Dan Roth  0:03  
this is wheel bearings. I'm Dan Roth from Forbes.

Rebecca Lindland  0:10  
I'm Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. I keep forgetting I'm second.

Sam Abuelsamid  0:14  
And I'm Sam Abuelsamid. From guidehouse insights.

Dan Roth  0:17  
All right, well, welcome to Episode 159. We're gonna keep it tight. I promise. I promise. So let's talk about what we're driving. Sam we promise

Sam Abuelsamid  0:25  
that every episode in the last hundred and 58 listen is 11:45am on Tuesday morning, right now we're gonna we're gonna get this done. Alright, so Sam, since you're giving me crap, what are you what are you driving? What are you been trying to sell? I had the BMW 228 I xDrive Gran Coupe. Yet another NVMe fancy I have of of overly complex names, but was it currently in the BMW lineup in the in the two series lineup, there are two very distinctly different vehicles and and when I say different I mean like they are completely different. There is, you know, there's the two series, coupe and convertible, which is built on a rear drive platform, which I think is shared largely with three series. And then there's the two series Gran Coupe. And also in Europe, there are other variants as well, which are actually built on a transverse engine front wheel drive platform that is shared with many it's the same platform used for the MINI Countryman and so it's also used for the x one and the x two, and a few other things that we don't get here. So, the grand coupe is on this transverse engine front drive platform. Nice, you know, four door you know, fastback sedan, you know, decent decent styling, yeah, not nothing too exciting, doesn't have an excessively large grill and, you know, It looks fine interiors nice enough typical, you know, modern BMW and the engine, you know, the powertrain is the two liter turbo, four cylinder 228 horsepower, and all wheel drive. So for the US market, it's only available with all wheel drive, there's no front wheel drive version offered here of the two series Gran Coupe. You can also get it as a as a 235 which has 300 horsepower. But the you know, the base version, you know, is adequate, you know, that performance wasn't really a problem with this. I had no complaints about the least acceleration performance and braking, steering, kind of numb and non existent. You know, nothing, nothing much there. You know, didn't really have any opportunity to evaluate the, you know, the extra traction capabilities of the all wheel drive. My big complaint about this thing is, you know, like so many modern BMT We use is really expensive for what you're getting, you know, base price on the 228 starts at 37 five, and the one I had was about $49,000 and it's a lot of

Dan Roth  3:14  
money for a Dodge Dart.

Sam Abuelsamid  3:16  
Yeah, it is you know and you know when you when you look at the specs, you know, this car is almost exactly the same size, you know, similar wheelbase and so on two cars like the Honda Civic and the Mazda three sedan In fact, the Mazda three is actually got slightly more room inside and actually a notably bigger trunk and currently, you know, the the Mazda three sedan, the top end version of that is the the premium, which with all wheel drive, and currently there's only one engine in there that's that's the 2.5 liter naturally aspirated four cylinder 180. horsepower. That one with all wheel drive is $29,000. And that's loaded and it's got everything in it. That Yeah, but

Rebecca Lindland  4:08  
you're driving a monster as opposed to a BMW. So when you go into the bar to impress the chicks, it's not gonna happen.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:18  
But I don't go into the car. I actually enjoy driving. And, and, and, you know, Marsha, this fall we'll have a 2.5 liter turbo that's in the CX nine and the CX five, and also in the Mazda six coming to the Mazda three. So you'll have a 250 horsepower, all wheel drive Mazda three that I think arguably has an actually nicer interior. I think that the design has probably more character than the 228 and you know, it's probably going to cost a buck 30 to $33,000 because the boss to six turbos 35 so it's probably gonna Be in that price range. So five grand less than the base price of the 228.

Rebecca Lindland  5:06  
I agree with you the pricing. It's funny that you mentioned pricing because I was just putting up my review of the Cadillac x t six and Nicole wakeland had driven the X the BMW X seven and her and she put her review up on my site. And it was like 100 and something thousand dollars. And the Cadillac was like my my test version topped out at 63,000 and the Z six tops out at about 72 ish. And while the x seven is bigger, it's still really struck me that that's a any norm. That's another half a car difference is $30,000 difference. And I don't know that you're getting $30,000 worth of value. Especially

Sam Abuelsamid  5:54  
Yeah, I haven't driven the x seven yet. But you know certainly with the 228 I Don't see that you're actually getting you know even five or $10,000 worth of of extra value. You know aside from you know the cachet of it having that that BMW badge on it you know that twin kidney grille

Rebecca Lindland  6:13  
you should feel that though like you should feel that you are in this a BMW you should feel that you should have that experience when you're driving a BMW that should be something that comes through every time in my mind

Sam Abuelsamid  6:29  
and and then the two the 228 you know more so, you know in the two series coupe you know, that is that is definitely more the case you know, it feels more lively you know it of all current BMWs you know, that I've driven the two series coupe is actually probably my favorite it's the most funny got that that classic BMW feel to it, you know, lighter nimbler, you know, the the grand coupe, it's just doesn't have that feel to it. So,

Dan Roth  6:57  
is this almost like a stepping stone car like if If I sort of squint at this, you can see that BMW is working a bit to evolve their design language, because it's different proportions as this front wheel drive. And they still they're trying to find where that, that lower sort of rung of their cars are that that entry level, this would be the three series which has sort of grown and gotten more expensive, it's still an icon but they need something to fill in that that slot 30 series filled for so long and so I'm wondering if that's what what this cars sort of meant to do as they're working to establish that the two series sort of sedan grand cafe or whatever else they want to however else they want to make it but you know, you can you can see that they're, they're working some things out and on the on the website, you know, they show the premium models, which I think they look pretty good. They probably also cost like sad Look,

Sam Abuelsamid  7:59  
it looks It looks fine. You know, I? Yeah, it's Yeah. I think it's a little more plain. Yeah, then, you know, three series or five series, but I don't have any real complaints about the design. It's just, you know, the driving experience in it doesn't really excitement. Yeah.

Dan Roth  8:19  
Well, I think that's sort of that's where it needs to not fall down, right. It can't it can't drive like an economy car. It's got to be the ultimate driving machine.

Rebecca Lindland  8:29  
regardless of the size of these vehicles, it has to live up to that taglines got

Dan Roth  8:34  
to remind me to

Sam Abuelsamid  8:37  
fail. I have failed to do that over the past decade.

Dan Roth  8:39  
Yeah, well, that's not what they're about anymore. And if you want that, that's monster ma if you want a 2000 to go by a monster three, like you were saying, or the Mazda six, like that's gonna give you that. That feeling not so much the, the, you know, the two are the three C's the three series will give you a little bit of that, but

Sam Abuelsamid  8:58  
I got three series is done. Definitely a step a step up. Yeah, compared to the previous generation,

Rebecca Lindland  9:03  
I think we also have to make the note that most BMWs are leased. You know, so that's a different price point than I mean, I realize the MSRP still comes into play. But you know, that is something to think about, too, that most of these vehicles are leased. And I would think that you can probably get a you know, a gently used one for a pretty good price.

Dan Roth  9:28  
Yeah, well, yeah, you could probably lease us to run for at least brevik. That guy at the bar who wants to impress the chicks is like, some of this end of the market is going to be people looking for a performance bargain and they're gonna buy the Hot Rod version. And I don't I don't necessarily mean performance bargain because it's still gonna be expensive, but they're, they're looking for that but the other buyer is the one who just buys it because of the brand. And because they like The tech bits in it or something, you know, how is the tech by the way? How is AI driving all that stuff? And it has light up trim that doesn't have to write a trim?

Sam Abuelsamid  10:08  
No, this one did not. But the you know, the the x i drive, you know, was basically the same in this as what you'd find in pretty much any other modern BMW, which is good. I mean, it's a good system. You know, it has, this one has the, my BMW assistant in there. So, you know, you can, as you're driving along, you don't have to find the voice button on the steering wheel, you know, just say, my, hey, hey, BMW, you know, turn up the volume turn, you know, I'm cold turned down the temperature, things like that. So it's actually a pretty good system, you know, it does, you know, various controls. So you don't even have to mess with the, with the control knob. So that that system actually works really well. And you know, if you're looking if you're doing navigation We'll, you know, it's got, I wouldn't say it's not true natural language, but it's a lot closer to natural language processing. So you don't have to go through a whole bunch of steps to enter a navigation command, you know, just say, you know, you know, navigate home, you know, or navigate to Whole Foods. And then and if there's multiple choices, it'll show, you know, show the list on the screen, say pick one. But, you know, if there's, if you give it a specific address, you know, it will do that in in one in one sequence. You don't have to go through multiple steps to do it, which has long been the complaint with voice control systems and cars is, you know, having to remember the exact syntax and going through multiple steps of, you know, what's the house number, what's the street number what's what's city country? Yeah. So you know, modern vehicles, you know, have the ability to do much closer to natural language voice processing, and makes them a A lot more useful and a lot more effective.

Dan Roth  12:03  
Okay, so the final verdict, though sounds like just find the Mazda three with the turbo when it comes here and don't don't spend your

Sam Abuelsamid  12:11  
Yeah, I mean, you know, if you if what you want is a BMW badge, fine, you know go for but if you actually want what a BMW used to represent in terms of driving capabilities, then you know, maybe wait for the Mazda.

Dan Roth  12:26  
Okay. All right let's let's jump on let's move on um Rebecca Your turn you were driving the x86 you mentioned it I actually had an x86 back in the before times. We took it to Manhattan actually last summer and it's a little big for that but it's it's narrow ish. It's not like driving a suburban or a taco in town. So I actually thought it was great for that was great on the highway. I hit the Platinum service a little it was more than the one year you've got and kind of struggled with the value a little bit just like we are with the BMW but I want, I want your take on it. And we there's a link we'll put in the show as well to Rebecca drives for the x86 Premium review.

Rebecca Lindland  13:13  
Thank you. Yes. So I was actually in a unique position, hopefully a unique position of actually really needing this car because I didn't have power and I didn't have internet after Tropical Storm I say sir zisa or whomever him and so I was delighted when this vehicle showed up the day after the storm because I know it has a Wi Fi hotspot. So I didn't actually track my fuel economy on this one, because I spent so much time idling. Yeah, in the car.

Dan Roth  13:50  
I will say it's fuel economy is about what you can expect from something that size it's gonna be in the 20s.

Rebecca Lindland  13:55  
Yeah, it's rated for 17 high as 17 City. For highway 20 combined, which I would say, I actually got pretty close to that, which is impressive considering how much that's what I should have said is impressive considering how much I had an idling while I checked email and, you know, just getting online and everything. So, you know, this is one of those things where this is a product where I feel like it did a lot of things really, really well and with minimal drama, and I appreciated that given especially given the circumstances that I was in, where my mom didn't have power, my mom and my sister, they lived together, her house didn't have power. My brother didn't have power, I didn't have power and this went on for days and days and days. And so, you know, being able to charge my phone being able to get online with the Wi Fi hotspot was really a big thing and, and a big help. And so, you know, it's it's one of those extras that GM has offered for years and I don't think gets enough credit for so Once I was out on the road in the in the x86, you know, overall it's a really good, good. I would say mid size plus, that's how I saw described it, which I thought was a good description of I mean, it's the nicest reverse there is. Well,

Sam Abuelsamid  15:18  
it's actually based on the Z five not the traverse platform.

Unknown Speaker  15:22  
Well stretched out

Unknown Speaker  15:23  
there. Okay.

Dan Roth  15:26  
No, it did. I thought it drove well, especially in sport mode.

Rebecca Lindland  15:30  
Yes, yes. For sure. I mean, they're, you know, I took I went down to JFK to pick up my sister when she and her husband and daughter flew in from Florida or Kentucky, rather, they were on vacation. She was at a like a horse camp kind of thing. And you know, it was very easy to load, load and unload the bags, you know, very comfortable in the back. My niece is able to charge all of their devices because they were going home to a dark house. And so I do think that you know, from a driving in it, and overall, just a Ownership a week, one week of ownership experience. I think it just did a lot of things really well, you know, it was things were economic where I wanted them to be, I would not have minded more USB ports and maybe, you know, maybe the upper trims, I do that this was the premium which is kind of in the middle, the base of the cars 58,000 and then this was added, as tested was 63, almost 64,000 so it didn't have a ton of accoutrements, but that's okay. I mean, if you want even more you can get this up to 73,000 as I mentioned, but you know, the the fit and finish was really nice. I'm not crazy about the shiny interior, I like to have a matte finish more. And that was a part of the review that I had to take out because I'm confined to 200 words. So the only thing that I would have liked and I would have preferred for a little bit more upscale feel is a matte finish. Finish on the trim You mean like on the trim right on the trim. So it still has that. You know, like the how like the piano black this this wasn't piano black but it's shiny. I mean, it's basically it's shiny and it has that kind of shiny feel. I like that matte, soothing open pore wood kind of experience a little bit more.

Dan Roth  17:22  
I'm looking at the pictures here like it actually looks like it's it's wood to it's just, it's been varnished.

Rebecca Lindland  17:28  
Right. Yeah, it's green. Like it has a green.

Dan Roth  17:31  
Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  17:32  
facade to it, you know, and again, I mean, it's nice. It was, you know, the buttons. The switches were fine. They were where they were supposed to be. I it had a very, very good, very handy wireless charging slot. And that worked really, really well even when I have one of those. Your finger hold things on the back of my phone that Oh, and so a lot of wireless chargers don't work with it. But this one did really well. In screen the screen did get a lot of fingerprints on it which was sub up but you know, overall it was it was nicely done I thought that the basics engine responded really really well to one to power whenever I wanted it. I really you know, I enjoyed the driving experience with it and one of the things that just require it has 310 horsepower as I dug through their site to find to discover a nine speed automatic but you know, I think that this the I think overall driving this Cadillac XC six was just a good solid experience for me, and I enjoyed it. I think it's a really good family car. I think it's, you know, the price point for what you're getting, I feel like is actually pretty good. It's expensive. It's a Cadillac. It's supposed to be expensive, but I felt like overall it really lived up to the name.

Dan Roth  18:53  
Yeah, I liked it. I I struggled a little bit more with it. living up to its name. I did this It does drive very well. I thought the interior and the one I had didn't have even the contrast and color like you had brown seats with the contrast stitching. Mine was all black and so Oh, that's again my complaint about an all black interior like it's a 90 something thousand dollar car but I can't tell you if it's good or bad, you know? Like the feel okay, just you know that it's just

Rebecca Lindland  19:22  
I'm not crazy about black interiors

Dan Roth  19:24  
that for me like one of the things you're paying for is the design and the style and the colors, the material choices and if you go with all black, it's either like, you don't have any imagination or like you're trying to hide something. So that's that's kind of on the people that spec the cars, both for the fleet and for the dealers when the dealers are ordering inventory.

Sam Abuelsamid  19:44  
Yes, you can get colors in these and it does it looks a lot better. And Cadillac has some really great color options for the interior. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  19:52  
they do. And the other thing that that is of note, it doesn't affect the experience at all. But man, they love that Bluhm outline that shield thing like that is everywhere.

Dan Roth  20:05  
That's consistent branding so I'll give a little bit miffed they took the murrelets off. They keep taking elements off the shield. But that's okay. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  20:17  
but it is I mean that is reflected everywhere it's hilarious it's good

Dan Roth  20:22  
looking. I think it's gonna struggle to compete with the navigator in terms of the first impression it makes because the navigator just not really the navigator I'm sorry the theater

Rebecca Lindland  20:33  
aviator right Yeah, well that's it. It's in an interesting niche though because it's, it's a pretty comfortable seven seat. I but it's not huge. You know, it really is that kind of mid size Plus, I mean, it's, it's if you want a little bit more room if you want, you know, a little bit more than a mid size but not as big as something like the Seven, the escalator the navigator. This is that it slots in there kind of nicely, I think. Yeah,

Dan Roth  21:05  
I feel like it's a great choice. It's a great size. You know, especially where the way we both used it right? Like, that's the perfect use case for these. And that's what people are doing with them. It's your around town car. You know what, I gotta go pick up a bunch of people cool. My car can do it. I've got extra seats, we're gonna run to the airport like,

Sam Abuelsamid  21:24  
yes, last year. You know, last summer when I went on the last drive for this thing in DC. I actually did sit in the third row, or, you know, when we were coming back from dinner. Oh, wow. And, you know, because, you know, the, the proportions that they gave this thing you know, it's a little bit taller than an advocate and an aviator is it's shorter. It's not as it's not as long but it is a little bit taller. So you sit a little more upright, but you know, but that third row is actually pretty useful, even for adults. I mean, I wouldn't want to go on a long road trip, you know, sitting you know, sitting in the third row, I'm 511 but You know, for you know, just to go out to dinner or something, you know, have three couples in there. Not Not a big deal you could definitely do it.

Rebecca Lindland  22:07  
Yeah, no, I think I think I really liked this size it was easy for me to get in and out of also the seats to adjust 15,000 different ways. So the visibility was quite good as well. You know, I didn't have any issues with the a pillar. I mean and and one of the things too is that I was literally dodging down trees and branches at any moment because Greenwich I mean, it looks like many tornadoes went through this place. And so you know, all of a sudden I would have to

Sam Abuelsamid  22:35  
stop it when you could run a post store model across with this.

Rebecca Lindland  22:37  
Yes, exactly.

Dan Roth  22:40  
The pricing part was you know, the chassis tuning and the steering feel and everything, especially when you put it in sport mode if it had the adaptive

Rebecca Lindland  22:48  
different drive modes for sure. Um,

Dan Roth  22:50  
it felt like it was tuned by people who who tune cars so

Rebecca Lindland  22:54  
care about it.

Dan Roth  22:57  
And I went right the hell up the merit on this thing. With me thank you for

Rebecca Lindland  23:02  
stopping by. This is a urine lab blah blah blah. Next time I will we have to

Dan Roth  23:07  
get pizza. Oh, excellent Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid  23:11  
pepperoni please.

Dan Roth  23:12  
I used to get no pineapple I used to every bit of the 300 something horsepower, you know and it's a river so you gotta you gotta get it up in the RPM range a little bit to make that to get that power but it just you know, it feels pretty good. So I was impressed with it where I'm less impressed with it is the sort of the I didn't like the capacitive touch stuff on the center console like it works and it's not bad for what it is but it's it's frustrating and distracting. And then just some of the other switchgear that's around it and stuff and just so there's there for the money you start to scratch your head, especially when you look at the competition you go with this one feels nicer whether or not it's actually nicer even even just like the telluride and we'll come back.

Rebecca Lindland  23:56  
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. But I think on this which is the only issue Oh, there I had two things. I hated the fact and this is really stupid, but I hated the fact that the volume was sideways, a ran horizontally, I really like vertical up and down, I was like I can't go wrong or slider or something. It's two separate buttons and they run horizontally on the right side of the steering wheel. And I just I hated that it just it was never something I could get used to. The other thing is the cruise control, putting it in it, it doesn't default to adaptive cruise control. So you have to like ask it and I've run into this with other GM products as well. And you've got to like press a button and then tap the top of your head and rub your belly at the same time and be driving simultaneously. It was super complicated and I I the first time once I got it in adaptive cruise control, it seems to stay there. But it was it was real It was very very distracting and it was really complicated and I basically I did it while I was on the highway of course because that's when you do these things when you're trying to use adaptive cruise control but I and then I was thankful that I finally got it there because I just found it to be really really distracting and and and I didn't have you guys did you have that experience at all? I don't remember

Dan Roth  25:29  
where but there are some cars that it does like they have two different buttons and you've got to look and see which one and decipher that the hunting ionic I drove last week I think had the same thing where it was a button for cruise and different button for adaptive cruise or maybe it was just the RAM and we'll get to everything I've been driving. Yes, I know we do have to get everything driving but uh, the I don't remember it being that difficult. I do remember not liking the secondary controls that much.

Rebecca Lindland  25:58  
Maybe I just it's not intuitive for And you know how I am with technology I can break it really easily so learning

Dan Roth  26:03  
technologies that's your job is to make it easy for people to get the right.

Sam Abuelsamid  26:08  
Work. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  26:09  
I just thought it would default I I can appreciate having the choice because I think there are a lot of people I'm not a huge fan of adaptive cruise control. So I appreciate having the choice. My issue was that it was so complicated getting there and it's as if Cruise is pretty good, but it's not right for every situation and that's the same with every car you know, like

Dan Roth  26:31  
exactly sometimes you want regular cruise.

Rebecca Lindland  26:34  
So what are you driving anyway?

Dan Roth  26:36  
So this week, finishing up with a Subaru Outback XT onyx edition.

Rebecca Lindland  26:43  
Oh, my neighbor just bought a Subaru Outback on my recommendation Subaru

Dan Roth  26:48  
Yeah, I mean it's it's a good wagon. It's priced well this send the check to Rebecca drives.

Rebecca Lindland  26:53  
exactly this.

Dan Roth  26:55  
This one has the advertising dollars. The X that's I think that the bigger change where before you had the the 2.5 liter that had like 180 something horsepower. This gets the the turbo 2.4 that has 260 something so it's a lot more lively it's actually pretty quick on its feet, which is an interesting trick with the CVT that is still it's good but it's still dope because it's a CVT. But it does it has a powerful bit of torque to it that was missing from the last legacy and Outback that I drove. So that's good. The power train has been upgraded. It looks good. It's pretty comfortable in this trim. Again, it's priced pretty well. It doesn't drive great. That's my problem. Like it's a it's a solid platform you can tell that they've done a lot of work to make sure that the body structure is pretty pretty rigid. So it writes okay, but it's it's it's bouncing As my wife described it, you know, it's it's sort of like a mid rise, you know, so it's not a full SUV, but they've taken a wagon and made it an SUV. And so they've added some, some sort of nautical motion to the, to the suspension, which I don't really like, you know, it'll hang on if you if you make it, you know, go through a set of curves, it'll, it'll do fine. It's not,

Sam Abuelsamid  28:24  
it's not a bad thing under damped or over sprung,

Dan Roth  28:27  
it feels overspray like, it's, it's, it's not stiff in that sense, though, like, you know, like overspray would imply that it's like, harsh over bumps. It's not really, it's, you know, what it is? It's maybe some not enough robar you know, like, it just it leans over but it also like, tosses your head around a little bit like and that's just in

Rebecca Lindland  28:51  
every situation like when like, No, do you think it's because it's, it's got to have that like level of offroad or ruggedness to it.

Dan Roth  29:00  
I think they've had to balance a lot of things, you know, it's got higher and higher and it's got to have, you know, compliance. It's okay. It's good over bad pavement, it's actually decent on like gravel roads and stuff, I thought it was actually quite in its element there felt really good. So they've had to make this all arounder. And so in certain situations, you know, like the middle of a curve on a broken pavement back road here in New England, where there's like a zillion of that, it will start to bounce your head around a little bit. And so it feels a little bit rough, but not harsh, which is we're using all kinds of adjectives don't make it but, but I didn't love the ride. Um, and I didn't love the handling. Because I think it's it that's, it's what it's supposed to be, it's trusty, it's not going to get you in trouble. So that's fine. I'm the on center feel like if you're on the highway or something, it sort of wanders a bit, you know, and that's, that's something that I think is probably a function of the tires, and the tuning in all that together but really when I'm on the highway I want a car that like locks in like a

Sam Abuelsamid  30:05  
mid 70s old Cutlass.

Dan Roth  30:07  
Yeah not quite as bad you can't see it with your pinky. You know like I'm sure that's what they were going for me lock to lock you know it's a good car they really know their market I love how Subaru is really they've got a lot of thought put into the the way you can accessorize it for this the stuff you can do with it, you know and so you can get the different roofrack options and the different storage and stuff like that they're they're really dog friendly brand which I think is cool because when once you become a dog owner This is one of those things that nobody tells you but once you become a dog owner like that they are more precious to you than your children take them everywhere and do everything with them. And the cars super is a brand that's really attentive to that and I really liked the actually quite liked the interior in this one. It has a it's like they're their version of me texts like super super texts or so star texts or whatever upholstered It's not leather, but it's not like cheap cheap vinyl. It's a material that feels good to the touch it looks good, the seats are pretty comfortable in this particular one. So, you know I give it a give it marks for design and interior quality, which are two areas. interior quality is an area that that Subaru has struggled with in the past so they're coming up on on the competition there. The problem is ergonomics have taken a whack and super has always been good with ergonomics, but they've got this new tablet size center screen. That's like their version of census and it's not any better.

Rebecca Lindland  31:41  
I remember that thing. That thing is huge. Yeah. In the center.

Unknown Speaker  31:44  
Yeah, it's because I went on this drive an inch screen. It's

Dan Roth  31:47  
Yeah, it's a big screen. It's nice when you do CarPlay it uses a portion of the screen for CarPlay and still leave some other stuff down below. But, you know, the secondary controls are confusing, and you know,

Rebecca Lindland  31:59  
they do have volume and tuning knob they do,

Dan Roth  32:01  
I will get to appreciate that sometimes that volume knob became very unresponsive. So you just sit there spinning it and you get nothing and then all of a sudden, just a like, blast off. Yeah. So it's a great way to want to punch the screen. You know, I don't love the graphics on it. I think that all automakers get a little too distracted making these things look really sharp for presentations or brochures and what is really necessary when you consider what you're asking people to do is take the colors out, increase the contrast, don't get too fancy, don't use animations and stuff and make these things really easy to glance at. And that's one of the problems I have is that the elements are kind of small. But like the HVC controls, when you go to adjust them, they'll come up larger on the screen. You can do what you need to do, but you have to stare at it to figure out what it is you want when you're when you're new to the car. I think as an owner this problem It goes away a little bit, but you still got to look at it to figure out what what you're trying to ask it to do. And if you look too long it times out, expect No, leave the controls where I want verto

Sam Abuelsamid  33:13  
This is why none of that stuff should ever be in a touchscreen interface. Physical controls that don't move, they're always in the same place. You could do it by field without looking at them but

Dan Roth  33:23  
there's nothing wrong with you there. You know, like I, I get it, you and you want to leave it in auto fine. Like that's the answer is leaving auto but that's not all of us want that? Well, you should

Rebecca Lindland  33:37  
well just like I get a pepperoni pizza.

Dan Roth  33:41  
I love the pepperoni pizza, which you have to as as a designer of machines that people are going to use to like you've got to create more than one way to skin a cat. Because,

Rebecca Lindland  33:53  
hey, now that

Dan Roth  33:55  
that's where that's where you have to study and it's like some people are Gonna do it exactly the way you want to do it. And that's great. But other people are going to, they're going to break your stuff. And you have to account for them breaking your stuff and make it so that your stuff doesn't break. And and the input mode doesn't become really frustrating. So I thought that there was some annoyances, you know, another thing like there was no real place to stick my phone except for a little cubby up in front of the shifter, which is also where the, the port for USB and for CarPlay is. And that's actually awkward to plug the cable in, like I had to finagle my wrist around to get in there. It's you can't that's not okay. Um, and I was like, did the

Sam Abuelsamid  34:35  
USB port in the center console?

Dan Roth  34:37  
Yeah. Oh, I don't know under the maybe under the armrest? Yeah. You know, the charging port is right, right there.

Rebecca Lindland  34:45  
Well, cuz you know, there still is that conversation of that you should be putting your phone away. You know, and that's

Sam Abuelsamid  34:51  
why I asked you know, a lot of times you'll find a USB port up in the front like what you just described in and then additional ports in this sentence. console been under the arm wrestle? Yeah, you plug in there, put your phone in there and then you don't touch it again while you're driving.

Dan Roth  35:06  
That may be that may be easier. But then you forget the phone. You know, like, again, accounting for people and us weirdos. So, like, that's not a bad thing to I'll look for that. But it's still it's difficult to plug stuff into that one that's up in front of the shifter. Like you just can't actually reach the port under the the way they designed the opening. It's

Rebecca Lindland  35:27  
right it's very awkward to get around. Yeah,

Dan Roth  35:29  
and that yes, that was surprising. You know, I think that it's it's definitely overall it's a great card if you want to legacy or I mean an Outback you know you're gonna get you know, it's matured steadily with each generation. It hasn't lost the Subaru character, which I think is that's a pretty neat trick because it's gotten a lot more refined every time they've ridden it.

Rebecca Lindland  35:49  
That is this also so designed and sold in Japan because I'm wondering if it's easier on the with the right hand drive. I don't reach those controls. cuz I've run into this with other cars, it seems like they're pretty. Like, where these are. They're not tilted one way or another. They're just

Sam Abuelsamid  36:08  
yeah, look, I'm looking at the photo,

Rebecca Lindland  36:10  
right. But I just wonder if you are like with your, you know, if you're sitting on the right, if you're on the driver's seat on the right side, is it easier?

Unknown Speaker  36:19  
That's a lot.

Rebecca Lindland  36:20  
Yeah. And, as opposed to sitting on the left side, and then you're reaching, you know, kind of reaching around the center console, reaching around the shift the gear selector,

Dan Roth  36:30  
for the way left, Hank, I'll sit in the passenger seat.

Sam Abuelsamid  36:33  
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't look like it would be. Yeah, I'm looking at this because it's, you know, everything's all pretty much lined up along the centerline of the car. And it doesn't look like it would make any difference really which direction you were coming out of

Dan Roth  36:46  
it. But you know, I'll play with it. Because you know, just the way your your wrists work and stuff. That's interesting. I'll fiddle with that. Well,

Rebecca Lindland  36:54  
yeah, I'd be I'd be curious if you still have the car. I think that'd be curious to see. If it does make any difference. It's just You know, like an idea have to try that because I've run into that. I remember sitting in a Lexus one time, and the footwell came out, I was in, I was in the driver's seat. And the footwell came out and hit me I remember talking about on the show on this, I it hit me in the knee, and I was like, what is going on with this and it's because they didn't change it for the right and left hand side. And so it's, it's, you're fine as a passenger with that there. But once you become the driver, it causes problems. And so that's what made me think of it like, Is it is it a Is it an economics thing, but Yeah, I agree. So I'm looking at the pictures. It doesn't seem like it would be but it's, you know, it's a nice looking interior. They did a nice job I think with materials and I remember having a little bit different experience I quite enjoy driving it at the same time. I hadn't spent a lot of time in a Subaru and so you know, we and we did off roading we you know, we took it on some some nice trails and stuff and it was really, really good for that. So I always give a card That's that is good. On the off road, I always give it a little bit more leeway on road if it can, you know if it's well behaved on road as well but because you're you're always sound like there's just some compromises that are going on, I'd love to have one here at home at some point to really just drive it on the highway or, you know, pay bros and see how it is. It's

Dan Roth  38:21  
not It's not bad. I think what I wanted was it to be a little bit more plush on the road or just a little bit more more disciplined with that the way it sort of holds the center lane on the highway, you know, right. Yeah, some of that's personal preference. I think if you are looking for a vehicle like this, there's not a whole lot of choice, especially now that Buicks leaving the market. There's the the Volkswagen is a little smaller.

Rebecca Lindland  38:49  
I mean, that like semi wagon. Yeah, crossover kind of feel.

Dan Roth  38:53  
And yeah, you've got, you know, more expensive choices. So this is in a really sweet spot says under $40,000. It's really well equipped, it's very nicely outfitted, it's comfortable, it looks good. It's really functional and has all the safety tech you know the the eyesight stuff and that actually works great pretty well. The adaptive cruise works well the lane centering actually worked out all wheel drive. Yeah. You know, with the new engine, it has pleasing power, it's actually quick. And it doesn't use as much gas as the old the 3.6 or used to be the way to get a powerful Outback. And that one's sounded awesome because there's a flat six sounded like a Porsche, but it's willed fuel. This one is going to give you better fuel economy, especially with the CVT so it's a really solid update. I think the the the controls and stuff that bugs us may not bug other folks quite as much. Although, you know, given the wide demographic of people that that buy these, some people are going to get it and really immediately take to it. Other people like my parents are in their 70s and my mom drives a forest I think some of that stuff and she told me she's like add does all kinds of stuff I don't know how to do I was like that's kind of good value like it's good it defaults to being on but it's bad that like you're not going to know what it's doing when it does you know

Rebecca Lindland  40:15  
well and keep in mind too that onyx edition you mentioned the water repellent upholstery and so that onyx is kind of a special for a special specific audience. But it is you know, as opposed to like the limited or that touring the limited x at the top of the line you know, so the touring zero is the top of the line but you know that onyx edition does have some some specifically designed features, particularly that water repellent apology or

Dan Roth  40:47  
it may actually even have a different suspension tune on it that is a little different than the limiter deterring so

Rebecca Lindland  40:54  
I yeah, it's got the dual function x mode. He'll just send control Yeah. But yeah, so that I mean, it's a cool, as you said, it gets a cool looking vehicle. It's, you know, but it is designed. I mean, maybe that suspension is a little bit looser for

Dan Roth  41:09  
offroad. And that could be felt great when I had it on gravel roads. I wanted to go fast and

Rebecca Lindland  41:14  
rally drive. Well, and again, that's what you're gonna compromise a little bit on, right? Yeah, like when you have that feeling, you know, of being able that confidence of being able to go fast on a gravel road. That same competence may not translate quite as easily. Yeah, to pavement.

Dan Roth  41:30  
So Alright, um, the other stuff I was doing I had for the storm, my mobile office was a 20 2020 Ram 1500 Laramie night edition. This was a $68,000 1500 which is absurdly expensive, and I don't think it even had that many options, I think had had a couple of expensive option packages. One of them was I think, 3000 the other was like 4000. But it was like looking at the sticker. I'm like, it's it doesn't seem Like it's that much of a stretch to get from 46 which is the base price of this model to 68, which is where it wound up. It's like, that's so much money for 1500 I mean, it's a nice truck is the Laramie so it's, you know, nicely appointed inside it's very comfortable to leave it idling in the driveway. While I tethered and charged up stuff I had like I had my video editing stuff.

Rebecca Lindland  42:26  
How did you guys lose power for

Dan Roth  42:28  
lost power for about a day? 24 hours? Okay. So just long enough to ruin a bunch of stuff in the fridge.

Rebecca Lindland  42:33  
Nice. Yeah, exactly. My whole fridge when

Dan Roth  42:37  
I went borrowed a generator was a truck was handy to pick up a generator from my brother in law. And you know, we get this it's a big one. It's at 500 watts and we put it down, started up plug stuff in the house and then three hours later, all the power comes back. Yeah. But that's okay. Um, so, you know, they're this at the torque VA, which is good. It feels a little bit more More punchy than you'd expect because the the hammy is a little bit as a lot to deal with with the Ram 1500 This is a heavy truck. And that is what sort of dings in payload it trailering is fine but the ram you have to sort of carefully look at in 1500s like what can I actually put in this and also put people in and stuff because it's it's payload number is really a function of which engine which drive system and which cab you've got. So it's a really nice luxury car. I don't think it's, you know, as much a pickup as it is just a classical fullframe luxury car. This is Your Imperial

Sam Abuelsamid  43:40  
with a really big drop.

Dan Roth  43:42  
Yeah, with an enormous trunk. Um, you know, and I didn't I actually didn't like the the tonneau cover that it has is a three piece Tano that folds up, folds up weird. It's kind of cumbersome. That's an accessory so just watch out for that. I liked all the features you had power running boards and had The tailgate I don't know what the ram tailgate is up like tailgate Yeah, but I had to split tailgate it opens like a door, you know paradores or down and it's very clever and it looks like a durable solution that you know, isn't isn't quite as fiddly as the GMC multipro tailgate that's like a Swiss Army knife. You know that the room is easy to love. It's very comfortable it rides and handles like, you know, it weighs a gazillion pounds because it does it's it's geared well though, you know, the power train is really good. I think this engine transmission combo is as as worthy of praise as any of the GM smallblock stuff. It's just just a really good power train. And that the torque I think helps fill in the gaps. So it's a nice truck, but it's also like if you're buying a $68,000 pickup you need to address your priorities. The 1500 is not where you should be. If you need to work truck, you should be buying a heavy duty truck, which is also going to be nice for $70,000. So that's that's sort of my quick take on that. And then ionic phv I quite a quite liked that. But I think that that is a dead man walking just that car. Second, you need to take that tech and put it in regular cars and crossovers. You know,

Sam Abuelsamid  45:23  
which is you know, to their credit is what they're doing. Yeah, you've got the the Sonata Hybrid, the Elantra hybrid. There's a sonata plug in hybrid, I think coming back again, you know, same basic thing, but you know, with the two liter engine instead of the one six. We'll probably see that that plugin in the next generation Tucson. So they're putting it into a bunch of stuff,

Rebecca Lindland  45:47  
but they're also expanding that on a brand name. Right,

Sam Abuelsamid  45:50  
right. Right when

Unknown Speaker  45:52  
we talked about time. Did we talk

Dan Roth  45:55  
about the last week I see talk about it. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  45:57  
Okay. I couldn't remember.

Dan Roth  45:58  
We talked about it last week. Door is definitely closing for this sort of dedicated hybrid model you know, Toyota's not selling as many priuses as it used to and I think this ionic is the same same thing it does it does exactly what it says it's going to do so it's a very good hybrid it actually felt pretty sporty to drive in a surprising way You know, there's this genuine steering feel and the the low rolling resistance tires it just the right amount of greasy so you can actually slide it around which I thought was surprising and amusing. And it's you know, this I had the limited so it's it's nicely appointed, and I didn't find the actually the touch sensitive switches as objectionable here. The Hyundai infotainment is in secondary controls are better done. So

Rebecca Lindland  46:44  
I think I'm getting that vehicle in a couple of weeks. Actually.

Dan Roth  46:47  
I hope it's not the one that I drove. I mean, I mean,

Rebecca Lindland  46:51  
I'll look into

Dan Roth  46:52  
the scars on it. I actually didn't do anything to damage it.

Rebecca Lindland  46:56  
Thank you. I'll look and see which I don't know if she's given me the truth. level that I'm getting.

Dan Roth  47:00  
Yeah, it's it's a nice car. I'll be interested to see what you have to say about it. It's it's a little loud on the highway. But, you know that's that's I think just the function of hybrids. They're all kind of like that.

Rebecca Lindland  47:13  
Oh, you know what? I'm not actually getting it until October. That's not the Hyundai ionic electric limited.

Sam Abuelsamid  47:21  
Okay. That's a battery. That's the battery electric version. So no. Okay. Engine at all in that one.

Unknown Speaker  47:25  
Yeah, just okay.

Rebecca Lindland  47:27  
Yeah, that's what I'm getting. I'll keep you posted.

Sam Abuelsamid  47:34  
All right. So why don't we go back to ram for a minute. It made a little bit of an announcement yesterday. Yeah. There's a new there's a new Ram 1500 variants coming this fall called the TR x which we actually first heard about. They did a concept version back in 2016 that they took to the Texas State Fair and during their during FCA raise capital markets day in 2018. When they were doing their latest five year plan, they said that they're going to build a production version of the TR x and now it's finally here and they put a Hellcat in it

Rebecca Lindland  48:18  
as you do

Sam Abuelsamid  48:20  
wall if you're FCA that is what you do you know okay so got everything

Dan Roth  48:25  
this annoyed a lot of people who felt the need to comment like a they're they're trashing the environment and I understand that's not a not a fuel efficient vehicle I you know there that is a that is a definite concern, but also FCA needs to make revenue. So that's another concern. And people have shown that they'll they'll buy very expensive pickups and yes, it's half pointless. But also people will buy it and they don't have anything else. They don't have car platforms. They're trying to finish up their deal with PSA. It's going to open up a lot of stuff. So it doesn't make any sense for them to not do what they're doing. Like, your only option really is just Hellcat everything.

Rebecca Lindland  49:10  
Look, there's 400 other different types of cars to buy, buy something else, if you don't like it, nobody's forcing anybody to buy this vehicle. So I get it, I understand the concerns, but it's just great fun. I mean, it's, you know,

Sam Abuelsamid  49:28  
they probably will be a blast, you know, to run this thing across the desert. You know, 700 horsepower. You know, I mean, I've driven I've driven the rebel, you know, which is really good. I like the rebel. Yeah, it's, you know, and you know, that's, you know, just with a even with a V six, you know, it's really good. But they you know, this thing you know, with a 702 horsepower, supercharged da, you know, is gonna outdo everything that's out there right now. What's going to be interesting You know, is it's funny, you know, tr x, you know, they call this thing the apex predator of full size offroad trucks, you know, like the like the Tyrannosaurus Rex was that's you know hence

Dan Roth  50:11  
me but I actually wonder okay like, what's the Tyrannosaurus Rex action apex predator? Do we just think?

Sam Abuelsamid  50:17  
Well, everybody perceives it as the apex predator

Dan Roth  50:20  
social media they've done the same kind of thing or like they've it's the T rex had a huge head and tiny little chicken arms and like it was all in balance that's exactly what we have here a huge engine

Rebecca Lindland  50:33  
and tiny little arms to the credit,

Sam Abuelsamid  50:35  
you know, that they have I think they have actually balanced it out with the, with the chassis as well. I mean if if made, you know, basically completely revamped the chassis, you know, this thing's eight inches wider than a standard 1500 you know, so, you know, it's got a lot more wheel mode, you know, wheel travel capability. You know, it's it's really set up for high speed off road driving or low speed off road driving for that. Matter, you know, and an FCA knows how to do off road stuff, you know, as they've shown with Jeep, and, and even with the ram rebel and the Power Wagon. But, you know, the thing is, you know that the original T Rex, you know, eventually turned into crude oil, you know, this thing, you know, this, this really seems like the end of an era, you know, this is probably, you know, this and the next generation Raptor will probably be the last of this type of truck that we see with a big powerful internal combustion engine. And Rumor has it that the new Raptor is going to go back to a V eight instead of the EcoBoost v six. But, you know, we also have coming, you know, a year from now, the GMC Hummer ev rivian. At some point, you know, the cybertruck you know, Ford's got an electric f150 coming. And, you know, I mean, these, you know, especially the Hummer, you know, and and the cybertruck are gonna be, you know, really powerful you know, Electric pickups and that that Hummer is going to be very offroad capable too. So, you know, you're gonna, this is like the last of a generation, you know, before you start to get into these electric variants of these things,

Dan Roth  52:15  
I think to the electric stuff is gonna, because of just the weight and the packaging, that's going to change the way those trucks actually go across the terrain, you're going to be able to take the electric trucks and they like, they'll fly really stavely You know, they're heavy, but once you get them airborne, like they're, they're gonna be stable,

Sam Abuelsamid  52:36  
and they're gonna have momentum on your side. Yeah,

Dan Roth  52:38  
so that's gonna make it that's gonna be a different kind of truck. So I'll be interested to see what that is. I do think you're right it's it this probably is sort of the last gasp of this stuff. these are these are your super birds and your your daytonas that's, that's what these are now, so get them and it's interesting to like you said that the original T rex turned into crude oil this time. Mix is brings it all full circle because it's going to consume of a crude oil.

Sam Abuelsamid  53:05  
Yep. And then go extinct. Yeah.

Dan Roth  53:09  
Um metaphor we love I so I understand the criticism of it, but I think that it's a really well thought out package, I think it It complements the Raptor in the marketplace and it does stuff that the Raptor doesn't as well like it has carved out its niche and there's there's room for these things. So let's see how long it lasts. It's it'll be a fad, it'll

Sam Abuelsamid  53:34  
probably build these for a couple of years, you know, and then you'll wind it down. Or as long as as long as people are willing to buy them. As long as there's a long as there's enough customers for it, they'll keep building them.

Rebecca Lindland  53:46  
They're just cheap. If I lived any, anywhere that this would be appropriate as in like out with access to deserts and off roads and stuff like that I've been this thing would be an absolute riot. I love it.

Dan Roth  54:01  
I think you should definitely get one of these in Greenwich and just, you know,

Rebecca Lindland  54:07  
go into the back country and

Dan Roth  54:10  
not actually supposed to be there. But see if you can get to Canada, along the

Sam Abuelsamid  54:15  
straight line from your house to Canada. Get there.

Dan Roth  54:20  
Do all your towing your own house like

Rebecca Lindland  54:23  
my tiny house? Yeah.

Dan Roth  54:24  
To my house to come back.

Sam Abuelsamid  54:28  
It's awesome.

Dan Roth  54:31  
Good, good for them for Jake. Keeping, keeping things rolling. It is a business after all. And so we don't always agree with every choice those companies make, but they need to stay around so they can make the things that we want them to make. I'm really interested in the small cars, the sales of the Ram teawrex will fund.

Sam Abuelsamid  54:54  
Yeah, well. They're also doing a lot of electrification. Now Yeah, not so much right now until after they finished the PSA merger on full battery electric stuff, but they're doing a lot of plug in hybrids. Starting with the Wrangler this fall and the Jeep recently revealed released a teaser video of the Wrangler plugin, the four xe as they call it, you know, where you know, you just see this Wrangler kind of silently going through, you know, down this trail and longer river pass the animals. So, you know, they're not completely ignoring that marketplace.

Dan Roth  55:32  
Yeah, they're they're working on it. They need to get some working capital going. And yeah, I so the business side of that is is really I think holding stuff up for both. I don't want to say FCA anymore. But But getting this de Lantus merger complete will allow brands to do what they're doing. That's right. Yeah. But tell you're talking. Go ahead.

Rebecca Lindland  55:56  
No, I just laughed, he said still antas I said Bless you. Oh, Yes, well joke.

Dan Roth  56:02  
still hate the name. But talking about the Wrangler is a good, good place for us to pivot to the the bronco and some first impressions of that one. Because they are direct competitors in the marketplace and that was actually we were following a Wrangler Unlimited last night in the car and I was telling rifles like, I want to try the bronco like I think that's going to be a really cool vehicle and different enough on its own. But you guys have seen more of it than I have. So does that hold up?

Sam Abuelsamid  56:36  
What do you think Rebecca? You saw it yesterday in New York.

Rebecca Lindland  56:39  
I did see it for the first time yesterday. And natural habitat course right outside of Wall Street exactly where it's supposed to be. I really liked it a lot. I think that they did some really thoughtful design elements to it. I you know, as I've said before, it's Italy. Looks like it's supposed to look, I think they did a really thoughtful things I love the on top of the dash, there's the gear, this gear rack where you can plug in things like your GoPro cameras and stuff and, and it's really you know, that's that is one of those like celebrations of how this vehicle is going to be used. I liked the fact that it had auxiliary buttons already pre pre wired and connected to the fuse where you can add on lights on the top and you know, different different accessories like it. It works directly with how people are going to use this product. And they recognize that they embrace it, and they they celebrated it and I think those kinds of elements are really really cool. It was it was easy to get in and out of the four door was a little bit easier because I had the running boards, the two door sets Hi, you don't have 32 inch tires on it. But once inside I think they did a good job of refining the interior. You know, I think Ford overall for tends to do some pretty nice interiors. And this one had some elements to it that I really enjoyed. I mean, it was one of those like I'm always kind of looking to see okay did you think of this and did you think of that and pretty much everything that I wanted it to have it has in it, I you know, they had this, this weight bearing pullout table in the back that then you can use to climb on to the top to adjust things on the roof, which was really really clever. I that that was probably the only wrinkle was that they I would have loved to have had a foot well in built into the corner to be able to get onto that table a little bit more gracefully to then adjust the roofrack things but just the fact that they thought of making that table, a weight bearing option was was, again just how they they clearly listened. to research read research and appreciated it and I think it is going to give Jeep a run for its money it's going to give people an alternative that they haven't really had before.

Sam Abuelsamid  59:12  
Yeah, you know as of last week they had over 165,000 pre orders for the bronco two door and four door. They haven't said how many orders they've gotten for the the bronco sport yet, but you know, there's clearly a lot of interest in this vehicle and we did publish a special episode last week where I talked to rob Gilardi who is the chief interior designer for the the bronco two door or four door and Scott Anderson, who's the chair design lead for the bronco sport about some of those design design decisions they made.

Rebecca Lindland  59:48  
Did you see the bronco sport yet? Oh, yeah, really? They didn't have one there either.

Sam Abuelsamid  59:52  
Yeah, they had. I suspect that the reason they didn't bring one to New York on Monday is that Because they, you know, they were really emphasizing, you know, these, the two, you know, they had the F 150 and the Broncos there, right? Yeah. And the press release was really talking about you know how Ford makes more vehicles in the US than anybody else. You know, really focusing on that. That whole Made in America thing. And the bronco sports actually going to be made in Mexico. Oh yeah, no, they the event I went to last week. They they did have the bronco sport in addition to the two door and four door and we actually got to go for rides in both the bronco sport and the bronco two door. Okay, cool. Yeah, at this new RV park that is opening up here about an hour north of Detroit. And, you know, both are really impressive vehicles. You know, the the bronco sport, you know, is clearly very much a competitor for the Jeep Compass. Trailhawk

Rebecca Lindland  1:00:54  
right. We should remind listeners that it's a car base that's

Sam Abuelsamid  1:00:58  
based it's based on the same Very different vehicle actually. Yeah, so you know, they took it took the escape this time is it when they redesigned the escape and they split it, they made the escape more car like because they were also creating the separate vehicle this rugged off road vehicle that we know where Jeep has, you know the range of complices and the same goes for the other crossovers that you know are you know within the same vehicle you know are more car like and true off road capability. The Bronco sport is the off road rugged version of that. And it's got a lot of neat things like that taller roof in the back that step roof so it you can get a rack that goes inside and put your mountain bikes inside the vehicle, you know, so they're not outside exposed likely to get stolen.

Dan Roth  1:01:46  
That's great. But my one complaint about that is it it consumes the rear

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01:53  
leaves leaves you with only two seats. Yeah,

Dan Roth  1:01:54  
so that's the screen for that young there's only two likes afford the car It goes away when there's kids.

Rebecca Lindland  1:02:04  
One thing I'll be curious about, you know, the roll bar in the Wrangler is over is in between the passenger is in between the front seats in the back seats and the roll bars in the middle there. The roll bar on this is behind the, on the fourth on the four door, I believe it's behind the second row. And I asked about crash test worthiness and they haven't gone through that yet. So I'll be curious to see like rollover and

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:32  
how that I expect it'll be, you know, comparable to to what

Rebecca Lindland  1:02:36  
i would i would think so. But I was it was a notable change engineering change that they've done and I hadn't seen a car with that. I was trying to remember them like speakers like the Evoque doesn't even have a roll bar.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:51  
Yeah. This one, you know, I mean, you've got you've got a full roll bar system in here that goes across and down the eight pillars. Uh huh. So, you know, I don't expect that to be an issue. You know?

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:04  
Yeah, I would think that they would have done that they did the simulation testing on it. Yeah. But it is a notable design difference.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:12  
The, the, the bronco two door that I got to ride in was actually it had the four cylinder engine and the seven speed manual transmission so we didn't get to drive we were riding along with Ford engineers doing the doing the drive and the the two door that seven speed is actually really a six speed plus a crawler gear. So when you when you put it in that low that crawler gear and put put it in four wheel drive low, that's where you get that 95 to one crawl ratio. And, you know, we were going through the course just in in for high we didn't he didn't even put it in for low and it had no problem at all going through all this stuff. You know You know, through all the different kinds of terrain that they had in there, it was, I think, you know, it wasn't perhaps quite as challenging as some of the terrain on the the Chrysler Proving Grounds off road course. But we got her Yeah, I think that you know, it will probably do just fine you know, I mean, they've been they've been posting a bunch of videos and photos, last couple of weeks of this thing running Rubicon, you know, along with some Wranglers. So I have I have no doubt this thing's gonna do do great. You know, to the what you're talking about the design touches you know, some of the neat things they did that that Rob talked about, was you know, at the ends of the dashboard are cut away you know, they're angled away. And then you've got those grab handles that are on there which are, by the way are removable, as as the grab handle that's on the center console so you can you can reposition them. But when you look through the the grab handle, if you have this The doors off, you can actually see right through there. And you know, they've cut away the dash to, at the end to really maximize that visibility so you can see all around you. And they've also got when you're running it low below 20 miles an hour, you can have the surround view cameras on all the time. So they did that they had this around view cameras on so you can see what's right in front of you.

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:23  
And that's so critical when you're off road.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:26  
Oh, yeah. So you Yeah, when you're, when you're coming up over the crest of a hill or you know, going over a boulder. You want to be able to see where everything is around you. You know because when you're, you know you're coming up a steep hill and then going over the top. You can't see what's on the other side. I mean, that camera there on allows you to see what's there, which is really, really important. So it's, you know, I think I think the Broncos gonna do fine, you know, and that the four cylinder I think it's going to be about 275 horsepower in the bronco and You know, it's it's got plenty of power and torque. And the the ones we wrote in had the 32 inch wheels on them. They'll also there's also an option for 35. And also, you know, in the, the one I was in, you know, it had the drain plug in the floor so you can guess rubberized floor with a drain plug that you can take out so you can hose down is that standard? Is it No, it's optional.

Rebecca Lindland  1:06:23  
Oh, okay. Because Because though the both of the vehicles they had had them and and it's Yeah, I love that.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:30  
It's standard on some trim levels, optional liners. You know, there's just a lot of really, really cool things they did with the doors on the four door. You know, because they made them frameless so that you can stash them in the back and you know, when they decided to make that change, so you could stash the doors in the back. They actually had to do a lot of reengineering, you know, to make you know, so you could slide them into the slots and in the back of the back of the cargo area.

Rebecca Lindland  1:07:00  
But and then they also have those cool like tubular doors as well but they have

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:05  
great elbows as a factory accessory. Yeah, that is really neat looking, there's gonna be a lot of accessories and one of the things that you know, that works out great for FCA with the, with the Wrangler is there's this huge range of accessories you can buy both, you know, through Mopar as well as through third parties. And, you know, there's there's a lot of profit margin on these executives.

Dan Roth  1:07:25  
It's like a Barbie doll. Exactly.

Rebecca Lindland  1:07:30  
Or GI Joe? Yeah, we're gender neutral there. And what they're absolutely killing it on the marketing part of it, too. I mean, I think that they're really doing an amazing job. Keeping momentum up on these things. You know, it doesn't come out until the next spring, I think is like a year or the year from now. About nine months from now. Early 2021 production. Yeah, so, but you know, they're really doing a great job with this buzz because there's a ton of buzz and there's a lot of people We're really interested in it. One of the things too to that point on the guy that showed me around Esteban, he said that the the knobs and the bolts that you as a consumer can adjust and take off and such, they have, they're all marked with Bronco so that you know whether you can make adjustments to that particular bolt as you come across it in the vehicle, which again, I thought was really just a really thoughtful touch. It's cool, they've done a fantastic job. It's really I can't wait for it to come out and I can't wait to drive it.

Dan Roth  1:08:38  
Yeah, I mean, they really learned I think from the Raptor, a lot of lessons about how to do a vehicle like this special vehicle with an offer of focus, and they clearly studied real hard, both the Wrangler as well, so

Rebecca Lindland  1:08:50  
Well, I mean, they've got Yeah, they take advantage of, you know, 6070 years of Wrangler sales and yeah, it Sales and Use, you know, it's good. They did It'll be interesting to see how people if there's an authenticity, you know, because Jeep has sort of has obviously been in this landscape for years, and decades now, all the way through. And so it'll be interesting to see how the consumer, you know how many people I convert and and trade over and go over to from a Jeep to a bronco?

Dan Roth  1:09:26  
Yeah, I think there's going to be that crossover audience. And it's also just going to be people who buy the bronco who wouldn't consider the jeep. And so they found a little niche for themselves. Yeah, so good, good. It's exciting. It's exciting times to complete ban we talked about.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:45  
Yeah, there will be an electrified version of this, you know, at some point, you know, either hybrid or plug in hybrid. You know, that that's gonna be arriving sometime in the next couple of years.

Dan Roth  1:09:55  
Yeah, so get ready. Hopefully we're all still employed by that time we can we can afford it. Alright, so you know what? We talked about the ionic last time. I'm pretty sure if we didn't we'll talk about it next time. Okay. We have some questions to get to. And

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:15  
so let's start with the most important Yes, I was gonna say from progroup teeny in light of the looming pepperoni, what are your thoughts on pizza toppings? Is pineapple acceptable? Why or why not? Please feel free to personally attack each other's character over this. And I suspect that I will be doing exactly that momentarily.

Dan Roth  1:10:32  
Well, Becca, no, no, no, hang on. Do we need to get this a little bit of backstory here. So

Rebecca Lindland  1:10:38  
the backstory here

Dan Roth  1:10:39  
yesterday, um, Rebecca tweeted about the pepperoni shortage, and I purposely trolled her as long as ham and pineapple, hold out, which she replied, those should never be allowed on pizza. And apparently this still like a pizza Twitter thread going on. It's like with car Twitter. So I don't know if it's really related or separate or

Rebecca Lindland  1:11:03  
somebody somebody took this way too seriously and talked about freedom of choice and all this Bs and it's like just giving the child back and step away for a minute this is a discussion I was really pissed off by that I have

Dan Roth  1:11:18  
I think it's

Rebecca Lindland  1:11:18  
just it's like come on

Dan Roth  1:11:21  
not everything is that serious? We were just like, eat what you want to eat but like yeah, I and that's sort of the point I got there is like what To each their own. I just you know, I don't like mushrooms. Oh, I will eat the hell out of a pineapple and ham pizza but I get that some people find that disgusting.

Rebecca Lindland  1:11:38  
And, and the fact of the matter is, I actually do love ham on pizza. It just has to be called bacon

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:51  
and bacon to different parts of the pig.

Rebecca Lindland  1:11:54  
You can Yes you can. Not adverse to pig on pizza. It just has to be called bacon.

Dan Roth  1:12:00  
Yeah, well and I offended somebody in Canada too by saying like, Well, fine pizza is a Canadian music What are you talking about Canadian pizzas? Oh my god.

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:09  
It's really took on a life of its upset about the pepperoni sure yeah so

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:17  
you know to answer the pineapple is acceptable anything you want to put on a pizza if it suits your taste go for it

Dan Roth  1:12:27  
you know

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:28  
beauty of pizza you can it's a tr x won't be extinct.

Dan Roth  1:12:36  
You've got a very expensive Big Tent take on pizza but there is like the actual like pizza Institute in Naples. I think it's Naples. That like they're very serious about it and like the Margarita pizza is a particular thing was named after the princess I think.

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:53  
And that's okay. They are allowed to be serious about pizza. Yeah. Pizza Institute is Naples is allowed to be serious

Dan Roth  1:13:04  
but like sin some places will do the Hawaiian pizza better than others to be good I've had some bad ones

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:14  
I have to all of them

Dan Roth  1:13:18  
you know if you do it in like the oven like you get a little char on the pineapple you get that my yard reaction going another sugar

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:25  
caramelizes right yeah.

Dan Roth  1:13:27  
normalize that. It's actually pretty good. You know? Like

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:30  
Yeah, it's still not my it's not my jam. I respect people. My my own brother in law, the one that I picked up from JFK an hour ago on our conversation. He absolutely loves pineapple and ham I get it. He also doesn't have a single drop of Italian blood in him. Unlike me. Fully half Italian, right?

Dan Roth  1:13:51  
That's not pizza buddy. Like you. Fine, whatever. bread with vegetables, but that's not

Sam Abuelsamid  1:13:58  
okay, so yes. Last week, we'll get into the whole discussion of Chicago style versus

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:03  
Oh, I don't think there is a discussion there.

Dan Roth  1:14:07  
All right, like Detroit style pizza, which is the thing I didn't know about. And

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:10  
then there's a Greek style in Boston that I became acquainted with, unfortunately, through college.

Dan Roth  1:14:15  
Fortunately, it was actually the Greek families own a lot of the pizza restaurants around at least around here in New England. I don't know if they should

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:24  
stick to next roast beef in Beverly, Massachusetts. That's my go to restaurant

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:28  
in Ann Arbor is a Greek family owns cottage in pizza. Yeah. All right. Robert grace, loves the show listens every week. Thanks for doing it. This is this is more of a comment than a question. I think. The I think the day is past long past that. It's okay for professional car viewers not to have level two chargers at their home or office. The idea that ATVs are less convenient than internal combustion is really wrong. But you can't know that unless you have easy access to it. $500 level two charger. So who would like to comment or respond to that?

Rebecca Lindland  1:15:06  
I understand that I agree. I fully agree with Robert. And if somebody wants to install a level two charger in my home, I would be happy to accept

Dan Roth  1:15:16  
that. I think that's almost like the sort of like those are the tools that you use to do the job. So it's like the carpenter and his.

Rebecca Lindland  1:15:25  
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I would love to have a level two charger and it's something that I have explored. So it's it's, it's, it's, it is. It is something that is on the list of things to do. I the less convenient versus more convenient. It's not to say that they aren't it's not to say that ease are not less convenient. My statement on that is that we have not done a good job as an industry of describing how and why and also you're assuming I think that for multifamily house people that is a whole different argument and and and and Many people have agreed that academics in particular have agreed that we haven't solved that challenge yet I, I do think that we should look at working with municipalities working with builders, working with people to install have a level two charger as part of a new build. You know, as I mentioned, I don't have a generator here at home so I didn't have power. And were I to build a house today. I would certainly pre wire for both a generator and a level two charger. I think that's a really, really good thing. But you know, I guess I don't see going to the gas station for five minutes as a huge inconvenience. And the idea that an Eevee is somehow more convenient. I don't I haven't quite accepted,

Dan Roth  1:16:53  
but I guess it can be if you're only always charging at home and you don't ever consume all the range So I suppose that there is that argument like yeah, I haven't. I haven't electric car, I haven't gone to a gas station in monster years or whatever. I can see

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:08  
that. I can see that too. Yeah, no, that's perfectly legitimate.

Rebecca Lindland  1:17:12  
Right? When when I will tell you though, that when I have had an Eevee, a full Eevee, even, you know, so let's pretend like I do have a level two charger in my garage. It's still a matter of taking that out in the middle of a snowstorm or a huge rainstorm and having to plug it in. That is not as convenient as driving to a gas station underneath a covered parking area. And being able to get gas at a little bit more of my convenience. Frankly, I you know, when I need to get it, as opposed to needing to charge every single night, you know, and again, we're talking about different ranges and things like that. But so I guess you know, I've been in that I've been in that in that situation where I didn't have a choice I had to charge and it was absolutely torrential rain out and it was a mess. And it was not a nice experience having to do that.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:19  
Yeah, I think the you know the real answer here is that you know, there is no silver bullet, you know, for for many customers. You know, an Eevee is far more convenient. You know, if you live in a single family home, you know, and you're parking the car in a garage, right and you've got a level two charger, get out, plug it in, on the house you done in the morning, you unplug it, you drive Do you totally respect that and but there are, you know, said a lot of people that if even if they live in a single family home, if they live in a city, they may have to rely on street parking, where you know, it's not a it's not convenient or you live in a multi unit. home. And for those people, that's why we're seeing things like what we talked about recently with GM and Evie go, trying to, you know, make charging more convenient by putting DC fast chargers, at the places where people are going on a regular basis and they're going to be staying there for at least 20 to 30 minutes at a time, like grocery stores, you know, so that it you know, you you're taking away the friction, you know, because for a lot of people there is still friction and it's there. There is no one solution that works for everyone. You know, and and, you know, to you know, one other thing is that we don't get plugged in vehicles that with that high level of frequency, you know, whenever I do get one I do plug it in, you know, I don't have a level two charger yet. I have been looking at what it would take to put one in. But I you know I haven't gotten around to it because I just don't get plugged in vehicles that free Frequently, but but I do plug it in when I do. And, you know, I also go and use things like level two chargers, public chargers and DC fast chargers, in order to see what the experience is like for consumers that have to rely on those. Because that's, that's also part of the ownership experience for many people is relying on public charging.

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:21  
Yeah, I agree completely. I mean, so, you know, to Robert's point, I, actually having my electrician come out to the house to look at installing a generator. I had one quote that was $15,000 Thank you, but I'm going to pass on that one. And I'm gonna ask him also about level two chargers because I do have a solar system. I know I've got a 220 volt running in my house in my garage rather, and the panel is actually chucked just inside the opening to my garage so it's, it could potentially be quite easy. I have a perfect spot. I think I have a perfect spot for a wall. charger. So, I'm going to ask him about both of those things and installing that. So it'll be really, I'll definitely, of course, update everyone on what I hear about that. You know, so it'll, it's something that you know, again, it's it's an iteration I mean, houses didn't have Wi Fi you know, or didn't have, you know, files and things like that. And so we've got to try though and get as much of that installed as possible at a reasonable cost. And I would certainly encourage anyone if you're building a house like my neighbor is next door and you may or may not hear the hammering of the jacket. But you know, make sure that you've got these things wired, for sound wired for for 220 volt wired for fast charging,

Dan Roth  1:21:44  
yeah, you know. It is a good point though. Like and this is like, a lot of us are freelancers so you can commit to purchasing thing. If you're getting a lot of these Or something like there is that point where it makes sense to to actually purchase the hardware and then as a freelance automotive journalist you can can amortize you can write it off for a bit the same as like there's no way I'm going to buy a really high end camera, but when I need it I'll rent it. It would be great for media loans if there was some way to give us experience with those charges but the car companies aren't gonna install the charger every year for years house like that's not how I

Rebecca Lindland  1:22:30  
actually know somebody who got a high speed charger installed in their home by one of the not a router manufacturer but one of the high speed charger suppliers.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:40  
That's tricky. Love to have to reach out to some of those companies and see if they want to do that for us. Yeah. I'm always down for the let's let's get one more here and before we have to go from Robbie bartholomae and this is a fairly easy one. Robbie asks, I wonder whether the rules requiring vehicles to be at least 25 years old Due to the emissions of those vehicles, in other words, can I import modern VW ID three electric vehicle that has zero emissions? Robbie, the answer to your question is no. I looked up on the Customs and Border Protection website and I'll put the link to the page. in the show notes.

Dan Roth  1:23:17  
cars go through CBP, I guess they do the customs,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:23:20  
well cut the customs. And so the the way the rules are, it's actually 21 years for emissions. So after a car that's more than 21 years old, you don't have to update it to pass emissions requirements, modern emissions requirements. The 25 year threshold is actually for Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. And while an ID three probably could pass things like the crash test requirements, excuse me, it probably could pass the crash test requirements. If you if you crash tested it. It definitely would not pass other requirements like some of the lighting require and various other rules. And so to import that you would have to go through and basically do a one off certification and federalize it to meet current US Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. If you're what you're interested in is something like the ID three, VW will be unveiling the production version of the ID four in the next few weeks. And it will be going on sale here in the US next year, it will actually be built in Chattanooga, and be offered available here. And there's also lots of other options. But no, you won't be able to import an ID three right now. Even even though it has zero emissions.

Rebecca Lindland  1:24:41  
We have a couple of other questions, but let's get to those next time. Yeah, cuz I think there's some good points there.

Dan Roth  1:24:46  
Yep. All right. So keep the questions rolling in. And in the meantime, we'll keep our eyes on all the nonsense. And, yeah, so hit us up and we'll see everybody next time. Thanks for listening. Thanks, ever

Transcribed by https://otter.ai