Dan Roth  0:04  
This is wheel bearings. I'm Dan Roth from Forbes. 

Rebecca Lindland  0:08  
I'm Rebecca land from Rebecca drives

Dan Roth  0:10  
We're a little tighter this week. That's good.

Sam Abuelsamid  0:12  
And I'm Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights.

Dan Roth  0:15  
All right, well, welcome to the show everybody. Let's get to what we're driving to. It's hot in here. So I want to I want to go so let's let's talk cars. What's in our garage? Sam, you go first. All right,

Sam Abuelsamid  0:27  
I had the 2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Coupe. Which is, you know, the, that unicorn of automobiles that everybody has been dreaming about for probably close to 60 years now. And it's finally real the mid engine Corvette. Don Sherman, you know, has been writing about this thing since the early 1970s. And it seemed like every few years, GM was finally going to pull the plug and actually build a mid engine Corvette. They kept bringing out concept after concept, but they never did it. Till now, and it's good, it's really good as cars of this type go. It's an amazing bargain. Yeah, I think all of us were kind of shocked last summer, when they revealed this thing and said, yeah, it's gonna start at $60,000. And the next closest thing you can get to a car like this, you know, is something like the Acura NSX or the Audi er eight, both of which, you know, the NSX starts at about 160. Now, I think the rates about 140 or 150 these days, so this is less than half the price of those cars and easily offers comparable performance to those vehicles or to almost anything else shy of like the, you know, the really high end hypercars the one I had was a base model. With all season Michelin Pilot sports so not even summer tires. And I took it out, you know how to sport my I didn't put, you know, not even in track mode. I didn't use launch control or anything, I just put it in sport mode so I could get the timer up. And I was on a rural road, nobody, nobody behind me on a slight uphill slope. And I just stepped on the gas and it went from zero to 60 in 3.3 seconds. You know, this is, you know, straight out of the box. And I found that they

Rebecca Lindland  2:23  
gave you a base model. That's awesome.

Dan Roth  2:25  
I think. Yeah, I think it's great that they're given. I know Steven urine had a base model too. And a I think it looks and feels Well, you have to tell us about the field but it looks great in base model form. How does it feel?

Sam Abuelsamid  2:38  
It feels great. You know, I know. Tim Stevens from CNET from roadshow had a z 51. Last week, Jill sim anello had a Z 51 and Chicago as well. But you know, this, this base one, you know, there's not a whole lot of reasons to to upgrade the The only options on the car I had were the performance exhaust, which is like 1200. dollars. And the $400 raised the torch red seat belt. So the seat belt seat belt color matched the body color. Who know what no other options on, Molly

Rebecca Lindland  3:19  
about their confidence in the vehicle that they're willing to put that, that trim into the press fleet.

Sam Abuelsamid  3:26  
That cars. Yeah, I mean, we almost never get base models of any race even, you know, even entry level cars. Yeah, it's always, you know, the mid level the premium models.

Rebecca Lindland  3:36  
Well, and somehow I swung an invite to the launch out in Vegas, and they had they had base models there for us to drive as well. You know, I mean, yeah, the one that I drove was 85,000. So clearly not the base, but just the fact that they had people in them just says it says a lot. It really is. It has to be respected.

Sam Abuelsamid  3:59  
Yeah. You know, to be fair to Chevrolet, right now there's only one powertrain option. So you know, regardless of whether you get the base model or or the the top trim level, you're still getting the same 495 horsepower 6.2 liter smallblock latest generation of the small block, and that eight speed dual clutch transmission. So that's, that's in all of them right now next year, there's 06 coming, which reportedly will have a flat plane crank v eight, similar to the one that's in the car cars that are running in the IMSA Sportscar Championship this year. But aside from that, there's there's you know, the only other real performance changes to you know, that are available right now are you know, in the Z 51 package, you can get the the magneride dampers and you can get upgraded, you can get summer tires, and I think there's a 20 inch wheel option, you know, but then, you know, there's a bunch of other options. You can Get as well, but they don't really impact the performance of the car. Yeah. So basically again, even at the base level, you're getting the same level of performance, which is pretty remarkable. And unlike the first Corvette I ever drove was actually set about 30 years ago when I was still when I just started working as an engineer was working for GM at the at the Milford Proving Grounds. And I had a chance I was I was one along company a car from our team Lotus Esprit turbo from the group that I worked in for a benchmark drives that the Corvette team was doing going across that

Dan Roth  5:39  
murdered it.

Sam Abuelsamid  5:42  
Not necessarily you know, they they had the the CIF two c fours a base z 51 c four and the LT five CR one which had the the Lotus Twin Cam v eight in it, and they also had an actual NSX which was the only time I ever drove the first gen NSX. But, you know, those cars so see for Corvettes were such crude beasts. In those days, they had a big clamshell hood, you know, so the whole front half of the car basically flipped up. And when you're driving down the road, you could see the whole thing shaking. And it was it was ridiculous.

Dan Roth  6:19  
I mean, it's part of a GM charm.

Sam Abuelsamid  6:22  
Well, this, this car just feels so sophisticated. I mean, it's solid as a rock. Even with the top off the roof panel off solid as a rock, you know, no vibration, no flexing that you feel at all. Even without the magneride dampers, the ride quality was actually surprisingly good. I mean, it's not it's not, you know, Genesis g 90, you know, smooth, you know, soaking up I know what it was, it wasn't punishing, either. You know, it was it was quite a comfortable ride. It could this could easily be a daily driver, because that was one of the questions that somebody posed on Twitter. Could this be a daily driver and I like apps salutely it could be and it's also got a surprising amount of cargo space between the front trunk and then the rear. Just for for giggles I opened up the rear and just to see if I could fit my inflatable paddleboard in the back and I actually could I flip my I put my stand up inflatable paddleboard in the in the rear trunk and close the lid and it fit perfectly but

Dan Roth  7:22  
how much does it power

Unknown Speaker  7:28  
up a trailer and it does haul ass.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:35  
The seats in this thing are great. I'm still, shall we say unconvinced about the whole wall of buttons that I'm going to ask you. I think that that's a I think that was a stupid design design decision. I think that if anything they should have cut that down and just put a panel of buttons next to the the touchscreen, the center touchscreen, or because Well, the problem the problem with the the way it's set up that role buttons, you know, longitudinal row buttons on there is they're not really readily distinguishable without looking at them. And actually, if you're if you're driving with the roof panel off and the sun is shining down, you also can't see the lights on them to see if they're on or off and the the markings on them are backlit so the black buttons with backlit buttons markings on there. So you know it's it's actually hard to see what it is you're hitting, you know, when you're when you're trying to adjust, you know, the climate control or anything. So it's I think it's just not functionally not a not a great design, but that's a relatively minor quibble, considering how good everything else is about this car.

Rebecca Lindland  8:40  
So when I drove drove it I compared that that wall of buttons It reminded me of like the puritanical beds where they like put like a long pillow or something in between a couple with so that they can touch each other if they're not married yet, like Wasn't that we learned it, we learned the term wow in like studying colonial times, and I just can't remember what it's called. But it's like a bolster, like, in the middle. There's no Hanky Panky going on in that corpus.

Dan Roth  9:16  
It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be a new Corvette, if it didn't have a questionable choice of, you know, interior. Something. Fair

Rebecca Lindland  9:26  
enough. I mean, I will say that, you know, after a while, so Henry Paine was my driving partner. And you know, after a while it does. It does limit it. I mean, it kind of fades away a little bit, but I still felt like I was in the sidecar. Right as opposed

Sam Abuelsamid  9:44  
Yeah, no, I can. I can definitely believe that,

Rebecca Lindland  9:46  
you know, you're sort of this like, Oh, okay. You know, there's a passenger there. We have to make room for them. But,

Sam Abuelsamid  9:53  
yeah, that's, that would definitely be

Rebecca Lindland  9:56  
and I also thought it was very ironic that you know, it's it's very Similar to what Porsche has like in the Cayenne and the makaan, with all those buttons, and yet, the tie icon is like no buttons, like they've gone completely away from it. So it was just kind of funny to me that all the sudden Corvette comes out with all these buttons just as Porsche is moving away from them.

Dan Roth  10:17  
But at least they're not like, at least it's not like a touchscreen, or at least their buttons.

Sam Abuelsamid  10:22  
Yeah, that's true. They are they are physical buttons, even if they are almost impossible to distinguish from each other. But if I was if I was buying one of these, I would, I think I'd probably step up to the to LTE model mainly because, you know, in the one lt the base model, you you don't get any Driver Assist features at all, which you know, for the most part is fine I can do without adaptive cruise control and Lane Keeping Assist and things like that in here. But given the width of this car, you know how low you sit in it, you know, in those big rear fenders. I think it would be good. And I think the GM really should have made things like blind spot monitoring standard equipment on the base model. I don't think that that should be in the up level term. I think it should be standard in the base model. And also the the rear camera mirror system, I think also would have been helpful. Yeah, you know, just for better visibility straight out the back and it's actually given the size of the back window, you know, over the the engine, you can actually see a surprising amount, although you don't see anything over your shoulders. You know, if you glance over your shoulders, you know, the rear three quarters because you've got huge pillars there. But straight back, you can actually see a surprising amount, but I think I would rather have the that camera mirror and blind spot monitors as as standard equipment in the base model. Given, you know, the visibility challenges of a car of this configuration.

Rebecca Lindland  11:51  
It's so funny, because I made that exact point that it's a 1500 dollar rear rear camera view option. That really should be standard equipment. Because it do there isn't a lot of visibility on that thing at all.

Sam Abuelsamid  12:03  
No, no. Yeah. But then again you can see you can see ahead of you great which given you know how fast it goes is the roof panel you know as Corvettes have been for decades now you know it's a it's a target top. So the roof panels removable and the roof panel is really lightweight, very easy to you know for one person to handle by themselves you don't need help, very lightweight roof and then you can put it and stash it in the rear trunk and there's little pockets there where you slide it into the bottom into the pockets at the at the base of the trunk and then just snap it in at the top so it doesn't rattle around at all. Of course when you do that you lose most of that rear trunk space but you still have the front trunk where you know if you're going to the grocery store, you can throw a couple bags of groceries in there. You know or on a weekend road trip. Yeah, you can fit a you know duffel bag with few days worth of clothes in there. So It still remains a surprisingly practical car for what it is.

Rebecca Lindland  13:04  
Yeah. I love how proud they are of the Corvette and I think they should be I think they deserve to show it off. And the putting the base model out there just shows how fundamentally good they're all they all are. They had a lot of a lot of stuff to a lot of details to really figure out with making the managing Corvette and making it for the price. And certainly the performance that it delivers. makes it all worth it. You know, that's it's just a, you know, we waited for 50 years for it. It's finally here. And I I'm assuming it lives up to the weight, you know, I will have to sort of reserve my judgment for driving it but I don't know you guys seem a little bit more lucky out there than I am out here. So

I think for them yeah, I think for the most part people are really happy with it.

Sam Abuelsamid  13:57  
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't complain You know, to get a car with this kind of performance. And I mean, the design is really grown on me. I actually liked this design better than the C seven. The C six is still probably my favorite modern Corvette, but the the C seven, you know was less enamored with it. The design was not the design was a little busy, especially the back end. But this one really works for me. So Sam and I got I got a lot of comments from people, you know, when I went to the store or just people walking by seeing it in my driveway that

Rebecca Lindland  14:30  
So Sam, how are sales of it? I don't know if you know off the top of your head.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:36  
I don't you know, it's kind of hard to judge because they don't report them basically. Well, they do but we're on sale. Yeah, they report quarterly and you know, went on sale in volume in January. They had a few sales in December. You know and then you know January is obviously not the best time for Corvette sales you know, more Spring Summer car right and then you Then the pandemic hit. So I think it's hard. It's hard to judge right now, what, how, what the sales are going to be. They did cut off orders on the 2020s. Back in June, because they're basically at that point, they were, you know, they had enough to fulfill all of what they were going to do for the 2020 model year. And then they started taking orders for 21 models. Oh, wow.

Rebecca Lindland  15:22  
Okay, this is gonna be an interesting year, you know, it's the first year of the car and these usually significant changes between, you know, the first first year of a new Corvette model, and, you know, the subsequent few years, and then it's just going to be a rare car anyway, given whatever else has gone on this year. It's been rather eventful. So, I think that the 2020 car is going to be a rare car, whether that means is more valuable. I don't, I don't think is anything we really know. But I think it's going to be one of those cars that you don't see as many of just because they're bored. That many made.

Sam Abuelsamid  16:01  
Yeah, well that so I just pulled up Jim's second quarter sales report they sold 6279 in the US in the first six months of the year, which is down 35% from last year when they're still selling c 790 700. Last year. But you know, given the situation you know, that's that's about what what we would expect any

Rebecca Lindland  16:22  
Cadillac sedans that they sell for

Sam Abuelsamid  16:27  
less than that. They sold 2500 ct sixes and 5500 ct fives in the first half. Yeah.

Dan Roth  16:38  
So a CT five is doing better than I thought. I mean,

Sam Abuelsamid  16:42  
yeah, yeah, it's doing better than the CTS was last year. CTS did 4800 in the first half last year, and this is 5500.

Dan Roth  16:50  
So that is niche model volume.

Sam Abuelsamid  16:53  
It's off, you know, it's off to a reasonable start. Good, that's awesome. And I'm driving I actually have the CT five and The driveway this week, which we'll talk about next time. All right. But yeah, but you know, just the, the other. The other thing about Corvettes is, you know, driven sanely they're actually surprisingly fuel efficient. You know, and this was true of the C six and the C seven as well. You know, this one, you know, it's rated at C 1515. City 27 Highway 19 combined. I actually got about 22 combined. And I was getting about 29 on the highway.

Rebecca Lindland  17:34  
15 minutes a big gap 15 to 27. Yeah, city. Yeah, it is.

Sam Abuelsamid  17:40  
Probably something about the way they've got got it all calibrated, you know more for performance and fuel economy. The sticker price was 61,005 85 including delivery. So that's the base base price, plus the 1200, dollar performance exhaust and $400 portrait seat belts. That's a big deal. That's amazing. Bam that's just there's nothing even remotely close to that for that price point.

Dan Roth  18:05  
I'm I hope that they send it to me

Sam Abuelsamid  18:08  
at some point they're waiting to send you the new zR one with the the twin turbo V eight. I'll take it.

Rebecca Lindland  18:15  
I think that's fine murder is relatively straight. I think there was a quarter mile between maybe a half mile between stop signs. That's fine all right so Rebecca you were driving something a little bit more sedate but still a good time you hit the Genesis g 70.

I did. I did you know, this is one of those cars. You know, we always try and like guess how much a car is right like they drop it off. You're looking at it and thinking, you know, we always have a range but I was really pleasantly surprised having driven this car having experienced it at again, like that value, like what you're getting for the money is actually really good with this Genesis g 70. I had the rear wheel drive version, it had prestige. So it was more towards the top of the line. Personal pet peeve, I find the Genesis website, the consumer facing Genesis website, really hard to manipulate So, and I think I'm pretty sure it's pretty close to the top of the line. It had a couple of features had the elite package, which is 40 $600 and that's the eight inch touchscreen. power folding, auto dimming outside mirrors. It's got the tilt and telescope steering wheel and heated front seats which actually comes standard and all wheel drive, which is nice because that's typically a weather kind of related thing. And and then I had really nice culture leather interior. It also has the prestige package for almost 30 $900 that has the heads up display, which I didn't really find to be particularly compelling. I've had other vehicles like the BMW i x five or x three that I had that that did a heads up display a little But better than that, but this had eight or so a variety of really nice features in it. So one of the things that I thought as I'm driving this is just that it's a kind of it's one of those vehicles that if you want it to go fast, it will happily go fast. But if you just want to have a good solid commuting car that makes you feel like you've that you've earned your keep this is that car this you know it's a size it's about the size of a three series computer like the Mercedes three series and the and the C class Mercedes, I'm sorry Mercedes C class BMW three series, and, but it's just kind of like no drama like I just, I sat in it, I started driving it. We were up to triple digits ever so briefly, and then it just was really well behaved. And I appreciate that. Sometimes I'm really curvy roads here. I could push it and I it would respond happily. I had the 2.0 liter there is the 2.0 liter for sale. In line four, there is a 3.3 liter B six, which of course is even more fun, but you know, 252 horsepower horses, it just did exactly what I wanted it to do and I just felt really comfortable in it. Almost from the very beginning things were where I wanted them to be. And I just I like that kind of experience. I don't want to fight with my car. You know what I mean? Like I just

Sam Abuelsamid  21:24  
yeah, this just makes sense of adventure.

Rebecca Lindland  21:27  
Yes, there are some weeks when it is definitely an adventure. You're right.

So how does it feel like when you're actually exercising it right um, you know, through some some curves or you know, making it making it perform like a sports sedan. Does it feel like all the pieces sort of are connected and talking to each other? Does it feel kind of sloppy?

No, I found it to be, you know, lunching into a tight turn. It wanted to go there. It was happy to go there. I felt like it was that sports sedan that it Everything was was tight and with me and I never felt like even though it was rear wheel drive I never felt like I was losing the back end I never felt like I was you know gonna have any issues with it it just it was just like a good car it was very quiet on the on the highway when I you know at speed and just fun to dry. It was just, it was it was one of those cars that if you do as I said, if you just want to do day to day that's great. But for those times when you want to blow off a little steam, it will happily be a partner in that crime.

Sam Abuelsamid  22:36  
Yeah, I think there's no crime and blowing

Rebecca Lindland  22:39  
no crime.

I think chicken on its own it is it's it's good and satisfying. I think where I've seen it fall down because I really liked the G 70. And I was impressed with it when I drove it. I had it with the V six I think a while ago, but I think where I've been surprised to see it fall down is in direct comparison tests with like the three series

Oh and I haven't driven a three series or C class lately

he right and i think that you if you drive them back to back to back yeah the nuance really comes out more but I was really surprised like the last Car and Driver comparison tests I've read where the the Genesis just got dinged for for just not having all the parts but not not doing it as well as the Germans are as well as BMW three series one the test because of course did but

Sam Abuelsamid  23:38  
I think wouldn't be a car driver comparable if it wasn't

Rebecca Lindland  23:42  
I wonder if it's like it's actually kind of nuanced differences or if it's just, you know, the g7 he feels good enough most of the time for most of us and and it's that last little bit that the next one will get you know,

it's funny because it goes Because I have been, the current driver review that I read actually said that rivals such as the Mercedes C class and three series are either not as fun to drive or not as ritually appointed. And so cost more.

Dan Roth  24:14  
Yeah. All right. Well, so, again, it's that classic. It's an

Unknown Speaker  24:19  
opinion point.

Rebecca Lindland  24:20  
Right? Yeah. I mean, I like and when you compare the cars as well, you know, like when you're, when you're driving them, like you got a group of four or five cars, versus like taking it on its own. I think it is true objectively. There's just a ton of value in the job as

well and and to not keep our listeners any more in suspense. So this had a price tag delivered of under $45,000 $45,000. I mean, that's a really good price for

Sam Abuelsamid  24:49  
and how much was that infinity q 50. You had the other way,

Rebecca Lindland  24:52  
but any q 50 was more I believe, let me go to my handy dandy silver

Sam Abuelsamid  24:59  
as soon as like it silverfit Rebecca

Rebecca Lindland  25:00  
drives website and look.

Sam Abuelsamid  25:04  
Yeah, I think that's it Rebecca drives.

Rebecca Lindland  25:07  
Exactly. Oh no. 60,000 Oh, because it was the red Port 400 it was 60,004 75. Now that did have the 3.0 liter V six engine and so, so the, the Genesis comparable is probably in that price range. I but, you know, I can't say that I sat there and thought, Gosh, I wish I had the Q 50. You know,

Dan Roth  25:35  
and the other things that Jimmy was saying that.

Rebecca Lindland  25:40  
The other thing that was interesting that actually just coincidentally came out at the same time was this report by owners of genesis of strategic vision is a company that actually our listeners if you bought a new car, you may have gotten the survey from them. They are it's a new car buyer survey and they asked consumers You know, what do they think of their vehicle, but they periodically will do special reports. So this was actually the first strategic vision brand equity index. And it basically it asks current and prospective owners, how they feel about their vehicles. And so Genesis actually scored the highest of any brand of any, any brand overall in for, for confidence, for smart choice and for refinement in terms of owner so the ownership experience that people are having is very, very positive for them. And I thought that was just such great news for people that have a Genesis, it tells us that you know, the the owners aren't regretting their decision. They're really really happy with it. And you know, non owners of course, Mercedes was that was number one in terms of overall for for confidence and for refinement. But That's a perception. What's interesting about the ownership is that's their reality. That's how they feel in their vehicles. And so I thought that was just really such great news for Genesis as it continues to define itself to get itself on the map. And I think we've said all along with the products are there, it's just they've got to work on the on the brand perception, and their current owners can really be advocates for that for the brand to improve on the sales and perception.

Sam Abuelsamid  27:32  
Well, somebody has to be an advocate for the brand, because, you know, there's not that many dealers and, you know, they're kind of, they're kind of hard to find. So if owners are willing to speak up and, you know, we've certainly seen the power of, of, you know, voice, you know, voice of the owners or, you know, you know, just customers, the testimony for a car, when you look at a brand like Tesla Yes. Tesla doesn't do any traditional advertising you know and they rely completely on you know the the voice of the community to amplify you know the the message of the company and it's worked great for them so hopefully it'll work for for Genesis well

Dan Roth  28:14  
but Genesis The one thing that they're missing is Genesis doesn't have a figurehead at the top of that brand doing outrageous shit all the time. In the news, getting all kinds of earned media.

Sam Abuelsamid  28:25  
Yeah, that is very true.

Rebecca Lindland  28:26  
Genesis needs to work on that for sure. That will write a lot higher asshole

Dan Roth  28:29  
and you guys sell more cars.

Sam Abuelsamid  28:33  
I think Bob Lutz deals would be willing to come out of retirement.

Dan Roth  28:38  
No, no did I did not infer that Mr. months. I was not

Sam Abuelsamid  28:43  
saying that either. I was just saying he could be a great figurehead. That's true. That's true. Bob isn't

Rebecca Lindland  28:47  
evil. he's a he's a product guy. He's got he's got a touchy. He could probably, you know, be a good advisor for the brand. But I think they know what they're doing. I just think that they're also stuck now. They got Slow, awkward a little bit. And I also I, you know, puzzlingly, they've got half of it down. Right? I'm puzzled that I you don't really see or hear about Genesis, they're not tooting their own horn as much as I think they should.

Sam Abuelsamid  29:14  
Yeah, I think part of the problem is the fact that you know, they came up with three sedans are still waiting on the GVA. crossovers? Yeah, I think Yeah, they pushed the push back the launch a little bit because of the pandemic, but should be coming up in the next few weeks or a month or so.

Dan Roth  29:33  
So I think, like, I don't know how they when they decided to split off and make Genesis its own brand. Like they had some lead time. I don't know how they got stuck with three sedans why they didn't

Rebecca Lindland  29:44  
Well, there was a lot of internal politics. I mean, because sedans rule a day in Korea. Right. And so when you're on the streets of Seoul, Genesis is is like a Mercedes over there. Yeah. You know, And there was a lot of back and forth when it came to the dealer network. You know, they only gave the brand to certain dealers and then they they wanted them to have their own dealership. I mean, it was just there's been a lot of anger and internal politics.

Sam Abuelsamid  30:19  
The Genesis six exist as a standalone brand in other markets or is it only here in North America?

Rebecca Lindland  30:26  
I believe it's a standalone in other in other markets as well. I think it's a standalone in Korea, certainly.

Sam Abuelsamid  30:33  
Okay. Yeah, I think I wasn't sure if they're still branding them as Hyundai's and Korean No,

Rebecca Lindland  30:38  
well, and one of the things that was interesting in this in the g7 D, is that there's actually a seat adjusters on built into the passenger side. So as the driver I can just reach over and I can adjust the passenger side seat so that if somebody's sitting in the backseat, I can move that up easily enough which is so funny, because That's certainly not. I mean, it was convenient for me because at one point my visibility was kind of compromised by just a way that the road was sloping. I was I was backing down my driveway, but I just kind of had to laughs I thought that's never something that you typically see in the States.

Dan Roth  31:14  
Yeah, I would. So this The thing is, is a fundamental downfall of central planning. Right? Like, if you want to sell cars in the US, you will sell the kind of cars that people buy in the US.

Rebecca Lindland  31:24  
Well, yeah, I mean, in a perfect world, they would have had the gvhd especially because Hyundai has such fantastic SUVs. I mean, their SUVs are really, really good. So they had basis for them. And just on a structural note, IKEA, even though they're owned by Hyundai is completely separate in the US. So they are a totally separate corporate entity. they're seen as fierce

Sam Abuelsamid  31:48  
from a marketing and retail perspective. They're completely set up right

Rebecca Lindland  31:51  
and they're seen as genuine and productive. They're

Sam Abuelsamid  31:53  
very much in very much entwined, I'm sorry, from from an engineering and product development perspective. They're very much

Rebecca Lindland  32:01  
back in Korea they are. But

Sam Abuelsamid  32:03  
no, yeah, and here, you know, like the Hyundai Tech Center, the Hyundai American tech center here, like five minutes from my house. You know, they do work on Hyundai's and Kias, that's actually the Hyundai Motor Group tech center now that

Rebecca Lindland  32:18  
they are not, I was told by them that they were not allowed to talk to each other that like, the Hyundai people couldn't find out what was in the Yeah. Tell you right

Sam Abuelsamid  32:28  
on on on the on the marketing side. They're not. But from an from, I mean, within the building there, you know, there might be some divisions, but you know, I mean, they're working on you know, they're doing the the engine work that the chassis development work, all the all the product development work is happening in the same building for all actually all three brands.

Rebecca Lindland  32:52  
Okay, that's gonna be weird, but they were just very, they were emphatic when we were on the key launch for the telluride that they were separate. Company. Oh,

Sam Abuelsamid  33:01  
yeah. And and yeah, they all was they always remind us of that, you know, anytime anytime that we slip and say, you know, refer refer to you know the Optima and Sonata as being the same car or you know, the the the Elantra and the Forte you know, or you know,

Rebecca Lindland  33:22  
or the telluride and the Palisades. Yes But so, so I think, you know, they they have Genesis has had a very rough start, and they've had the core group that they've had that they had in place I should say, with AI. People like Manfred for astrology came over from Lamborghini, and he was he was the president for a number of years. He's out now. And then Luke, I was gonna say look, a dunk Not, not the not the basketball player. But you know, He's now retired or left the company for personal reasons. And it's really unfortunate because I think that there's some, you know, they, they had a really solid vision and and wanted to execute that vision. And I think we're starting to see that with some of the products coming out. But there definitely is, you know, it'll be interesting to see what Mark delarosa does at the top now with with his experience at the brand so see what happens.

Yeah, well, um, I drove a car that has a very strong brand and a very strong image and they sell the hell out of it. I have the the Jeep Wrangler I mean, Wrangler Jeep Gladiator, Mojave. So I was also in a 60,000 something dollar vehicle. And Sam, you had this not too long ago. I'm so ago. I'm really impressed with the Mojave. It's different than the river Konya. It's got the Fox shocks with the remote reservoir is in there. It's really they're really great at soaking up like small high frequency stuff. So it actually rides with a lot of discipline and it feels better the faster you go, which it's that's the point it's kind of

Sam Abuelsamid  35:16  
remarkable.

Rebecca Lindland  35:17  
Yeah, it's amazing. And it's a it's a good sort of compact pickup. It has a decent tow rating dressed up in the Mojave trim, it's nice inside this one have leather seats and have a charge of 500 bucks extra to put sound insulation on the to the top of the the top of the freedom top you know i mean you have a having a vehicle like this in the summer in late summer is just it really doesn't get much better than that. You know I'm not I'm not really a convertible guy but it's nice you know, you pop up the pop off the top sections and roll down the windows or if you really ambitious, you take off the doors and drive around on a warm evening is quite a lot of charm for that. And that's, I think What really stands out with the gladiator is the personality they've got in this this pickup, cuz it It starts off more expensive than every other midsize truck and it stays and more expensive by a pretty wide margin. Yeah. The Delta isn't that big to begin with. I think if you were to buy a ranger you can get into a four wheel drive sort of Crew Cab shortbed Ranger for about 3031 and that Gladiator I think the cheapest Gladiator is going to be about 35 and it's in the Colorado's like right in the middle. So the cheapest Colorado is going to be like 3332 something like that. So it it's not that far off. If you're leasing or borrowing it's you know, you're you'll get there you could probably swing it if you wanted to stretch a little bit but a nobody's buying the base model. And B like it is it's nicely equipped, you know has four wheel drive, it comes with the V six. It can tell if you get it configured correctly. We can tow seven d 650 pounds, which is the top of the class or they may GMA have fiddled with the Colorado to get it to 7700. So they can claim that has the best in class time now. So that's like, it's pretty good. It's functional. Until you could, like, use it. What do you mean? I, so we have the power went out the other day. And a couple weeks ago, you and I, we both lost power for a while. Yes. So I borrowed my brother in law's generator, and it's at 500 watt generator things heavy. And I just I wanted it back at his house so that it didn't become a target at mine. And I'm just like scratching my head trying to figure out how am I going to get this into the bed of the Jeep which is

Sam Abuelsamid  38:03  
a fairly tall lift over height yeah get anything into the bed of

Rebecca Lindland  38:07  
the one that I had a five foot bed.

Yeah, well the bed itself is a decent size of the ground Yeah, it's extra inch off the ground in the Mojave Ah, so I'm like looking around like what do I have I had actually tacked together a quick like set of yeah quick ramp out of like some some eight foot lumber I had kicking around like some four by fours and so just ridiculous. My my 12 year olds like dad You should really just call them to have them come help you know. We're gonna engineer This is gonna throw a come along over the tree branch. Yeah. So that's, that's problematic though. Like it's it's tall and he like even to get in you gotta like, you know, for those of us of

getting in with definitely exciting sometimes.

Yeah, you've got instead of like, pull yourself in. You could You know, good biceps sort of, you know, strength on that, that crap handle. But that's I think also that's that is part of the charm. Um, I really I did like it quite a bit. It's, it's one of those cars that if you if you want value no unless you're talking about resale and it's going to hold on to its resale value but I have a hard time buying a car to sell it. So that doesn't really factor in for me. Initially you, you are going to pay for the privilege of having the gladiator generates goodwill. So that's nice. You know, I heard more than once you know, somebody commented as we drove by like what Jeep truck, so that's cool. It's still new enough that it excites people. I don't want to pay for that every month though.

It was funny cuz I my brother flew in from California last week. And he he drove down and he said, Hey, can you meet me at this Other airport so we could drop off his rental car because he didn't need it. And it was a it was a Jeep Gladiator rental fleet.

Unknown Speaker  40:07  
Wow. But was

Rebecca Lindland  40:09  
sweet. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. But it was also kind of interesting is that he didn't really rave about it. He was like I was like, why don't you keep that thing I wanted to keep it for a week. And he was just like, Oh, it was it was fine. Like he would he didn't really go on about it, which was kind of interesting, because he's driven other products for me, you know, as if he's visiting or something and I always get clearance from the manufacturer, but it was just kind of interesting that he didn't really rave about it because I thought it was I think it's great fun.

Yeah, no, it is it's a fun car and and i think that it dressed up like the Mojave. It definitely has the goods too. You know, it's got Dana 44 axles, it's got the two speed transfer case and the locking rear axle and you can seriously you know, do a lot of offroad on this. If it's going to be used like a lot of jeeps are never taken off for It's kind of a shame and a waste, but I mean, you're free to buy whatever the hell you want. And it's it's a big personality vehicle just like a raptor.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:08  
I actually like it better than the Raptor. I do too. You know, it's something that's something to drive around because like you said, the suspension setup is so much better. It's so much better controlled than the Raptor the Raptor feels kind of soft and floppy.

Dan Roth  41:20  
Yeah. Yeah. And and the Raptors. I it's a Ford truck. I don't I don't

Rebecca Lindland  41:26  
I haven't heard the Raptor but I drove the Ranger.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:28  
I love Mr. Levine here. You say that.

Dan Roth  41:31  
They're good trucks. I just don't like them that much.

Rebecca Lindland  41:33  
I tried the Ranger at an input event and it was not okay.

Dan Roth  41:37  
Really, really? Didn't you like about the Ranger?

Rebecca Lindland  41:40  
It was really loud and very rough and, and other people agreed with me I was like it? No.

I think part of the problem with the Ranger is that it only has the 2.3 liter EcoBoost in it, which is powerful enough engine in it so it's actually more powerful than the The engine that's in the gladiator, I think. But it's,

Sam Abuelsamid  42:04  
it's still got more torque. I think it's scuttle in the truck. It's got a little less horsepower because I think it's like 275 or something.

Dan Roth  42:12  
Okay, I was gonna say that's got to be like a 300 horsepower engine, but that makes sense. They traded horses in the Mustang. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  42:18  
Not in the Ranger.

Rebecca Lindland  42:20  
You know, and I'm actually surprised how well the gladiator does with the V six because it's got 295 horsepower and 260 pound feet of torque is not a light vehicle in the first place. So to get to that towing number where the, the gladiator Mojave can only do about 6000 pounds. I say only that's pretty good.

Sam Abuelsamid  42:43  
I mean, that's sufficient for what most people need for telling me. Yeah, well, most people that that tell, you know, are telling, you know, maybe a boat, you know, that's typically about between four and 4500 pounds or He'll have a trailer with a couple of snowmobiles or jet skis or something yeah

Rebecca Lindland  43:04  
no there jetski trailer all day long yeah you know i think that the the torque system might help fill in the gaps you know, because the pentastar it you got to work a little bit here. So the truck might help the diesels coming. I don't think the diesel the rumors diesel is not going to tow anymore because they've just got to figure out how to package all the stuff in the front of it so it's gonna lose some cooling.

Sam Abuelsamid  43:31  
So that the heat is a problem with diesel when you when you love if you're not if you can't tell what the diesel then there's no point in getting the diesel at all. Yes, that's the point of getting a diesel right.

Rebecca Lindland  43:41  
Well, it'll tell more efficiently but I and David Tracy had an interesting write up about it. One of the problems with the gladiator getting over that 6000 pound tow rating to get to 7650 was that there's just not a whole lot of space on the front of it to package You know, a thicker radiator, a large radiator, more ducting something, you know, like there was they had a real challenge getting enough heat out of the, the cooling system, and they got there with the gas engine. But the diesel has to charge air cooler, and it's got to go somewhere. And so that takes up space.

Sam Abuelsamid  44:20  
And one of the things that they've talked about with the gladiator one of the differences between the gladiator and the Wrangler, if you look at the grill, it's actually the same grill except on the Wrangler. There's like a chrome trim bezel around the interior around the perimeter of each of those slots. Yep. And on the on the gladiator they actually removed that to make that those slots just slightly wider and taller. Get a little bit of extra airflow in there to get the cooling they needed for the gladiator. Yep. Which which they didn't need on the Wrangler.

Rebecca Lindland  44:53  
And part of it too is like it's gaming tests like fuel economy, you know, because they're doing the SAE towing test is it's a common Have cooling and gearing in which gear The engine is in. So which RPM it runs at, depending on how much heat it's going to generate. So it's all it's just it's fascinating, sort of deep, nerdy engineering. But yeah, I don't think the diesel is going to do any better. In sort of the sort of overall number, it's probably going to tell more confidently, it's going to feel better. And I think it's probably why you're not going to see a hammy in here either. It's just you can't, can't get the heat out of the Hemi either. In that engine bay. So kind of is what a shame because

Sam Abuelsamid  45:34  
that's the one thing it could use heavy in there.

Dan Roth  45:37  
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, there's, there's something to be said. For like the 1930s theme. The Gladiator pulls off, you know, feels feels cozy inside. You look out over that rounded hood with the flat fenders and stuff just makes you nostalgic.

Sam Abuelsamid  45:55  
Mm hmm. Which I like it a lot because totally

Dan Roth  45:57  
the point it drives really friendly. It drives way better than it really should for what it is given the permitted to do

Sam Abuelsamid  46:05  
something with two solid axles yeah

Rebecca Lindland  46:07  
and I say primitive engineering it's actually got a lot of very expensive fancy modern day engineering in it to make it behave so well you know but it's it's the worst I can say about it is that it's a serious financial commitment and so maybe if you can afford it

Sam Abuelsamid  46:23  
got cheap divorce it is.

Dan Roth  46:26  
But it's a it's a member into a club I guess it's a membership into the club to so you get to like practice your Wrangler waive My son has reminded me about that person just waiting to say, Gosh, I forgot

Sam Abuelsamid  46:42  
to since getting my Miata I've, you know, I've learned to, you know, hit the button on the console to pop up the headlights when I see another na coming.

Unknown Speaker  46:51  
Oh, nice. Nice. I like that.

Dan Roth  46:54  
I'm not friendly like that. I got to remind myself.

Rebecca Lindland  46:56  
You're a man of the people. How are you? Not friendly.

Dan Roth  47:00  
Yeah, I'm a I'm like a shop steward. I look out for my people, but I'm a grouch about it.

Unknown Speaker  47:11  
Get off my lawn. Exactly.

Rebecca Lindland  47:14  
Alright, so I, you know, I think that the gladiator is a great, great pickup. I'm glad we haven't you. It's gonna cost you. But it's I mean, nothing else really has that kind of charm. So go for it, if you can.

Sam Abuelsamid  47:30  
Rebecca, do you have anything else you wanted to add about the strategic vision or brand equity award?

Rebecca Lindland  47:37  
No, I think it's I know, I think I said my piece. You know, it's just that again, it's an interesting kind of just another marker that consumers can look at and address and say, you know, you can google if you're doing your research and say, What strategic visions owner brand equity award and then you get a good idea of the ownership experience for some of these people.

Sam Abuelsamid  48:00  
Okay, well there's another word that also came out the from JD Power, not so much an award, I guess, but they measured the technology experience index. And you know, they did send out surveys to, you know, customers have, you know, all in all the major brands and did scoring on categories including effectiveness, innovation and customer reception. And interestingly, the, you know, they had a total maximum score of 1000. Only one brand got over 600 and that was Volvo got 617 that everybody else wants down from them. And then second on the list was BMW

Rebecca Lindland  48:55  
another fascination

Sam Abuelsamid  48:58  
with the 583 Cadillac at 577, Mercedes Benz at 567 and Genesis at 559. And you know, one of the things in this article it's mentioned, Tesla isn't on the list. And for and it's for the same reason that Tesla is typically not on the quality surveys, the JD Power quality surveys, because what they, what they do, oh JD Power does they send out the surveys to people who have bought cars from these brands. And, you know, they have to get the customer data from the manufacturers, or in some states that they actually get the customer data, the registration data from the state dmvs. But in some states, they're required to get permission from the manufacturer to contact their customers. And Tesla does not allow in those states there's 15 states where that's required. Tesla has never allowed JD Power to actually contact its its customers. Were pretty Mission is required

Dan Roth  50:01  
to be fair testing is also not good at contacting its own customers.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:04  
Well, that is that is very true. So Tesla didn't get an official score. But in the 35 states where they were able to serve a Tesla customers, they got a 593 score, which would have put them in second place behind Volvo, which is interesting. Yeah, the thing the tech customers liked, didn't like, they were still uneasy about automated driving systems. And, you know, I guess in this case, it's still it's a das. And last week to automotive put on a virtual conference, you know, it's a comp, they did a combination of several of the conferences that they're responsible for, like the the annual to Detroit conference, that's usually in June, and their eight asked to autonomy conference, and I sat through a bunch of the sessions and discussions for that conference. And it's, it's interesting. You know, how Like Driver Assist features a lot of customers still don't like using those, you know, things like Lane Keeping Assist and blind spot monitoring which you know, I would have thought you know that that's the one that I think is often it's usually the best you know and combine especially combined with cross traffic alert they you know things like to surround you cameras they definitely like and what else here? Oh, the thing that customers universally disliked gesture.

Dan Roth  51:31  
I like I understand it but i i don't i don't know that i agree. I kind of like the gimmicky gesture controls. I like I hate the things that everybody knows.

Rebecca Lindland  51:46  
You I generally universally are very scathing about frivolous things and you like gesture control? Oh,

yes. Yeah. Definitely awesome. brand for me to just like completely dislike all the things that everybody else loves into like a one thing they hate. That totally makes sense. You know, I'm surprised that they don't I'm not surprised it's encouraging to see that they're uncertain about eight s and you know makes at least half of the people uneasy because I think that that's really a good slice of reality and that's what we have to everybody's going to have to either get comfortable with or we have to make the systems better so that they're actually you know, they're soothing on their own when you put them into sort of self driving mode and and we're not really there it's although the Tesla owners I think as a as a sort of group, really do love autopilot. No other but it works. Yeah, no other automaker sort of has that that quite kind of level of evangelism in its in its driver base. I think

that if You queried most of the vast majority of Tesla owners, they would describe themselves as innovators and early adopters, right? And so they're willing to very much to take that risk like the work I did in Saudi focused on on Tesla owners versus Nissan LEAF owners, and those Tesla owners by far and away were willing to take the risk of to use technology as new as autonomous and that was five years ago, you know, so I think that that's a given I mean, I have a Volvo XC 90 this week and yesterday, I, I almost had a heart attack because it's it thought that there was a car when there wasn't a car like it ran around a turn. So as I'm turning there's a car parked, and all of a sudden I get this loud brake brake brake brake brake was like I'm, you know, like an a cockpit, where it says pull up, pull up a lot more. Oh my gosh. I mean, scared the dickens Atomy Yeah, you know, I didn't happen again today.

Well, it is. So that's that's the other point that the study sort of covered though is like many customers are unsure of how to operate the systems or what they can do and what what they don't do, Sharon and I think that that's, that's true. It's funny. Back when we were commuting, I would, you know, my wife and I would call each other on our commutes. And, you know, she would often hear the system's beeping at me. Like, are you gonna hit somebody? I'm like, No, it's just it's calibrated in certain cars are calibrated. So they're very conservative and just like, totally fine. It's just, you know, making the system nervous. thinks you're gonna hit the car in front of me that I'm passing now.

Yeah, I mean, this. The Volvo definitely has an overabundance of systems and for the most part there, you know, they're quite good. There. Most of them are haptic, first of all, which I follow. prefer, and I understand like, if that braking system, it, it would be very good if say I'm drowsy, you know or I'm or it's dark out, but the false alarms are, you know, to your point and of making them better. The false alarms then just make people want to turn it off.

Sam Abuelsamid  55:21  
And especially with Lane Keeping Assist, you know, this is the thing I think that irritates people the most and, you know, it's off, you know, it's often what causes me to turn off Lane Keeping Assist systems when they are too sensitive, and they give you constant false alarms. And you know, that's an it's an audible alarm. Right. You know, the the car I'm driving this week is the Cadillac CT five. And, you know, I drove it across the state to Grand Rapids on Friday. And this, you know, it reminded me of, you know, one of the things that GM really does did right, was coming up with a haptic feedback system in the seat Yeah, it actually vibrates the seat. So when, you know, if you're drifting towards the lane on one side or the other, you know, it'll vibrate the seat on that side to give to give you a warrant gives you an alert. Or if you're backing out of a parking space in a parking lot, and somebody's walking down the aisle, you know, the text in pedestrian, it'll buzz the seat, you know, which I think is a great, it's a great way to provide feedback. And it's not overly sensitive, I think. I think they did a good job of balancing the sensitivity and, you know, providing you a good feedback mechanism.

Rebecca Lindland  56:36  
Yeah, I think the other really confusing thing is that we haven't, we haven't settled on a terminology for each of these things. And and we and even if we have like blind spot monitoring, people don't really know what that means. And I know you know, an example is my when my sister and her husband were going car shopping they wanted to buy a gently used like off lease. vehicle and they were two cars their two Jeep Grand Cherokees that were basically exactly the same. I think I've told this story before. And basically you know, one had blind spot monitoring one did not and I kept trying to push her to say look by the blind spot monitoring. By that by that they ended up not buying it because they went with the one that they had originally picked out. And the first time that my brother in law drove it, he said to my sister, hey, why didn't you tell me the car was there she goes, That's blind spot monitoring. The Rebecca has been trying to tell you about I

Sam Abuelsamid  57:34  
listen to your wife or your sister, sorry. I said I was listened to your wife.

Rebecca Lindland  57:40  
I get paid well, I don't get paid but

Sam Abuelsamid  57:41  
I get paid.

Rebecca Lindland  57:48  
You know, it just reminds it but it brings it back to that consumer level right of like, realizing that we are so in mesh in all of this stuff. That the general consumer may still need that translation of what blind spot monitoring actually is. Well, there's it Yeah,

there's a rush to brand, everything so that it all has your own name on it creates confusion. And then there's also just like back to that, that JD Power service study, like finding that people don't know what it does, they don't know how it works and and, you know, for some of the higher end cars, there's that that training session that the dealer should give you, a lot of them do. But you know, even that, it's you sit with the, you know, the person from the dealer for a half hour an hour while they go through the car, and then you're so overwhelmed because the feature set is so deep that you just forget or you've tuned out halfway through because it's just it's a lot, you know, yeah. And, and so I don't, I don't know how we make that better. And the you know, the Volvo experience that you're explaining is like, well, that's how they've Sort of decided to handle it is they're going to make the system conservative. And it's it's going to be really pre emptive. And probably, you know, that's good in a way, but also it can annoy the crap out of you.

Well, yeah, so first thing somebody's gonna say if they crash is waiting this system notify me.

Right? Exactly. Part of it. Yeah, part of it is like, well, if it's going off of time, at least you're seeing the thing you've bought, you know, right. In our Lane Keeping systems I think most people generally don't like because they fight with you. And, and a lot of them just they can't follow the lines. The lines on our highways aren't that great in at least in this region. Confused, some of them are real good. Others, they sort of wobble around, you know, from right to left as they try to stay centered. But, you know, we're going to, I think they're going to figure out what people want, what people don't want and some of this stuff is going to go away or just get get better so it gets out of the way. I think

Sam Abuelsamid  59:59  
it's more It's going to get better. I don't think most of these features are going to go away. I think one thing that will definitely get better is the branding. You know, as you said, you know, manufacturers have used their own branding, you know, like adaptive cruise control, you know,

Dan Roth  1:00:15  
supercruise Auto Toyota

Sam Abuelsamid  1:00:16  
calls it, you know, radar cruise control. Hyundai calls it smart cruise control. Nissan calls it intelligent cruise control. I mean, everybody's got their own brand. Yeah, as a set for the same, the same thing. So, you know, one of the things that's good is Consumer Reports has really been making a push to standardize the naming of these features. And, you know, there's also I think we've mentioned it before as well. The National Safety Council has a program called My Car Does What Yes, and there's a website, my car does what.org where you can go and you can see all the different features and you know, there's explainers on what they do. And, you know, they they partner when they launched this a couple of years ago. They, they actually produce a whole bunch of materials, you know, pamphlets and stuff, and posters that they distribute to DMV offices around the country, you know, to help drivers understand what all these features are, what they do what it means. So, you know, there's this push now to get that standardization of the naming, so that everybody's using consistent naming, for these features, and I think that'll help, you know, and then combine that with education. Hopefully, we can get to a point where people are less confused by that I don't think we'll ever get, you know, completely not confused. But certainly if we can get them less confused, so they understand better, what the capabilities and the and more importantly, what the limitations are, that I think that it'll make a difference. Let's jump into some listener questions. So let's start with a question that came in from snap at Le AJ. Maybe I'm not sure how you would pronounce that. But you Who? Are they a question about production of the 2021 Ford F 150. Has it started yet? And when can we expect those on dealer lots? And no, not started yet. They're doing a shutdown. There's two plants that build the F 150. in Dearborn, Michigan and Kansas City, Missouri. The Dearborn plants going down for two weeks, middle of September, and then we'll start production the last week of September. And then right after Dearborn is done with its changeover, they'll change over Kansas City. And they'll start production I think about the second or third week of October. So you should start seeing f 150s. Hitting dealer lots new f150 sitting dealer lots by the end of October.

Rebecca Lindland  1:02:46  
All right. So get ready. All right. It's not there's not as well as Yeah, the 2021 is probably worth waiting for. If you really must have it. There's not a huge gulf between between 2020 and 20 ones in a lot of ways. They're both really good trucks if you need to truck to get one, you'll be

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:06  
up. I think, I think the big, big difference. There's actually several big differences. One, the interior on the new f150 should be much better. You saw it last week. Didn't you repeat it?

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:18  
Yeah, this is one of the products that they had with the bronco.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:21  
So was the interior better than the current f150? No,

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:24  
I unfortunately, because there's really not Ford's in our press fleet. I rarely get the opportunity to drive them. But I will say that this one had a beautiful interior. And they also had a lot of nice, small, the emotional solutions, and I call them just finer details of, of, you know, being able to make it they really thought about making it a work truck along with making it a beautiful vehicle inside and out. So I think, you know, from a cost standpoint, if you're budget conscious, I agree with Dan. I don't think there's a tremendous amount of differences. By over time, those kinds of small things like having a platform for computer to be able to work, I being able to, you know, the ingress and egress was was really easy, both from the cabin standpoint as well as from the truck bed standpoint, and they've just done a lot of really nice thoughtful features to it to the 2021.

Dan Roth  1:04:24  
Yeah, I think it's a great update. I mean, Ford knows how to make a truck and make it work.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:30  
And so, and add, you know, you have the hybrid that's also coming out, as well. That's true should be interesting. That's true.

Dan Roth  1:04:37  
If there's one segment that needs hybrids, it's definitely

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:40  
Yeah. All right. Next one from Harvey Simon. Question for, for me and Dan, Do you consider yourself part of the auto industry and the question is prompted by Rebecca's description of herself in the last two shows as part of the auto industry. Quote, we have not done a good job as an industry and The previous episode for wording was similar we in the auto industry, I thought that folks who review cars to do so objectively could not be part part of the industry they write about and therefore we consider themselves journalists. So why don't you go first and, and then I'll respond.

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:16  
Um, I don't consider myself to be directly part of the automotive industry per se. I would, I would feel more more as part of industry if I were working for automaker PR, which I you know, I could make myself available. Yeah, exactly. But, uh, you know, to be honest, we're a tertiary industry, though. And so, there is that understanding of we cover the product and the industry, and we have a close relationship. And you do have to be aware of that so that you don't, you don't sort of get too far removed. from being a journalist, you know, and I know that I, it's hard for me to say I'm a full time journalist too, because I'm, I'm stuck out here in Massachusetts, I'm stubborn, I won't, I won't go to New York, I won't go to LA I won't go to Detroit. So that the limits my options, I can freelance, I can sort of habit as a side hustle. And I try not to take up too much space for the people who are doing it full time. Because those are the folks who really they are a lot more they're hardcore journalists, and they should really, and you see it happen. They they cover the industry with the same zeal that a political reporter reporter does and should cover politics and and you know, it's their beat. So, I guess, yes, I consider myself part of the automotive journalism industry, but not the automotive industry per se.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:01  
Rebecca, do you want to add anything to it before I respond? No,

Rebecca Lindland  1:07:03  
I'd like to hear your response as well.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:05  
Okay, so I do consider myself part of the industry. You know, I don't work for an automaker or supplier anymore. I used to mean that's where I started my career working for suppliers as an engineer, and, you know, I've always considered myself part of the industry even, you know, when I worked as a full time journalist, which I don't know, you know, part time journalist and my full time job, my 40 hour week job is as an industry analyst, where, you know, I study the technologies and do market research, and the work that I do the work product that I do, you know, I don't work for automakers or suppliers or anybody else, you know, that would be the sounds like that you would consider part of the industry, but they, they purchase the product that we produce the research reports that we produce You know, they, you know, just as they also subscribe to car magazines and automotive news, you know, and other publications, you know, to get an understanding of what's going on out in the industry. But even as a journalist, you know, especially, you know, covering a lot of the technology stuff. I, I do still consider myself part of the industry, to the degree that, especially the kinds of things we're talking about, you know, it's, it's part two, it's part of our responsibility to educate our readers, our listeners, our viewers, on what these products are, how they work, why they work the way they do. And, you know, we are not salespeople or marketing people or PR people, for the automakers. But we you know, it's our job to educate you about you know, what are you what are these products why Do they work as they do? And what should you know about them? And, you know, to the, to the quotes, you know about Rebecca, you know what she said about, you know, we've not done a good job as an industry. You know, I think that was probably in our discussion of EBS. Or I know, I know, you've certainly use that, that wording in the context of ATVs and some of the other things we've talked about on the show. You know, it's, it's all of our responsibility even when we're not working as a for automakers to help people understand what what can an Eevee do or what can an ADA system do for you? You know, that's, that's what we do as communicators, you know, as media communicators is helping people to understand. And, you know, while you know, and we and we tried to do that, you know, while not necessarily being sales people not promoting, you know, any particular product But helping them understand what it is about a product that they might be interested in.

Rebecca Lindland  1:10:04  
Right? I mean, I feel like we're scouts. You know, it's if you think about scouts, whether it's baseball or basketball or football, they evaluate players, right. And they're part of the industry and some scouts are independent. Some scouts will work for a specific team, but it's, we're providing, I think, we're providing a service, but we try, I think, as much as possible to remain objective, which is why we often have a pro and con like I always try and bring up something that I didn't really like about a product, there's rarely something that's completely fawning. You know, a funding review isn't going to help anybody. And so I think that's one of the things that we try and do is, as you say, Sam, provide that perspective and provide that our This is our experience with that vehicle. While we're I mean, I do feel like I'm part of the industry also, you know, we're, we're in meshed in it, this is what we've been doing for over 20 years.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:09  
Yeah. And, you know, you can, you can be objective, you know, having an opinion is not mutually exclusive with being objective. You know, in fact, I think I think it's necessary to be objective to have a valid opinion to have a responsible opinion, I wouldn't say necessarily valid, but but, you know, a responsible opinion, you know, to, to have, you know, to, for us to do our jobs, you know, we have to give you our opinions, and we have to come at it from, you know, from a position of trying to be objective about it, so that it's honest, you know, both, you know, but how we feel about it, and, as you can see, sometimes we disagree on stuff, you know, and and that's good, because, you know, we're, we're all three of us are coming at it from very different perspectives. You know, we we have very different backgrounds, very different needs, and wants in a vehicle. And, you know, there's a lot of things we agree on a lot of things we disagree on, you know, and those are all perfectly legitimate, I think,

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:08  
well, I would like to throw it back out to the listeners and sort of, you know, take their temperature like why do you? Why do you listen what keeps you coming back? I know part of it is people have learned our personalities and those those likes and dislikes and wants and needs in vehicles. And any part of that is you. you align yourself to a degree with the opinions that you share, right? Like you, you know, okay, this music reviewer always craps on this particular man that I like.

You know, I've always said you know, a movie critic, you should follow the critic whose movies you agree whose critics you agree with, like, if somebody suggests a movie, and you go and see it, you actually like it. Follow that critic. Because everyone has a different, you know, different like and dislike, there's some movies that I really like. And there's some movies that I don't like. And so anyone who

Sam Abuelsamid  1:13:08  
should also follow critics you disagree?

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:10  
Absolutely. But But you know, we do we each I agree, like I would be I would love to hear more about how our listeners perceive us and what they think about it, but you know, it to me, it's just like, if you want to go see a movie, go back to the critic whose movies you actually liked their recommendations. Or, uh, you know, I'd love to, you know, the journalist thing is just to be like a small child, right? Just keep asking why, why, why, why, and throwing it back. So

if there's an opinion, or, you know, some rant that one of us goes, and and you want to know more about it, like, you know, I'm very open to that. And I think that's something that is really healthy is to be challenged on that. And I think we do it amongst ourselves too, is just to make sure that we're We're asking each other Okay, why do you feel that way? What is your reason for liking or disliking? I think it's pretty clear why I don't like you know, and I think it's also clear why some people do like them. To me, even though I dislike them, you know. So that's, I think that's where you get this

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:17  
is an area where Dan and I wholeheartedly agree.

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:21  
But I know like, like, you know, even just putting climate control in auto or using the voice command. I know Rebecca, you like Force Command. I know. Yeah. And it's it's fun when it works. But you know, like, to me it feels tedious to use, but it's, it's that, you know, there's enough depth to this that I think that's what keeps it keeps it interesting. So yeah, I don't necessarily myself feel like I'm part of the automotive industry, but somebody wants to change. Let's talk. I'm glad that you guys feel like you're part of the industry. It's good

that Harvey Thank you for the question though. That was from Harvey Simon.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:01  
All right, next up from Adam. Jakob winco. Something Rebecca said on our most recent

Rebecca Lindland  1:15:08  
messenger. I know right?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:11  
you're mentioning the value of your cross traffic alert. We're an Eevee family and shop Tesla's briefly but we're extremely disappointed to find that such a high tech car does not offer this amazing or no idea didn't offer it. Because we find it so valuable. There's so many times that where our Chevy Bolt, which is what we end up buying, buying alerted us to things we could not see. I still can't believe that Tesla doesn't offer this feature. And I just don't understand why I saw someone as recently as a couple of months ago, tweeted Ilan, begging for this feature, and he said he would consider it. It's just crazy to me that it's on almost every car in this price range. And I know it's a bit of a hard stance to take especially for Tesla fans out there who will and have said to me Just use your camera. But if they never implement this feature, I will never buy one.

Rebecca Lindland  1:15:51  
Yeah, but the camera sensors can see for them the camera like that's the thing that like I have a shrub at the end of my driveway and rear cross traffic alert. can often see a car coming that I can't see because there's a shrub blocking both the camera and my view off the back of the car. So when when it goes off, I stopped and then I see the car go by.

Yeah, the camera is not sufficient. It's not the same thing.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:15  
Right and and the cameras are also not on Tesla's are not positioned where they could be utilized for cross traffic alert. Yeah, so the the way cross traffic alert works, it actually is. It's using the same hardware that's available for your blind spot monitoring. So there's two short range radar sensors in the rear corners and the rear bumper on either side that they're mounted behind the plastic covering on your bumper, and are typically there anyway, sometimes they're actually integrated into the taillight assembly, but that's another story. And, you know, so when you're backing up, you know, these can actually look out sideways from the rear corners of your car and look down if you're in a parking lot or driveway and look sideways. You know, to see if there's any, you know, to detect if there's anyone, whether it's a pedestrian or a vehicle or a cyclist coming, you know, towards your path. And the advantage that radar has over cameras gives, it's much more accurate at detecting speed and direction than cameras are. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, Tesla made the choice that they were going to use just the single radar sensor on the front for that they have for adaptive cruise control. And leave it at that and everything else is done with the cameras and with ultrasonic sensors, which have a much shorter range, and they're not as good at detecting where the object is, whereas radar is very good at that. So it's, it's, it's an unfortunate choice that Tesla made, but almost, this is, this is a technology that's rapidly becoming mainstream standard equipment in mainstream cars, you know, all the way you know, from base models, you know, for $20,000, you know, all the way up to much more expensive cars you know, almost all Honda's Toyota's Nissan's Ford's have it as standard equipment. Now, GM still, unfortunately makes it an option on most of their cars. But I think they're probably going to end up moving towards making it standard in the next few years. I hope so.

Rebecca Lindland  1:18:19  
Maybe if elans kid, once he starts to walk, whatever his name is, you know, as he toggles around, whatever mansion they're in, maybe something will happen to him and he'll see the value of it.

Dan Roth  1:18:33  
I hope it doesn't take that.

Rebecca Lindland  1:18:34  
Well, I'm not that he's going to hit the kid. But you know, like, all of a sudden you realize like, if something happens to you, in your personal life, sometimes then you'll they'll, they'll be happy to implement it and all of a sudden they'll see the value of it. Obviously, I don't want any harm to come to the child.

Dan Roth  1:18:52  
It's a nice kid.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:57  
He says, I also really love satellite radio particular Talk stations and the fact that he can't get this easily or implemented well on a Tesla is also a deal breaker number two, I just don't understand why they don't implement the simplest forms. simplest of common features like these walls Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. while they're at it,

Dan Roth  1:19:14  
yeah, so Sirius Sirius Satellite Radio is like you have to make the deal with Sirius XM, right? Yep. And it cost you money.

Rebecca Lindland  1:19:21  
Well, and I was talking to Jeff Gilbert on WWE Jay today and of course, there's no am sattel am radio either in Volvo's or BMWs or and presumably Tesla.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:34  
Tesla Yeah, Tesla has never had a video.

Dan Roth  1:19:38  
You do it night. That's the drive at night a long long highway drive at night you want to pick up the stations that are like thousands of miles away but I would do that I'd drive from from from

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:49  
home. Apparently, Tesla's had issues with interference with their drive train and and I think some other OEMs have had similar issues with with electric vehicles, and am radios That's true. I will say like I have not had nothing to solve.

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:06  
I read plot for a horror film,

Dan Roth  1:20:09  
but I've not had good am reception in a car in the last 15 years. That's there's just too much. The car itself is just kicking off too much electromagnetic radiation. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:20:20  
Yeah. All right. Two more quick ones here. From groov due to the looming shortage of commas, what are your opinions on Oxford commas again, feel free to needlessly get personal on your opinions.

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:35  
I'd love this. People need to start following us on Twitter because these kinds of conversations show up on Twitter and they're pretty hilarious.

Dan Roth  1:20:42  
Oh, God, I mean, what's your what's your comment?

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:44  
Well, so my common opinion is that they, they I started to say this on Twitter and then it didn't really come out right. But it's like it's like nudity in movies is sometimes it judiciously moves the plot along and clarify something but and other times It's just gratuitous, and I like a well placed comma.

If it clarifies and moves the plot along and as I said on Twitter, it's the whole idea of I like eating my family and my pets. Or I like eating comma, my family, comma, and my pets

Dan Roth  1:21:26  
don't use commas. What was that book like? eats shoots and leaves. Um,

Rebecca Lindland  1:21:31  
yeah, exactly.

Um, so I'm not your metaphor. I'm still stuck in the metaphor. I guess there's a point where the comma becomes a hyphen. gets really heated. Nevermind. Oh. But the i like i like the Oxford comma. I generally like it's a I went to I went to Catholic elementary school. And Sister Mary elephant, like we had rules. I mean, it's Roman Catholic elementary school is all about rules. And you always, always, always use a comma, like you have the Oxford comma. And so in my

comma is fairlifts.

Oxford comma is sort of like the, it's a serial comma. So when you have a group of three or more, a lot of times what their modern style allows is you drop that last one, and you just use and in between. So it's like, you know, I had wheat bread, peanut butter and jelly. I don't know if that's a great,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:40  
no, that's a good example. And then the Oxford with when you use the Oxford comma before the end, like you had wheat bread, peanut butter, comma, and jelly. But the AP Style Guide, which a lot of publications use, explicitly says it did until recently. I think they've actually changed it. Yes. Not to put that last comma before the end

Rebecca Lindland  1:23:03  
so that drove me bonkers as sort of the the copywriting side of my career because I would run across these like you know paragraphs and paragraphs of website copy or like advertising copy or something and it would just be rife with that last cop comma missing it What is the matter with you? Right like no and I would spend time going back in and like adding them back in and then I hand it off and you know the guy handed it off to be like what is the matter with you? Right you take them all out and be like no, like it's not clear and and I think that's a it's a precision thing to me like you. You need to break them up. Maybe people just don't like the look of it or whatever. I don't know. I just a lot of stuff I don't like about AP style. That's it. Yeah, I hate the passive voice but partly because I'm an advertising copywriter. And so we want action, but also just like as a as a As a journalist, or you know, somebody who's writing about, you know, the enthusiast press more so than journalists, like, we want action in our stories and and really, it's not not like that sort of classic bell curve to the story, I tend to start off with the fickian curve, which is like you start on action and it looks more like a sawtooth. So like the science of how you're structuring the story, goes together with the style, and I just, I don't know, like, I like the precision of the Oxford comma makes my intent very clear. And I don't like the APA style guide so much. I don't like Chicago. My favorite style guide ever has been Elements of Style. Not partially because it's flexible. A lot of it's like Eb white and and William Strunk going yeah, generally do this, but you know, do what you feel. It's very bohemian. guy. Yeah. But also, it's just like it's got a lot of good, just common sense and sort of writing for readability, which is generally where I go You know, I write for stuff that like is going to be enjoyable to read. I want it to be readable, not not tedious. Or if I'm writing, you know, you want to talk about where the writing rules go out the window. It's writing for, for voice if you're writing a script to be read, or you know, dialogue to be delivered. Oh my God, is the grammar wrong and I can't tell you how many times I've like handed off a script or something and had it come back with it, like the grammar all fixed up, but no, like, you're not going to like it when I pay the actors to deliver those lines for you. Please trust me. So yeah, I don't know. I i don't know i i like the serial comma. I like the actual.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:41  
I agree. You know, I think there are times when it is redundant, and it doesn't add any precision, but it doesn't hurt. There's no it doesn't cause any damage by adding adding that extra comma there. And there are a lot of times when it definitely helps eliminate ambiguity. about what the meaning is.

Dan Roth  1:26:02  
I mean, it's the same question. Right? And so in my house, we have the the friction between 12 hour time and 24 hour time.

Rebecca Lindland  1:26:11  
Really? You live with Europeans?

No. But I love 24 hour time, because you're the weird one. Okay, I am the weird one. And it's just like, you know, I get a lot of shots and it's like, but it's a it's precise. Be it's efficient because you never have to say 3am or 3pm. You know, that three is 3am and 15 is three, you know, three in the afternoon, like, I guess you have to do a little bit of like mental translation, but it just again, it's it's precise and efficient.

That's you that is you in a nutshell.

Dan Roth  1:26:50  
Efficient, I I enjoy precision and efficiency. I do not necessarily exude it.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:26:57  
Alright, one that one last one before. Before we wind up for tonight continuing the pizza theme from last week. Oh boy, what would be your perfect food delivery vehicle?

Dan Roth  1:27:09  
for pizza for any food

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:11  
the question says perfect food delivery vehicle

Rebecca Lindland  1:27:14  
How about receiving vehicle that's what I like instead.

Dan Roth  1:27:20  
Jimmy like you like to get the pizza and and drive around and eat it can be a challenge if it's fresh.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:27  
Yeah, yeah if it's too hot no

Dan Roth  1:27:30  
burn the roof of your mouth.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:33  
That's that's never fun. I I don't know, food.

Dan Roth  1:27:40  
I think tractor trailer

Rebecca Lindland  1:27:42  
is one of those little Ford Transit Connect little vehicles.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:47  
Yeah. Daily Transit Connect to the Transit Connect is a good you know, flexible you know, adaptable vehicle, you know, to deliver a single pizza or to you know, cater a whole whole party. You know, it's it's, it's great. What's your capability?

Dan Roth  1:28:03  
What was the Domino's card? Wasn't the DSP?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:06  
Yeah, it was. It was a modified Chevy Sonic Yeah. And they replaced the passenger side rear door. Like in the window, they took out the window, and basically put in a little insulated compartment and a special door on there so that the delivery drivers could open that up, stick the pizza in there, it would stay nice and warm. And you know, till they got to the delivery and then drop it off. And they they still have those around, you know, here in Ann Arbor, and Ypsilanti. The Domino's stores still have

Rebecca Lindland  1:28:41  
the well I so following on this theme that Darrell are at D King Cole sent in. I would be curious what everyone's pizza delivery cars are today like so when the guy pulls up from my place. It's a little key assault, all decorated out all wrapped up in Pizza theme from our curries pizza in Cos Cob Connecticut. Some of the best pizza I've ever had in my life. But yes, they have low key souls that run around town.

Dan Roth  1:29:09  
Oh, our I think the last time I had it delivered it was a I want to say it was like a GMT 355 Trailblazer or something. Oh, I felt kind of bad for the guy. A lot. I give him a big tip.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:28  
Yeah, I usually don't get delivery food. I usually go pick it up. So

Rebecca Lindland  1:29:32  
yeah, I do. It's just everyone gets it from that from our curries around here. So I see them buzzing all over the place.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:37  
Yeah, yeah. They once deliver. It's usually something old and decrepit. Whatever it is.

Rebecca Lindland  1:29:44  
So I just quickly our curries once delivered pizza and a bottle of wine to a campfire at my neighbor's for us. That's awesome. That amazing. Like That was pretty fabulous.

Dan Roth  1:30:01  
That's great.

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:03  
That service

Dan Roth  1:30:06  
almost enough to get me to consider moving back to kinetic,

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:09  
although we will welcome you and grant and she'll fit right in.

Dan Roth  1:30:15  
Yeah, it's about as affordable as Newton.

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:18  
Pay. The taxes are good.

Dan Roth  1:30:23  
All right. Well, we I think we have done a delightful podcast with with pizza in another pizza ending. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:31  
keep the question coming, though, guys, please. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, we love We love it.

Dan Roth  1:30:36  
Yeah, for sure. Um, and so until next time, you know where to find us. And in the meantime, we'll keep the shows coming. So yeah, reach out. Let us know if there's any food related stuff that we can help you out.

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:49  
And don't forget to rate us on wherever you find us. Please.

Unknown Speaker  1:30:53  
That will help as well.

Dan Roth  1:30:56  
All right. So until next time,

Unknown Speaker  1:30:57  
thanks, everyone.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai