Sam Abuelsamid  0:03  
Welcome to Episode 163 of wheel bearings. I'm Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights. 

Rebecca Lindland  0:10  
I'm Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. 

Sam Abuelsamid  0:13  
And Dan is off busy doing battle with a server this evening. So he's, he won't be joining us.

Rebecca, you've been driving a bunch of stuff since we last recorded.

Why don't you start off? 

Rebecca Lindland  0:27  
I have been driving it was very exciting, actually. So I went on to media events last week. The first was the 2021 Subaru Crosstrek. This is actually a it's a vehicle that I really have liked. For a long time. I think it's a great size. It kind of falls in that like, compact crossover. I it's still five passenger. And it's, it's, you know, not the roomiest thing. But it's such a great city car, if you want to have that offroad feel. And it's probably going to handle some of those potholes and this many cities better than other vehicles for sure. But this one is it's they consider it fully redesigned. It is on a global platform now. And but it looks familiar, which I like like you're not going to look and say what did they do to the Crosstrek. It's just they just called it up a little bit. The interior is really, really nice. They did a great job on the interior. It also has a new engine, there's two engine options, actually. One is a 2.0 liter with 150 horsepower. The one that I tested was a 2.5 liter 182 horsepower, so 30 more horsepower. The lower engine, the smaller engine comes in a six speed manual. And then the upper engine is an automatic, which is what I tested. Of course all Subarus have all wheel drive to them. And at least in North America, at least in North America. Yes. And this one has 1500 pounds of towing capacity, and 8.7 inches of ground clearance. And years ago, Kaushal. Soon after the vehicle came out actually, I actually wrote about the I looked at the some of the best vehicles in a post Hurricane Sandy world. And the cross track was actually my number one pick, because it got really good fuel economy. And it had really good ground clearance. So it was especially of note, when I looked at that and fuel economy was about combined, you're going to get about 2728 29. It's rated at 29. And I would say I got somewhere pretty close to that driving through, and pretty, pretty aggressive driving actually through the hills of Virginia. So it was lovely to be back on the road. And it was the flight was maybe a third fall, I did have to go to JFK, fly to JFK to Dallas, because they're not doing the Delta shuttle out of LaGuardia anymore. So hopefully that will come back. But Delta did a really, really good job they have, you know, all the middle seats are empty, if you can, and if not, if not, this was a, this is a

two and to set up on a CRJ 900. So, but again, there was 15 people on the flight,

there was 14 and a 14 people on the flight down and 15 people on the flight back. So it was pretty, it was pretty sparse. But back to the car. So overall, I just think you know, the the cross check is just one of those

just comfortable fun, urban vehicles that does a lot of things really well it has really nice athletic refinement, it was quiet on the road, I did have it up to about 50 on some of the gravel, the soft gravel roads. And I slammed on the brakes just to see what would happen nobody else was around was an easy thing to do. And that thing stayed so straight and true. It really made me feel good about you know, being on the road and this thing because there was clearly some really nice torque vectoring going on. And it just it just settled right in like it was like okay, this we want to do, we're gonna stop for you right now. And I love that sort of that that feeling of confidence that it inspired. Of course, there's an absolute ton of accessories that you can get. There's this really thick padding a thick rubber liners that come in with the cargo area, and you can actually get them on the backs of the second row seats. So if you put the whole entire seat down, you have this floor with a heavy rubberized floor basically so that you can put all sorts of gear in carrying big stuff, you can have a protected surface or a big or wet stuff. Okay, so you want to throw a damp Daisy in there. You can you know, which is great and it was you know short money

I mean the the list of accessories, or it was very long, and they're all you know, 100 bucks here 200 there, they're not trying to gouge you. So any any, and you can really personalize it on the Subaru site, when you go to build the Crosstrek, you can really pick and choose those things like dealer installed accessories, or

you can order them yeah, you can order them with the vehicle. And then you can you can add them after as well. So, so something like those those rubberized covers, or is that something that's easily taken out? If you didn't want? Okay? Yes, absolutely, it comes with. So the cargo bay area comes with the rubberized matte, and then the back of the seat maps, that mats, they just kind of click on there. They're like hooked in there. So it's almost like floor mats, you know, you can just you can interchange them very easily. So the one so the base on this is 23 to 95. And that includes $1,000 of destination. And then as tested, mine came in at just over 29,000 and and that includes destination. So you know, I did the limited, which is the top of the line, they also had the sport there, which I think is a little bit less expensive. Sorry, I would just get some water. That I mean that that 23,000 and change price, you know, for the base price, you know, for a car that's standard with all wheel drive is actually pretty reasonable, that's, you think it'd be hard pressed to find another all wheel drive vehicle for much less than that. Absolutely. And, you know, we talk a lot about pricing on I think that we're all, you know, pretty practical and frugal in many ways about how to be a well we try you know, there's an occasional, we're not gonna we're not gonna turn our noses up at anything.

But I think that, you know, when I look at what you're getting for $29,000 I think that's just it's fantastic. It really is and I should correct myself I actually got 26 miles per gallon and aggressive driving is what I wrote and combined. Standard standard Rebecca driving, extended Rebecca driving Exactly.

But you know, I just obviously Subaru has, you know, a great hot legacy kidding. But you know, they have a great history of, of, you know, animal welfare and environmental awareness, they do have a vegan option. So they have leather seats, and then they also have a vegan option that actually is free of chlorine of PVC of, you know, obviously animal products and such. So, which is a nice touch, like that's something that you know, is important to, particularly to a Subaru buyer. And so they acknowledge that they celebrate that and and they do offer a beacon option. And the reference Daisy, who you mentioned earlier, you know, she probably wears her Subaru dogtag that I got that for at the Chicago Auto Show. Every day. Yes, on her car. So

that's awesome. I love it. Yeah, so yeah, so I think that, you know, if you're in that market for that compact crossover, I mean, this is really, you know, I feel like this Supercross track is really the perfect, either college car, if you can afford it, or post college car. Because you're still going to be hauling stuff around. If you're like most college kids, you're still gonna be hauling stuff around, you're gonna be throwing stuff in there, your friends are going to be moving, you're going to be moving, you know, it's that it's that kind of just really good where you've got the utility that you need, but you don't feel like you're hauling around a bunch of car that you don't need, when if it's just you driving. So I just I'm serious, the modern equivalent of what I had in college, you know, and when I was in college, I drove an 84 GMC s 15 pickup back when compact pickups were actually you know, compact and they were dirt cheap. You know, and, you know, today if you want to, you know, anything close to that, you know, the closest you're gonna get is gonna cost you you know, 30 grand or more, you know, oftentimes upwards of 40 grand for you know for a smaller pickup and so yeah, you're right you know, something like this is the perfect kind of vehicle for you know, a college student or a recent grad. You know, where you are moving around you've got or you know, anybody else that you know, needs to needs to haul stuff around. You know, I think it's got a decent amount of cargo space in there. Yeah, beats down right? It does. Absolutely. I mean, I think it's a great empty nester vehicle. Also, one of the things I love about it for that flexible lifestyle that people have, you know, after when you know, like you and your wife like you know, some but sometimes kids come home or you need to do stuff like it's just there's there's just the right amount of cargo that you need. You're not going to be moving an entire apartment in this thing, but you are going to help a friend out with it. And again, what I love is that it's the the cargo and the flexibility is there but you

Don't feel like you're hauling around too much as when it's not

big enough to take a couple of pieces of IKEA furniture. Yes, exactly. It does come with eye sight to that with the Subaru is that standard. So a lower trim a lower version, like a base version is standard. And then you have to, you have to bump up to the, to get the full complement of safety features, which is unfortunate, because, you know, we always like it when they try and include as much in in the standard package as possible. Well, it looks like it looks like eyesight, at least the basic version of eyesight. That standard does include adaptive cruise control, and Lane centering. It does and that's new for them. Yes, yeah. Cuz that was previously an extra cost option. So now you get it on everyone. Yes, you do. And I always like to see. And I apologize. I knew this last week when I was when I was working on my review, because I always like to see whether it has the blind spot monitoring or rear cross traffic alert. And those are some of the things that you have to that you have to upgrade to so so I say so Driver Assist technology, it's standard on the sport and limited, which is actually all they had us drive. And then the lower trim levels, the base and the premium. It's optional on their blind spot detection and rear cross traffic alert is optional on premium and sport, but standard unlimited. The limited that I drove really had had everything in terms of options that you could get. But you know, overall, though, they've got a lot of safety features. And obviously your daytime running lights, they've got the rear vision camera on there. And but you do have to, you know, again, I would love to see, like blind spot monitoring included in that. But yeah, at least it's it's an option. Yeah, at least Yeah. It's good that it's available. But yeah, I agree it should. That's one that should be part of the standard package for everybody. And, you know, for those not familiar with eyesight, I think I can remember we've talked about it before. But you know, this is a little bit different from a lot of the adaptive cruise control systems, most ACC uses a radar sensor. And then you also typically have a camera as well for the Lane Keeping Assist.

Sam Abuelsamid  12:32  
And the radar sensors used to measure the distance to the car ahead of you. eye sight is a stereo vision camera. So two cameras. And they're using the parallax between the two cameras to try to get that depth perception. Yeah, and

Rebecca Lindland  12:48  
I've found that it generally works pretty well surprisingly well. But you know, it's, you know, obviously, like any camera system, it's going to have limitations in bad weather or you know, fog, when you probably shouldn't be using a cruise control anyway, anyway. And I will say that one of the things so the two cameras that you reference there on either side of the rearview mirror, and that makes the casement for the rear view mirror very large in that windscreen. So I when I first got set up, I noticed that the front a pillar was quite narrow, which actually it turns out that there's high strength steel in there. So that was cool because they they did that they were very conscious of the fact that that pillar needed to be narrow. And that in that impedes my visibility because I sit so close to the car. But then out of my right eye, the corner my right eye, I was like what am I seeing? Well, this is so weird. And then I realized that it was one of the eyesight casements. So it was something that once is kind of like once I knew it, it disappeared. But it was definitely distracting at times. And again, I think it's more just because I set up close, that I was very conscious of it. And after a while it didn't bother me. But, but it is important to know that you know that you do have to kind of look at that it's a larger package, it's a larger package. So cars because, you know, most cars do have a single camera. And that package is usually you know, above and in front of the mirror. So the mirror, you know is between you and that package with the camera in it, right it doesn't extend out beyond the sides of the mirror. So so it's it's it's in an area where it's not generally going to impede your vision anyway because the mirror set but because those cameras need to be farther apart to to in order to do that depth measurement. That package is inherently larger with the iSight system that it is. So that right and that makes sense. So they do have to have a certain a certain

width apart. Yeah, as you say it to get that. Okay. Yeah, so that was the only and again, it would it's in, it's in no way shape or form a reason not to purchase this vehicle. You know, it just, again, it's you know, I always like to talk about things that I just notice when I'm driving and it was it was kind of just something that I thought what is that, but overall, I was really, really happy with this vehicle, it was just, you know, it was just such a good solid car. And again, for that price point for under 30 grand to get a fully loaded because that was the limited. You know, that's just, I mean, that's just serious. This sport track is 26 495 the limited is 27 995. So, you know, you're still, I mean, you just to get into that range. I think it's just a fantastic vehicle to get that all wheel drive to get those, you know, a good Subaru boxer engine out of it to get decent fuel economy, you know, and those safety features. It's just there's there's a lot they packed a lot into that vehicle. Yeah, all they got to do stuff with wr x engine in it.

Sam Abuelsamid  16:09  
Or an STI engine.

Rebecca Lindland  16:11  
You know, it was surprising though it was it had it had enough pap I would have obviously loved to have had a manual, but but they did a good job with it though. Yeah, you know, 195 100 185 horsepower, whatever it is, you know, is plenty for almost everything. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. So what did you have after that? When you got back. So after that, I, I actually drove another offroad vehicle, I got the chance to drive the brand new Land Rover Defender, and I'm not gonna lie I like I kind of jumped up and down and down in excitement when they invited me.

And I was, I will be the first to admit I was a last minute ad. And ironically, the reason that they had a spot was because one of our friends, Brian, I couldn't go and the reason he couldn't go was because he lives in Maryland, and the state of Maryland, is on the quarantine list. So you got a warranty.

Right? But I actually saw him at the Subaru event, which is how we did this math. And at first I was like, wait a minute, he infected you. And then you infected everybody else. But fortunately, I was I came back early from Virginia because I was done. And I was like why not just come back early, which is a good thing because you if you're in a state less than 24 hours, you don't have to quarantine. So I was in Virginia for 23 hours.

So onto the defender. So the Landrover defender, it's back in the States, I think it left in 1997. It was actually only sold in the states for a few years. So they're very rare and they're incredibly collectible. And they go for outrageous sums of money for these really stripped down vehicles. But so the new defenders back they started production back in January, got interrupted by COVID. They were able to deliver vehicles in June. And now they've there's about 2000 of them on the road. But the media is just getting a chance to drive them because everything's been on hold. So we we were driving the 2020, Land Rover Defender 110 there are six different trim lines in the 2020s. There's actually seven in 2021. But this the SC I had was kind of in that middle trim line, which is actually really what I prefer anyway, I like that I've always kind of bought in that range. So the base price is actually 49 nine for the base defender. The version that I had was 71,000 and had about $9,000 worth of accoutrements on it mostly related to the extensive off road that we ended up doing with it.

And the defender when you look at it, it's it's pretty square, frankly, I reckon as it should be. It does harken back very much to the design the front of it. You know, we talked a lot about the bronco really looking so much like the bronco the front of the defender kind of looks like it is sort of echoes that a little bit. Certainly the the silhouette is more representative of traditional defender but you could you still know what this thing is when it's on the road. So I knocked I had so much fun.

I was hard at work, believe me. It was very hard work. I we took this so we drove up to picked up in Jersey drove up to the Landrover experience center.

up in Manchester, Vermont. So at first, when I saw we were going to Vermont, like, You gotta be kidding me. But it's actually just about three hour drive. So we were it was interesting because we were initially just on the highway with the thing. And then you know, which, which was a good experience because you think of these vehicles as just being off road, but it was actually incredibly well behaved on the highway, even though it has this appearance of being very high. It has three ride heights that you can adjust manually, or you know, with a button, so I put it in access mode. And and that let me get in easily enough. And then there's like the normal travel mode. And then when you're offered, you can raise it up another few actually goes, I think it's as high as five inches from the access mode. So you definitely can tell the difference. But on the highway. It just it didn't ride tall. You know, I mean, like, you know, Zephyr springs.

You asked me these engineering questions, I don't know. Okay, maybe like it dies. Okay. Go ahead, continue. I'll look it up while you talk. Okay, I believe it does. I know it has different variety of differentials, the rear differential, a center, diff, and then the front. It doesn't have a front diff. I believe it's good. It's got an optional electric air suspension. So yeah, that's what that's what allows you to have the varying ride heights. Okay, so to get coils or air springs, so mine probably had it. And I apologize for the shuffling paper while I grab the I thought I had my Mulroney here

that they gave me, I don't Um, so yeah, so once on the road, then it was really quiet. And this has got, you know, big fat tires on it and stuff like it, it shouldn't have been as good on the highway, as it was, but they did a really nice job with it. So we drove it up there about a couple of hours. And, and one of the things I noticed the seats were incredibly comfortable, they have this really nice surrounding bolster, kind of feel to them. And I had the 14 way I heated and cooled seats. And you could get exactly you could serve 14 way heated and cooled. So it was like 14 different settings or no 14 way, a 14 way adjustment, and they're

heated and cooled, sorry,

14 way and heated and cooled. Okay, and so I so I was able to, you know, get it exactly how I wanted it to. And the cool thing was that the way that you instead of having extra buttons for like the climate of your seat, they actually you can actually access it through the dial that you set your temperature. So you set your h back temperature, and then you press it again. And that becomes your heated and cooled set settings as well, which was really clever, like it's a nice use of, of a dial. So it's multifunctional dials, that that actually then when you're offroad they do other things as well. So the inside is very clean. And these dials have multiple uses, which is really cool to take advantage of the technology that they certainly didn't have. The last time this vehicle was was anywhere around. Yeah. Well, the lat the last defender was designed, you know, in the wake of World War Two, yeah, it was basically unchanged for you know, 60 years until it finally went out of production. Exactly. This is this is all new. It's better. Yeah. And the thing, you know, the thing I like is it's not, it's not in any way, a retro design, you know, I mean, in terms of its the basic profile, it's obviously, you know, very reminiscent of, you know, the classic defender, but there's, you look at this thing, it's thoroughly modern, there's nothing retro about it. No, no, I mean, it's, it's it is it's a very, very modern interpretation. But it's recognizable also, and actually for 2021. And it's kind of it's funny, because we're sort of in this weird time warp because they're like, you can't even build 2020s anymore. And yet, that's all that we had available to drive. So on the website, it's all 2020 ones, because that's what ordinarily would be coming out now. And but we're just getting a chance to dry it. So we're, we're like six months behind everything. So on the 2021 on the bass, though, the 110 defender, they actually have an option for steel wheel steel rims, like really stripped out right, which is awesome. So they kind of they had this almost they didn't mean it but it almost ended up being a soft launch for the 2020s. And now the 2020 ones are really

really going to have some cool stuff, they're coming out with a cloth roof and there's talk of doing some really special things with this iconic vehicle, you know, there's, they gave us a book about it that's like almost two inches thick, you know, and it just filled with, with, you know, just the history of this vehicle. So but can you take the doors off

so

you cannot take the doors off and you can't take the roof off, but that doesn't mean that you won't be able to at some point in time. Oh, okay. So they've seen Wrangler and seen Bronco and decided okay, maybe we need removable doors, I think at some point, we may see this really being able to be a stripped down as you want it to be. They, they, as I said that on the base one, they're going to have the steel rims, but then they also have this defender x, which is has all the same offroad capabilities, which we still have to get into but is very luxurious inside. So they've the one that I had that se was a nice balance of

leather and cloth interior, you know all the all the features that you could want. And you know, but durable but more durable. It had you know more hard plastics than you would normally expect from Range Rover from Landrover, but that's because it's supposed to be a more athletic outdoors, more rubbery and more rugged lifestyle. Exactly. So so we got we got up to what they call the Ellery LR e the letter of experience center and and I should clarify, those are open. So there's only three in the US which 1am in in Vermont, there's one in Palm Springs, and then there's one

oh just went over my head is my catwalks and I and these things, they, anybody can go to them, they have vehicles that you can use there, you don't need to be a Landrover owner. So if you just want to get better at going off road, they have the most incredible instructors that were so good. They were they were positive and constructive. And just they were absolutely fantastic. So I actually want to try and go at some point on my own. Because you can learn so much about going off road, you know, I mean, it's just, it's amazing. And so that was that was just a really, really cool experience to have. There's one there's a North Carolina, of course, Carmel is the one in California. Yes, there's one in Carmel, one in California, Vermont, and in North Carolina. So those who live north of the border, there's also one in Quebec, oh, Montebello, Quebec. Oh, nice, perfect guy. And again, the idea that you can go and you don't have to be a Landrover owner was really, really cool. And that was, I thought, that was great information, if you want to learn how to do off road if you want to learn, you know, from really, really experienced people. So we, we have a feel if we turned up with a new Bronco.

They would probably be all over it. They were probably over

Sam Abuelsamid  28:16  
five hours with it first.

Rebecca Lindland  28:19  
Exactly. No, I think they'd be all over that. So you know, so this, it has, as you mentioned, the the electronic air suspension, and these adaptive dynamics, Terrain Response, Hill launch, low traction launch all these all day, any kind of off road sophisticated, off road capability that you need. That's on the base model, like that's how they all come, which I think is just amazing. And again, the way that you access it is is through these dials, and it all comes up on the screen. And what was first your infotainment system suddenly becomes your offroad hub. And it's got three different cameras for the outside so you can see exactly where your vehicle is, you've got different you can do the selection right there. And then there's auto, which is actually primarily the only thing that we left it in, we did change it one time we were going up a really steep hill, that was I should have asked the grade on it. It was pretty aggressive. And we put it in climbing mode, and it climbed up the hill for us, which was really nice. And then you take over and then you we went up we turned around and we went back down the other side of the hill in hill descent control, which I will be the first one to admit I have a really hard time giving up control. But basically all you have to do is steer you don't touch the brakes. You don't touch the accelerator. But the reality is that that vehicle is going to drive that hill better than I can. And so by giving up control I was actually safer.

It was kind of a bummer. And it scared me but

but it was good. It was a great experience. So we went, you know, there wasn't a lot of water. Unfortunately, we've had a pretty dry summer here. So we couldn't do the full on water, water fording that the vehicle can do. But you know, overall, it's just, it's, it's such a fun vehicle to take in that really authentic, off road manner. And then to turn around and have it so well behaved on road. I mean, we drove. So we ended up having a COVID issue where we couldn't stay overnight in Vermont. So we had to drive an extra almost 50 minutes at the end of the day, and then turn around and drive back again. So all told, I think we I put about 500 miles on that car in the course of two days. Did you then drive back to New York, then? Well, yes, so so I drove from from the headquarters of Jersey, up to Manchester, Vermont, over to Saratoga Springs, New York, back to the LA in Vermont, then down to this town called Kawasaki, I think it is to this amazing, fabulous semi kind of camping hotel where we each had our own little cabin, and in upstate New York, and then we had about a two and a half hour drive to the headquarters. But I actually stopped at home, which was super fun to bring my media car home, showed my showed my family got a chance to show my mom and my sisters, my brother in law, my niece and show them how the car goes up and down automatically. That was a lot of fun. So then, and then I drove to our New Jersey, which is about an hour from where I live. And then I had to drive back home an hour.

So it was a lot of driving. That was from early Thursday morning until Saturday afternoon ish. But I've had to tell you, it was incredibly comfortable for a vehicle that is so good off road for it to be so well behaved on road. That was really, really impressive. It was yes, you know, that. That's, that's an amazing thing, you know, that we've seen over the last 15 or 20 years, really, more in the last 10 years, I guess, is you know, as they, as these things have matured, you know, you know what, you no longer have to sacrifice, you know, having offroad incredible offroad capability does not mean that you're going to be bouncing around, you know, when you're driving on public, you know, on paved roads, you know, it's great that you can have a vehicle that can do it. All right, exactly. I mean, it was amazing. And, and with just just the touch of a button or the turn of a dial. You know, that's what's incredible is that the electronics that are available today are just absolutely phenomenal. And I you know, I'm probably leaving out so much of what this vehicle can do. But, you know, we were we were climbing up rocks. We were We were driving through mud, we didn't have any snow unfortunately but it could certainly handle that next week they're having a group of journalists out in that Carmel Valley area in the sand dunes, you know, it's just it was incredibly capable there was you know, there's some of the vehicles were equipped with a with a winch that you could put on it which they needed to use and other groups fortunately, nobody in our group got into that much trouble but you know, you can just do a lot with these things. I think they each tow 7500 pounds,

which is you know, enough for your recreational vehicle or something like that. And, you know, at the same time got about so overall got about 17 miles per gallon, but that includes all the off roading. So, I would say on road, I probably was got in the 20s for highway driving. And by the way, this thing is the hast

I'm gonna assume that you know, the ones you drove were the mild hybrid, not the the base version. Yes, yes, I was just getting into that. So there's two engine types. There's a 2.0 liter inline for 300 horsepower. And there's a 3.0 liter inline six that mild hybrid 400 horsepower, eight speed automatic. It did have a pretty transparent stop start. I that was very, very good. I you know, just immediate power. I mean, it was you could just you could get this thing up there should you need to. I it was it was really cool. It was a really, really nice vehicle. I mean after even after all that driving, I didn't want to let it go.

I'm not gonna lie. I don't want to let it go. I could have kept that one.

Um, so what did you drive back from jlr headquarters. So that's my next week's car. Okay. But I am currently driving the Honda Civic Type R with the six speed manual transmission. And it's just it's it's cartoon on wheels. It's so much fun. It's a riot. My only goal this week is to not get a speeding ticket, because the last time that I had a Honda Civic, I did get pulled over. I didn't get a ticket. But I think I probably would this time.

Sam Abuelsamid  35:41  
The last ticket I got was in a tight bar. I was on the media drive in Washington State. Oh, no. Yeah. But we can discuss that another time.

All right. Yeah. So landrovers back at it's awesome. Any Anything else? You want to talk about driving? Oh, my gosh, I, this is like the Rebecca pod. I can, I can certainly understand why you would want to forget the other one.

Rebecca Lindland  36:10  
So I actually saw that third vehicle, the vehicle that I actually drove to meet up with the Land Rover people in New Jersey was a Toyota Avalon hybrid. And this was a really, really good vehicle. And what what was probably one of the more remarkable things about this was how many people stopped me to talk about the way that it looks, because it's a really sharp looking vehicle. And this is in Greenwich, like where everybody sees everything. I mean, I was, I was at the main Greenwich post office. And somebody came over and said, I got to look at this thing. What is this? And I said, it's the Toyota Avalon is like, are you kidding me.

But they've just done a really sharp job with this Avalon. And it's a hybrid, it's absolutely terrific. I mean, I just, I really, really enjoyed it, it gets 43 miles per gallon, that's what I got a huge I love the fact that I just kept forgetting that it was a hybrid, because it's just that good. Like, it's just it's an you know, I've always about the idea of if you're going to give me an alternative power train, don't I don't want it to be weird. And I don't want it to be something that is a compromise on the whole driving experience. And they just did a great job with this, you know, I I drove down to New Jersey with a lot of traffic. And it just it the responsiveness was there when I needed it. And then the adaptive cruise control was very good with it. It just overall, it was just it was really good. So so I was really, really happy with it. I'm glad that they made it in a hybrid. And I'm glad that it's not. It's not something that you have to compromise about at all. This is this is the same hybrid setup that is now in a whole bunch of Toyota vehicles. The rav4. The Camry, the Highlander, you name it.

Sam Abuelsamid  38:10  
I don't think it's in the Prius though, is it? No. Well, the hybrid part, the electric part is the same, although I think with a little bit less electric power than what's on here. Yeah. And the Prius has a 1.8 liter engine. So these, these all have 2.5 to two, five with all the all the other application. Yeah, so it also it had the

Rebecca Lindland  38:31  
it had the ecvt. And, and I should have mentioned this about the Crosstrek. Also, that CVT was one of the best that I had driven, there was absolutely no wine to it, it was really, really good. This ecvt is also very, very good. It was really minimal wine to it. And it just got me 43 miles per gallon without feeling like you're getting 43 months. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, without feel it's got your car. It's got it's got decent performance, you know? Yeah, not. It's not an exciting power train. You know, it certainly doesn't sound great. You know, you know, it's got the classic Toyota hybrid, you know, engine revs up, you know, you stand on an engine revs up to 30 504,000 rpm and stays there while you accelerate, you know, but aside from that, you know, it's fine. It's not a race car right now. I'm thinking back to my experience. This is not the Toyota the one lemans last weekend.

And I'm thinking back to my experience with the Prius just a couple months ago, where that was just I felt like I was always compromising in that vehicle for the sake of fuel economy. And that's not the feeling that I had with the Toyota Avalon hybrid, is that I felt like that hybrid was a bonus as opposed to something that I had to tolerate. I wonder how much of the attention had gotten Greenwich is because of this massive grill that it has

Sam Abuelsamid  40:00  
I mean, certainly that was part of it. looking car, it's a sharp, you know, it's a nice sleek four door sedan, big four door sedan, it does have a monstrous grille.

Rebecca Lindland  40:12  
And the one I had was like a deep ruby red with all blackout. So, you know, it was it was it's a head turner for sure. And, you know, which is kind of fun then to have, again, a vehicle that has such good fuel economy without having to sacrifice style and design and, and, and, and really, you know, on many levels performance, you know, inside the interior is really well laid out. I hate that end to end system. We've gone over that before, I was able to use Android Auto though, so that was fine. And, you know, just overall, I think it was just a really good experience if you need if you if you want to sit down with a good amount of room to it, and you want good fuel economy 43 miles per gallon, I think this is a really good choice. So the one that I drove came in at just over 42,000 and it actually retails for I mean, the base is about 39 and change for it. So you know a lot of safety features on it. And just I was just I was really pleased with it. I think it was a really good vehicle. I enjoyed it. I had a good week. All right. So I had a couple of cars that are quite different. First up, Cadillac CT four V and I still keep wanting to say a tsp every time I think about it, because you know it actually still It looks a lot like the ATMs. Did you know this is this is the replacement in the lineup for the ATMs. You know the front is route you know changed quite a bit but you know the rest of the shape of the car it doesn't have that that fastback shape that the CT five does, you know, it retained you know, closer to a classic sedan shape that the the old 80 s hat

Sam Abuelsamid  41:59  
and you know, as we've talked about previously earlier this year, I think you know, when they first announced the CT five V and a CT for Wii U, the Wii models now are not what the previous generation V's were, those are coming up still with the blackwing additions ah v now is you know, more like what you know with BMW what an M Sport is okay, okay, so you you kind of get the look some of the look of what was a V but you don't get all of the performance all the personality Yeah, and especially the personality.

So, let me start with the base CT for I like it you know, I like the size of the car for me, you know, a compact sedan you know, is a good size you know that you know this is comparable to a three series or you know, an Audi a4 you know, so I personally like the size better than I like the size of the CT five right um, granted that you know, the back seat is tighter. Yeah, you're not going to have as much leg room in the back of this one as you do in the CT five the CT CT you have a CT he doesn't need a lot of labor That's true. That is very true.

You know, the CT five you know has a much much more ample back seat you know for caring adults the CT for you know is more you know, kids and occasional you know for adults for shorter chips you know, not not that it's tiny but it's definitely tighter than the CT five

You know, a lot of the rest of the interior very similar to other contemporary Cadillacs like the Z six and the CT five, same basic infotainment system you get the the center dial as well. You know, same same steering wheel. Same issues that we talked about before the Z six and the CT five with the volume and forward and back buttons on the right hand spoken the steering wheel being in the opposite positions of where they probably should be.

Yeah, what distinguishes the CT four v from other CT fours, you know, other CT fours have the two liter turbo that you find in a lot of GM vehicles. Find engine, the CT five, or a CT four v.

Just naming it's just

the CT four v has the same 2.7 liter turbo four cylinder that debuted last year in the Silverado.

So this one has 325 horsepower 380 foot pounds of torque, and it's made it up with gm 10 speed automatic you know, surprisingly for you know, what is a pretty large displacement for solder. 2.7 is a pretty big four banger. Yeah, it's very smooth. You know, no issues at all with vibration. This was not a shaker for you.

This is not like the old days, you know, for, for those of us of a certain age who may have driven the classic GM quad, four back in the late 80s or early 90s, you know, that was an engine that like to vibrate, especially the first generation before they added balance shafts to it. And that was only 2.3 salt, 2.3 liters. This is a 2.7. So it's a, it's a big engine, those are some big pistons moving around in that thing. But it doesn't, it doesn't vibrate, it's very smooth, no issue at all there. It does have a bit of a growl to it. You know, growl

it's not a bad girl. But, you know, the feeling I got driving this thing, you know, and especially, you know, for something that, you know, from what I've become accustomed to over the last decade and a half with V series Cadillacs. You know, especially going back to the CTSV, you know, the couple of generations ago when they first put the LSA supercharged V eight in there. But even even the atsb with that twin turbo V six, it was in there to 404 and 40 horsepower. Yeah, those cars were, you know, they were exciting to drive. They were a lot of fun to drive. This one.

It's fine. Oh, my gosh. You know, it is what they were going for it? You know, it? It did not? It didn't excite me. You know, I don't know what it was it just didn't excite me,

Unknown Speaker  46:30  
you know,

Sam Abuelsamid  46:32  
handling thing, or was it just all the handling? The handling was good. You know, the ride quality was good. You know, it was responsive. It was quick enough. But there was just something about it that felt, blah, you know, it Wow. And, you know, it's a bummer. You know, I think I would have rather had a regular CT for where I didn't have those expectations that come with that V batch. Right. Because I think I think I actually would have been happier with that one. You know, this one, you know, very quiet. You know, it didn't have, you know, some of the NVH issues that I've complained about on some other recent Cadillacs.

You know,

stiff non suspension was good, you know, as a nice, nice balance of, you know, good control, but enough compliance, you know, over rough pavement that, you know, it was not annoying to drive. Right? It was, it was just really, really okay.

Rebecca Lindland  47:32  
It was exceptionally okay in saying, oh, gosh, Mom, I don't know, he was he was really nice.

Sam Abuelsamid  47:42  
I like the way it looks. You know, I like the way it feels around me. You know, I like the size of it, and the packaging. But I think, you know, if if I'm going to get something with a V badge on it, I just want something that little bit extra that visceral, there's nothing visceral about this car, right? It means to have some kind of an emotional response that like, makes that that that elicit some kind of emotional response from you. And this, this one just didn't.

Unknown Speaker  48:13  
Yeah, so now it's interesting because we we've all driven those kinds of cars, where we're like, we're supposed to love this thing, you know, or at least it's a bit like it's built for performance, or it's built for something. And it's always disappointing when the car does not slot in there. Do you think that they're saving some for that black wing? Oh, I'm sure they are, you know, the black wing is probably going to have that twin turbo V six again. You know, and that should be coming sometime. Early 2021, I think. But this engine, I mean, good grief, it needs premium gasoline, like it should be good. Yeah, well, no, I mean, it's got it's got, you know, decent performance, you know, 325 horsepower. 308 is a response, but it just does it in a way that it doesn't elicit a visceral it just, it's so smooth. Well, that's.

Rebecca Lindland  49:07  
Yeah, exactly. That's the thing is that is that you want to have some kind of an emotional attachment to this. Like, I don't mind if the suspension is a little bit tight, you know, like, like, like with the crazy tight bar that I'm going to talk about next week. You know, what, when I pick that thing up, I you know, as I said, I had just driven over 500 miles, I was exhausted. And the last thing I really wanted to do was drive in, you know, a manual transmission, supers use high strung vehicle. But you know, after a little while, I threw it into comfort, and it was totally fine. And it was actually really and and that's the last time we spent in copper. But, but you want to have that, you know, so fun to read that engine up. It's so fun to drive it and to zip around in it and that's what even though this

Sam Abuelsamid  50:00  
is a stately is lovely rear wheel drive sedan. It's still nice to have that. That response, you still want to have some kind of an emotional response to it. Yeah. You know, and, you know, I think in a way stately almost is, you know, the thing to say about that power train. You know, like I said, it's got a little bit of a growl too, but not in a way that really excites you. It doesn't it's not annoying, but it's not exciting.

I'd rather have it a little almost annoying, right? Yeah, at least annoying elicits a response. Yeah. No, and and this one, just, it just didn't do anything for me. For some reason. I don't know why. Which is, which is really a shame. But you know, the the CT for V starts at 44 495.

The total price on the one I had was 52,000, including 995 delivery charge, you know, it had the full suite of

Driver Assist stuff, adaptive cruise blind spot. You know, it had really nice interior, the sangria leather with jet black accents.

And what else heated and cooled seats, massaging passenger seat, front front cast front massaging front seats, although they don't have all the modes that this week's car has. But we'll get to that next time.

And, you know, heated wheel heads up display, you know, so yeah, a lot had all the all the good stuff on it. Right. And, you know, I think I think though, you know, I would I would either take the the standard CT four with the two liter, or, you know, wait for the blackwing. Yeah, because this one is just kind of miss. Well, and there's a big gap between the sport and the V series. I mean, it's, it's almost 40,000 to $45,000. Yeah. So, you know, you're definitely paying for it. And

Unknown Speaker  52:03  
it looks like on the premium one, you can get the 2.7 liter engine also over 40,000. This is an option on there. Yeah, on the premium a, so you can actually get that same engine without the premium. Okay, the price premium, I should say. Yeah, I probably wouldn't, wouldn't recommend it. I think, you know, the two leaders are really good engine, I would probably stick with that. It's not worth

Sam Abuelsamid  52:29  
the extra for for the two seven. But so anyway, that's that's the CT four v series.

And then the from that, you know, I swapped that for a Hyundai ionic, hybrid. Limited. Very interesting. Yeah. So the, you know, the ionic has been with us for a few years, got to refresh this year, new front, facia upgraded interior,

you know, especially, you know, bigger, bigger central touchscreen, and, you know, redesigned screen, you know, area around the screen, you know, feels a little more premium than before, still not, you know, hugely premium, but you know, nice.

And, you know, the ionic, you know, shares this platform with the Kia Niro.

And, you know, it's a platform that was designed to be electrified, across the board. So all the, all the variants of the ionic and the Nero are electrified, the base setup is hybrid. And the ionic hybrid is really

a direct competitor to the Prius, you didn't have to plug in version. Not this time, I have had a plug in before, which has 27 miles of electric range, that's a plug in hybrid, and there's also a battery electric way as part of the upgrades this year got a little bigger battery is now up to 170 miles of range. Oh, wow. You know, and that's, you know, that's a battery electric, you know, that starts at $30,000 before the tax breaks. So, you know, you can you can get that down in the low $20,000 you know, 2323 $24,000 range as a full battery electric which is a really good option. And 170 miles is enough for most you know, the vast majority of people further their their driving. Yeah, no, definitely cover any number of days. So, am I thinking of the wrong one that there was a limited availability, the the plugins, the plug in hybrid and the battery electric are only available in Zev states. So California and the other states that that require zero emission vehicles. Okay. But the the hybrid is available nationally. Okay. All right. I've only seen a couple on the road, though. They're just not very popular. Yeah, the ionic has sold is availability issue. No, I think it just hasn't been as popular as the Nero. Nero sells about two and a half to three times the volume of the ionic, well, mechanically it's the same vehicle, same wheel base, all the same components, but

The, you know, the Nero, you know, is sort of a talaash, hatch crossover II kind of thing. Yeah. Whereas this, you know, is very clearly a five door, hat, you know, sleep, you know, fastback hatchback, you know very much in the Prius mold, but without the weird.

And so, you know, it's, it's an, I think it's an attractive car, but it's, it's a body style and a form factor that the market has just gotten away from in the last five years. Yeah. So, you know, and I think that's probably why Hyundai is decided to move the ionic name to its new line of battery electric vehicles, you know, in a couple of years time. So that's going to be their, their battery electric sub brand.

And, you know, this one's, this one's going to go away. But, you know, in the meantime, you know, if you're looking for something that is, you know, roomy

and reasonably fun to drive, you know, it actually handles quite well surprisingly well. And, you know, nicely equipped, and really, really fuel efficient, like this thing is EPA rated at 55 miles per gallon. Wow, I got you know, and that's combined, so 5555 City 54 Highway 55 combined. I averaged about 49. Okay, which is more than acceptable, all right, but you weren't hypermiling or anything miling I was just driving driving it normally drive anything else.

And, you know, it's got a lot of equipment. You know, a lot of drivers this stuff is standard equipment on the ionic as it is on most new Hyundai's now, it's got a 10 and a quarter inch

center touchscreen, with built in nav wireless charging, you know, for that, that's for the 30

so the price 32,003 10 This is the limited so this, this is loaded, this has all the available options. There's there's no there's no options available on the limited everything is standard equipment. You know, you get three years of Hyundai blue link. You know, Harman Kardon premium audio you know, the the powertrain to 1.6 liter four cylinder mated with the Hyundai hybrid system, which you know, is using their their six speed dual clutch transmission and the motor in between the engine and the transmission.

I mean, it looks great. Yeah, it's a good looking car, it does sort of look a little bit like the Prius, it's not as weird as you say, I got a similar profile to the re it does from the side, it looks a little bit more Prius like, and I will definitely want to drive this because it seems very, very competitive to the Prius, but it seems like you had a better experience where I felt like they Prius was just a constant compromise. That doesn't sound like your experience. There's no no real compromise in this, you know, the the powertrain, you know, is, you know, very seamless, you know, and because, you know, today's hybrid system, rather than using a CVT, they use a conventional step gear transmission, in this case, a DCT. And some of the other hybrids, they use a conventional now an eight speed automatic or seven speed in a in a Sonata Hybrid. But yet, it feels much more natural, and very seamless. You know, you've got Android Auto and CarPlay. The Hyundai infotainment system. I mean, we've talked about it before, it's you know, it's a nice, it's a very easy to use system. So it is interface. And one thing that Hyundai always does really well, is the displays they use for their touchscreens, you know, always really good, you know, very high contrast bright, you know, no glare, you know, and you can see them with polarized sunglasses. Yeah, unlike a lot of the Toyota and Nissan displays. It's a really, I mean, it's the interior. I'm looking at a picture of the interior now. And it looks really nice. Yeah. And again, no, that's and that fuel economy. That's insane. Yeah, it's, it's pretty impressive. So yeah, no, definitely. I would love to try one. If you're looking for something very reasonably priced, like I said, starting at about 20 little over $23,000 for the the base, you know, the ionic blue.

You know, and yeah, 23,200 is the the base price, you know, and even that's got a lot of features on it. And then you know, fully loaded 32 grand. Yeah, that's awesome. And then does it qualify for any tax credits? Not the hybrid, the plug in hybrid and the battery electric version? Do

our state check with your state? Because they're not? Yeah, so So. Yeah, so it's the qualifies for the federal 70 $500 tax credit on the the plugin versions or for the battery electric. The plug in hybrid, I think is 35 3500. About 3500. Yeah. And then the, you know, California and New Jersey and a few other states have their own incentives as well. Right.

Cool. So definitely, definitely something worth taking a look at. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

All right. So in the news this week?

Let's see, where shall we start?

Let's start with selling TVs in Michigan. Yes, before we talk about a new Eevee.

So, you know, and there's about 2324 states, I think, where Tesla cannot sell vehicles directly to consumers, because Tesla does not use franchise dealers. So, you know, we've got this system here in the US and a number of other countries have similar systems, where manufacturers don't sell direct vehicles directly to consumers, they sell them to franchise dealers, which are independent businesses, those dealers then sell on to consumers. And they provide service and maintenance and everything.

Tesla, you know, when they started, they opted to have company own stores and not have any franchise dealers. The problem is, franchise dealers have been around since the early 20th century. And, you know, the owners of dealers, you know, got, you know, fairly affluent, and they were able to buy a lot of influence with state politicians, which got them laws in place to prevent manufacturers from competing with them, which, you know, at the time those laws were passed, they made a lot of sense, because, you know, the dealers had made a significant investment in their dealerships, and an equipment and tool, a spare parts and everything. And they didn't want to have to compete directly with the manufacturers who could potentially undercut them on price.

So places like Michigan don't allow direct sales by manufacturers to consumers.

Some states like California,

have franchise laws, but for a new manufacturer coming in, that doesn't have any dealers, they can bypass that and go do direct sales, as long as they don't have any existing dealers that are competing with. So up until January of this year, if you want to, if you were lived in Michigan, and you wanted to buy a Tesla, you had to go buy one in Illinois, or Indiana or Ohio.

And Tesla has been suing the state of Michigan for a number of years,

you know, trying to get that law changed. They finally settled with the state back in January. And they came to a compromise. And the state said, okay, you can

sell directly to consumers you're selling because Tesla's mostly selling online now, you can sell the vehicles to consumers, but the cars have to be titled in another state first. And when you do the the transfer to the to the consumer, that it has to be titled somewhere else. And then the consumer can bring it back into the state and retitle it in Michigan. So you'd have to, you know, you'd get the car from Ohio or Chicago or somewhere, you know, and bring it back and take it to the Secretary of State's office and, and get a new title for titles, transfer the title to Michigan and get Michigan license plates on it.

The state legislature now has a bill that they're working on that would close that loophole so that no other Evie manufacturer, or no other new new entrant can do the same thing. And

for some reason, you know, I mean, it's targeting companies like rivian, which, you know, has a tech center here in Michigan, and employs you know, some 750 people here. But you if this bill passes, you won't be able to buy a rivian in Michigan,

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:53  
you know, unless they decide to get some dealers. What do you think? Well, first of all, those dealers can't even be owned by rivian. So it's not like ribbing can set up shop like it's not like just it's it's not even saying to rivian you have to have a dealership, it's that you have to have a franchise. Yes, your shadow ray, which is not always ideal and really means that the manufacturer is at the mercy of this franchisee to represent their product correctly, which is a big challenge. Because you know how many times if somebody got into the dealership had a bad experience and said, I'm never buying x brand again. Meanwhile, that experience was was may have just been local to that specific dealership. The brand itself is still fantastic, but that those dealers represent they are they are the face of the brand. And it's really frustrating for manufacturers, if they're having issues with their dealers, because then consumers have issues with the brand

But they don't have issues with the brand, they have issues with that dealer.

You know, but but as a general consumers and go the dealer is is your brand exactly right. So you've got to get that dealers, you're on onpoint, with what you want to say about your brand. And what's happened. Now the idea that they're closing that loophole that Tesla's still going to be able to operate without having dealers, but rivian and lucid and others that come in or not, they're going to have to set up dealers, that's just adding an incredible expense already to an already, you know, incredibly capital intensive environment, like building a vehicle and building ATVs, in particular. So I think it's unfortunate, and that the precedent that was set with Tesla isn't allowed to carry out its legal course, because I think it's putting it keeps Tesla with a very unfair advantage. And so the playing field is not at all level. And when it comes to the dealers, and so, you know, have Tesla have this totally separate ruling that nobody else can take advantage of. just doesn't seem really very fair. No, I agree. You know, I think it would be better if we did something like what they have in California, where, you know, if, if an if a manufacturer has an existing do franchise dealer network, fine. Don't let them compete directly with them. But if they're coming in clean, and they don't have any legacy dealers, let them set up their own shops. Yeah, yes. And, you know, the thing about, you know, the question of company on stores versus dealers, you know, there's pluses and minuses on both sides, but neither one is a perfect solution. You know, the reason they that manufacturers got franchise dealers in the first place in the early years of the industry,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:04  
is because, you know, once a manufacturer builds a vehicle, and they ship it to the dealer, the dealer owns that car now, right manufacturer is no longer sitting on that inventory. As soon as they ship it, to the dealer, they get paid for it, it's considered sold. Yes, it's for the manufacturer, it's considered sold. So they're right there, you know, they've, they got that they get that revenue right away. And so you know, that it's good for the manufacturers for cash flow, you know, for dealers, you know, they get a markup on that vehicle, you know, and they get to benefit from other things, like, you know, selling service and accessories and things like that, you know, and that, you know, they have relationships with the manufacturers through their financing arms to get, you know, financing for those those vehicles and things like that.

And, you know, you it, they make the investment in the real estate, you know, the the building the equipment, spare parts, the dealer, the friend, yes. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's many millions of dollars to do that. It's a significant investment. Right, do that. And that, you know, the the manufacturers offloading that, that requirement onto another business to do that. So there's there's a benefit to the manufacturer that way, yes, they're getting less of the revenue, you know, they're taking a hit, you know, because they're selling it for a wholesale price, and the dealer, you know, has a markup on that. But they also aren't incurring that cost associated with actually selling the vehicle to a consumer. Right, that I do think that sometimes they will

aid, you know, there may be some financial aid that they'll give to dealers. Oh, yeah. You know, and again, it's a little bit different when you're starting from scratch, right, asking a dealer to do a, you know, a $5 million renovation on a dealership or even a network of dealers, you know, is can can be very, very cost prohibitive, and oftentimes that manufacturer then will have to bear the some of the cost to your to get their dealers looking all the same, or to get them up to the same standard such Yeah, and, you know, for example, Cadillac announced last week that all of their dealers, their 600, dealers, are going to be required to spend $200,000 over the next two years to upgrade to support Cadillacs, upcoming electric vehicles, starting with the lyric, you know, and that includes, you know, parts inventory, you know, tools, training, and also installing a DC fast charger on site. You know, so that's, you know, that's money that those those dealers, those Independent Businesses are going to have to spend in order to sell Cadillacs, electric vehicles. You know, the real part of the reason why Tesla decided to do this

Their own retail network is one of the challenges for automakers is getting their dealers to actually try to sell Evie. Yeah, does, you know there's this risk of having lower lower service revenue, because that's where a lot of their profit comes from is on service and accessories and things like that Not so much from the new new vehicle sales.

So, you know, they, the traditional manufacturers have often had a hard time getting their dealers to actually get the customers to go and buy a plug in vehicle instead of a gas fuel fee. And it takes longer to sell an electric vehicle to a customer. Yeah, yeah, in the show within the showroom. And so because you got to, you know, explain, you know, teach them all about, you know, how it works and everything. So, it's been a challenge. And, you know, Tesla decided to bypass that with their company on stores, you know, but that also means that now, you know, for every one of their stores, they've had to invest several million dollars, you know, for a storefront, you know, and, you know, paying the staff, and setting breaking leases and breaking leases, and, you know, service service departments, you know, and that's been a huge drain on Tesla. You know, that's, that's been one of their challenges, you know, in reaching profitability. So, you know, it, it's, it's not, you know, it's having company on sores is not an easy solution. But if a company wants to go down that path, I think that, you know, they should have the right to do that if they don't have any franchise dealers that they're already competing with. Exactly, right. I agree. I think that they should have the option. If they want to do franchisees. That's fine. If they don't, though, to have that option. I think they have that choice. I think it's really important. I agree with you.

So speaking of electric vehicles, as we record this Tuesday night, tomorrow, Volkswagen will be unveiling a new electric vehicle. We got a look at it today, and backgrounder. It's the new ID for which is VW is first purpose built Evie that's coming to the US market. And it's also launching in Europe and other markets this fall as well. So, Rebecca, what do you think of the ID floor? So I think that this is a really nice looking vehicle. It's sort of like it's a it's it's actually very similar to I think, in size to the cross track. Right? I think it's a I'm not sure about the it's a compact crossover. It's, it's actually exactly the same, like 118.5 inches as a Ford Escape, and about half an inch shorter than a rav4. Okay, so maybe it's a little bit bigger than the Crosstrek. Maybe we're on the outback. Yeah, yeah, I think the outback is closer. You know what I just I think it's an it's so from a look standpoint, I like it looks normal, it doesn't scream. I'm an AV. I price point. $40,000, I think is really, really good. That is before the 70 $500

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:11  
federal tax credit that it does qualify for. I was a little disappointed in the range of 250 miles, because I feel like 300 miles is sort of the is the preferred number. And it's getting to be the preferred number. Yeah, there's, there's a bunch of other competitors in that price range, like the Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona. Evie. Yeah, the nice bike by consumers, yes.

Prefer by consumers to see that a three in front of that number. And you're absolutely right most, most of the competitors.

The Tesla Model three, standard range plus is 260 miles. So you know, it's not much more Yeah, but Tesla's always given a pass by consumers, which, like, we're talking about mainstream, you know, getting people to look at these things. But so that was the only thing that was a little bit disappointed about, I was surprised that it wouldn't have a three in front of there. And I love the fact that there's an all wheel drive version available, obviously living on you know, on the East Coast, Northern and the Northeast, we get snow and so, you know, I I think that there's an opportunity here to really draw new people into the Evie space. I it's, you know, I like again, I like the way that it looks, I think it's got a lot of good features to it. I think it's got a really good, you know, sophisticated battery pack to it and and that range. And so, you know, I think overall I'm impressed with it. I'm looking forward to seeing it. What were your thoughts on it? Yeah, you know, I mean, this. This is built on Volkswagens new MTB platform. So this is their new electric vehicle architecture that they already launched. The

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:00  
d3 in Europe went on start deliveries to customers a few weeks ago. And you know, the ID three is roughly golf sized hatchback.

And you know, the ID four is that you know, compact crossover. There's going to be, I think, roughly 75, different nameplates derived from MVD over the next five years for Vw 99 different car brands, globally. Yes, globally. You know, there's also going to be the Audi q4 e Tron coming next year, which is also on this, the ID buzz, the microbots. That's coming at 2022. Also off this platform. So you know, one of the things that's interesting about this, me be the default configuration is rear wheel drive the electric motors that the rear axle, yeah. So you know, one of the things about the the ID four, and the ID three as well, there's no front, no front trunk, because what they did was they compressed that space in the front, you know, expanded out the passenger volume, shorten the front overhang, and you know, so the front area, you know, is taken up just by like the climate control hardware, and on the all wheel drive versions, the motor will be down there as well. The second motor, but, you know, the base, the, so they start sales, they hope to ship some of the few first addition models before the end of the year, but then really go on sale in the first quarter of next year. So the the base rear wheel drive version, 201 horsepower, that 250 miles range, you know, which is not great, but you know, better than what they got out of the Audi e Tron. Right and 250 miles is, is completely clueless, for most for, for what people actually need to do with it. It's just psychologically, you know, that those mainstream people? Yep, may not appreciate that. And the the all wheel drive version is going to be 302 horsepower. Yeah. The, the design language that they've developed for their ATVs, you know, the, the ID three, this is, you know, very similar kind of look, you know,

they're, you know, one of the things they've mentioned, you know, is, you know, this transition from Chrome to lighting on the front,

you know, so you got the signature lighting, you know, around the headlamps, and across the front and you know, in some models, a backlit version of the beam, or the the b&o the Volkswagen grille. I think that's a really nice looking vehicle. Yeah, no, I do. I like it a lot. It's got a kind of a nice, muscular, athletic look to it. Nice, nice stance to it. And I like, you know, the contrasting roof, you know, which is something we've talked about before, yes. You know, and then, you know, that base price of $40,000. There's two option packages available. If you load it up, you know, that gets you to $46,000.

And, actually, the best value, if, if you're interested in one of these, the best thing to do is actually get the first edition.

Because the first edition, they didn't say how many there's going to be, you know, maybe a few thousand of these. Okay, but if you get the first edition, it actually the two packages are the statement package and the gradient package. I have no idea why they named them the way they did. But that's what they are. The first edition actually includes everything that's in those two packages, except for the the light up VW logo on the badge on the hood on the front. So you get everything else that's in those two packages that normally cost $46,000 for $44,000. So if you act now, you can save $2,000

wait, there's more. No. Well, there is more there. You get a 70 $500 tax. Yeah, you get the 7500 if you're in California, you can get another two grand, grand or if you're in New Jersey. So yeah, it's it's really good. Oh, and the other thing, they're including three years of unlimited DC fast charging, electrify America stations. Yes. So, you know, if you don't have a charger at home, you can go to an EAA station, you know, for the first three years and charge to your heart's content, fast charge and charge from 5% to 80%. Take about 3538 minutes. And I think they showed they were showing the lease price I think it was was it 333 79 379 and then they talked about the fact that what you're saving and gas it basically will be $50 a month. You know, if you subtract how much you're saving in gas, they don't go into Yeah, the cost is for the electricity, but

it was a you know, they estimate the gas savings compared to a TIG one which is their other compact right?

is going to be about 3500 bucks 30 $500, you know, over five years, over five years, so so $750 a year in in fuel savings.

And, you know, so 3500 bucks, you know, if, if you use Tesla math, and you take take that off, you know, off the purchase price. Yeah. Now you're down to $29,000. You know, starting price

is really good deal. Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, it's, you know, it's not, it's not cheap, you know, it's certainly not, you know, in as inexpensive as, you know, something like the base ionic, or, you know, the, the cross track. But, you know, it's also, you know, it's getting into the heart of that market, you know, the average transaction price on those competitive compact crossovers like the CRV and rav4, and escape, you know, is in that low $30,000 range anyway, that's their average selling price for those. So you're gonna, you're gonna end up paying roughly the same and you're not going to have any gas and, and for the first three years, you may not even have to pay for electricity for it. Yeah, it's amazing. I just, I love the fact that, first of all, it's real. Yes.

But it's not just a concept. But it just, it looks like the kind of car that you would want to drive, it kind of almost reminds me of like, a Mazda CX five, or, you know, that kind of that, like, it's a car that you would that looks practical, but stylish, and very urban, very modern. And yet it happens to be electric, as opposed to trying to force people into something weird. This looks like a car that just happens to be electric. You know, and this is good. So I think, you know, the interior is definitely much more modern. That's this is an area where it's diverged from traditional V, Ws, nice, the instrument cluster, that's a digital instrument cluster, it's a 5.3 inch display that's right in front of you, you know, has speed and things like that some of your mode information, you know, on this, on the right hand side of that is a toggle, or a road, switch to rotate, to shift from park to reverse and drive in neutral. And then there's a standard central display as a 10 point 10 at 10.2 inch display. And then optional is a 12 inch touchscreen display. All of the other controls on the steering wheel, and on the dashboard are all touch controls, which I'm not crazy about.

Yeah, but it, it's going to be interesting one, one thing that's interesting, it has gesture controls for the touchscreen, so you don't actually have to touch the screen. So you don't have to, you can swipe through the menus, just by gesturing with your hand, we'll see how well that works. You know, I think you still may have to actually touch it to activate the stuff on those menus. But you can swipe through, but you can also do a lot of stuff. Or they say you'll be able to do a lot of stuff with the voice controls, which, you know, much like a lot of you know, the other digital voice assistants around you, you can trigger that with Hey, ID, right. And then it you know, you can control, you know, climate control and audio and other things from that. And one of the things that they talked about was, it doesn't have a stop Start button. Yes. When you get in. It's it just you know, you put it in Drive and it goes which is actually the same as Tesla. Tesla doesn't have a stop Start Button either. You just put it in part and driver reverse and you go, oh, okay, I did it. You have to have the key, you have to have the key fob on you. Okay. During the call today I asked a question if I'm not drop off. Yeah. I'm not sure if they actually knew the answer to the question I was asking. But what the question I was asking was about ultra wideband, which is a new wireless technology, which debuted last fall on the new golf that's available in Europe, which is being sold here. And it's also on the ID three, they both have ultra wideband technology for the key fob, which is different from the traditional RF technology. So the way it works, it's much more secure, and much, much faster to respond to things. So when you walk up to the car, you can have the key fob in your pocket. And as you approach the car, you know, it'll be able to unlock for you and you can get in so you know, like like a lot of others. But the way it works, I'm not going to go into all those details. I'll include a link to an article I wrote about that. And there's a good video with

Lars Rhaegar, who's the CTO of NXP, who makes that ultra wideband chip.

One of the cool things about that if you have an iPhone recent iPhone like an iPhone 11 and presumably other upcoming iPhones. There's a chip in there

They call the one chip, which is an ultra wideband chip, the new version of iOS, and presumably, in the not too distant future Android and some Android phones will also have ultra wideband

allows you, the iOS 14 has support for a new standard called Digital key. So you can actually use the ultra wideband chip that's in your phone, once you pair your phone to the car, you can use that as your key, don't have to take your phone out, you don't have to unlock it. It's it's using a very secure communication system. And so you get it you unlock, you know the car, sit and get inside, put it in Drive and go. Very, very quick, very responsive. So I'll link to that article in the in the show notes for this episode. Cool. And then the other thing that they commented on was the wireless experience where they're really trying to make the vehicle a fully wireless experience, including being able to use your phone with my understanding with the Android app, Apple CarPlay, your wireless wired, wireless Android Auto and airplay, and then as a standard cheap charging pad wireless charging pad under the dash. So you can just put your phone down there, Doctor, plug it in, don't have to touch anything, you know, should be very easy.

And you should and you also get five years of

connected services with the car as well. So first five years are complimentary. Now I'm really excited for this. I'll be I'll be very, very interested to see what consumer responses on it as Yeah, the ID three has been getting pretty positive reviews in Europe since they since they started driving it a few weeks ago. So I'm looking forward to trying this one out. For sure. All right, let's let's hit a couple of listener emails and call it a night. So first one is actually just a comment from Jerry Cox really enjoyed the podcast and have a question regarding noise and ride. I should there's another one. That's a comment. But anyway, noise and ride. It's really important to me how a car takes the bumps and how much road noise makes it to the cabin. Can you provide the decibel rating at 65 to 70 miles an hour for the automobiles reviewed?

Jerry, we'd love to.

If you will send us a sound meter, we would happily do that evaluation for you. They good sound meters good. Yeah, accurate sound meters are quite expensive. And you may have noticed that there's no ads on the show yet. And we're not getting paid for it. So anybody that wants to send us a sound meter, we will put it to good use. But unfortunately right now we don't have that equipment available to us. So we can't give you those numbers.

Sorry.

Rebecca Lindland  1:27:50  
That's a great question, though.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:52  
Yeah, no. And we we try as much as possible to talk about road noise and such. Yeah, we try to give you our subjective evaluations, you know, and when, when a car has a lot of road noise or a lot of engine noise, you know, especially if it's an unpleasant sound. We do try to highlight that well pointed out. I don't know if that's a highlight, but sometimes we highlight it. But we do we do try to give you an idea of what to expect from this car. Yes. So All right, next up, Robert Clark. I'm a pretty new listener, and I wanted to let you all know they really appreciate the show. unbiased, honest and sincere sincere reviews have impressed me. When I started listening, I expected you only to recommend high price vehicles and put down affordable vehicles. You haven't done that. I've been impressed and pleased to hear the review and recommended vehicles of all price ranges. Keep up the good work. Thank you, Robert. Thank you. That's lovely. Yes.

That's the one that was the comment. Yeah.

And another one from Blake Swan who we answered his questions last week. But he's got another one for us. Says Question four. Do you find Lexus relevant anymore when Genesis is offering new rear wheel drive based SUVs and cars and even Lincoln is offering rear drive based SUVs coarser side.

I just like the just feel like the RX has only gotten uglier and heavier as time has gone on. While keeping the V six 3.5 liter V six is a staple. Surely someone will catch on and realize the new rav4 is better in almost all areas than the annex based on the prior Gen rav4. Still, looking looking at the 21 Lexus IS whatever, whatever was its second refresh does Lexus Toyota care? The flagship lc 500 being the lone exception. Even their sports cars they pay someone else to make them are half hearted the new z looks to be everything the Supra should have been and sadly isn't. What do you think? Is Lexis relevant? Well, you know I think we talked about this actually last week when we were going

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:00  
Over the the LC 500 that I had, because it's such a fantastic vehicle, it's a really good example of what Lexus could still be. The brand itself has been has been living off of the spoils of the baby boomers for so many decades really, since it started right like so started in the mid 80s. Right at the time, when the oldest baby boomers were moving into peak earning years, and they wanted to buy luxury products. They were you know, dedicated to Toyota and they wanted something more luxurious. So Lexus was created the same reason infinity and accurate was created same time. But I think that Lexus has a, they were they were also they were so invested in the RX, that was their bread and butter for decades. And now, the people that bought the RS are empty nesters and retiring. And they're just, you know, they're not buying things like the LC 500. So I think that Lexus is struggling to kind of to stay relevant in, in this marketplace that has so many different demographics in it, and so many different cohorts. And when you think about the millennials, that, you know, they grew up with Lexus, and they are not going to buy what their parents bought. So I think Blake has a point, I understand his concern for sure. Because I do think that Lexus is kind of struggling.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:31:34  
I agree, you know, trying to trying to figure out what they want to be going forward. You know, and I think this is a challenge for any brand is trying to, to understand, you know, what it what it wants to be what it wants to represent, and who it wants to appeal to.

And, you know, for something like Lexus, you know, which started off as you know, this epitome of refinement and quality.

Rebecca Lindland  1:32:02  
Yeah, is that, you know, when everything, you know, has gotten so good. Yeah, including, you know, Toyota vehicles, you know, that are made by the same manufacturer. And some cases, you know, in the same plants, you know, is there, you know, what's, what's the place of Lexus anymore? Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I think. And one of the things I would encourage manufacturers to do is, is as you're designing the product, to not design for their audience today, but to look out seven years, who is in the marketplace, how are they are different than people that are in the marketplace today. And that's a key thing of like, of some of the work that I've done in the past, understanding the core values, understanding the growing up experience, understanding, you know, how growing up experiences have impacted the the people that are coming into the marketplace, and those enduring mindsets. And I think that Lexus really, I,

I think that they've struggled a bit in that in, in evolving AI, and you're always going to go through waves, you know, in popularity and such, but I think that, you know, they, they are vulnerable to being taken over by even a brand like Lincoln that has great product, because at the end of the day, it does always start and end with product. The marketing needs to enhance that, and needs to clarify, and, and, and confirm that product, but you can't sell a product that isn't good. And, and I think that, you know, not to say Lexus isn't good, but you know, you've got to sell a product that you believe in. And I think that Lexus has good product, but it's not as exciting, perhaps, and it may be a little bit more staid then and hasn't stayed as relevant even though they could, you know, they there is there is I think that lc 500 shows that there is passion there and there is capability there. And look, you know, they they have done some great things with Toyota. So it's there, it's in there. It's in their wheelhouse. I think they just haven't really been able to execute as well. And I have to laugh. Like says I'm a senior financial analyst who also was an auditor in a prior life. And just an FYI. Blake, I used to work for the FDIC and I closed banks and I have an accounting degree. So when we talk about people that are in the financial field, we we do because he says something about the job. So don't think finance people don't in

Joyce splurging on fun.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:35:03  
I would assure you that my FDIC background has not hindered my ability to enjoy fun cars. And, you know, with with, with reference to Genesis, you know, which is part of the original question, you know, while you know, we have been, you know, we've praised Genesis vehicles profusely over the last several years. You know, the reality is, you know, that Genesis as as good as we think their cars are,

Rebecca Lindland  1:35:29  
is still very much, you know, I would grade them an incomplete. Yeah, you know, because, you know, they haven't really been able to get sales ramped up, you know, they haven't, they haven't been able to get the market. Really excited about it. Yeah. Well, I mean, first of all, it's product right there. They're the gvhd is we're still waiting. We saw it, it's still not out yet, though. And so they don't have an SUV in their in their lineup, they started with choose sedans. sedans are fantastic in the Korean market, they are not appropriate in the US market. And the dealer network. Ironically, since we talked to like about dealers, their franchise, they had all sorts of fits and starts with how they weren't going to roll out this brand. So they didn't have they, they really didn't have the right product to start with. Even though it's really good. It's not people aren't buying today, it's not the right product for this market. It's not the right product. Exactly. And then you couple that with the with the the disruption that they had, with their dealer network, who was going to get them, some dealers weren't weren't going to be getting agendas. First, they wanted separate showrooms, which is very, very expensive, as we talked about earlier. And then they said, Okay, well, only a certain number of dealers were going to get them and then that pissed off other dealers. And it just was this kind of escalation. Now, they've actually lost some very good senior people. So Manfred Fitzgerald is who was the CEO, and oversaw some of the development of a number of these vehicles. He is gone. Luke, whose last name you know how to pronounce, thank you.

He has left the company as well. And Luke actually oversaw a lot of the design of these really good products. Some Yep, one of his, his colleagues is still there. And and we'll carry on that that vision. But, you know, they also lost a fantastic young designer, who did some really cool concepts for them. So they there is disruption there, they have lost some people that that kind of had that, that that stabilized the vision. And now those people have moved on. So it's definitely a company in transition. I will see what we'll see where, where they end up. Yeah, it's, I hope they succeed. Because absolutely, they've done some great products. And they've got more more coming. So absolutely. It's, it's gonna be a challenge. And it's always a challenge, getting a new brand up and running, just as it's a challenge. perpetuating an old brand. You know, it's not easy to it's not easy to keep a brand relevant.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:16  
You know, Cadillac has struggled with it, you know, Lincoln's struggled with it for a long time. They seem to have found their way in recent years. To to a large degree, but you know, even that, you know, we'll see if they can keep that going. keep that momentum going. Right. Because the product, the product for Lincoln is there. Yeah, but and sales are improving for sure. But I do you still think that they're they, they still have a lot of work to do? Oh, yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for your letters, keep them coming in. We love We love having that stuff to talk about. And, you know, if you like what you hear, you know, give us a rating somewhere on Apple podcasts or whatever, whatever you listen to. And if you happen to be an amazon music listener, wheel bearings is now available in the podcast section on amazon music. I didn't even know that. It just launched it just launched recently. And I made sure to get the show in there. And

it's also on Spotify. If you listen to podcasts there and then you know, whatever pod catcher, you use all the links to all that stuff on wheel bearings dot media, just click on the top of the page and subscribe to the show. You'll find links to a bunch of the most popular podcast players and services where you can find us. Yep, and follow us on Twitter, and all good things. And Dan will probably be back with us next week, unless he gets trapped under something happy.

Rebecca Lindland  1:39:40  
Thanks, everybody. Bye. Thanks, everyone. Bye

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