Sam Abuelsamid  0:00  
Coming up on episode 204 of wheel bearings we talk about the Volkswagen ID for first edition, the 2022 Volkswagen Taos, the 2022 Honda Civic Sedan. And in the news, we'd cover the Peugeot 9x eight lemon hypercar remarks taking over control of Bugatti. Still Lance's Evie day. A little more discussion about BMW is new e V's the I four and the AI x. And we answer some listener questions all coming up next. Did you know you can support wheel bearings directly? Head to patreon.com slash wheel bearings, media and you can become a patron today. Your contributions will help fund the platforms and tools we use to bring the podcast to you. And exclusives improvements are already on the way thanks to your generosity. So if you want to be part of an automotive podcast, like no other head to patreon.com, slash wheel bearings, media

This is Episode 204. wheel bearings. I'm Samuel savage from guidehouse insights.

Nicole Wakelin  1:06  
I am Nicole wakelin. And this week we'll go with Kelley Blue Book.

Roberto Baldwin  1:10  
I am Roberto Baldwin, and let's say gadget. Right.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17  
So what, let's start with you, Robbie, what have you been driving this week?

Roberto Baldwin  1:22  
So this is actually in drive us this week. I drove us a few weeks ago and I haven't talked about it. I haven't had a chance to put my video up. But the the new Volkswagen touts the 2022 Volkswagen it is their entry level vehicle it essentially I guess it's sort of replaces the golf TSI. You know, you can only get the GTI and the Type R Gulf here in the United States anymore. So I drove this on a drive program a few weeks ago. And I will it what's what's nice about this vehicle is it It starts out at about 2320 well with destination etc etc $24,000 for a nice Volkswagen subcompact our compact and compact SUV. And so it's an entry level vehicle, which I don't think there are enough of right now out in the world. And entry level vehicles are like first cars like this. They're they're hugely important, I think for a lot of people. Because if you're young, and this is your first new car, like this is the car you might have the longest out of all your cars. My first car. Well my second car was the longest I had, which was my first car was a 69 Datsun 2000 roadster. And then I bought a 90 Honda Civic because I wanted to actually be able to get to my destinations. 10 miles from my house. The roadster was great, but I wanted to go places. But I had that Honda for 15 years, I had other cars and I kept that Honda, because it was my first entry level car and you make so many memories in these vehicles. These are sort of like you live and you work and you do schoolwork in these things. And it's it's it's sort of insane how expensive cars have gotten that we don't have more sort of inexpensive good cars. And I feel like the Volkswagen house is an inexpensive good car. I drove it or Ain't I only drove for the day. But yeah, it was it was comfortable. He could you know, you can do it for long drives, you can you know, it has enough space for you and your friends, you can throw your stuff in the back and whether you're, you know, this is your first new car, or you need a second car, or you're buying a car for your kid a lot of people want to buy a car for their, their kid going off to college, or maybe they're in high school. And as you know, cars get more and more safe. They get safer as time progresses, they feel a little iffy about buying a used car. I mean the house, it's a it's a great entry level little vehicle and I really enjoyed it. And I like I do wish there were more options for folks out there who need something that doesn't cost the median price of what is it now. $40,000 it was 35 and now it's going up.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:06  
It's about 40 Yeah, and and actually last week, when they automakers released their their June sales reports and Ford's sales report, they actually touted the fact that in June, their average transaction price was over $47,000 Wow. And part of that is because they you know part of that's because they've discontinued all their affordable cars.

Nicole Wakelin  4:31  
They got rid of everything that a kid would buy like all the kit all the all that yeah, that just graduated college cars.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:40  
Yeah, the cheapest thing they have right now is the escape, you know, which starts around 24 $25,000 and goes up from there until the the maverick shows up later this fall. You know, that's gonna start at 20 grand, you know, they're gonna have these elevated prices because there's just nothing affordable from for

Roberto Baldwin  5:01  
Yeah, yeah, I think there's there is this this sort of this dead zone right now. And, and, and in the entry level world, wherever, you know, you have very few options and there's a ton of like, you know, 30s, you know, and up vehicles, and that's why the median price is sort of gone crazy high, but you know, a lot of people are still trying to find work after, you know, post COVID. You know, and not everyone can afford, I mean, I, it's hard for me to wrap my head around buying something that's going to be $35,000. And I make, you know, my wife and I do pretty well we do live in the Bay Area. So you have to like sort of like, you know, adjust your

Sam Abuelsamid  5:39  
like, so after your after your housing costs go after basically living in poverty. Yeah,

Roberto Baldwin  5:43  
after, like, we lived anywhere else in the United States we'd be we'd be like, you know, doing great, but we live in the Bay Area. So you know, the cost of living is higher, but we get paid, you know, Bay Area money. So you kind of Eve it's sort of evens out almost sort of kind of maybe. But yeah, it's it's really difficult to this for I think, for a lot of people to look and say, Okay, I want to get a new car, and then you know, then they get sucked into these five year lease, you know, five year, you know, payment plans, which is, you know, gosh, that's, that's insane. Unless you can get it like zero API, and even then, you're fighting against the, you know, the depreciation, you're like, Well, I hope that like what I'm paying, like, doesn't, and I'm not underwater on a car, which is sort of crazy.

Sam Abuelsamid  6:25  
But, yeah, well, I mean, especially, you know, something happens to it, you know, if you get in a crash, or it gets stolen or something, you know, and suddenly, you know, you find that you owe more on the car than it's worth. And you know, the insurance company is only going to give you what its market value is. Although right now, probably okay, because the market value of used cars has gone up so much for for the time for right now, for a little while, at least,

Roberto Baldwin  6:49  
for right now, unless you own a 2004 Jaguar x type, I looked at carvana price, because someone had talked to me about their carvanha was given them like a couple, like more money than they anticipated. So I threw the car, our Jaguar x type our free car on carvanha. And they offered me 200. And I think $70 if you're looking for a cheap car, that Jaguar x type 2004 Well, just the Jaguar x type is, is out there, if you can find one, and you don't mind all the all the check engine lights being on, you know, all the time,

Nicole Wakelin  7:24  
we just got a better offer on the car we just traded. Now, that was probably about $4,000 more than what we had gotten were offered for it. Three, four years ago and three, four years ago, way less mileage and way less things that were wrong with it. I'm like, I don't know, I don't know how this exactly worked. But okay, sure.

Roberto Baldwin  7:45  
Yeah, no, it's it's, I'm sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:49  
I was gonna say late last night, I was I was talking to my friend that I bought my Miata from four years ago. And he said, Whatever you do, don't sell that car, because he's been looking for another one to buy. And you he couldn't I think the cheapest one that he's found, you know, that's relatively low mileage. Or, you know, first or second generation Miata is like 12, or $13,000, which is substantially more than I paid him for that 1994 years ago. So. So I got a question for you. And we Yeah, we've had, you know, over the last year, a couple of years, we've had several of these entry level crossovers come into the marketplace, the Nissan Kicks the Hyundai venue, and there's a couple others up there. You know, and they typically start, you know, around 19 $20,000. I think that kicks still starts at about 19. is, you know, this 124 with delivery. Is that, you know, is it like three $4,000 more, do you think it's worth that much more than those vehicles.

Roberto Baldwin  8:57  
I like the kicks a lot. And I like to venue, I think that Nissan Kicks is probably the best car that needs on mybuilding right now. Even even with the before the refresh where the door panel inside, which is like almost a flat piece of plastic. Like this flat like just shape there. Like we need something to cover the innards of the door shape hole for the handle. I do think it's it is. It does feel a bit more solid than the kicks and the venue. Well, it does feel more solid than the kicks the venue that might be a toss up. I'm trying to remember when I drove the venue, it's a Hyundai has been, you know, Hyundai's inexpensive vehicles are still you know, they're doing a great job. They're top notch. So I think the you know, I think if you were looking for an inexpensive car, those are the three you should, you should you should check out for, you know, because everyone wants a compact SUV. I mean, the reality is that you should look at gulfs and actual cars for me but I understand the market understand what people want And people, you know, if you're looking for an entry level car, I would I would drive all three, I think the golf premium price tag is warranted for the most part, I think it feels a bit more solid. You know, it feels a bit more like a car that's worth that extra that extra cash. But at the end of the day, that's really on the individual. And, yeah, I would try all three and see what your budget allows. If you if you are really sort of, if it's tough, it's a tough call. I don't think that I think you're gonna be fine with the kicks of the venue, I think you're gonna be happy with if that spending that extra money. If you do have the extra money, you know, the golf might, you know, stepping up to the golf might be pretty cool.

Sam Abuelsamid  10:47  
I mean, it's house.

Roberto Baldwin  10:48  
I'm sorry, the house, not the golf. Sorry. Yeah, golf on the brain.

Sam Abuelsamid  10:51  
What, what, what, how for a different comparison, what about the Mazda CX 30, which starts at 22,000? So delivery 23,000. So it's about $1,000, less base price than the Taos?

Roberto Baldwin  11:06  
I haven't driven that, do you think? But based on Mazda's, you know, track record? Oof, that's a toughy. Because I feel like that the model is probably going to be a bit more fun to drive. So I think if you're if you're a driving enthusiast, as opposed to a person who just drives to get in who just needs a car to get from point A to point B, the Mazda is probably going to be the better. The better choice. If you like a touchscreen versus that weird thing that Mazda has then.

Sam Abuelsamid  11:36  
Yeah, I mean, obviously for Nikolas the Mazda would be a nice start. Exactly. I wouldn't even be under consideration.

Roberto Baldwin  11:42  
And I think I think Mazda is like, Hey, we're not using the touchscreen is is is, in theory, a good idea. But I think at the end of the day, most people are still plugging in their phones and their phone, you know, if they're using CarPlay or Android Auto, it's kind of a pain in the ass to use those those systems without an actual touchscreen, because it's actually taking your eyes off the road more because now you're like, sort of like trying to navigate and figure out like, Where's the where's the little selector going to go next as I tried to, like, pick a song or as opposed to just like, Okay, I know, I just stab in this general direction. It's gonna be okay. I definitely do not think touchscreens are the ends all bee's knees? Because a lot of times I sort of have to put my hand on top of the screen and then tap with like my thumb if it's a brace. Yeah, yeah, it's a sort of braces. So my hand isn't bouncing all over the place and I'm hitting all the wrong buttons in order just to do something. And you know, they should be augmented with you know, next song and volume control everything else should be an actual physical button. But I'll stop on that sort of weird tirade. Yeah, if you're if you're a driver driver, if your Mazda is probably going to be the better option if you're if you're looking for something that's that's, that's a bit more you know, you you can't live without, you know, Google Maps ways. Except Apple Maps for some whatever weird reason if you can't live without those, maybe the Volkswagen will probably be a better a better match for you. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  13:14  
Alrighty. What about unikl? What have you been driving?

Nicole Wakelin  13:17  
I am driving the all new 2022 Honda Civic Sedan in the strangest color. Okay, you guys both have to look up this color because it's the weirdest color. It's called lunar silver. And it basically is like this super weird pale blue thing that everybody seen it. It's like, what's that color? Like? I don't know why it's it's not. It feels like a car color. My grandma would drive. I don't like it. But aside from the very weird color that does nothing for the car, move on to more important stuff but don't get lunar silver. It's not an attractive color. It's It's great. I mean, it's a Honda it has that quality interior. It's never overly fancy and overly done. It just has exactly what it needs to be comfortable and useful. I have the touring, which is their top trim. And it also comes with the 1.5 liter turbocharged turbo charged for the engine that's 180 horsepower and has a CVT it's more than enough to get this moving. I mean it's easy to accelerate on a highway. You never feel like it struggling to keep up and it's really quiet. I CVT is you know they still can produce a noisy right especially when you're heavy on the accelerator. This was not and it also handled really well and although it's not wintertime so you can't see what it's going to do when the snow falls. We've had some torrential rain here lately, and I made the mistake of planning to go out to dinner just as we got like hunker down tornadoes, wind, rain, floods don't go out and I'm like, Well, that doesn't help me halfway to dinner, and it was dumping and there was just water everywhere. really heavy rain buffeting the car and wind and He handled beautifully. I was actually really impressed. It was a point where I thought to myself, okay, if it was snowing, I would feel pretty confident driving this car. I felt like it handled really well. It's plenty roomy. I mean, my husband is six, three, he pushes the seat back. So normally only someone who's exceptionally small can sit behind him. But no, you can still sit behind him in this and not feel like your knees are, are you know squished up against the back of the seat that has a good sized trunk and it has good features. There's not a lot to complain about other than the color and it comes with good standard safety. You know it This one has like leather seats and a Bose audio system. It has a nine inch color touchscreen Thank you Honda that I like. So I mean, volume knob and a volume knob. Yes, it has a volume knob. So overall, I it's a good offering. I mean, this is what I think the 11th generation of the Civic Sedan so it's been around for a while and it's seen a lot of changes over the years and I feel like they continue to iterate it they they make improvements, it's nothing dramatic, it's not like you suddenly get into the Civic they go oh my gosh, holy new vehicle, I'd never know that you know, this was the Civic it's completely changed. It just moves it forward in a good and sort of predictable but a good way you know, adding a little bit of features adding a little bit of style adding a little bit of everything and it's not the pricing you were talking about pricing and cards now this this is the top civic trim that you can get and it comes in at $28,300 so you know it's not exactly affordable it's not cheap, but it's also not crazy expensive and if you wanted to forego you know leather seats and some of the fancy you can get it for a good chunk less I think the base models you'll probably save a good you know, a couple of $1,000 so depending on what you're going to buy you can get into an affordable comfortable spacious sedan that's not going to break the bank so if someone's looking for a sedan talking about first time buyers the Civic is not a bad choice

Sam Abuelsamid  17:06  
yeah I mean we we have a 2017 civics that's the previous generation and you know this one and you know looking particularly looking at the interior it does look a little more upscale than ours you know and that base price on the LX you know 21 720 to seven you know delivery you know i think is it's certainly you know it's more affordable than the house you know starting point and you know Honda I think last year the year before they made the their Honda Sensing package with all the A das stuff standard equipment so you get you know even on the bass bass you know version of the Civic you get radar adaptive cruise control Lane Keeping Assist, and you know, also blind spot monitoring. So I think that that's you know, having all that stuff on there you know, even at that base price I think is pretty good value.

Nicole Wakelin  18:04  
It does make it a value you know, having just I just got a new car and one of the things I thought I was going to pay more for my insurance our old car was a 2015 and my insurance dropped significantly and I'm like how do I insure I actually like what was it she said it's because there's so much standard safety on the car you just bought compared to the car you had it actually brought down like like 40 bucks a month that it brought down my insurance costs wasn't insignificant because I had that moment of like we were Wait What are you sure we got this right but she's like no, it's because of the safety and it's not like we were driving a car with nothing before but just that changed from what you think was available four or five years ago standard there wasn't a heck of a lot what standard now that's a big difference and it's enough to you know, save you a few bucks and help make your insurance a bit more affordable too and you don't have to pay extra to get those things you mentioned Sam it's going to be there whether you decide to go with the top trim or the very bottom you're going to get that safety

Roberto Baldwin  18:58  
the it's yeah I want to Honda Civics a 90 and a 94. And both of them were virtually not even virtually essentially bulletproof. You could do anything to those things and whenever you get into a Honda as soon as you're just closing the door you're like oh yeah this is hot inequality this is this is where you're at so I feel like that that money spent on that civic even the trim level you're probably going to be like okay, this is this is going to be this is gonna be a while around for a while and yeah the adding the the the sensing the Honda Sensing as standard I think everyone adding more and more of these things to standard is so incredibly important. I mean it's nice What do you have adaptive cruise control when you're stuck in traffic? But it's it's it's it's nicer when you have the you know, auto stopping when you're about to smash into somebody or whatnot. And that's that. I mean, those are those are huge, huge safety gains for a lot of people.

Nicole Wakelin  19:57  
Yeah, and there is what you're saying about like shutting the door. Are you like, Okay, this is a Honda, there is a solidity to this, you know, it's a small, it's a compact car. It's a sedan, it's not a huge vehicle and sometimes, like when you're talking about the kicks in the door or the inside of the kicks, you know, the door trim it had that really like, Oh, good lord, like it felt it felt. It felt its price. Let's say it felt cheap. It felt like you were trying to save money. This doesn't feel cheap. It doesn't you know, it like said 28 grand. It's not an outrageously priced vehicle, but it feels solid, it feels secure. It's got a nice, quiet ride. You don't get that sense at all that like, Okay, I'm in some kind of cheapo compact car that I'm just driving because I want great fuel economy. No, you get the sense that you bought something that's quality that's going to be around for a while we had, we've had two civics, both of them when there was a Civic Hybrid. And it was when gas prices were just outrageous. And they both were driving perfectly fine. When we decided to turn them in. It wasn't and we had two kids who beat up the car like you wouldn't believe they are hardened interiors. They drove a wheelbarrow into the outside of it at one point, but no cars like that's fine. I have a big dent on my door now. But I am ready. Like it just they just keep going in. They don't start to feel their age. Like they really hold up really well. So if you know if you want to get a car and you want to hold on to it, go get yourself a Honda, you're gonna have it until you're just sick of it.

Roberto Baldwin  21:23  
You're like, well, I want something.

Nicole Wakelin  21:25  
I just want something different. I can't drive anymore.

Sam Abuelsamid  21:29  
That's what that's what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping like, you know that my wife doesn't get sick of it for a long time. So I don't want to make any more car payments for a while. Yeah. So far, it's doing great, you know, for years for a little over four years, and it's doing great. So can't complain. And, and, you know, I actually I did my driver's ed in a Honda Civic back, you know, back in the early 80s and 81 civic, manual hatchback. was great. Nice. I love those tiny little car.

Roberto Baldwin  22:00  
Those small. I love those. I feel like I'm a Honda fanboy, even though I don't own a Honda at this point. Those old especially the old ones, they were like little weird little, little little golf carts. Like he was just like these fun little transmissions. And I would just Yeah, my dad brought my sister brother, an early 80s Honda Accord, which was just slightly bigger than the Civic and they they didn't want to work on it. They didn't want to do anything with it just needed a starter. So every once a while my dad would ask me to drive it around and start started up driving around and just keep the battery charged. And I absolutely adored that car. And my sister and brother you know you're in high school, they wanted to be cool. And it was the 90s and an early 80s Honda Civic or a Honda Accord wasn't cool. But man, I sort of I I'm sort of sad today. My dad sold that.

Nicole Wakelin  22:47  
We had it. We had it. I didn't think of it until you guys started talking. We've had two civics. We had a CRV back in the day. And we had and I know this car was like they didn't even last very long. But we had a Honda element. We loved that thing. Oh, yeah, that was brilliant when you had kids, because the doors open in such a way that you could always get to them in the back

Sam Abuelsamid  23:07  
the rear hinged half doors,

Nicole Wakelin  23:08  
oh my gosh, you could sit in the back and you could like sit there and use that space. And when kids made a mess as kids do, you're like break out the hose wish. I loved that thing. They marketed like they marketed it sort of towards like you know this is for the outdoorsy type who is going to put a bike in the back. I'm like, oh, heck no. This is for the parents who have kids who drop food and get sick and make a mess and have snow and all sorts of junk on their boots. Oh, man, I loved that car. We only traded it because the fuel economy was atrocious. And that's when we got the hybrid civic instead.

Roberto Baldwin  23:40  
Yeah, they're they're they're sort of my brother still owns one. And he is told I have made him Promise me that. If he ever sells it, I get rights of first refusal. Absolutely. And there's one on my block that like across the street and two houses down. They have an element. I'm just waiting for them to put it on sale because it's the perfect like, you can throw the like we had the dogs, I have my bands. I have like, you know, all my art projects that I'm working on. I have to go to Home Depot and get malts Of course, that my friend this her sister sold hers because it was gutless. And I'm like that's not what that's about.

Nicole Wakelin  24:16  
No, that's not what you bought the element. I wish they still had an element, I guess yeah, you

Sam Abuelsamid  24:21  
just go find a used v tech engine and drop it in. There

Nicole Wakelin  24:24  
you go.

Roberto Baldwin  24:25  
Yeah. Then those are like super cheap, at least at the time. I haven't looked. I haven't I haven't researched v tech engines in a while. But I remember you could just buy them for like a week swap them over the weekend. It was it was nuts. Crazy times.

Sam Abuelsamid  24:39  
Yeah. All right. Well, I too, had a Volkswagen crossover. Actually, I still have it because the it was supposed to this was supposed to be picked up two days ago. But the Genesis gvhd that was that they were bringing to me on Tuesday. got a flat tire on the way here and they had to take it back to the back to the shop. They've been waiting to get a new tire. And I still haven't heard back from tribe shout out when when I'm going to get it. So anyway, I've got the the Volkswagen ID four, which is the first of VW is purpose built, ie V's for the North American market. They launched the ID three, last September, I think in Europe. And then late in the year, they launched the ID four, which is basically the same vehicle but slightly taller, slightly, you know, more crossover ish looking, although had parked, I've got it parked right now next to a 2015 Kia Rio in the driveway. And it actually doesn't look much bigger than the Kia on the outside. But on the inside, it feels huge. Because you've got that flat floor, you know, it's an Eevee 511 and if I get a seat where I want and get in this behind me, you know, I have like several inches of knee clearance in the back. So I mean, there's there's a lot of room in this thing. You know, overall, it you know, it's it's really good to drive and it drives like a Volkswagen which is what you expect and even more so in most respects because the the default for VW MTB electric platform, is rear wheel drive, so rear motor, and then they're going to have dual motor, all wheel drive versions as well, but they haven't launched that yet, for the ID for this one that I've got is the first edition, which is now sold out. And it goes for 44 grand, and the main distinction between the first edition and the other ones is the the white steering wheel and instrument pod and bezel around the center. Display. But other than that, you know, it's basically the same, it's fitness, you know, fairly loaded. You know, because it's only a single motor, it's only 201 horsepower. And, you know, it's a fairly hefty vehicle actually, even with, you know, a single motor rear drive configuration, it's, it's almost 4500 pounds, which for a vehicle that's, you know, got a comparatively compact footprint seems like a lot. And compared to some other crossovers of similar size, it's quite a bit heavier. But you know, the, the torque, the instant torque of the electric motor makes up for a lot of that it doesn't, it doesn't feel nearly as quick as something like the Pollstar two, which has two motors and twice the power. But you know, it's still, it's still quite more than acceptable, you know, I've got really good drivability, the only real complaint I have about the driving dynamics is the the steering doesn't really have any feedback, it feels kind of dead, although the, the effort is fine, it just doesn't really give you any feedback when you're going around corners. But it's, you know, it's it's roomy, it's great to drive. I like the way it looks. You know, I like the the new design language that VW is applying to their TVs, with the signature lighting, they've got on the ID three and the ID four and going to be on something now the other ones they've got coming out. And I like you know, the This one is the the blue with the silver trim around the the greenhouse you know, which is I think it's it's a it's a nice two tone combination. It's got the the full glass roof, which is you know, I prefer to drive you know, sunroof open and fit if it had one, but it's, you know, it's fixed in place, but that's fine. The main, the two main complaints with this thing there's, first of all, there's no front trunk. And that's I think you can make the case for it in the case of the MDB because when you look at the proportions, it's got a very short front end they move the winch the base of the windshield forward and even though there's no engine in there, it's a fairly short front end and they pack in all the the climate control and the power electronics and other stuff in there. So there's not really room in there for storage. But you know, there is an extra like deep little storage area in the back under the rear cargo area where you can throw the the charging cable so I can get by without the the the front trunk because there's a big cargo area in the back.

The other main complaint about this thing is the infotainment system and primarily the the software performance of the infotainment system. The the user interface is fine. You know it's fairly standard modern user interface, you know grid of eight icons, and it's a good size screen to think it's a 10 inch screen. You know, so nice big touch targets fairly easy to hit. Although even you know when you're driving on bumpy roads, you know, same things you were talking about Robbie earlier you know trying to hit the touch targets trying to brace brace my hand you know to hit touch targets, but Yeah, that's Yeah, that is what it is. But the responsiveness of the system is not great. You know it, sometimes it's fine. And that's the thing is it's inconsistent. You know, sometimes it responds fine, a lot of the time, it's kind of sluggish. Sometimes it does some weird things like that, there's no volume knob, there's is capacitive control through the beginning of the climate control, and the volume and the dash, adjust the temperatures, and the the volume control is centered, just centered just below the screen. And basically two areas where you tap one on the right to raise the volume on the left to lower the volume, every once in a while it will randomly, you know, when I go to change the volume, instead of bringing up the audio volume, it brings up the voice operation volume, which I'm not even sure what that is. And so I'm trying to change the volume and it's not responding properly. And it also takes quite a long time to boot up when you first get in the car, you know, to get to a point where you can actually do anything with the screen takes a while. So, you know, VW does have over the air software update capability for this thing. And they just put out a release a couple of days ago, actually, that they're going to start pushing out otaa updates to the ID vehicles starting with vehicles in Europe. And so hopefully, they'll have some updates to the the infotainment software soon that improve the performance and the reliability of it. It did, like kind of hang up completely on me a couple of times were just didn't respond to anything at all. But, you know, aside from that, you know, the rest of the driving experience was good, you know, I, I did, I drove around for several days, when I first got it, it was got it fully charged up, drove it for several days, drove about 230 miles, and still had 25 miles of range left showing up before I went to the EAA station and charged it up. And you know, got from from like, 7% state of charge to 85% in about 30 minutes. So you know, it's ready to 120 125 I think 125 kilowatts charging capability, it was doing like 123 124 until it got to about 40 or 50% and then started tapering off. So you can charge it fairly quickly, it does have support for plug in charge. When I went to the EAA station, the first charger I plugged it into it refused to authenticate. So I moved over to the one next to it, plugged it in, boom, worked fine. You know, it fabricated just start charging, I didn't have to tap, you know, doing anything with the credit cards or anything. VW is giving you three years of free DC fast charging with the ID four. And now that the the first editions are sold out, they're selling the ID four pro as the first regular model, those are starting at $40,000. And then you get the 70 $500 tax credit on that. And I think there's supposed to be a shorter range smaller battery version coming later on, as well as a dual motor all wheel drive version. So you'll probably have options between with sticker prices between about 35,040 $5,000 by probably the first part of next year. So overall, I like it. I just do hopefully they'll do something soon about the software. And probably I guess prior to the launch of the ID three, the launch was actually delayed for several months last year in Europe. And apparently it was primarily because of software issues. And VW is doing a lot of this stuff in house, which a lot of automakers are starting to do. And I think they still have some learning to do about developing a lot of the software in house, there's there's still a lot of challenges.

But if you're if you're looking for an Eevee You know, this is one I would definitely take a look at. Although, you know, if you can wait a few more months, you might also want to hold off and look at the Hyundai ionic five, which I don't think any of us have tried yet. But you know, it's a similar size vehicle. And it potentially has some advantages over this one. Like even faster charging, it's got 350 kilowatt charging capability. And you know, a little bit different styling direction for that one. So there's there's a lot more options coming. But if you if you're looking for an Eevee right now, if you can find an ID for a Volkswagen dealer, which I haven't looked at the VW dealer yet to see what their inventories are like, but if it's anything like other automakers right now, it could be a problem to actually get your hands on one, but it's definitely worth a look.

Nicole Wakelin  34:52  
I've only ever seen one like on the road here. As you're saying I feel like I need to drive by my local Volkswagen dealership but I've literally seen one

Roberto Baldwin  35:01  
I am I did a video for Tom's guide. I think the review is coming out this week for the vehicle, but we are at an EAA station and another person who just bought the ID for it was our first time charging. While I was at the station. I was like, Oh, this is what you need, because there's an issue where the the, if you're trying to authenticate in a doesn't the the charge pose the cable There you go.

Nicole Wakelin  35:32  
Call the charge, charge, the charge

Sam Abuelsamid  35:35  
flow in the hose through which electrons flow

Roberto Baldwin  35:37  
the electron hose z electron hose got Wouldn't that she couldn't detach it and you have to like unlock the car, you have the Carson lock yet to unlock again. So it keeps people from sort of like coming up to your car and a lot and pulling the pulling the, the the electron hose out of your vehicle. And yeah, so I and I've seen more and more than I've seen more monkeys on the road recently than I've seen it for is but yeah, it is sort of, you know, again, I live in the Bay Area. So that's, that's, you know, you got to take that into account because we're all hippies up here. But yeah, I really like the idea for and again, that but that that latency on that infotainment system. And like you said, sometimes it's fine. And sometimes just like, Oh, I just don't even want to deal with this. Just like, what is happening is like, you're just like pushing it out, forget it, and you just like plug in your phone, and then I use you know, Car Play or whatever. And because I'm just like, Alright, I've tested this enough to know that things are not going as well as it should.

Sam Abuelsamid  36:40  
It's fine. I was talking to my friend Stephanie brenly, about a month or so ago, when when she had it. And she was, she had just gotten it the day before. And she was telling me, like, she couldn't, there was no START STOP button, you know, and when she got out of the car, you know, the radio, you know, the audio would keep playing until she until you get up off the seat, you know, it was using the sensor in the seat, when you put it in park and you get out, that's when it turns off the audio system. And I didn't talk to her after that. A couple days later, she found the START STOP button, it was the same thing with me. You know, a couple days after I had it, I was I was looking from the passenger side and I realized that it's actually on the side of the steering column where you'll never see it. So you don't actually have to turn it on and off. You know, when when you put it in park and you get out it'll turn everything off. And when you lock the doors, you know, it'll be shut off. But oh, that's the other thing. When you lock the doors, most cars when you lock the doors, you know, it gives you a little beep of the horn to let you know that it's responded. Nothing no sound from the ad for it just it just locks.

Nicole Wakelin  37:48  
Like where you can make it be that you like somewhere

Sam Abuelsamid  37:52  
that I could find now, okay, it's all there probably is somewhere in the software. But I couldn't find it. By time. Yeah,

Roberto Baldwin  37:59  
that off on button is great if you're shooting video because I would get up. And we would want like the lights on or whatever to like, do something while we're shooting video. So you can see the light and you get up and you're like, Okay, we got to turn on the car. And I'm like, it's a hole. And I was trying to explain to the videographer, I'm like, it's a whole thing. Like, usually you get out in the car just turns off. He's like, well, we'll carry on, like, fortunately, there's a button here so we can turn this on. But yeah, if you don't know it's there. It's sort of it's very it's it's, it's it's there in the column, and it's sort of hidden, and it's only I guess for, I guess, for efficient video.

Sam Abuelsamid  38:33  
I guess, maybe, maybe, maybe, you know, if things go completely haywire with the software, maybe there's probably some sequence with that, that you have to use to reboot the thing, but something like that, tap

Roberto Baldwin  38:44  
it three times, and they do the contract code on the on the steering wheel up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, left, start. b 1123. Tap. In around.

Sam Abuelsamid  38:56  
And, and you know, the controls on the steering wheel are interesting too, because it's capacitive touch buttons on there. But there's haptic feedback. So it's like using you know, an iPhone seven or eight with the that has the the home of the home button that doesn't actually move, or a modern MacBook, you know, with a touchpad that doesn't actually move. So when you when you click it, it gives you haptic feedback that simulates the that it's clicking, but it's not actually moving. Yeah. And it's the same thing with the buttons on the steering wheel on this thing. So takes

Nicole Wakelin  39:31  
a question about that. Did you find you ever hit it by accident, I can't remember which vehicle I had that had haptic buttons that it would just feel like I was sort of, I mean that the touch buttons, they were you just I'd be turning the wheel. I've accidentally swiped my finger. And I have now cranked the volume to 12 as I'm trying to turn and now I can't crank it back down. Because I'm in the middle of turning the car. Did you find that you didn't hit them by accident?

Sam Abuelsamid  39:54  
No. No, because it's more like if you've driven a recent Audi with a touchscreen You know, they have haptic feedback in the touchscreen. So you actually have to press it. So it's not, it's not like just tapping on your phone screen where, you know, it's it's actually looking for a bit of pressure Got you. It's kind of more like the the 3d touch my phone.

Nicole Wakelin  40:16  
Yeah, cuz that was the one time it had it. It was just so easy like, you know, you're just driving you slide your hand down the steering wheel and your fingertips brush against something you're like, yeah, I didn't mean to change anything. Just repositioning my hands, folks leave everything alone.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:30  
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's that's not a problem. Because like I said, you do have to give it a little bit of pressure before it actually responds. So

Roberto Baldwin  40:39  
Oh, one last thing about the ID for that. I do appreciate the the, you know, it's, I think it was the first edition is 250 miles, but I felt like like, during regular driving just regular, you know, not testing it not like doing, you know, zero to 60 tests or whatever, but like, regular days, and I was just driving it. That Yeah, you could probably get like, 260 out of that thing. If you were just sort of like, Oh, yeah, cruising around town. I think the whole group is doing I think they're, they're sort of under reporting layer range, you know, probably for good reason. Because the whole reason they're super into E V's right now is because of, you know, a little thing we all like to call diesel gate. But, uh, yeah, I think you know, I think the the whole VW Group sort of push for it's 250. But like, you know, sort of, like, they come up and whisper 360.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:25  
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said, I got, you know, I did 230, you know, and stopped at the charger was showing 25 miles left on there. And most, probably, two thirds to three quarters of that was actually highway driving, because I had to go to Detroit a couple of times. So it was, it was majority was highway driving, you know, and that's, you know, that's, you're gonna do worse on the highway with an Eevee because of the arrow. So, yeah, I think, you know, getting, as long as it's not, you know, too hot, you know, and you have to use the air conditioning too much. But even that, you know, I was using the AC. And, you know, I think in more and not, you know, in ideal conditions, you can easily get, I think 275 out of it, you know, if you're not being too aggressive with your driving, if it's mostly around town driving, I guess that is the one other thing I would complain about a little, you know, the, for the shift, you know, it's got this big thing on the side of the instrument cluster, and you twist it forward at the top to select drive and twist it, you know, back to select reverse, and push it into get neutral. If you push it twice, push it forward twice, you get you can go from Drive to be the braking mode, that's where you get your higher region. But it's not the region's not as aggressive as like, say, on the Mustang, or on a Nissan LEAF or on a BMW three when you're using one pedal driving, so it won't actually bring the car to a complete stop. And I've come to really like, you know, strong region. So I would prefer an option to have a little bit stronger region, but it's, you know, it's not not there right now on this vehicle.

Roberto Baldwin  43:09  
Yeah, probably. I mean, yeah, I think the one pedal driving and it's fun to I will say, tell people this it is fun to gauge how well one pedal driving works and how many intersections it takes for you to come to a stop right at the line. And I think for all vehicles that are out there right now, I think the Pollstar to does it best. And I'm saying that because on the first intersection on the second intersection, I was able to come to a stop right on the line.

Nicole Wakelin  43:34  
I remember trying that for the very first time in the Nissan LEAF and they're like, yeah, you just this one pedal driving but and I'm like, okay, and I stopped like, eight feet back. I'm like, boom, oh, wait, that that was okay. I get how this works. The next intersection like, ah, must actually break. Okay, this is I can't figure this out. It takes a little takes a little time. But then you get it like, I get how this works. Yeah, he's got

Sam Abuelsamid  43:54  
a You got it. You got to learn that feel for it. I remember the first time I drove a car with strong region, like that was the mini he the original, like the pilot program, really mini ease that they built back in 2008. And at the LA Auto Show, they were doing some drives with it. And you know, I pulled out of the garage at the LA Convention Center. And the first time I took my foot off the accelerator, like, Whoa, yeah, I wasn't I wasn't expecting that level of DSL with it. Because it was so aggressive. But you know, within a few intersections, you know, I kind of had the feel for it. Alright, let's do some news. News. News. So, Peugeot, part of the still lantis group this week unveiled their new race car that they're going to take to the mall next year. It's part of the new Lamar hypercloud hypercar class. And it's a it's a hybrid, like, you know, many of these modern prototypes are, but it's, it looks really different. from, from most modern prototype racecars? Have you had a chance to take a look at the photos of this thing?

Roberto Baldwin  45:09  
It looks very fancy. It looks fantastic. It looks like a futuristic car in a video game. When you're playing, you know, some sort of exotic granturismo Yeah, like the next generation crazy super car. This is

Nicole Wakelin  45:24  
up with those tail lights. Are they literally just like pieces that stick out? Like,

Roberto Baldwin  45:29  
little stabby

Nicole Wakelin  45:31  
stabby bits I'm trying to get I don't think they have a close up of those. But they're like little stabby

Sam Abuelsamid  45:36  
No, they don't they only have a few photos of it. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of for those that haven't seen it. And we'll include the pictures in the show notes. But it's it's kind of like on current generation Mustangs, you know, where they have the three sort of the blade, three dimensional tail lights, but only more so they're they're much larger. And they look like three, three blades on Yeah, on each side. And I'll be curious to see how well those hold up on the racetrack, you know, when they're, Fender to Fender racing. See, see how durable those are. But the really unique thing about this, do you notice anything that appears to be missing from this car, compared to modern, most modern racecar,

Roberto Baldwin  46:17  
hello, large wing, there is no big giant wing attached to the back. Peugeot says, Hey, we figured it out. We don't need a giant wing we can do without a

Nicole Wakelin  46:27  
can wing.

Roberto Baldwin  46:28  
We have aerodynamics on our side without a wing. So we'll see

Nicole Wakelin  46:34  
that we're looking at it with there's that one thing that's like the totally just head on angle. And it's funny the way those little side pieces go that run along the body. It looks like there's a wing when you look from the front, you can totally see how the design works. Like it totally looks like it until you look at the side or the back. Look at those fancy like engineers with the aerodynamic knowledge and stuff a

Sam Abuelsamid  46:58  
lot of time in the wind tunnel and doing CFD simulations with this thing. Yeah, you know, the the rules for for the hypercar class. You know, there's some things that they're very specific about. Like they, they significantly restrict what they call the lift to drag ratio, you know, so how much downforce you can get, versus how much aerodynamic drag the body has. And it's limited to like four to one. And so if you look at the other hypercars so far, like the the Toyota and the glickenhaus that are out there, they both still have big wings, but because these things are designed to run in a mall where they've got these really long straights, you know, really high speeds. They, you know, they're set up for relatively low drag. And I think, you know, Peugeot figured out that they could generate enough downforce just from the underbody of this thing that they could get by without a wing. And, you know, we'll see, you know, late this year when they actually start testing it on the track. these are these are this is just a mock up photos of a mock up that they that they've released this week. But I hope that they you know that this thing actually works, because I would love to see something so different running in this. There's gonna be some some interesting stuff coming to the hypercar class over the next couple of years. Ferrari's joining this class and there's there's some others and I'm just glad to see somebody doing something creative and hopefully this one works better than the last really creative Lamont prototype, which was the Nissan GTR NISMO back in 2015. I don't know if you if either of you to remember that one. was a pretty wild looking car. No, I think that's like you're thinking of the the Mercedes CLR Oh, yeah, they got airborne a few times. And they finally they finally withdrew them from the race. Now the the the nice, the Nissan was this. It was, unlike most modern race cars, it was front engine. It was actually front wheel drive, and had a really unique aerodynamic concept. It was meant to be meant to be a hybrid, but they never got the hybrid system working right. So it had really big front tires and really skinny rear tires. It was really hyper optimized for llama. And then the bodywork, you know, had these channels for the air to flow through. So it would put down you know, all the power through the front wheels. And it was supposed to be really low drag. And, you know, similar this in terms of generating downforce with a body. But the the hybrid system didn't work. And it was a complete disaster at Lamar. And like three weeks after the race, Nissan pulled the plug on the whole program instead of continuing to develop it. They just said, Forget it. We're done. Wow, that was never been seen since. That's a lot of money to be like,

Nicole Wakelin  49:56  
that's a lot of money that it must have been so horrifically bad. They're like we spent A ton of money. Oh no, we'd have to spend a ton more done. Yeah, regular

Roberto Baldwin  50:05  
car. Like the kids instead.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:10  
Well, they're nice. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Here's the I'll Drop. Drop it in the slack here so you can see it. it's it's a it's a definitely a unique car. Got a very different look from any other modern Mont prototype.

Nicole Wakelin  50:30  
Look at the wing. Alright, but okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:33  
Yeah. Yeah, it's got a, it's got a way. All right. All right. Back to E V's, re mass, the little Croatian startup that has garnered some attention in recent years for some crazy fast electric supercars. matej, rimasta, founder and CEO. They have taken control of Bugatti. From Volkswagen, they basically Volkswagen handed it to him said here, you take it.

Nicole Wakelin  51:08  
You take it I'm not gonna try it.

Sam Abuelsamid  51:11  
Yeah, Bugatti, you know, while they have created some pretty amazing cars over the last 20 years, really only two cars they've only had two main models the veteran and the shear on the current one. You know, it's it's often referred to as Ferdinand PX folly, because he bought the bought the rights to the Bugatti name in the late 90s when he was still CEO of Volkswagen. And they wanted to build the ultimate car. And I think what's a share on go for now? I think base prices something like two, two and a half million dollars

Roberto Baldwin  51:48  
million dollars. times 2.5?

Sam Abuelsamid  51:53  
Yeah, I think the VA Ron I think over about a nine year production run. I think they built 450 of them, I think 300 coops and 150 convertibles and they're currently doing the shear on. So they, they I guess what they did was they set up a joint venture between Porsche and REMAX with Remax owning 55% of the joint venture. And Porsche owns 45%. And that joint venture company, they Volkswagen just hand it over control just transferred the shares of Bugatti to this new joint venture. So REMAX has control so it's gonna be interesting what do you what do you think that REMAX might do with Bugatti?

Roberto Baldwin  52:37  
I you know in the in the press in their interviews and they were saying you know we're not going to just go out and make an electric Bugatti and we're not gonna make you know, we're still gonna have a gas powered Bugatti, you know, coming in we're still going to have an Eevee remaster but I think in the future you know, I think you know, they're they're going to have something interesting i think it's it's a Bugatti as part of the Volkswagen Group was always kind of, I mean, he understood why I was there, but at the same time, it was just so I don't know it's it's such a niche automaker, for for Volkswagen to own and they already have a performance brand they already have Porsche and so having Bugatti was always just like a by the way, we also add Lambert Lamborghini Yeah, and like, sorry, and Lamborghini, sorry, Lamborghini. But you know, they have two performance brands, and one is a supercar maker. And then they have Bugatti, which is making supercars for not just the ultra rich, but the incredibly insane, ultra rich, I've been offered a chance to drive a Ducati a few times. And each time it hasn't worked out. But also each time the idea of driving something that's worth like, more than the entire block where I live is worth is insane. I can see why, you know, they were they were sort of shopping around and I think there was rumors for a while that we mass was going to pick them up. And I think this is a better fit. Because it's it's two brands that are just sort of into insane brands with like, a, you know, a performance brand is like kind of a base in there with with Porsche. But yeah, I you know, it'll be interesting to see what they have in about 10 years. I think it's gonna be a while before we see something like really just, you know, where they merge both. Both both companies into one. I don't know $7 billion.

Nicole Wakelin  54:29  
Yeah, cuz it's not like these are companies that are pumping out like new cars every you know, we have seven different models in our lineup, and it's been three years and it's time for a refresh and three years in time for an all new there's such a long timeframe and so few vehicles. It has to take a while before we really see them mesh together into one giant, expensive, crazy car. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  54:53  
Yeah, I think I guess I think Bugatti is average that something like 50 cars a year that they build, you know, so it's They are definitely very small numbers. So and I think I think they're planning to build about the same number of Chevron's that they did very Ron's. So, you know, it's still got quite a few years left in its product cycle. So maybe by the time the Chevron's done, maybe they'll think of something to do with, with the brand.

Roberto Baldwin  55:17  
So then with an EN at the end, the ion, the ion, I'm gonna call it the next move it is called an ion or the electric, Bugatti is going to be called the ion there. I'm done.

Nicole Wakelin  55:28  
Not too close to ionic. No, I mean, because people can easily get confused between whatever the Bugatti would be your typical Hyundai.

Sam Abuelsamid  55:37  
Somebody's going into going into going into a Bugatti dealer with the intention of buying ionic five and ends up with an ion

Nicole Wakelin  55:45  
surprise.

Sam Abuelsamid  55:48  
This is $4 million, please.

Roberto Baldwin  55:52  
All right. Sure.

Sam Abuelsamid  55:53  
I thought they said this was $40,000. Not $4 million.

Roberto Baldwin  55:58  
You know, dealer markups, man. They're crazy.

Nicole Wakelin  56:01  
They're crazy. Crazy.

Sam Abuelsamid  56:04  
Alright, last night, as we're recording, I went to Detroit. They BMW held another event like the one you went to in LA, a few weeks ago. And they had the the Ifor and the AI x there. And that's all a lot of grill on both of those cars. That doesn't do anything.

Roberto Baldwin  56:27  
It is a lot of well, they said the answers behind them. But I don't need that grill for those sensors. It's not like there's the sensor now the size of a of a, I don't know. I don't know how what I don't even know what how I know the size of a Nissan Versa, how many sensors the size of a versa. That's how big the grills are?

Nicole Wakelin  56:47  
The size of an entire versa. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  56:52  
But I think the thing, the thing that surprised me more, is when I realized that I hadn't I hadn't realized this before when I was reading about it. Both of these cars have you know, proportions, not altogether different from other BMWs which means, you know, they have a fairly long hood. You know, the cabinet is set back, you know, and it's got that kind of sport sporty vehicle proportion to them. But neither of them has a front trunk, despite having a really long hood. And in fact, on the on the ix. Turns out, you can't even open the hood. Oh, if it's not there is no, there is no release for the hood.

Nicole Wakelin  57:36  
Is there even doesn't look like

Sam Abuelsamid  57:38  
for the dealer to do it. See? Oh, yeah, yeah, there's a cut line there and everything. So there is a hood, but the owner cannot open it you have to take it to a dealer, you know, so basically it's just for service access to stuff and you know, to the motor, the front motor and so

Nicole Wakelin  57:53  
they don't want you to ever touch it like Do not touch this. We have sealed it. You may not go in here. I was

Roberto Baldwin  57:59  
just like the if you couldn't open the ad they're

Sam Abuelsamid  58:02  
glued in the eye, but it's fine. It's true. But I mean, that was all on the shorter front end.

Roberto Baldwin  58:06  
That's true on the i x when you want to put a washer washer fluid in the the logo, the BMW logo like pops. Yeah, you pour it in there. Someone's gonna. Someone's gonna be sorry, someone's gonna borrow their friend I actually had forgot where to put gas. I'm gonna put it in that thing and then windshields gonna catch fire.

Sam Abuelsamid  58:30  
Yeah. And but aside from the drill, I think the Ifor actually looks really good. I'm not crazy about the I think it's a little weird looking. But the floor looks good. It's

Roberto Baldwin  58:44  
the profile. The iPhone is really nice as long as you

Sam Abuelsamid  58:47  
as long as you approach it from the back or the side. I think it's great. Like, just don't just don't ever walk up to it from the front.

Roberto Baldwin  58:54  
I mean, they don't need any you know, the they just unveiled the new two series without a manual transmission boo. But the grill on the front of that thing is really small. Like I was like, okay, there, BMW will not back down on the grill. But for some reason on the two series, they're like, yeah, we don't need a big girl on this car. Maybe because it would have eaten a car who knows.

Nicole Wakelin  59:15  
It could be a grill shield, because right over the windshield you can only see through for one direction because it's grill that goes all the way up.

Sam Abuelsamid  59:28  
Just fold it right into the hood

Nicole Wakelin  59:30  
right right over the top goes back down around the back of the car. You can

Roberto Baldwin  59:34  
call them diffusers once they hit the back of the car as diffusers with their diffusers once they once they get over the

Nicole Wakelin  59:44  
across the midpoint

Roberto Baldwin  59:46  
which is the B pillar to the fuser has.

Sam Abuelsamid  59:52  
All right, we got one one final Evie item today. And that's this morning, still lantis held there, Evie day They have been promising for a while and release some more information, either view, or have a chance to look at what they talked about.

Nicole Wakelin  1:00:11  
I'm looking now I am reading through the giant press release.

Roberto Baldwin  1:00:16  
Yeah, I think, you know, it's fun because I like to direction scientists and you know, is going because of all the automakers I think FCA has never encountered an admission standard that it didn't hate. They were like, no, we're putting big giant engines. They're like, Oh, we're gonna have these images. No, these are horrible. And, you know, even the Fiat 500. I mean, they were losing a lot of money on that they were losing, like, I think they're saying, like $14,000. But that was the best fee at the 500 fee. And they were telling you, the CEO actually said, Don't buy this car, please do not buy this car because I'm losing money. And I'm sure you probably said it with an Italian accent. I'm not going to try that because that seems offensive. But yeah, I like the idea that that's the lantis which, you know, Fiat Peugeot had a got married and came up with the name that you would find in Greek mythology. They, yeah, they're

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01:11  
on a pharmaceutical ad.

Nicole Wakelin  1:01:14  
Just sounds like a drug. I'm sorry. No matter how much I tried to get by it, I can't

Roberto Baldwin  1:01:19  
still at this may cause diarrhea. Yeah, I mean,

Nicole Wakelin  1:01:23  
check to see if still interest is right for you.

Roberto Baldwin  1:01:26  
Don't use the lantis.

Nicole Wakelin  1:01:28  
See, it's so easy for us to riff on this, you know,

Roberto Baldwin  1:01:33  
okay, now, okay, now, I can't now I can't get away from it. But you know, the, the outside the name, status. You know, they have four platforms that are coming up. One of them is a a frame platform. So you can do body on frame, which means you can get a truck where you can swap out the bed for you know, whatever weird thing you want to put back there. Which, which is sort of exciting for the trucking industry. They have, you know, around 1500 coming, they got a lot of news coming out and they're spending a ton of money before 2025. I for what

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:06  
$36 billion?

Roberto Baldwin  1:02:08  
Yeah, yeah, a lot of That's a lot. That's that's like for veterans. Yeah, they, they, you know, it's it's, they do have a bunch of really weird like sort of catchphrases reach brand, but

Nicole Wakelin  1:02:24  
I was waiting for that because first of all, they have 14 brands now, which I don't think ever counted 14 brands in the company, and they've got 14 different electrified, taglines, and some of these are okay, and some of these are a little bit weird. And like the Jeep one zero emission freedom. That's kind of cool with their whole

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:46  
fits with G

Nicole Wakelin  1:02:47  
like that works for G

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:50  
but then dodge tear up the streets not the planet.

Roberto Baldwin  1:02:54  
Take that streets. Course. Yeah. But then it gets really weird like a bar heating up people not the planet.

Nicole Wakelin  1:03:02  
I don't get that isn't like they now what I'm cooking people. Chris was good clean technology for new generation of families. Okay, Chrysler. That one. I like the Chrysler I like the jeep. What's Fiat? It's only green when it's green for all. What?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:22  
What I don't even know what that what that means.

Nicole Wakelin  1:03:25  
What does that mean? Does everyone get a free Fiat that so that we're all green? I don't. does everyone want it? I don't think so. I don't

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:33  
think it's gonna be all electric. I mean, that's that's all we know. Yeah, there's, there's some. And mas rotties. pretty lame, the best, the best performance luxury, electrified.

Nicole Wakelin  1:03:47  
What is the Alfa Romeo thing? Did they elaborate on that? From 2024? Oh, no, they

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:51  
didn't they, Romeo. Yeah, they only talked about six of the brands in any with any specifics. Alpha wasn't one of them. Now, there was Mazda rottie. They, they're going to be talking more about them later. But, you know, for for the US, you know, they did talk about Dodge, Ram and Jeep. So dodge is finally going to get a new car in 2024. It's and, and Tim can discuss who's the head of the Dodge brand, you know, said you know, Dodge is not going to sell electric cars. It's selling electric he muscle. So they're, they're sticking with the muscle car theme. But but they're gonna use, you know, electricity to get you there. And so they're they're launching an electric muscle car in 2024. And they gave you know a vague glimpse of something that may or may not be, you know, that car. I think one of the interesting details on there, did you did you happen to notice the logo on that car and In the center of the grill, this little sort of triangle, that it's, it's actually it's the Dodge logo from that was introduced in 1955. And was used through the 1960s and into the early 70s. And hasn't been seen for a long time. Interesting that kind of going back to that logo. So there's going to be, we don't know if it's going to be replacement for the charger or the challenger or both. Or what you know what else they're going to do just that there's going to be at least you know, the first their first Evie is coming in three years, and it's going to be an electric muscle car. And they during the section of the presentation where they talked about technology, you know, they talked about the stela large platform, which is what dodge is going to use will be capable of up to 00 to 60 in as little as two seconds. So they're clearly going after, after Tesla. I guess they're they're tired of challenger demons being blown away at the drag strip by Model S plads. I guess

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:03  
but would you rather have a challenger demon or a Model S plan? Which would you rather have regardless of what it does at the track?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:09  
Oh,

Roberto Baldwin  1:06:09  
man. That's a tough one.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:13  
You mean a current a current demon or like a future electric demon

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:17  
current demon.

Roberto Baldwin  1:06:19  
I would. You know, I can I don't want either real it's something I have to deal with.

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:25  
No, you have to pick one. Rob. I know. I know.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:30  
It's something I have to drive every day. I'd probably go for the Tesla.

Roberto Baldwin  1:06:35  
Yeah, I can. No. I don't think market steering wheel like yeah, if I just need to get an aftermarket. Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:40  
a real steering model.

Roberto Baldwin  1:06:42  
Yeah, I'll go into Tesla.

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:44  
But you have to change the steering wheel. If you can't rip it apart. You have to drive it just like it comes from OEM.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:48  
Oh, man. It's got to be the demon. Yeah, I can't deal with that. steering.

Roberto Baldwin  1:06:54  
It's it's outside safe. It's

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:56  
unsafe. It's an in case anyone thinks the interiors of cars don't matter. These guys just pick their car like no steering wheel sucks. I doubt

Roberto Baldwin  1:07:06  
it's unsafe. It's the opposite. It's more than just its socks. It's it's bad. Okay, anyway, yeah, yeah, there we go.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:17  
So Robbie, you're talking about the, the body on frame the Stella frame platform. And that's going to be the basis for Ram 1500 Electric, which is coming in 2024, which is obviously later than the light in the F 150. Lightning or the Silverado electric. But they talked about, you know, yeah, our competitors are going to be there first with an electric truck, but we're going to be the best. And they talked about a range of up to 500 miles, you know, that a big thing they talked about was, you know, focusing on efficiency, you know, getting the most miles per kilowatt hour out of their, out of their TVs. So we'll see if they can actually achieve that. And if they can come up with something better than what their their competitors are doing with electric trucks.

Roberto Baldwin  1:08:02  
They say like four kilowatt 4.2 miles per kilowatt hour,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:09  
something. Yeah, I think so. I think that was the target.

Roberto Baldwin  1:08:12  
Yeah, which is like Tesla. And I think Hyundai's like 4.1 right now are 4.0. So, four point something, anything above four is pretty is good. Efficiency numbers are

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:22  
especially, you know, in a in something as big as a full size truck. Yeah, that's, that's where you're, you know, it's tough to get that kind of efficiency. Yeah. And then, Jeep, you know, Jeep, as you well know, you know, the Kohl's husband just got his jeep wrangler, for by he the first plug in Jeep in North America. By 2025, there are going to be battery electric versions of for jeeps in every product segment. So from the renegade up to the wagoneer, there will be electric jeeps. So be interesting to see what they come up with their, you know, see how they how they do those

Roberto Baldwin  1:09:05  
words, they'll keep the name Magneto or if they're afraid that Marvel's gonna sue them. For the Wrangler, because the other rank the Magneto concept.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:13  
Oh, that concept? Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin  1:09:15  
They'll probably just say keep it regular and no, just probably the Wrangler E by E. I don't depend

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:24  
on what depends on what you know what I haven't looked at what Marvel's actual trademark is, you know, it may only be for cartoon characters, you know, because nietos existed long before Marvel Comics.

Nicole Wakelin  1:09:37  
I don't think Marvel owns it, because I just randomly googled Magneto, and there's very many other things with that name in it. So you would think they would have the name

Roberto Baldwin  1:09:47  
if you have the IP, but they have the IP specifically for a fictional character as opposed to a fictional concept car. All right,

Nicole Wakelin  1:09:54  
right. Totally two different fictional things.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:01  
Okay, any other thoughts on still lantis and what they're doing?

Nicole Wakelin  1:10:06  
I think it's kind of cool. I'm happy to see them moving up and having a solid plan for it.

Roberto Baldwin  1:10:11  
I think that the idea that has to be a race at this point to be first and ease well everyone lost that race Tesla won that race. I mean, we I think we're now we were just sort of settling into everyone like catching up with Tesla but everyone's catching up at different areas. You know, people don't you know, if you have a car that's easy this year, you know, you might you might get some new buyers but people don't buy a new car every year there's gonna be people in two years who need a new car in three years and five years in whatever who are sort of transitioning out of either gas vehicles or hybrid vehicles into an Eevee so you got some time but not a lot you know, you still want to get as many people as possible

Nicole Wakelin  1:10:50  
yeah I don't think it's a race to like we have this you don't everybody has it so it's really more raised to who's going to deliver one that for whatever reason is just better features better drive better range, faster charging, whatever those things start to matter because just like I have when you don't doesn't work anymore like we all have one. Everybody has one so you go and

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:11  
select is already has a bunch of Yeah, it's the lightest already has a bunch of TVs in Europe. Yeah, under there, you know, under the previous PSA brands Peugeot Citroen, DS and Opel and Vauxhall and they're in Europe through the first half of this year still and this is actually number two in Evie sales behind Volkswagen Group Volkswagen Group is number one, still Lantus is number two, Tesla's number five. So still, that is actually sells more e V's in Europe than Tesla does by a pretty wide margin. There's they're just not they're not vehicles that we can buy here. And they're not they're not the type of vehicles that most Americans are interested in like the E 208. You know, compact

Nicole Wakelin  1:11:52  
well, and even here wasn't the and correct me if I've used him wrong, but I thought that the, the Jeep, the Wrangler was like the best selling plug in hybrid in the last month or some such it just hits some cool landmark number for June.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:06  
Yeah. Yeah. Was the plugin. The best song? Yeah, I think it was the best selling plug in hybrid that I heard somebody saying that, you know, they're getting like a 20% take rate on the four by IE, for the Wrangler right now. So like, 20% of all the orders for Wranglers are for the plug in hybrid. Impressive. I

Roberto Baldwin  1:12:27  
mean, it's a good car. It's a good Jeep. It's a jeep. Yeah, yeah. It's good enough for the Nicolle family.

Nicole Wakelin  1:12:35  
It's good enough for the Nicole family. My husband, he got it for exactly 48 hours. And he loves it. So there you go.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:39  
Done. Let's salt. Let me Is he actually plugging it in?

Nicole Wakelin  1:12:44  
Yeah, well, the funny thing is we were there were some confusion about when it was gonna arrive. Because we ordered this because we didn't have what we wanted. And it was like, it's not here. It's not here. It's not here. It's here. And my husband has not installed a level two charger the house yet. So he's just plugging it in the old fashioned way. So he charges it overnight. But literally, he has to charge it overnight. Because it's essentially trickle charging. But yeah, but he and he went he like drove to work and got to work on almost using like, he wasn't quite there. And he knew he was gonna run out of you know, electric power. So he just stopped at the mall, got himself a coffee charge for a little bit, got back to the car finished driving dork. He was all but he's like playing with this. If ever, there was evidence that like when you get one suddenly getting that electric range matters. It's the last 48 hours of my husband playing with this car. Like, I got this. Like I've only used this much gas. Yeah. So but he does.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:13:36  
The other day on Twitter, I saw somebody posted that a neighbor just got a four by E Wrangler for buddy. And we went over to talk to him and his neighbor didn't even know that it was a plug in hybrid. He wasn't even aware what it was he just wanted a Wrangler and that was that was what was available. He bought it you know, not even think not even realizing was a plug in hybrid. And so he asked him you know, so you're gonna plug it in now? Yeah, not even gonna bother. Why? Why wouldn't you got it? You might as well plug it in.

Nicole Wakelin  1:14:11  
Right if you have it like when I use that. That seems kind of weird. Well, it's also a guy who bought a car that he didn't know was a plug in.

Roberto Baldwin  1:14:21  
Maybe he's not a good now. Yeah, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:25  
Oh, wow. All right, let's answer a few listener questions and wrap it up. Okay, so, first one from surtur I like the maverick with the hybrid powertrain But will I like the CVT are there good cvts to find good,

Nicole Wakelin  1:14:41  
that's what I was. What's good if they're all cbts are cvgs

Roberto Baldwin  1:14:47  
are inherently not great. There

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:52  
are some that are better than others. Some some of the Nissan's are okay. Yeah, yeah. Good, but they're, they're, you know, some of the Nissan's that are perfect. gram to behave more like conventional transmissions. You know, are there there? Okay. Yeah. Because they don't really feel like cvts Yeah, yeah. But, you know, most of them are not particularly

Nicole Wakelin  1:15:13  
relate. There's one. I don't think I can think of them like, Wow, that is a great CVT. Bring it. That's fantastic. I can only think of cvts that are less disappointing than others like, oh, that one's not so bad. Yeah, that one's actually okay. that one, that one I don't mind. I've never walked away and been like, wow, you know, did it just like

Roberto Baldwin  1:15:33  
crack the CVT code?

Nicole Wakelin  1:15:35  
Yeah, I've never thought that in any one I've ever driven. It's always just like, Well, that was not as bad as it could have been.

Roberto Baldwin  1:15:42  
Yeah, I've been racking my brains and saying this to this question this morning. Like, what's a good CVT? And I'm just like,

Nicole Wakelin  1:15:49  
yeah, crickets can't think of one. Is There Really?

Roberto Baldwin  1:15:52  
Maybe, maybe Ford will? I mean, Ford's been doing some pretty great things recently. Maybe they'll they'll crack the code.

Nicole Wakelin  1:15:59  
I mean, that's true. We're looking like, Is there one right? The second none of us have driven the maverick. Nobody knows what the CVT is gonna be like, maybe all three of us will get it and come out, go, Oh, my gosh, they did it, did it. They did it. They have the perfect CBT. I was hoping.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:15  
Okay, so set aside the question of CBT for a minute, you've both driven for hybrid vehicles, probably, you know, hybrid escape and fusions and stuff like that over the years. What did you think of driving those vehicles?

Roberto Baldwin  1:16:28  
Yeah, that that's what I thought about that. That's that I think if they can, if they can, but were they offensive, they weren't offensive, they just know.

Nicole Wakelin  1:16:37  
They're not horrible. Like, really, a few years ago, like cvts were just all pretty horrible. And they're collectively all getting less horrible. Like they're a little bit better and a little bit better. But I, I don't feel like any of them. I just give me an automatic transmission. So far, I just don't feel like the cvts have the they never bring the same give you the same drive experience that an automatic is you can tell the difference until you can't tell the difference. You can't feel it, you can't hear it, then they're not going to be good.

Roberto Baldwin  1:17:11  
I think Ford has a potential here because it is if it is a hybrid, that you can program it in a way that the hybrid powertrain kicks in. And that sort of gives you that low end torque that you get from an automatic transmission or a manual transmission that CVT sometimes sort of dropped the ball on. And if they can figure out how to make it not sound like the engine's going to explode, because that's the problem.

Nicole Wakelin  1:17:42  
They all sound like that's exactly what I always feel like it sounds like cylinders are just gonna go shooting through the hood of your car, like things are going wrong. There, it just,

Roberto Baldwin  1:17:51  
I think they're terrible. I think the hybrid powertrain is probably the best use of a CVT, if you can figure out how to match them up in a way that recreates on automatic transmission feel. I don't think I don't know if you can, I think generally

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:07  
for Yeah, generally the Ford, you know, the front wheel drive Ford hybrids, you know, feel more like that, you know that using the electric motor to fill that low end torque hole, you know, so it doesn't have to do as much of that motor boating effect as, as you would with just a regular gas engine, and a CVT. So it's not, you know, revving up to 4500 rpm and sitting there while you accelerate. It's, it's using the electric motor for more of that, you know, to keep keep the engine running at a lower speed. And so, it's, I think it's less offensive than most oil, and gas and just straight gas engines with a CVT, because it's a different, it's not the same as most CVT, Most cvts are, you know, it's a steel belt, between a pair of pulleys that, you know, the pulleys themselves, the two halves of the pulley split apart and move together, you know, up the opposite, you know, to change the ratio. So one, one splits apart the other moves together. So it changes the drive ratio. This, you know, on hybrids like this, it's a completely different mechanism, it's actually using planetary gears. And, you know, one of the two motors in the hybrid drive system is actually acting as a variable ground for the planetary gear, and we don't need to get into all the details, but it works in a very different way for most cvts. And I think, you know, it if you want to, if you want an idea of what it's likely to feel like, if you can find, you know, an escape or a fusion or C max hybrid, you know, from last few years, you know, and drive one of those, that's probably going to feel pretty much like that. So if, if you don't mind the way those feel, that's probably what this is going to drive like because it's the same basic architecture. I like

Roberto Baldwin  1:19:59  
to think They'll be better. But you know, fingers crossed that it's better than that. Just because I think forward is again, 40 been doing some pretty good stuff recently. And I believe in their likelihood that it might be better.

Nicole Wakelin  1:20:15  
Okay, I would I would, I would agree with that ringing endorsement. Robbie

Roberto Baldwin  1:20:19  
ringing endorsement that it'd be cool if it was cooler.

Nicole Wakelin  1:20:26  
cooler. Be

Roberto Baldwin  1:20:27  
Cool. If that could be Come on, man. Be Cool. Cool for, we'll reach out to our Ford peeps and get right on it.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:20:37  
Next one is from Dutch Mandel, who was a longtime former editor, I think or managing editor at autoweek. Yes. What's the likelihood of implementing a single plug standard for Evie, charging units and vehicles? How can that happen? What companies institutions leading that are leading the charge?

Nicole Wakelin  1:20:58  
leading the charge but above? So?

Roberto Baldwin  1:21:06  
So he's asking. So I mean, we have the right now we have the DC fast charge, essentially that standard where it has the level two and level three has a two little plugs underneath? I think that's is that what we're talking about? Like that? Or? Well, I

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:20  
think I think he's talking about you know, I'm assuming it's more along the lines of you know, you've got the Tesla connector, you get chademo. And you get CCS. Yeah. And CCS is, you know, you've got, it's basically the 7072 with the two extra pins.

Roberto Baldwin  1:21:37  
I feel like, yes, is the standard and probably going to, I don't think stay the standard, even Nissan is sort of decided, Okay, we got to put CCS on our vehicles in addition to chademo, because you could only get a leaf with chademo forever. And then you had to go find the chademo. Station. And there are they mean, EA has chatter most, you know, plugs at their stations for for those folks. But I think CCS is probably going to stay the standard and be the standard. And Tesla is an outlier, because Tesla is Tesla. And you know, even Tesla has to like deal with, you know, CCS in Europe. So,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:14  
yeah, it here in the US the only the only two brands that have ever used chademo are Nissan and Mitsubishi for their plug in hybrids. And both of those are going away, you know, the the leaf is probably still going to be chademo until the current generation is replaced. But the new Aria that's coming out, that's using CCS. So, you know, basically, you know, aside from Tesla, it's going to be CCS across the board. You know, in Europe, they regulators actually mandated a standard connector. You know, they said, everybody's gonna use CCS. I mean, it's a slightly different variant of CCS than we have here. Because it's has to support three phase AC, instead of the single phase like we use here. But it's, it uses the same communication standards. And it's not like very many people drive between the US and Europe. So a car that's in Europe is likely to stay there

Nicole Wakelin  1:23:11  
stay there, probably, probably.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:23:14  
Yeah. So in Europe, it's standardized, because regulator said, this is the standard. I don't think that's going to happen here. I mean, here, you know, most of the industry agreed on CCS, you know, except for Nissan, you know, and they're, they're jumping on board now. Unless, you know, some regulator comes forth and says, everything's got to be CCS. You're probably not going to see that happen here. I don't think maybe at some point, you know, Tesla will just give up and, you know, adopt CCS, but I wouldn't hold my breath as long as, as long as Ilan still breathing.

Roberto Baldwin  1:23:56  
Yeah, I don't I don't, I don't see them opening up to each other. I wrote an article a couple years ago, where you know, how much money Tesla money Tesla could make if they opened up their charging stations, other autos, the automobiles and, and supported CCS, because you could come into, you know, a Tesla, essentially a showroom every time you need to charge along the Tesla's supercharger network, if they had like a model three, and you showed up in a Chevy Bolt, but you know, it's it's, it's a lot of, you know, I talked to Tesla about and it, it really just comes down to the software, the hardware will support it as long as you put the CCS adapter on there. And it's down to the software set test, last support to software for the vehicle to vehicle support software, Tesla, etc, etc, etc. But you know, and they said, Oh, we'll let anyone charge on our network, but they haven't really done anything to make that a reality because they want everyone to be using Tesla's thing, and that's that the that happening has long since passed.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:53  
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the CCS standard was developed, you know, through an SAE Standards Committee. So, you know, a bunch of automakers and suppliers all participated in that process, developing that standard. So that's, yeah, that's, that's why everybody everybody that participated in that is using that. Alright, last question. Somebody named Rebecca drives his butt, but just running the car for the first time in a while. It's a, it's a Nissan Rogue sport. It has lane departure warning, blind spot monitoring, and emergency braking, but no push button start or remote locks, basic infotainment that the best strategy for rental cars keep it stripped or a chance to show tech and features.

Nicole Wakelin  1:25:42  
I always think rental cars would be a great way to show new stuff. But I think the problem is that people aren't looking to play with a rental car when they're you know, you're getting the car because you want to take it for a drive to get you someplace. Generally speaking, shorter distances. You know, you go someplace you need to rent a car to drive around town or I don't, I don't know how much people would play to see all the features that you know, if you've got a really fully featured infotainment system, or you're really good to look at all those things as you're just driving around visiting grandma for the weekend, you know,

Roberto Baldwin  1:26:15  
I think rental cars, just Yeah, all should have CarPlay or Android Auto support. And yeah, that's just that's all I want. Because I have everything I need on my phone and going in and being like, okay, is this something where I can talk to it? Oh, wait, I have to talk to a script. Oh, I have to do that. I'll have to pull over and push the buttons. I just want. I just want to be able to plug in my phone. I think drivability and the interior how nice the interior is. I think that's where you can really sort of like, hey, look how nice the interior the new Nissan Rogue is or how nice it drives. I think that's where you can sort of shine is an automaker here.

Nicole Wakelin  1:26:48  
Yeah, the interior would be huge, because we're normally driving the when we get press cars, we're generally driving higher trims, they're not giving us the base model of any kind of press car. So we're getting pretty nicely equipped car interiors, all the fancy, right. And the few times that I've had to rent a car, they feel like they could be really brand new, like no one's really driven it they're they're in great shape. But it's just like, Good Lord, when you look at the base trim, it does nothing to sell the car that I'm driving, where if you had the leather seats, that might convince somebody that hey, this is actually an all right kind of car, like I do think they miss out on the opportunity to show what they can do when the only cars they've got are these base models that just don't look as nice inside. I you know, people buy them, obviously, but that's not a great way to sell a car. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:34  
Well, I think the problem is, you know, people, you know, that are going on a vacation trip, you know, taking you know, taking the family to Disney World or somewhere, you know, we're going on a trip, they're going to rent a car, they go on Travelocity or Expedia or wherever. And you know, booked their flights, you know, book a rental car, it's like, Okay, I need a compact crossover, you know, what's the cheapest one I can get? Oh, Avis has has this rogue sport for Dale 120 bucks a day or, you know what, whatever the whatever, they go for the cheapest one of the type that the you know, the class that they need. And so if consumers want the cheapest possible rental car, the rental car companies aren't going to buy the high trim levels and rent them at those cheap rates. They're going to buy the stripped baseballs. And, you know, occasionally, you know, they will have higher trim levels, but they come at a much higher price point and most people aren't running those cars.

Nicole Wakelin  1:28:33  
But you'd wonder if they somehow did it. If an automaker said, Okay, look, we're gonna give you these instead of the stripped down base model, we'll give you this slightly better than that model, we'll give it to you at a price that you can still make it you know, it's even still have the top trim and rented out for more but here's a middle instead of a bottom trim, let's put that in your fleet. We'll give it to you at a cost that makes it worthwhile for you as if it was a base trim that would would that benefit the automaker that now they're, you know, if the if they're still able to rent those on the cheap, because they would it sell cars, or just make the base level better?

Roberto Baldwin  1:29:11  
How about that,

Nicole Wakelin  1:29:12  
that works?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:14  
Well, and i think i think that that is that is happening, you know, we talked about earlier, you know about the the towels and you know, some of the other, you know, entry level crossovers, you know, manufacturers are starting to put more and more of these features, you know, especially the Driver Assist stuff, but you know, even things like you know, a touchscreen with CarPlay and Android Auto support, you know, standard equipment, you know, might be a smaller touchscreen might be a seven inch instead of an eight or nine or 10 inch screen, but they're putting putting that a standard like that the the talus is an example the base house comes with a seven inch screen the upper level, upper trim levels, gets an eight inch or, or maybe was the Civic I was looking at, you know, but you know, they have standard Driver Assist. They have standard touchscreen with our CarPlay and Android Auto. I mean all the time. days and key is, you know, the the base models now all have that Honda's have that on all their other models. So I think, you know, as manufacturers move to making that kind of equipment standard, some of those cars are going to filter into the, into the rental fleets. You know, it's only, you know, Nissan, you know, Nissan has sold a lot of cars and or rental fleets over the last five, seven years. And, you know, they have continued to offer, you know, models that, like the rogue sport, you know, bass, rogue sport, that are missing some of these features. But I think, you know, the current generation rogue sport, you know, that's probably going to get replaced next year, because they just launched a new one in, in Europe. You know, you can get the rogue sport with push button start and with, you know, the nicer infotainment and everything. I think we'll see that in the next generation. I think they the next generation, they won't have a key, you know, it'll it'll, it'll have a touchscreen, so hopefully that problem will get better. Yeah. All right. I think that's all we got for this week. Any final thoughts? Nope, nope.

Roberto Baldwin  1:31:10  
None. All right. I'm devoid of thought.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:31:18  
Then we will talk to you next time. Bye bye.