Sam Abuelsamid  0:00  
Well,

Dan Roth  0:03  
This is wheel bearings on general from Forbes. 

Rebecca Lindland  0:06  
I'm Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. 

Sam Abuelsamid  0:09  
And I'm Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights. 

Dan Roth  0:12  
One of these things I want to go last, instead of

just switching the fun of it anyway, let's talk about what we're driving. Rebecca, what have you been in? 

Rebecca Lindland  0:22  
So it was funny case, when I was looking at this, I realized that I had, I usually change my vehicles on Thursdays, and we're we happen to be recording on Thursdays. And last week, we recorded I think, on Thursday, and I just swapped out my Kona Ev. So normally, I'm very behind schedule on my reviews. And instead, I'm like, almost ahead of schedule right now. Don't worry.

So I went from the Hyundai Kona Evie, I went to the Audi Q seven, actually. And this is the 2020. So I Audi switched over there meet the company that the agency that does the media drive, so our media loans, so there was kind of a long lags this thing had 8000 miles on it already. I was scheduled for it a number of months ago. And then I think all the changeover and everything. So it's actually you know, it's, it's, I like getting into a car that has a little light bite on it, you know, as opposed to something that's brand brand new. But when I went to kind of get some specs and everything, the 2021 is already up on the Audi site, but I don't think it's really changed all that much. So anyway, it has, it's a 3.0 liter B six 335 horsepower, eight speed automatic. And, you know, I, I had the cute eight a couple of months ago, which I just loved. And while I really liked the Q seven, I think it's a great vehicle for a family. It was heavy, if that makes sense. Like, it felt heavy to me felt heavy, it didn't have a lot of dynamic driving inputs to it, I did put it in dynamic mode, with the Audi select, which is actually really nice and accessible. But Gosh, I just I wanted it to loosen up a little bit, I felt like, you know, it's like it's the library. And that's like, way too buttoned up. So

yeah. I really missed the QA. But um, you know, when I think about cars like this, one of the things I always try and do is not think of my of my lifestyle with this, but think about who should buy this car. And, you know, one of the things that we're seeing a lot of is families moving out of the city out of New York City, for better for worse, but a lot of families are moving up to this Metro New York area out of the city, and they're actually buying cars for the first time. And you're in or in a long time. Certainly. And I think that a car like the Q seven is great for that it's seven passenger, there's plenty of room in there. I like the fact that there's you know, it's packed full with technology and safety and and you know, has a great style to it. So that's kind of where I went in my head when I was thinking about this vehicle is that it's, it's, you know, it's a car that you can really grow into as a family. And this added the towing package on it. 7700 pounds of towing that goes with it. So, you know, I think it's a it's a great, great family car. For those people especially that may be moving out of the city may not have a car for the first time, you know, or in a long time. And lots of safety features on it, you know that the lane correction, it did often tell me that I needed to drive in the center of my lane, which I don't know if that just

Sam Abuelsamid  3:48  
Audi's if you go on my driving, if you go on the settings, you can you can change you know, the degree of, you know, prompting and coaching that you get.

Rebecca Lindland  4:00  
Yes, well, I probably I should have done that I drove it about 300 miles I but you know, the lane departure was actually kind of cool because I you know that you can especially as we've often talked about when you're in a new vehicle and you're still trying to learn the buttons, knobs and switches and everything and where everything is it's not that it's poorly placed. It's just that we literally have stepped into it and we may not know exactly where everything is. I do like the fact that it has lane centering or you know, this this one time I was on a two lane road nobody was coming but it corrected You know, it gently brought me back into the center of the lane. And and I like that, you know, it does it in a way that's not obtrusive, and and and keeps you safer frankly, because it is easy to get distracted in today's world. So I there was things that you know, I really liked about it, the infotainment system worked really well I love all the Audi, electronics and everything. Nice place for my phone. You know super quiet, which I really, really enjoyed. And and I you know, it's just it's been great. I thought it was a really, really nice vehicle. The only thing that I didn't love about it was the driving dynamics. I just felt like it was really heavy. And again, I went up and down all the different Drive Select modes that they have. So this one is starts at 68,000, the one that I had topped at 86,000. So it's not cheap. But Gosh, it's pretty.

Dan Roth  5:30  
It's not supposed to be cheap. It's it's kind of like it drives heavy. It is heavy.

Rebecca Lindland  5:38  
driven. And have you had

Sam Abuelsamid  5:39  
that? Seven? No, the the only I've driven the E Tron, which is even heavier. Yeah, but actually doesn't really feel quite it actually feels a little more nimble because the E Tron is actually a little smaller. Yeah, than this. You know, the Q seven is quite large.

Rebecca Lindland  5:56  
It is I drove the I was on the launch of the Audi e Tron and, and I definitely didn't have that feeling especially because we got lost in Dubai. And, and I wasn't

Dan Roth  6:11  
right there. Right last album.

Rebecca Lindland  6:16  
I wasn't driving but my colleague was but but you know, driving

Sam Abuelsamid  6:20  
wasn't Ellis. I'm sorry. Who was it?

Rebecca Lindland  6:24  
It was Matt Deacon from Kelley Blue Book. Okay. Yes. And he's such a sweetheart. I love that. I but I actually know the you know, I know Dubai fairly well having lived nearby and so the the E Tron definitely didn't have that feeling. I thought that was a really, really fun car to drive. The other funny thing is that going from the Hyundai Kona Evie without that instant torque. I really missed that. It was funny to go. Interesting. Yeah. Right. Like I it kind of surprised me because I thought, gosh, you know, this, the the Audi is is really heavy. I don't know exactly. I'll try and find out exactly how much it weighs. But you know, 335 horsepower, that's a that's a good amount. I mean, it's not it's certainly not overkill.

Dan Roth  7:13  
That fi six, that's the 90 degree v six right. That's that's not I don't it's not that torquey Okay, it's not

Rebecca Lindland  7:22  
Yeah, absolutely. Not that torquey

Sam Abuelsamid  7:25  
Yeah, and it's a twin turbo V six. But it's it's not as it's it's fairly responsive. But you know, in a vehicle of that weight, you know, you can you can feel that it's it's working to get up you know, build up ahead of steam.

Dan Roth  7:41  
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and turbo turbo is like no matter how fast they are, and Audi and VW is they're very good at making them spool quickly. But there's still that lag off the line. And I do wonder if you were to have a little time between the an Eevee of any kind, and this vehicle again, if you still sense that that sort of almost like sluggishness, or if you'd like you say, like, it might be that, you know that that Evie torque is really addictive. It's nice.

Sam Abuelsamid  8:12  
I'll say this much. Yeah, just today, you know, swapped up an Audi s5, which I'll talk about next week, as far as quarterback. But you know, it has basically the same engine, but a little higher output. It's like 350 horsepower, version of the vehicle, much smaller, much lighter vehicle. And it also does not feel like it's going to leap off the line. When you you know, when you're accelerating off the line, you know, it, it doesn't, it's not, it doesn't have that instant responsiveness that you have from an electric motor or a lot of other, you know, some other gasoline motors. So, you know, I can, and, you know, I can imagine, you know, the Q sevens, probably 1000 pounds heavier than that. That's five, and so I can see where it would definitely feel maybe a little sluggish off, you know, is responsiveness.

Rebecca Lindland  9:02  
Yeah, it was it was definitely it was deliberate. Yeah,

Dan Roth  9:06  
it's what I'll call it delivered as it was thinking about its next move.

Rebecca Lindland  9:11  
It just it, it required that, like, you know, when you drive via you look at vehicle, sometimes you think does it drive bigger or smaller than it is? And I was always kind of aware that I was in a large vehicle, not just because it has a high driving position. But it did. It weighed a lot. It weighed a lot. It was a lot to, you know, I enjoy driving it in and I actually drove it down into New York City yesterday. And so, you know, it is it's nimble for its size, but it's not just nimble period. Right.

Dan Roth  9:44  
Yeah. And that's that's a good car for for Manhattan. So how does it How does it ride on those streets?

Rebecca Lindland  9:50  
It was wonderful. I mean, I did play you know, again, I played around with some of the with the drive voting and put it in comfort obviously for all the potholes and everything.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:59  
Something up curious about is the infotainment system. You know, I see it's got the same dual screen setup that's in the the E Tron. And does this does the Q seven also have you know the haptic feedback where you have to actually press a little bit? And then you know, it feels like it's clicking like a switch?

Rebecca Lindland  10:18  
Yes, it does, although I don't believe it worked in Android Auto, because there were definitely times well,

Sam Abuelsamid  10:24  
like, yeah, the trontz the same way that the an Android Auto, it just touches no haptic feed. Right,

Rebecca Lindland  10:30  
which I do like that the haptic feedback a lot.

Sam Abuelsamid  10:33  
Okay. I was just curious what you thought of that. Yeah. To me, it was almost, almost, but not quite, you know, a little bit of a throwback to the battle days of the BlackBerry storm. And for anybody that's ever used a storm. I'm sorry. Oh,

Rebecca Lindland  10:49  
my gosh, I think I had one.

Sam Abuelsamid  10:51  
It was our first touchscreen phone. It had the clicky screen.

Dan Roth  10:55  
Oh, you don't like the haptic feedback? Cuz I think that's one of the things that I miss. I know.

Unknown Speaker  11:00  
I like a haptic

Dan Roth  11:01  
Yeah, it's, it's like you get a positive response, like you have entered a command. You know, that haptic feedback can't replace is being able to operate it without without looking. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  11:14  
Yeah. And and, you know, I don't mind the haptic feedback, you do have to get used to the fact that you actually do have to press a little bit harder. Yeah, it's not just, it's not just a tap on the screen like it is on a typical touchscreen, you actually have to press a little bit, it's requires a lot of pressure for it to respond, you know, but then you get that feedback. And, you know, I referenced the storm, but I mean, it's nothing like really like the storm, you know, it's it's a, it's a much more refined feeling. And the screen is not actually physically moving. Like

Rebecca Lindland  11:47  
those things happen. You know, the instrument cluster is cool, because you can change it. And it's, you know, 3d like all that. I think the Audi's done just a great job with the technology. And it's, it's intuitive. I found it to be intuitive. Again, you we go from car to car, you have to get used to the buttons and the switches and such. By I doubt that was not a barrier at all.

Sam Abuelsamid  12:12  
Okay, cool. I enjoyed it.

Dan Roth  12:15  
So, Sam, you you've spent some time in the Hyundai venue? I did

Sam Abuelsamid  12:19  
spend a week with the Hyundai venue, Sal. So unfortunately, not the denim like, like, Rebecca. Yes, I love that one. But this was a white Sal. Yeah, so this is in terms of tread equipment levels, it's comparable, it's pretty similar to the denim you know, so it's the higher end version, there's the C, the C and the CL, and the denim are the three trim levels. And, you know, I like it, you know, this is, you know, this is this vehicle is effectively, you know, a replacement for the the accent hatchback, which, you know, went away with the latest generation of the accent, you know, it kind of takes place in the lineup, although it is it is more expensive than the accent, you know, the starting price on the CES, like 18 750, which is, you know, by today's standards is relatively affordable, you know, it's not not cheap. You know, and, you know, this, it's a little bit smaller than the Kona, you know, it, it lacks some of the features of the Kona, so it's a little bit smaller, cheaper than the Kona. And, you know, it's got front wheel drive only, you know, so it's a crossover. But you know, you can't get all wheel drive in it. It's got a beam axle on the rear, you know, like some others, like the Nissan Kicks, you know, very similar kind of idea where it fits in, in the the lineup. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  13:45  
it 2021 though, is showing that it has snow mode.

Unknown Speaker  13:51  
A venue?

Sam Abuelsamid  13:51  
That's Yeah, I mean, that's 21 I don't, I know I was sort of caught

Rebecca Lindland  13:57  
I just I just hold it up.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:00  
It might be it might be an optional,

Rebecca Lindland  14:02  
available on the S CL and denim trim. Snow mode helps to drive the driver drive more effectively and slippery roads, just it's snowing and windy roads that might be new.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:12  
It could be because I don't remember seeing that in here anywhere. No. And, you know, I mean that all that all that would be is probably a different set of calibrations that you engage for the stability control. So it's probably a little more, you know, tightens up to slip threshold so intervenes a little sooner, to try and keep you from getting into trouble and slippery conditions. So, you know, that would definitely be a good thing. But even you know, even as it is, you know, just front wheel drive, you know, it's it's a great daily driver. You know, the seats are comfortable, it's roomy, you know, even though you know it's a little bit smaller than the Kona you know, the backseat, you know, I was able to, you know, set the front, the driver seat where I would normally have it. I got in the backseat. I had some clearance for my knees, you know, and I'm five You know, my head was not touching the ceiling. So you know, it was it was it's comfortable for for adults, you know, three if three if you in the back if you you know if they're fairly slim slender

Rebecca Lindland  15:12  
but yeah social distancing yeah

Sam Abuelsamid  15:15  
but you know certainly for for adults it works you know you got 19 cubic feet of cargo space behind the seat so you know it's it's a really good all around daily driver you know not particularly performance you know only 121 horsepower but it's it's it's more than adequate it's plenty of it's plenty of power it's got plenty performance because only weighs 2700 pounds, plenty performance, you know for accelerating to merge into highway traffic, things like that does have a CVT. But Andre does a pretty nice job. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't feel too much like a CVT is not it's not particularly noisy. It's relative. It's surprisingly quiet really for for what it is. Yeah, the plastics are hard, and the interior and most most interior, but they look good, though, Don't they look good? Yeah, nicely textured, you know, no sharp edges, no flash marks that are visible, you know, so it all looks like it's nicely executed. You know, and the the CL that I had, you know, had the optional sunroof, the package with the sliding armrest, storage box and the leather wrap steering wheel and shift knob. blind spot monitoring with cross traffic alert, which is always a good thing to have, you know, the premium package, heated front seats, the LED headlamps until tell amps, and it had the eight inch navigation touchscreen, so even even in the SE the base setup, you know, you still get an eight inch screen. eight inch touchscreen, and Hyundai always does really good screen, sir. They're very high quality screens, very legible. You know, good, good contrast, and they don't get washed out in sunlight. And they're visible with sunglasses on. So, you know, this one had the optional navigation. But you can you can always forget that. And Cam 220 3000 405 including delivery charge. So, you know, I think, you know, a really good value. rate. How much was 23? For including Deluxe?

Dan Roth  17:12  
That's cheap.

Rebecca Lindland  17:14  
Yeah, sure. It's a 19. Eight. Yeah, I think I love how many safety features they put in this that you don't have to check every box, you know that it comes out of the box that comes really well equipped, I think,

Sam Abuelsamid  17:26  
yeah, Forward Collision Alert Lane Keeping Assist, blind spot. The blind spot monitoring is part of the is part of the premium package. Or the shortcut, I'm

Rebecca Lindland  17:40  
looking at 2021. So it may they may have rear cross traffic warning. I mean, those are just like nice that those are, those are good things to they're kind of like a reward. I feel like, you know, like we're gonna take care of, of what have you whether you're spending.

Sam Abuelsamid  17:57  
Unfortunately, the industry as a whole is moving in this direction of making a lot of those Driver Assist features standard equipment. Yeah, yeah. And even on entry level models like this. So, you know, I think that's, you know, that's a great trend. I'm glad to see it happen. Yeah, so things like automatic emergency braking and collision avoidance. And yeah, I think those are all really good features to have. And it's good that they're doing it.

Rebecca Lindland  18:21  
Yeah, absolutely. All right,

Dan Roth  18:23  
Dan, well, so I was driving another small SUV, this was from Kenya, I tried the seltos X, sx turbo, all wheel drive, basically the most loaded kia seltos you could get which rang up just under $30,000. And it's, it's again, it's a pretty good value for that price. It's really a design masterpiece I just loved looking at this car it outside and in there's just clever details everywhere you know that the metal around the grow has this, this this pattern that is you know, stamped into it but it it sort of fades as it gets to areas where it has to curve and stuff around like the lights and the grill opening steps. It's just really nicely detailed. And that extends into the interior, the shapes of the the dashboard and the controls and everything all look very premium. And like, like with the venue, the plastics and stuff, the materials look good that says some of them are hard, but they're pleasing to the eye. And I think that's important. You know, it looks premium It looks like a million bucks. I was a little disappointed at

Sam Abuelsamid  19:44  
least at least $100,000

Dan Roth  19:46  
Yeah. I was a little disappointed that the driving experience didn't quite live up to it. You know, it drove like a you know, $20,000 car because that's exactly what it is. You know, it just it was just fun. It's honest, and it's driving experience but you know, it's it's a little loud on the road, if you can hear the suspension doing doing its thing, sometimes there was some noise from the from the back, I couldn't ever find it, you know, with I didn't know what it was, you know, it seems like maybe torsion on the body would make the, the the hatch make a little noise here and there. I'm not sure and sometimes press cars do that because they are treated mercilessly. So don't take that for anything other than like I noticed a little noise in this particular one. For certain things

Sam Abuelsamid  20:39  
I did is a press car it's more than likely that what you were driving was actually a pre production model.

Dan Roth  20:45  
Yeah, it could be and it's not uncommon you know, I didn't notice it like out on the road but it's not uncommon when i when i their cars were all back them in and out of the driveway or something and just the combination of going over the the driveway apron and having the wheel turned and stuff it sets up torsion in the in the structure and even my jeep I can hear, you know, I can hear stuff move a little bit that's not uncommon, it's it's normal. It's just sometimes you hear a little more than the others and it just made me made me wonder what was going on. But it drives like a $20,000 car which is not necessarily an insult to it, it's a very honest driving experience. Like I said it It feels good and actually if you were to drive it in sport mode, and you can nudge the shifter over into sport mode as well. The sx turbo has a seven speed dual clutch transmission it all gets pretty responsive and because it's sx turbo it also has a multi link rear suspension versus a B max so that the some of the lower trims have it'll it'll go around corners and stuff its limits are pretty low but it'll it'll do your bidding in a pretty trusty manner. So it feels like it was it was tuned well which is not the case for key models sort of going back right they would have everything there on paper and then you try to drive it and make use of that capability it was just dynamically fall apart. So they've made progress there it's really pleasant to drive I liked it quite a bit other than the road nice you know, I found it to be kind of loud but you know the the turbo engine has 175 horsepower 195 pound feet of torque from a 1.6 liter so we've we've driven this engine and a bunch of other stuff before it's good, it's smooth, it sounds good. It works really well with the the transmission. I would have liked to try it with the CVT by but I think that would have limited me to the two liter that you get in terms like the s and the whatever I think the C LX and maybe the E x i forget where the turbo comes in. It's optional pretty largely across the board too. So the rise

Rebecca Lindland  23:04  
from I'm sorry, which is front wheel drive or all wheel drive.

Dan Roth  23:08  
all wheel drive and this one okay, it was it was all wheel drive. And it was it was it was good. It has all the the A das which is pretty unobtrusive. The lane centering isn't great. It gets the steering gets a little nachi and I thought it was pretty funny when I was driving it on some back roads. It is Do you ever get that indicator that lights up but the cars like hey, you should stop for a while?

Rebecca Lindland  23:34  
Yeah, that never happened. I don't know what you mean. Yeah, 15 minutes into my driving

Dan Roth  23:43  
you must be tired take a break. So I got that a few times. Which is totally my fault and I love that it's there and it just cracks me up when it comes up. It's like I'm more awake right now buster. But you know and you know it has adaptive cruise as lane centering blind spot monitoring the Forward Collision Alert. All of its you know, that's that's a pretty good suite of stuff for a vehicle that rings up under 30 grand, it's roomy, the backseat is pretty good when you know I set my my front seat where I wanted it, I felt like there was quite quite a bit of space to sit behind myself. So it's it's a really good vehicle for its segment. It has a lot of competition. And it's it's going to attract people who like the style. But I think that you know, even the rav4 or the CRV are probably a little quieter. And that might sway some people because I feel like that's that's what lets it down is just the driving experience that's a little stiff need a little a little less plush, than you might think looking at it. Versus and and and that that rhodonite versus something that's a little softer and a little quieter, that just by that very nature can feel a little bit more luxurious or just sort of well put together. But overall, you know, Hyundai and Kia they're just killing it. I just I loved looking at the car, I loved sort of just all the details that they they put in it and that really, for me, like I would I would find myself like rinsing the coffee cup just staring out the window at it. Like

Sam Abuelsamid  25:30  
that's, it's a it's a good looking little vehicle.

Dan Roth  25:32  
Yeah, and, and, you know, we're in this place, right where, okay, cars are kind of, you know, sedans and coupes and whatever, they're kind of going away, but that doesn't mean that you can't have have vehicles that are enjoyable. And then you know, I really enjoyed the the restraint and the maturity of the design, there's not a lot of gingerbread on it. So I think that's great. And I got 26 and a half miles per gallon, which isn't isn't terrible. And it it is a really good all rounder, you know, in the same way that like a forester is a really good all around her. It's not it's I don't think it's quite as roomy as a forester, but it's it's got a lot more panache.

Rebecca Lindland  26:14  
No, it does. I think it's so Nicole wakelin I Whoa, I think we know she writes for my site. Sam.

Sam Abuelsamid  26:23  
Rebecca drives.com. Thank you.

Dan Roth  26:27  
She's in the rubble rally isn't here

Rebecca Lindland  26:28  
she is on the rebel rally. But she wrote this KSL toast review that's on the site, she drove the same one. She probably didn't say what she said. Right. And she cites a lot of the same things that you said about it. I think the one that I had was like a total pre production it didn't even have, I think we talked about this when I didn't have a press a push button and start like it. I tried to build it and you can't actually build it. But the way the the way that it was configured, it was

Dan Roth  26:58  
definitely had a push button start. I mean, infotainment is good, you know. Yeah. And infotainment is quite good. So

Rebecca Lindland  27:03  
yeah, no, that's very good. But no, she She cites a lot of the same things. But the one thing that struck me is while you were speaking is that the top trim actually tops out at $32,000. Which I seems really, really high. I mean, it starts at 23. But well,

Dan Roth  27:24  
with with destination, right, what's the destination? Because I its destination has to be almost 1000 Yeah. So

Rebecca Lindland  27:33  
yeah. Yeah, you can turn this baby up to 32,000. So, right. I know, she said a lot of the same things that you did, you know, to NICE AND ROOMY. And the one point she had the one the 1.6 liter so yeah, the same.

Dan Roth  27:49  
Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  27:50  
Did she give you pictures? No, she didn't. Unfortunately, I had. Yeah,

Dan Roth  27:54  
I guarantee you. It's the same. But you know that I did miss paddle shifters. It doesn't have paddle shifters. It has a has a manual mode that's decently responsive, but it also shifts it won't won't, won't bounce off the rev limiter at redline so it'll shift for you, which is which is fine. You know, it's not slushy about it, but it's just interesting to see where they've made the compromises and I think they've made the right ones overall. You know, that's really what I sort of walked away with was saying you know, there's this compromises that they clearly made to bring this vehicle and I didn't find it terribly expensive at 30 k like it didn't have a sunroof which you may be able to add and drive the price up a little bit more but it it was very well equipped. Yeah, and you could definitely in the lower trims get all of the value or you know the value goes up because you're not really going to miss a lot of the stuff that the SX turbo had. And you'll you'll save some cash Yeah, it's gonna be just about as friendly even with the the beam axle you know, which is in the in the lower trims and the less powerful engine I don't really think you give up a lot. The powerful engine is nice, but it's not that powerful.

Rebecca Lindland  29:16  
Right? Well, as you say, it doesn't weigh a ton. So the 2.0 liter four cylinder and versus the 1.6 liter turbo, it's a different experience, right?

Dan Roth  29:25  
Yeah. I think the 1.6 is you know, it's a little smaller displacement wise it might be a little smoother. It is a smooth engine. It doesn't sound bad when you you you let it run out to redline or anything so it's not one of those four cylinders. It just lets you know it's unhappy.

Unknown Speaker  29:44  
Yeah. You know,

Dan Roth  29:46  
like the Honda four cylinder now does not sound good. This This one sounds good. So yeah, it's it's it's a solid vehicle. The really I it's funny because I stepped into a rogue Brittany rug this week, I've only had a couple of days. But my, my first impression was like, Damn, it's quiet here.

Rebecca Lindland  30:08  
I love this size of vehicle, though, I think it's, it's perfect for, you know, somebody that wants a small SUV doesn't want the, you know, the larger versions of these. I love that there's so much choice in this space.

Dan Roth  30:20  
Yeah, yeah, it's really easy to get in and out of because it's a little bit yeah, the ground is that, you know, higher trim, it's got the LED lights that are very good. So it's, it's one of those things like, it's another winner, there's things to criticize about it. But there's things to criticize about everything else in the segment too. So

Sam Abuelsamid  30:37  
and, and we really have to pick a lot of nits, you know, to find those things, in most cases on many of these vehicles,

Rebecca Lindland  30:45  
ya know, for sure.

Dan Roth  30:47  
You know, it is it would be nice for for sort of the full boat to have have stuff like shift paddles, have a sunroof, you know, but again, it's like, where'd they save the money, and they probably made the right choices to save the money and bring it in for for a price that is a little bit more palatable.

Sam Abuelsamid  31:05  
Well, one thing that's interesting that knows, you know, especially this past week, is getting in these smaller and smaller slices of the market, you know, so in the compact crossover market, you know, you've got the, the small compact, you know, so there's the subcompact stuff like the, like the, like the venue, and the Kona. And then there's the small end of the compact market, which is where you find things like the Mazda CX 30, and the seltos. And then, you know, the, the upper end of that segment, you know, where you get into the CRV and rav4, and escape and, and that, and, you know, just this week, you know, there was another new entry in this small compact with the VW towels. Yeah, we can talk about that a little more next week. But, you know, the towels, you know, is in that same size class actually just slightly bigger. It's like 175 inches long versus 173. For the seltos. There's 172 and 173, for the CX 30. You know, but it's, it's interesting how they're getting these smaller and smaller niches that they're filling, you know, and, you know, having the pricing go along with that size, as you go up in size, the price, you know, you're getting a little more premium little, you know, little pricier. And so, like the towels fits right, in this same segment. Yeah. In terms of size and pricing.

Rebecca Lindland  32:34  
Yeah, no, that's a great call for sure.

Dan Roth  32:36  
Well, and it's not like they it's a fairly new vehicle. They've gotten very good at taking platforms and making them slightly, slightly bigger, slightly smaller. You know, I mean, look at BMW BMW is trying to fill all the whitespace Yeah, it's like it's getting better or worse.

Sam Abuelsamid  32:54  
I mean, VW is a perfect example. You know, they've got their MP mq be architecture, which is really more of a toolkit, you know, a bin of parts that they can mix and match in all kinds of different ways. And they use mq B for everything from the Polo, which is their subcompact hatchback that they sell in Europe, all the way up to the Atlas. and everything in between is all based off MTB. That's crazy. Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  33:22  
So that's impressive.

Dan Roth  33:24  
Yeah. So we had a we had a pretty good run of cars this week. Yeah.

So we're joined right now by Jonathan Klinger from Haggerty, insurance. Jonathan joins us from all the way out on the you're like way on the lake side over is about as far as you can get from Detroit. 

Jonathan Klinger  33:43  
That's right. Yeah. At least in the Lord. You bet. Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  33:48  
Where are you on the mitten?

Unknown Speaker  33:51  
Well, Pinky. Yeah, we are the pinky. Yep. Yep, that's, that's the famous thing. Hold up your hand and we are between the PC and the index finger.

Unknown Speaker  33:59  
Nice.

Dan Roth  34:01  
So you know that you're talking to a real Michigander? Right. All right. So you're here to talk to us about what the state of state of the market are. What do you want to talk about Jonathan?

Unknown Speaker  34:12  
Hey, anything in the fun to drive category, but I mean, just like everybody, it's been an interesting year.

Sam Abuelsamid  34:23  
why don't why don't we start off with you know what Haggerty is? Because you know, Haggerty is just not your average car insurance company. You guys are different.

Dan Roth  34:32  
So they were a content shop now.

Sam Abuelsamid  34:36  
So, john, why don't you tell us tell us about Haggerty, first let's set the stage with that. And then we can dive into some of the other stuff.

Unknown Speaker  34:42  
Yeah, and I'll take a couple of minutes and just give a brief synopsis of the history because I think that I find that fascinating so so Frank Haggerty moved to Traverse City and in 1956 he as a young person still opened a State Farm Insurance agencies He was like your local insurance agent. And in the late 70s, had the opportunity to sell. And so it kind of found himself in a mid life retirement, and didn't work for a couple years, he was always a car guy always like restoring classic boats. And so for a couple of years, he got a chance to focus on some projects that he had lingering out behind the garage, like many of us do. And when he was working on these vintage wooden boats, he discovered that no one and this is in the early 80s, no one would insure a wooden boat. And the insurance industry collectively looked at wood boats as nothing more than floating pieces of firewood filled with gas

Sam Abuelsamid  35:53  
claim waiting to happen. Exactly. And Frank's

Unknown Speaker  35:55  
argument was, wait a minute, those of us that are crazy enough to use these things, we're probably the most careful of any boat owner out on the water. So why wouldn't you insure them? And so what happened was there was this unmet need out there. And he took his years of experiences of being an insurance agent and got an underwriter back then and launched. What in the early days in 1984, precisely was the Haggerty classic marine Insurance Agency. And an all they did was specialize in insuring wood boats until 1991. You know, as they were slowly growing, there was many owners of classic wooden boats that also had classic cars. And they're like, what could you do this? And so then that was what started into the classic car. And then of course now, you know, fast forward all these years later, we still do in Sherwood boats, but that's about 2% of the business. And this was all up in Traverse City, or it started in Traverse City in the basement of their house. You know, hand stuffing envelopes for the annual renewal is actually that houses less than three miles from where I'm sitting right now. And yeah, and so it's it's a fascinating beginning that that how this happened. And yeah, and so now, you know, fast forward, Harry is the largest insurer of classic collectible and enthusiast vehicles, and that that's from a global standpoint. And then in more recent years, we've really aggressively grown, our magazine, Haggerty, drivers club magazine and all the content that surrounds that. And then also, for more than a decade now have published the Haggerty price guide. So think of it, you know you're used to the Kelley Blue Book or the nada guide. This is the value valuation guide for the most commonly traded collector vehicles.

Rebecca Lindland  37:57  
So it's not a general market guide. It's just It's okay. But you do keep track though, of the of the market. And what's going on in the New And Used Car market? We

Unknown Speaker  38:09  
do we do. And we're always adding new vehicles to the Haggerty price guide. But it's it's focused on enthusiasts oriented vehicles. So there's vehicles that are brand new on there. But again, it's not your typical daily regular use vehicles. Right.

Rebecca Lindland  38:26  
So what do you think has been the biggest change, you know, during COVID? In terms of classic cars and in terms of collectibles? And has the market gone up or down or stagnant? Just tell us I'm really curious about that.

Unknown Speaker  38:40  
Well, the market is has been fascinating. So the biggest changes in this probably won't surprise any of us. It's people are driving more. So people have it specifically to their classic collector vehicles. You

Rebecca Lindland  38:55  
know, I think they're driving more for pleasure as opposed to for work.

Unknown Speaker  38:59  
Yeah, absolutely. You know, people, many people have found more time at home than then, you know, prior to this year. We could all agree to that. But you're thinking even in the depths of the shutdowns. In the early days of the pandemic, when when people were truly being isolated at home. If just think of your you know, a family so a married couple and maybe some kids still at home. And if all of a sudden both working spouses are now working from home and you're leaving the house once or twice a week and only whenever you are going to the grocery store. If you've got the minivan and the SUV and the Corvette sitting in the garage, it's just you What are you gonna take? You probably

Dan Roth  39:53  
I was gonna say yeah, the minivan to get the groceries

Sam Abuelsamid  40:00  
You take a scenic route to grocery store Yeah, 30 or 40 miles. countryside.

Dan Roth  40:06  
It's true, cuz it's like a look, you can only stare at the four walls for so long. And it's like this little bit of solace, especially if you're all kind of on top of each other. I don't know how big of a house you actually need to not feel like you're on top of each other, but I don't have it. So it's like, it's like driving or like the bathroom or the two times you get alone.

Unknown Speaker  40:29  
And there has been multiple studies, where were people select that, undeniably, the second most safest place they feel is in their car. So safe as they feel is in their home, that line to the second most secure places is in their own car. And if you're looking for an escape from the home, you're going to get your car and drive somewhere and and just drive somewhere for fun. So it in some ways, you know, despite all the turmoil with the pandemic, the fact that people have rediscovered the joy of just going for the Sunday drive or, you know, taking a more scenic route to destination. I think that's kind of a good thing for the car hobby that's gonna come out of this.

Rebecca Lindland  41:17  
Yeah, no, I mean, I remember I, having my my immediate car was a Bentley of all things. And there was no, there was no traffic, and we could go across the bridge, the Tappan Zee Bridge it five o'clock in the in the afternoon. I mean, it was amazing to not have any constraints on leaving your house, you know, when you left your house, it You didn't have to factor in ways anymore. And computer, you know, the commute and, and I loved it. I mean, I really, it's I'm thankful that, you know, people are coming back to work. But gosh, that was fun.

Unknown Speaker  41:54  
Yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, something, and we can dedicate an entire episode, just to what I'm about to say. But this is a trend that's been happening for the past five years or a little more, but it's continuing to accelerate is, you know, to your point, you had a Bentley as a press car. Modern brand new cars are just continue to get better and better. I mean, yes, there's little nuances that we can pick out to be continued to get better and better. And just before we started recording, we were debating, you know, the hypothetical, would you rather have a GT 350 or Gt 500 in a garage, they're both amazing cars, especially for what they cost, you know, the performance of the dollar. So what we have been watching, and, and witnessing, for several years now, the enthusiast side is, there's an awful lot of long time collectors, so people would have the vehicles you would expect to see in the garage as a muscle car from the 60s and 70s, some great European sports car, you know, throughout their life of these cars, and multiplied as they kind of get to, you know, post retirement years 234 of those cars are being sold, and they're buying one or two really cool modern performance cars, because they're just so good. Yeah, good. And they have a warranty, and they have working, air conditioning and all of that. And, and, you know, I the disclaimer I put out there, I'm not disparaging old cars at all. I mean, I I'm a huge diehard fan of old cars, the oldest I currently own is 1930. But modern cars are really darn good. Permanent luzia standpoint.

Sam Abuelsamid  43:40  
Yeah, they are. Yeah, when back last December, when Ford was doing the media drive for the GT 500. In Las Vegas, you were out there, you'd brought out the 67 Gt 500 from the Haggerty collection. And we went for a drive in that, you know, I had driving the, the the new GT 500 earlier that morning, and then we went out for, you know, for a short little drive in the 67. And it's, you know, as good as the 67 was, in its time, you know, compared to a modern car, you know, it's total, I mean, the brakes and the steering were terrible. You know, it wasn't anywhere near as fast. You know, and, you know, if he, you know, hit anything, you know, you likely die, but

Dan Roth  44:22  
Well, he's not exactly a river either, right. Like,

Unknown Speaker  44:26  
Oh, no, and it's heavy, too. Yeah.

Dan Roth  44:30  
I bet it looked and sounded pretty damn good, though. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  44:37  
You know, I still like driving those driving old cars. You know, it's, it's, it's not, you know, from a purely objective standpoint. Yeah, they're not anywhere near as good as a modern car. But, you know, from a from the subjective standpoint, in the visceral experience of driving a car like that, you know, it's something totally different,

Rebecca Lindland  44:58  
even when we were in your Miata. You know how we talked about this before you sit like the beltline is so much lower that I remember when I, when we first got on the highway, I was like, wow, I feel like I'm halfway out of the car. But it just added to the whole experience of being in that classic, you know, sports car kind of feel. And as opposed to like the Lexus lc 500, which is a gorgeous, gorgeous convertible. But you know, you're sitting even lower, or even, you know, the new Miata, I mean, which is, again, fabulous, but you sit lower in it. And so you don't have that same sort of feeling of really being exposed, you know, for better or for worse, but now the Miata, the original Miata is just such a classic still,

Unknown Speaker  45:49  
you're actually right. Yeah. Not only do you sit lower, but the but the, you know, the body, the beltline, it's hired, right, and it's all in mostly driven by the the superior crash test ratings that modern vehicles have, but it has shrunk and the greenhouse. Yeah, which you have, and it's nice cars and pillars are so much thicker, and that's why you have all these blind spot warning indicators. But yeah, you even get into a vehicle from the late 90s and early 2000s. Compared to new cars, you're like, wow, this is like a glass dome. Yeah.

Dan Roth  46:28  
My, my elbow is not in my ear. So I have a I have a question. And it's so first, do you guys do RV insurance?

Unknown Speaker  46:39  
We do that yet? Okay. Yes. Vintage RV. That is something that we have looked in and it is is something that will come in the future. Yeah. Cuz it gets mentioned to RV and that that's a growing trend.

Dan Roth  46:55  
Right. That's an especially now like I I found it really interesting to watch and, like everybody had this collective urge all at once. We're all just like, I want a damn RV.

Rebecca Lindland  47:08  
earlier point like That's right. Right. We're all trapped at home. Yeah.

Dan Roth  47:13  
And yeah, like everything is closed. So you got to stay here in Massachusetts. Like we were, we couldn't go to Maine they were they were closed unless we had tests and stuff like that. So you, you wind up going well, okay, I've got a quarantine somewhere. So you kind of want to just go somewhere else and still, you know, not necessarily take vacation but work from home. So everybody bought our V's this summer. Right? They were everybody was sold out. And then the idea of the the vintage RV was like, well, they're cool. They're really quaint on the inside, you can restore them and they they especially if it's something like an Airstream they still hold their value. So it's just I see it as a rising trend, and it just sort of took off this year.

Unknown Speaker  47:52  
Yeah, yeah. Well, and there's a one of the groups anyways, that has a pretty significant national footprint is are the tin can tourists? Yeah. You know, all the vintage RV years that meet up at different campgrounds and have Well, I would say cruises. I don't know if that's the proper term for forgive me if I Exactly. Anyway, but the thing is, is, you know, I've just had just us, you know, a circus introduction into that world. And you want to talk about a group of enthusiasts that takes the full experience, you know, not only do they have these, either wonderfully preserved or very well restored. Vintage RVs it's the furniture what they set out outside of their trailer. I mean, everything is very era appropriate. Some people are cooking recipes for the era

Dan Roth  48:57  
of spam.

Unknown Speaker  49:01  
margarine was revolutionary.

Dan Roth  49:06  
Mix the food killer and the GM RVs to the GM with the Turner powertrain, the front drive ones. Yes,

Unknown Speaker  49:17  
that is.

Dan Roth  49:19  
Yeah, so this is this a lot of cool stuff.

Sam Abuelsamid  49:21  
A neighbor down the street, who moved away last fall, actually bought or had one of those GMC motorhomes that they got a couple of years ago, it was in their driveway for a while. And I mean, those things are, I was from the time I was a kid. I always thought those were the coolest looking RVs and at one point actually had a Hot Wheels one of those.

Dan Roth  49:43  
Yeah. Rocks. I repeated it once when I was kid. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  49:46  
Yeah. They were really? Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker  49:51  
Yeah, no, and you know, they're not gigantic. You know, it's not a 45 foot motorcoach with a steerable tag axle.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:02  
So, you know, the first time you and I met Jonathan's A few years ago, when you were competing or participating in The Great Race stopped off here and in Ypsilanti on this this race from Florida to Traverse City and you were driving a really amazing car on that race the green dragon

Unknown Speaker  50:24  
the great dragon 1917 peerless. Yeah, whoo. Yeah with with a peerless VA so one of the early VA engines from a production us production car, and it was yes, absolutely love that car. It's so peerless. I don't know if you've heard this term, the three P's of luxury, but in the teens through the 20s that was if you caught a slang but the three P's of legendary referred to Packard peerless and care Sarah. So three American auto manufacturers that focus on luxury, peerless. They were they absolutely excelled, was in the mechanics. They put an awful lot of effort into that V eight engine that that came out in 1916. Certainly after Cadillacs v eight engine. They said it was a very well balanced, smooth running reliable VA. And the cars drove very well. What they did not focus on nearly as much as other luxury automakers at the time was styling. So a stock peerless automobile but it was pretty, you know, there was nothing extra ordinary about its styling. It looks like an awful lot of other cars on the road. But they were they were powerful. They were very reliable. They were smooth running. And, you know, I have to believe that of course, an awful lot of automakers died off shortly before the depression but the fact that they didn't put an emphasis on styling, especially through the 20s the exciting days of the roaring 20s certainly had to contribute to the demise but this this 1970s heroes thanks for a wonderful wonderful cross country rally car

Sam Abuelsamid  52:22  
seeing that thing you know, you're sitting Way up high completely out in the open in that thing. That would have been an amazing ride to go a couple of thousand miles and Yes,

Unknown Speaker  52:30  
yeah, you feel every every ounce of weather. But see, or at least for the four of us to see it but but yeah, but it's you know, the funny thing was is everything is all relative. So here's a car that's more than 100 years old, in The Great Race which is a cross country time speed distance endurance rally, and every day there was official one stop and overnight evening stops and of course they were draw crowds like what you saw Sam, and they A lot of people will come up and see this open cockpit. fingerless car and they say man, how fast does this thing go? And when I would say 65 they will be like what?

Dan Roth  53:22  
Listen, it feels like 300

Unknown Speaker  53:25  
Exactly.

Unknown Speaker  53:28  
You know, allegedly at 190 I never drove at 90 and i and i don't think unless I don't think I ever would drive at night

Unknown Speaker  53:39  
so yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  53:40  
so I'm sorry that

Unknown Speaker  53:44  
guys say is Yeah, it's so it's 80 horsepower 330 cubic inches 80 horsepower. Very torquey engine heavy flywheel low compression five and a half to one compression ratio so very low crank start it does have electric start you could crank start it but I very much appreciated electric starter and it works baggie died percent of the time well you

Dan Roth  54:12  
know the crank starting is like that's a that's a lost art you know, it's it's not just as simple as turning the crank you have to know where to set the timing and yes, set the throttle you have to know actually where where compression is because you it'll break your arm if you're not sure.

Unknown Speaker  54:28  
That's right, that's right so one of the cooler experiences and this absolutely was a bucket list thing for me So yeah, you can see the car here you see that V eight engine interestingly enough cast aluminum crankcase with cast iron cylinder jugs doesn't have a head it was a whole jug kind of like on a more recent snowmobile engine. But yeah, just a neat neat car. 33 inch wheels. And where is that all original paint And color. So where was no, so this car started out life as a passenger car, you know, probably a terrain or sedan body. And at some point in the 20s, it was converted into a board track racer, and not driven by anybody famous that we know of, or in any sort of famous race, it would be like any one of us, you know, modifying our late model Miata and doing some amateur racing, this was the equivalent in the 20s. And in the 30s, it was tucked away into a barn and then it sat in the barn until the late 80s. And the previous owner of this car, john Allensworth, great car collector down in hot springs village, Arkansas. He founded he was a he likes to do in these Cross Country Road rallies. And the racing body that was on it when he found it, which was really, really crude to begin with. It was just, it was too far gone. So that's a real body, everybody in the 90s. And it was customized to be a little bit more convenient for driving cross country a little bit more storage space. Of course, it's all relatively speaking, it still has hardly any storage space, but it has more than it would have. And, and but mechanically, that engine, the transmission, the chassis, that's all from 1917, and it was rebuilt.

Dan Roth  56:30  
That's cool. Wow.

Rebecca Lindland  56:32  
I love the leather straps to keep

Unknown Speaker  56:37  
my crane started I had a for me loving early early cars and early automotive history. I participated in the in the London Brighton veteran car run in England last November. And if you're not familiar with that event, it is the longest running motoring racing event. The newest the car can be is 1904. Oh my gosh, newest. They have a vehicle that you can enter it's 1904. And there was three of us that piloted a 1903 NOx kn o x. It was an American car built in Massachusetts. And it has has a single cylinder engine and so yes, that was you know talking about starting and knowing exactly where compression is and and but you certainly the sense of accomplishment if you do everything right it it lights off. The first career

Dan Roth  57:41  
was that a was that a Three Wheeler? Was that a four four wheel? It was a four wheeler it was but

Unknown Speaker  57:45  
it's still you know, this is the nickname horseless carriage. Yeah, it exists for a reason, because it looks like the horse just simply ran away.

Sam Abuelsamid  57:55  
literally looks like

Dan Roth  57:58  
No, I mean, the old the old stuff is cool. I remember the like, you know, the old marine ratchet engines that they didn't have a reverse gear, they you just spin it the other way. If you get good at it, you could bounce it off compression backwards. So if you wanted to go forward, just bounce the fly with and it would you know it did. They're neat toys. And so the old stuff is really, really fascinating. Well, so

Unknown Speaker  58:22  
it's an experience in itself.

Rebecca Lindland  58:24  
Yeah. Tell us a little bit about your year driving the Ford Model A as your daily driver.

Unknown Speaker  58:32  
Yeah. So

Dan Roth  58:35  
modern cars. Yeah, so

Unknown Speaker  58:47  
it's hard to believe that 10 years ago this month is when I when I started doing that. So from October of 2010, until October of 2011. I parked my modern vehicles and the only car that I drove daily for straight for under 65 days was a 1930 Ford Model a two door sedan and it was just before I turned 30 actually the day that I ended this 365 days was on my 30th birthday,

Rebecca Lindland  59:18  
which was October what I told her Oh, interesting. October 13.

Unknown Speaker  59:25  
Well, there you go. Yeah, it was some fellow liras here.

Unknown Speaker  59:33  
Yeah. And so kind of the whole reason for that was just just to kind of prove that all cars can be driven. They are reliable. And, and really, you know, you think back 10 years ago, there was just this exponential growth in television in outline programming for individuals car space that so much of it was focused On the sale of the vehicle, you know how to get you know how much something sold for or how much you could buy something and flip it for. And, of course, what makes for good television is, is the higher dollar figures, you know, six and seven figures and beyond, and I just kind of wanted to prove that, you know, he could do that you don't have to have $100,000 sitting in a checking account to go buy a vintage car. And so this was I bought it off of Craigslist, from an elderly couple in Indiana paid $11,000 for it, the whole idea was gonna buy a driver for you, and then sell it for the same amount of money. But then, of course, you put 17,000 miles on it, and have seven states and drive it every day for the winter. And, you know, we kind of bonded together, so it is still part of my world.

Rebecca Lindland  1:00:51  
But I also heard that you inspired a young man from Australia.

Unknown Speaker  1:00:55  
Well, I it's a, this has been a heartwarming part of it. And actually, I just recently received an email from a, from a I guess he'd be 22. Now young guy from Germany, saying he said, I was 12 years old, when you did the 365 days of and I read your blog. My parents did not support my interest in old cars. But he just bought in Germany, a 1930 a model a and he's driving years later. And I thought I mean it just like when I got that when I received that email, and I just received I haven't actually responded to them. I I mean, it actually kind of I choked up, it's just like, Oh my gosh, like, it was just all about sharing the experience of it sounds cliche, but sharing the experience of life in the slow lane. You know, taking taking the more scenic interesting route to get to your destination and you know, kind of taking time to enjoy the world around you. Because the world at 47 miles an hour is a lot different than 75. And the reason I say 47 is because 47 miles an hour was the absolute sweet spot for that car, all the sounds and vibrations harmonize if

Dan Roth  1:02:15  
I was to say I took up when I get read your email to because you know somebody read the thing I wrote this. But you know that the a is it's one of those things that you know, people feel really far away from the older cars. And I think one of the things that that drives that is stuff like the Model T was made for so long. But really once you get into the 30s, the cars are quite, quite similar to what you'd expect. Now this I mean, there's a few different controls, but especially a late 30s car. It's not not really all that alien to to what we're driving today.

Unknown Speaker  1:02:53  
Yeah, they are a by the simplest definitions, they are conventional automobile. Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right and interested in here's another fun subject that would be fun to talk about with with a mix of the four of us is your right. I mean, the fundamental similarities are all there. But you know, one of the things that that we've done for it'll be 10 years in 2021 and Haggerty is this what's called a heavy driving experience where we go around to different venues around the country, we teach young drivers how to drive manual transmission. And not only that, we teach them how to drive manual transmission in vintage cars so kind of give them you know, that dual experience and it's on a closed course and it's it's meant to be introductory, this is how a clutch works is how you take off. I'm gonna start with the clutch and it's slow speed. But it's been fascinating over the past decade of being involved in these events of witnessing 16 1718 year old so you know, new drivers, and even just vocabulary like young people, you don't start the car. You don't start the engine. You turn it on. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:04:13  
You push the button. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:04:15  
And that's what they're all driving in most cases and that's their own experience. And, and and I started because I you know again, we're doing this event and vintage car so we usually have a 63 Corvette Model A has been used in a lot of them. You know, but you know, all vintage cars and of course people as they're learning if this is their first time they're inevitably going to stall at some point. And so you talk them through Okay, started up again. And they just, they just blip The, the the ignition switch as if you were pushing the button. Are you gonna

Dan Roth  1:04:53  
take secure as the starter on the floor, right? Yes, that's even a whole nother

Unknown Speaker  1:05:00  
But there's like, No, no, you got to hold to the start. So then they hold it until the hold the key until he starts but then they over on the starter. So

Dan Roth  1:05:10  
it's got to dig into your thumb and then you gotta let it go. And you got to make sure you're there with the gas so that you feather the pedal. So

Unknown Speaker  1:05:16  
that's right. And so yeah, it's, uh, you know, this concept of starting the engine, isn't there? Because even if you know, you take a, you know, I, my my daily driver since 2012, f 150, as far as my winter vehicle here in Northern Michigan. And yes, it has you still stick a key into the ignition timer return it, but it's, you know, when you turn the heat at the start position, you're basically just requesting of the computer that it started the engine? I mean, it does it for you, you know, you're not going to overrun the starter, or anything like that. So no faulty young people, they don't have the experience of the concept of starting an engine.

Dan Roth  1:05:57  
Yeah, well, I think that's that's an important point, you just said like no fault to them, it's like, because that's one of the things that I've seen in the hobby sort of my, my entire time of being an enthusiast, you know, coming up through the 80s, there was always that division on the cars that are now i'm sure are quite hot, you're starting to see, but especially with the rise of events, like radwood, a lot of stuff from the late 70s through late 90s, a lot more popular going for a lot bigger prices, because those are the things that that we could afford. And there was that exclusivity where it was only sock ops and you know, 57 Chevy's and so, all this stuff is cool, but, you know, the stuff that we have, I have direct experience with like, I find it's weird that you can collect a rapt audience, just talking about the crappy beater you had. Because you know all the ins and outs of it and you know, people are like, how do you know this stuff? I'm like I had to I bought a $500 car, man, I had to put it on the road. It was a piece of crap. It broke all the time.

Unknown Speaker  1:07:06  
Yeah, when I was

Unknown Speaker  1:07:09  
when I turned 16 and 98. And I grew up on a in a farming family in Northern Illinois, big Ford family. I always wanted a Mustang but I couldn't afford the Mustang that I wanted. And so what I ended up with was the closest thing I could even come was a 91 Mercury Cougar that had the five o in it, you know, so it was it was my total core, poor man's Mustang.

Dan Roth  1:07:33  
Hey, it had that big form of roofline, you're getting

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:38  
12 independent rear suspension and everything.

Unknown Speaker  1:07:41  
That's right. And so cash I guess it was three years ago now. I was I stumbled across like I was not searching for it. But I stumbled across a trade in a Chrysler dealer down in Norco, Detroit. Have a 91 Cougar LS with the five oh, that had 35,000 miles on it, and it'll never been driven was new. Yeah, someone bought this. And I'll tell the story, you know, the salesperson probably listened to this, but they were asking $8,000 for it. And I called up and asked to talk to the used car sales manager. And, and, and of course, he gives you what tells you what you would expect to hear and oh, it's the cleanest thing you've ever seen. And this is gonna be a collector and it looks great. And I said I am I'm gonna offer you 20 $500

Unknown Speaker  1:08:44  
and he said, Yeah, that was his reaction. He's just like,

Unknown Speaker  1:08:49  
you know, and I just had one this car lives in this car is kind of in purgatory, or it lives in, in in, you know, this, like, no person's land because collectors are not seeking out 91 mercury cougars.

Dan Roth  1:09:03  
They're not rare. They're not rare.

Unknown Speaker  1:09:05  
And someone who is in the market for an $8,000 use car does not want something that doesn't have anti lock brakes that does not have airbags. Yeah. So yes, there's one idiot out there that wants this car and you're talking to him and he says, And so of course, you know, he just thought I was crazy. And I thought he was crazy. And so we ended as friends and and about every six weeks I would give the same salesperson a call. And I would reaffirm my offer.

Dan Roth  1:09:35  
just sell it.

Unknown Speaker  1:09:39  
Like always someone from Ohio is coming up to look at it.

Unknown Speaker  1:09:44  
So fast forward to the to November. This is still on the line. Of course they had slowly started dropping the price. And he actually called me says hey, we're down to 4500 What do you think? We're getting close. We're only two grand apart. And the ending of the story is the week of Thanksgiving, I went down and picked it up, I came up $500 I bought it for $3,000. But I don't know if you get if the cameras gonna allow but yeah radwood Detroit, and in 2019 last year, that's awesome with a screen pop of an ID one Mercury Cougar, which is an example of what my first car was. I just

Dan Roth  1:10:28  
I just love that. There's that room that space being created for the inclusivity. And for for folks to share, you know, there's the older guy. So I found this when I was 2025 years ago, when I was much younger, we we had a really hacked together friend of mine had a hack together t bucket that was not like the other t buckets, it actually had a 12 a rotary in it, it was much smaller, it was freakin terrifying. But you parked it among all of the other tea buckets that were mostly built out of a catalog. And the old guys would look at it and say, well, what's that and so, you know, I'm explaining I got Well, I you know, we needed headlights, because we're gonna drive it around here at night, and it didn't have any headlights. So I had to put a relay and it's I'm just, you know, explaining all the sudden, you know, so then they got to sharing and so that, that opportunity to sort of share across generations is really, I think key to the, to the experience of older cars. And I hope that that we can continue to be inclusive versus, you know, some of the sort of walls that go up around stuff. I mean, I love the 60s and 70s you know, muscle cars as much as anybody but there's, there's a lot to like in any different period.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:44  
And I think so these recent events, so we so here at radwood that's what we've been talking about, I think is an excellent example of the types of events that are gonna continue to thrive because, yes, it is a car show, but it is it really is a

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:05  
cultural thing.

Unknown Speaker  1:12:06  
It's a cultural thing. And it's like Shelley and I when we drove the cougar from Traverse City down to down to Detroit for that radwood event. You know, we we like really got into it as far as where our output was going to be. Oh, yeah. Dress up. And by the way, I never dressed to the extreme in the 90s

Dan Roth  1:12:32  
Yes, you did.

Unknown Speaker  1:12:34  
The big shoulder bag.

Unknown Speaker  1:12:38  
I want like four to remember when it was like

Unknown Speaker  1:12:42  
it was like just a noxious brand labels. Yeah. So I went ga

Unknown Speaker  1:12:49  
Tommy Hilfiger.

Unknown Speaker  1:12:51  
I had a pair of Tommy Hilfiger

Unknown Speaker  1:12:55  
cut off overalls or bib overalls, so of course, you know, with a one strap.

Dan Roth  1:13:01  
Yeah, one strap down.

Unknown Speaker  1:13:03  
And a button down long sleeve Tommy Hilfiger shirt with way too many long Rosada and Tommy sighs tiny shoes.

Unknown Speaker  1:13:14  
did not have the pager in the side.

Unknown Speaker  1:13:21  
He was dressed similarly,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:13:23  
similarly, but

Unknown Speaker  1:13:25  
it was just fun. You know? And this is a this is a for profit event. You know that the the organizers that had created it and run it. It's you know, it's their business and they've been successful at it. And you know, cuz So, so long for all of us. Growing up the idea of a car show was you went to some local park on a Saturday afternoon. It was you know, there was the crane Dolly against the bumper. 37 Chevy, Chantilly lace is playing in the background. You know, you just had it was just like this playbook of what a car show was

Dan Roth  1:13:57  
and the science they don't touch. Yeah, exactly.

Unknown Speaker  1:14:00  
Don't touch all the car owners sit in a lawn chair and match to their car all day that have their ears how horrible it was when I started and here it is now and the mirrors underneath. And yeah, and that's, that's fine for someone who really truly enjoys that aspect of it. But to me, I love like the radwood events. Yes, the cars are a lot of fun. It was fun driving to the event. But there's just a light hearted casualness, mixed with a sense of humor. And again, it was more of this cultural thing.

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:35  
It's less about how much the car is worth and more about the memories associated with that. Exactly.

Dan Roth  1:14:40  
Yeah, there are a lot of scruffy cars at at Redwood and that's not not a pejorative, like I like the scruffy cars, you know, because

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:50  
the stories are so much better. Oh,

Dan Roth  1:14:52  
and that's what we drove. You know, I didn't ever the nicest cars we drove by, I mean I graduated high school in 95. So the nicest stuff I got to drive was my parents cars, and they were no fun, you know? But now if I saw when I'd be like, oh my god at 93 tiempo GLS.

Unknown Speaker  1:15:11  
Yeah. Oh, we had a temple, my family.

Rebecca Lindland  1:15:14  
We had a bozo Beale. I want to say it was in the 70s. I think it was. I'm trying remember exactly what my dad bought it. And it was. It was mint green with a white top and white leather interior

Dan Roth  1:15:28  
sounds like a late 70s.

Unknown Speaker  1:15:32  
And omega Well, I guess that was an No, I

Rebecca Lindland  1:15:35  
think it was. I think it was in the 70s. I remember crying when he bought that car. Like physically actually crying. I don't think it had anything to do with the fact that I was really tired. But I remember I remember crying in the backseat. And then Don't you know that that was like my my car. And you know, when I turned 16 that I then had to drive High School. You know, with the really cool Welton lacrosse team players that my brother was on. I'll watching David's little sister arrive and my mint green. Awful. Most of y'all we I

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:11  
got a green 73 Dodge Dart sport.

Rebecca Lindland  1:16:16  
Sport

Unknown Speaker  1:16:19  
73 when they were trying to figure out what to do, they had to throw things like sport. Now, to be fair, yeah, I know, it sounds like I was making fun of the 50s style Car Show. But for a long time, the people taking the cars in the car show they were living somewhat of this similar experience as what we are experiencing going to Redwood. You know, it was just you know, the people who did remember the vehicles from the 50s in the 57, Chevy's and all of that, it's just that for so long, that seemed to define what a car show was. And it is neat to see that, yes, those are still existing and they serve an important purpose. But there are more opportunities and more experiences for people to like different types of cars.

Dan Roth  1:17:07  
Well, I think to it comes back to the fact that like they were meant to be driven and it's a shame to see him parked on the lawn, I like to see them out and about, that's what makes vintage racing so cool. You get to see these things getting getting, you know, used like 100% and, you know, I mean from from your perspective, like look, put an insurance policy on it is just a car like, joy.

Unknown Speaker  1:17:27  
They're meant to be driven cars are happiest when they're driven. Yes, once in a while. unfortunate things happen. But it's, that's okay. You know, there's there's a that that's, that's why the insurance side of Haggerty exists, you know, but but we'd rather see him all be driven.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:44  
Well, and one of the interesting things about Haggerty that I learned from you is about you know sometimes when unfortunate things happen to those cars, they end up in Haggard's possession like that 61 fury, and then they get restored. You know, tell us about that. Are you

Dan Roth  1:18:02  
just like harvesting car

Unknown Speaker  1:18:06  
it would be it would be easy to think that but

Dan Roth  1:18:08  
It'd be a shame if something happened. Serial Number one.

Unknown Speaker  1:18:19  
What Sam is referring to is we have this has been going on for close to a decade now, what we call an employee Restoration Program. So there's always at least one restoration taking place at our garage and Traverse City as well as we've got an office with about 300 employees in Golden Colorado and there's a graduate there as well, that any employee if they want to during the working day can sign up and go take part of this restoration. So there are we do have skilled trained restoration technicians that mentor and Shepherd this process. But the whole idea is you have an awful lot of employees that come in and they don't have a car background and but every person that they're interacting with whether it's on the phone or over email, this is a part of that person's life. And so this is our way of introducing them in to what it takes to restore and properly maintain these cars. And so to what Sam was referring to over the years, there have been times that we have that we have purchased a total vehicle because we use it as a training exercise and so I gave you two examples on one of them was a 69 Camaro RS with the I'm sorry, ss with 396 and it was for speed is beautiful car orange and black biotop and the kind of a sad story the owner was take that out for its first drive in the in the springtime and you know it's got that gauge cluster in front of the shifter. The center console, release four gauges down there. And he was staring at the gauges and made sure everything was okay and was in a pretty significant accident ran into the back of something else. Fortunately, this person was okay. But it totaled the car.

Unknown Speaker  1:20:16  
And

Unknown Speaker  1:20:18  
you know, what total is a vehicle is it from an insurance standpoint, and this is true across the board is the cost it is to repair it relative to the vehicles value. So there's ever any plug out there from an insurance standpoint or collect a card Do not ever under insure, because if it comes time to be in total, the total told it's all based on what it's going to cost relative to the current value. But if you know if this Camaro was a several hundred thousand dollar or multi million dollar vehicle, same level of damage, you'd fix it, because even if it costed five, cost 500,000 or more to fix it, if it's a multi million dollar vehicle, it makes sense. And so we brought it in to use it as a training exercise specifically for the folks in our claims team of what it takes to repair a badly damaged car. And typically what happens in a vehicle that is approaching half a century old is at the time when we restored it is it was also had been somewhat of an accident in another time in his life from the rear end, if I see if you find it poorly repaired. Yeah. So you know, there was nothing You know, this is the type of car that he drove and straight down the road, it would leave four tracks. But those are real world situations that people in the in the collector cars Face Face. And so that's again, that's a good learning exercise for us. And so the theory, the SAM referenced, this is a sad story from the livestream. It was a wonderfully restored car, someone's pride and joy. And the house that lived in was a coastal home in New Jersey, and Superstorm Sandy or Hurricane Sandy, which is what, five, six years ago now? Or more? It was, yeah, more than eight years ago. Yeah, it was flooded up above the door handles in salt water, you know, because it was, you know, quite with a flood surge. And so when you if somebody asked the question was it take to restore a vehicle that's been submerged in salt water? And the answer is you got to take it down to the bare body shell and which we did put it on a rotisserie and send it down to a company in Detroit and they dipped it, you know, put it in a chemical bath that neutralize, you know, every little speck of where salt would have been and then we rebuilt it from there. And again, it was a training exercise. So, so no, we're not in the business of harvesting sunlight. But once a year, you know, seen what does happen and you know, we're talking several thousand examples. We we do use it as a learning exercise because again, especially a claims team, they're interacting with people that are dealing with these types of situations all day long.

Dan Roth  1:23:18  
I think for the claims folks who is and the adjusters they have to have a good idea of what they're looking at which, you know, that's got to be a little different with the sort of varied nature of older cars as well or you know, the sort of collector of vintage car market,

Unknown Speaker  1:23:36  
it is anything getting complicated, especially when it comes to sourcing replacement parts. Depending on the vehicle kind of vehicles parts are readily available, rare vehicles, it can become a challenge and of course you hope to find either a really good original example of whatever component you need or when it when it needs to happen. Yeah. You pay to have the piece fabricated. And, and the good news is that that can happen. I mean, literally anything can be made.

Dan Roth  1:24:10  
Do you have an example of like something unobtainium that you you managed to get made?

Unknown Speaker  1:24:17  
Well, 3d printing technology has really, really opened up a lot of avenues for that. So when it comes to body panels, a skilled metal shaper can make any buy panel. So you just have to know who the good ones are. But, you know, 10 years ago before 3d printing really started to become more prevalent like it is now, what became difficult was various trim pieces, especially if it was interior components, you know, Bakelite or early plastics? Yeah. And rare cars, radio knobs and climb. Yeah, exactly. You know, if the car had suffered Minor fire damage, for example, and you were at a source all of these little detailed interior parts, that really could become troublesome. And now, a lot of that stuff can either the part itself can be 3d printed, or you 3d print the part to then make the casting for whatever that part is. So you know an example, how here's one that that comes to mind, there was a client of ours that had a Lincoln Zephyr patch that was already one, just before they shut down, it might be actually even better for you to bottle but don't don't I can be wrong, but it was, it was one of the last before they shut down for the wartime production of World War Two. And

Unknown Speaker  1:25:51  
it had this very intricate

Unknown Speaker  1:25:55  
emblem on the side at both sides of the hood. That is, and this is either said Lincoln or Zephyr, maybe even said both. But again, it was not available. There was not enough of these cars. There's not any companies making them aftermarket. And this was a it was custom made at a machine shop. Now, he just did with with CAD drawings and the machinery that's there. It's really is it's opened up a lot of areas that even a decade ago, were more challenging. Now what's going to be interesting, if we look out 25 3040 years from now, looking at today's cars, with how sophisticated they are, from a technology standpoint, is not so much the hardware, but the software programming that it takes to run today's cars. If someone doesn't keep it, or doesn't release that programming. that'll become a challenge.

Rebecca Lindland  1:26:58  
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. It's like Who knows? COBOL right on the head. Right when they had to update well think about all the government systems when everyone started to apply for unemployment. The systems were so outdated. They were literally pulling in people from retirement that cabal. Yeah. Right.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:20  
McLaren is a great example, you know, the f1 they only built 106 of those. And you know, it had electronic engine controls. You know, it was a relatively early example of that and had some pretty sophisticated electronics for the time. Yeah. And, you know, McLaren has to keep a stock of old, you know, 1990s era Compaq laptops on hand, just so they can run the software to interface with this thing. When they when the cars have to come in for service?

Rebecca Lindland  1:27:50  
Yeah. Like also keep the programmers you know, old, decrepit, as well.

Unknown Speaker  1:27:57  
But it really is, um, and I don't know, and maybe there are people out there that are that are thinking long term. But I'm not aware of it yet. But yeah, it's some point. People are going to be seeking out different software programming that and especially if it was for a more mass produced vehicle. I mean, these animators spent millions of dollars developing. So yeah, no person to recreate on their own.

Unknown Speaker  1:28:24  
That'll be a challenge.

Rebecca Lindland  1:28:26  
You're right, because it's circuit boards, and then understanding I mean, it's just the hardware and the software, right, is recreating the hardware where it's needed, and then reprogramming the software. And you're absolutely right. That's something that we you don't have to do in a 1990s kind of car or anything else like that. Yeah, I'm sorry if you can hear my cat.

Unknown Speaker  1:28:49  
I'm used to that. Look in the background. Right. She usually come You know, if I'm on a zoom call about 334 o'clock in the afternoon, she usually comes in to yell at me. So

Unknown Speaker  1:29:02  
yeah, exactly.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:07  
You know, another area that Haggerty is expanded into in the last decade is content production. You know what it? The the automotive journalism business has been a tough one over the last several years, you know, a lot. A lot of great writers have lost their jobs, you know, some of the old buck books. And a lot of them have ended up working for Haggerty, you know, talk about that.

Unknown Speaker  1:29:31  
Yeah, it's so you know, what is now the Haggerty drivers club magazine in the subscription as far as the number of people received each issue in their mailbox about 650,000. And then of course, we've got the digital side of it. But you know, this started well, I've been at it for 13 years and so a little bit before that, so about 15 years ago, it literally wasn't quarterly newsletter that went out to people who paid for it wasn't just insurance clients, but people who had what at the time was called agri plus, which was essentially a roadside assistance program in addition to the hiree, to their insurance policy, and that newsletter grew into, for a while it was a quarterly magazine, and we've increased the number of issues a year and also other publications, we produce what's called the Haggerty Insider. And that's all very focused on the market side of the industry. And what has been an awful lot of it's been fun. It's been educational for us. But what is different about the model how we have grown This is so those 650,000 people that receive that magazine, each issue at their home, we know exactly what is in their garage. And we know exactly. I mean, there's no generalized readership surveys, there's no, you know, like that, it's just so that is what has been unique about Harry's content efforts within the automotive space. And it is just in we're gonna continue to grow it. We see a lot of opportunity there. But that being said, you know, it, we were recognized, it's been a challenging time for the larger media industry. And we don't want to be the only ones. You know, we we think it's it's healthy and vibrant for multiple publications to still exist.

Dan Roth  1:31:47  
I think, really, the best way for other publications to exist is you just got to help them You got it, you got to tell us where the money is. So it either writers,

Rebecca Lindland  1:31:58  
no, but it is cool to see how Haggerty especially in the last few years, it seems, has really evolved. And really and almost modernized and stayed so relevant. I mean, I feel like I you know, in the last just even three years, really four years that it's that you guys have really expanded into the into all the right places and into places that people need advice need insights need guidance i n. And it's been really exciting to see because it's it's such a it's a name that I think a lot of us have always known in the industry. But it was also if I don't have a cost of car. I don't need Haggerty services. But now it seems like really there's so much more that you guys do how many people actually work for Haggerty, because you threw out that 300 person number in Golden. Was that part of RPM, or is that?

Unknown Speaker  1:32:53  
Right? Oh, so we have so globally, we're just shy of 1500 employees? Wow, I did not realize it was that large? Yeah, about 900 in Michigan, between Traverse City and in Arbor, we and we have an office of about 300 employees in Golden Colorado, we have a relatively new office in Dublin, Ohio, and an office in north of Toronto, and office, north of London in the UK and then a small team in Germany. And so yeah, that's just that's kind of so yeah, 1500 people, and then there's a handful of people in home base offices throughout North America, right in specific territory. And of course, now we we find ourselves and this current state where we've kind of everyone's kind of proved to the world that you can work remotely, so that that footprints probably going to change, you know, won't just be limited to where we have actual physical real estate.

Unknown Speaker  1:33:54  
But you know, to your point earlier, Rebecca is

Unknown Speaker  1:33:58  
when I first joined the company, it was it was a very conscious decision that was on the table. Because you know, Hungary's business there it's it's got it started insurance be in this niche insurance industry filling the need that wasn't there at the time. And the company was at the point where there was kind of this decision, do explore other avenues in the insurance space. So get into daily transportation vehicles get into homeowners get into other areas or in the decision, and I'm very thankful for it was no we're going to stay intensely focused and the enthusiast space and every decision is going to be focused around helping people get the most enjoyment out of cars that they choose to want to have fun with. And so you know, it was that type of mindset that that lended itself to what is now there, the price guide or the hundred evaluation tools online to grow the magazine to do A lot of the other stuff that Harry's done, it's all been around the enthusiast space. And, you know, and let, there's many, many companies that are focused on the standard insurance market and they're good at what they do. That's, that's not our interest.

Rebecca Lindland  1:35:13  
And that's so cool. I love that.

Unknown Speaker  1:35:16  
So no, it's been I mean, for a Carnot like me, it's I mean, I went to school to restore cars and and that's my, that's my hobby is you know, I love tinkering in the garage and the evenings and weekends and, and, but yeah, this is a it's been a great company to be with. That's awesome.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:35:35  
All right. Well,

Rebecca Lindland  1:35:36  
I just I have one or two more questions, though. And so I do understand that you've bought a rather interesting house that was owned by a woman that liked red cars. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your the the remnants of the Waldo plaques?

Unknown Speaker  1:35:59  
Oh my gosh,

Unknown Speaker  1:36:01  
I dug deep one text

Rebecca Lindland  1:36:17  
message

Unknown Speaker  1:36:23  
Well, okay, this this will explain

Unknown Speaker  1:36:27  
the problems that run around my head so so yeah, so it'll be two years in November purchased a house that I moved into and the property The house was built. 91 but what what motivated this purchase was, it has a pole barn, and a 30 by 40 call barn which at the time, I thought, Oh, this would be perfect. It's all over me.

Dan Roth  1:36:48  
I never feel that

we're building another one.

Unknown Speaker  1:36:58  
The first one I was touring in the house was it was very well cared for. But it was it was outdated. It was as it was built and anyone and like I like to tell people picture your grandmother building a house in 91 and that's what it looks like. And but when I was in the basement taking a tour there's just a small part of the basement is somewhat finished with drywall. And I had never seen more nails and a wall the nail holes and I'm like, Why in the world would they have down here but you know, whatever. didn't think anything of it. Well, I didn't find out until well after the fact that purchased the house and spent six months doing cosmetic remodeling on stock just to get a pole barn is too small now. But I ended up meeting the son of the the elderly couple that I had purchased it from and he's a he's a car guy. But yeah, it was no it was his mother more so than his father. They had 12 read forums

Dan Roth  1:38:02  
once or like in successfully

Unknown Speaker  1:38:04  
all at once all at once and all of the nails and the nail holes and they were in the basement was in they every weekend in the summer months they were going to some type of car show some type of cruise and or whatever. And you know they are in it for the trophies of the plaques and wow, that's what all those nails were it was every plaque and a breech trophy every for all of those 12 cars. And I have since been to so the son he purchased the majority of the vehicles from his parents. And so this collection of red Fords still exists. And it's it's an interesting variety. I mean, it's a first generation Mustang a handful of Thunderbirds a galaxy to you know, a 95 Thunderbirds supercruise. supercharged, you know, the Mach one Mustang was in early 2000s oh 304 Yeah, so all all rad, you know, and But anyways, he and his parents are still alive. They're quite elderly in assisted living, but you as a tribute to them. He organized all those plaques and all those trophies and hung them in his storage building and I saw it I'm laughs I'm like,

Unknown Speaker  1:39:22  
Wow.

Unknown Speaker  1:39:25  
This many plaques

Unknown Speaker  1:39:28  
That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, no. So anyways, yeah, so this this place has a legacy of fun old cars. That's awesome.

Rebecca Lindland  1:39:44  
Thank you for sharing that.

Unknown Speaker  1:39:47  
Yeah, no, this is fun. Thank you.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:39:49  
Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Jonathan has been great.

Unknown Speaker  1:39:53  
Absolutely know and love to come back. There's there's all sorts of fun topics the four of us can talk about it. Absolutely.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:39:58  
Definitely. Have you been

Unknown Speaker  1:40:00  
That'd be great. All right, we'll see you all next time. Hopefully we'll see you in person here at some point.

Dan Roth  1:40:06  
Oh, yeah, hopefully What's that about? Does it for Episode 166 wheel bearings now you know where to find us. So keep the feedback coming and we'll see everybody next time. Bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai