Dan Roth  0:04  
This is wheel bearings. I'm Dan Roth from Forbes.

Sam Abuelsamid  0:08  
I'm Sam Abuelsamid. From guidehouse insights

Rebecca Lindland  0:11  
on a very frazzled Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives. 

Dan Roth  0:14  
were gathered once again for a Sunday episode, wheel bearings, the grace of proper cornering lines, the love and horsepower and communion of enthusiasm be with you all. Let us now acknowledge our sins Actually, let's not acknowledge our sins, if they ever knew, unless

Sam Abuelsamid  0:33  
unless they are beyond the statute of limitations, correct, anyway, or, or you're planning to run for public office, either feel?

Dan Roth  0:42  
Welcome to the church of wheel bearings. Anyway, let's, let's talk about what we're driving. So Sam, you Genesis God,

Sam Abuelsamid  0:52  
I did, I had the it's the new 21 model year gap. So this is, you know, an all new vehicle, it's, it's no new platform, it's been redesigned. You know, like the last GT, it's, it has that fastback sedan kind of profile to it. But it now, you know, it fully incorporates the the latest Genesis design language, you know, which means oversized grill, which I can do without, but you know, things like the the light, the lights, the lighting, both on the front and the rear end, they've gone to this twin, horizontal, slim twin horizontal bar. Look, that, you know, I think looks really sharp, you know, so it's the same thing that we've seen on the refresh g 90 last year, excuse me, and also on the new g v 80. And to a somewhat lesser degree on the refresh g 70. That recently launched for 2021, as well. So this, this new platform that this thing is riding on is the same platform, it's they call it the M three platform within Hyundai Motor Group. It's the same platform that's shared with the gV 80, which we talked about a couple of weeks ago, which is the SUV. So really, you can think of the GVA as more of a tall wagon gap moreso than than an SUV. But I mean, that's what crossovers are an alloy anyway, it's just they're tall wagons. So you know, this, you know, this has all the same hardware, same basic architecture, obviously rides lower, because it's a sedan, but you know, same, same kind of interior design, the same dashboard, and everything, which, for the most part is great. You know, really love the look of this thing both inside and outside. You know, the detail and the finishing materials is fantastic. But there is the one flaw that we talked about previously, which is the central controller rotary controller for the infotainment system. as we as we talked about before, unlike other systems like I drive, and Mazda's controller, it doesn't sit up above the console, it's actually mounted flush in the console. And what you have is a knurled ring. That rotates, you put your finger on it, and you can spin it around, you can you can also toggle it left, right up down like a joystick. And it looks really fantastic. But the problem is that knurling on the that surface, you know, that gives, it's supposed to give you some traction, so you can rotate it, it's not really quite, it doesn't have quite enough texture to it. And so what ends up happening is you because you can it's also rocker, you know, left, you know to select stuff and move up and down and menus and across the screen. It you end up, oftentimes, you have to push down hard enough on it, unless your finger has an extra amount of texture or you're using some stick gum or something on your fingertip.

Dan Roth  4:03  
He's one of those things for sorting.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:06  
Yeah, maybe, maybe maybe a little rubber. Fix your piano

Rebecca Lindland  4:09  
player with really strong hands.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:12  
Well, it's not so much that you need strong hands, but it's just the amount of force that you have to apply to, to get it to rotate. You know, if you if you don't have enough traction with your fingertip, if your fingertip is too smooth, and you don't have quite enough traction, then oftentimes you end up you know, rocking the thing and making a selection instead of just rotating it. And yeah, after after driving the gv ad for a couple of hours, you know, I thought well, I'll give it a chance. You know, once I've had had a chance to use it a little bit longer and you know, after a full week with the G ad. It's I think it's still not good enough they need to change the texture on that, that one component on all the other stuff where you actually have the like the shifter, the rotary shifter is just behind it and that actually sticks up and you know, things like Like the turn signal stocks and the wiper controls, they have the exact same texturing on there. But because of the nature of the way that infotainment controller is set up where it's flush in the console, and you do have to press down on it with some force to get enough grip to rotate it, you often end up you know, hitting the switches and toggling something that you didn't want to. And so I think that that's, that needs a little more refinement, they need to change the the texturing

Dan Roth  5:30  
on that particular piece. Well, the key as we worship at the altar of automobile enthusiasm is to be free from want. And so you're never going to need to use the controller.

Rebecca Lindland  5:42  
Oh, anyway, I had the same experience because I also had the I had the G 80. Elbow, that's not my primary vehicle I want to talk about but I, I still have another vehicle I want to talk about, but I had the same issues with it. And in true engineering form, Sam, you have dialed down, get it drilled down to to the actual problem, which in, which is that you end up selecting things in the infotainment system that you didn't want. And it's funny because I remember, on my drive, in New York City, there was a lot of feedback that people gave about the infotainment system. And I'm wondering if it's actually more that, like, I didn't find that controller to be intuitive. But because it didn't do the things I wanted it to do, it didn't spin when I wanted it to spin and it didn't, like I wanted to press on it and have it just have that have the push down but push down activation, then select whatever the cursor was on. And it didn't always do that. And I think that that I think it is a function of the design of it. I that, that traction that you may not get. And just it ended up being really frustrating. Now, I will say that in my week with the vehicle last week, it does have touchscreen, which I know you'd hate. But it was easier for me to use the touchscreen touchscreen.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:14  
I didn't Yes, the touchscreen.

Rebecca Lindland  7:15  
Okay, it's a touchscreen. Yeah. So it's a long reach. So it's not ideal.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:20  
It's a 14 inch screen.

Rebecca Lindland  7:22  
Right? So it's quite a long reach. But touchscreen is an option. They're available. I mean, it's it's, you can also use touchscreen. So I was able to get most of what I wanted done through the touchscreen mechanism because that rotary flat rotary disc just was so annoying to use.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:44  
Yeah. So you know, and the other thing that does work well, on this vehicle is the voice control system, they do have a good voice record. Yes, thank you. And, you know, one of the things that's, that's interesting about this, this new platform, both both the the G 80. And gV 80. You know, they have all the same hardware in there. And last week, Nvidia announced that they are actually providing the, the chip that powers this whole system, it's based on their, their Parker system on a chip system, which is that's actually the the processors that they used in their original drive PX platform development platform for automated driving development. And it's it's the chip that was used in the original iteration of Tesla's version two autopilot. So it's a very powerful chip. And and you can tell, you know, the, the graphics, you know, on the screen, the interface looks great. I mean, very hard. Question. Yeah, it's very attractive to look at it, you know, the, the system runs smoothly, it never stutters, it's, it's very responsive. So, and, you know, the voice recognition actually works really well on this thing. Because, you know, again, it's powered by this by quite a quite powerful chip, which is great. But, you know, it's just the, the physical interaction through that controller, I think is is flawed. And, you know, I think it's, it's a, it's a problem that can be fixed fairly easily, it's just a matter of, you know, they have to change the the texturing on that surface, I think too. So you have a little more natural traction with less with less force on the controller. And then you know, when you do press harder, then you can use it to select and toggle.

Rebecca Lindland  9:29  
So almost emboss it more, right, like make it more of a dramatic because I'm trying to think of like how you don't really want to change the look of it and the integration, but just that that the rim, if you will like that area where your fingers are touching that touch point that needs to just have more pronounced feel to it.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:54  
Yes, exactly.

Dan Roth  9:55  
So I've been trying to look for photos I was I had the G 90 this is it different, I think I can't remember having the same. Yes, it is.

Rebecca Lindland  10:03  
Yeah, this is coming out in the GB ad and the G 84.

Dan Roth  10:07  
So it's not it's it's new. I should I should, right?

Sam Abuelsamid  10:10  
Yeah. It's Brent. Yeah, you wouldn't have found it any previous vehicles. It is a completely new design. And you know, like I said, it looks, it looks really great. It's just that you know, that one, the one flaw, you know, and everything else about this car. I really enjoyed driving. Yeah, the one the the gap I had, I didn't have a chance. You know, when we talked about the gvhd last time, I didn't have a chance to drive the 2.5 liter, the base Gve ad. I did this time around with the with the G ad, I had a 2.5 liter rear wheel drive. And it was the prestige trim level. So it was the high end trim level with the force owners a 300 horsepower, 2.5 liter, four cylinder. And 311 foot pounds of torque. Yeah, it's got more than enough performance for this vehicle, you know, it's not a problem at all. And I had no other complaints about this thing. I really liked the way it drives. You know, the ride quality is excellent. It's quite responsive. You know, the seats are fantastic. Lots of room in the backseat. Very impressed with that. See what else? Just try and find the

Rebecca Lindland  11:26  
Yeah, I also, I liked the I, you're right, Sam, there's a ton of room in the back. And then also, I love how the passenger's seat can go really, really far forward, if you ever have that circumstance, but even like, you know, while even doing things, like, you know, it's designed obviously, for, you know, if you have a show for something as exotic as a driver, but I, it also can come in handy. Even when you're putting kids in the car, when you're you're trying to do something in the backseat. It actually it's it's I think it's a really interesting design and something that we as Americans wouldn't necessarily be using on a regular basis. But that passenger seat goes almost all the way up to you can put it all in and get like a, I don't know, probably six or eight inches of room back there. I for just whatever you need to do. And so I think there's a lot of there's a surprising amount of utility in the vehicle, although I do wish that they had actually gone the a seven route and made it a hatchback, because I

Sam Abuelsamid  12:33  
agreed they

Rebecca Lindland  12:34  
could have easily done it.

Sam Abuelsamid  12:36  
Yeah, it would it would be better as a hatchback, I think, you know, then you have that option, you know, to pull down the back seat, you've got a whole bunch of space back there if you need if you need to carry larger items and a large opening to put stuff in, you know, if you're carrying larger items. And you know, this has that very similar kind of profile to, you know, something like the a seven. Yes. So it wouldn't even really change the look of the aesthetic appearance of it. It's just it would change the functionality.

Rebecca Lindland  13:08  
It would and it's such a beautiful, beautiful vehicle. I mean, I I find it really turns heads. And I just love the lines of it the color, I had that saddle silver color that was just absolutely delicious. I mean, it's just really warm, rich, gray that I think really stands out. And of course, it's the driving experience. So I actually had the 3.5 liter V six with all wheel drive. And I mean that thing was fun. You could you could get up to a nice level of speed on that.

Unknown Speaker  13:42  
Just saying

Rebecca Lindland  13:44  
that I would ever do that.

Dan Roth  13:46  
You are the most responsible among us. You are

Rebecca Lindland  13:49  
totally responsible

Sam Abuelsamid  13:52  
as the Porto red. Oh, nice. Yeah, like a burgundy color. Yeah, really fantastic. So

Rebecca Lindland  13:58  
and the other the other thing I'm sorry, the other thing I loved about it was the materials inside. I love that. That matte open pore wood feel. And I just had the leather, the stitching was really beautiful. I mean, this is you know, it's a $69,000 vehicle. But you also feel like you're in a $69,000 vehicle.

Dan Roth  14:22  
Yeah, the thing that I think I'm sorry. I think they're actually probably one of the top companies right now in terms of executing design and making it feel appropriate, even better than the price on the sticker.

Rebecca Lindland  14:42  
Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of these products were designed when Manfred Fitzgerald who came from Lamborghini when he was running Genesis. And so, you know, Manfred is a very worldly character and very, very elegant. very sophisticated. And, you know, I've never seen him with a wrinkle on anything.

Unknown Speaker  15:07  
He's like, Oh, my God,

Rebecca Lindland  15:09  
this is like us. And let me tell you a quick story about Manfred.

Sam Abuelsamid  15:13  
reversion of.

Rebecca Lindland  15:15  
Yes, where his spirit animals. So I'll tell you a quick, this was just this was just remarkable to me. So I was at a Genesis event and we were waiting for it to begin and it was kind of weird. We're kind of hanging out. We're still waiting for people to arrive, I should say. And I was debating about what color to make my business cards for Rebecca drives, I had a white version, and I had a navy blue version. And I thought, why not ask Manfred. We're standing there chatting. And so I said, Can I show you something? He's like, of course. That guy took like, five minutes looking at my business. I figured it was amazing, you know? And I was like, it's okay. Because no, because I'm thinking, he says, I'm thinking about you. I want to reflect you, your business, what you're doing. And he goes, I think the navy blue is just different. And eye catching. I mean, it was he gave me an entire dissertation

Dan Roth  16:11  
on my business card. That's how we think. Yeah, I'm not I'm not a automaker sort of designer, design Chief, but sort of leading and creative team. That's how we think that's, that's what we do. You have to come up with the story as you're, you're coming up with the concept.

Rebecca Lindland  16:27  
Exactly. But you know, for, for the CEO of Genesis to take that time on something as relatively trivial as my the color of my business cards, you know,

Dan Roth  16:37  
because there is nothing trivial.

Rebecca Lindland  16:39  
Well, exactly, but, but that attention to detail, is reflected in the products that were designed under his tutelage.

Dan Roth  16:48  
And, you know, I wonder if it would be really interesting to ask at some point, coming from Lamborghini, you know, small I know, they're owned by Volkswagen, but a small niche manufacturer, to a large automaker, like Genesis. That'll allows you to do things that you can't do you know, exotics, everybody talks about how the dashboards are covered in leather. You know why? Because there's such small volume automakers, they can't afford the molding to make high quality plastic pieces. So it's like, all of those things, you can now do that at the scale of of a large automaker making volume cars that you can't do as a small, exotic, that it would be interesting to hear what that experience was like, and maybe, maybe it wasn't anything because you know, Volkswagen, Hyundai, Kia, they're kind of not that different in terms of parent organization size.

Rebecca Lindland  17:42  
Yeah, no, but you're right, though. I mean, the certainly, you know, the marketing budgets and such at Lambeau are significantly smaller. I mean, we've had friends that work at Bentley and other, you know, and they're like, yeah, we have no budget, you know, and so it's what they focus on. I think that I, you know, I think that his experience at Genesis, you know, he was really able to make his mark on on this brand. I do think that, you know, and I don't want to speak for him. But I do think that, you know, the dealer network was difficult to kind of, you know, there's been a lot of, he inherited a lot of challenges when he came into the position, but it certainly, you know, I think that the brand would have been well served to have kept and kept him on. And but we're seeing the fruits of his labor in these products.

Dan Roth  18:33  
Yeah, so Sam, I totally didn't mean to cut you off, like five minutes.

Rebecca Lindland  18:35  
Right? So

Sam Abuelsamid  18:39  
I don't even remember what I was thinking you were talking about the price of beer.

Dan Roth  18:43  
So what did yours?

Sam Abuelsamid  18:43  
Oh, yeah. my mic was because it's so new. It actually didn't come with a with a monroney sticker. Yeah, mine didn't either. Yeah. So I priced it out. The, the portal read is a $400 option, by the way. So the base price on the 2.54 cylinder rear wheel drive is 47,700. All in including delivery, mine came to just over $58,000 which, you know, I think for a vehicle of this type, you know, something competing against, you know, a BMW five series or, you know, a Mercedes E Class. I think this is you know, I think that's an excellent value and as it always has been with with Genesis, you know, they're always a great value. But you when you sit in this, you look at it, you drive it, it doesn't feel like it's, you know, a step down from any of those German premium brands. It feels like it belongs in that group.

Rebecca Lindland  19:42  
So, yeah, that was the rear wheel drive version, right? Yes. Okay. Because mine was the all mine was like the top of the line all wheel drive the whole thing but I think for almost $10,000 less how much is the all wheel drive premium machine to pay for the pay for all wheel drive. That's a couple thousand more, I

Sam Abuelsamid  19:58  
think Yeah, it's $3,000 extra.

Rebecca Lindland  20:02  
Okay, so like for 7000 more, you're getting the 3.5 liter and I don't know that it's worth that. I think that the, I think that the, that four cylinder is so good that I think you're good with the 2.54 cylinder Personally, I mean, I haven't driven both of them, you know, I and I found the same thing on the gv ad I was, I was really, really surprised and very, very happy with how that four cylinder drove. So, you know, save yourself some money. And I mean that three points

Sam Abuelsamid  20:38  
indicate in the case of the gvhd There is one other distinction. If you do want the third row, the optional third row, you do have to get the V six, yes, not available with a four solder. That is true, that's that's clearly not an issue here. You know, there's no third row. But if you if you do want the third row in the gv ad, you're gonna have to step up to the bigger engine.

Rebecca Lindland  20:59  
Yeah, but I mean, they're really they're, they're these products, as we've said, For now, several years. The Genesis products are really stunning, but I feel like now they've come to the next level. And they and the performance is being matched by the accoutrements and the materials and the looks and everything's kind of blended together and and synthesized into a really, really good product.

Sam Abuelsamid  21:25  
Agreed. All right, so

Dan Roth  21:29  
what what was the car you wanted to talk about, but You teased this a little so now I kind of want to know.

Rebecca Lindland  21:35  
So I had the 2021 Mazda CX nine, I had the signature, it's their large three row as she beats it carries up to six people. I and it's like the Genesis you know, it's a really nice looking vehicle and has this the, the signature line, which I had was top of the line is has a, it I'm sorry, it is lovely. Yeah, it is. It's beautiful. The interior is stunning on it. And it has a special grille on the front of it. The one I had is all wheel drive, retails for 46,000 has a 2.5 liter engine in it. 250 horsepower, a six speed automatic, which I loved, as opposed to a super whiny, annoying CVT. So I liked having, you know, the gears and all that good stuff. I it was it was really, really nice looking. I think that that I had, I had a couple of issues. And I think it's important that our listeners know that when we have these issues, a lot of times, we will contact the manufacturer or in this case, there's a small group on Facebook of female journalists that I'm part of. And so I asked them, my problem with this vehicle, and I was really surprised was that I couldn't get a comfortable seating position. Obviously, I'm sure and it's not something I talk about a lot in terms of of criticizing a vehicle by I was just really weird. I kept having to make adjustments to the seat. I felt like I was sitting. I felt like in order to see over the hood, I needed to sit up really high. But the slope of the windshield doesn't allow you to set up that high. It makes a really close cabin. So like my head felt like it was hitting the top of the of the

Dan Roth  23:29  
jumping less. That's all yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  23:31  
I mean, it just, and it was something that I really, really struggled with. And so, you know, so anyway, so I reached out to my friends that are in this small group, one of them happens to be somebody at Mazda and so she then contacted me separately. And I just said, You know, I just I couldn't, I had a hard time kind of getting into an ergonomically friendly position for me and another one of my friends, Joseph monello is only she's like my one most right?

Sam Abuelsamid  23:58  
She's not even like she's like, she for 11 she

Dan Roth  24:02  
doesn't she she Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid  24:04  
That's her,

Rebecca Lindland  24:06  
which is a whole nother discussion. But so she She didn't say that she had those kinds of issues. So I don't know, I've been told before that I do prefer a very high seating position like on the racetrack. I remember one of the one of the pro drivers said, you know, trying put your seat a little bit lower a little bit more forward

Dan Roth  24:25  
or when you're used to a throne. It's really hard.

Sam Abuelsamid  24:31  
It also, you know, it depends, you know, one of the things with seating positions is it's not just your overall height, but it's also your proportions. Not everybody has the same proportion of leg length to torso length.

Dan Roth  24:43  
Right. Well and it's so that's

Sam Abuelsamid  24:44  
right, that's gonna Yeah, I mean that's going to impact how you where you feel you need to sit to in order in order to get comfortable. Yeah, no, you're in a safe.

Rebecca Lindland  24:54  
I have a very, very short torso. So my

Sam Abuelsamid  24:58  
probably why you want to sit a little bit higher. Then perhaps Jill, yeah, who's just, you know, an inch or two shorter than you. But, you know, I think I think her proportions are slightly different,

Rebecca Lindland  25:08  
right? I think so too,

Dan Roth  25:08  
I have been accused of sitting very close to the wheel to, like close and high because it's the sightlines thing, like I need to be able to go out and a lot of cars are difficult because they either have a fast windshield angle, or you know, the, the cowl is high, or a combo, and you can't, can't really discern where the front edges are in it. Yes, disconcerting.

Rebecca Lindland  25:34  
Well, and I had the same issue, I remember having an angle of windshield angle issue with visibility in the Mazda three. And I think part of it was that just the way that the sun was hitting at that time of year, it was late autumn when I had it, it just was, I don't know, and I and I do remember also, on numerous occasions, hitting my head as I got into the vehicle, on the Mazda six, and having to kind of, kind of be aware of where the a pillar is. So I think a lot of it is related to the angle of the windshield. And again, it's not a reason not to purchase, it's just a reason. It's just, it's something to be aware of, when you go to test drive a vehicle, make sure that you have a comfortable seating position, there's so many vehicles out there, there's no reason to be uncomfortable. And if you can't get a comfortable at the test drive, that feeling is only going to get worse, you know, like you're constantly going to be playing with it. And it's it's annoying. So, so that was one kind of disappointing thing from my perspective. But again, that's a very personal anecdotal.

Sam Abuelsamid  26:38  
But it's also very valid, because, you know, we're, you know, everybody's different sizes and shapes. And right, yeah, it's, it's, you know, you got to, really, as you mentioned, yeah, you need to sit in it, you know, whatever vehicle you're considering buying, you need to sit in and make sure you can get comfortable in that particular vehicle.

Rebecca Lindland  26:56  
No, you're right. And the thing is that you know, what's funny is that even though I'm only five feet tall, and this might be TMI, but so my inseam is actually 30 inches, which is long, and a lot of guys actually eggs on I look at, oh my god, right. But you know, it's funny, because no, you're Sam, you're right, the proportions make all the difference. And so it's, it's, you know, it can't like it, just how you sit in it. It is a personal experience. But you're right, Sam, and thank you for thank you for validating me. I'm no longer triggered. So

Dan Roth  27:31  
we talked about this last week, too, with the the head restraints and the seating position. Yes. You know, it's Yeah, it the design of this stuff, it's not going to work for everybody. And that will be a deal breaker. You know, I'm not gonna buy a car that I'm not comfortable in. Regardless, yes.

Sam Abuelsamid  27:48  
Another example, you know, years ago, back in 2008, or something, Jim, McCraw and I, yes, we're, we're, we were at the launch drive for the BMW xx, they were the first generation. And Jim and I both climbed in sat in the backseat of the x six. I'm 511. Jim is six foot four. He's five, five inches taller than I am. But my head was touching the ceiling in the backseat, Where's his he had, you know, a couple of good couple inches of clearance. Just because our our body proportions are so different, even though he's taller. Yeah, my head is the one touching the ceiling, because I have a longer torso. So you know, it's again, it's it's a, it's a very personal thing that everybody needs to be aware of when they're, you know, when they're deciding what they want to drive.

Rebecca Lindland  28:34  
Exactly, exactly. So the other issue that I had with, again, and I the Mazda, it's such a good vehicle, it was lovely to drive, there was such good things about it. But once again, I have managed to break the infotainment system.

Dan Roth  28:50  
They should just find your for user tests.

Rebecca Lindland  28:53  
You know, I was at CES and I did speak with somebody, I think he was at Samsung, about being a tester, because I do use things differently than everyone else. But this again, is another example where I've reached out to Mazda. And they have gotten back to me, and they did confirm this. So this is a situation. So I activated Android Auto. And when I did that, I suddenly couldn't use any of the native voice recognition commands. And remember, monster doesn't have touchscreen, okay, so that so basically, you're down to the dial, that's your only option. But when you are an Android Auto or Apple CarPlay and they confirm this for me, they deactivate the native voice recognition commands. So now you cannot use you can't control it by voice and you can't control it by touch. your only option is that dial and that dial has what in Android Auto, at least the cursor was very, very pale, it was really hard to find where the cursor was on the screen. This also and like for like ways, but I also ran into an issue where because the native functions don't work, I couldn't change the radio station, you can't even change the band that you're listening to you can't do anything. Everything is activated through your phone. So for instance, it wanted me to log into my account on Sirius XM, which I don't typically have to do. So I'm not logged in on my phone. Really?

Dan Roth  30:37  
That's what I don't

Unknown Speaker  30:39  
Yes.

Dan Roth  30:41  
Oh, because it won't use the in car tuner. It's gonna stream it through your phone.

Rebecca Lindland  30:45  
Exactly. They assume your everything has to go through your phone. Is that so?

Dan Roth  30:51  
I'm sorry, I don't wanna get ahead. Go ahead.

Rebecca Lindland  30:53  
No, no, it's okay. Cuz it's like, Wait, what? I so they found their research, quote, research found that people don't change the radio station very often. And so that was not a priority, which I found fascinating. I don't know, maybe people, maybe more people are streaming. And I'm just really far behind. But I couldn't get am FM, or XM. I actually on so I so I got home fairly late from a program driving back from LaGuardia. And I drove in silence because I could not I wanted ways to be activated. And because of that, I couldn't turn any radio, any sound on any audio on in the vehicle. And they confirm that this is the design. I think

Sam Abuelsamid  31:41  
that that's a terrible design design decision. And, you know, in general, I really like Maslow's approach. But that that is an area where I think that they have made a mistake. You know, and I had the CX five last week. And you know, it's got the same infotainment system in there. And I had, I also had a completely separate problem where Android Auto wasn't showing up at all. And I it didn't, it didn't appear in the menus. I contacted Mazda and they said should be there, we're not sure what's going on. I suspect it may have had, it may have been a pre production vehicle with an older software build that didn't have it enabled or something. But

Rebecca Lindland  32:22  
he talked about that before you talked about that issue before,

Sam Abuelsamid  32:25  
right. And I plugged in an iPhone and tried that CarPlay worked fine. But it did have the same issue as you that you had with Android Auto where when you when you have CarPlay active or Android Auto, the not the embedded voice recognition system is disabled for some reason. Every other manufacturer that does this too, typically what they do is, you know, you have the voice button on the steering wheel. If you you know, just give it a quick click once it'll bring up the embedded voice recognition system. If you hold it for a second or two, then it'll activate the the phone's assistant. So either Siri or Google Assistant.

Dan Roth  33:07  
Well, that's a little pinky toe. How do you learn? How do you figure that out? Like I said, you'd obviously need to read the manual. I have somebody tell you.

Sam Abuelsamid  33:14  
Yeah, I mean, I know I figured it out by accident several years ago. You know, when I tried it, you know, I pressed and held the, the the button, and it brought up the Google Assistant,

Dan Roth  33:24  
which I guess that kind of brings up the point, right? These cars are so sophisticated. The automakers are not the automakers, the dealers like part of it needs to be a training session. Yeah, to walk you through it.

Rebecca Lindland  33:36  
Yeah, but I tried to use Google Assistant. And because I didn't have streaming services activated, I could not use the audio that's built into the vehicle. So everything has to go through Google Assistant, and like, you know, so and I ended up not on my drive home from the airport. But a couple of days prior to that, I found myself on the side of the road crying, trying try praying swearing to trying to change the radio station. And that is never appropriate.

Dan Roth  34:12  
issue with Mazdas, too. I was I wanted to have recently the CX three and or 630. And I think that that was one of the things I noticed. And I just dealt with it by just unplugging the phone. But the, you know, brings up a good point where they talk about their testing. And like, well, we found that people don't use their their they don't tune the radio that much. Okay, so that's gonna be the engineer speaker that the sort of software dev speak, they're gonna say, Well, those are edge cases that people who do great. You want to talk about edge cases you have to talk about the actual amount of people not the percentage, right so when you get like Facebook right talking about edge cases, Facebook has 2 billion users and edge cases 1% that's 20 million people, right? That's a shitload of people. So they're not edge cases at that point. Like, that's a lot of people that your crappy design is going to harm. And I got that whole thing from here it is ruined, ruined by design, the book by Mike Montero, which I'm working my way through. And it's been it raises good points, you know, designers are responsible for the things that they put out into the world. And this almost strikes me as irresponsible. It's, it's, it's, you can't explain it away with typical software development, you know, wave of the hand, but like, Oh, well, those that's not that many people or, you know, are the amount of users that we have, like most people do it this way, that's great. But you are talking about a 4000 pound automobile that is hurtling down the road, you can't make it confusing, you have to make it easy, because you're going to distract people. And exactly, they're gonna crash into stuff. And I

Rebecca Lindland  35:50  
mean, I was so distracted, just trying to find the cursor on in ways trying to find where it was. That I mean, I just, and I and I told most of this, I said, I can't, in good conscience, recommend this vehicle, especially because the touchscreen option is not available, either. So they've taken away two of the potential methods of interfacing with this. And it was just and again, like, we're trained professionals in quotes, you know, we, we should know what we're doing here. And, you know, they said, Well, you were on the Mazda CX 30 launch, you didn't have these problems. Like, you're right, I didn't have these problems. But but it's a good, it's a good lesson for me to make sure because oftentimes, we don't listen to the radio on those launches. Because in the old days, we used to have a driving partner, and we would be chatting, but also, we want to listen to the vehicle, we want to listen to the NVH noise, vibration, and harshness in the vehicle. So I almost never turned the radio on, on a test drive, unless I'm actually testing the system. Right. But, but it's a good, it's a good lesson for me to remember to really go through kind of an exhaustive process with the infotainment system. But yeah, this was just really, it's so frustrating, because they've done such a beautiful job on this vehicle. It looks great, the interiors, beautiful, the materials, the fit, and the finish that you know, it was quiet. I mean, there's so many good things about it. But I just can't in good conscience recommend it with that infotainment system, the way that it's set up right now.

Dan Roth  37:32  
So I'm curious, though, like, is it actually a system limitation to where it can't sort of mix those functions? Yeah. Trying to design

Rebecca Lindland  37:40  
to that is fine like that. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  37:43  
But I think what dancing is, is it a technical limitation that it can't do it? Oh, my, my guess is? It's probably not I think it was a design decision, rather, technical limitation like that.

Dan Roth  37:53  
So that's, that's bad design thinking. That's right.

Sam Abuelsamid  37:56  
Well, you mentioned something earlier, you know, when I, when I talked about, you know, with the the voice button on the steering wheel, typically, if you give it a single tap, you know, it'll bring up the embedded voice control. And if you press and hold, then it brings up the the phone's digital assistant. And I think maybe the thinking behind this design decision was discoverability. And because, again, as I said, I stumbled across that behavior by accident several years ago. And I've noticed that almost every vehicle does it that way. I think Mazda opted not to do that, perhaps because of the discoverability issue. They wanted, consistent behavior, whatever mode that you're in. And and I think, you know, there's some reasonable thinking behind this, you know, if, you know, whatever, if you happen to be using in the smartphone projection mode, they want to keep it focused on that they don't necessarily want you jumping back and forth between different modes. If you don't have your phone connected, then you know, you're using the embedded system. And that's the interface they want. Want to give you. Yeah,

I tried to keep it. I'm not I'm not saying I agree with that decision. I'm just, I'm just trying to explain what I think might be the rationale.

Dan Roth  39:09  
Yeah. And when you when you when you started talking about write it, you can see how they may get to that decision point. But I think what I have found as a user, is, you know, like, we talked about the BMW cards with the gesture controls, and most people that I talked to, you know, they laugh about them, or they don't like them, but Okay, that's fine. You can either use it or not. There's three other ways to get information into that system. Yeah. It's the same thing that you were just talking about Rebecca, where they've closed off the avenues for interfaces. So when you're designing something that people are supposed to use, like people at large, not specifically trained users, you've got to you've got to meet them where they are and and you get to that lowest common denominator design point. So how do I make this easy? How do I make it understandable without somebody having to crack the manual and that's really Really, really hard so I'm not really casting too much. aspersions on on Mazda, they've they've thought about it, some of the decisions don't really pan out in the real world. But they make it hard to to use the thing. Like that's, that's bad.

Rebecca Lindland  40:17  
Yeah, so the other thing, so I'm just reading reading over my notes that I sent to Mazda. So the other thing is that I did finally figure out how to access the channel list by the rotary dial, but it starts at one or 87.7 or, you know, it's

Sam Abuelsamid  40:41  
598 beginning of whatever band you're in,

Rebecca Lindland  40:44  
yes, it starts at the very, very beginning every single time. So basically, I mean, you know, I, from a consumer standpoint, it's a priority to, and we find this in other vehicles, it's a priority to programming your favorites. Okay, so that's an absolute, but God forbid you stray from your favorites, because you're not going to be able to listen and, and, you know, again, like it's, I was, I was with another manufacturer when I was getting these messages back from Mazda. And I do appreciate their attention and their response. But, you know, when I said well, that Mazda found that people didn't change the radio station, they were like, wait, what, what are you talking about? Everybody changes.

Dan Roth  41:25  
Like, for me, what what aggravates me is when I, when I can't jump back and forth, I don't want to stream stuff on my phone. If I'm in the area where I can receive the broadcast, why would I want to stream it on my phone?

Rebecca Lindland  41:40  
Yes. Or even you know, what I what I find that I do a lot of times, first of all, if different people are in my vehicle, right? We want to listen to different music. I but I also I will tend

Sam Abuelsamid  41:52  
not how it works.

Rebecca Lindland  41:57  
You can tell I'm the youngest. I never had those rights

Dan Roth  42:00  
depends on how magnanimous you're feeling.

Rebecca Lindland  42:04  
Right? Because my dad would always change it just as we started to sing a song up, it would change the channel. But no, you know, it's just so I think we've we've bashed them enough, but it's just again, it's something on a test drive, that I if you're a user that you never listened to the, to the audio in your car, that's fine. Except that this also applies, like if you if you're in ways, you know, if you don't want to. And what's interesting too, is that, you know, a lot of manufacturers, typically on the on the more economical vehicles, they don't even put navigation in anymore. So you are forced to use ways or you know, you're forced to use Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. So this decision is just, it's, it's really, it's really baffling to me, and the fact that all three of us, you know, kind of, regardless of how we use it, I think we all think in different ways, we all bring something different to the table. And I think this is something that we all can agree on is just it's not safe. And that's my number one issue. And that

Sam Abuelsamid  43:10  
lets you know we need to do is we need to make a checklist of you know, these are these are things you need to try out when you go to test drive a car, yes, about buying. Make sure you try all of these things before you walk away or before you sign anything. And make sure that you're comfortable with the way that that functions, we should do that and post Absolutely. Right on that day.

Dan Roth  43:31  
Now, I was gonna say, you know, since we're officially a corporation, we can create design, design and testing consultancy, they can just send us the cars and the million dollars and we'll give them a large report. Maybe not a million, I'll cut them a break. But it's it's like, this is a big part of designing cars. And it's something that seems to me that you could actually make it easy even for those people who don't you know that okay, most people are not going to do it. But the people that will. Like it's not hard to put that function in so I just I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, the otherwise the CX nine is lovely. Although I wish you tried it in the summer. Because my one complaint about the CX nine was that the AC felt a little weak, but I haven't had one in years. So that was it. Like when they first launched this generation of cx nine the AC had a hard time coping with summer. Oh, interesting.

Rebecca Lindland  44:32  
I mean, I will say you know, the it was an all black interior with some slight brown wood accents to it. But again, you know, for a This was 46,000 I which is a lot of money for but it's a seven C or 60 rather,

Dan Roth  44:49  
you know, like that. I mean, it's its biggest natural competitor obviously it's gonna be like the telluride or the palisade at this point,

Rebecca Lindland  44:57  
yeah. Which I still larger. They are larger and I still do love those vehicles. But you know, this have really nice quilting on it very, you know, lovely diamond quilting attention to detail. It's certainly I mean, the third row is going to be cozy as most third rows in this size vehicle are and but you know it had a nice in in the third row, you've got a nice center console situation and I'm starting the second row. And it's it is a captain's, it's kind of a captain's chair, not totally because the center roll center row does have a console in it. So accessing the third row there was there was a good enough room and there's actually a nice amount of cargo space, even when the third row is up, and then a lot of cargo space if you don't need that third row. So you know, overall, it was, I think it's a very, very good vehicle, it certainly should be on your on your shopping list, except that infotainment system in my mind, I just can't in good conscience recommend it. Okay,

Dan Roth  46:03  
cool. Um, let's move on. Yeah, so I had the link in courser, um, which was really, like, I'm impressed by this, uh, you know, I don't, I was looking for sales figures for how the MKC sold, because to me personally, I always forgot about the MKC. But I think it actually sold, okay. But, you know, with the course air Lincoln, they're using a lot of fancy words and high minded descriptions to launch this vehicle. And it's, it's a luxury compact, it has a cool name, which is great. They don't need to expand on that in their press release, they talk about how Coursera is related to the Latin root of curses. And I'm like, anytime you bring, like the phrase curse, man your car, stop it. You know, but it's, this is the vehicle that Lincoln needs most not so much to erase the memory of the MKC. But to better establish Lincoln as more than fancy Ford's because I never felt that the MKC really, really achieved its launch velocity past the escape.

Rebecca Lindland  47:18  
Did you have the 2020 or 2021?

Dan Roth  47:20  
I believe I had the 2020

Rebecca Lindland  47:22  
Okay, yeah, because the 2021 is not on the website yet. And I actually had a hard time even finding it on the on the consumer website because it doesn't show up in Google results. So they need to work on their SEO.

Dan Roth  47:32  
Um, just so you know, you don't want to necessarily be putting the SEO dollars behind a site.

Sam Abuelsamid  47:39  
But yeah, the I don't think there's any notable changes for the 20 ones anyway, I think it's basically carry on

Dan Roth  47:44  
Yeah, it's probably details because it's just launched for 20. Um, and I didn't

Rebecca Lindland  47:47  
know I was trying, I was trying to find the 2020 So anyway, go ahead.

Dan Roth  47:51  
No, that's fine. Um,

Rebecca Lindland  47:52  
I digress

Dan Roth  47:53  
I did have this the top trims that had all the goodies and all the drive and the 2.3 liter engine and I think it LED headlights and everything and it's it's lovely you know, they've pulled the the styling elements from The Aviator and Nautilus most of the aviator down to scale down for the coarser and that's been successful. It's really good looking. And inside, same thing, it's it's really, really nice. Lincoln has made a an effort and it's paying off to have a cohesive family design language. We can talk about how sir derivative it may be these there's a classic design themes. You know, everybody's gonna pick up a little bit of sort of Bentley or whatever and the grilles and stuff. Okay, that's fine. It looks good. Who cares?

Rebecca Lindland  48:41  
Is this competing with like the Audi Q five? Yes, it's a five seat, right? Yeah. So I'm just trying, because it's so hard to discern the size and I haven't I didn't get a chance to get into the city. They had an event late Friday afternoon that I was not going to venture in for.

Sam Abuelsamid  49:01  
So this is this is q five x three. Lexis. Okay, and x kind of size class.

Dan Roth  49:09  
Okay. And in that class, it's really, really competitive. If they have made a real big effort. The interior is lovely. It's nice materials great design. ergonomics are pretty good. It's pretty easy to use everything. What does it sink? Is it sink for now? What

Sam Abuelsamid  49:29  
do they call that still sink three on this one. Okay.

Dan Roth  49:32  
Either way, pretty well done. You know, infotainment is is you're gonna use it a lot and it's good here. The Tech is really sort of unobtrusive and it has all of the cameras in the blind spots and I actually triggered the auto braking. By mistake you Oh, no, no, when I was coming off an exit ramp, actually coming down and like oh, I was behind I was following a group of traffic and I didn't. Yeah, I was detail. Anyway, it thought it was a little too close.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:08  
It was demonstrating how, you know, modern advanced Driver Assist systems make its drivers complacent, lazy.

Dan Roth  50:14  
Yeah, I was driving aggressively and I wanted people out of my way, and they decided they were going to slow down even more and take the exit before mine. Um, which would have been okay. And I would have reacted except for the car got the jump on me and decided to deploy like, full anchor on the highway, and looking at my rearview mirror, like, I'm gonna, just I'm gonna completely run over here.

Rebecca Lindland  50:40  
I do have a question about that. Yeah. When does automatic front braking activate the brake lights in the back?

Dan Roth  50:46  
Yes, it does. Yeah, it does.

Rebecca Lindland  50:48  
Yeah. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:49  
I just want to convey any, anytime the DSL is greater than like point O five G's. Okay. You know, which is, you know,

Rebecca Lindland  50:56  
even like adaptive cruise control? Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:58  
It if it's if it's hitting the brakes that hard. Yes. Most of the time, you know, like for ACC most of the time, your DSL is low enough that it's not going to activate the brakes. Right? If it, you know, if you're if somebody cuts in front of you in the ACC hammer, sure. It's the brakes. It's on the brake lines, the brake,

Rebecca Lindland  51:16  
okay. But it doesn't necessarily do that when you're just when it's just slowing as graduate more gradually, like it would if you were if you had your foot on the brake.

Sam Abuelsamid  51:26  
Yeah, it's a threshold based on on the the amount of deceleration you have. And this also applies to regenerative braking. You know, if you're using electric vehicle with strong region, it's right turn on those brake lights as well.

Dan Roth  51:38  
Yes. And that was one of the things that I wondered, I found the like, I look for the glow, especially at night, just Yeah. Because sometimes the systems with the if you put them in B mode or whatever, you just get the most region for one pedal driving. Right, you can make you concern that people are gonna clobber you from what

Rebecca Lindland  51:55  
exactly yeah, I'm here to answer that. To ask those questions. Yeah, you're here to answer all of

Dan Roth  51:59  
us are good. So it's good that it has safety tech. You know, but the thing that impressed me most I think was it just feels like a very appropriately fancy cabin. And we spent years and years with Lincoln's that were really not they were less distinct. And so it's, they're really finding their footing to be very distinctive. And they have a Lincoln way of operating, you know, this has the piano key shifters, which it's mostly successful, but it's not any easier than a dial or a traditional shifter, they tuck in nicely, so they don't take up much room so they free up console space. That's, that's fine. I kept reaching for shifter for a couple of days. But that's okay. You know, some of the design decisions, it does have nice open pore wood and places and good leathers and this, this trim level, which is the top trim, so it has the best materials in some places to set piano black plastic, or shiny black plastic. And I'm not sure that that's gonna hold up but okay. I was even surprised the multi way Lincoln seats. The, the super adjustable ones, they they make an appearance here. And I fought with them in the past, but I was able to find an agreeable position with this version of them versus

Sam Abuelsamid  53:22  
some other these are slightly less super adjustable than the ones in the bigger Lincoln's Yeah, like these are like, 14 way, as opposed to the 30 way seats and like the navigator, in many

Dan Roth  53:33  
ways, that's

Sam Abuelsamid  53:37  
I'm fidgeting with

Dan Roth  53:38  
Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  53:38  
I like where the voice recognition button is on the steering wheel. Was that annoying? No.

Dan Roth  53:44  
I thought it might be like a, like, I'd hit it by mistake and stuff. But no, it's it's in a really good spot. And it's it's distinct. So it's up there where your hands are gonna be anyway. So I like that spot, too.

Rebecca Lindland  53:56  
Yeah. And I also like where the cruise control buttons are, because in some vehicles, I found they have a stock, which is often hidden behind the steering wheel.

Dan Roth  54:05  
Yeah, yeah. Toyota, especially Mercedes. BMW does that. Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  54:10  
Which is really annoying. But no, this looks really really nice. No,

Dan Roth  54:13  
it's it's for this kind of vehicle. Like this is where all the sales are happening in in this Yeah. And for premium cars overall. And it's, it's a very good effort here. It drives with good discipline, that 2.3 liter has plenty of power, although the standard like the two liter engine that it comes with is a two liter turbo. It's so this is 280 horsepower, 310 pound feet with the 2.3 liter turbo because I had the the reserve. So the standard course air has the two liter turbo with 250 horsepower and to set 275 pound feet. So that's that's a noticeable difference, but it's not that Much. And I think that one of the things that you're gonna miss out on is whatever kind of fuel economy you can get out of it because it's just not it's, it's a little thirsty for what it is. And I remember that from the escape as well, that I had with this engine, it'll hustle with no problem, but it's it's gonna spill fuel

Sam Abuelsamid  55:21  
to Tesla. They do there is a plug in hybrid version of this coming it was actually supposed to be launching about now but because of some issues they had with batteries, they actually pushed back the launch until into the first quarter of 2021. But it there will be a plug in hybrid version that has over 30 miles of electric range. And all electric all wheel drive so there isn't a motor on the rear axle.

Dan Roth  55:47  
Oh, that'll make a big difference and change the attitude a little bit to just get that nice shove from behind. You know, functionally a cargo space is good. I love the hatch design that overlaps the edges of the rear quarters. They stole that from Audi but whatever great artists steal. I think it helps make the hatch opening maybe a little wider than it would otherwise be. And you don't have to worry about bashing the taillights that are left with you know, some like you take it to the home improvement store and you try to load some lumber or something because everybody does that with their luxury crossover. Right.

Rebecca Lindland  56:20  
Did you have the reserve to equipment

Dan Roth  56:23  
you choose? Yeah, with

Rebecca Lindland  56:25  
$11,000

Dan Roth  56:27  
package is but it replaces the reserve one, which I think is like a $6,000 Yeah, right. So it's Yes.

Rebecca Lindland  56:33  
Overall, eight, but it's $8,000 more.

Dan Roth  56:37  
Yeah. But Wow. What is that? What's the total tally come from? I don't I didn't.

Rebecca Lindland  56:42  
So now you're getting up. I'm at 55 to right now. Yeah. And I as I build this, there's a $700 iced mocha selection if you want or ceramic pearl. So there's so there's there are some people? Yeah, some paint colors that go for about 700. And then you can get a 1600 dollar appearance package. Although no, that's part of it. And then let's just look at the wheel types. You can add 1200 dollar wheels.

Dan Roth  57:14  
None of those are really offensively priced though. Like if you want the stuff you're gonna pay for it. 1200 bucks for a set of wheels is

Rebecca Lindland  57:21  
not it's not bad. Yeah, now and they're pretty good. There's actually the, there's another one that's actually a 1600 that are fabulous, though. So I would go for this. It's not gonna change your payment much.

Dan Roth  57:38  
Even if even if you fully load it up, I expect that it's probably not going to crack 7065 or maybe even less. Like I honestly don't know how you can get the price.

Rebecca Lindland  57:48  
Yeah, no, I don't think I'm at 58 right now with my fancy wheels. Yeah, so i think that i think it's I think it's pretty close to that. And that's that's a really, really nicely equipped vehicle. So you're 58 which Yeah, I mean, that's that's it. That's not bad. It's $14,000 worth of options, but you're getting, you know, you're really getting a different engine. You're getting a beautiful interior, you are getting some cool things there.

Dan Roth  58:17  
Yeah. And what would you pay for for the Audi or BMW and exactly right. You know, this drives every bit as well as those cars do the 2.3 you know, it's it's engine note isn't the smoothest but it's quiet in here. It's quiet enough inside that my 12 year old who is prodigiously noisy in his own right. commented that rich people get to enjoy a quiet engine.

Sam Abuelsamid  58:44  
Well, I think that is one of the the most important distinctions between this and the Cadillac XT four. Yeah, the the NVH in the course air like other Lincoln's is just outstanding. Oh, it's good. Yeah, yeah. tastic job, where as the Z for as much as it is fun to drive. You know, it's NVH characteristics are bad. Well, you know, a lot of road noise coming through

Unknown Speaker  59:09  
a lot of road.

Dan Roth  59:11  
But this is the thing that the course here doesn't really give up much on being fun to drive either it's, it's fun. Oh, yeah, you know, it's it'll hustle and it's, it feels good doing it. So, that's again, that was one of the things I noticed about the Escape is like what they This is a fun car to drive. And that's nice to have, even if you're just driving a compact crossover compact luxury crossover. So it's, it's comfortable, it's quiet, it's luxurious, and it's a good time on a back road like that's that's that's a pretty hard combo. You know, the spider chart of that is tough to achieve. So they've done a really good job with it. The throttle calibration I felt was a little overeager so it made made made it feel less smooth. I think especially coming away from stops but There's there's drive mode so you can put it in conserve mode and it smooths out those inputs. You know, it's it's a really credible contender, I'm much preferred over the Lexus why I was thinking of the Lexus RX probably because we were talking about it last year last week. And the infotainment is good. Probably better for the class and then a lot of others that are a little bit more Byzantine to us, although I did feel like you know, they've got buttons on the center stack, which is good. But the buttons aren't different enough. So it's you still have to look. And if you wanted to switch like air flow modes with hp AC, you press the button, which normally you'd expect it to cycle through the modes. No, it brings up more buttons on the screen this time and then you get to poke at the screen to figure out where you want airflow. So that That to me was another one of those mistakes. Like, did you actually try to use this? Why would you make me press three buttons just to do one thing? Come on.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01:03  
You can you can do it all by voice though.

Dan Roth  1:01:05  
Yeah, I, I, I I watched 2001. Man, you don't talk to machines? they will they will stab you in the back. Every time we open the pod bay doors. No. So yeah, the the M the mean, the MKC was anonymous to me. And the courser I think helps get past that MK whatever naming scheme. So people aren't saying the Lincoln what you say coarser, it's a cool name, it sticks a little better, and the vehicle itself stands up to scrutiny. It's a it's a really excellent. Turn about for Lincoln, we you know, a couple years ago, we're talking about Lincoln dying. And I mean, I don't know what their sales look like I haven't really delved in I was poking around trying to figure it out last night. But their product is good. At least,

Rebecca Lindland  1:01:56  
they did mention that because Michael Sprague was the head of Lincoln, or some division of it, or some part of it, he was on a podcast and mentioned that the new dealerships are actually seeing an increase in traffic. Which is interesting, because that's when the dealer experience I think when you're trying to revitalize a brand, you have to pay attention to that dealer experience. It's one of the big challenges that Genesis has, you know that it doesn't have a separate standalone dealerships. So I think that Lincoln has, they need to really flex on that advantage that they have, they also, you know, have great pickup and delivery services, and they can kind of pull some of the Black Label attributes of it. And really appeal I think, you know, this size of vehicle is so great, particularly for smaller households for single women and men. You know, I think that there's opportunities here that Lincoln really could capitalize on with the right brand of marketing and the right dealer strategy and stuff. So I think it's, I would like to be able to drive on at some point. There's a very limited fleet here in the New York area for Lincoln, but I think it's I think there's a lot of potential here.

Dan Roth  1:03:14  
It's gonna be compelling. Yeah, it's,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:16  
yeah, for what it's worth, you know, on Ford's end of end of September, sales release, because they report quarterly. They still have the Coursera and MKC bundled together, because they had the changeover partway through last year. But through the first nine months of 20 sales were basically flat for Coursera and MKC. Which given where the market was as a whole is actually really good. I mean, it's if the market in a normal market, it probably would have been up pretty significantly in that same period. So they sold and sold through the first part through the first nine months of this year. They sold 18,000 Wow, over 18,000 course there's that's good. Yeah, I

Rebecca Lindland  1:04:01  
mean, considering what's

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:02  
going on this year, it's Lincoln's best selling vehicle. Yeah, by pretty pretty significant margin.

Dan Roth  1:04:09  
Yeah, so I guess my my hearty endorsement, which is worth everything they paid for it.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:18  
Alright, let's move on to some topics. We can stay with Ford because their biggest news is that they finally lifted the curtain on the F 150. We saw it a while ago and now we can talk about it and Sam you you were able to get the full dog and pony. I did I did the the media launch drive of the new f150 had a chance to drive several different examples I spent the most time in in a King Ranch powerboost so for 2021 model year, you know, and in typical automaker PR parlance you know the F 150 is all new, except, you know, it's mostly kind of new. Not not entirely New, but there's actually a lot more new under the skin than what is apparent from just from looking at it. You know, I mean the design, it's a it's a normal, it's a natural evolution of what they've been doing with F 150 for the last couple of generations, especially the previous one. But it doesn't look radically different. You know, the power trains, you know, there's six power trains for this year five of them are, are carried over from the 3.3 liter naturally aspirated V six to 2.7, and three, five EcoBoost v sixes, the three liter diesel v six and the five liter V eight, those are all carried over the only difference there is the six speed that used to be standard with the with the the base engine is gone, it's now 10 speeds across the board. That's the only transmission they have in the f150. It's good. what's what's new for this year is the what they call the power boost that is the new f 150 hybrid. And, you know, so this is using Ford's modular hybrid transmission system. And this is the third application of it. We've already seen it in the Explorer, The Aviator Grand Touring, and now on the F 150. In the Explorer, they paired this transmission with a 3.3 liter naturally aspirated V six, the big the, basically the base engine from the f150. And The Aviator, they put it with a three liter twin turbo V six. And because it's a plug in hybrid, they also gave it a bigger motor that Ford's hybrid transmission hybrid system for these vehicles is basically it's the 10 speed automatic, but they sandwich in an electric motor in between the end of the crank shaft and the input and the torque converter. So you'd have an extra you have that electric motor, you know, the can drive the torque converter and the rest of the drive line. And so the The Aviator has the most powerful Lincoln ever, ever produced, you know, 490 horsepower and 650 foot pounds of torque. And the F 150. They paired it with the three point is a non non plugin, but they paired it with the 3.5 liter EcoBoost. So 450 horsepower, 570 foot pounds of torque most torque ever and an F 150. So they're not, they didn't try to make this it is actually quite fuel efficient, but they didn't, you know, maximize fuel efficiency like they could have in this thing. They went for functionality, you know, trying to enhance the capability of what an F 150 does. For example, this thing can tow 12,700 pounds, the last hybrid full size pickup truck, you know, it was the old GM two mode hybrids that were built between 2008 and about 2012, which were very expensive. And also, you know, we're limited to about 6000 pounds of towing capacity. And less than 2000 pounds of payload. This f 150 is like 3000 pounds of payload 12 and a half thousand pounds of towing in so this the only the, if you want more towing than this, you've got to go with the standard three, five EcoBoost, which can go up to 14,000 pounds. I spent the most time in in the hybrid, and was really impressed with it. A couple of years ago, when they first started talking about it, one of the things that they highlighted at the time was that, you know, they were going to have a built in power takeoff capability, you know, for you know, basically use the hybrid system as a generator, because what they're doing is, you know, they're thinking about, you know, who are our customers that actually use these things as a work truck. And you can, you know, while the one I drove was the high end, you know, King Ranch luxury version, you can also get the same power train and XL t, which is the, that's the high volume model and that's the one that you know, a lot of a lot of commercial customers use that are the xL xL, the base XL is the only one where you can't get the hybrid. But the you know, the, what they call pro power on board

allows you to get AC power gives you with the hybrid, the Bass Pro power on board system is a 2.4 kilowatt system. So you get for 120 volt outlets in the left rear corner of the bed. And that's on every single one of these hybrids. So you can plug in your tools, charger, charge tools and things like that, which is great on a job site because a lot of commercial customers you have to haul long a generator to power their equipment. Now you don't have to. And then there's also an optional 7.2 kilowatt pro power onboard, which adds a 240 volt outlet in the back there. So you got a 240 volt NEMA so you want you can charge electric cars. Exactly so you can you know you can if your Maki Mustang Maki runs out of juice, you can just plug it into your F 150 power boost and be ready to go on about three or four hours. But, you know, the, the, I think the biggest complaints, you know, we I think that we've had about the F 150 in the past have been, you know, the interior materials and quality and fit and finish compared especially when you compare it to the Rams, you know, the Rams have always been a step above, and they really stepped forward really stepped up their game with this generation of f150 it's much better much, much better. You know, even the the base, you know, XL and XL T, you know, they still have mostly hard plastics, but the texturing on the plastics is looks much better, feels better. You know, and they've done you know, they've got some neat little touches, like on the X LTS at the front corner of the door panel, just below the mirror. There's a little trim plate there that has a silkscreen map of Detroit on it. And so you can you can see where the truck was built. You know, there's a lot of other nice details the if you all the on the XL, the bass XL, you can still get a column shift on that one.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:07  
Yeah. Betsy

Dan Roth  1:11:11  
three on the tree man. Actually,

Rebecca Lindland  1:11:15  
may be getting to this, but I love that interior work surface.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:19  
Yeah, that's what I was just gonna get to think may have on you know, the most of them now you know, get sold with a console matter shifter, if you get the console matter shifter, this is one of the standard features for this year, there's a button beside the shifter, you press that the whole shift lever motors down into the cavity in front of it, and leaves a flat leaves a flat surface there, and then the armrest actually folds out. So the center armrest, you can open that up, and you have a nice large flat work surface there, which is fantastic. You know, for again, for contractors, plumbers, electricians, whatever, you know, if you've got your laptop there, you got to print out an invoice you can put you know, put your laptop on there, or you know, you know, write stuff out, if you're still doing it that way. So they've really thought about and, you know, we talked about this previously, this whole idea of Human Centered Design, there's a lot of these little touches, you know, looking at how do people actually use their trucks? What do they what are the things that they need? Not just, you know, what kind of neat features can we put in here? But, you know, what are the kinds of features that for someone who's using this as a truck as a tool? What are the things that they would actually benefit from? And then putting those kinds of features in here? And I think works really, really well.

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:34  
Yeah, I think that's what I found when I saw the vehicle. Back at the end of August, we weren't allowed to drive it. But I felt like every, they had just thought of so many things, there was so many conveniences, just just the details were amazing. And I think they just did a really, really nice job appreciating and embracing their user, instead of trying to tell people how to use the vehicle, they listen to how people use the vehicle. And I think that that created those emotional solutions that people are looking for, in, in product, especially, you know, the pickup truck user, a lot of times they are, it starts with they need a pickup truck, period. And they may have to compromise on other things like design aesthetic or something. But if you can say you've got a pickup truck, and we're going to, and we're also going to listen to how you use it, all those smaller features, those smaller details. I think they've done an amazing job on this.

Dan Roth  1:13:42  
They that is the most important vehicle.

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:46  
Oh, for sure. But they respect that though.

Dan Roth  1:13:48  
Yeah, they are screwed up.

Rebecca Lindland  1:13:51  
No, they're not. But, you know, it's it still is they've done a really, really good job of protecting this vehicle. Yeah,

Dan Roth  1:14:00  
yeah, I'm impressed with the upgrades. You know, my biggest complaint about the f150 has always been the interior quality for the price, at least for the last couple generations. And I think the last time we talked to the impression was that it's much, much better.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:17  
It is absolutely way better. And, you know, monk, some of the other interesting new features, you know, on the higher end models you can order what's basically a lie flat front seat, you know, kind of kind of like a business class seat, you know, they call it the max recline seat that goes back almost completely flat. You know, so if you need to take a nap, you know, in the middle of the afternoon or you're on a road trip,

Dan Roth  1:14:41  
I mean, who doesn't take a nap in the middle actually.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:45  
I mean, that's the beautiful thing about working from home, you can do that. But you know if you're if you have to work outside the home and you work from an F 150 now you can do that in your F 150.

Dan Roth  1:14:54  
Well, you know, I'm waiting for them to just put an air mattress in the bed, though.

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:59  
Why? Gotta have the built in like so the cushion, right you just press a button the cushion pops up and creates an ad. That's what I want

Dan Roth  1:15:09  
another instead of the King Ranch up to the king size,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:12  
yeah, another another neat touch that you can get in the in the in the crew cab version is under the rear seat. So you can you can fold up the the seat cushions in the in the back. And you can get this fold up storage cargo compartment. So it's kind of like a little origami thing you can fold flat. So if you need a large flat surface inside, that's, you know, that's locked away, you can have that. So you have a flat floor there. But then you just pop this thing up, and you have a storage area there, it's probably about six, seven inches high runs, spans the full width of the cab, you know, and the the depth of the rear seat. And then what you can do though, is when you put the seat back down again, there's, there's a keyholder, you can actually take your key and lock it so the seat so you can lock stuff away inside locked in the cab. So it's both not visible, it's out of sight. And it's locked away under the rear seat in this compartment. And also on either end of that, you know, when you have the seat, fold it up, there's actually, you know, there's hooks there that you can tie down. So if you have to put something large inside, you want to tie it down so it doesn't move around. There's tie downs inside the cab, you know, that are just stamped, you know, from the seat frame, you know, they put a couple of extra loops on there, and you have places to tie down inside. So a lot of cool details like that, that really make it more useful. Also, you know, something you don't really you don't typically think of something like a full size pickup as a technology leader. But the F 150 is one of Ford's first vehicles with their new electrical architecture that supports full bumper to bumper over the air software updates,

Dan Roth  1:17:08  
is it also 48 volt.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:10  
It's not 48 volt No. But it does have software updates for all the system available for all the systems in the vehicle. So if they need to update the software for a problem with the seat controls, or mirrors or the power train, they can push out those software updates to you over the air, you don't have to go into a dealer, you can still go if you prefer to have a dealer do it, you can you can take it to your dealer and have them do it. But otherwise, you can just do it, you know, just waiting, it'll just show up and be done. And then next year, they will have the active drive assist, you know, which is their version of supercruise a hands free, partially automated driving system. But if you order the prep package for it now, they install all the extra sensors including the infrared driver monitor cameras, and on on the F 50.

Dan Roth  1:18:01  
Oh driver monitoring that thing that other companies that do eight s

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:06  
that don't need it. Yeah, they were what Ford has done is you know, unlike Cadillac or GM, you know where they, they have a single camera mounted on top of the steering column that's looking at you, Ford's actually got an F 150, they've got two, one is mounted on the at the front at the lower front corner of the door like right by the mirror. And then the other one is above the up to the upper right of the the touchscreen, the 14 inch touchscreen. And so they're looking at you, the two of them are looking at you from different angles. So it gets it gets around that problem that the gms had, where if the sun was shining in from directly over your shoulder from behind, it could flood the camera and it wouldn't be able to see you and the system couldn't activate because they're looking from different angles, you won't have that problem anymore. So even if one is flooded the other one can still see you.

Dan Roth  1:18:59  
It so it's gonna tell you hey, put the phone down. Exactly.

Rebecca Lindland  1:19:04  
I also I love the the tailgate work surface, the details in there. They've got a place where you can I love the old school little pencil slots that they've got the you can actually use a ruler, okay, right. There's a ruler, you can use the tailgate as a clamper like the clamp so you can put

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:23  
clamps on that notches in there for C clamps.

Rebecca Lindland  1:19:25  
Yeah, and then you know, of course the plug is right there. So you can plug in the tool right there as well. It's just it's really what what I liked again, when I just saw it, I didn't get a chance to drive it but is it's like they had very specific people working on these different parts of the truck. And then it all came together in a really really nice emphasis of design to really cool.

Dan Roth  1:19:51  
Yeah, that the the truck market is where they they clearly want customers to know how valuable They are. And I'm just I'm really curious what happens to the truck market. If eventually we stop our protectionism and get rid of the chicken tax. I wonder, you know, part of the reason why trucks are like this is because they only compete with themselves among the domestic brands. You can, it's very expensive for an automaker to bring a production line here to the US to produce domestically, like companies have done it really are Toyota and Nissan. And I'm not not seeing anybody else really trying that, but there's a lot of trucks in the rest of the world that are interesting takes on it and different and more variety, and better suited for some of the tasks that we just sort of pushed these full size trucks into. So I'd be curious to see what happens if that eventually happens. But I mean, in the meantime, enjoy being coddled. Because it's, it's nice.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:02  
Yeah. No, it's it's a great truck. They've done an excellent job updating it and, you know, I think, fairly confident that for the, for the foreseeable future, Ford will probably retain their, their position at the top of the truck, Mark.

Dan Roth  1:21:16  
I think they play around with numbers, but that anyway, like, that's,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:19  
yeah, well, you know, the thing is, you know, they don't say f 150 sales volumes, they say f series. So this, you know, when they talk about, you know, 900,000 f series last year, that also includes all the super duties, but those you know, it's it's generally split about two thirds, one third between the light duty f 150, and one third and two thirds light duty, and then one third, heavy duty, the super duty trucks. And the same is roughly true for GM and FCA. That's usually split about two thirds, one third between light duty and heavy duty. Yeah.

Dan Roth  1:21:52  
And then GM, like if if GM were to report on their platform, like what is it k two xx now, for the trucks? If they were to say the amount of those, you know, vehicles sold on that platform, they probably outsell the FC.

Rebecca Lindland  1:22:08  
Yeah, because GMC and Chevrolet are split, maybe

Dan Roth  1:22:11  
no more, but because RAM is sort of coming up. Ram has

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:15  
Yeah, yeah. Well, actually, f series still sells the GM, the GM, the Chevy slash GMC trucks combined combine

Dan Roth  1:22:24  
because there were years that they didn't.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:27  
Yeah, there were some years where they didn't but right now it does.

Dan Roth  1:22:30  
Yeah. So either way, there's a lot of trucks. And it's still impossible to find one that's used in a good shape for not a million dollars. So super frustrated. I found on last night locally, it has the it's a 2004 has the 8.1 liter vortech that mark for big block, and I sent my wife a text I was like, I really want this truck. It's like it's always like, but it has the best engine,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:54  
push rods. All of you know 910 miles per gallon if you're lucky.

Dan Roth  1:22:59  
Yeah, it had a fisher minute mount plow on the front too. So it's definitely gonna get zero. It's an additional vehicle. So infinity decided they wanted to restyle are they calling it all new with the Qx 55. Or is it

Sam Abuelsamid  1:23:17  
it's a it's a new model, a new nameplate? You know, and they talked a lot about it being inspired by the by the FX,

Dan Roth  1:23:26  
and it's in between it's a 55 not a 50 or 60. It's a 55. Right. Right. And,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:23:31  
and, you know, the thing is, you know, the the FX, and, you know, when after Johan de nysschen, had his way with infinity, you know, which became the Qx 70. You know, that was that was really kind of the first of the, you know, the so called SUV coupes, you know, came out about five years before the BMW xx.

Rebecca Lindland  1:23:52  
Yeah, when did the when did the FX come out? Was

Sam Abuelsamid  1:23:54  
it 2000 3000? Okay,

Dan Roth  1:23:56  
early 2000. Yeah. Because it was like a bargain. Porsche Cayenne. It was really well, it was,

Rebecca Lindland  1:24:06  
it was nice looking. It was a nice looking Porsche.

Dan Roth  1:24:10  
Great. And it was on an FM platform, so it drove well.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:13  
Yeah, it was fabulous. It was the same as the same platform as the Nissan Z. Yeah. And you know, the Infinity G's and, you know, some other some other models so much on the Qx 55, you know, is a fastback SUV, but it's not really a direct replacement for the Qx 70 or FX. This is basically the so called coupe version of the Qx 50 I mean, if you if you look at it's on the same platforms, Qx 50, which we've talked about, you know, and quite liked, you know, just with you know, the back end sloping forward more, you know, they tweak the tweak the facial a little bit, you know, it's got a slightly larger version of the grill and a little more aggressive look, but you know, not not notably different and the tail lights are a little different. But other than that, you know, it's mostly the same sheet metal, everything inside, you know, is the same. Only the two liter varial variable compression turbo four cylinder. Unlike the Qx 50, no front wheel drive version, all wheel drive is standard. So this this kind of sits just slightly up market of the Qx 50. They did hit, you know, during the background, or I don't know, if you were on that call, Rebecca. They, you know, they did hint at, you know, at some point in the future, perhaps bring back, you know, a true FX replacement. Uh, yes, like 70. But they're not ready to talk about that right now. So this, you know, this is kind of in that, you know, mid size segment a little bit smaller than what the FX was, and certainly a lot less power.

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:49  
Yeah, I love this thing. I just the looks of it. Obviously, we haven't driven it yet. But I, but I am so

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:56  
partial 50. Right. You know, I know, Dan and I have I can't? Yeah, I

Rebecca Lindland  1:26:02  
don't know if I have to look back and see. I'm very partial to these fastback coupe kinds of looks, because I just think it's, it's really, they just they scream, I don't have children.

Dan Roth  1:26:22  
Or I care about my offsprings

Rebecca Lindland  1:26:26  
bedroom of my offspring,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:26:28  
my offspring are this tall. They're all.

Rebecca Lindland  1:26:32  
I just I think it's really, really great looking. And I think that, you know, infinity has similar to Lincoln infinity is really been in some ways its own worst enemy, while it went through all those crazy name changes, and while it kind of finds its place, and I think that there's a lot of opportunity here. Yeah, you know, I don't know that I've driven it, I only have the Q 50.

Dan Roth  1:26:57  
I mean, I

Rebecca Lindland  1:26:58  
just, I just drove the Q 50. sedan. That's the one that I took down to Virginia, coincidentally, with my girlfriend's four kids rotating in and out of it this summer. But I just I think that infinity, you know, there's, there's opportunity there that's been left on the table in the last few years. And I think there's a chance for them to come back with the right product, with the right marketing, the problem is the challenge that they have, is that this segment, and this and the entire landscape has only become more competitive with companies like Genesis bringing in, you know, like the gv ad, obviously, I think is a, it's not going to compete directly with this, but they're going to come out with more products that are going to compete with this Lincoln comm, you know, the Coursera we just talked about. So they're from a marketing strategy standpoint, infinity needs to continue to differentiate itself and give people a reason to purchase an infinity and make that argument, you know, make that that that case?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:03  
I mean, infinity, you know, for 30 years now, it's been a fascinating brand. You know, they've, they've created some very interesting vehicles over the years, starting with the original key 45 I don't know, did you ever have a chance to drive a q 45?

Rebecca Lindland  1:28:17  
That probably, when I bought when I was in Boston,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:20  
I must have done that, you know, that the original first generation ki 45, that came out in 1990? Oh, no, no, no, I wouldn't have done I mean, that, that was, you know, when, when BMW or when, when Lexus and Infiniti launched, you know, within a few months of each other in 1990, or 89. Yeah. You know, they came out, Lexus, you know, had much more conservative design, you know, they, they were often compared to, you know, Japanese Mercedes Benz, and infinity was the Japanese BMW. You know, and the, the, the queue 45 had, you know, some some hints of the seven series of the time, but it had that very unique front end with that massive badge belt buckle badge, which, you know, to some people, you know, look kind of goofy, and they certainly had a weird advertising campaign.

Rebecca Lindland  1:29:14  
They didn't show the product. I know, they never showed, it's like one of the biggest misses in advertising for

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:24  
the car was great.

Rebecca Lindland  1:29:25  
It was which makes it all the more ridiculous.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:28  
Don't get me the jeans, you know, the G 35. And Dale, and

Dan Roth  1:29:34  
those cars are classics like, honestly, nobody. People may not think of them yet as classics, but the g 35 g 37. All the FM cars like that. Yeah, fantastic. They're,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:47  
they're the facts. Yeah. Part of that. Yeah.

Dan Roth  1:29:50  
They're a little quaint. Now in terms of like NVH and stuff, they, they, they throw them with energy, but they're super good to drive. There. They Were really, really competitive against, you know, stuff like the three series and they were different. They they were good, solid choice and infinity is kind of walked back from that a little bit.

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:11  
I think. I mean, just anecdotally, if you ask journalists, if you had to choose between a Lexus and Acura and Infiniti, a lot of people would have said infinity, because it just the driving engagement was so friendly back back

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:23  
in the day. Yes, exactly. Right. Yes. today. I don't I don't think you

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:27  
know, I don't think that's the case at all, which is unfortunate. I don't think we pick any

Dan Roth  1:30:30  
of them accurately.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:35  
I'm getting the new TLS next week. So

Dan Roth  1:30:37  
just driving slow and quite loud.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:42  
Alright, any more thoughts on the QX? 55?

Dan Roth  1:30:46  
Looks good. Send them to us, Steven. Come on. Let's get on it.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:49  
Yes. It'll be out next spring. I still want one. All right. So we do have one listener question this week. And that is from David Parker. And David actually heard me on the on the tech guy show with Leo Laporte, which I do every Sunday. And it says, hope you had time, I hope you have time to answer my question. I see the new Mustang has an app with a monthly fee is that what he's referring here to the Maki is that with all electric vehicles just being a regular guy more cost per month plus electric charge? Makes? It just makes me think more. It's like paying for a homeowner's association with no pool. No Park, no common ground helped me with this is this is this what all the V's are doing? And no, actually, you don't have to pay for the app. For for charging, you know, to use the app, I think, Mike, my guess is what David picked up on here is an issue with the active drive assist, which is we've previously talked about this with supercruise. For the first three years of ownership, you will get you know, if you get the active, you'll get free fordpass Connect complimentary for three years. After that, you'll have to subscribe to a fordpass Connect plan to in order to get the map updates and keep active drive assist working functional. So that's what you're going to pay for is the connectivity. But even without that, you know, the app itself, you don't have to pay for that. And in fact, you know, the the what Ford's doing with with Maki, and with other vehicles is they're building in charging into Ford pass. So that when you get your car, when you get it, you get an electric Ford, you just set up your account one time, put in your payment information. And then from then on, when you go to charge your car, you know, if you go to a charger that supports plug in charge, like electrify America, and I think green lots of doing this as well. You just plug plug it in, and it automatically builds you for the charging, you don't have to mess around with punching in your account number or tapping an NFC card on it or anything else. Just plug in it will communicate with your car recognize it, you know, and it's it's all networked. And you know, it goes back and does all the billing authentication automatically, which is actually really nice. So the app itself, and you know, even you know, for things like you know, the phone, the key, you know, using the phone as a key or, you know, pre pre pre conditioning your cabin, you know, if you want if you if it's cold out, you know and you want to get get it warmed up before you go, you can do all that through the app, there's no charge for any of that, that's all free of charge.

Dan Roth  1:33:48  
So what Ford is getting from that though, so anytime the app is free, you are the product. And so what Ford is getting from that is they're getting information about how how things are being used, where you're charging, and they can aggregate that data. And it's, it's not in fairness, per se, it's actually going to wind up making a better consumer experience, because it's building in that research loop, that user testing, they're going to be able to see what people are doing, and then better meet those needs to to a degree, they're still gonna have to ask people, hey, what stuff don't we offer that you wish we did, and that kind of stuff. But I expect that the data and the learning that they get from having the free apps is is very beneficial to even the buyer at the end of the day. And you know, with with having to update stuff, I don't like the idea of a monthly subscription fee to a feature in my car. Although you stuff like the maps for the nav system, you've had to pay to upgrade those for a while, at least in some cars I had to buy used to be you know, you'd have to go to your dealer right and buy a new DVD.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:34:50  
Right, yeah, and you know, for $800 run, load that in and it'll load up your new maps, you know, for 800 bucks, you know every year, which was Yeah, that was crazy, right? I had to do

Dan Roth  1:35:01  
that with the so that you connect in our, our grand cherokee, I wanted to upgrade, update the map. So I bought the update and it turns out like a the car needs to be running be, I've got to update the OS first and then the maps and it all came on a thumb drive and then see it's gonna take two hours, it's gonna sit in the driveway idling. Yeah. And I'm just like, really. So I just haven't gotten around to it yet, but and it was 100 bucks to upgrade the map. So like, there, there is some ongoing cost. And there's really no way to kind of get around that because you know, OTA updates haven't happened and the systems are old enough that they take some labor to update. So actually, the over the air updates are going to be better. Paying for an update isn't probably a big deal paying a subscription fee. I don't, I don't like that, like I bought the thing, I want the feature. But as an automaker, when you're looking at, you know, how the market is shifting, and you're looking to maybe create some recurring revenue, you know, like, take a software sales model, I can see how it's a natural move, it's it's kind of customer hustle. But you know, some people are gonna pony up for it. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:36:14  
yeah, and, you know, I mean, software updates, you know, it costs money to develop them and validate them and distribute them. You mean, there's bandwidth associated with, you know, over the air updates? You know, I mean, when, you know, today, you know, otaa updates are mostly just done. The only company, the first company to do it, you know, bumper to bumper like this was Tesla. And, you know, even the bandwidth costs for Tesla, as their fleet grew larger, have gotten pretty significant, you know, they used to do all the OT updates directly over the cellular connection, the cellular data connection. Now, if you don't buy a premium connectivity package from from Tesla, you have to have your car connected to your Wi Fi, to get those updates because of the cost of the bandwidth. And, you know, the same is going to be true for for everybody else. If you're connected to Wi Fi, you'll get the updates for free. Otherwise, you'll have to have a subscription to the connectivity package. Just I mean, it's like using your phone, you use data on your phone, you got to pay the your cellular provider for that. And carmakers have somebody's got to pay for that as well. And, you know, when you've got 10s of millions of cars on the road that need updates, that's a lot of data. And, you know, something, you know, manufacturers are looking, you know, there's companies looking at you, okay, how can we reduce the size of those updates, you know, so there's not as much data. But you know, one of the nice things about this, you mentioned, you know, having your car set running in the driveway for two hours, while it updates, the OS and the maps, all this stuff on these new vehicles is going to happen in the background, it's just going to happen seamlessly. And you know, it'll download, you know, download the update, when it's all done, it'll install it, and then it'll just depending on what the update is, in some cases, it'll just flip over while you're driving. It'll just switch from one

Dan Roth  1:38:05  
to another. Maybe not while your driver maybe

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:09  
like things like maps, yeah. Okay, man do that. You can do that on the fly. Sure. safety critical systems, those The next time you start the car, it will switch over.

Dan Roth  1:38:18  
Yeah. And it'll come up with all the kind of lawyer screens, you get to click through like nine times, like, Yes, I really want to do this. Yeah. It's gonna be an interesting few years as they get their, their software game together. But I do agree that the the idea of having to subscribe to a feature you already bought is is offensive to me. I don't, I don't like that. I don't expect that my opinion is going to change what happens, but I will do my best to avoid?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:46  
Well, actually, it will, it will have an impact, because you know, manufacturers are going to look at you Okay, what, you know, because they have to figure out how to price this stuff and figure out, Okay, what are the features that people are going to be willing to pay for or not? A great example, was BMW with CarPlay. You know, a couple years ago, they said, okay, you know, you're gonna have to pay $80 a year for Apple CarPlay, if you want to use it in your BMW, and there was so much uproar over that, that, you know, with less, within less than a year, they said, they changed it and went back to Okay, it's just going to be a one time charge when you buy the car, then you don't have to ever pay for it again. Similarly, when they, you know, announced they're doing over the air updates earlier this year. And we think we talked about this, you know, the idea of paying for a subscription to something like heated seats. You know, I talked, I talked to BMW about that. And they said that, you know, it's gonna vary by market, depending on you know, what we think the consumer acceptance is going to be in North America, they probably will not do that by subscription. Well,

Dan Roth  1:39:49  
I mean, it's just like, in some markets, they will that's abusive, though, and in the idea that they would have to roll that out. And like with CarPlay, it just astounds me that there's no better way to figure that out. Then And really frustrating a lot of customers and taking a hit to your, your brand image and like there had to have been a better way to float that trial balloon than just doing it getting everybody agitated.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:40:17  
Yeah, I agree. But that's that's what they did. And you know, but I think it's a lesson that I think everybody in the industry is going to be learning over the next several years is trying to figure out how to do this stuff.

Dan Roth  1:40:28  
All right. Well, I think we have we have answered that and then some so that's about it for for Episode 170. So thanks, everybody, for listening. masses edit Go in peace to love and drive your car. So yeah, you know where to find us. Anyway, we are at feedback at we have angstadt Media. We're on all the social medias and let us know what's up and we'll we'll keep answering the question. So thanks for listening.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:40:59  
Goodbye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai