Dan Roth  0:01  
Coming up on episode 174 wheel bearings so full garage of driving impressions including the Ford F 350 XLT Tremor with the new 7.3 liter V the Land Rover Defender 110 Nissan Kicks Ford Transit t 150, the 2021 Chevrolet Suburban with diesel and the Toyota 4runner TRD Pro. In the news we talked about the zoox robotaxi Boston Dynamics selling to Hyundai and Lordstown motors getting into the tent with camping world. That's all aheadon episode 174 wheel bearings.

Unknown Speaker  0:35  
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Dan Roth  1:06  
Did you know you can support wheel bearings directly head to patreon.com slash wheel bearings, media and you can become a patron today. Your contributions will help fund the platforms and tools we use to bring the podcast to you. And exclusives and improvements are already on the way thanks to your generosity. So if you want to be a part of an automotive podcast, like no other had to patreon.com slash wheel bearings, media.

This is wheel bearings. I'm Dan Roth from Forbes 

Sam Abuelsamid  1:39  
I'm Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights. 

Rebecca Lindland  1:41  
And I'm Rebecca land from Rebecca drives.

Dan Roth  1:45  
So we're all back together again just before Christmas. So I'm not that everybody celebrates Are you guys all set though with your your tree and your festivus planning or Solstice? Whatever it is that you do the three foot tall prelit aluminum tree that we've had for the last couple years is all set up in the living room. Aluminum is that like like a nice shiny

Sam Abuelsamid  2:12  
goldish not really pink.

Unknown Speaker  2:15  
But it's mid century modern 

Unknown Speaker  2:16  
it is it is totally fitting with our mid century modern home. I love it. That's awesome. That fits fits perfectly. And it's up on a little

Sam Abuelsamid  2:27  
sort of end table type of thing. So it's a way from Daisy. It's out of her reach. Oh, yeah. So it's Yeah, it's all good. We still have over here over to my right here in the utility room. You know, I still have several boxes stacked up in the corner of all of the assorted Christmas stuff that we used to haul out every year. You know, when the kids were younger, you know, maybe someday they'll want it more than likely to end up donating it somewhere.

Dan Roth  2:57  
I don't know what you do. He says what my parents did is you weaponize their childhoods wait for them to get married and are settled and they get their own houses and they have their own families and you show up with your children. You're like, What? What am I gonna do with this? They're all broken. It's great. So it's now and went from their attic to my attic. It's great.

Rebecca Lindland  3:24  
So I have a unique but happy problem. I actually this is the first year and in the eight years that I've been in this house that I do, I do not have a Christmas tree. Mostly because my plants my outdoor plants that I then have to bring inside. They grew so much over the summertime that they are enormous and occupy three of them occupy the corner that is normally reserved for the Christmas tree. And I've tried to move them but the one it's like it's this little it's this kind of like fiddle lamp fiddle tree called fiddle leaf tree. And it started out at about four feet when I first bought them a couple years ago. It grew to six feet the first year and now it's eight feet tall. And I really I it's so gigantic. So that's my de facto Christmas tree doesn't have any like

Sam Abuelsamid  4:19  
I was just gonna ask if you decorate there's at least I

Rebecca Lindland  4:21  
can't really decorate them but I did I did get I have these two huge Reese for outside so I got that done. And I have lights on outside the house. It's very festive outside. On the flip side, my brother David I went over to his two bedroom loft apartment yesterday. And in his son's room alone are nine trees of various sizes.

Dan Roth  4:49  
Like like real trees or trees.

Rebecca Lindland  4:52  
It's all fig trees. Okay, do you have a real tree they have a gorgeous, huge I've no idea where he found this because, Dan as you all know trees have been scarce this year and hard to find and not in great condition. And of course, David has this most gorgeous tree. And then the boys wanted a forest in their bedroom. And so it was awesome. He put those in. And I basically just walked around. And while our childhood was not weaponized, he does has a have a lot of stuff, because this is the first year that my mom does didn't decorate. Yeah, she doesn't have her house anymore. So it is actually it's nice to see like a lot of, you know, the what we used as kids. Between, like old friends. Yeah, exactly.

Dan Roth  5:35  
Yeah, I say I say weaponized in the most sarcastic. I feel like this. I have a problem communicating right now.

Sam Abuelsamid  5:46  
It's just the nature of consensus, the trauma that you had with your own tree this weekend. You know, I can understand why.

Dan Roth  5:58  
Yeah, so they, we every week we did we actually went and we found a beautiful tree. And then it was nice and full. And it just it gave up. I don't know why. But it's it's 2020. And, like, we just bought by the living room and just to see it like, dripping and dripping. And it's things started falling off of it and like something's not right with that tree. And then you flick on the light. And you'd see it's like it's kind of brown and it's very crispy. Like that. That needs to Yeah, that's, that's that's gonna catch on. Yeah, so I'm still debating whether we, we give it a Viking funeral in the backyard and just just light it up and watch it burn. But we had to scramble and find another tree. This week's vehicle was very helpful. That way, they will just toss it in the back. So

Rebecca Lindland  6:47  
what did you have this week? Why don't you go first for once?

Dan Roth  6:49  
Well, so I have a an F 150 a no, I'm sorry, I have an F 350 XL t with the trimmer man. I haven't spent the full week with it. But overall, you know, this is a is a great truck. The Ford Super Duty SUV evolved to be pretty credible and very formidable competition for the rest of the market. It's big, it's pretty quiet. It's a little stiff, because it's the F 350. So it has a solid front axle. And suspension is designed to carry basically, our entire so the biggest thing that I was really interested in experiencing was the new 7.3 meter view, which is a new push rod design. He understood he was very excited about this engine, not because it's a truck engine, but because it's a new large displacement push rod v eight from Ford that has done overhead cam modular v aids for a very long time, you know, 25 years now. And it's fantastic. It's it's really torquey it's really well behaved. It's not super efficient here. I'm sure it's as efficient as it can be. I don't expect that any other engine other than a diesel would be any more efficient. I'm getting about 11 miles. Well,

Sam Abuelsamid  8:13  
you know, considering it, that truck probably weighs close to three tons empty. Yeah, that's, that's actually not that. You know, it's not unexpected, I wouldn't say it's not terrible, certainly not expected.

Dan Roth  8:27  
Right. And that's that's how I'm some kind of sanguine about it. I just, it's right about what I would expect. If you take it a little easier. I'm sure you can get a little better fuel economy, we had snow as well. And when you when you have snow, it kind of beats up on your fuel economy a bit because you spend a lot of time idling or moving around. And that's kind of what went on was, as you clear the driveway, the cars idle and clear off a little bit and stuff like that. So it's probably partially my fault that we're not seeing at least 12 or 13. Which is a big joke when you're getting

Rebecca Lindland  9:00  
10 20% better. Right?

Dan Roth  9:03  
So it's a lovely truck, even an XL t trim, which is just basically one step above their their work grade the XL, so it has cloth seats and stuff, but it has the premium package. So it's got your the the screen with it's not my forte touch I keep wanting to call sync three. Yeah. Which is nice, because it's not actually a huge screen. It's a it's a decent size has gone to like Yeah, I think so eight inch across, you know that everything has gone to these enormous screens, they figured out how to put more stuff in it and not necessarily make it more usable. And that's, that's the balance that we're going to be constantly seeking is yes, you have a large screen, but how do you make it useful, the smaller screen limits what you can put on it so it's a little bit more focus and seek three is compatible with CarPlay. So I was mostly using CarPlay. But when you flip back to the initial Added stuff, it's also pretty good to use. So that's nice to have in an Excel T which, you know, again that was like a previously a luxury feature. Where you you see some of these checks when you go shopping they have like the tiny little screen that's got a giant bezel because you know, you You didn't buy the option screen. So you can get a lot of stuff in this this is probably the meat of the segment to the meat of their, their trims is their super duper. Yeah, yeah, um, because it's a little nicer, it has more options. Xcel is really limited by by design, you know, that's if you just want the basic truck that is gonna work hard all its life. That's an X out it's

Sam Abuelsamid  10:43  
the x and y cells would be the ones that you know, your local parks department, you know, is hauling around their lawn mowers and other equipment, you know, to, you know, as they do their tour around all the parks every week to mow the lawns and all the other stuff that sounds lovely. You know, we got to cut to parks in our neighborhood you know, and every Tuesday morning you know I see you know a couple of you know from the township parks department I see the you know, to the you know, super duty's parked out there you know by done by the one to the south of us you know with their trailers with the the lawn the lawn mowers and they head out there they mow the one they and they they leave the trucks there and they actually just try to drive the mowers like three four blocks down to the other part and mold that one and then drive the motors back and loaded back up to go to the next Park.

Dan Roth  11:34  
I kind of say my favorite my one of my favorite Jobs was landscaping.

Rebecca Lindland  11:39  
I need landscaping done let you can come to the tree house okay

Sam Abuelsamid  11:42  
that was that was actually my my worst job of all time but it had more to do with the guy I was working for then then the job itself the job itself was hard work but

Dan Roth  11:57  
I think that's why I liked it that for the first so minor tangent I worked a summer at Mystic Seaport in in mystic Connecticut, uh, doing doing the grounds stuff. And so there were a couple of guys on the crew that had been one was a welder and the other was grinder at electric boat and so they had worked together and they gotten used to that eby union job kind of cadence to their day. They taught me all kinds of hilarious things. And occasionally, when they needed something fixed on their truck, I would bring my tools in and fix it they would buy me lunch and then it I got it's really hard to cut lawns at 2pm in the hot sun after you had an entire large sun and a couple of beers at lunch I learned a bit that year anyway

Sam Abuelsamid  12:52  
something else

Dan Roth  12:53  
I didn't didn't didn't have

Sam Abuelsamid  12:57  
the other thing that probably contributed to your relatively low fuel economy is the tires you know because that trimmer packages that are off road package and it's got you know these big nobly All Terrain tires on it, which you know are not exactly great for low rolling resistance Good. Great for great for traction and you know, snow and ice but not so much for rolling resistance.

Dan Roth  13:17  
Yeah, it's but you know, they're also not all that sketchy in terms of like sidewall flex or anything. It's still a pretty well behaved truck for as far as large trucks go, you know, I've had it out on the highway. I've had it around town and it pays pretty well. Even with all terrain, tires and extra hot right height. It does sting in all conditions.

Sam Abuelsamid  13:40  
How much how much was it?

Dan Roth  13:42  
66,000 Oh, so it's not terrible. not terrible,

Rebecca Lindland  13:48  
relatively speaking. Yeah.

Dan Roth  13:50  
Right. I think the trimmer package is the biggest cost there. The 7.3 liter V is about 18 $100 I think it's a 17 $100 1750 option, which again, okay, you're going to spend a lot more on the deal.

Rebecca Lindland  14:03  
It's a lot. A lot of truck for that price. A lot of capability. Yeah, right. Well, it's

Sam Abuelsamid  14:07  
just a lot of truck period.

Rebecca Lindland  14:09  
Yeah, right.

Dan Roth  14:10  
And so the trimmer package has ramps so they they're included, they have a they stow on the inside of the bed nice and they have like they're locked in they have like they come with locks and cables to lock them in. But if I needed to load something like an ATV or the snowblower or something like that, I could use the ramps that the factory supplied ramps, drive it up into the bed and then stow everything so that's that's nice. The last time I needed to move something. I think I had a gladiator or RAM and I needed to fabricate my own.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:44  
I've done that before to

Dan Roth  14:45  
yeah to get a generator up in it. And so that's nice that they recognize the truck is kind of high, it's very tall. And they they accommodate that. The other thing that the trimmer package has is skid plates in neath so you can bash it off road a little bit more with with less worry. It's a little bit long for my tastes for taking it off road. I prefer stuff that's that's short and really maneuverable. The Wrangler the Tudor Wrangler, but that's really not

Sam Abuelsamid  15:18  
that this is more the brute force support approach to off roading you know, it's, it's got enough grunt and sheer momentum. You know that it can just go it can go through just about anything anyway, it makes its own tree. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Dan Roth  15:32  
I don't, I don't think you'd have too many complaints getting it off road. You know, it'll, it'll, it'll keep you stuck. That's always my concern.

Rebecca Lindland  15:42  
So it's interesting, because I was just looking back Nicole wakeland, who lives up near you. She had the 2020 Ford F 250. tremor, and in the platinum and she wrote a review for me on Rebecca drives.com. But and she did her price was almost $85,000. Yep. And two that had the 6.7 liter V eight turbo. And that's the diesel diesel, right.

Dan Roth  16:07  
Yep. So the diesel is $10,000 off. The Platinum tends to start around. 70

Sam Abuelsamid  16:16  
Yeah, I have the leather and you know, all the luxury trim. So you know, they're they're completely tricked out.

Rebecca Lindland  16:26  
Okay, because then she also had the King Ranch, the F 250 King Ranch trimmer. And that was that had the 7.3 liter V eight. And that was 70. So basically, I mean, there's, there's a broad range that it started at 59 and change, and then test it out at 70. So there's a broad range, as we've often said, but it's interesting. They really have a truck for everybody. It seems like

Dan Roth  16:47  
Yeah, I was that's what I was gonna say is they really they've covered all the bases, right? They've got this one that's 66 and then you could go 70 8090 you could spend however much money you want us, right? Yeah, and you know, I had the I had an F 350 Platinum earlier in the year, it wasn't a tremor. But that is that's a lovely truck, too. I really think that with Ford's especially for me, personally, the super duties are where it's at, like, that's, that's, that's a truck, yeah. it no matter how nice you make it inside, like it's definitely outfitted for hard work. And you know, that doesn't just count the the F series The F 150. But really, like these are much more serious pieces. And you can can see it in the way they're, they're designed and built and they're very thoughtfully created for people who are going to use them just for everything all the time and it just needs to be ready for it where like an F 150 or any kind of 1500 series truck they're still thoughtful but they kind of feel a little bit more like a family car than a work vehicle and so, these these are definitely a little more hardcore

Sam Abuelsamid  18:03  
and and you know, you know, these these super duties you know are set up for work you know, when you look at the the options list and you know one of the one of the things you find on there is the you know the the cng prep package you know so this is something you know that fleets will often use you know they you know they'll have they'll use either cng or propane fuel yeah because it's a lot cheaper and when when you order it with the prep package you know the the engines have hardened valve seats and you know it's got some some stuff built in from the factory you know, to hook up to the fuel lines and everything you know for for gaseous fuels and then it gets shipped directly from the factory to whatever upfitter you choose and they they install this the gas tanks and other equipment in there you know before it gets shipped to the dealer for delivery and that's that's something that almost no consumers ever going to buy that this is the type of thing that only fleet companies you know, the fleet operators would ever use. Yeah.

Dan Roth  19:11  
Right I think to a fleet is gonna put up with the hassle of fueling that way and it's not a hassle for them depending on what kind of Fleet they are, you know, versus someone like you or me going to where we're going to refill our cng cng I mean there's certainly places you can do it but it's it's a little bit fewer and further between. Yeah, dude. So when we run on cng does do you pay road tax on on compressed natural gas

Sam Abuelsamid  19:43  
if we use it as more of I wonder if that's state state that this is dairies handy? And I think you do you do pay some road tax when you're using cng as a fuel as a road fuel, so yeah, you do you do pay the fuel taxes on it, but it is less than Because it you know, it's usually it's a percent it's typically, it depends on the state. I mean, sometimes it's a flat, you know, per gallon or per gallon equivalent. Other times it's a percentage. You know, and, and cng is cheaper than gasoline or diesel, but you also get less range on it. So, you know, you're gonna, you're not going to get as many miles per per gallon equivalent with cng, as you would with gasoline. It's probably a little cleaner. That's a lot cleaner. And that's a lot cleaner than diesel. Oh, for sure. But but it's it runs, there's less, less emission, far less emissions from cng, or propane enter is from even burning gasoline.

Dan Roth  20:41  
Yeah, back back many, many years ago, my grandfather, he was a sort of maintenance head for for fleet. And he went to school to do diesel conversions. This is back in the late 60s. So they would convert the diesels to propane. He was a big proponent to that. So it's still going on, and everybody's looking for an edge. But so the other car I had Rebecca, I wanted to talk to you about this. I wanted to compare my notes. So I had the Land Rover Defender one. Okay. And I know you drove that you were on the like the little media probably was

Rebecca Lindland  21:20  
I was on the

Dan Roth  21:21  
front. Yes. So I went into it a little skeptical. I shot look.

Rebecca Lindland  21:28  
Sorry. I digress.

Unknown Speaker  21:30  
Wow.

Sam Abuelsamid  21:33  
Dan, being skeptical of anything.

Dan Roth  21:36  
You know, cuz you see the defender on the, you know, pictures on the internet, as we all are doing right now and go Okay, it's a it's a big British Honda element. You know, the first thing that got me was the desires one

Sam Abuelsamid  21:51  
of those talks or hear you say that? Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  21:54  
but the accent makes all the difference. The British part of it.

Dan Roth  21:58  
Yeah, Stuart might get mad at me. But it's the second half of that story, though, is Stuart, if you're listening. It's one of those cars that you look at. And the more you The more you kind of spend time with it, the more the design gives back to you. It evokes the old landrovers. Very, very well, but it's not retro, like overly retro. It's not cloying. It's really well done there. And it's very clever. The details have been all very well thought out. They really, they put a lot of effort and clearly affection into the design of it. So that was the first thing that got me was Okay, it looks really great. And it's really, really well done. And then I got inside and again, the design continues inside. It's beautifully designed in the cabin. I have some complaints about the controls. So I was interested to see what how you felt about it. But what was your experience with I know, it's been a little while. And you seemed overall pretty positive. The last time we talked about the defense?

Rebecca Lindland  23:13  
Yeah, I thought so. So I did. I was on the media launch back in September. And I we actually got an excessive amount of driving in it because we went over up to the Landrover school in Vermont. But because of COVID, we couldn't stay in Vermont. And there's literally a hotel like five minutes from the course. We had to drive all the way back to Saratoga Springs, New York, which was an hour back, had dinner next morning, got up at a godforsaken hour to get back to an hour back to where we were. So we got a good extra 100 and probably 10 miles, just that driving. And then we drove it down from Vermont down, I stopped, they asked permission. I said, we never I never drive by my house on a dry program. Can I run in and show my sisters that I've met my mom and stuff. So I stopped in Connecticut. And then I had to continue driving down to New Jersey, which is where we were ending. So I think it was almost 506 105 and 600 miles that we drove over the course of like, two, two and a half days. And it was it was intense because we started in New Jersey drove all the way up to Vermont. I mean, it was it was a lot but it was great though, but you really get a feel for the car when you're driving it for hours on end like that. And I think it was just it was so comfortable to drive. It was really yeah, you know, it really was they did such a great job with it on the road. And then of course off road was just a total blast. I mean that thing was more than happy to go wherever we want and to your earlier point Dan about a compact vehicle. You know, it it fit where it needed to fit. And what's interesting about the school that they have up in Vermont, there's three of them around the country. There's one at Greenbrier, South Carolina, and there's one out in the Monterey, Carmel area in California, where the rich people are. Yeah, exactly.

Up in Vermont, and you know, it's not a, it's kind of reminds me of the of the Jeep trails out in Michigan. It's not cultivated, it is wild. It is it is nature it is whatever happens if it rains, and everything's money, that's what you're dealing with. So it's not something that it's planned. And they've, you know, they've deliberately put things to show off the vehicle. This is just these are trails, and you're out there. So, you know, there was definitely some times when the vehicle got stuck. And depending upon the driver skill, could they get it out or not? I'd for the most part, we could, but there was some rocking back and forth that needed to happen with the crew and stuff. But it was great. I mean, and again, it reminded me of the Jeep, the Wrangler for door in that, you know, it does incredibly well. offroad. But it's actually really improved on road, it's quiet, well behaved. I do, we did have some issues with the infotainment system. But I mean, that's yeah, that's pretty much always happens.

Dan Roth  26:28  
All right, no, no, it's not just you. Cuz I think that that, like I heard echoes of view in my head as I was, like, a quote, I have to press a button to get the fan to adjust the fan and like the sun in the infotainment is a lot better than it has been in jaguars and Land Rovers. And you can move the icons around. So eventually, you can customize it. So what you want is actually at your fingertips, right?

Rebecca Lindland  26:55  
It does take some time. I mean, I made a note of it in my review about multifunctional center console control. And you're right it took you have to spend time, as we're finding more and more with almost every every infotainment system, you have to spend the time to customize it, you've got to spend the time to get the to get it set up the way that you use it. I will say the cameras were amazing. I mean, they were they were really, really helpful. And especially off road, you could get the camera angles that you want it but it's a nice big screen. I do love that interior. I

Dan Roth  27:33  
thought that was just gorgeous. But I loved the way the dash is sort of scooped out. And then there's this grab handles on either side. Again, it's just really thoughtful details. And I didn't have the highest trim level. But it was still nice. And it's just it is it's quiet. It's a lot quieter than I thought it would be especially given that it's the defender it's supposed to be there. They're sort of most rugged.

Rebecca Lindland  27:59  
Yeah, so I had actually the third of six trends. So I had a very much a middle of the road. It was $71,000 but it wasn't. And I took the 3.0 liter mild hybrid.

Dan Roth  28:12  
Okay, I don't mind had the 2.0 might have the six. Um, and that engine is fantastic. Yeah, put just a little bit of growl back into the cabin. So it's it has that sound. But it's really really torquey and smooth and plenty powerful. So, I again, like this is this is one of those things where I was really surprised at how well it all came off and came together. I knew it was going to be nice and capable. But I'm very impressed with the way they've they've updated the defender because it really now it straddles that line between being a luxury family off road or luxury family four by four, I guess. And you know, something that could really go deep into the woods. Yes. And that's, you know, it can do both of those the old defenders, you could do it put your family wouldn't necessarily be as comfortable.

Rebecca Lindland  29:15  
Well, that Yeah. And that's they really have done a great job with that. The materials that they use were lovely. I mean, I just I think that they they honor the past but recognize the present in how people use vehicles today.

Dan Roth  29:31  
Yeah, I do that and that, um, the multifunction controls on the Central Coast. So to explain those a little bit. So they've got because the, the design came a little bit before function in some ways. And and I appreciate that it's got two dials. That keep it simple. And they've packed a bunch of functionality into the dials. So you've got your ventilated seats, heated seats, controls and there what you have to do You push on it and then rotate. I, I liked that by the time I was done with it as if that's, that's clever. One of them, you actually have to press another button and you get the fan, interior fan, most people are going to leave in auto. So that's kind of a non issue. And then if you want it to direct airflow, there's another button and then it brings it up on the screen. So then you can direct where the airflow goes again, though most people are gonna, gonna leave in auto so it's usually not an issue unless, like what happened when when I had it it snows and you you kind of want some control over where that that stuff goes. It had the had the the heated windshield.

Rebecca Lindland  30:43  
Oh, nice. Did you get

Dan Roth  30:46  
the show? Oh, yeah, it was fine. You know, it's one of those things that you just you do that and it's it's fine. So it was you know, the the biggest complaints I really had were the center controls and once you get used to those, it's not a huge deal. And then that side hinged rear door. Yes. So you know, instead of like a top hinge tailgate, but that's I think that's that's a defender trademark and you're not going to get rid of that. The door. It just it has a gas strapped on it. So it's a little heavy to close because of what the struts doing. But plenty for me. You know, there's three rows of seats. Each row has its own HVC outlet and fan and he controls for the seats. And so it has the little the windows, what are they the Alpine windows? They call them in the roof?

Unknown Speaker  31:35  
Yes.

Dan Roth  31:36  
Yeah. It's, you know, it for mine was 75. Oh, wow. Okay, I didn't, didn't find that overly pricey. That was that was less expensive than I thought it would be? Yes, it's a premium car. So you're going to spend money on it. Anyway. But yeah, I was very pleasantly surprised by how much I liked it. Because I recognize this skepticism in my

Rebecca Lindland  32:01  
show is interesting. I when I first got pictures of it on, and it has towards the what I would consider the blind spot. So behind the C pillar, are these kind of plaques that I was worried about would hinder visibility, but they actually don't at all. And I was very pleasantly surprised by that. You know what I mean? On this side of the vehicle,

Dan Roth  32:25  
first of the panel has the Land Rover riding stuff.

Rebecca Lindland  32:30  
And I just I was definitely concerned about that. But it was a non issue completely. And the other thing that they have this really cool is this x see what i x top trim that goes really full on interior luxury. So the one that I had had a combination of leather and cloth

Dan Roth  32:52  
I have that is Roman It was love, right?

Rebecca Lindland  32:53  
But then the x you have you ever seen the x pop trim, it may have just been only that they had at the event. So the rollout of this vehicle has really been negatively impacted by by COVID. Because they had started to productive, they started production, they had to stop it. And then they kind of got into this, like, sort of what are we putting out now 2020 or 2021. So that the extra you know, the extra is is I believe it's it's going to be available for 2021. But, but if that's full on flat luxury on the interior, I'm very, very luxurious, very high end leather. So that's a different animal altogether. So they've got you know, yeah, and

Dan Roth  33:40  
they really do they cover all the bases. So yeah, I mean, this is one of those biggest surprises so far of the year. It's really well done. Doesn't suppose I hated to see it leave. I do want to recognize that true to the sort of Landrover myth and legend there have been some reports of reliability issues. I got a check engine light Well, I had it I cleared it stayed cleared you know, I I kind of almost hate to bring it up other than to say like, it could happen and I'm sure they're not unaware of it. Yeah, sure that they know what's going on and like, was it TfL car had some some ongoing saga with their defender? Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  34:33  
The Motor Trend Truck of the Year though.

Dan Roth  34:37  
Yeah, and I think it deserves its

Rebecca Lindland  34:39  
SUV of the year I'm sorry. SUV. For our friends at Motor Trend.

Dan Roth  34:48  
Yeah. So I've babbled enough. Like I'm looking at this like people are gonna have sat through a half hour. I'm Sam you You know,

Sam Abuelsamid  35:02  
we should, you know, share that joy with the rest of the world.

Rebecca Lindland  35:07  
Along with you, Sam was the one that gives

Dan Roth  35:10  
him a chance to talk. Yeah. What do you been driving Sam? So

Sam Abuelsamid  35:13  
I've had several different vehicles over the past week, you know, a couple of them just for short stints, you know, one of the things that automakers have been doing recently, in many cases is Virtual Media drives, you know, instead of flying people out to, to various locations, they have been sending the vehicles out to their fleets and dropping them off, you know, people's homes, you know, for one to two some cases, three day short loans, and you know, to do these first impressions of the vehicles, and then later on, we'll get them for the usual one week loans. So, in the past week, I've had the 2021 Nissan Kicks, and the 2021 Kia Sorento hybrid, and I'll get to those in a moment. But first I want to start off with the Ford Transit t 150 cargo van which got you know, it got it worked out that my art older daughter was moving out of the house again and so they the transit worked out perfectly for moving all her stuff into her new apartment Well, almost perfectly. And but it had the challenges had nothing to do with the transit itself. And so the the the one I had was the T 150, which is the base model. That's that's the so called light duty version, you can also get the T 250 and t 350, which are technically class two class three and class three vehicles or medium duty vans, you know, so their gross vehicle weight rating is above 8500 pounds. So the

Dan Roth  36:56  
so is this, this is the the the cargo This is

Sam Abuelsamid  36:59  
the cargo van. Yeah, so no seats inside, this was the the transits are available in three body likes. So two different wheel bases, the longer wheelbase is available with two different with an extended body on it. So this was the the long wheelbase, but the shorter body, so the the mid, the mid size, and also freedom you can get at three different roof heights. So you get the short roof, the mid roof and the high roof. The one I had was the mid roof, you know, so this is a consider this the the the Ford two seater that you may not necessarily want but it's sometimes the one you need. So just the just the two front seats, the rest of it is just one giant cavern of empty space to do with as you will fill it up, you know, and so most customers that buy these things are usually various types of Fleet operators, plumbers, electricians, you know, trade trades, people that you know, will, you know, they'll get the van and they will have it sent to an outfitter, and it'll be outfitted with a bunch of racks on the inside for further tools and the parts that they're carrying. Things like that. You know, in my case, you know, this one just had some basic plastic panels on either side to minimize the resonance inside. And actually, this thing is actually surprisingly quiet to drive. Given that it is a giant steel box on wheels.

Dan Roth  38:32  
That was not my experience.

Rebecca Lindland  38:36  
So you're terrible. You're in the whole cabin. Is that right? Yeah. Okay,

Dan Roth  38:41  
wrong. It's, it's so where did you drive it?

Sam Abuelsamid  38:45  
I drove it around the the Ann Arbor area.

Dan Roth  38:48  
So like a town? So I didn't

Sam Abuelsamid  38:50  
I didn't, I didn't drive it on the highway.

Dan Roth  38:53  
Yeah, it's loud on the highway.

Sam Abuelsamid  38:54  
Sure. Again, you know, given you know that what you have is a giant steel box on wheels. It's actually not as bad as you might expect.

Dan Roth  39:05  
I'll give you that most

Sam Abuelsamid  39:06  
of the time, you know, these things end up in normal day to day operations are not driving around empty, you know, they're usually full of stuff.

Dan Roth  39:14  
Right? So you get all the percussion from the tools because everything jingles jangles

Rebecca Lindland  39:19  
I would like to see a cutaway comparing it to like the economy line.

Sam Abuelsamid  39:23  
Oh, and always much better. Way, way, way better than on a line.

Rebecca Lindland  39:26  
I mean, from insulation and NVH standpoint.

Sam Abuelsamid  39:30  
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, the body design, you know, this is a much more, you know, the common line, you know, as a design that basically goes back to the 1970s you know, an old body on frame design, you know, these are, this is a unibody design, you know, it's rear wheel drive, but you know, it has a relative a much lower floor because it's a unibody there's no frame, no separate frame underneath. You know, and getting in and out, you know, as I was loading this thing up with with my daughter stuff and then unloading it. You know, the bumper height is at a reasonable height, it's very easy to step up, you know, into the, into the back much more so than trying to get into an Econoline, you know, the mid roof, you know, I'm 511, I was able to stand up inside. Yeah, and, you know, loaded up all her stuff, you know, got it all loaded up in one trip, you know, including a big queen size, wooden bed frame that that I made for her. And it, it just, you know, look fit everything in there beautifully. You know, but again, you know, with the, you know, the mid or the high roof, you know, you do have to keep in mind that there's a lot of places where these things will not fit because of their height, you know, the building that that my daughter was moving into the brand new apartment building, we got their turn, as it turns out, she was actually the very first resident moving into this building. And not everything was working there when we got there, including the freight elevator

Dan Roth  41:01  
here with not not anything

Sam Abuelsamid  41:02  
yeah, nothing Well, nothing specific. But, you know, the freight elevator is was right next to the garage door. So this building has a built in parking garages, you know, on the bottom couple levels. And the so we couldn't get couldn't use the freight elevator. And the other elevators, some of the other elevators were also non functional when we got there. So to use an elevator, we would have had to go a very long distance, carrying the stuff to the elevator, and then carrying it from the elevator to her apartment. And so I've said Okay, well let's see if I can get the van into the garage and just drive it up because her her apartment doors actually not far from the from the garage from the garage. And fortunately, as most garages do garages had do, you know, it has a little foam bar that's hanging from the entrance, you know, if you hit this bar, you're too tall to fit inside the garage. And of course, there's a pull up now I felt I felt the foam on the roof there, you know, is eight feet eight feet two inches tall and the mid even the mid roof transit is a little more than eight feet two inches above the ground. So that wasn't gonna work. So we ended up parking it outside. And then using her car and my wife's car, she's got a Honda Fit, my wife's got a civic and we just did relayed we move the boxes from from Vans into the back of the tube on a hatchback Drolma and park them right by the door to the garage. And then only it was only like six steps up, you know, to basically to her apartment car. So it wasn't wasn't too bad, but, but you do have to keep things like that into account, the van I had was, again, the had the standard 3.5 liter gas engine, you can also get it with a diesel, or with the 3.5 liter EcoBoost v six. So I had the naturally aspirated three, five, you know,

Dan Roth  43:01  
with that engine, I had it with the EcoBoost and, you know, it's it's plenty fine. It's

Sam Abuelsamid  43:04  
It's It's adequate, you know, for for driving around town, you know, this is this is you can still get, you know, I think up to a 10,000 pound total, you know, g VW rating, even with the base three, five, you know, so they have different packages that you can get? Yeah. So it's, it's adequate. It's not particularly fuel efficient, you know, driving around town, you know, I got about 13 miles per gallon with this thing. So, you know, that's not impressive. But, yeah, we talked a couple of weeks ago about the new for the E transit that's coming up about a year from now. And, you know, for the types of, you know, commercial customers that use this as a, you know, use this kind of cargo van, I think that's actually going to be a really fantastic option for them. Yeah, because if you look at you know, the the operating costs for an electric version of a van like this, compared to, you know, getting 12 or 13 miles per gallon around town, and this, you know, this was, you know, part at least part of the time was driving around empty. And, you know, this was not driving on the highway where the aerodynamics of this thing you know, are going to be a problem. You know, I think that I think that the, the electric version of this is going to be a really great option for customers. But even you know, even the gas version, you know, it's, it's just for what it's designed to do, it's, you know, this is a great package, you know, to something that can swallow up huge amounts of stuff visibility forward visibility is great in this thing because the way the front slopes down you can really see out of it easily. You know, there's lots of cupholders in interesting places. You know, on this thing, you know, for the the big old coffee mugs that the kind of people are going to be operating these things you know, probably driving around with it's got a

Dan Roth  45:00  
Just say like one of those big Yeti things 12 ounce beers right into the bottom. And you put the lid on saying,

Sam Abuelsamid  45:10  
I'll take your word for that.

Rebecca Lindland  45:11  
It sounds like, you know, we've talked about this touched on this before that Ford has done a lot of really good thinking about how people use their vehicles. Yeah, you

Sam Abuelsamid  45:21  
know, and the transit, you know, is the the latest generation it's the replacement for the the old economy lines. This is based on the kind of van that they've been using in Europe doing in Europe for for several decades now. So this is the latest generation of that vehicle, the Europe the European style van, which is quite different from the traditional Econoline you know, Chevy Express type of vans, you know, the old dodge vans, you know, the closest, you know, the the comparable vehicles that are available here are the, the the Mercedes Sprinter and the Ram promaster which are, you know, similar in size and specs, you know, again have that they have that relatively low floor, the the different roof heights, different lengths that are available. So, these, you know, these are the ideal large commercial vans. And I think this is why, you know, the kinds of thinking that, you know, Ford has put into this is why the transit is the best selling commercial van in the world. And it's, it's a it's a really good vehicle.

Dan Roth  46:29  
I, I thought, um, I think that's the reason why it sells so well, too, is that I think that drivers, like them, yeah, no, you drive, drive an E series, and you're like, Okay, it's a van, it's, it's that consistent sort of truck based van experience, but the transit just takes it a little easier on you, you know, right, especially as a 150, it rides better and handles way better, then an E Series van, so it doesn't beat the hell out of you quite as much as the the truck based van. And by not having that full frame that capacity goes into cargo. Yep. Instead, it's

Sam Abuelsamid  47:06  
easy to get in and out of, you know, as you said, it's comfortable is good visit good forward visibility at least. Yeah, I mean, you know, the cargo vans don't have side windows, but this one did have the, the tailgate, the rear doors that had the windows in there. So straight back, you know, if it's not full, you can, you can get visibility straight out the back. And one other thing with the back doors, you know, they swing out to the side, by default, you know, they swing out about a little over 90 degrees, you know, from from the back, you know, so they're basically straight out the back, but you can also there's a latch on either side, so you can unlatch those, and fold it all the way around the side. So, you know, for for applications where you know, perhaps you have to load, you know, back up to a loading ramp or, or something like that, you can fold the doors all the way around and back, all the way up to a ramp, which can be very handy in many cases.

Dan Roth  48:03  
Yeah, it's, you know, for it has, I think, overall with their business, they've taken a really hard look at where their customers come from, and where they can be mostly assured of recurring sales. And that seems to be the commercial market, they've made a pretty deep investment on commercial customers with everything they're doing. And you really see that move to supporting fleets with the transit, which is with the transit itself. And then with the different options, they offer for up fitting. And they really know what those folks are doing with those vehicles, they're designing the vehicles to fit those needs, even the new f150 right with the hybrid and the generator on board and the tailgate that you can use as a workbench and stuff they've they're really tuned into, I think the people who are regular buyers on a much tighter cycle than just every day civilians, right, who keep their cars for like 12 years. So I feel like Ford at a certain point in the last five years, took a real hard look at you know, how are we going to keep this thing going. And they realized or just recommitted to supporting their commercial customers with commercial product, because that's going to be an ongoing stream of sales for them that they can count on even when the economy turns down. You may see a reduction in some of those those purchases, but it'd be a percentage, not a complete like flatline. Yeah, you know, so it's a really interesting sort of business case, but the product itself, it's not a sexy

Sam Abuelsamid  49:51  
part of the business, but it's a part of the business. It's a really important part.

Rebecca Lindland  49:58  
Right, it's steady. It's profitable. And I think, you know, we're not Wall Street analysts, but I do think that Wall Street has not given them credit. Oh my gosh.

Dan Roth  50:09  
But, you know,

Rebecca Lindland  50:10  
I do think that wall, she hasn't necessarily given them credit for that kind of protecting that revenue stream as well as they have. Yeah,

Dan Roth  50:19  
yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they can afford to offer those vehicles at a almost at a lower margin. Because there's a lot less, in some ways, there's less production variety, all of the variety in the commercial vehicles tends to come from the upfitters. Yeah, not from

Sam Abuelsamid  50:36  
although there's accurate, there's, you know, there's a fair amount of variety in terms of, you know, the the body lengths and the power trains, you know, like,

Dan Roth  50:45  
that's not that expensive.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:46  
No, it's not, but, you know, you do have you do have multiple configurations there again, you know, but it's something that you need for those customers, you know, that, you know, some customers don't need the extra height, roof nails, they know, they can get by with the regular standard roof, you know, some need a longer body, some don't. So, you know, having the having that flexibility in there definitely helps.

Dan Roth  51:09  
Yeah, so,

Sam Abuelsamid  51:10  
so the next vehicle I had, could almost fit in the back of the transit, which is the, the 2021 Nissan Kicks. And, you know, we've talked about the kicks before, you know, this is Nissan's entry level, crossover, you know, much like the, the Hyundai venue and you know, a number of others, you know, at this this entry point, you know, that start, you know, have a starting price under $20,000 it got a mile refresh for 2021, you know, so, the core stuff, you know, is the same as it was it still has the same 1.6 liter, naturally aspirated four cylinder with a CVT, 122 horsepower, which is adequate, you know, it's the same, you know, the kicks is based on the same platform as the versa. So this is, you know, the kicks is essentially the replacement for the old Versa hatchback because people weren't buying those, but they're buying quite a few kicks. And, you know, for the most part, you know, it hasn't changed dramatically on the outside, you know, the, the big thing, you know, new front facia with, it's 2020. So it must have a larger grille. But, you know, I think, I think the proportions on this thing, it actually looks looks good, you know, I don't have a complaint with the size of the grill, you know, if anything, the grill on the old one was maybe a little small, you know, left a lot of sheet metal there around this girl doesn't look bad. No, it looks good. So, you know, I'm content with that, you know, a little bit of re sculpting on the rear facia, you know, but nothing, nothing dramatic, new new headlights, the

Rebecca Lindland  52:51  
different colors and

Sam Abuelsamid  52:52  
different color combinations, you know, things like that. So, you know, the kind of stuff that you know, you do for a minor mid cycle update, the more important stuff is really on the inside, where, again, it's not, it's not dramatic changes. But the, the center touchscreen, previously just had a seven inch screen it was available, and I think the base model actually had a non touch radio. So the standard, the S trim level, has a seven inch touchscreen, which is still you know, kind of a mediocre display, but it is what it is we've complained about Nissan's displays in the past the, the SV and the Asr, get an eight inch display, which is a little better. And, you know, it's definitely an improvement from some of the other Nissan screens then but the the most important change is actually in the center console. Previously the kicks you know, you had it came down you had the the shifter at the front and then the console just kind of dropped down and and you ended up with kind of very, very shallow tray with a couple of cupholders built into it along the kind of along the floor. And it was a fold down armrest on the driver's seat, which was kind of flimsy. We now the kicks now has a you know a full console that goes all the way back extends back and you have nice deep cupholders in there now. So now you can stick that Yeti right down in there and it's not going to be wobbling around. It's It's It's going to be held in place and then there's a storage compartment on the back portion of it and an armrest a full armrest that's part of that console. So you lift up the armrest you have access to a storage cubby there. So it's it's it's definitely much more functional in that area. They've also made some other assorted things standard equipment now for for the 2021 models including the the expanded the Nissan safety shield 360 package, the A das package So you've got automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection, lane departure warning, radar, blind spot monitors and cross traffic alert, high beam assist, and rear automatic braking, which can be handy sometimes when I was because I had several other cars in the driveway while I had for the weekend I had the kicks, I was parking it off to the side. And there was, you know, as I was backing it up, I was backing up towards some some tall grass that was there along the edge of the driveway. And the first time I backed up towards that, all of a sudden, I felt the thing just lurched to a stop. And that was the the rear the rear automatic braking, you know, it had the set the sonar sensors that detected what was behind me. And I could have easily run it over without any problem. But, you know, it detected that grass there and slammed on the brakes, which, you know, if you have, you know, young kids or young kids that are either wandering around behind the car, or leaving bikes and other stuff behind the car, it'll detect that stuff. And, you know, put on the brakes, you know, before something tragic happens, which

Dan Roth  56:12  
I just wish there is a way it could sense the density of stuff. So like grass is not going to be terribly dense and seemed like yeah, it's just

Sam Abuelsamid  56:18  
Yeah, well, it's just using the, the sonar sensors, which are not very cheap, but they're not very sophisticated. So, you know, eventually, you know, when you get more radar sensors on vehicles, and that is something you could definitely do, but, you know, still it's better than the nothing at all. $20,000 vehicle Yeah, and that's, that's, that's standard feature on this $20,000 That's impressive. So, you know, and then the one I had was the mid level SV, the SV and the ASR also have a adaptive cruise control, which is nice to have at that price point. We don't have final pricing yet on the the 2021 kicks. But the the 2020s were, you know, they started just over 19,000 to 20,000 with delivery charge, and then 22 for the SV with the with the delivery is 21 plus plus 1000 bucks delivery charge you know, one it's it's a it's a it's a nice package, nice sized package, you know, that's very affordable and gives you lots of features, you know, the powertrain is adequate, it gets, you know, good fuel economy, you know, averages 33 combined on EPA, and, but, you know, if you need all wheel drive, this is not the the vehicle for you, like the venue, that's front wheel drive only. But how

Rebecca Lindland  57:48  
was the CVT? How windy was that?

Sam Abuelsamid  57:51  
Nissan actually does a better job than most manufacturers with the CVT. So it's it's actually it doesn't feel too bad, you know, they program it, you know, to behave more like a step ratio transmission. So it doesn't really feel much like a CVT.

Dan Roth  58:06  
I found that in the Versa to this. Yeah, it was totally fine. Totally mature, unobtrusive. The only time you really ever noticed the CVT nature was when you just needed all the power.

Sam Abuelsamid  58:19  
Right? And then since there isn't a whole lot of power to work with 122 Yeah, it does, you know, you will, you will hear it and feel it working. But it's, it's not bad. I mean, for for normal driving, it's perfectly adequate.

Rebecca Lindland  58:32  
Sorry, Lucy is very upset with me. Okay, she has some stuff to talk about. I get that she's being very aggressive.

Dan Roth  58:42  
Yeah, I just, I was very impressed with the Versa, I haven't had the kicks, but the Versa is much at the same hardware. And it's not like a sophisticated stuff. And I don't mean that as an insult to it. I like that it's made from pretty standard kind of durable parts with, you know, proven designs that, you know, there's nothing real fancy to blow up on you, after you buy your $20,000 entry level car and cost you you know, $5,000 in a few years, you know, I like that. It's just, it's it's a simple design and it delivers, you know, it really, it's good to drive, it's clearly affordable to make and buy. And there. You know, Nissan does some fun stuff. So you can get different roof colors and door handles.

Sam Abuelsamid  59:34  
Yeah, you do have some nice visual options. And I think you know, the changes the visual changes they made to it, you know that with the grille and everything, I think they works well. So I think that this is, this is a good upgrade. So

Rebecca Lindland  59:48  
I like those safety features because this is going to tend to be a younger buyer, potentially, you know, and frankly, those kinds of safety features help any age buyer Because we do see a lot of empty nesters getting into something like this. And so I think this is I really like the fact that they focus on it. You know that safety shield 360. And I was going to talk about this vehicle next week, but I had the Nissan Altima and that was my first experience with the blue button on the dash.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:00:20  
That's the steering wheel. Yeah, that's

Rebecca Lindland  1:00:24  
Yeah. Okay, so that was interesting. So we'll talk about that later. Okay.

Dan Roth  1:00:28  
So did yours have the stitching on the dash and stuff don't

Sam Abuelsamid  1:00:30  
have the stitching on the dash, you know, and so, you know, they did some, you know, they improved the trim a little bit on the SP and the Asr, you know, is still, you know, does not a luxury vehicle, but it looks it looks nice enough. Yeah, that's it.

Dan Roth  1:00:43  
Yeah, that's, that was my take away with the first as well, like, yeah, clearly, it's not a luxury car, but it, it feels nice in there, you know, it, there's been attention paid to it, instead of it just being a just doesn't

Sam Abuelsamid  1:00:54  
feel cheap plastic, it's inexpensive, but it doesn't feel cheap. And so you can, you know, you can, you know, you look at it, and you compare it to more premium cars. And, you know, it's certainly, you can tell that, you know, this is a car built to a lower price point. But it doesn't feel like you're sacrificing much, you know, so it's, it's not, it's not punishing you, which is good. I mean, that's, that's what you want, you know, you don't just because you can't necessarily afford something more expensive doesn't mean that you should, you know, be you know, have have something that doesn't, at least at least look and feel decent? Well, I

Dan Roth  1:01:32  
mean, I think too, even if you can't afford it, you know, one of the things that pushes you out of a less expensive car, even if you don't want to spend much more is that it feels like a penalty, you know, so if they're making it nice, there, you know, for for that 20 grand, you don't have to spend more, even if you could, you know, it's just like for me, I, I really don't feel like I should spend more than $20,000 on a car ever. I have, because, you know, you get to a point where you want the stuff that you want. And depending on how much inventory there is out there for used cars and stuff. But if you want a new car around 20, grand, you don't necessarily have to suffer. And that's I think that's a newer development as well. And it's nice to see that the affordable stuff is becoming a little bit more attuned to the fact that like, it's not just people who don't have any more means that by here,

Rebecca Lindland  1:02:32  
what does it punish the buyer? Yeah, right, it still recognizes that you've spent $20,000 of your money on this vehicle. And rather than punish them, they give them a good experience. And then when budget or lifestyle or both, can you can spend more money ideally, you stay in the brand and move up or you even go to infinity. You know, like if you have a good experience with this vehicle, and you're going to tell other people, and so you know, rather than punishing somebody who's buying your entry level vehicle, give them those emotional solutions and those goodies that don't really cost you much more money, but really foster good? Well, yeah,

Dan Roth  1:03:09  
yeah. Yeah. So here's my question to is, how does the kick stack up against like the sole Eco Sport Eco Sport? I'm sorry, the cross track? car, Kona C. Cx three, like, it's a very competitive market. It

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:22  
is. Yeah, I think that the well, the Eco Sport in particular, I think, is not really very competitive anymore.

Dan Roth  1:03:31  
I love ringing that thing's neck though. It's

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:33  
something Yeah, you know, it's,

Dan Roth  1:03:35  
it's charming. And,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:36  
yeah, you know, it's, it's a, it's an old design, I think, you know, it's gonna get replaced in the next year. So, most likely, you know, it's not as efficient. It's not as roomy inside. Yeah, but, you know, the, compared to the soul, you know, the venue, you know, see HR, you know, I think I think that the kicks is very competitive against all those, you know, and so, I think you've got a lot of good choices in that segment, you know, the soul I think, is probably more you know, kind of one step up from there. In terms of its size and everything and, you know, you can you can trim you know, you can trim out a soul You know, with the turbo and you know, the x line and things like that, and you can get it to a considerably higher price point than the maximum price of a kicks. But, you know, certainly compared to something like the venue or the or the car, you know, I think that this is a really, really good option. And I think we're going to see more. We're going to see some more options like this in the market in the next couple of years.

Unknown Speaker  1:04:44  
I'm down.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:45  
I'm Rebecca, what about you? What did you have?

Rebecca Lindland  1:04:48  
So I had a couple of different fun ones. I my first one that I had, and I'm kind of overlapping in the driveway here. I had the Chevy Suburban diesel, which

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:59  
does So the kicks,

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:01  
yes, kind of the opposite, I think it could fit in the back of it. You know, as our loyal lovely listeners know, you know, when I'm driving around town, and on the streets of Greenwich and curvy roads and stuff, sometimes these full on seven seat, and this thing is seven seat and then some, they can feel just enormous. But this was actually really, really good. Like, I was pleasantly surprised by how quiet it drove and how small it drove us. And not just given its size, but just, I never felt like ridiculous and I have in other vehicles. This is

Dan Roth  1:05:42  
I don't see how you could feel ridiculous in a brand new suburban. And granted, I think that's

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:47  
it's a very onpoint I it's very quiet inside. And a diesel is not always quiet. What was impressive was it it was quiet outside as well. And it you know, when we think of some people think of diesels it's loud and noisy and smoky. And, you know, the kind of rumbling commercial truck kind of feel, this is none of that it's incredibly refined. So I've got this giant 2021 Chevy Suburban diesel, I'm cruising around Greenwich in it. And it's got this 3.0 liter inline six Duramax turbo diesel in it 277 horsepower, 460 pound feet of torque. And the thing is just amazingly good, I was really, really impressed with it. It's quiet, both inside and outside. It's not one of those diesels that you think of that, it's actually, you know, going to cough up and wake up your neighbors or something. It's just it has this really lovely level of refinement, the 10 speed automatic, this has this auto track where it's two wheel drive, and then it automatically switches to four wheel drive on demand, you can do it on the fly, as well. But you know if it senses that the wheels are slipping, and it's actually actively snowing right now, so I can imagine it doing this, I you know, it'll automatically engage your four wheel drive. And I like that a lot. I know, I like the idea that it's got me covered whether if I actively engage it myself, or if it comes into play when I need it, because it's just that sense of reassurance. So, you know, this is the first diesel in the suburban. And I think they did a really, really good job with it. And 7700 pounds of towing capacity. And you know, a lot of people will use that kind of capability in this. So the estimate is 22 miles per gallon combined. I got 18 and a half, which isn't terrible, especially when you think of, you know, I did a lot of stopping and going in town driving, and of course on the highway as well. So just overall I thought it was really, really nice. It was not you driving

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:01  
around. Was it snowy when you were driving it around?

Rebecca Lindland  1:08:04  
Unfortunately, it was not

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:05  
okay. I'm just wondering, because that would certainly affect your fuel economy. It's gonna cut your fuel economy if you're driving around the snow, things like that.

Rebecca Lindland  1:08:14  
Yes, yeah. No, I was. I wasn't driving in snow. But you know, the roads are curvy around here. There's a lot of braking that goes on, you know, so

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:24  
your lead foot, so

Rebecca Lindland  1:08:25  
I have a left foot as well. And you know what, I mean, I will say, you know, merging onto the highway, especially a highway like 95, where there's only three lanes, even in the busiest parts, and the trucks are big, and they you know, this thing, this thing hauled from that standpoint. I mean, it was nice to have even a refined diesel has some fantastic pickup to it. So from that standpoint, it was really great. So the one that I had is starts, the suburban overall starts at 68. Three, and the one that I tested was 77, just almost 78,000 and you know it, it comes with a standard 5.3 liter there's also a 6.2 liter, VA both of the engines. But this diesel I think if if you know if you want long range also, it's a fantastic option, I think for people.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:21  
Yeah, I'd had the I haven't driven the new suburban yet, but I drove the Silverado with that engine a couple of months back a few months back. And I was equally impressed with that. I mean, that is a really fantastic engine. I remember a couple years ago when they launched the new the current generation Silverado at the Auto Detroit Auto Show. I talked to Dan Nicholson who is head of GM powertrain at the time and that was the first time that they had announced this this new diesel engine that it was an inline six, which is different from what you find from the FCA and from the RAM and the Ford pickups. They have V six inches three liter V sixes. I asked Dan why they did an inline six. Yeah, because this is is clearly a brand new engine. It's not it's not a derivative any existing powertrain and said, we we took it, we took the inline six configuration because we wanted a smoother, quieter engine. And, you know, since they were doing an engine from scratch anyway, they weren't they weren't modifying an existing design. Yeah, they figured, okay, we're gonna do it, and let's, let's make it the best we possibly can. And I think they, they totally succeeded at that, you know, it's one of the most efficient, you know, light duty diesel truck truck engines. And certainly the by far and away, I think, the most refined

Rebecca Lindland  1:10:38  
well, and what's interesting, too, you know, and harkening back to when we were talking about the $10,000 diesel option in the fourth, this is a few $100 difference, I mean, right? Well, I'm looking at the specs to the 5.3 liter, starts, VA starts at 69. Five, and they're Duramax turbo and the same trim, the premier trim starts at 75 70,005. So it's like, it's not even $1,000 995 difference. And so, you know, you're gonna be able to get that back pretty quickly. In terms of fuel economy. Oh,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:18  
absolutely. And you got to keep in mind that, you know, the diesel that's in the heavy duty trucks like that, that tremor, you know, that's a, that's a very different engine, it's a much larger, much more powerful engine. And it's also, you know, the transmission that they have to use with that, because of the torque, you know, those those diesel engines and the heavy duty trucks produce, you know, more than double the torque that's from this thing, you know, they produce almost 1000 foot pounds of torque in some cases. And so they have to have a much heavier duty transmission. And that adds to the cost of the package. Whereas, you know, this diesel, you know, it's using the same 10 speed automatic that you get with the gas engines. You know, so it's, I think it's, it's a, it's a, it is a surprisingly affordable alternative, you know, compared to some of the other diesels, you know, like the RAM and the for diesels are considerably more expensive, relative to the gas engines and those trucks.

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:17  
Yeah, just the upgrade is, is it, you're not really paying much of a premium for that kind of upgrade in terms of fuel economy and torque and performance. And as I said, there's what I was really most impressed with was just how refined it was, I didn't you know, I wasn't constantly conscious of the fact that I was driving a diesel, it was just a good family vehicle, there's a ton of room in it, I couldn't believe how much room there was in the back, even with all three seats. Up, it was there was still a ton of room inside. I was not thrilled with the gear selector. So this is so if you're looking at the steering wheel to the right, upper right, and it's got levers and pushes. And so to put it in park, you push to put it in reverse, you pull the lever, neutral, you push drive you Paul, and it definitely took some getting used to it's kind of this weird setup. And so I it just takes a little bit of practice to get used to, it does keep it out of the way, they have this electronic center console that moves. So you can move it backwards and forwards, which is kind of fun. And so that, you know, you can put it all the way back for kids that they want to have the people in the second row can access it. Or you can move it all the way forward as a typical armrest. It did have Android Auto and Apple CarPlay wirelessly which worked out really really well. Very, very seamless behavior there. But it was a little bit tricky getting initially getting us to that gear selector and understanding what it was. The other weird thing is that it had this little to the right of the of the screen. And in the center, the center of the dash. It had this little door like a two and a two inch wide by three inch high door that I don't know what goes in there. I mean, it's actually quite handy for masks

Dan Roth  1:14:24  
these days. That's where the house

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:28  
that's actually meant to you know, put your I think you can actually put your phone in there.

Unknown Speaker  1:14:33  
It was too small. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:35  
I can't remember. I didn't remember. I remember the mentioning that at the reveal of the bourbon. I can't remember what the explanation. I mean,

Dan Roth  1:14:46  
maybe it would be some Massachusetts where it's legal. That's where you're one hitter and you're

Rebecca Lindland  1:14:54  
I don't know, me. I didn't feel like my phone would fit in there. But maybe it would be It was really hard to get open. So it's kind of like I, you know, I had to, I had to really kind of play with it. And frankly, I didn't want to break my nails. And so, so it was just it was just a weird sort of thing. But as I said, like it's great. That's where you can stash your masks or your stash, apparently. Yeah. But you know, the the interiors, lovely the leathers really nice on it. And that this one had the parent panoramic sunroof, which was really cool. And, and the center console is actually there, I took a picture of it, I sat on this, after I move the center console all the way towards the back there, there's still so much leg room there that you can actually sit on that center console. And like talk to people, it's almost like the, the, you know, those Captain chairs that that can be turned around. Like it was sort of that, like it's all another seat in there. Not obviously, when you're driving, but if you're sitting there, you know, tailgating or something, but there's a ton of room in it. And it's just a big American family car.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:10  
I can't remember this the premiere have the air spring suspension in it? I think it

Dan Roth  1:16:15  
Oh,

Rebecca Lindland  1:16:17  
yes.

Dan Roth  1:16:18  
I assume so.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:21  
I don't trust it definitely has definitely the the magnetic ride control. I'm looking at this box here, which is why

Dan Roth  1:16:27  
I was gonna say with the with the towing package, it probably has the air suspension, as well. So if it had, I think you'd mentioned to have the towing package. So I would assume those two go together. And that's one of the things that I like about it, as the, like you said,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:44  
does not have the air ride suspension. Okay, it does have the Max trailering package, right, and it's got, it's got the, the magneride dampers, so it's got steel coil springs, but the magneride dampers, and then adaptive air springs are something, it's mutually exclusive, you can either get the magneride, or the air

Dan Roth  1:17:03  
suspension, I guess that makes a lot of sense from how they they tear the options. But I would assume that if you're telling, you're going to want the the air suspension anyway to keep that that trailer tongue level because the thing about it is it has a 7700 pound towing capacity. That means you put everybody in the car, all the stuff, right. And that's that's one of the things that it's great for it's it's enclosed storage for the normal family plus all of their things, and then it can tell a pretty decent, you know, RV or something behind it. The thing you got to watch out for is when you get all those corn fed Americans into a vehicle. It might sag a little bit when you get a little trailer ton weight that's above, you know, 10% of the load or just poorly poorly loaded and stuff. And I see enough of these on the highway, towing heavy things sagging like crazy. I'm just like, you've got no steering control, man. Like that's, that's bad. You should figure that out. So yeah, but that's, that's a healthy towing capacity for something that's going to get decent economy to with the diesel engines. So it'll it may not get more than 18. But it'll get 18 while you're telling.

Rebecca Lindland  1:18:19  
Oh, yeah, I mean, but so no, I thought they did a really, really nice job on it. Cool. So that was I only had it for three days. So I didn't get a chance to like you know, really do too much with it. But driving around with it, it was it was very, very well behaved and and it's really handsome. Just a really nice looking vehicle. So and again, the quality of the interior, which GM had historically had issues with, you know, years ago. I think if you haven't been in a GM product in some cases, or months ago, you know, just try and give the benefit of the doubt. You know, if you haven't been in a GM vehicle lately, I think that this would be a good one to kind of check out and see, see what they've done in terms of you know, attention to detail and such. Cool. All right. So the other one that I had, oh, sorry, just briefly was the 2021 for runner, the TRD PRO

Dan Roth  1:19:12  
were the phone is a timer. Oh my gosh, it's like 2017

Rebecca Lindland  1:19:18  
but you know, there's still just an authenticity to it. And I will say that I was very partial to it had this great blacked out grille on it this lunar rock color which is that like really rich de Grey that is almost green at times and it's just it's just such I kept taking pictures of it because it's just such a cool looking vehicle. And yeah, it's it is almost crude at times. And but you feel like you can do anything with it. You know, it's got a 4.0 liter V six engine in it five speed automatic transmission, which is kind of hilarious these days. But it's authentic and I liked it.

Dan Roth  1:20:02  
None of it's bad. You know, I really like the way that engine transmission are so well matched and it actually has a little bit of Lexus refinement even though it's only five speeds, there's nothing wrong with that it uses those. Well, it

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:17  
does. No, I just, you know, it's a, it's interesting because it's To me, it's a really fun kind of vehicle, again, very sort of old school, but it's 50 grand. So it's certainly not cheap. A stretch.

Dan Roth  1:20:34  
You know, none of those things are you know, your alternative is you get the four runner or a Wrangler Unlimited, you can certainly get a Wrangler Unlimited into

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:42  
Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So this thing does have your Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. It does have Amazon Alexa, they have this and I did as I mentioned, the TRD Pro. So each trims a little bit different. But so you know, it does have some of those technological features that it didn't even have a very short

Dan Roth  1:21:06  
that's new in the last couple of years. infotainment, they could do, right? More More than like, you know, ham cranium.

Rebecca Lindland  1:21:17  
So yeah, so you know, this thing is, it's like, if you need a good off road, beat around kind of vehicle, I, I, you know, part time four wheel drive, it's got the lock locking rear differential on this one, I know almost 10 inch ground clearance. But I actually was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't that hard to get in and out of it did have the running boards on it. This is not a car that my mother could ever get in and out of god bless her, but it was just, you know, it's kind of fun, you feel sort of badass in it. And if you're feeling

Dan Roth  1:21:51  
insiders, and everything come on I'm a legend in my own mind. No, no, I agree. I'm sorry. Carry on.

Rebecca Lindland  1:22:03  
It had I got 5000 towing rating on it. And I don't know, it's just, you know, it's one of those vehicles that if you got an extra 50 grand thrown in your fleet

Dan Roth  1:22:17  
that's running indoors I got nothing else to do with the money. I think the thing that the foreigner continues to stay sort of authentic about like you said it's authentic is its capability off road it's really well behaved on roads as well. It has a little bit of of unrefined mint on on road to to degree like you know, this is a car that you can take it's you hear the tires a little bit it's, it's a little you're closer to the mechanical nature of the machine well when you when you are in some newars and

Rebecca Lindland  1:22:54  
when you think about you know, the Landrover defender that we talked about earlier, you know, that thing was very, very find on and off road that actually starts at 49 nine so you know, you're not going to get all the bells and whistles but you're not going to you don't have all the bells and whistles on this thing either. So you know, but it's, I guess for me it was just I love the authenticity of it, it doesn't try to pretend something be something that it's not it is it's an off road, very highly capable vehicle. I really liked the size of it, you know, definitely five passenger only on but there's a good amount of room in the back and I don't know it's just it's something that you know, it's got the the TRD Pro has the roof racks on it, as I mentioned has the blacked out grille and stuff and it's just it's just fun it was just a fun vehicle to have for a week I definitely could have kept it for longer and but it did they have added some nice things the auto on and off headlamps you know, it's got a skid plate on it 17 inch wheels. So if there was some refinements there that it hadn't had in the past

Dan Roth  1:24:05  
I've before runner has really grown into its its age, that way. Yeah, we joke about it being old, but I think that it doesn't need to be anything more than it is there's no reason to redo it if it's still exactly be absolutely popular and you know, meet whatever safety regs it has to like that's that's a truck with a purpose. You can go buy a rav4 if you need something that's that's a little different. You buy it you buy it for runner, because of what it can do and it it does what it can do really, really well and it's it's just it's it's staying power makes it really charming, but not quaint. In a way. You know what I mean? Like it's you know, I

Rebecca Lindland  1:24:51  
never felt like I was in a vintage vehicle per se you know, but the exterior has that same Same kind of vintage feel to it.

Dan Roth  1:25:03  
Yeah it's a character

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:04  
it does it has it it has character to it.

Dan Roth  1:25:08  
Oh you know I'm so much on the road has no care I

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:10  
think the one that I had actually may have been a seven See?

Dan Roth  1:25:17  
Yeah, they do have a have a tiny little third row.

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:19  
Yeah, like you know not. Oh, no, I'm sorry the one that I didn't have. I'm sorry. And they do have they do offer a seven seat. The one that I had, I don't think had it. But, but there was a

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:35  
vehicle you'd want to have a third row in just it doesn't seem like there's gonna be enough room there to make it useful to anybody.

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:43  
I think if you are hauling around a friend's boyfriend you don't really like stick them in there.

Dan Roth  1:25:53  
If you're doing your your NATO peacekeeping duties

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:59  
your parental thing you know, your daughter's boyfriends back there. I know. But it's a fun vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:26:08  
In the dog crate strapped to the roof.

Dan Roth  1:26:10  
Yeah. Just hang on you make it all the way home. Oh my gosh, okay.

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Dan Roth  1:27:20  
We had a good crop of cars this week. It's taken us a while to get through. But there was other stuff happening as well. You know, topically? Why don't we start with the there were a couple of announcements from zooks. But why don't we start with the one that we have on our list about their Robo taxi? Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:38  
so zooks is a company based in Foster City, California, they started in 2014. And they've been developing not only an automated driving system, but also their own purpose built Robo taxi vehicle, which is an electric vehicle that's designed to be automated driving, you know, much like the cruise origin. But it's actually smaller than the origin. You know, we've known for for some time, you know, for several years that they were developing this vehicle, but they finally showed it off last week. And it's it's, it's an interesting vehicle because unlike the cruise origin, and many of the others, this thing is completely symmetrical. So it's it's bi directional, it's designed to go up to 75 miles an hour, in either direction, you know, it's got the same lights front and rear. You know, the, the wheels are actually outside of the body work, you know, bicycle fenders on them. It's got four wheel steering, four wheel drive. And, you know, the lights on the outside are designed to signal to pedestrians and other road users, you know, kind of what what the vehicles intending to do. The you know, with the four wheel steering, it can almost it can pull into they show a graphic on their website, you know, showing it pulling into a spot where you can parallel park that, you know, basically drive right into it straight in and drive straight out without the the usual rigmarole you go through with parallel parking for cedar with what they call carrier seating where everybody's facing the center of the vehicle. They have not indicated when this thing's going to be deployed, when it's going to go into service. And my guess is probably not going to be before 2022. But they, you know, with, you know, zooks was acquired by Amazon. Last June, after they they were trying to raise a series D funding round they already raised over a billion dollars or almost a billion dollars. But we're having trouble raising more money. And so Amazon acquired them. And like June 2020. Yeah, June of this year. Yeah. So I wouldn't you know, they at the time, you know, they said that they remain committed to zooks his vision of Robo taxis but this is Not an area that Amazon's ever gotten into or really expressed any interest in previously. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a version of this vehicle that dispenses with the passenger module and replaces that with with portable Amazon lockers to do contactless delivery. And I think it'd be perfect for that.

Dan Roth  1:30:21  
I mean, what else is Amazon trying to stop paying? For? Gosh, I mean, I think if they, if they use that zooks Electric delivery van to they could, they could almost put the two things together, right and get get their Amazon fleet without drying out?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:36  
Well, you know, the, the, you know, the rivian vans are much larger, you know, they're, you know, on the order the size of the the transits, you know, those are for doing larger package deliveries and, you know, moving stuff between warehouses and so on. This would be more for urban deliveries, you know, for the kind of this kind of stuff that they've talked about, you know, doing one or two hour deliveries, you know, from local warehouses, it can send it out, you know, can pull right up curbside, you can scan the barcode from your, from your phone, it'll pop, pop the locker door open, you take your package, close the door, and it goes on to do the next delivery.

Rebecca Lindland  1:31:13  
Well think of like Whole Foods. Now, this could be amazing for Whole Foods delivery, which Amazon already owns. Exactly,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:31:21  
yeah. So that, you know, that sort of thing, small packages, Whole Foods, grocery deliveries, all kinds of local last mile deliveries, you know, and it's it's fully electric. It's, it's, it's an interesting vehicle.

Rebecca Lindland  1:31:38  
Yeah, I think it's really, it's really, really cool. I mean, I if you take the driver out and let them do things that they let them focus on the deliveries that require a human, whether it's moving the packages, or whatever, and let this, especially as we continue to see growth in delivery services, and demand, let these things do that, like, if you think we like all all the whole foods can be delivered this way, or a Oh, and they can contract with other companies like shoprite, and Wegmans. And all those. Yeah, this could be really, really revolutionary.

Dan Roth  1:32:18  
It makes me a little sad about what it might mean for labor. Yeah. But no, I mean, on the other hand, too well, but

Rebecca Lindland  1:32:24  
you still you would still have drivers that would focus on potentially more profitable deliveries, they're making a lot of money on grocery deliveries,

Dan Roth  1:32:32  
I suppose they're also not paying. Yeah, that's another issue.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:32:38  
A lot of their drivers are contract workers, too. They're not Amazon employees. So you know, a lot of, you know, we occasionally get Amazon deliveries that show up, you know, in just a plain white van, it's not, it doesn't have the Amazon Prime logo on the side, or sometimes even in a car. And I think it's I think Amazon calls this service, flex, amazon flex, you know, which is a gig, a gig delivery, you know, it's like Uber Eats or, you know, some of these other well ups

Dan Roth  1:33:04  
does it to where they give you a stipend for using your well ups actually gives you is, I think a stipend for using your own vehicle and stuff. But, I mean, we're not going to solve that labor discussion on our podcast. But like I do, I, I kind of feel like it's something that we should consider as we look at this tech that it's gonna keep continuing to get developed. But what is the what's the upside? what's the downside? I just I look at this, and I go zooks basically made a train. User on the outside, it's got coach seating, sliding doors on either side, this

Sam Abuelsamid  1:33:45  
train where each of the train cars is independently can operate independently without rails.

Dan Roth  1:33:52  
Yes, and they don't need to be cold. So but you could you could, you know, swarm them. You can you can share them. Yeah, for sure. No, deployed in a certain way. So I'm actually really excited to to see it deployed in a transit application. Like that, to me seems like you could run on surface streets as in transit route and, you know, put them in a protected lane. And you don't need to lay rails to do what light rail would do. So that's really fascinating to me, and I know that there's, it's probably not going to happen, you know,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:34:29  
and that seems Yeah, and the thing is, you know, because this kind of vehicle can go, you know, anywhere. it you know, it in when you integrate it with mass transit, because mass transit is great for certain routes, where you have a lot of people traveling, you know, you can have much higher density of people in a bus or a subway, then you can have in one of these vehicles, granted, you know, this zooks vehicle is less than 12 feet long so it's over a foot shorter than a Honda Fit. So it actually has a very small physical footprint and very maneuverable, which is good for reducing congestion. You don't, you don't need individuals driving around in Chevy Suburbans, you know, in around the city as a, for instance, a hypothetical example. Yeah, so, you know, having this, you know, having a small footprint vehicle makes a lot of sense in urban environments. And then, you know, to use that in combination with, you know, longer trips along high density routes, you know, feeding in and feeding out, you know, for the first mile last mile into those high density routes, you know, makes a lot of sense, you know, and having a coordinated mobility ecosystem, you know, that utilizes this as part of that ecosystem, I think it can work has the potential to work really well. Speaking of interesting technology, and you got a story you wanted to talk about, that involves Hyundai.

Dan Roth  1:35:58  
Oh, yeah. So this week, Hyundai bought Boston Dynamics, the, the company that makes those robotic murder dogs. And this is the, I don't know how many, this is the most recent ownership change for this company that's gone through a lot of ownership changes in the not too far past. And so its most recent owner, I think, was SoftBank. And they valued the company at 1.1 billion. Google had been involved before that, and it spun out of MIT in the late 90s. And I'm sure if you look for Boston Dynamics dogs and big dog and stuff, you'll find the videos of the the robotics that they produce, they actually just started selling I think this year, one of their products, that is it's it's a dog, it's shaped like a dog

Unknown Speaker  1:36:55  
robot.

Dan Roth  1:36:56  
Well, they call it spot, that's a dog. But what it you know, basically, instead of having like, you know, a bunch of hungry Dobermans, that wander around your, your warehouse, you can just have this, this electric robotic dog do the same thing. To

Rebecca Lindland  1:37:14  
robot,

Dan Roth  1:37:15  
right. Like, they're fascinating. They're, they're amazing. You know, they they have a, from what you can see from the videos, you know, they have really well developed software. So, you know, they can handle like being on slippery terrain or, you know, getting bumped or shoved, you know, they don't just tip over, they can sort of scramble they do move very much like an animal would and

Sam Abuelsamid  1:37:41  
or, and that's what it was designed for in the originally the original spot, or big dog or whatever the original variant was, it was designed for the military as essentially as a pack animal.

Dan Roth  1:37:54  
And that's why I call it a murder dog. Yes. Like, all of this a consumer and industry sort of gloss that they're putting on it. And you look at the see go, the first application for that is gonna be military. Like,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:09  
yeah, well, you know, you know, one of the interesting applications or, you know, terrifying applications earlier this year, during the pandemic in Singapore, they deployed a couple of these things, wandering around the streets of Singapore, looking for people that weren't wearing masks, and I

Rebecca Lindland  1:38:28  
wasn't sure they were looking for gum.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:38:32  
Look looking for people that were not wearing masks, as well. Yeah, it would stop and you know, tell the person to put their mascot and then vaporize them, you know. But so, you know, there's a lot of interesting possibilities exactly why Hyundai wants these thing wants this company is not entirely clear at this point. So

Dan Roth  1:38:57  
right. That's my, my main question is why does,

Rebecca Lindland  1:39:00  
yeah, but think about Hyundai as a broader company. I mean, this thing is way beyond just automotive. So you know, they do a lot of shipping and cargo and containers and such. And so, you know, if this kind of technology can facilitate loading and unloading, I, you know, whatever, whatever it might be from you. It's not that the acquisition was confined to 100 Hyundai Motor Company, it's Hyundai the conglomerate.

Dan Roth  1:39:30  
Okay, that makes a lot more sense now, actually. Because, like you say, you know, Hyundai, I mean, Hyundai builds cargo ships.

Rebecca Lindland  1:39:37  
Exactly.

Dan Roth  1:39:38  
And all kinds of skyscrapers and right, you know, that they can use some sort of integrated solution to say, like the Hyundai cargo solution for you know, so we've got the robots for loading unloading, like you say, and then all of the or even just in their factories and their automotive factories, using the robotics to automate production. So, I see that that's that makes a lot more sense. Now then, you know, the real extreme version of like a car with legs, which has been, it's been floated, you know, they've got a humanoid too, they've got one called Atlas, that could do backflips. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's stuff we need, if you if you want,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:40:21  
if you want to see the potential of what these kinds of machines can do, check out the episode of Black Mirror titled, heavy metal. Just see where this where this can possibly go. And, and you will. It's terrifying.

Dan Roth  1:40:38  
Well, so there's that. And that's one of the things that I have been talking about kind of recently is, you know, you have to imagine the the applications of whatever you're developing for good or for bad. And I think that a lot of the things we've seen, in the last 20 years, the upside has been promoted. While the downsides have been blindspots by the people who developed it. Yeah, I mean, Uber, for instance. Okay, the upside is, is pretty clear. But the downsides are really dark of that a lot of the things they did are just the way the platform is open for abuse, different kinds of abuse, and then the way they actually abused the platform themselves, with gray ball and stuff like that. So it's a little scary to look at the tech, the tech is not going to stop being developed. And in the tech is really interesting. And I think there's a lot of a lot of applications that we're going to be able to benefit from, and it just came out of nowhere for me to hear that. Hyundai bought it. And and now with a little bit more sort of context around all of it. From from your you're pointing out Rebecca that on days, it's giant conglomerate. That makes more sense.

Rebecca Lindland  1:42:00  
Yeah. I mean, this is there's 250,000 people that work for a Hyundai conglomerate. And there's 300 people at Boston Dynamics. Yeah. You know, and so, this is, I mean, I think that they, they bought it for a very strategic reason, but it could be much broader, and not even focused on automotive. Yeah, I

Dan Roth  1:42:18  
honestly think that it's probably not focused on automotive, at least for the near to mid term. I think that there's other other applications for this that may trickle down to Automotive in some way. But

Rebecca Lindland  1:42:32  
let's just say if they if they start with the commercials of you know, must love robotic dogs, then I would start worrying.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:42:42  
It's gonna it's gonna be Hyundai's take on Subaru. You know, Subaru is all about loving the dogs, you know, they have the puppy corrals at the Chicago Auto Show. Yeah. And you'll you'll see we'll see a commercial for the new Hyundai ionic five Evie, next year, the hatch opens up and you see spot jumping out of the bag.

Dan Roth  1:43:00  
with helium laser eyeballs. Um, the, the thing that I think any of that kind of tech is is going to actually help push is battery technology, because that's really the biggest issue with all of this stuff, is, you know, their first thing, they're their big dog robot, it's actually powered by a two stroke motor. Because there's just, there's not enough energy in batteries in this form factor to power them for as long as you know, they, you might imagine, you know, this this stuff sucks up a lot of energy we got they got a clearly they've got some sort of stability system in there that uses gyroscopes and, and, and some pretty

Sam Abuelsamid  1:43:44  
heavy duty computing and sensing and the actuators to move those four legs. And

Dan Roth  1:43:50  
so it's it's going to, it's going to push battery tech more than anything, I think in the short term if they want to make whatever kind of terrifying stuff via fiber dark, which is driving.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:44:06  
The nice thing about about you know, the Boston Dynamics dogs right now is, you know, chances are you can probably outrun it. You probably have more endurance than the robot does.

Dan Roth  1:44:19  
Right. So you've got to make sure that you can sprint faster for a little bit. Because if it catches you die,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:44:25  
it's like being chased by a bear. Yeah. You don't have to be you don't have to outrun the bear. You just have to outrun your friend.

Rebecca Lindland  1:44:38  
Bears

Sam Abuelsamid  1:44:41  
nice segue. Lordstown motors hooking up with camping world.

Rebecca Lindland  1:44:48  
So let's clarify what what Laura motors is so they're so Lordstown motors is, and you guys probably know even more about this than I do. But they're Ohio based. up, and they're making theirs. They do they already produce or they're in the process of producing the endurance electric pickup truck for fleet. Yeah, also working on an RV and electric RV.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:45:11  
Right. So they that's Lordstown motors, kind of a sort of semi spin off of workhorse. The for the CEO Lordstown is the former CEO workhorse. They have investment from workhorse. They recently went public through a spec transaction. And there they've been developing an electric pickup truck. They bought the former GM Lordstown assembly plant where the Chevy Cruze used to be built. Where the Vega

Dan Roth  1:45:39  
was made.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:45:40  
Yes, the Vega was made there. Lots and lots of historic vehicles have been made. And so they picked up the Lordstown plant the Lordstown assembly plant for pretty much nothing from GM after GM and did production of the crews. And but you know, that gave them a huge assembly plant with a lot of equipment that was not really very useful for building the pickup electric pickup truck they wanted, and they didn't really have any cash. So they did this spec merger transaction, which got them another, it basically went public through that and got $600 million. So now they've finally started actually retooling the plant to build these trucks. And it's it's an interesting truck is that the truck design was originally developed by workhorse and licensed to Lordstown motors, it's it's all very complex, you know, shadowy, opaque stuff. But anyway, it's it's an electric pickup that's designed for commercial applications. Not really for consumers. One of the unique things about it is instead of, you know, the motors being inboard, like they are in most other TVs, it's got four hub motors in the wheels, which is an interesting idea. And a lot of ways, you know, because you get infinite, you know, torque vectoring, you know, for all four corners. But it also has challenges because putting the motors in the wheels makes them heavy, means you have a lot more unsprung mass, your ride quality is going to degrade. And you also have to have big, high voltage cables going to the motors, which are moving up and down as you're driving down the road instead of just going from a battery to a static motor that's, you know, mattered in the chassis. And so, durability could be challenging for this thing. But that's a whole other issue. Lordstown motors is done a deal with camping world, which is, I think maybe the biggest purveyor of RVs and travel trailers in the US. And a couple of elements to this Camping World locations are going to provide service and maintenance for Lordstown customers for most out motors, trucks, because Lordstown doesn't have a dealer network to do service. And Lordstown is going to develop a battery pack to put into trailers that Camping World sells, instead of using a generator on those they'll use they'll install battery packs in there. And ultimately, I think they also want to develop a full blown standalone electric RV based on the the Lordstown endurance chassis, which could be interesting.

Dan Roth  1:48:31  
Yeah, I think that this is a good sort of lashup for from Lordstown, because Camping World already has those. Those locations, you know, so for for service and almost like a dealer network, right. Like, that's one of the challenges that a lot of these upstart brands are trying to figure out is how do we, how do we get those locations into different places? And then, you know, as part of building the brand, how do we support our product. And so by attaching themselves to the camping world brand, using the camping world network, that seems like a really clever way to benefit both companies and also the consumer because you've already got a place you know where to go. Yeah. You know, like, I remember the Saturn launch way back, and it was like, they made a lot of noise about this new car, but then the deal was a really thin, you know, there was one per state and so,

Rebecca Lindland  1:49:35  
no, I like this a lot because also just reading through some of the releases that came out. I they are also investing in electrification. Because the Marcus lemonis, who is the CEO Camping World also is the CEO of something called good Sam. Not to be confused with our own bad Sam. But it's very, very clever. Because they'll put in Eevee charging stations. And camping world says I'm going to invest about $4 million and to upgrade their infrastructure for electrification. But that also means those locations will be places where the RV is can be plugged in and recharged or I don't know how long that will take, depending upon what they expect the RV to do, but or the end the trailer to do but I think it's a it's a very clever tapestry of tapping into people that, you know, want maybe potentially, are we really interested in doing some kind of electrification? Especially if we can replace that noisy generator with a battery power that that would be lovely.

Dan Roth  1:50:47  
Yeah. It Lawrence time is one of those companies that I wasn't real optimistic about their prospects, they just seem to go through a lot of challenges. And it seems like they've sort of worked it out the work some of them out the spec thing is, is, I guess we should explain to write the spec is like as something special purpose acquisition company, as I say 100%. So that's, that's another kind of venture capitalist sort of

Sam Abuelsamid  1:51:18  
thing. Sort of means facts. Facts are these companies that are set up by a group of investors, they put a bunch of money in, and they're publicly listed on the stock exchange. And their goal. Yeah, and they're usually time limited. Usually, like 18 to 24 months, they you set up this company, and the goal is to go out and buy something, buy another company, and emerge with

Dan Roth  1:51:44  
the idea is to buy it so that you can make money. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:51:46  
Exactly, yeah. And so, you know, the investors in the SPAC become, you know, initial owners of this company. So in the case of Lordstown, you know, they merged with a spec, same thing. Nikola motors did one of these Fisker just did a SPAC there's a whole bunch of others. luminar LIDAR company did one recently, very popular this year, because it lets you know, the startup companies go public without having to go through the whole usual process of an IPO, you know, of doing a road show and you know, trying to get investors you know, getting the investment banks to to underwrite the the the public offering. So they get a chance to go public raise some money, with less hassle than some of the other means of going public.

Dan Roth  1:52:35  
What do you think about that? Rebecca? Like, you're the one with the actual like, you're the IRS trained accountant, because

Unknown Speaker  1:52:42  
the IRS checking account feels shady to me, like,

Dan Roth  1:52:45  
I want to buy the thing to it to make money and I don't know, freaks me out. Oh, well,

Unknown Speaker  1:52:51  
I mean, most

Rebecca Lindland  1:52:54  
investors are interested in making money. I would hope so it

Dan Roth  1:52:57  
just seems like they're more interested in just cashing out than they are. and building a business, I suppose is sort of my my initial concern.

Rebecca Lindland  1:53:07  
I think that, you know, as, as you mentioned earlier, there is often a dark side, I think it depends on how I think it depends on the parties involved. Right? Because every spec is going to be a little bit different than others. And, you know, it is a way to raise capital rather than I then going through I mean, it is different than an IPO. But it is it is a very good way to raise capital, you do go public with it. And I think that in some ways, you know, it kind of reminds me of what was it? It wasn't derivative, was it derivatives that were that, you know, so many people don't always understand, but they can both be good used for good and evil.

Dan Roth  1:53:57  
Right? I guess that's so and the reason why I'm a little bit

Unknown Speaker  1:54:03  
cautious, cynical?

Dan Roth  1:54:04  
Well, it's not it's not so much cynical. It's it's, it's just that once you are trading publicly, your we've seen this like, instead of your responsibility, really going to the the company and the product and its longevity, your your goals seems to always be short term shareholder value in that

Sam Abuelsamid  1:54:30  
law. degree. That's always the challenge with a public company, a publicly traded company. There's always that inherent push, you know, towards shareholder value, which, you know, I mean, that's, that's a whole other issue, you know, larger problem of, you know, shareholder value versus stakeholder value. And this, we don't need to get into that today.

Dan Roth  1:54:54  
That's a big topic. Yeah. hours and

Unknown Speaker  1:54:59  
hours. Well,

Dan Roth  1:55:00  
I mean, I wish them well, it's really interesting development, it seems like a clever way of sort of tying up to companies that can benefit from each other.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:55:09  
Yeah, there's definitely some some real potential benefits to both sides, you know, for, for camping world, you know, an opportunity to bring electrification to the kinds of products that it sells with, you know, this is an area that hasn't really been addressed yet. And, you know, for Lordstown, you know, it gives them you know, that mechanism, you know, to get some service infrastructure or service network out there, or their vehicles, you know, by the time that they get into production, you know, hopefully in the next year or so. All right, well, I

Dan Roth  1:55:41  
think that's it for this very close to Christmas episode 174. Real variance. So we'll, we'll circle back with maybe one more, maybe two before the end of the year, but you know, at least one well, we get a little stir crazy. And, you know, thanks for listening, keep keep the emails and comments coming at wheel bearing feedback at wheel bearings, media,

Rebecca Lindland  1:56:05  
and thank you for to our patrons who have subscribed as well. We really appreciate it. big help. Thanks, everyone.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:56:11  
Bye Bye.

Dan Roth  1:56:15  
Thanks for listening to it. We love to listen to our listeners to drop us an email to feedback at wheel bearings dot media with your thoughts. Questions are conversation starters. That's feedback at wheel bearings dot media. You can also find us on Twitter at wheel bearings cast. Don't use any vowels except for the A in cast. So that's WHL bR NGS cast. Thanks again. We hope to hear from you soon. Hey, Wayne County, it's time to get blunt about medical marijuana. Because there's a time and place to use safely. The roads that's a no go. It's not okay with the baby on the way. Kids around, lock edibles up and store them high off the ground. Use medical marijuana as prescribed every time. Visit Wayne county.com slash blunt facts brought to you by the Wayne County Department of Health human and veteran services.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai