Dan Roth  0:01  
Coming up on episode 181 of wheel bearings. It's an all questions show. We answer listener feedback for the whole show. So thanks for sending in your thoughts and keep them coming.

We're driving the 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E, Kia Telluride sx, and finishing up our time with the Cadillac Escalade. That's all I had on episode 181 of wheel bearings.

Did you know you can support wheel bearings directly? Head to patreon.com slash wheel bearings, media, and you can become a patron today. Your contributions will help fund the platforms and tools we use to bring the podcast to you. And exclusives and improvements are already on the way thanks to your generosity. So if you want to be a part of an automotive podcast, like no other head to patreon.com, slash wheel bearings media.

I'm Dan Roth from Forbes.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01  
I'm Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights.

Rebecca Lindland  1:04  
And I'm Rebecca Lindland from Rebecca drives.

Dan Roth  1:07  
All right, so let's jump into what we're driving because we've got a lot of questions this week. To talk about one thing I need to do is make sure that all our Patreon friends have been thanked. Since the last time it looks like we've got one more new patron who signed up, Craig Daly has kicked in some some Forward Collision Alert dollars for us on Patreon and you can too and that means you'll get special interview content and other episodes either early or all on your own. You get to add free episodes as well. So patreon.com slash wheel bearings media. Anyway, we're done with the business development on to the podcast. Sam, you want to talk about the 2021 kiya telluride sx

Sam Abuelsamid  2:00  
Yeah, so I had the the telluride for a week. And you know we've talked about the telluride before you know both when it first launched and you know various times since it came out and this is still a great three row SUV. You know it's the the telluride and it's it's Hyundai sibling, the the palisade you know, are not quite as massive as you know, the classic body on frame three rows like the Chevy Tahoe GMC Yukon Ford Expedition. You know, it's, it's kind of like half a step down, you know, it's more along the lines of, you know, the Chevy Traverse in terms of size, still big, you know, the the third row is actually usable for adults, it's big enough for people to actually sit back there. You know, I was able to get in the back there and, and it's not you know, it's not it doesn't feel excessively cramped to me. You know, it's not gonna be luxurious for a full grown adult back there, but it's certainly very usable. Personally, you know, I I actually prefer the telluride to the palisade. Yeah, I like the way it looks. You know, it's a little bit more restrained in its design. You know, the palisade to me, you know, feels a little more you know, luxury more traditional luxury in terms of the design you know, a little more chrome outside you know, little feels a little fancier inside the A telluride feels a little bit more restrained, but still very premium, you know, in a way that I really like, which

Dan Roth  3:47  
one is the rolls one is a Bentley. That's all.

Sam Abuelsamid  3:50  
Yeah, except, I mean, you look at modern Bentley's, and, you know, they, you know, they feel just as ostentatious as a rolls and that sort of act. You know, I'd say it's, you know, not not that the palisade is ostentatious, but it's, it's a little more on this towards that ostentatious end of the spectrum than the telluride is.

Dan Roth  4:12  
So I get what you're saying, I feel the same way. telluride just seems to nail it for us enthusiasts. In both, like being nice, and also, just not being not feeling like grandpa's Buick.

Rebecca Lindland  4:28  
I think it's such a handsome vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:30  
It is, you know, it's really well executed both inside and out from a from a design perspective. You know, it's got, there's just, there's enough detailing, you know, in the sheet metal, the shaping of the sheet metal, the things that they've done inside to, to let you know that, you know, people actually put a very practiced eye on this, you know, and, and, and really thought about it and put things right where they need to be, you know, put just enough in there too. To let you know that, you know, this is something special, but you know, without going overboard, which, you know, is at least to my tastes, you know, I prefer that, you know, some people are going to prefer the the palisade look, which, you know, again, not to say that it's overboard or ostentatious, but it's a little bit further along the spectrum in that direction. And so, you know, and that and this is why, you know, you have, you know, Hyundai Motor Group has three brands, you know, you have Hyundai, you have Kia, you have Genesis, you know, Genesis goes, you know, again, further on down that stream in that direction. So, you know, I, I liked the balance of where he is at, in general, and that it works for me, you know, the power train in this thing, you know, there's just the one engine option, there's 3.8 liter, direct injected v six, naturally aspirated 291 horsepower, 262 pounds feet of torque. So you know, it's, it's typical of what you're gonna find as the baseline engine in this class of vehicle. It's the same engine that's in the palisade eight speed automatic transmission. It's available in front wheel drive, or all wheel drive, I had the all wheel drive, the trim level I had was the SX, which was the top trim level of the telluride. And it comes with all kinds of features. See, you know, it had the full suite of Driver Assist systems, you know, the usual blind spot monitors and cross traffic alert, the for collision assist, it's got the highway driving assist, which is, you know, kind of the more the more advanced version of Lane Keeping and adaptive cruise control. So it really, you know, tries to do, you know, lane centering, but it is still very much a hands on system. So, I think it's very comparable to what you would get with Nissan's propilot assist type of system or Ford's copilot, you know, their standard copilot 360, not the copilot 360 Plus, where you know, it's very much a hands on system. The the leather inside is really nice, got a nice big 1010 and a quarter inch touchscreen. In the center. The the telluride I guess if there's one, there's one thing I wish that the telluride had from the palisade. They the palisade has the full digital instrument cluster. Whereas the telluride keeps analog gauges for the speed and tachometer, and then there's a display and LCD display in between them. So both of them have the feature where when you turn on the turn signal, it shows you in the instrument cluster, it shows you the view from the camera in right in front of you. So you can see what's what's in the the blind spot on either side.

And on the pallet on the palisade, it will actually show it in, you know, on either on the left or right. So if you're put on your left turn signal, it'll show it on the left in place of the speedometer, or on the right side of the cluster. So it's a little more analogous to, you know, kind of glancing at your mirrors to see what's there. Whereas the, the telluride shows, you know, from either one, it shows it in that display in the middle between the two analog gauges. It's a very minor detail. It's, you know, it's certainly not a deal breaker, but it's just, you know, it is one detail that I kind of would prefer to see it done the way Hyundai did it. But you know, it's it's fairly trivial. You know, Android Auto and Apple CarPlay support, tri zone climate control. One of the the, one of the other details that I really like that Kia and Hyundai have implemented on these vehicles, is, you know, they've got lots of USB ports around the vehicle, you know, there's a bunch in the front of the bottom of the center staff. But also, we've talked about this before, on the the front seats on the inside border, the front on the seat frame, there's a USB port, right there so that passengers in the rear seat so if you get kids in the rear seats are with their iPad, or you know, their Nintendo Switch or whatever. They can plug it in the the USB port is right in front of them too, so they can charge their devices. So that's very handy to have there. It's easy to access above

Dan Roth  9:36  
that. And my kids actually commented on that. But they when they found the USB port on the back of the seats, they were all aflutter.

Rebecca Lindland  9:43  
Yeah. I mean, that's great, most thoughtful touch.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:46  
Yeah, most and the thing is most modern vehicles now have USB ports, you know, for the second row, but they're usually buried down at on the back surface of the center console. So down near your feet, and it can often be a little challenging, you know, to, you know, it's often you know, not well lit down there. And if you're trying to find the port plug in and figure out okay, which way is it supposed to go? You You can't really see it directly. So you're fumbling around trying to get up you know where he and Hyundai have done it. It's, you know, like right visible there you can see exactly where it is which orientation, the plug needs to go in. So that's get one of those really nice little touches. The the one I had the assets that I had had the second row captain's chairs, you can also get it with a bench seat, you know, and those that flip forward really easily so you get access to the third row, Harman Kardon surround sound. And I noticed I can't remember I can't remember if what the what I previously had the Telluride, which was a 2020 model, if it had the sounds of nature feature that we talked about previously. But it is there now on the 2020 ones

Dan Roth  10:59  
to get to like play a little like it could play like the sounds of nature and morning mood together. Like sunrise.

Sam Abuelsamid  11:11  
The crunching through the icy snow that not that I can't get enough of that right now by just walking through the snow. Or the sound of the cafe is I mean, you know, you know, you know, you want to hear the sound of a Parisian cafe as you're driving down the freeway right.

Dan Roth  11:31  
On the glove compartment. I don't want it like I need the bread, baked goods. Oh my gosh, honey.

Sam Abuelsamid  11:41  
You know, the one I had had the the black finish 20 inch alloy wheels, the black grille, you know, so it's got a little bit of what the the the everlasting silver exterior color. It's got a slightly sinister look to it, which I kind of like Yeah, I think that's a Iommi. Look.

Dan Roth  11:59  
Yeah, yeah. What's up with that? What's up with black wheels? Why is it so popular?

Rebecca Lindland  12:03  
Because it's like the coal blackout thing, and it's Gen X. We're all about black, I

Sam Abuelsamid  12:09  
suppose what would you What would you prefer the opposite extreme of the going back to the chrome?

Dan Roth  12:15  
wheels like cool white. White wheels can be cool. I mean, Subarus had white wagon wheels for years, and they would never hold up they'd always rust but black wheels like I don't know to me. They've removed some visual weight from a part of the car that seems to need the visual weight like you expect wheels to be shiny or painted or something and black wheels just make them blend right in with the shadows. I don't know and they look dirty to me because when your wheels are black that means that they have another

Sam Abuelsamid  12:42  
hand they never show brake dust.

Dan Roth  12:44  
Yeah, right that's true. So I don't know.

Sam Abuelsamid  12:50  
You don't have to get the black wheels it's an option right you know if you like them right if you don't it's one of the other sets of wheels that they offer so you know the one I had it's EPA rated at 21 miles per gallon combined 19 City 24 Highway i got i think about 19 miles per gallon with the the telluride and notice to our listeners that I do keep repeating Yeah, tell you right in there. So is the 2021 Kia telluride sx

Dan Roth  13:25  
and sx so that's the sporty ish trim right sx versus I forget forget exactly how Kia trim

Sam Abuelsamid  13:31  
yes sx is a little more sporty hence the black wheels you know

Rebecca Lindland  13:36  
the top trim

Sam Abuelsamid  13:37  
yes you can also get you know the the LX and the x trims the X is kind of the the other more premium trim that is you know maybe got you know shining your wheels on it instead

Dan Roth  13:50  
of black that would be this this is the Dan old man option

Sam Abuelsamid  13:55  
yeah it's the same yeah same power train drives the same way you know I'm not sure if the suspension tuning is any different on the SX I don't think it is. You know this one had the towing package. It did have the SX prestige package, which gives you the heads up display and 110 volt inverter. So if you need to plug in some stuff, you know that that needs more than just USB, the Napa leather the heated and ventilated second row seats also a very nice, nice addition to very nicely on those hot or cold days and rain sensing windshield wipers and the By the way, the black wheels and the black grille are actually part of the nightfall edition package which is 195 bucks. So

Dan Roth  14:45  
why do they have to make this such sounds so ominous?

Sam Abuelsamid  14:48  
Like, I don't know nice shade and shade right. So, whatever, you know what once once you've finished, you know paying for the vehicle, you know You don't care. You forget about

Rebecca Lindland  15:03  
Stan, you're not a marketing Maven or you know,

Dan Roth  15:06  
they put stock or sound effects in it too, with the footsteps in the snow. Someone's sneaking up on you. Now I'm

Rebecca Lindland  15:12  
looking for I'm gonna have the telluride in a couple weeks. I'm definitely looking forward to it because I had it. I know like a year and a half ago for over Memorial Day weekend. And I know this will shock our listeners, but I bought something and I needed to go retrieve it. On the Jersey Shore, Memorial Day weekend, on the Jersey Shore, Jersey Shore, not crazy pre pandemic, not ideal. That's nuts. So I got up and I told the story actually on wheel bearings. So I got up at like seven I got into the car at seven in the morning and got there about 930 met the woman she was actually nice enough to come out to the Mama's rest area on the Garden State Parkway. And so she, we I was probably there for maybe like 30 minutes, and I get back on the highway now this time heading north and southbound in those like, you know, like, almost like behind me. The traffic had just built and built and built and as I'm heading northbound you're on

Sam Abuelsamid  16:08  
the leading edge of that wave. I was riding that wave to the shore

Dan Roth  16:12  
back like I've done that on the GSP so many times like oh my god, and you just look at me like Oh, man, I'm glad we're not going there. The last time we we we went to Atlantic City we borrowed a transit and I wound up on the sama like an idiot with it with a scalpel. But the that was what it was like going home to was was we're headed north on the parkway and just southbound. This is getting more and more stacked up. He's like

Rebecca Lindland  16:37  
just incredible. But I was very impressed. So So I basically was in that car for like five hours because I got home by noon. And it was so good. Like it and you're driving through I went I went through parts of Manhattan, I'd go over the George Washington Bridge. These are all like heavy. That's a really travels routes. Yeah. But it was really good. And that's a big vehicle. But it didn't drive big.

Dan Roth  17:04  
No, it does. But it gets that big vehicle fuel economy though. Like Sam, you were saying 19 miles. So yeah, that's that's okay. But that was the one thing that I felt like I wanted it to do better at was just better fuel. It's hard to make something that big and heavy get better economy. But that was I wish it could get a little bit more

Sam Abuelsamid  17:20  
miles. Yeah. But you know, to your comment, Rebecca about how how big it is, you know, I had to my daughter's house that she owns. I needed a new storm door, the storm storm door needed to be replaced. And so I went to Lowe's. Yeah, folded down the second or third row seats, slid right in all the way in, you know, up up to, you know, the front of the seats there. So I mean, there's a lot of space there. And if you can, if you and there was plenty of excess space, you know, with I'm not sure if you could fit a four by eight sheet in there. But you can get pretty close, you know, so there's, there's a lot of cargo space available in these things if you need them. And even even, you know, leaving the second row seats up, you know, just with third row down. There's a lot of volume available to you there.

Rebecca Lindland  18:10  
I'm sorry, Dan, I just want to because I looked back and I remembered so over that 200 186 miles was that round trip? It was I got 25.5 miles per gallon.

Dan Roth  18:21  
That's really good. Yeah, that's me. I

Rebecca Lindland  18:23  
mean, I'm not keeping it at 5500. Right.

Dan Roth  18:26  
I didn't I didn't get mileage that that good when I had to tell you right. I think it was more in the high teens or real low 20s like Sam got so you must have had just a featherlight touch.

Rebecca Lindland  18:37  
I was very delicate. You know me, very delicate, delicate, but I love that vehicle. I think it's a really, really cool. It's a really cool ride. I liked it a lot.

Sam Abuelsamid  18:48  
So including delivery charge. This one came to $50,180 which is not inexpensive, but also not out of line with the segment. I mean, you know, you go look at something like an explorer or traverse, you know, that's comparably equipped. You're going to be paying, you know, in that high 40 to $50,000 price range these days. That's that, unfortunately, is the price of entry to a vehicle like this today.

Dan Roth  19:17  
Oh, no, that's not but that's not entry though. That's the price of true getting the top trim. Yes. much lower the

Rebecca Lindland  19:24  
price is 33

Sam Abuelsamid  19:26  
Yeah, the price you can eat. And considering that, you know, you're still getting the same power train, you know, you're you know, you're gonna be missing out on you know, some equipment like you know, the big sunroof and things like that. But you're still getting a lot even at $33,000 grant that's a front wheel drive version. You know, a couple grand more if you want to get all wheel drive on that bass version. But still, you know it. It's it's, it is a very good value. You know, the Kia Telluride, sx.

Rebecca Lindland  19:57  
Yeah, I agree. I think it's a fantastic vehicle. I think it's well worth people's time to look at it to test it. And of course, it also comes with a great warranty to know. I, you know, I, I am a huge fan of this vehicle. And as I said, I can't wait to have it again in just a couple of weeks.

Dan Roth  20:14  
I think the thing when you're buying in that segment, you know, when you're looking at the Telluride, you should endure cross shopping with the Explorer and the Traverse, and even the palisade. The thing that stands out to me is the and the Pathfinder, which is brand new. So we'll have to see how that does. But the thing that stands out to me is the, the thoughtfulness of the features that they've included. So how easy is it for you to use? How is that third row access? How is it you know, to fold the seats to get to it? What about when you've got that hatch open? How is it full the third row down you know, a lot of cars have the electric release or the power meter,

Sam Abuelsamid  20:55  
which this does. It's got yellow switches in the cargo area there to look the third row seats down.

Rebecca Lindland  21:01  
Isn't it? The palisade though has electronically and they tell you right did not get that option, I think yeah,

Dan Roth  21:09  
it's just like released them yet. No,

Sam Abuelsamid  21:11  
this one had this one had power folding third row seats.

Rebecca Lindland  21:14  
I think maybe for the first year.

Sam Abuelsamid  21:16  
Yeah, palisade had and most likely, you know, on the lower trim levels, you would you would not get power seats. So this is power folding, you know, both up and down. So you don't have to reach down to pull them up. And just

Dan Roth  21:31  
until the cable drive mechanism stops. I keep my cars a long time. I'm not throwing any, any.

Sam Abuelsamid  21:39  
Some some of us keep cars beyond the length of a typical lease.

Rebecca Lindland  21:43  
And some of us don't.

Dan Roth  21:46  
They're all wonderful when they're new. So that's great. So that's the telluride sx, Rebecca. Yes. What is in your driveway? Right now?

Rebecca Lindland  21:56  
There's a lot of stuff in my driveway. It's a little overwhelming at times because I it's it's not the plan ever to have three media cars at the same time. 

Dan Roth  22:05  
Now I know you're trying to create your own media empire. Yeah.

every other person in America, you know,

Rebecca Lindland  22:11  
factored in with snow and you know, everything but so. So I had the 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E. And I gotta tell you, I'm a big fan. It was so much fun. I just I mean, there's a couple of miracles that happened while I was had the sport days. One I didn't get a speeding ticket to I didn't get a speeding ticket and three, I didn't get a speeding ticket. This thing so there's there's what's called the connector up in Wilton, near where my mom and my sister live. And it's three, three miles,

Dan Roth  22:51  
and it's straight and

Rebecca Lindland  22:52  
it's straight. As described, it's well named, it's a connector. It connects you know one kind of what was supposed to be the continuation of a highway that never got approved. But it connects to the merit Parkway route 15 and 25. I was gonna say it was 995 to 15 I've missed that once or twice and but like cuz then you wind up having to drive to New Haven. Yes, exactly. Right. So so this is this is actually like, you know if I've ever come home late at night from there, like I'll see like hot rod cars on the right hand side waiting to launch. I think I talked about actually one time this out.

Unknown Speaker  23:29  
Bruce Springsteen

Sam Abuelsamid  23:34  
lived in Connecticut.

Rebecca Lindland  23:37  
A couple of months ago. I it was probably about 1230 at night and I was driving home and there was an Audi A six parked on the right side. And you know, I was probably doing AV and that thing blew by me It must have been doing at least 150 because the I can't remember which car I was in an SUV. And it shuck it shut the car when it went by

Dan Roth  24:02  
and you get the wave off the front and then

Rebecca Lindland  24:05  
you can get so anyway, so in the machi so I there was nobody behind me. So I was at a full stop. And I just floored it and that thing was at 100 in a second. It was unbelievable. It was so much fun. It was just the the instant torque on that vehicle was just unbelievable. And I loved. I loved having that kind of power. It was actually a lot of fun. We did like the little performance muffler sound do that

Sam Abuelsamid  24:38  
you can do idle mode.

Rebecca Lindland  24:39  
unbridled, unbridled mode was a riot. I mean, that thing was hilarious, like so. So I had my 13 year old niece with me. I picked her up in school

Dan Roth  24:48  
so I see contributing to the delinquency of a minor 100%. Kid

Sam Abuelsamid  24:55  
I've done it with my kids.

Rebecca Lindland  24:57  
So why did you learn that picked up at the school bus line. And then we drove all through like, you know, the curvy parts of town and everything. And so we put it in unbridled mode and you can feel it. Like you could actually feel the car changing instantly. And she started giggling and she's not a Giggler. And I was like, right, you can feel it. And then engaging. I didn't have as much like there wasn't as much definitive difference in engage mode, and I kind of wish they called it like, like dressage and you know, something that more nobody asked me.

Dan Roth  25:36  
it'll, it'll trot around in neat circles.

Rebecca Lindland  25:38  
Exactly. It's very well behaved. Yeah, right. That's the thing. That's the thing. I think, gosh,

Dan Roth  25:42  
dressage is more of like a Lincoln thing.

Rebecca Lindland  25:44  
I know. Right? Well, that's the problem. Right. And so then I was trying to think like, barrel racing, you know, I was trying to go more rodeo. But it was a lot of fun, though I loved it. I did have a couple of instances. So the charging. So the the Mustang McKee comes with the Ford pass, I wasn't able to get it started, like Janet registered or anything that's not a ding on Ford by any stretch. That's all about me. And but I did kind of drive around for some trying to find a charger for the experience. And the first one that it sent me to was, was actually like, not really a viable charger. So then I then I drove around a little bit more, and I eventually ended up at Greenwich Town Hall, where there is a charge point charger. So I was there, I activated that with minimal issues. And I was I ended up doing a conference call, actually, with some of the Ford engineers telling them about some of my experiences that I've had sync had didn't like my phone, it didn't like the cord, it didn't like any of the cords with my, my android Samsung phone, which is actually exactly what I ran into with the Genesis g 90, which is kind of funny, because Genesis is a Korean company, and my phone is Korean. That apparently does not matter. So

Sam Abuelsamid  27:02  
it was on a Samsung, Samsung and Hyundai are very different company.

Rebecca Lindland  27:07  
Exactly. So I've had this problem before with the cords and the Android system, Ford is aware of it, they were very nice enough to arrange the call for me. And so I was at the charger for probably I was on the call for about 30 minutes with them. And then actually, one of the town guys came by. And this was like infrastructure in action. He was actually hanging the signs to direct people to the charger. So so that was like,

Sam Abuelsamid  27:38  
and that's that's actually a great thing to hear. Because one of the big issues, you know, there's there's an increasing number of chargers being installed all over the country. But most of them are really hard to find. There's no signage, I actually have a machi this week as well. And I've gone to two different electrify America stations. Yeah. And, you know, over the last couple years to most of the other stations I've gone to, there's almost never any signage to tell you, oh, the chargers are over here. You know, it's not like going to a gas station where you have a big ass sign there yet.

Rebecca Lindland  28:17  
I think Sam, you and I talked about this, because because i, you and I were offline talking about this. And you said, Oh no, there's a charger right at the shopping center, like I have been to that shopping center. And I cannot find the charger. I'm sure it's there somewhere. But there's no sign is the same kind of thing. So Town Hall was actually putting up signs throughout the parking garage to direct people there. So I ended up being there for about an hour and 15 minutes or so because then the sign guy is a big car guy. We started talking and blah, blah, blah. So I only got like 25 or 30 miles in that hour of charging. So clearly a level two charger, you know, it would have been fine if it would have been a beautiful day. And I could have gone for a walk around Greenwich and left it sitting there. It was, you know, 19 degrees, so I wasn't doing that. So it was you know, it just took a long time at that level to which isn't a surprise. It's not unexpected, but it's something you know, Sam, you and I were talking again, like you've got to have a charger at home just full stop. Like you have to have that if you're going to get one of these vehicles. But with that being said, That car is so quiet in the inside of it like driving along not just because it doesn't have an engine but the insulation that they did the NVH is incredibly good sitting there 19 degrees while we were in a protected parking garage. I was only on the second level so it was still like we were still cold. But it was so warm in that car for an extended period of time, which was really good like there's there was just it's so well thought out, I absolutely loved it. And I really, you know, I've been wanting to get an Eevee I've been looking at different cars, and for the pricing for the price point for the experience. I loved it. I really it's definitely on my list.

Dan Roth  30:13  
So you think that the Mach-E is like the the ideal execution of an Eevee right now like, you think that Ford has really done their homework and created a car that is going to make that adoption pretty seamless and easy for people that charging availability aside like it just to me it sounds like you were your overall real positive about how how well it all comes together in the Mach-E.

Rebecca Lindland  30:45  
And I'm very positive about it. I think that it gives it it gives that muscle car domestically oriented buyer, a really viable vehicle to buy. There is nothing wrong with the Chevy Bolt. But this is a Chevy Bolt, but

Sam Abuelsamid  31:05  
but the bolt the bolt is a form factor that American car buyers have no interest in, right?

Dan Roth  31:11  
Because they're so dumb. They're so dumb.

Sam Abuelsamid  31:15  
Yeah, you always hear that, you know, it's all about timing, you know, and the timing of the bolt was so wrong. You know, when clearly when they started development on that, you know, which would you know, came out in 2017 2013? Yes, people were still buying small cars. By 2017 that had completely flipped. And cars were clearly on the way out. So they completely miss timed the launch of that vehicle.

Dan Roth  31:44  
In Jim's defense, they are now working on the bolt, Evie Yes. Which we should see at some point. I wish they they had gone on next week. There we go. I wish they had gone a little faster with that. Because you right the bowl just looks like a small hatchback, which is exactly what it is. It just happens to be a really great electric car that you get 250 miles out of. And it's almost as painless and seamless as the machi that you're talking

Rebecca Lindland  32:07  
about when I drove it a couple years ago. So GM was was good enough to give me one while I was out when I worked for Kelley Blue Book. And I was visiting the West Coast office. And I remember driving it and thinking I don't feel like I'm driving the future.

Dan Roth  32:25  
Really?

Rebecca Lindland  32:26  
I just it just

Sam Abuelsamid  32:29  
it does feel very conventional.

Dan Roth  32:33  
Yeah. That's I think that's one of the things.

Sam Abuelsamid  32:36  
I think most people don't want the future. They want something that just worked

Rebecca Lindland  32:40  
well. But not the machi works. And I feel like I'm driving the future.

Dan Roth  32:45  
Right. That's what I was gonna say. It sounds like it tastes like both.

Rebecca Lindland  32:48  
Because the future doesn't have to be weird. Right?

Dan Roth  32:52  
Well, I'm not weird. vention.

Rebecca Lindland  32:54  
All right. I felt like from the materials from I don't know, it was it was I mean, part of it certainly was the fact that it is it's, it's a compact car. And, and the Mustang Mach-E is not you know, the Chevy Bolt is very much of a small compact car. And I just felt like them this Mustang. First of all, it's certainly honored honors, the legacy of the brand of the of the nameplate Mustang. You know, you feel like you're driving something special. You feel like I mean, with that torque. There's so much power there. But again, it's it's the it's the type of power we'll feel in the future. And that's a lot of fun. You know, that's why it was so much fun.

Sam Abuelsamid  33:39  
This isn't even this isn't even the hot Mach-E. Yeah. The summer they're launching the GT. So. So this this version that we have right now, you know, if you get the all wheel drive version, all wheel drive, you have about 350 or 360 horsepower, I think and about 450 or so foot pounds of torque. It'll do zero to 60 in about five seconds, which is quite, it's very quick.

Rebecca Lindland  34:05  
And those five seconds are fun.

Sam Abuelsamid  34:07  
Yeah, and it feels very quick. But you know, this summer when they launched the GT mimaki GT, that one will have a larger front motor. You know, it'll be I think, somewhere in the neighborhood of about 450 horsepower total, closer to 600 foot pounds of torque. And that one is expected to run zero to 60 in the low three second range. That was it, you know, equivalent to the Shelby GT 500 Yeah, yeah, that's what that's what a GT 500 does is low three seconds or 60. And you know, this thing will have zero emissions. And you know, granted, you know, that this is by no means the fastest Evie out there. You know, the Mach-E is pretty comparable in performance to the Tesla Model y and in fact, the model y is very much you know, the direct competitor You know, it is for clearly targeted that vehicle with the machi. Yeah. And, you know, they they copied the Tesla playbook, which we've talked about before. And then they did it very well. It's I think

Dan Roth  35:14  
what Ford has done with the Mach-E though is they've they've copied what people like about the Tesla that that. Yeah, that distinctiveness that futurism, I think it's smart for them to brand it as a Mustang, even though it's a sedan and that sort of usability sense of it. What what they've brought to the plate too, is the, the manufacturing, skill and technology. And just like, Ford's been building cars for 100 plus years, didn't have to learn things. You know, it was it was interesting listening to, to auto line the other day, and they played a snippet from I guess, Sandy Munroe got to interview Elon Musk. And one of the things that Elan Musk was talking about was, when they develop the model three, they organizationally, they didn't think of the whole picture. So they had, you know, the back subframe of that the model three has like 70 pieces or something, and they're working on solving that. But that's because they talked to like, the individuals in charge of each piece and said, What, what's the best way to do this? And, you know, the best materials to make this out of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and, and so they got, like, you know, a bunch of different answers. And they didn't have somebody to say, wait a minute.

Sam Abuelsamid  36:32  
How do you know, assembly?

do have that person? It's Ilan, that's that's the problem with Tesla. Everything reports up to Eli, she is the final arbiter on everything at Tesla.

Dan Roth  36:49  
So but that's like one of it's almost like a rookie mistake, you know, like, you would think, Okay, great. It's, it's wonderful that, you know, we're building each little piece of this, in the ideal fashion, that's marvelous. But when you put it together, you know, you need to consider how are these materials even going to just like, are they going to corrode each other, if you've got aluminum bolted to steel, that's a problem. So very remedial, right? Talking about that kind of thing for it has that pretty well figured out? So that's what I'm excited about with the mock, he is just seeing how that that sort of large scale car building can take this, this idea that is really good. And the, the, the nice user upgrades that come from an Eevee that has embraced tech, and seeing how how that can sort of propagate out in the world built as well as, say, the F 150 is built maybe better?

Rebecca Lindland  37:47  
Yeah, no, I mean, I just, I thought it was really, really well done and well executed. I certainly had my share fair, fair share of issues with the infotainment system. But that is, but first of all, they do the otas they're very aware of it. You actually one of the things I really liked about it also, is that you have the opportunity to provide feedback right in the vehicle. So they've got your Vin, they know exactly which vehicle it is. And this is for everybody. This isn't just for journalists. This is

Dan Roth  38:15  
it's not just for Rebecca, who has Jim Farley on.

Rebecca Lindland  38:21  
But no, it's really cool, though, because then you feel like you're part of the solution. And one of the things that, you know, people that are buying EBS today, they are innovators and early adopters, and they're willing to overlook some things in order to be part of the solution or to be part of how do we further this technology along. So the idea that, you know, with just a few clicks of a button, you can you can provide feedback, I actually my only recommendation is that they make it more visible. Because I don't know if I would have found it had they not told me about it. But you know, that opportunity to say, Hey, this is some of the issues that I'm facing. And it was pretty comprehensive. So they're asking for feedback from their buyers. And I really liked that. I think that that's great. Obviously, you want to solve as many problems before it goes to launch. But if you can't, at least, you know, as you're driving this Mustang Mach-E, you can provide feedback I directly to the people at Ford and their engineering and their engineering team. And that's really cool.

Sam Abuelsamid  39:20  
So let me let me ask you a question, Rebecca, setting aside Android Auto vomit and you know, we know that there is a bug in the software that is causing many recent Android phones to when you plug it in via USB port, it forces the phone to reboot and just goes into a boot loop. Aside from that, if you if you didn't try to plug in your phone, what did you think of the rest of the interface, you know, on this 15 and a half inch screen the way that they've the way that they've laid out this interface and how you use it. What did you think of that?

Rebecca Lindland  39:56  
I actually thought it was pretty good. I mean I liked having the hard drive There. And, you know, I liked the visibility of it. I, you know, they have the they've got, you know, the, the instrument cluster is pretty clear. So I didn't have any other issues with the end, I'm not I, you know, I haven't gone into a Ford product in quite it probably over a year. So it's not like I'm a sync guru by any stretch. And I felt like it was pretty intuitive. I liked the fact that they've got like little panels that you can then move towards the little cars. Right. And so, you know, I thought that there was a lot of good information there. I didn't find it particularly distracting. They've got you, you can you can customize your profile, which was really nice. So I don't know, I I didn't, I certainly didn't fault the SYNC system, just because it didn't like my phone. That's very specific. But overall, I thought that they had done a really nice job with it. It does definitely take some getting used to and some digging in and such. But I thought it was really pretty it was it was quite good.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:08  
Yeah. And for what it's worth, the Android problem is apparently a problem with Android Auto. Ford's working with Google to address it. And there is a an update coming to address that in the next few weeks. Yeah. So I talked to Ford about it the other day. And so that's coming. Yeah, they're

Rebecca Lindland  41:25  
they're very, they're they are quite aggressive about addressing this issue. They're not very, you know, they're not burying their head in the sand at all. I again, you know, just looking at some of the menus, I think it was it was pretty clear. I'm I'm really bad at some of the stuff like it says controls and settings. I don't know what the difference is between those two. So you know, I had to kind of toggle back and forth to see what was covered under controls, what's covered, covered under Settings, there's a little icon that you can actually change based on your personal profile that has like a Mustang symbol, and then they have another one with a car. I don't know what those differences are. So I had to dig in and you know, get another layer of what did those two things mean. And one thing that came up, that was a little bit annoying, was when I went to when I went into the charging, and I had it plugged in, I wanted to see how much time I had left on it. And so I went into full accessory power mode. And the dialog box that pops up covers the charging information that you need. So I have a picture of that. And I was like, I don't want to turn the whole car on. I just want to see you I see a little bit information. It's so that was kind of one of those funny things like even if they had moved it over to the right a little bit, I would have gotten more information than just having it pop up right in the middle of the screen. But, you know, again, I think I I think overall, I really I liked it. It wasn't that I went in with any kind of prejudice. But I came out feeling really, really good about that vehicle about the Ford Mustang Mach-E, just to be clear.

Dan Roth  43:07  
Well, good. I am hotly anticipating my opportunity to drive one. We'll see how long it takes to charge on my lowly 110 1614

Sam Abuelsamid  43:19  
days

Dan Roth  43:21  
before this drop is a thing. But that's that's one of the experiences actually that when I get an Eevee I like to try out is sort of what the local charging infrastructure is like,

Rebecca Lindland  43:31  
Yeah, for sure. That was a very good lesson that for sure. I it was a good opportunity for me to really drive around and see. And again, I did it a little bit blind. And I in fairness to Ford, they had prepared me better than I realized. And so but overall again, it was it was a very good experience. Let me just touch on one. I'm sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid  43:51  
Go ahead. Rebecca finished finishers thing though,

Rebecca Lindland  43:54  
I didn't know if we were done.

Sam Abuelsamid  43:56  
But I just want to address one other thing, you know, this week is I think it is comparable and where you are. It's we've we've finally gotten really cold here in Michigan, you know, right now this morning was nine degrees outside, and even even the shoe size, temperature. Yeah, even on even on Friday, when I had to go to a meeting on Friday morning. You know, it was about 15 degrees out when I got up. And one thing with ease that you know for anybody that if you live in a cold climate, or actually even a warm climate, one of the really advantageous things about ETS is pretty much every electric vehicle out there on the market has a feature called preconditioning. Which when you have the car plugged in, this is something you should take advantage of. You can schedule in there, what time you plan to leave in the morning or you know actually any time any time of day and tell it you know if you want the car warmed up So, you know, on Friday morning, I had to leave at 830. And I said, You know, I want it warm when I leave at 830. And so what happens? Because ease, you know, unlike an internal combustion vehicle, you know, within an engine, you have this big source of waste heat, you know. And so you can just mostly waste though, while you flow that hot coolant through a heat exchanger in the cabin, you can warm the cabin air without, you know, putting any additional load on the engine, you don't have that with an electric vehicle, you don't have that source of heat. And so they have to use a heater of some sort that's drawing power from the battery is going to cut into your range. But it takes a lot less energy to maintain a certain temperature than it does to raise the temperature. And so you should you know, if you have an Eevee, and you live in cold climate, or warm climate, take advantage of that, because, you know, what I did is I said, Okay, I'm leaving at 830, I want the car warm, somewhere around, you know, eight o'clock or so, or, you know, 745 while the car is still plugged in, it automatically turns on the heaters, you know, turns on the cabin heat warms up the temperature to 67 degrees in the cabin. And so I get in the car, it's nice and warm, you know, I can even turn down the temperature and a little bit, a few degrees turn on the seat heaters and the steering wheel heater chairs were hot, and I was nicely comfortable all the way up to my destination. Without you know, without drawing as much power from the battery so

Dan Roth  46:31  
well. So and when you think of the the total efficiency of that to you're using is it resistive electric heat that warms the cabin.

Sam Abuelsamid  46:40  
In this one. Yes, some newer, some newer TVs are starting to incorporate heat pumps, which are even more efficient. But yeah, I think I think the Mach-E is still using resistance resistance.

Dan Roth  46:51  
And either way, like some heat pumps will also have resistive heat to boost it because at a certain point, the heat pumps have gotten really good at heat as well as AC, but you get to a certain point where it's just too cold. And they can't, can't do it. So they still need something hot to make heat. But the point I was trying to make is that for every bit of energy you put into resistance of heat, you get heat versus you know, you've got to burn gasoline or diesel at at best 40 something percent efficiency to get some heat out of it with the the combustion engine, so it's just a much more efficient way to to create a warm cabin. And you know, you could probably actually make make it much more efficient on a regular engine if you were to die, maybe not because it's just waste heat. But I'm just thinking like you get the cabin warm faster for sure. With resistive heat in an internal combustion car versus waiting for that coolant to warm up. So it's it's just a much more energy conscious way to take comfort in condition the cabin for comfort. That's my rambling, I'm gonna stop.

Rebecca Lindland  48:01  
No, and the heated seats worked great. And the other thing too, I wanted to mention the door handles, which had been very controversial at times. Oh, that's right. So I it was funny because when I first went up to the vehicle, it had snow on it, and I actually could

Dan Roth  48:14  
Mustang Mach-E, the Mustang Mustang.

Rebecca Lindland  48:17  
When I first walked up to the 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E, I, I had snow on it. And so I couldn't see where the button was that the release button. And so which was kind of funny because I would love that to be like, as you walk up like let lit at all times, you probably wouldn't even look at you know, during the day, but when it's cloudy out like that, you can then see it a little bit better. But I tried it both with my right and left hand to see like how it was and I actually it was actually really pretty usable overall. I don't know how it would be for people with extensively long fingernails. My nails are not extensively long. But that is one thing that I would be can use.

Sam Abuelsamid  49:01  
You know, you can just curl up your fingers, press, press the button with your knuckles. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  49:05  
I mean, I've discovered you know, through this pandemic, when I can always get my nails done that there's a lot of things that you can do differently and not use actually use your fingernail or your the pad of your hand. But overall, I didn't have any issues with them. I thought they worked out they worked out just fine.

Sam Abuelsamid  49:21  
They've worked they worked much more reliably for me than any Tesla door handles ever have. That's your in the in the multiple times that have driven, you know, the Model S and, you know, over the years, you know, those door handles that are supposed to pop out when you approach the car. It's very hit or miss whether they will actually emerge from the door. These work 100% of the time. All the time.

Rebecca Lindland  49:47  
Yeah. So good. McKee. Well done.

Dan Roth  49:51  
Nice. Well, I'm finishing up my time with the 2021 Cadillac Escalade, we touched on it last week. And I've just spent More more miles and more days with it in the ensuing time, and we I took it on a trip we just we drove through Boston last night just to to put some miles on it and get it out on the highway and see see how it does in its element. And man, this thing I just felt like I could just drive just keep going.

Rebecca Lindland  50:18  
And how far is that? How far is from your place to Boston?

Dan Roth  50:22  
It's like 45 miles. But we we took the roundabout route. So we went down through Worcester and out the pike. I mean, it has a fast lane transponder, and it's like

Rebecca Lindland  50:34  
frijoles.

Dan Roth  50:35  
Yeah. Like now, even with the press cars. They did. They're not you don't pay the tolls. Like you don't stop at the toll booth. entry. So just scans. It's all wireless split. Yeah. So now press cars, they get the bill. I don't and I'm happy to pay the tolls. Mind you. Yeah, not swiping. But we took it in. Yeah, we went, we went the pike. And then we went through the Big Dig, you know, got a got to see our federal tax dollars at work with that up across the zaken Bridge and stuff. So it's just it's really in its element as a big highway cruiser. It's very comfortable. It's like a cloud. It's pretty smooth and quiet, and easy to drive in that element. And the four wheel drive system meant that I could tuck it into the snowbank in front of the house for the last couple of days without worrying about getting it stuck right. Now, because we did have some snow, we had about 10 inches of snow, and it's still there. But sometimes I have a single lane driveway, so I need to jogging the cars around. So I just stuck it there. So it's tucked off the road. And so it's just that kind of all purpose, very luxurious family vehicle. It is a little ridiculous to haul around all that truck stuff for a station wagon. But you know, the escalate and Cadillac itself is supposed to be the best of what GM can do. And I for any vehicle type. And I really feel like this generation of the escalate, achieves that in a way that maybe previous escalates, hadn't quite done, at least for a while. I was I mean, we know we all know that I hate screens. I was really impressed with the screens in this because you can dim them right down it has a dark mode is return the instrument dinner all the way down, it shuts off all the ambient light all the things that are in the light switches and stuff. And it it leaves you with the speedometer and trip, trip meter and stuff.

Sam Abuelsamid  52:37  
Well one of the nice things about the escalator is its OLED displays. Yes. So you know, unlike an LCD, that's always going to have some light bleed through there. You know, it's, you know, when you turn it off, you know, you turn off those pixels, they're off.

Dan Roth  52:52  
Yeah, and that's it. That's fantastic. The OLED screens look good, you know, they have nice resolution, good color saturation. They don't seem to wash out in the sun, the functions that I think a lot of people will like that I was a little less keen on probably because I didn't really maneuvered around in parking lots and stuff that much we didn't go to those places where you you know I did do a school pickup which was a little tight but it's got the augmented reality camera that you can put in the instrument panel and you can also switch that to night vision so it puts it right behind the speedometer which is it's not a bad place for it it's you don't want to drive looking at it but especially the night vision if you're in like a foggy situation out on some of the roads out here. Where right now it's not it's not sort of deer collision season but no

Rebecca Lindland  53:51  
you never know.

Unknown Speaker  53:52  
Yeah, always deer season

Dan Roth  53:54  
right? You don't want to hit one of those things even with an escalate so being able to see it around blind curves just in the distance or something like that is really useful and then you know the luxury was great the materials the comfort all of those features that make a Cadillac a Cadillac, I know they sound a little frivolous mean things like the massaging seats in the heated steering wheel and all

Rebecca Lindland  54:21  
the cooler in the middle.

Dan Roth  54:22  
Yeah, the cooler in the middle. That's awesome. And you know, just the wood trim and stuff they i i know i gushed about it a little bit last week, but they've done a really, really great job just making it feel special inside and making it feel luxurious and like a well appointed living room or something and it's not. That's hard to do. And and GM hasn't done that quite as well. In the past as they have here. It feels really premium and so they've done a great job with that it's got the screens for the two captains chairs, which my kids enjoyed playing with although they were a little bummed. Didn't have games on it like the Craigslist they were able to follow along like that with the nav so my my son's like what we're in Natick? Yep. And we're going into, you know, whatever town.

Rebecca Lindland  55:13  
Are we here kind of part of it like that Chrysler has? Was it that kind of thing? Yeah.

Dan Roth  55:18  
Are we there? Yes. Yeah. He was just like looking at the magic. Where are we going? Where's home?

Rebecca Lindland  55:24  
That's awesome, though.

Dan Roth  55:25  
Yeah. And the thoughtfulness comes through when you start to use it. And one of the my favorite features is, it has the power liftgate that will open hands free, and they have a little they have a light. You know, like, it's pretty common now for the lights in the mirrors, the puddle lamps to project a logo. And they, they do but the, the tailgate, there's a light that it's smaller, but it also projects a logo under the rear bumper. And that's where you wave your foot

Sam Abuelsamid  55:57  
to that. That is very

Dan Roth  55:59  
handy. And it just made me like nylons. Like

Sam Abuelsamid  56:01  
the number of times I've been kicking my foot around under the bumper trying to get the damn thing to open.

Rebecca Lindland  56:06  
Right? Do you wonder if anybody's looking and hoping they're not?

Dan Roth  56:10  
Right? And I just was like, Oh, that's really, really nice. Because that's exactly the problem I've had. It's like, you wave your foot. And like I don't, I don't know how to. Like, it just helps. It's subtle, but it helps. And so that's that's the kind of thing that charms people it's one one little feature like that, but the escalate is really well done. The 6.2 liter V eight is super entertaining. And I did manage to get it up to about 18 miles per gallon average. Highway. So wasn't that wasn't too bad. Apparently, somebody who had this before me got 22 I was like, Alright, you either didn't drive it or

Unknown Speaker  56:51  
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  56:53  
Recently coasting downhill. Yeah.

Rebecca Lindland  56:56  
But those kinds of small details, their emotional solutions, where, you know, they, it just makes you feel good. Right? It limits you get out of the car feeling really good versus frustrated. You know, like we've talked about with many like infotainment systems or just, you know, buttons and knobs and, you know, where are they? I and that it's just, you know, when you have that, that thoughtfully designed, emotional solutions, and I think I, you know, there's there are some companies that certainly do it better than others.

Dan Roth  57:28  
Yeah, well, the Cadillac did a great job with the escalator this time around. I even commented last week how the styling was, like not as maybe not as as impressive as in the past either. But it's kind of grown on me. I like that it's a little bit more conservative, I think I'd probably like it on a longer version, so that the lines are stretched out a little bit. But it's not, it's certainly not bad looking. But the interior of the escalate is really where It impresses and that's probably as it should be.

Rebecca Lindland  57:59  
Yes, for sure.

Dan Roth  58:03  
We had a lot of questions pop up over the last couple of weeks, and we didn't really touch on too many last week because we had Alex Roy.

Rebecca Lindland  58:12  
Yeah, I love that. This one from john code. Coco Krasinski.

Dan Roth  58:18  
Yeah, what is it, john? JOHN, john. This way, Coco sinskey. I think Yeah, he's out this way. Thank you In Massachusetts, Southern Worcester County or something?

Rebecca Lindland  58:28  
Yeah, so I love so I'll go ahead and start reading his question. Really enjoyed this episode, I assume I think it may be 179 and felt the need to reach out I found it very relatable. I was listening today while out for a walk on my lunch break. And as a car drove by, I couldn't hear what one of you were driving. later on. In the episode one of the listeners suggested mentioned the car during the discussion a few times, especially helpful for people who pick up and put down listening to the pod throughout the day, which is why we have now made a conscious effort to tell you exactly what we're driving multiple times throughout our conversation. So we do listen to you and we do enjoy these kinds of comments. So john continues. I also enjoyed hearing what other people are driving, no offense, but your garages make me want to pull my hair I Sam has a 30 plus year old Miata that I would love to fit in but can't I have tried but six foot three 260 pounds. My knees are in the dash. Dan likes Panther chassis FMC

Unknown Speaker  59:26  
Oh products and

Dan Roth  59:27  
let's be clear, I don't like them. It was an inheritance. It was Do you need a correlate function? You

Sam Abuelsamid  59:35  
know you love the Panthers.

Dan Roth  59:37  
I wish I was curious and amused by it but it's it's very quaint and definitely not a I've made a point of telling people how bad they are.

Rebecca Lindland  59:46  
There is something iconic about Ford's Panther. it for sure. continues and john continues with and stripper versions of Jake branch.

Dan Roth  1:00:00  
Again, our grand cherokee is limited. It's not It's not the summit, but it's not nice, it's

Rebecca Lindland  1:00:07  
leather, for better or worse. And lastly, Rebecca drives a tiny little Buick that I may fit in or may not refer to my size above. Now, I will tell you that my brother Steve, who is six foot three, and now is probably about 195. He's, he's he was, but he was in there, he was about to 21 point. He's actually been borrowing the car, he's been borrowing cocoa for the last month, month and a half at least. And he's been quite happy with it. So john, you would actually I do think that you would fit in it because Steve is I probably doesn't weigh as much but he's, but he's a big guy. I mean, he's wide and, and very tall. So john continues, thankfully, all is not lost. All of you get to drive a wonderful variety of other vehicles. And that's why I listened to you. If I were you, I wouldn't spend a king's ransom on vehicles, either. This is why I loved hearing the segment with the listeners. So he was talking about when the podcast is the live the live show. Yeah,

Dan Roth  1:01:07  
yeah. Well, and I appreciate his feedback on our our own personal garages and that that is part of it. I when we bought the Grand Cherokee, I was really amused by the way you turn into a feature buyer all of a sudden, because we will talk about things. As we drive the press cars will say Oh, you don't really need this. You don't really want that. And then when you when it's your own money, you wind up making different choices than you you do when you're counseling people after a week in a press car. It's it's interesting sort of contrast. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  1:01:37  
no, it is and how I came to own cocoa. I so I, I had been through a progression of vehicles. And at one point, I had a BMW X five, which was a ridiculous car for me to own it was way too big. But I had had two x threes, and they didn't have anything else at the time. And then I went from the x five to the Fiat 500, which was not ideal either. And then I'm when I was overseas, so I knew I was coming back from Saudi. And I actually went and test drove, I think it was a it would have been like a 2014 Porsche Macan, with a chocolate brown x here and butterscotch interior and I still dream about that car. But I also knew that I was going to be at the airport, the majority of the time, the x five, when I own that thing, it spent 70% of the time up at Logan Airport in Boston. And I thought I can't spend this much on the Porsche Macan, and have a seat at the airport. So my mom could get in and out of the Buick Encore, so much easier than really almost any other car that I had had as a test vehicle. So that's what kind of led me and I got a brown one with chocolate with a butterscotch interior. So that's what kind of led me to the encore. It's a good little car. It's very quiet. It's I mean, she's just a great little car for something that is relatively inexpensive. And obviously I don't drive it very much. But we all kind of had, you know, our reasons for having these things. But the Porsche Macan was the one that I really wanted. And so Okay, so john continues, I tend to flip in and out of cars rather quickly, my kind of guy. I've traded vehicles before their first oil change was even required. Oh, maybe not. I'm not saying this is smart. But I get bored, easy. And if you play the game, right, you don't lose your shirt too badly. Maybe we should have gone on to talk about this. I'm right around that. Right, like that's an instance and commitment

Dan Roth  1:03:33  
phobic.

Rebecca Lindland  1:03:34  
I've owned over 20 I've owned 21 different vehicles. If you count motorcycles, dirt bikes and ATVs that number jumps to 47. If I add the cars My wife has had with me then the number has sparked he was married. It's a wide range of vehicles from a cobbled together 1988 Suzuki Samurai built for off roading which you cannot kill how much fun fuel injection swap Jeep why j springs 1985 Mini Toyota mini truck axles to our current bit blah. On an my first new car a 2000 Mitsubishi Galant bought on the Oh 0000

program. What a mistake. Nice 2017 GTI stick 2018 a4 Audi a4 stick, I'm not bragging I find it comical and we'd love to share my thoughts on vehicles. If you ever do a segment like this again. Maybe thinks I'm crazy. My cousin is worse. He'd make your head spin. I look forward to you.

Dan Roth  1:04:27  
We will we will definitely do another live episode at some point and we'll we'll I will give john extra special fair warning. Maybe him and his cousin can both come on and regale us with would be

Unknown Speaker  1:04:39  
a riot.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:40  
Yeah, that would be great given the way that you know, you get that initial hit of depreciation. blog. I'd love to know how he manages to not lose your shirt too much. Getting rid of cars before their first oil change.

Dan Roth  1:04:53  
Well, I guess it depends on whether it's your first oil change with you or like first Oh,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:58  
yeah, right like yeah

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:00  
Either, man,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:01  
I mean if you're buying a used car and you know before you change the oil again, you sell it. That's one thing. But if you're buying brand new vehicles, and

Dan Roth  1:05:08  
I mean who changes oil these days?

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:10  
I think it's fair to say. We have we have questions for john Krasinski.

Dan Roth  1:05:17  
Yeah, Johnny's to come on and explain himself.

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:20  
Please do. Okay. Shall I continue? Sure. Oh, you're gonna be the reader reader if you want me to.

Dan Roth  1:05:27  
Okay. So Michael, Michael sim is next Michael

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:29  
Sim. Just start. I am enjoying the banter and camaraderie that the three of you have on the podcast. We enjoy it too.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:37  
That's why we do it.

Dan Roth  1:05:39  
Daily churches, churches, churches,

Rebecca Lindland  1:05:42  
churches. I used to listen to two of you on the auto blog podcast way back when Lieberman was an auto blogger. Having said that, I listened intently as you had your discussion about buyers or Tesla Model threes versus Nissan leafs prior to buying my now current model three SRP plus i did not consider an Eevee a viable option. But my commute change pre pandemic to a longer slog with the potential to use the carpool lane. I went and tested multiple EBS long story short, I would have bought a Jaguar I pace was a lovely top of the line, non leather interior but $90,000 even with rebates and discounts. The 75 was outside my price range. At the sub 40 range, sub 40,000 range, I had a choice between the model three Nissan LEAF Chevy Bolt and the Hyundai Group products. As an enthusiast I was switching from having a manual transmission or my daily driver to almost 20 years for almost 20 years. So I needed something with driving panache. If the bolt had an interior that did not look like styrofoam urn, sir. Thank you very much, Michael, I would have chosen it. Having owned the Tesla for over a year. Now I can say that I'm not impressed with the overall product, but accepted as an excellent commuter car with excellent though num handling capabilities. I enjoy plugging in at home. But think Tesla has ridiculously poor build quality and atrocious customer support. I would not buy another Tesla product at this point. Nor another Evie, that's interesting too, because we do see that quite a bit. Barring yet another change in my commute pattern. I am thinking of an Alfa Romeo Giulia or Genesis g 70, though that gV 70 looks absolutely gorgeous in and out for my next car. I just wanted to give you another perspective of a Tesla owner who enjoys using the car for a purpose, but does not necessarily subscribe to the fandom of some others for the brand, or its gregarious CEO. Thanks and keep up the great work on the podcast. Michael, I think we all agree with you.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:36  
Yeah. I do totally agree. You know, and I think, you know, by the time he's ready to get rid of the model three, this this year, in particular 2021 2022, we're going to see a flood of new electric vehicles coming to market in a variety of different form factors and price points. And I think there's going to be a lot more choices. Now. While I would never want to talk anyone out of getting a Julia.

Dan Roth  1:08:07  
Julia does a good job on its own.

Unknown Speaker  1:08:09  
Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  1:08:10  
gosh.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:11  
You know, I think that you definitely might want to reconsider that, that strategy of not getting another Eevee you know, certainly as we've talked about the Mach-E, but you know, there's there's a whole bunch of other products, you know, the VW ID for new Hyundai and Kia. Evie is coming this year, and you know, stuff from Mercedes and BMW and many other manufacturers. So Not to mention, forget GM, of course, with with their, their slate of EDS coming. But, you know, to the point about, you know, the issues he's had with the Tesla. Yeah, I think that this is something that, you know, anybody looking at Tesla is going to have to seriously think about, you know, going forward, you know, this is going to be a real challenge for Tesla, you know, the, the quality issues that they've had, you know, they they picked up a lot of new customers over the last three years since they launched the model three, and now the model y. And if they can't properly support those customers, and, you know, both with good initial build quality and, and after purchase customer support, which is a real complaint that I hear from a lot of Tesla owners, this is something that they're gonna have to deal with, you know, or they're gonna start losing more market share to a lot of these newcomers, both from traditional automakers as well as from new entrants into the Evie field, you know, non non traditional automakers.

Rebecca Lindland  1:09:42  
Well, that's the thing. That's what's so interesting is that Tesla has had this basically to themselves to, you know, really inexcusable shame of the legacy manufacturers because they had opportunities that wasn't, you know, Tesla just did it right. Relatively speaking, you know that it was the right image wanting to support, you know, a brand that that does drive the future, you know, as I talked about earlier, so I think that you know, but but the difference now, as you said, Sam is that other companies are starting to come up now. And you don't have to buy from the legacy companies you can buy rivian is coming out with something Fisker is coming out with something, lucid air, the lucid air, if you've got $170,000 laying around, you know, there, there's opportunity, we're going to start to see small and large companies producing really good, interesting vehicles, with good range, good build quality, I, you know, good styling, and and the competition for Tesla is going to be fierce. And, you know, and a lot of the flaws that people have been willing to put up with are going to be more than exposed, and people have choices now.

Dan Roth  1:11:01  
Well, yeah. And that was an interesting thing that Michael pointed out was that he wouldn't consider any Evie. And I wonder if that's just because now with his driving pattern, he doesn't feel it's necessary. Or if the experience with Tesla has put him off, to say, you know, this products just not good enough. Because that one's our experience with one particular brands really, can have that chilling effect on the entire segment. And as you look around right now, there's not a ton of choices quite yet, compared to what we're going to see, like Sam saying, you know, by the end of this year, or into next year, so maybe his opinion will change when there's more choice in the market, because that is one thing that Tesla has sort of in its favor. There's not a whole lot that's like those cars yet. Rocky's getting there, but there's either more high end or the the bolt leaf stuff. That's just, I can see why as an enthusiast, you wouldn't want them. Well, and

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:09  
that the styrofoam comment I am here for that.

Dan Roth  1:12:13  
objector. I thought it was I thought I thought the boat was well done. But

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:18  
yeah. And then when he has, you know, that they're they're about to launch a refreshed version of the boat that has a much nicer interior. You know, you and I saw Rebecca last last year, last March. Yes. In Detroit. You know, it's, you know, it's still, you know, the same form factor, you know, small, compact hatchback. But it does have a much better interior materials than the current bolt. And the Evie. Similarly, we'll have that as well.

Rebecca Lindland  1:12:44  
Yeah, I think she has really done a good job of upping their interior game, as you know, as Dan talked about in the Cadillac. And I think that some of that has certainly moved down to their Eevee. So we'll see better things coming from them. But I agree, Michael, I would not discount getting any Eevee I think that you should look and see what's coming up, because there's some really good stuff coming up. Okay, the next one. So john Bates. He says, Hey, guys, when sources talk about car prices, they always talk about averages for a given period. Is there a source that gives the median price of the cars sold during a given period of time? To me that median would be more interesting, since high price cars can affect the average more than the median? A second question, I have concerns how much tax credits on electric and hybrid cars help lower income people buy them? I'm not a tax expert. But if I'm correct, the lower your income, the less likely that a tax credit would do you any good buying a car? Do any of you know if I'm right.

Dan Roth  1:13:36  
I think he's right.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:13:37  
Yeah, no, absolutely. Right. I'll, I'll address the second question. And, Rebecca, you may have some thoughts on the first question. But, you know, the, the reality is that lower income people don't buy new vehicles anyway. They buy used used cars. You know, in the US, we sell, I have about three and a half times the number of used cars sold every year, it was we do new cars. And so the reality is these tax credits really only affect, you know, middle to upper income consumers, because they're the ones buying new cars. If you're, you know, earning minimum wage, or you know, even you know, up to, you know, 15 $20 an hour, the chances of you buying a new car are almost zero. And because you just you simply can't afford it, it's you know, it's too expensive, even for the most affordable cars, I mean, the most affordable vehicle new vehicles on the market today, you know, our you know, things like the the Hyundai venue and you know, some of these other small crossovers and even small cars, you're looking at a minimum of 17 to $18,000. So these cars, and somebody you know, in the lower income brackets, it's just it's out of the reach simply out of the reach. So, this is one of the challenges with with buying EDS And hybrid Now, on the plus side for those customers, because of those tax credits, you know, or at least in part because of those tax credits, one of the things that we've seen for especially for EBS is the depreciation on those cars tends to be much higher, because what what is often happening is the tax credit is being factored into the resale value of the car. So, rather than looking at the sticker price, like you know, say, you know, a bolt, you know, $37,000, sticker price, you know, but at least before it ran out of tax credits, you know, they would, they would figure out the resale value based on the $30,000 after credit price, you know, and then, you know, so the, the depreciation appears a lot higher. Plus, you know, there were concerns about batteries. So you can actually get some really, really good deals on used TVs, especially at the lower end of the market. Old, older Nissan leafs, Viet 500, ease, you know, Chevy volts, bolts, you know, there's some screaming deals on those. And that's where it starts to get interesting for those, for those used car buyers in the lower income segments, because depending on I mean, granted, many of those cars, you know, are shorter range, you know, sub 100 mile range, like the first generation leaf and the 500. d. But, you know, if you can get one of those for, you know, nine to $10,000. And you don't need a car that goes more than, you know, 80 to 90 miles on a charge. That's, that can actually be a really great option for those customers, assuming, of course, that they have someplace convenient to charge.

Dan Roth  1:16:44  
Yeah, yes. All right.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:48  
Do you have some thoughts, Rebecca, on the, you know, the median pricing, given that used to work for KBB?

Dan Roth  1:16:53  
Well, yeah. How about we explain median versus mean to right, because that's what he's saying. Like, the average is the mean, right there, which is you add up all the prices and then divide by the amount of prices, you buy the number of units? Right. And that that does skew you. Because, you know, the higher priced cars, mess with the the overall price, the average price versus median, which is the actual middle? Right?

Rebecca Lindland  1:17:20  
Right? How many cars sold above? How many cars sold below that the same number of cars above the number of cars below? You know, I did a quick search. I couldn't find anything. I think he's right, I think it's really hard to find, because a lot, you know, that it's, everything is kind of Ag made into an average, you know, by zip code. And, you know, you can get very geo specific,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:46  
but I didn't, I've never seen a good point, anywhere that said, If you really want the data, it is available, you just have to pay for it. Exactly. Yeah. And he's like JD Power and Kelley Blue Book, and others have that data.

Rebecca Lindland  1:18:03  
Right. It is there. It's just not made made available to the public. Yes. Well, I

Dan Roth  1:18:08  
think that that's, I love that he's being a careful consumer and of information. And he's actually looking at what is this information that they're actually giving me Is this a median is the average? Because that's, that's really important. It is being sort of literate about, especially about statistics. I, I like to see that.

Rebecca Lindland  1:18:29  
Yeah. And one thing I have to say on on the tax credit, part of it, I there has been discussion amongst the academics that advise people like nitsa, and the EPA in such a way to reduce some of the tax credits and how they're implemented. And I hope that that some of the recommendations that we talked about years ago on the barrier, so electric vehicle deployment, for the National Academies of sciences that I was on, that they come to fruition, because it's things like immediate, not a tax credit, but an immediate 70 $500 rebate, rebate, right? And because and also, then of course, on leasing, you don't get the money, you're not getting the tax credit. So there's opportunity, there's plenty of opportunities for improvements in how we implement some of the some of those kinds of government programs. So hopefully, we'll start to see some changes there as well.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:33  
And and I suspect that we will, you know, in the coming months

Unknown Speaker  1:19:38  
with the new administration,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:40  
yeah, this is, you know, this is now become a very important topic under the current administration. And so I think we will see changes both expansions and changes in how these incentive programs work.

Rebecca Lindland  1:19:54  
Yes, yeah. And and I think that we can make some improvements for sure. And in short order to hopefully Okay, so next one. So Ben chambers. So Ben was actually I joined us on the live show. And he says, I just want to thank you for the chance to be on the live show. It was great fun. Of course, I thought of a dozen things I should have said after it was over. I have a 15 year old daughter who's learning to drive, we are thinking about what kind of vehicle would be best for her when she gets her license and are seriously considering an electric car. We don't make this stuff up people like these are just questions that actually came in. Just very time. I think

Dan Roth  1:20:27  
it was Ben, though, Ben, you could probably give Ben the credit for reminding us to talk about which car we're, we're expounding upon?

Rebecca Lindland  1:20:36  
Yes, I do believe. Yes. So thank you, Ben. So he's continues for his 15 year old daughter. He says we are thinking about what kind of car and he says 2017 Chevy bolts with less than 30,000 1000 miles can be had for less than 15,000. To what Sam just talked about? And this seems like a good deal. What are your thoughts on electric as a first car, or commute to school would be about two miles? So it seems ideal? Am I looking over something that would make this a bad idea for a new driver? I look forward to the show each week and appreciate the knowledge and perspective on the auto industry?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:13  
I I think it's a great idea.

Dan Roth  1:21:16  
Yeah, I think one of the things that I recall from being a new driver was the idea of range on the tank of fuel. Yes. So and the range can get you in trouble when you wind up in places where you were not supposed to be going. And, and the

thing, I can't charge over that. But also like, I mean, for people who actually trust the children, I it's a two mile commute, I it's a great option, because no gas car is going to warm up in that time, you're going to use a lot of fuel, you're gonna go through exhausts, and it's just generally not great for, you know, the environment, so and you want to put the youngest driver in the newest car, because of the safety features. So if that's newer than anything else in your fleet, it's gonna have you know, better crash performance, and airbags and all of that stuff that's more modern than even something that's five or six years old. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:16  
those are two points that would put it in a plus column for me. And to the geo fencing point, you know, you might, as much as I love the bolt, you might even want to consider, you know, one of the shorter range TVs, like the leaf or the 500 e, you know, particularly a 500 e because, you know, it's so small, you know, less less likelihood of her carrying around a bunch of her friends, which is, you know, for for teenage drivers,

Rebecca Lindland  1:22:42  
or sex dads right now. All right.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:45  
We are where we are. You know, this this, again, you know, for young drivers, this is one of the risk factors, you know, when you know, they're there, they become the chauffeur for their friends. You know, and, again, you know, one of these shorter range TVs, cheaper, you're gonna get them even sub $10,000 pretty easily. And it further limits the the perimeter of where they're going to be driving.

Rebecca Lindland  1:23:13  
I mean, I, I think, unless he's trimming in case you can't hear. I think it's a good idea. I liked it, especially, you know, the two mile the fact that she's got a really short drive to school. I think there's opportunity, you know, this is these people are his daughter's age are the ones that are going to be driving Evie, you know, primarily AI in the future. I think he lives in Arizona.

I think somebody else was on Arizona. So I think, you know, it's certainly a Georgia. Georgia, Georgia. That's right. He's outside of the cap plant. Yep. So I think that there's a good level of responsibility that comes with owning a vehicle, you know, whether you're putting gas in, or Evie, obviously, you know, depending upon her opportunities for charging, I would certainly look at that before I would make a full commitment. Is it you know, is she going to be able to charge in a in a relatively short and safe place for a young woman? I so I think that there's I like the idea from a commuting standpoint, I but I would also just want to make sure that the charging infrastructure is something that she's not going to get stuck on the side of the road. And that, you know, she can charge relatively easily. So, which is interesting also brings up another point of like, Are there any charging stations for students at schools?

Unknown Speaker  1:24:55  
Yeah,

Dan Roth  1:24:56  
there are maybe maybe not, I mean, if it's a two mile commute, that's not that's less than Have a big deal if it's just a couple miles back and forth, but if it's more Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:03  
yeah, but if she can top up, you know, every Friday or something, you know, he

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:10  
get in at home, you know, and well, that's, to your point about, you know, especially for a young woman not wanting to be stranded somewhere, that actually, you know, despite my earlier comments about geographically limiting where, where your kids can go, you know, the bolt might actually be a better choice, there's less risk of that, you know, and if you get her into the habit of every night, when she comes home, plug it in, so it's always topped up. You know, and then, you know, with a 200 plus mile range, you know, there's there's relatively little risk that she's going to be stranded somewhere. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  1:25:44  
I agree. So I wouldn't rule it out. I just think that we that, you know, looking at charging opportunities, do they have a charger at home? What are those? What is her charging situation and with with any Eevee but I think even more so with a new young driver. And and, and to your point of, you know, put put the newest driver in the newest car, I think is absolutely right, for safety reasons.

Dan Roth  1:26:08  
Yeah. So all the dead stuff aside, I think it's a great option. And, you know, it gives you something that's gonna it's not like a small underpowered car, either. Eevee is a pretty responsive, so you've got enough for most maneuvers,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:26:23  
especially the bolt, I mean, it's 200 horsepower, let's say for the most cars,

Dan Roth  1:26:27  
I think it's I think it's a good idea. And, you know, I'm looking, always looking at Eevee options anyway, I think that more and more is and what does she want to drive to? That's, that's the other thing that I was thinking is like, what what's what's on her list of concerns? I will tell you that my 15 year old is very conscious about what what kind of Earth were leaving her. So so are my kids. Yeah,

Rebecca Lindland  1:26:52  
I think that's a that's a very much of an enduring value when it comes to younger people that they are very globally, globally and locally aware of the environment. So yeah, I think that this, as you say, could really play very nicely into what some of her values are as well.

Dan Roth  1:27:12  
Yeah. So Ben, let us know how it works out. Yes, please, please send pictures.

Unknown Speaker  1:27:15  
I'm

Rebecca Lindland  1:27:17  
Adam jenko anko.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:21  
jackal Winkle, I think Jacqueline

Rebecca Lindland  1:27:23  
co I knew I wasn't quite saying that Jacqueline co question. Why have so few automakers implemented any kind of useful built in dash cam functionality into their vehicles? For all of Tesla's pros and cons their century mode is objectively pretty great. Most cars have at least two cameras in them many have for including my Chevy Bolt. I know BMW, Cadillac and Subaru all have cameras that can record. But at best, you can get a tiny clip that only records when you crash. And it's difficult to obtain that footage. And I never see these even advertises features from the automakers that have to do them that have that do you have them? Seems like they could be doing so much more in this space. I don't know about you. But I've definitely had my fair share of experiences on the road. And when parked that came short of a full on crash that I wish I had a record of, I would gladly pay essentially like option in my next car if anyone would just offer it. Yes, I realized I write in whenever I have a random thought. So if you ever use my questions or comments on the show, feel free to just say a Patreon supporter instead of my name. If you get sick of

Dan Roth  1:28:25  
saying.

Rebecca Lindland  1:28:29  
Paul, I apologize for mispronouncing Adam

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:31  
always we appreciate your support.

Unknown Speaker  1:28:33  
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:34  
So yeah, a couple things here. First of all, the sentry mode, while you know, a very cool feature that Tesla offers, you know, taking advantage of those cameras. It does have some issues. And what

Rebecca Lindland  1:28:47  
is Sentry mode Exactly. Again,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:48  
so, you know, the Tesla's have eight cameras around their perimeter that they use for autopilot. And what you can do when you enable Sentry mode, it uses those cameras to record when anything happens. So it keeps the computer on and keeps the cameras running, you know, just keeping a running buffer and then you know, fit the texts, you know, somebody hitting your car or potential scratching it or doing some vandalism, whatever. You know, it will save that save that recording and save

Rebecca Lindland  1:29:18  
the person that like pulled out right in front of me the other day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:21  
So there, there is an issue and you know, our friend Alex, who was on the show last week, he has a model three and he told me about this a couple years ago when he first got it turns out that if you leave Sentry mode if you turn on Sentry mode when especially when your car's parked. I mean when it's running it doesn't matter so much because the cameras are on anyway. But when when the cars parked normally without Sentry mode, Tesla will lose you know, it'll drain about one mile a day of range while it's parked. You know, it's that's the way it is you know, batteries do that and and there's always some some stuff that running with Sentry mode that climbs to about 10 miles a day. Oh, my goodness. So it's using quite a bit of power for that. Yeah. Also, you know, to do a dash cam system, you've got to have some storage somewhere. And that's expensive, you know, that adds cost, you know, and, I guess, manufacturers, you know, unless they think that that's a feature that customers are going to be willing to pay extra for, you know, they may not be willing to

Rebecca Lindland  1:30:28  
what kind of storage? Ram storage, flash? flash memory? flash? Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:32  
Yeah. And as we talked about, you know, with the Tesla recall, you know, that can also be problematic. You know, if you're, depending on the type of quality of the flash you're using, you know, that can basically get worn out. And I suspect that there are also some liability concerns, you know, manufacturers, maybe don't watch it, I was thinking don't want to stick their stick themselves in the middle of this, you know, and perhaps, you know, get, you know, sued for something, maybe not recording when it should have, you know, it's just, it's just one of those things that they, you know, maybe the lawyer said, yes, maybe not such a great idea. So, that's, I think those are probably some of the main reasons why going forward, I think we probably will see implemented more, you know, with, as, you know, cameras, you know, become, are becoming ubiquitous. And, you know, we're moving to an era where cars are being equipped with more data storage capability, you know, to support over the air updates, and all the other things that are going in there. You know, they may do that, but, you know, they've, they've got to figure out the power consumption issue first, you know, especially when the cars parked.

Dan Roth  1:31:50  
Yeah, and I think that viability thing was was my first thought and partially is because I work for lawyers. Like they don't, they don't necessarily want to own that. Like, like, either, we don't want to provide the cloud storage for it. We like, it's, it's bad enough when cars get into crashes. And there's the whole issue about event data, recording info, and who owns it and where it comes from and where it's stored. You start to add all kinds of video footage to that it gets it can get a little bit more complicated. And then there's the idea of what if that information gets accessed by people who don't want to have privacy security stuff, so it's just easier to just if you want the camera go by one, you know, the cheap and then it just records on an SD card and you can do whatever you want with it. Maybe in another country, not the US we're lawsuits fly like candy.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:32:52  
You got you gotta leave something to the aftermarket.

Rebecca Lindland  1:32:55  
Yeah, exactly. Okay, so the next question. A Patreon supporter, says an anonymous Patreon supporter, coincidentally named Adam would love to hear your thoughts on the recent Ford Google partnership they just announced starting in 2023. I thought about this because cars are becoming more and more like computers on wheels these days. And it's increasingly a factor one must consider when buying a car. Ford is just now debuting the electric Mach-E that runs on their latest sync four OS they've been touting as having great new features and otaa Software Update over the air software update compatibility, just like our computers and smartphones, that sets expectations, especially for tech savvy buyers like myself, that the software in the car will not be static and will continue to get updates throughout the life of the vehicle. I give credit to Tesla for really pirating pioneering this idea.

Dan Roth  1:33:46  
Hang on, has did not pioneer a software updates for the vehicles, maybe over the air. But like that's been going on for a long time.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:33:55  
Actually, even you know, what Tesla pioneered was the idea of over the air updates for security completely

Dan Roth  1:34:02  
out the window.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:34:02  
Yeah, I mean, other other manufacturers have actually been doing OTA updates longer, you know, going back to the mid 2000s, but only for the telematics system only

Dan Roth  1:34:13  
needs to be able to do that was one of the questions we asked them a long time ago was what they could do with OnStar. And they could they said, you know, we could do anything we want, but we wall it off because of the safety and liability and security of Tesla. Tesla doesn't care as much about when they're making the users

Rebecca Lindland  1:34:29  
loves their owners. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:34:34  
And other manufacturers have been doing OTA updates for the communication system for the telematics, going back to the mid 2000s. So that that is there. They just haven't been doing it for safety critical systems.

Dan Roth  1:34:47  
Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you. I'm sorry. I just did.

Rebecca Lindland  1:34:51  
I'm good. So he says present s slash slash x. I don't recall excluded here. He He goes on. So while I don't have any concerns about the maintaining the existing infotainment system, it brings up questions about them continuing development to provide new features, upgrades and improvements after they've moved on to focus on the new Android platform. Where will that lead buyers of brand new 2021 models in a couple of years, I'm considering a marquee. And I know Rebecca seemed to really enjoy her testing of it as well. So as someone in the market for a new premium vehicle, I never thought I'd have to add to my test drive checklist, an item called what OS is this car running? And will it keep future software improvements? If you're in the market for a new Ford right now? That's a really big question, considering it's possible that their new 2020 model might only get new feature love for a couple of years, or it really isn't communicating at this point, in spite of my vocal concern, new Mach-E owners, in spite of many vocal concerns, new Mach-E owners, in my mind, that's a pretty big problem that I think for needs to address for buyers are 2021, and even 22 models. And something car manufacturers in general, really need to consider as more and more core functionality of vehicles gets tied to the infotainment system.

Dan Roth  1:36:05  
Well, if you're a car maker, and you give away your game like that, and you say we're gonna, we're plans to support this hardware for the next seven years, all of a sudden, your competitors can provide eight, nine or 10. So that's a really crappy way to, you know, sort of show your entire playbook. That said, I think you're probably not going to have a problem buying a Mk II having it supported for 10 years. I don't I don't think that's an issue the Android stuff, again, like they have to support their users for as long as is practical for them. And that is a stretch of more than five years. At a certain point, they'll just dead end it. And you got what you got. Same as a laptop, same. Yes,

Rebecca Lindland  1:36:49  
exactly. I mean, this is not this problem is not unique to automotive. Yeah, it is in that, you know, people expect their cars to last 13 years and longer. Yeah. And I don't think so that, you know, I would like clarification on when we talk about this for Google partnership and Android that we're not talking about Android Auto, it's Android automotive, like this software and such.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:37:11  
Yeah, so it

Dan Roth  1:37:12  
hasn't even rolled out yet. Right. Like that's, that's been announced. But it's not right. So there's, there's,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:37:17  
there's two parts to this announcement with for the Ford and Google relationship. One part is that Ford has selected Google Cloud Platform as their preferred cloud provider for the company, or you know, all kinds of services and, you know, things that they do a lot of backend stuff like their supply chain management, and manufacturing and product development, but also to, you know, underpin a lot of the services that are going to provide the custom consumers. So there's, there's that, that that is actually starting right now, that's starting this year. So they're, they're moving a lot of their stuff. You know, they and they, you know, Ford, like,

Rebecca Lindland  1:37:55  
I'm sorry, yeah, well, the end consumers see that,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:37:58  
no, that's, that's not something that will be visible to any consumers, or to any users, even inside the company. You know, it's just, that's the platform that this stuff is running on. Every big company is using cloud platforms now for all kinds of stuff, you know, for already, you know, use stuff with Microsoft Azure, and Amazon Web Services, as does every other manufacturer. So that's, that's the one piece, the other part of it the infotainment side, as you said, Rebecca, there, they're going to switch to Android automotive. So this is, you know, when you look at your infotainment system, you know, there's very simplified, you know, two main parts of it, there's the underlying operating system. And there's the application layer, what you see is the application layer, the underlying operating system today, it's Q and X, before they launched sync three and 2016. It was Windows Embedded, you know, so they've, they've switched OS is before the and in 20, starting in 2023. They're going to switch from Q and x, which is made by blackberry to Android automotive. On top of that, there's still going to be a Ford application layer, the interface that you actually see is going to be different. And there's already cars on the road today that are running Android automotive. Volvo and Pollstar are using it for for their new systems. Later this year, GM will be launching their first Android automotive based systems. I think the new Evie are all going to be running Android automotive. The Chrysler Pacifica, the refresh 2021 Chrysler Pacifica Uconnect, five is running Android automotive. All of these have a distinct look and feel. They're all running Android underneath. But they're going to have different user interfaces on top that are unique to the manufacturer. And it's entirely possible that when you look at a 2023 Mach-E that may or may not have Android automotive at that point. They haven't said what the cadence is for which models are going to get it which years may look exactly the same as the current one, running qx with the same interface on top of some other operating system. So there's, there's that piece of it, and then the, you know, how long this stuff gets supported? That's, that's a big question that is a big unknown. Right now, you know, one of the problems with making this transition to having over the air updates, and its promise of improving functionality over time, it actually cost a lot of money to develop that software, and to validate it and to distribute it. And you know, that stuff doesn't come free, what we're gonna see going forward is, you're going to get, you know, a period of time, probably three years on most vehicles, where you'll get those updates for free. After that, you're going to have to pay for a subscription for something to continue getting those updates. Otherwise, you know, it's going to be like your phone, you know, you can still use a five year old phone today, but it's not getting any software updates. At some point, unless you're paying for it, those updates are probably going to stop. Some things will probably keep coming like, you know, for example, you may not get new features, after three years, but you will get security updates, you know, or you know, critical bug fixes will get fixed, but you you'll just stop getting new features. So you'll get different updates over time, depending on on what you're willing to pay for. And this is something that we're, you know, we're all demanding these LTA updates, manufacturers saying, Okay, you got it, here's a new revenue stream for us. And so you're gonna, you're gonna start paying for this stuff at some point.

Dan Roth  1:41:52  
Well, yeah, I mean, it goes back to the days of when I was putting my first shitbox Volvo's together from, you know, junkyard cars, the options that people paid for once we're in other cars, so I would pay for them again, to take those pieces, and then put them in my car, this is a much cleaner way to do it, on the used car side of things. And I think that you got to take the good with the Not, not so good, right? Like, there, there needs to be certainly a way for the car to operate safely without any updates ever. And I'm really hoping that they figured that out. So that the thing doesn't become a brick after five years. But also for those those buyers who can afford to continue the subscription. And there needs to be multiple tiers of subscription, enter will be. So you can get those supports. Like I know it's another subscription service to buy. And so that that really that's why I say like it needs to work without it. Because not everybody has the income for yet another thing to subscribe to, but the choice should and will be there. So it's a brave new world, everyone. Let's see how it works out.

Rebecca Lindland  1:43:05  
So that's the end of our listener questions. We're all caught up.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:43:08  
All right.

Dan Roth  1:43:12  
I think at this point, because we've done almost two hours, I will release the the Peter Egan episode as a standalone, just because this is already packed with peanuts satisfies. But we'll see everybody again, for the next wheel bearings podcast soon. In the meantime, you can leave us reviews, I was reading through some of the reviews, podcasts. So we appreciate that feedback. That's a great tool for discoverability. And we want people to discover the show so that we can continue to

Unknown Speaker  1:43:49  
make more of them.

Dan Roth  1:43:51  
You all enjoy and watch it does. It does help the growing the listener base and the sort of feedback really helps us fine tune the kind of stuff that you'd like so keep letting us know. Keep telling everyone and we'll see everybody next time. Bye, everyone.

Thanks for listening to wheel bearings. Hey, we love to listen to our listeners to drop us an email to feedback at wheel bearings dot media with your thoughts. Questions are conversation starters. That's feedback at wheel bearings dot media. You can also find us on Twitter at wheel bearings cast. Don't use any vowels except for the A in cast. So that's why LBRNG s cast. Thanks again. We hope to hear from you soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai