier about the company being rescued by its owners from bankruptcy, the DB in the names of Aston Martin's comes from David Brown, who was an owner that rescued Aston Martin from bankruptcy in the late 1940s. As they they started naming the cars after him all the way up to the present day. You know, they've all there's always been a DB model. In the lineup and you know, currently you have DB x, the DB 11 and the DBS along with the Vantage,

Rebecca Lindland  15:07  
right, so the DB x is their SUV that's coming out. It's been delayed. I did get a chance to look in it sit in it, there's been some reveals I around and I think this is such a great vehicle for the brand because actually 50% of all their sales in China are women.

Sam Abuelsamid  15:30  
Woman Yeah, surprising. It is.

Rebecca Lindland  15:32  
And, you know, and and when I've when I've worked with them, like at Pebble Beach, I've, I've done some informal judging for them. And listening to owner stories. There's always a number of women that I've interview that own on I was doing specifically the gayden where the factory is a gated VAT. And there's always women they're like, you know, this was a you know, I got a woman who was a surgeon and she's like, you know, After my, when I finally paid off my loans, I got an Aston Martin, you know, another woman was a cancer survivor. And she's like, you know what I just went out and I had to get one. And you know, she had her name engraved in it. But this is the kind of stuff that they do. And I will tell our listeners, if you ever get a chance, if you're in the UK, and you get a chance to do your factory tour, definitely try and get over to gate and they actually have a great nice little showroom as well there and it's just a fascinating as a place to be to be able to see things made by hand and I although it's

Sam Abuelsamid  16:33  
not as handmade as they used to be, though. I mean, when I when I first read about Aston Martin became aware of them in the early 80s when I was a teenager. You know, at that point, the gayden factory didn't exist yet. They were still building all their cars, you know, in these workshops, and Newport Pagnell. Yeah. And, you know, in those days, you know, in the early and actually they continued building those cars up until the early 90s. At that time, you know, the body panels, they were not stamped in stamping presses, they were hand formed, you literally everything was these were as hand built as you could get, you know, they, they had a crew of of craftsmen that, you know formed every aluminum body panel,

Rebecca Lindland  17:19  
which is about 10,000 or less.

Sam Abuelsamid  17:22  
Every engine was assembled by hand they had for for people whose sole job was to assemble engines. And this is where the idea of putting a nameplate on each engine with the engine builders signature on it came from you know, long before other companies started doing it, you know, they were doing it and I don't know how, you know, if it's apocryphal or not, but you know, I remember reading that, you know, some Aston enthusiasts could tell by the way the engine felt and sounded, which of those four guys actually built that particular engine.

Rebecca Lindland  17:59  
So A friend of mine that doesn't work there anymore, but it worked there for a number of years. He could actually tell who had done the hand stitching. He can tell we're looking at the stitching looking at the stitches. Yes. Because whether they were right handed or left handed, and then he got to know them well enough to know which seems stressed. It did which car?

Sam Abuelsamid  18:21  
Yeah. So I, my understanding is that now the old workshops and Newport those are used for the the restoration part of the business.

Rebecca Lindland  18:33  
Yeah, so we did. Right. We did a tour of that as well and saw, you know, one offs and just incredible and incredible and we couldn't take any pictures, of course, which was a tragedy. Yeah, it's, it's really, I mean, it's, you know, it's a special brand and they've had a lot of struggles and more recently, now that they're public, their struggles as we talked about on a previous episode, with Andy Palmer, getting the sack You know, it'll be really interesting to see how they do on the DB x launch. That is absolutely the most important, important vehicle that this company has had in decades.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:12  
Yeah. And that's that the DB x is coming out of a new plant and Wales I believe. Yes.

Rebecca Lindland  19:19  
Yes. Okay, the name of it.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:23  
So all right. So Aston Martin's,

Rebecca Lindland  19:27  
you approve? I approve. Okay, go get one.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:32  
I'll get right on that.

Unknown Speaker  19:33  
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:36  
I, on the other hand, do something a little more pedestrian, but, but still a hell of a lot of fun. I had the latest 2020 Mazda Miata and I posted some pictures. I had it parked next to mine 30 years apart, and yet still very much the same DNA. So this is the latest generation Miata last year for the actually for the 2019 models. That He did an upgrade so that the current the the current fourth generation Miata, I think debuted in 2016, if I recall correctly, and then last year, they got an engine upgrade. So it's still a two liter four cylinder. But it went from 155 horsepower to 181 and 151 foot pounds of torque. And I was fortunate enough to get one that had six speed manual in it, which was absolutely lovely. a belief that that is the only way that miatas should be built.

Rebecca Lindland  20:34  
Is that is how God intended them.

Sam Abuelsamid  20:36  
Yes, exactly. Yes. Or, you know, a five speed will do as well, which is what mine is, but you know, six, six is good. And the one I had was the Grand Touring. So the the Miata comes in three trim levels. Now, the sport, which is the base model, the club, which is the more hardcore, you know, this is if you want to do some Tractatus To work with it or really press it hard on the backroads. The club is the one you get because that's got, the bigger it's got the Brembo brakes and strut tower brace and a few other upgrades to make it handle a little better. Why do they call it the club? Because it's the one that's intent intended if you're doing some club racing with it.

Rebecca Lindland  21:23  
Oh, okay. So literally it's like represents the Racing Club.

Sam Abuelsamid  21:26  
Yeah, so it's the most hardcore addition with the Miata. And then the Grand Touring is the more luxury trim level that it's got leather seats and things like that. But you lose, you lose the strut tower brace on that one. Not you know, and for normal driving on the road, you know, unless you're taking it to the track, you're not really going to notice the difference with the strut tower brace. And the Brembo brakes are an extra cost option on that one if you want to. But you know, I mean this car is so light that especially for you If you're driving it on the road, you don't really need the brembos you know, like I said, if you're if you're really thrash it hard on the track or even on back roads, then the Brembo is a great extra thermal capacity, always a good thing. But, you know, I drove this thing around and just had a blast with it just as I've had with every Miata.

Rebecca Lindland  22:20  
I had one last year died. And my also had a manual. I think they I'm hoping that they only put manuals in the fleet, right?

Sam Abuelsamid  22:30  
No, there there are some automatics in the

Rebecca Lindland  22:34  
mine was the convertible RF.

Sam Abuelsamid  22:37  
Okay, so that's the retractable hardtop or a retractable hardtop? Yeah. So this was the solid top. All sorts of fun. Yeah, it's

Rebecca Lindland  22:45  
just their spirit. It's a purist car. I love that.

Sam Abuelsamid  22:49  
Well, the the soft top is really the purest one that is not quite as pure

Rebecca Lindland  22:55  
Miata in general.

Sam Abuelsamid  22:56  
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, and the, you know, the softtop this is, this is the best softtop in the world, you know, there's a single latch in right on the windshield header, press a button, pop it back and push it down, and you're done, you know, five seconds and you're done. And then you know, if it starts to rain or something, you want to put it up, reach strike pocket with top up, just press the latch right over your shoulder, pull it up, twist it, and you're done. You know, very, very simple. It's, it's great, you know, and, you know, the thing, the thing about this Miata compared to the ones, you know, earliest compared to mine, you know, for example, you know, contemporary Mazda is, you know, we've talked about this with all the other Mazda models, you know, at their, at their relative price points, you know, they have probably the most premium feeling interiors you're going to find anywhere. Yeah, you know, in their price segments. And the same applies to the to the Miata. You know, The one I had was the Grand Touring, you know, with with a bunch of options on it, and with the delivery charge came to $32,790. So $33,000 Yeah. And, you know, this, you know, this feels, it feels so nice, you know, you've got really great fit and finish great materials in it, you know, but it still feels like a Miata, you know, like, like a proper sports car roadster, you know, very elemental. You know, you know, whereas mine, you know, I mean, first time, you know, 1990 You know, it was more hard plastics. You know, you didn't find materials like this in a car, that price point in 1990. So, yeah, and it's funny, you know, driving mine and the new one back to back, you know, it's still it is raw, you know, and it you know, they they both feel very similar in a lot of ways. But you know, mine, you know, Again, going back 30 years you know the wave vehicles were built the structures were not as solid minefields almost delicate by comparison you know you close the doors it doesn't have that really solid feel and you know and the you know the beltline a new one is a little bit higher than online.

Rebecca Lindland  25:20  
Feel yours? Here's like I remember like, I felt like my shoulders were out of the car.

Sam Abuelsamid  25:26  
Yeah, they are when I'm driving and my shoulders are definitely out of the car. And that's not the case with with the new generation ones. But you know, you still when you put that top down, you know, you still have that perfect 360 degree visibility, you know, and the new one feels so solid. It feels like it could actually survive if you hit something Where's mine? Not so much. Not as bad as you know, I think you know, if if you crash tested my Miata and Todd lasses. sprite, you know, It would be no contest. My mind would definitely win. But compare mine to the new to the new generation. totally different story you could you could feel safe driving the, the new one, right? And, you know if you go for the bass sport trim tab in here the sport trim starts with a manual transmission at 26 580 900 bucks for the destination charge so 2727 and a half, you know out the door that's a base one and you're getting the exact same power train is what's in the club or the Grand Touring, you know, I mean it's a it's a great bargain if what you want is a really fun to drive sports car, you know that you can you can put the top down and just go anywhere. You know, it's it's fantastic. You cannot beat a Miata. You know, there's a reason why they came up with the retro nim you know for Miata, you know Miata is always the answer to any questions.

Rebecca Lindland  27:02  
That's awesome. Yeah, no, I think it's there. I love that kind of purist vehicle to, like, its only job is to drive. Well, you know, it's, it's there's nothing utilitarian about that. And in the land of SUVs, it's really fun to get into a car like that.

Sam Abuelsamid  27:20  
Oh, absolutely. And, you know, certainly, you know, you're not going to be taking, you know, any family anywhere in this thing. I mean, my Miata is perfectly sized for myself, my wife and our dog. Yeah. And when we have a small dog, you know that it's, but you know, it. I just love driving Miata is, you know, every Miata I've ever driven has been so amazing to drive. And with that extra bit of power that it's got now that you know, 181 horsepower now. Yeah, you know, it's, it's just got that extra thrust, that that really, you know, it's just, it's just exactly what it needed. You know? A few years ago when the fee at 124 came out and the 124 is is based on the Miata, yet FCA did a deal with Mazda to rebadged the Miata so the 124 has got different different bodywork on it The interior is exactly the same except for the badges but you know, because with the extra body work it ends up weighing about 100 pounds more than me I feel that you do feel it but at the time you know the the Fiat was the only one you know they had the turbocharged 1.4 liter in their in it. I think it's about 176 horsepower and more torque. So it felt a little stronger than the Miata did. So you know in terms of handling you definitely feel that extra hundred pounds because you're talking about a car that starts at 2300 pounds and you're going to 24 so that makes a makes a note more noticeable difference. Right. Mine is only 2100 pounds. For gosh for a month. You know, for a 21st century car, you know, 2300 pounds is remarkably light. Yes. And now, you know, with the the engine upgrade, you know, there's no reason at all to buy the Fiat anymore.

Rebecca Lindland  29:11  
Yeah, no, it's true. I remember I had the Fiat as well. And it was still fun. It was a great car. I love the looks of it. But it didn't drive exactly the same. It was definitely a different feeling to it. And I preferred I preferred the Miata, I thought it was just that much more fun. It was just something really, and I just I love the purity of it. You know, it's very authentic. They haven't changed it dramatically. from generation to generation. It's still like your 30 I just say your 30 year old Mazda Miata stands out pride proudly,

Sam Abuelsamid  29:50  
nessa brand new one you feel you feel that same DNA and those two cars you know, aside from the improved body structure, you know, the other main differences are, you know, you've got a lined top, you know, instead of, you know, an online top, and the other thing I can't remember now, is there.

Rebecca Lindland  30:14  
There's more safety features as well,

Sam Abuelsamid  30:16  
right? Yeah, you got airbags, you know, things.

Rebecca Lindland  30:19  
sides. Now, I think it's fantastic. That's awesome.

Sam Abuelsamid  30:24  
With that out of the way, let's move on today was mentioned earlier was a busy day. That was two product introductions. The first was a vehicle that was supposed to show up at the New York Auto Show, which in April, which obviously didn't happen. And then the second was scheduled to debut at the Detroit Auto Show, or last week, which also for reasons we don't need to get into didn't happen. And there's actually going to be several more product introductions over the next several weeks, but let's start off with the Nissan Rogue, the 2021 Nissan Rogue and we both saw the online introductions of both of the vehicles we're going to talk about, would you think of the road.

Rebecca Lindland  31:06  
So I really liked the way the rogue looks. I think that it has more personality one more, but it has more presented than the previous version of it. For sure. And you know, this segment is really, really tough. Because there's, this is a compact SUV. There's a lot of competition in this segment. It's a it's the buyer doesn't always want a ton of personality in their car. This is kind of a you know, you that, that read in terms of like it's an appliance, like it's kind of like my this the way I get from A to B, but I feel like especially on the front end, they've done a really good job of introducing a new I think it's a new design language.

Sam Abuelsamid  31:53  
It's an updated version,

Rebecca Lindland  31:55  
a version of it, right? But um, you know, I think the headlamps are really cool. I just I think it looks really good. I'll be really curious to see what it looks like in person. But I think there's a lot of personality to it. It looks pretty modern and and very sharp lines. And I liked it. I think it looks cool.

Sam Abuelsamid  32:14  
Yeah. You know, I mean, this this segment, the compact crossover is, you know, aside from, you know, full size pickup trucks, which obviously rule the roost in North America. You know, this is the segment that has supplanted midsize sedans as the biggest mainstream segment in the US. Yeah, we're, you know, for 20 odd years. The Toyota Camry was the best selling car in North America in the US, and now it's the rav4. The rav4 sold, you know, over 400,000 units last year, and the rogue in 2018 sold 412,000 units dropped off to 350,000 last year. But, you know, this is this is an enormous segment and it's theirs. lot of competition in the segment. You got the rav4 the Honda CRV before to escape the Hyundai Tucson, the Kia Sportage, the Chevy Equinox, you know, even even the equinox which most people never even think about anymore. Yeah, I mentioned this even equinox, which hardly anybody thinks about. Yeah, sold 350,000 units last year. Yeah. I mean, it's it's an enormous product segment. And it's a really, it's really competitive in every

Rebecca Lindland  33:29  
man car. You know. It's, it's, it's got something for everybody. It's the right size. If you're a young family, if you're single, if you're an empty nester, it has so much utility and so much flexibility. And so it's, it's really hard to kind of stick out from the crowd in some ways, because and especially because the competition just keeps getting better and better. They're, they're making them more premium feeling and looking and they're just They're, you know, it's, it's an incredibly, incredibly competitive segment.

Sam Abuelsamid  34:05  
You know, when I, when I first saw the pictures of the rogue last week ahead of the background briefing that we got before the reveal today, you know, I looked at it, and, you know, it's immediately recognizable as a rogue. If you've seen the current generation rogue, you will immediately recognize this as the new rogue. Yes, sharper lines. You know, but, you know, the proportions are very similar, you know, especially the side glass shape, you know, the way kicks up at the back. Right. It's, it's totally a rogue. So my question to you is, you know, does it stand out enough, especially, you know, they talked about during the briefing, they talked about how this was inspired by the cross motion concept that they showed in Detroit two years ago. And, you know, I included a photo of the cross motion in my store. on Forbes. And, yes, there is some inspiration there. But you know that that concept was so much farther than this does, you know, this is really toned back from that concept.

Rebecca Lindland  35:14  
Yeah, but again, I feel like First of all, I think it's, I like the front end a lot. I think it looks really good. You know, I just had the Honda CRV hybrid that I talked about a previous episode. And even just comparing the two. I'm leaning a bit actually towards the rogue in terms of certainly evolutionary styling. I think that you know, when you think back years ago, the Nissan Murano when that came out, it may have been almost polarizing, in some ways, but that design was it. The original Murano was really beautiful, like it was very, very, there was there was a lot of personality to it. And I feel like Nissan kind of lost their way a little bit from a design standpoint that, like the quest was just too weird. You know, like there was they sort of went too far over. So I think that with the rogue, I think this is that right balance of it has enough personality for those shoppers that want that in their vehicle, but it doesn't have too much that it's going to be polarizer alienating. Maybe some people will consider the headlamps because they do sit kind of high up, but again, like they're not like, like how weird the Juke was, right? I mean, that was that's

Sam Abuelsamid  36:34  
not okay. That was nothing was hideous. It was a blast to dry. My gosh. It burned my eyes.

Rebecca Lindland  36:44  
It was not okay.

So I think that, you know, I think that the robe does that. It's, it's, it's interesting enough to, for people to realize that it's new and it's different. But I don't think that it's so weird that they're going to look and say, Oh my gosh, you know, that's not that's not good. So I like do you

Sam Abuelsamid  37:10  
think it's enough to grab people's attention away from the rest of the segment?

Rebecca Lindland  37:15  
Well, that's the biggest challenge, right? I mean, I do think that and they, they really need to do a better you know, advertising is so important in this kind of way to to remind people like what what it is, that makes Nissan different. So, you know, they're pro pilot assist, I think is really really cool. And they need to they need to work on their on their messaging of like, what they have and what and why. How is it? How is this different than then a CRV or why should you buy this instead? I mean, that's all marketing in my mind.

Sam Abuelsamid  37:59  
Yeah. You know, the the pro pilot assist, you know, this is one of the things that they did upgrade this year. So it's got a new generation of it was something they call with navvy link. So what it's doing is it's using the map data, the navigation map data to as an input to propilot. So it's not, it's not quite to the level of what Tesla claims with their navigate on autopilot system where, you know, you can set a destination and when you're on the highway, it will automatically take, you know, an interchange, you know, to go from one highway to another. But what it does do is like what GM does with supercruise, it looks a hat down the road at the curvature of earning radius of curves coming up in the road, and it will automatically adjust your set speed. So if you're coming up to a curve that's a little too tight for the speed you're going at, it'll automatically reduce your speed a little bit. You can get through that curve safely and stay in, it'll keep it in the lane, and then resume your speed afterwards. Similarly, you know, if you're going from one highway to another, you know, and you you get off on a ramp, it will, when you move off onto the off ramp, it will automatically lower your speed, it won't take you off, you know, off the road to the ramp. But when you do that manually, when you steer over there, it'll lower your speed until you get back onto the other highway and merge on then it'll resume your previous speed. And it's got speed limit assist, so it'll read the signs for speed limits and make those adjustments automatically as well. So it's got some it's got some definite upgrades to it, compared to what they had before, longer range sensing for the radar and a camera and various other improvements to the software. So it's definitely should be an upgrade but From a from a design standpoint, one other thing I wanted to mention one of the things that they they highlighted during the presentation was you know the what they call the the floating roof design and this is a theme that Nissan's had for the last several years since the current generation Murano came up, you know where it's typically been, you know, at the C pillar, you know, they'll put a black insert or to give this look of you know, the the back of the roof floating above the rest of the car. In this case, they did the reverse of that so they blacked out the eight pillars. And so you have a solid c pillar, you blacked out the blacked out the eight pillars. So the roof looks like it's floating at the front. But in addition to that, they also adopted the, the two tone roof option that they have on the kicks. So you can get a couple of different color combinations of lower body color and different different roof colors like you can on the kicks.

Rebecca Lindland  40:55  
I think it looks really cool. I like that it sort of reminds me of the Star Trek Enterprise where that the top part kind of jumped out like if you look at it, you know, like if you look

Unknown Speaker  41:06  
at it from the saucer section,

Rebecca Lindland  41:08  
right, yeah, exactly. You know, it has this It does. It has a very architectural feel to it. And, you know, I like that. I think that's really cool.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:19  
Yeah, that's a good luck. Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  41:23  
Yeah, I think it's I think it's neat.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:26  
And the, the, the one other thing that did bother me about this is that, you know, coming out this year in 2021. There's only one power train option. It's an upgraded version of their, their 2.5 liter four cylinder now, direct injection. So I think it's 188 horsepower. If I recall, which is you know, that's that's fine. You know, I mean, that's, that's certainly competitive with most of the rest of the segment. There's no v six or, you know, larger turbo four cylinder option. You know, so you don't have Anything that's going to go up against like the two liter EcoBoost and the escape or anything like that, but what they for four reasons that is that I don't understand they've opted not to have an electrified powertrain option. So there's no hybrid option available, which is really

Rebecca Lindland  42:15  
short sighted considering this heavy competition and others do.

Sam Abuelsamid  42:21  
Yeah, I mean, you look at especially Toyota. Yeah, the rav4. Yeah, is the top selling vehicle in this segment now, you know, 112,000 units, I think last year, and 100,000 of those were hybrids. rav4 hybrid was the best selling Toyota hybrid last year way outselling the Prius now, you know, one in four ravs in sold in the US last year were hybrids. And, you know, Ford is selling a lot of escape hybrids. I don't know. You know, the the CRV hybrids only been on sale for a short time so we don't have any numbers on that yet. But, you know, increasingly, everybody's offering hybrid and in the case of both Ford and Toyota plug in hybrids as well. And so, we, Dan and I talked about this on the last episode, you know, the Ford Escape Hybrid plug in hybrid, you know, got its EPA ratings to get 37 miles of electric range on the charge, and the rav4 plugins gonna get 42. Yeah, and, you know, no, no hybrid option at all for the road, which i think i think is going to be a mistake.

Rebecca Lindland  43:30  
Well, I think it will, it's certainly not going to draw more buyers to them because they'll have competition. So people that are looking for a hybrid will immediately discount right and go someplace else. Now, historically, hybrid sales have been very, very small percentage of the general market, but as you say, again, this type of vehicle this size vehicle, is is for a practical, utility oriented A consumer. That is your fuel economy is often something that they look at, it's not their number one priority, obviously. But if you can get all this utility and get a hybrid with it as well, they're going to do that. I mean, that's, you know, and that's where I think that Nissan really is missing out. So I'm surprised that they wouldn't have especially, you know, their, their competitive intelligence should have told them that, you know, key players, In this segment, we're going to offer a hybrid and so it's really a glaring omission in many ways. It wouldn't have been if he just even just a few years ago that

Sam Abuelsamid  44:46  
Yeah, it definitely it's, it's definitely something much more prominent now. And you know, when you when you look at the sales figures, you know, for the competitors you know, it's it's not an insignificant, take rate.

Rebecca Lindland  45:00  
Right, right, is it? Well, and that's the thing is that is that there may not be a lot of people that say, I want a hybrid CRV like that verbalize that, but then when they're shopping it, and they look and they're like, well, wow, I can get a hybrid version of this, then that's going to be something that they're going to gravitate towards. And so, and again, you know, if you when you're shopping in this, the mindset of this buyer is very practically practical oriented. So they put together one of those, like comparison charts, you know, like a lot of websites will do for you. And this comes up in fuel economy, you see the difference in, in fuel economy. That's it. I think it's really going to be a disadvantage for them. I think they're gonna lose sales because of it.

Sam Abuelsamid  45:46  
Yeah. Well, it'll, it'll be interesting to see how this one does. You know, it's not gonna be out until later in the fall. And we'll, we'll watch this one. We'll see how it goes. So one more product launch today came from Toyota, actually from Lexus, which was the new 2021 Lexus IS and we actually just watched this reveal on YouTube live about an hour or so ago. What did you think?

Rebecca Lindland  46:21  
Well, I went first on on the road so I think you should go first on this one.

Sam Abuelsamid  46:26  
Okay, so remember what I said about the robe looking familiar. Yes, this one really look familiar. You may in fact, if you don't look closely, you may have a hard time telling the difference between this and the current generation is which is not not a bad thing. Yeah, I like I like the is I like the way it looks. You know, this one. You know, it's a very subtle from a design standpoint, a very subtle update. You know, and a little more this time like the the Lexus RC Got a little bit more, a little more prominent shoulder you know the recorders like the RC and you know the the rear glass the rear roofline goes back extends back almost to the rear edge of the deck lid. So there's an even shorter deck lid than there is on the current generation is still rear wheel drive still basically the same size, the same wheelbase but one inch longer overall. But, you know, you will immediately recognize this as an updated it looks from a design standpoint externally it looks more like a mid cycle refresh than an all new design. But, you know, I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing. I think it's a great looking car. And I think it's, you know, I personally I, I like the size of the is, you know, I'm not a huge fan of really big cars. You know, so I like I like this the size and the launching See, initially as the is 300 with the two liter, turbo four cylinder and the is 350 with 3.5 liter V six that's also in the current generation is. And then there's going to be an F SPORT and presumably at some point maybe an ISF. Again, we don't know for sure.

Rebecca Lindland  48:21  
Yeah, I mean, I think it's funny because the front looks exactly the same. I mean, you really have to look for stuff that I do like the rear tail lamps. I think they look cool. Again, I, I'm hoping that when you actually when we get a chance, actually feel the car and run our hands over it and feel some of the lines that they were talking about, that they'll be more visible, because certainly, you know, online on YouTube or whatever. It's not immediately apparent that this is a brand new vehicle. The design language is exactly this. Yeah, I mean, it really is. You know, I'm Just sitting here staring at it. And it looks exactly the same.

Sam Abuelsamid  49:07  
Like I said that, not that that's a bad thing.

Rebecca Lindland  49:12  
But Wow, I mean, it's really

Sam Abuelsamid  49:14  
funny. The funny thing was during the presentation, they did make a big deal out of the design. Yes. And I'm sitting here looking at it, you know, I've got, I've got the video of the reveal going on one screen in front of me. And I'm looking at the website looking at pictures of the 2020 is on the other side, I'm looking back and forth. Okay, what

Rebecca Lindland  49:39  
it's like when people get a failed Botox, you're like, wait, I don't see the difference. It's just, I mean, as you say, it's a good looking car. I'm sure it's a blast to drive, especially if they, you know, there was some nice tuning but it's there's just there's not really a significant difference.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:01  
The interior, a more substantial upgrade though.

Rebecca Lindland  50:06  
The interior is beautiful, it does still have that stupid touchpad I'm stealing your line from our message. But and you're the it also

Sam Abuelsamid  50:13  
has a touchscreen. So you don't have to. Presumably you don't have to use the touchpad. Okay, that makes me happy. Yeah. Welcome back.

Rebecca Lindland  50:24  
No, I think the interior is gorgeous. I mean, they they're showing it in black and red. And I think it's it's great looking. I personally, that's a personal preference. I prefer an integrated screen. But otherwise, you know, I know faulted. I think it looks really nice.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:40  
The you know, what I thought was fascinating was during the presentation and I went looked at the press photos afterwards and it matched up, you know, they, they talked about this new 10.3 inch touchscreen. And they talked about and it's got Apple CarPlay and Android Auto and you know, integrated Amazon Alexa. And they never once showed they showed the CarPlay screen. They showed the Android Auto screen. They never once showed the stock Lexus infotainment screen. Right. None of the images. There's one one image in the press kit that has just the alexus boot up screen, but they never show the stock. Is that my guess is because most people probably don't like it. I have no idea how much it's changed. We can't tell because we haven't seen it. You know, certainly the current gen. You know, any current generation Lexus? Nobody. I don't know anybody who's a particular fan of the Lexus enform infotainment system.

Rebecca Lindland  51:43  
Yeah, it's horrible.

Sam Abuelsamid  51:44  
Yeah. So you know, I don't know how much if at all, they've changed it. It still has the touchpad which nobody particularly likes either. So we'll we'll just have to wait and see when you know when they show us more detail, but that was it. Interesting touched, they opted not to show us that but show the other stuff.

Rebecca Lindland  52:04  
Yeah, no, that is her. That's a good catch for sure. I mean, I think, you know, again, it's, it's, I'll be very, very interested to see it in person. Because even looking at like the main picture, I'm not even picking up on some of the new stuff that he talked about with the outline and stuff like, it's really hard to discern online without looking at it. The body differences.

Sam Abuelsamid  52:33  
Yeah, it's definitely subtle. I mean, I think you can, if you look at the facia of the current one and the new one side by side, you can see there's a bit of reshaping of this spindle grille. You know, the bottom part of it is a little more rounded, rather than just you know, straight trapezoidal. And, you know, the outer portions of the Fisher are a little bit different, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's very much, you know, interesting Mental update. Yeah, it's not it's not a radical rethink of Lexus design language. Yeah. And, you know, I mean of the current Lexus design language, you know, it's picked up a few details maybe from the the LC coupe and the new LS. And, you know, that's a good thing. But you know, it's it's very much incremental.

Rebecca Lindland  53:20  
It is but you know, we'll see how it looks in person and I don't see what happens. I don't know. I'll be you know, it's I mean, they've kept a lot of the heritage show it is still real job that 2.0 liter engine so you know, there's it's I think it'll still be a lot of fun to to thrash around and

Sam Abuelsamid  53:41  
yeah, no, it should be good. And they also released Alexis AR play app, which we'll put a link to in the in the show notes that you can, I haven't downloaded it, but I haven't actually played with it yet. To see. You know, you can kind of walk around To check out the car and a little more detail. And they also they talked about any of this is the first Lexus to debut the Lexus driving signature, which it's not entirely clear what that is, presumably, it's kind of just the whole feel of the car. And you know, this is kind of the direction they're going with Lexus make it a little more sporty than before.

Rebecca Lindland  54:21  
They need it. They need it. Yeah. I mean, they do. You know, they've been so dependent upon the baby boomers for so long. And they need to have something that pulls people in, like sort of, you know, like, we were talking about what the world like, give me a reason to buy this car, especially with the declining demand for cars. You've got to give a consumer a good reason to buy this thing. And obviously, the design language is not at, you know, the new because there's not enough of a difference. So they've got to get something from the driving standpoint, then that

Sam Abuelsamid  54:58  
that pulls people in Yeah, absolutely. So let's, that's about it for now for the is that's, you know, you know, the whole presentation was about 15 minutes and unlike, you know, traditional in person presentations, we haven't had a chance to walk around and poke around the interior or talk to the executives afterwards and learn more about their thinking. But it's, you know, I think it's, I'm cautiously optimistic about this one, I think it'll be pretty good, especially if they can infuse it with some of the same kind of fun to drive that's in the LC in particular. Yeah. And is that into the same in the LC is so great to drive? It is. Yeah. And this is a, you know, a much, much more accessible price point, you know, starting in the mid 30s. You know, that it should be it should be.

Rebecca Lindland  55:54  
Yeah, it will be you know, one thing I did want to and I mentioned this to you earlier on slack Do I one generate at least one generation ago? I think it was 2016 that I remember driving the IRS and there was the bump out for the for the transmission. And I thought well, yeah. And it was from it being

Sam Abuelsamid  56:21  
like on the on the floor, or on the

Rebecca Lindland  56:23  
side, it was on the side, oh, my knee hitting something. And then I looked and they actually kept, they kept the so so when you sit in the driver's seat, what's on the left hand side is definitely my right knee, like where it like more. And it was and then somebody said was because it was designed for right hand drive, and they basically just took the steering wheel and put it on left hand side and they didn't move this bump, whatever it was causing this bump. So that's something that again, like I I will when we get a chance to see the car that's first thing I'll do is to look to see if they've done a full adaptation for this market and for for left hand drive.

Sam Abuelsamid  57:07  
Yeah, I don't remember that being an issue but drove and is Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  57:12  
but you wouldn't have felt it like I did though because my seats up further. Okay. So that was one of the things was that taller drivers, their their calf is, is just, it's almost straighter and lower, whereas mine would be like right at that point. So, so taller drivers were much less apt to notice. Then somebody my size, so it'll be curious to say Good job. Yeah, they did a good job with the online presentation though.

Sam Abuelsamid  57:43  
It was Yeah, I'd like to remember was, it was the the Hyundai Elantra. Andre lotrel. On this was very early on and the lockdown This was in late March, early April. You know, Hyundai did there. They did an online reveal. And they basically did the presentation that they would do a live event, except it was, you know, it was in an empty studio. And there was, you know, obviously no audience there. Right. It was really weird and they were doing the same show, they would have done an auto show or you know, had a media that would just nobody there was this one, you know, they had a bunch of pre recorded segments. They added it all together. You know, they had Townsend Bell and Dave Crist from Lincoln, Lexus. Townsend Bell drives one of the Lexus RCS in the MC GTD class. And so, you know, it was it was well, well executed this time around, but I'll be curious, there's, you know, we're going to be seeing a bunch of other ones you know, last week for the road Nissan, just Yeah, it was a media only one. They just did a zoom call, video zoom call and did the presentation on there. And Ford's got a couple of reveals coming up over the next few weeks with new f 150. The next week or the week after

Rebecca Lindland  59:15  
that, I think

Sam Abuelsamid  59:16  
that that's on the 23rd of June, and then the Broncos coming up on July 9, right. So curious to see what they do with those two, for sure. For sure. All right. All right. Well, thank you so much, everybody, and keep tuning in and we'll have more content for you. Thanks, everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai