Sam Abuelsamid  0:00  
Coming up on episode 224 wheel bearings the Toyota Prius Prime, the new Nissan Pathfinder, the Honda Civic Si BMWs, new XM concept, short run for the new Toyota gr 86 in Europe and pole stars upcoming models all that and more coming up next

this is episode 224 wheel bearings. I'm Sandra ball salmon from guidehouse insights.

Nicole Wakelin  0:30  
I am Nicole Wakelin from Aussie new outlet Forbes wheels.

Roberto Baldwin  0:35  
And I am Roberto Baldwin from Digital Trends, all the trends that are digital,

Sam Abuelsamid  0:41  
very good. Nicole, what have you been playing with this week?

Nicole Wakelin  0:44  
And playing with is the right description I have the 2022 Honda Civic Si for door in Blazing orange. Colors blazing orange, it is such the perfect color for this car to like white, gray black math, but this fun little thing blazing orange yes that it fits with the kind of car this is. So this has a 1.5 liter turbocharged four cylinder it's 200 horsepower, and you guys six speed manual transmission. Yay. So it's fun to get to try manual because I think I maybe get like half a dozen of those over the course of a year. Because nobody drives them anymore because the world is a sad sad place. But I love having her with manual transmissions. So this is super fun. 200 horsepower doesn't sound like a lot. This is a small car. This isn't some great big SUV. It's it's a very it's relatively small little car, very fun to drive. It has a series of modes that you can change when you put it in Sport mode. You can feel everything sort of hunker down and get heavy and it sounds amazing. It's a little bit of a head turner you know, this is just this is a sedan right so sedans aren't normally the kind of car that people generally look at unless they're like outrageously expensive and just lose money and luxury as you drive down the road. But this this attracted some attention people like this one. It has really nice interior details. I like how they styled it you know his like sports seats say SI is like embroidered sort of on the headrest. There's a sort of honeycomb pattern that goes across the dashboard. That gives it a little personality although my daughter said she thinks it looks silly. I don't know why she just doesn't like honey bees I guess but I'm like I like the little thing. I don't like it I'm like but it looks cool. She's like no it doesn't so I guess if you're 17 honeycomb not cool if you're my age honeycomb super cool. Very fun to drive this it has its you know when you're driving a manual transmission, there's always that that moment like you know how to drive one, but it takes you a little time to figure out exactly the right point for the clutch on everyone. So you spend the first half hour in the car like okay, wait am I gonna stall this like I've never driven before this is very quick, very, very quickly, you get the hang of this one super easy, very nice light, light clutch, it's I get stuck and stop and go traffic because there was an accident, which is like the worst because you're constantly off and on and off and on and off and on and you feel like your left leg is getting a workout. That is not fun. But this is a light enough clutch. It's still a sporty car but not one of those are the clutches so heavy that you feel like it's annoying anytime you're stuck in any kind of traffic handles just as beautifully as you would expect. If you want to take this on really like we have a section of highway where there's this huge swooping on ramp and you can get going pretty fast on it because you're getting up to highway speeds, you can take this you can take it a heck of a lot faster than the law would probably allow me to take to get onto the highway and it just stays so controlled and so planted you always feel very in control. The only drawback to the drive and this is something that I mentioned driving the the Hyundai the ends the other week the alarm on the Kona that it's harsh, you know we it's that time of year where we've started to get a little you know, the frost heaves which I guess some people don't know what it is the ice freezes under the road. It makes bumps that your car goes kaboom over because it expands. We're starting to get some of that so the roads aren't as great. They're never great. They're not at they're worse than normal.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:16  
Life in Michigan where we have frost heaves year round.

Nicole Wakelin  4:19  
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not that much better here. So but you do feel that so if you're you know, if you aren't aware of what the road is in front of you, if you're really cognizant of like Oh, I gotta watch that there's a bit of a pothole, there's a frosty there, the pavement just a little bit broken. You do feel it so it can be a little bit harsh, but it's not so harsh that it's gonna rattle your you know, fillings out of your teeth. It's just something that you will notice a relatively roomy, compact car might like I said, my daughter is 17 My husband is six, three, he sat at a friend's seat. She sat in the backseat, and her knees were pushed up to her chest. She had enough room. I don't necessarily think I'd put five people in This car, but for people just fine. And I think even as a cruiser, you know, like I said driving around town you feel that harshness because their city streets and you know country roads and they can get kind of torn up driving on the highway which by and large, most highways are pretty smooth. I don't know, maybe not in Michigan, Sam, the rest of the world, highways are pretty smooth. So you don't really care about the ride being a bit more harsh because the pavement so smooth anyway. And when you do just get this really nice controlled drive, it's very aggressive. If you need the power to pass someone who's going just a little bit too slow, you just want to go a little bit faster, and you're already you know, going 5560 miles an hour you can there's enough power that you can easily say, Okay, no problem, I'm gonna pass this guy and get around them. And it is, the handling is so good that it makes it kind of fun to drive in rush hour traffic. You know, if you're trying to get in and out and go between smaller, slower cars and faster cars. If you don't have something that handles well, you can't really do that you're sort of stuck because you don't have the the handling combined with a power to do that. You can go at you know, you can make some serious progress, passing other cars getting around people and it feels so well mannered. And it's fun. It's just incredibly fun car to drive and you know, blazing orange love this color. So overall, I like it. As far as price on this, you guys, there's no price on my Monroney so I'm gonna have to look it up. All it tells me is that that blazing orange paint cost $395 That is literally the only number that is on here.

Sam Abuelsamid  6:33  
That's, that's did you have the HPT?

Nicole Wakelin  6:37  
Yes, I did. Do you have in front of you, Sam? Yeah, so

Sam Abuelsamid  6:39  
that one starts at 27,008 95. That's, I think that's not including the delivery charge. So it's $1,000. So 20 $29,000, just shy of 29,000,

Nicole Wakelin  6:51  
let's say $29,000. So for $29,000 and the EPA estimated fuel economy combined is 31. That's not bad. You know, it's you get a lot of car for that price. You can spend less but it's not as fun you're feel it feels like it should cost a little bit more about that than that. Honestly, when you say that number say it was like well, I was expecting it to creep over 30 just because of how sporty it is. Now maybe that's partly because like the the one I have, and I doesn't look like it has a good enough pricing. But it doesn't look like there's a lot added on other than the fact that there's that premium exterior color. So you're coming in under 30 It doesn't have like power seats and leather and you know, hand tooled by happy little artisans, you know, wood trim, or whatever. So you don't have some of that stuff for that price. But you know, is a hot little sedan to drive around, especially if you're a bit younger and you're on a budget and you don't need a huge amount of space and a trunk. You don't need all that, you know, extra utility of buying a crossover. I would get this is fun. I like it thumbs up.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:55  
So I haven't driven the regular 22 Civic yet. So I don't have a point of reference. Have you driven the standard version yet? Yes, I

Nicole Wakelin  8:05  
believe I did. But it's been a little while ago, I don't remember i My memory is that this definitely has a sporty er vibe to it, you can feel that sportiness to it. I like the Civic I've been a longtime fan of the Civic though, I mean, styling and things have changed over the years. But I've always felt like the Civic has been a pretty solid option. I owned a couple of civics back in the day. So I clearly like them. I find that you know, Honda makes a good reliable car, they're consistently reliable, they consistently have a good resale value that hasn't changed regardless, you know, of the model year, you know, pretty much it's always you can count on that with Honda. And I feel like the current civic The 22 does the same thing. And this one just gives you that extra little bit a sport I feel like this is the kind of car that you're going to see. Like it's just coming out now. I think it's really just hitting dealerships the SI and I feel like next summer when I drive by the little local car show in our Target parking lot. I'm going to see some of these with unnecessary sport unnecessary spoilers and you know, new wheels and you know, all sorts of lights underneath and I can't wait.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:14  
Yeah, the looking at the specs, the the SI only has more than the standard civic with the 1.5 liter turbo and I'm not sure if you can get that one with if you can get the one five turbo with a manual us apart from the Civic or apart from apart from the Si

Nicole Wakelin  9:36  
Si question I don't know.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:39  
I know they have the they have the sport, which has the it has the two liter the older two liter naturally aspirated engine which is only 156 horsepower. But the the SI or rather the you know the regular version of that one five, you know is is also a really nice engine, I remember the, you know, the previous generation, I drove the SI and, you know, we own a 2017 Civic with that 1.5 Turbo in there. And I found that, you know, the the extra 20 horsepower, so that you get with the SI didn't really make it feel a whole lot quicker. Obviously the you know, the sporty or suspension does make a difference, but it also you pay a price and ride quality. And so, you know, when you live somewhere like Michigan or New Hampshire, you know, that can be a challenge. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why we opted to go with the standard, you know, with a civic e x, instead of, instead of getting, you know, one of the, you know, touring model or the, the SI with the larger, larger wheels, you know that the E x that we have is on 17 inch alloys, whereas, you know, the, the touring, or the sport touring, and even even the, just the base sport that they had, and the previous generation came with 18 inch wheels, lower profile tires. And we've had, you know, I've had to replace a couple of wheels over the years and multiple tires over the years, from potholes and Frosties. So, you know, that's definitely something to consider if you live somewhere where the road conditions at least part of the year are not very good.

Nicole Wakelin  11:29  
Well, and Sam, I actually just dug into Honda's site and pulled up the specs for the 2022 Civic in general. And you said you had what there's like, if you're in the expiratory, you're looking at 180 horsepower, but if you step down to the LX or the sport, it's 100. And

Sam Abuelsamid  11:44  
like, because they have a naturally aspirated two liter,

Nicole Wakelin  11:48  
right? So you get a bigger you'll get a bigger jump. I mean, there's a small jump between the top two trims a larger jump between the lower ones, but also from what I'm seeing, as I'm skating down the sheet, you get to different CVTs, but you get CVTs. I don't see a manual transmission available on this. And when you if you're either on the sport, or the touring, you get little paddle shifters, excuse me. So you can play around a little bit. But you're only going to get a manual transmission. It looks like

Sam Abuelsamid  12:14  
so looks like manuals only on the SI now.

Nicole Wakelin  12:17  
Yes. I don't know about that. There's also the Type R right,

Sam Abuelsamid  12:21  
isn't it? Yeah, the Type R is coming in the spring, I think.

Nicole Wakelin  12:23  
Yeah. So that that one too, right. So probably that too, but not yet.

Sam Abuelsamid  12:28  
Right? Yeah, that that'll definitely have a manual. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin  12:31  
So those will be your two options. If you'd like a manual,

Roberto Baldwin  12:34  
I drove the taurine si at in November for a little while. And it's nice, you know, as a CV, it's a Honda Civic. And that's, that's the thing is you get into a Honda. And you're you close the door, and it has a nice, satisfying thud that you get is like, oh, yeah, this feels like a car that's built by, you know, master craftsmen. You know, it's you know, you're not getting this luxury interior but instead you're getting this incredible build quality. You know, they typically handle a little bit better than their than their their class. Even when you're looking at the taurine. I remember the last the type our last generation that transmission was amazing. The transmission and clutch were just probably perfect, probably the best on the market. But yeah, I drove the Tauri and it was it's nice, it's you know, you're looking for a nice sedan that is going to last for 7000 years that you'll be able to turn around and sell for like $3 less than what you bought bought it for when I bought a used 1990 Honda Civic DX hatchback in 1992. I bought it from the school psychologist. But she ended up selling it to me for like a really, really great deal. And when I went to when I went to to get the loan from the the people were like, Oh, are you sure you're paying this much? I'm like, yeah, they're like, you know, it's weird. This car is worth more now than it was new. This was a night in the early 90s. And yeah, that car bulletproof it was just a bulletproof car and you know, they just continued to make these very bulletproof vehicles and you can't can't go wrong. Civic is what it comes down.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:23  
So I just checked in the civic look, the hatchback, if you get the hatchback, the Civic sport is available with a manual. Ah, there you got only again with that two liter engine 158 horsepower engine. So you can't you can't get the Civic sport with the turret with the one five turbo and a manual, which is unfortunate. So if you want the turbo and the manual, you got to go Si.

Roberto Baldwin  14:48  
Wow. I mean, that's, I mean, that's where the manuals are anyway. Yeah, most of the time. They're only enthusiast vehicles.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:55  
You can get the Civic sport touring. So that's the top AMH level in the in the in the hatchback with the the 180 horsepower engine and the manual. So that's just equivalent to an SI with the hatchback and you know the the advantage with the with the hatchback and this is one of the reasons why we we bought a hatch instead of a sedan is you get that huge opening in the back. And I mean that the Civic Sedan is got a decent sized trunk. But, you know, any of these modern, you know, coupe like sedans, you know, fastback design sedans like the Civic and pretty much everything else. They have a relatively small trunk opening. So if you want to put big stuff in the back, you know, something you find at a yard sale or an estate sale or you know, all your Costco stuff. It's a hassle to get it through that trunk opening. And with the hatchback you get a big trunk opening, you fold the backseat down, you have a huge amount of cargo space back there. It's kind of like having an SUV, but in a car. And it's just it's way more practical than the sedan.

Roberto Baldwin  16:09  
Yeah, I love my hatchback. That was a good car. I shouldn't have sold it. I'm still like kind of sad. I sold that thing.

Sam Abuelsamid  16:16  
Well, yeah, we we've had, we've had the the Civic for over four and a half years gone. It's gonna be five years in April. And the only thing I've had to do to it is oil changes and tire rotations, you know, basically once a year because my wife only drives about 8000 miles a year. Yeah, that's that's all I've had to do it nothing. Nothing else is, you know, and replacing an air filter. Yeah. So just everything else totally perfect. bulletproof. Yep. bulletproof car. All right. Roberto by you.

Roberto Baldwin  16:51  
This week, I was driving the Nissan Pathfinder, which I'm pretty sure you both have already driven Correct. Yes, Nicole really liked it. It is a I feel like it's a nice upgrade for what we had before. I think there's a I'm also the person who remembers when the when the Pathfinder came out. And it was like a four runner that's like a prot like an off road machine. And now I realize now it's like a Chevy Tahoe now it's just you know, it's that's, that's what it feels like. But you know, it is much nicer than it was before. It's comfortable. We drove it around. We went and picked up some very heavy cement turtle. We picked up a very heavy cement turtle for the

Nicole Wakelin  17:32  
turtle what happened to mulch? Robbie, that's

Roberto Baldwin  17:35  
it we needed we need the turtle

Sam Abuelsamid  17:37  
heavier, heavier mulch.

Nicole Wakelin  17:39  
Yes. Just like water spout out of the cement.

Roberto Baldwin  17:42  
No, it's like two sections of a turtle that has a thing where you push to put a bench it's very old, we find it like at an antique place. That my wife really enjoys trying to figure out this just toss them in the

Nicole Wakelin  17:54  
dryer, I will require a picture of sets.

Roberto Baldwin  17:57  
I will I will, I will send you a picture of the cement turtle. Anyway. So yeah, we picked up a very heavy thing with it. It was no problem. It's very nice. It's very comfortable. Everything is where it should be. The infotainment system is fine, which is you know, almost high praise at this point for most infotainment systems. It's good enough. That's fine. Yeah, it's the so I didn't get him in relief with this. I don't I don't know why it's very weird. But the starting price for the for the Pathfinder is 33,680. This one I have the SL all wheel drive which you're gonna get a big truck. If you live anywhere that's not LA and you'd plan on doing anything that involves snow or rain or insert or inclement weather or dirt. You might want to opt for that. Well, I got the SL four wheel drive. It starts at 41 840 it is it's very nice. It's here. It's steering Well, it has the has Nissan's when he caught their drivers. This technology's got some problem. I'll highlight. It says pro pilot but didn't win for the United States. They renamed it pro Pilot Assist. I remember that was a big deal. Because autopilot autopilot was getting so much you know guff for not actually being autopilot. Even though people were like, Well, no, but you know, on a plane. No, no, no, it doesn't matter what's on the technical term for for autopilot. What the what the human race understands autopilot is something that does itself. It does it by itself. Humanity. Yeah, I'd

Sam Abuelsamid  19:31  
like to think I played a small part in that rebranding. Because back in, I think it was about 2017 or so at CES. Carlos gon did a keynote there. And he talked extensively about ProPILOT and kept referring to it as autonomous. Oh, god, yeah, it is way off. No, not not nothing remotely close. And the following week, you know, this is when the The Detroit auto show came the week right after CES. He did a he did a speech there. And, you know, said basically the same thing. And I went to one of the one of the PR people at Nissan and said, Look, guys, you got to stop calling. You got to tell him to stop calling this autonomous because it's it's wrong. It's not it's not autonomous. Yeah. And yeah, they agreed that yeah, we got to stop doing that. And months later when they actually did the the first demo drives pilot for you know, they said, you know, that's when they officially start branding. It is pro Pilot Assist.

Roberto Baldwin  20:40  
Pro Pilot Assist. Yeah, Sam, good job. You know, when it came out, it was actually, a few years ago, it was actually like one of the best in the market. Now it feels a little like it hasn't been upgraded all that much. When it comes to link Lane centering it's feels a little it feels a little a little jagged, a little bit as it's turning and stuff, just just a scooch it's not as smooth as other systems on the market along the same roads that I drive with those with those systems. But no, it's it works fine. It's you know, it didn't have it doesn't do any like insane. You know, I remember earlier systems whenever a car would move out of the way the car would just take off like it's slam the accelerator to you yeah, it doesn't do that like cut ins, it handles cut ins really well. I mean, you know, the, sorry, the lane centering is you know, it's it still works. It's you know, but it's it's it's it feels a little just a little bit more jagged and then some of the other stuff I still think you know, if you're if you're someone who who commutes on a daily basis, you're gonna probably want to get the pro Pilot Assist because it's well it's standard on this vehicle, but you know, it's it's just a little extra something that kind of help you when you after a long day of work and your brains already messed and fried and now you got to drive home Yes, you start to pay attention. But yeah, it does. It does a good job. This vehicle gets that that was the worst segue ever where's the Oh, so it's combined is 23 It's pretty big car for 23 I wish it was better I always wish these large vehicles they could get but you know you're you're essentially driving a billboard they're all big and flat and if we've learned anything, is that automakers can make cars that have a lower drag coefficient because of EVs but they just sometimes don't they just whatever this is what people want this is what it looks like. Suck it Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin  22:55  
Is that the new tagline? Nissan Pathfinder SEC Yeah,

Roberto Baldwin  22:57  
I think it's just all all the big cars I mean anything that's like you know that Ford Bronco Why isn't that a hybrid when it first you know this first year? I know why I know marketing I know reasoning there I go listen to much gas ones and the next year will show it hybrid and sell much of those. Okay, I get it I understand but at the same time 23 Miles is you know for a big car like that it's fine but it's also

Sam Abuelsamid  23:16  
a better than that Tahoe I was driving last week that got the Tahoe like 17 Oh, wow. Ah it's 17 but it got about 12

Roberto Baldwin  23:25  
I you know, I drove it um, most it's been mostly on the highway with a few things and picking up giant concrete turtles. And I think my combined is about I'm trying my brain 21 point I just say 22 So 22 So it's pretty it's it's pretty on par with what you would expect Yeah, no, it's it is a very nice comfortable vehicle there's there's lots of room I have not tried to sit in the third row I typically don't do that much anymore just because it just don't fit and I look back they're like yeah, I'm not gonna fit. So you know, most started rows are still for tiny children. But is Yeah, I think you know, Nissan, you know, after years of just sort of being out in the wilderness they they're still like battling their way back and I think this Pathfinder is is a is a good sign of what's to come from from the automaker, so good on them for the $41,840 Pathfinder SL. I'm sure the one I have cost more, but I don't I don't know. It is she, I don't know.

Sam Abuelsamid  24:30  
It is a huge improvement over the old one, which, you know, was kind of, yeah, it was kind of all to look at and it was dull and

Roberto Baldwin  24:37  
janky Yeah, yeah,

Nicole Wakelin  24:39  
I think they this one looks just looks so much better. I know people will say like, I'm really into looks like hard, but you look at it all the time. You see it sitting in your driveway, you're sitting in this Yeah. You're looking at that thing all the time. And this one does look better. Done. What's the way they do the spacing now for the letters on the back like instead of Pathfinder? There's a word for what that's called. It is

Roberto Baldwin  25:00  
kerning kerning other letters kerning?

Nicole Wakelin  25:02  
Is that what it kerning? Is? I like the kerning of the letters. Yeah,

Roberto Baldwin  25:06  
kerning or leading? That's horrible. I'm a design. I have a design degree. And I had like two classes of typography. And I can't remember if it's kerning or leading, anyway. Yeah. And

Nicole Wakelin  25:18  
then I'm just gonna go with my, my business major thing, the way they spaced the letters. Looks cool. There. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin  25:23  
It does look very nice. Yeah, it doesn't look, I feel like a lot of people are making their, their their names so large that looks out of place on the vehicle when it comes to, to branding. But no, no, it actually it looks nice. It fits well, with, with with the back of the vehicle. So

Sam Abuelsamid  25:40  
yeah, I think, you know, one of the best things about this new Pathfinder, and also the Infiniti QX 60, is if you are going to use those third rows, the way that they've set up the second row seats, so they they pivot from the front. So when you release it to get into the third row, it's not just the the seat folding down, and then sliding forward, the whole seat, the rear seat, the second row seat back stays in place, and the whole thing just tilts up and forward. So if you have car seats, in those second rows, you don't have to take out the car seat, you can leave the car seat in place, and the whole thing just chips forward. And you actually have pretty good access to that third row I, you know, I have climbed into that third row and, you know, it's not somewhere I would want to take a long road trip. But, you know, going across town, you know, even you know, going, you know, a half hour drive, you know, I can sit in there comfortably, you know, I have enough headroom and enough knee room, that you know, I can I can reasonably sit in there, you know, to get you know, three couples going up to dinner or something like I can take that role.

Roberto Baldwin  26:49  
You can put not a big rig regular sized people in the back for for short distances. And okay, a second we're gonna we're going into steakhouse on the back

Nicole Wakelin  26:59  
seat, the way that it moves like that it doesn't just move forward it like the tip and slide thing not having to remove a car seat. I remember that being such a colossal pain in the butt. When my kids were little that if you needed to get anything, get an adult in the back or even just get another kid into the back that you had, it was like Okay, I gotta take this car seat out. I gotta hold the car seat to me climb in the back of the car getting good. Okay, put the car seat back in the car. It was a hassle. It doesn't sound like a big deal. And suddenly, you're balancing a kid in one arm and a giant car seat in the other because you can't, you can't do both. You just be able to like do that and let the kids hop in back in if they can buckle buckle or buckle them in. Oh my gosh, that is like, that is such a cool feature. It's one of those things I look at now. I'm like, Why didn't nobody do this years ago cuz this is super cool.

Roberto Baldwin  27:46  
It's like one of those chairs that you get when you're when you have difficulty standing up, they have chairs that lifts you up. Yeah, it's like that, except for so you don't have to like fly with the car seats and stuff or anything you have in that seat is just sort of like almost like an ejector chairs.

Sam Abuelsamid  28:06  
Alright, speaking of good looks, I had a car that lacks that

maybe maybe to an alien from another planet? Um, I'm not aware of any any earth born humans that would consider it that but no, it is. It is the the 2022 Toyota Prius Prime, which is an outstanding vehicle for fuel economy and efficiency it is, as Priuses have been, you know, for more than two decades, you know, it, it is remarkably efficient. I can cannot argue with that. And in this current generation of the Prius, and particularly the Prius Prime, it's also really hard to look at. I have never, you know, the current gen Prius, you know, the, the platform that they put on the new platform is way better to drive than any of the previous generations of Prius, you know, I remember, you know, a decade or so ago, driving the original, the first generation Prius plug in hybrid that was based off the third gen. Prius so this was like 2010 2011 timeframe. And that car had a relatively small battery for a plug in hybrid and nominally you know, they said it could go 11 miles on electricity, but it didn't really have enough electrical power to drive on electricity alone. So it was always kind of blended. And that thing just felt so leaden and dull. This one doesn't you know, it's got the same same platform architecture that's used for the the current Corolla McHenry and it's actually quite quite pleasant to drive in that respect. You know, it's got decent driving dynamics and decent steering and everything. You know, if you can get past the, the weird looks of this thing, particularly the, you know, the prime takes the the standard Prius, you know and kind of exaggerates some of the stuff. You know, it's got some some weird elements like the rear hatch, the glass in the rear hatch is actually got it. It's a compound curve. And you can you can see it a little bit when you're looking at the rearview mirror, you can see just a little bit of distortion. There's not too bad, but it's it's kind of peculiar looking. The prime adds a bigger battery to the, to the Prius. And it's nominally rated at 25 miles of electric driving range, which is not bad. Yeah, not. So. Not great. You know, if, if you want a Toyota plug in hybrid and actually want to use do to do more electric driving with it, I would definitely recommend the rav4 prime over this thing.

Roberto Baldwin  31:00  
You know, yeah, the rav4 prime. Much better. Yeah, you know, everything about the rav4 prime is better than the Prius, right? You can

Sam Abuelsamid  31:07  
easily get 40 miles of electric driving a, you know, on a charge with the rav4. This one, you get 25 I had to go somewhere, you know, that was a highway drive the other day, and I got about 22 miles driving on the highway before Oh, that's good engine came out. Yeah, so better, better than I expected, you know, around town, you can probably do closer to about 27, maybe 28 miles, which is what I've done the previous time, I've had a Prius Prime. The, the other main differences from the standard Prius are the infotainment system. One thing to, you know, the all Priuses primer otherwise still have that center mounted, long narrow cluster. And so instead of the gauges being in front of you where they belong, they're off to one side in the middle of the dashboard, which I've always thought was a little

Roberto Baldwin  32:00  
bizarre wrong, it's a little wrong.

Sam Abuelsamid  32:04  
But and so they're still there. But the the prime has a bigger infotainment display, I think it's an 11 inch 10 or 11 inch display, and it's a portrait orientation display as opposed to the smaller landscape display that's in the regular presses. And it it's still an older version using an older version of Toyota's Entune infotainment system. But with a unique interface that is not like any other Toyota, it does not have support for Android Auto, it does support Apple CarPlay. But it doesn't support Android Auto. They never they never updated this, I think partly because the Prius is reaching the end of its current model lifecycle. And they decided it wasn't worth and also sales of Priuses have been declining for a number of years now. They probably felt it wasn't worth the investment to make the the upgrade to add Android Auto compatibility to it. So it's CarPlay only. The one I have is the Limited trim. So it actually does have a heads up display. So even though the instruments are off to one side, you know the stuff you really need is out in front of you anyway, so that's good, not that big a deal. It's the the front seats are heated and trimmed in soft Tex which is Toyota's branding for their full leather. You know, it's fine, it's not I wouldn't call it luxurious, but it's got the the usual array of Driver Assist features that you'll find standard on increasing number of cars but especially on all Toyota's now, so it's got radar adaptive cruise control, lane keeping assist, they actually call it Lane tracing assist, the blind spot monitoring, Departure Alert, all that all the usual stuff. So that's that's good. Even, you know, when it's operating in hybrid mode once once you've depleted the battery operating in hybrid mode, it's rated at 54 miles per gallon. Right now. The car I'm driving is showing an overall average since I started I reset it when I started showing an overall average of about 80 miles per gallon because a significant portion of that was on electricity alone. And it calculates it based on total miles divided or total total miles divided by the number of gallons you've used and for you know a decent chunk of that there was no gallons used. So the you know, the Prius Prime you there's it's eligible for it's a $4,500 federal tax credit because it's a plug in hybrid. And the the one that I'm driving, as I said is the limited and it prices up prices priced out at processor. See the Ms. $35,284. So you can you know, after after the tax credit, you're looking about 31 grand for this get about 25 miles of electric range. And if you're, you know, if you're not, you know, if the sight of a Prius doesn't make you want to hurl. It's such a good deal.

Roberto Baldwin  35:31  
It's never been a pretty car. And they know everyone talks about how it's not pretty and they're like, whatever. Yeah, I just liked it. Like, whatever, we're gonna make it the way it is. And you're gonna buy it and for years is that that's exactly what happened is we're gonna make it the way it is. It has this really nice hybrid system. And you're gonna buy it anyway. And people did. And so, you know, I guess kudos.

Sam Abuelsamid  35:55  
Biggest problem that Toyota's got now is they've got really good hybrid, the same really good hybrid drive system in most of the vehicles they sell. And so you know, if you want Prius fuel economy, and you no longer need to tolerate toy Hey, the Prius looks at CSL I mean, there's nearly a quarter of rap force sold now are hybrids and the rav4 is really best vehicle. And that's a lesson in Europe. It's, it's over it's almost 55% of rav4 sales in Europe are hybrids now. Yeah, the rav4 is, yeah, you know, and you can get the same the same powertrain that's in the Prius, you can get that in a Corolla you can get you know, basically the same thing in the in the Camry you can get it in a Highlander and a Ciana they all look 100% better. Yeah, so there's not there's not a lot of reason to buy a Prius anymore. And Prius sales have been declining steadily for several years now. And I, you know, we'll see if they if they bring out a new generation of Prius or not, you know, I don't know that there's really a nice reason for the Prius to exist anymore.

Nicole Wakelin  37:05  
Oh, you think they get rid of it? I mean, it's like how could you?

Roberto Baldwin  37:09  
They should make the Prius their new convertible lineup. It's just like, just throw everyone off just like yeah, now a Prius is a convertible like wait, what? Yeah,

Nicole Wakelin  37:16  
like it's gonna be like the new Prius will be something like mas like the Miata tiny little two door

Roberto Baldwin  37:21  
Yeah, little person little it'd be a little plug in hybrid was like, a mountain range. And you're like

Nicole Wakelin  37:28  
36 will be rebranded to be their new hybrid now. Oh,

Roberto Baldwin  37:31  
you can do the GRE? Oh, sure. I have a question. When you back up. And this, Kurt, this version of the Prius, does the beep is it happened inside the car for no reason. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid  37:46  
That's not inside of the feature. Yes, it doesn't anymore.

Nicole Wakelin  37:51  
To be like, What did anybody feel like you always ask interesting questions when you talk. Did anybody ever say Well, the reason we did this was like, Oops, I forgot I put my car in reverse.

Roberto Baldwin  38:03  
I had to shoot I shot a video with the Prius Prime when it first came out. And I was I'm like, it's not just me, right? This is inside the car. We close the car. It's like, see, see see

Nicole Wakelin  38:15  
a movie. It's like the call is coming from within the car. The beep is coming from inside the car.

Roberto Baldwin  38:22  
Our friends bought one and they bought a Prius Prime. And you know they liked it for its fuel economy. But they said it just drove like, and the backing up thing was droving. They went they bought they got an Outback.

Nicole Wakelin  38:35  
She thought I was lying. It was just a friend. Like you would lie about that back in the car. And I'm like, I just like did a quick payday short video. And I'm like, here you go in the car, put the car in reverse Listen, beep, beep beep There you go.

Sam Abuelsamid  38:47  
It doesn't doesn't do the beep. In fact, I don't think it doesn't even do the beep beep on the outside anymore. I don't think that's so weird double check that but it definitely doesn't do it inside the car. So now you have to, you know, your only indication that you're in reverse Is that you, you know, you see that fuzzy image from the rear backup camera on the display. That's that's, that's another thing that the, the quality of the backup camera and the Prius, especially compared to so many modern cars now. So many modern cars have a, you know, really sharp, crisp, you know, high resolution display from the backup camera. And the Prius, you know, you've probably heard about people complained about the the webcams on Apple MacBooks how terrible they are. Yeah, this is worse. I mean, it's it's really bad. I mean, you can see what's there but just barely, you know, it's it's not it's not a good camera.

Roberto Baldwin  39:38  
So we should we should have a new price and what two years.

Sam Abuelsamid  39:41  
I would say if there's gonna be one coming, it'll probably be within the next two years. Yeah, cuz I think the current one came out in 2015. So yeah, that sounds Yeah. All right long cycle time cycle life.

Roberto Baldwin  39:54  
Yeah, we should have a new Prius and hopefully it'll have Android Auto for those who use Android and don't have The backup camera that's not from a droid smartphone from 10 years ago.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:08  
It'll mean from from one of these

Roberto Baldwin  40:09  
drawers. Yeah, exactly. For one of those just tried a little flop out. Slide up display with the little key physical keyboard underneath. Yeah, well yeah, that is weird. Like, what do we where does the Prius go after? After being what it was and now everything is what it was every all the technology that made the Prius the Prius is now permitted the rest of the chatter lineup. So now what

Sam Abuelsamid  40:34  
and you know, it's not like you can really transition to EVs, because you've you've already got those coming to you. And they've got different branding, the BZ branding for their EVs. So what do you do with Prius?

Roberto Baldwin  40:45  
should have kept it, they should have just kept the Prius, they should have made the Prius like, always the next generation vehicle, then Prius would be the next. Evie. The Prius would be the next, you know?

Sam Abuelsamid  40:55  
Yeah, I mean, can I transition to being the fuel cell car? Yeah, yeah, instead of variety could have called a Prius.

Roberto Baldwin  41:01  
Right? Like so much better than the Prius? Yeah. Right. It's such a it's so much nicer than the Prius, both inside and out and comfort wise. And, I mean, you can't drive it anywhere, but when you can, it's really great.

Sam Abuelsamid  41:18  
Okay, let's see. What have we got on the Oh, last week after we stopped recording news came out about the BMW XM and then we talked about that at some length but we didn't have we didn't record that. So what do you think of the XL? Well, first, what is the XM?

Nicole Wakelin  41:40  
Isn't it a radio station?

Roberto Baldwin  41:42  
So Sirius and XM merged a few years ago and Okay, so the XM so I went down to LA and I went to a little room where they took my phone and my camera and all that. And they showed me the BMW XM and the XM is the only the second M only car that BMW M division has ever created. There was the M one back 50 years ago. And now the exam and one was this nice like sedan sport car room. The exam is a very large SUV. See there's that that will doesn't have a room because it's a you know, a well it does have the room. What am I talking about? It has is a plug in hybrid. It is a very large it has it does have room as is a very large SUV. And it has a well they say they want it to be a more expressive luxury in cars. And so they went bonkers on the XM. The out sighs one way of putting it. Yes, it is very much like almost like papercraft like this like origami. Yeah, it's it's got this very, like very, these sharp edges all around it on the x side. It has the giant grill as you would expect from from BMW because they don't care what anyone says. They're gonna they're sticking with the giant grill. What's nice is that it the grill itself. It the outline it lights up. So you can have a giant grill coming at you it kind of looks like two bucks floating in the air.

Sam Abuelsamid  43:22  
Even nobody misses it. Even in the dark. You can't forget how big that grill is.

Roberto Baldwin  43:26  
You cannot forget how large the BMW XM squirrel

Nicole Wakelin  43:30  
is weird and as unique as different is in your face and origami like as it is on the outside. The inside, it's inside, inside

Roberto Baldwin  43:39  
inside look calm. So they're giving us a presentation. And they say the the idea the internal codename for this car was Rockstar. And they that was essentially their north star that was their guiding light. So the front of the vehicle has this very plush brown leather. It feels very like it feels very much like something Steven Tyler would wear. Maybe while singing dream on in front of 1000s and 1000s of people then the back seat is this. So the front seat is like the stage. That's where the performance happens. This is these are things that BMW told me. The back seat is the back. It's the backstage and when they when they when they rationalization for Yeah, so when they told me all that I'm like, Oh, that makes all the sense in the world. It makes perfect sense. When you when you put it into that context. That is it is yeah, it's front stage and backstage backstage has velvet, like the rear seats. So it's a blue velvet and then the the the seats are blue, the floor is green ish. The top has a very, almost like again, like papercraft but like peaks and valleys and it has lights that come in from the side and the lights change colors. So it's Like, it's like this little artsy fartsy thing that's going on, and I call it in my article on TechCrunch. Do Hold on. It's David Lee Roth on four wheels. David Lee Roth, for those who are not unaware was the lead singer of Van Halen back in the day back when they were awesome. Not when they had Sammy Hagar when they were lame, but back when they were awesome. David Lee Roth is a very larger than life individual. He is essentially the epitome of an 80s rock star, he would come out he would do like like karate kicks. He had long, curly hair. He would essentially like if he if it make love to the camera while singing. He is the quintessential 80s rock star. And that is exactly what they built. They built they took a they looked at I'm sure they just had a big poster of David Lee Roth in Germany and they're like how do we make this and then we got it.

Nicole Wakelin  45:58  
I think of I think it's Russell Brand.

Roberto Baldwin  46:01  
Oh, so I called the back seat the Russell Brand's lounge. Okay, two brands bedroom page.

Nicole Wakelin  46:06  
Like I think it was like this is what Russell Brand's house would look like if we all Yeah, it is yes. This is Russell it's the Russell Brand of car so the backseat. Wow, we actually thought the same yeah, see? Yeah, so yeah, that was so that poster was right next to David Lee raw. Yes. In Germany like right

Roberto Baldwin  46:24  
there because Russell Brand is really a rock stars are just just

Nicole Wakelin  46:28  
like, Star kind of kind of smarmy kind of like street he's

Roberto Baldwin  46:32  
got all the rock star stuff. But the actual street cred of singing and performing rock star

Nicole Wakelin  46:39  
like this car it has all the Rockstar stuff but does it any have any rock stars? That really so there we go. We've reinforced the Russell Brand dish SNESs of

Roberto Baldwin  46:49  
that. So it has a V eight it's a VA it's a VA with a hybrid. It has one of my numbers here we go as a plug in hybrid and a push up 750 horsepower, 737 pound feet of torque. It has it's going to have an Eevee only range are targeting 30 Miles EPA range. Evie, which is better than the Prius so better than the Prius Prime more powerful than the Prius Prime and more insane than anything else that's on the road. And they really wanted something for people who are extroverts, people who are like, look at me, look at me, you know, the the fellows that drives the Lamborghini to the club, and but they never actually take it to the track or outside of LA, you know, it's always driving under 60 miles an hour. So those folks, but they want more leg room, they you know, they they were when asked about cross shopping like what is the person who's buying this what else are they looking at? And they're like, well they're not really looking at like a like cross shop as you would like you know CRV versus rav4 They're looking at these very larger than life vehicles so they were talking about the odious and they talked about the G Wagen. So they essentially looked at those two cars was like hold my beer and they just went the next level they just went for it and

Sam Abuelsamid  48:07  
so it looks to me you know looking at this thing like they contracted out the design to man sorry

Roberto Baldwin  48:14  
maybe I mean

Sam Abuelsamid  48:17  
the designers the impression I get is that or at least they took strong inspiration from you know, the vehicles that man story builds and for those not familiar with man story, you know back when there was still a Geneva Auto Show, you know this I think they're Swiss if I'm not mistaken. Probably they take you know vehicles from other companies and they customize them they pick their rides. Yeah, they pick the rides

Nicole Wakelin  48:43  
and really really pimp the ride for crazy

Sam Abuelsamid  48:49  
this this looks like something that man story would have created. It does.

Roberto Baldwin  48:54  
You're right that sounds right right and yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  48:56  
this is coming as a production version of this is coming about a year from now it's supposed to go into production late 2022 BMW Spartanburg plant first of all, size wise you know, where does this fit relative to like the x five and the X seven and how much of this is do you expect is going to carry over to the production model I think I think clearly the the body shape is probably going to be pretty much carry over but how much of this interior design

Roberto Baldwin  49:29  
they is conveyed told me that overall it's 90% of what we'll see in production. It's pretty much there. There's a few things that they like they had like these very they have these like dark glass over the over the the license plate and stuff. They're like, Oh, we can't do stuff like that. There's like little things that they can't do because of regulatory issues. That they're gonna Yeah, they're gonna they're going to get rid of but I think a lot of it is going to stick and I think they are the velvet Elvis backseats i that Valve they made such a big deal about There's no way that's going to go away. That has to stick around. And I, I think the I think that for the people, for the folks who are that they built this for, they're going to like it. They're going to look at this and be like, yeah, yeah, this is exactly what I want. The rest of us are gonna be like, Oh, this is a little too much. Like it like, like, we're like hanging out with Russell Brand. It's a little bit too much or hanging out with David diamond. Dave diamond. David's amazing. I don't want to hang out with diamond David Lee Roth. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin  50:29  
You know what, that is a thing. Like for the right? Like, for 99.9% of humanity? No, but for that point, 1% This car is gonna be so

Roberto Baldwin  50:41  
on. Yeah, it's gonna be it'd be so unplanned. And two points that

Nicole Wakelin  50:45  
they're gonna have this car is one of their multitude of cars, and their friends are gonna get it and go, Oh, my gosh, this is like totally amazing.

Roberto Baldwin  50:52  
Yeah, people are gonna love it. Yes, people are going to love this vehicle. And the people who should love it will will likely love you're gonna sit in the backseat and be like, Oh, my God, this is amazing. And the rest of us are just gonna, like look at it from afar, and maybe it'll go on Instagram, because it looks so much it looks different from anything else. You know, it's still it's still very much a BMW, but it's very different from a BMW. And it's Yeah, yeah. When they showed it to us, we were like, Oh, okay. Yeah, so we'll see, we'll see how it does. I mean, maybe they're only gonna sell like, you know, 2000 a year? Who knows? But if that's what they think they want to sell, then I forgot to ask how many they want to sell.

Sam Abuelsamid  51:31  
But they only they only built about 450 or so M ones in total? Yeah. So it was a pretty rare car. I'm not sure. You know, Mercedes AMG, you know, for the last decade has had, you know, dedicated models that weren't part of the standard, you know, the current versions of Mercedes vehicles. You know, they've got the GT, you know, the Ford GT, they had the SLS before. And, you know, those don't sell in huge numbers. But, you know, I would expect, you know, that, they'll probably be able to, you know, move at least at least 1000, maybe 2000 of these things. Yeah. You know, in certain markets.

Roberto Baldwin  52:13  
Yeah. I you know, and it's funny, because, because BMW is a very, it's a very conservative conch company. Like, you know, when, when it comes to a lot of stuff, they're like, whoa, we don't know about that. We don't you know, about things. And the idea that the board just told them to go nuts was and that's what they like, and they did this do what you like, sort of like, do what you want. Have a good time. And they're like, Alright, cool. They did it. Just go.

Nicole Wakelin  52:45  
We want to use velvet. How about it, boys?

Roberto Baldwin  52:49  
Yeah, so anyway, yeah, the accent I you know, right now, we're all like, but I telling you in 20 years at a Cars and Coffee, when there's like one of these the thing everyone's gonna crowd around it, you're gonna take pictures and be like, Oh, remember this weird car, all the people on Twitter who like this is the ugliest thing ever. They're gonna be losing, you know, again, in 2025 years, they're gonna be at the cars and coffee, taking pictures and pretending like they loved it from the beginning. That's I mean, that's Yeah,

Nicole Wakelin  53:16  
even though we hated it, that'll be rubbish. Like, yeah, I got one of these. I always,

Roberto Baldwin  53:20  
I don't hate it. I know exactly what I know who it's for. And I really want to drive one. But I don't want one. It's too it's a little too much. But it is very much like when you say Rockstar, and I look at it, and you look at all the things like oh yeah, this is this is exactly what this is.

Sam Abuelsamid  53:38  
Okay, next up, the Toyota gr 86, which we have in its incarnations, with either Toyota or Subaru BRC badges. And we've all been very enthusiastic about since it was launched a few months ago. It's going on sale in Europe. But looks like it's only going to have a two year model run in the EU. So you know, for customers that want one, you better get one now because after that, it will not be available, at least not in its current form because of tightening emission standards in Europe. The current, you know, the current version with a 2.4 liter box or four cylinder just won't be able to meet the new regulations. So don't go get one now. Yeah, I think they talked about his Subaru or Toyota talked about doing a hybrid version of the BRC or gr 86

Roberto Baldwin  54:38  
I haven't heard anything. I haven't heard anything about it. I feel like it's gonna be a tough you know, it's already on its own. You know, it's got its make building that into that platform and still keeping the driving dynamics the GR 86 in the BRC is probably going to be tough because you're gonna throw, you know, throw a lot of like weight in there and I think this is such a low, you know, it's kind of a low yield vehicle to begin with. So I don't think they're going to do a lot of work on making the GR 86. A hybrid for a lot of, you know, a lot of money to make a car that doesn't sell. That only sells to enthusiasts. The only sells a 20 year old kids and us. And see. Yeah, I mean, it'd be nice, but yeah, I don't. Yeah. So two years get on it. People in the EU.

Sam Abuelsamid  55:30  
Okay. Pollstar had an event in New York this week, they showed off it. See, they showed off a camouflaged version of the Pole Star Three, which is the next product they've got coming out. And they also talked a little bit about the next two follow on models after that. So the Pole Star Three is coming out, again, about a year from now should be up later in 2022. And then the Pole Star for it. And the Pole Star Three is a larger performance crossover that's based on the same platform as the next generation of the Volvo XC 90, which is coming out around the same time. The three is going to be built in South Carolina at the same plant where Volvo's currently building cars. And then the floor will be a smaller crossover coupe thing, which it sounds like they haven't given a lot of detail, but it sounds like it may be based on the same platform as the Pole Star two in the Volvo XC 40. So the Volvo car group, compact modular architecture. And then the Pole Star five, coming in 22 of the four is coming in 23. The five is coming in 2024. And that's going to be a high performance sedan, which I think is going to share the platform with the three. And that's going to be basically a production version of the precept, the Pollstar precept concept they showed last year. So what do you have to take a look at the the Pole Star Three and you know, any thoughts on the site?

Roberto Baldwin  57:13  
I saw the QR code looking vehicle. It does look like a QR. Yeah, like I click on it, and it gives me the menu of like the local Mexican restaurant that I love to go to. Him I just have Swedish meatballs. I have a funny story. I can't say on the radio section on the podcast. I'll tell you, I'll tell you all later. I'm so sorry audience that I can't tell you this because it would get someone in a lot of trouble. But um, yeah, no, I mean, I like to pull stars. I like to pull star one. It's just this weird, wacky halo car that they built and it was fun to drive the Pole Star to I know it has that giant that really high. Solar Galleria, you go and put your arm on the window. And it looks like the three does as well. Yeah. But I think it's it's a I really liked that. I loved driving that car. And then you know, there's the Pole Star and, and Volvo. This is a weird thing to say. But they're a regenerative braking. They're 111 Pedal driving is like the best in the business. It's just like, you'd let your foot out like the first, like, within three intersections are like, Oh, I got this. This makes so much sense. Yeah, I think you know, I think this is, you know, the evolution of this brand. It's sort of weird though, because it was very much like Pollstar is the performance Evie brand? I think maybe they were like, Let's do that. Before they decided oh, by the way, we're gonna make everything and Volvo an Eevee. So I think the three from the from the forearm, they really have to start sort of differentiating themselves from Volvo. Because it gets pretty tough to be like, oh, yeah, you can get the Pulsar two, or you can get the XC 40, which has just as much power. And it has a little bit more room and it looks a little bit more.

Sam Abuelsamid  58:59  
It looks conventional,

Roberto Baldwin  59:01  
conventional. Yeah. But then that said, I've seen a lot of Pollstar twos in the Bay Area recently, like a lot like someone actually sent me a message who lives here and like, I've been seen a lot of Pollstar twos. So they, they're on to something. I think they're, you know, I think I've seen more of those. And I've seen the XC 40. So maybe, maybe people want something different, which is good.

Sam Abuelsamid  59:18  
Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. Especially in your area there that, you know, you look around the, you know, Tesla Model threes are everywhere. Oh, yeah. It's like, it's the Silicon Valley. You know, Camry now it is

Roberto Baldwin  59:32  
it's, it's like an All Stars, all birds. You got an all pair of all birds in the model three. That's how that's that's that's the Bay Area.

Sam Abuelsamid  59:40  
Yeah. So I can I can imagine some people say, okay, everybody's got a model three or model Y. I'm going to get something different. And, you know, San Jose was one of the first places where Pollstar opened up one of their dealerships. So it would make sense that there'd be a fair number of them in that area. Yeah, they have

Roberto Baldwin  1:00:01  
a they have a showroom in the same Mall as lucid. Yeah, so yeah, it's it's a fun. It's a fun world up here in the Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. I mean, I like the XC 90 A lot. I think, you know if pulsar can sort of, like, tweak it a little bit, so it's a little bit more, there's then Yeah, more, I think it's, they're gonna do, they're gonna do well as you know, sort of a small player and, and in large, increasingly larger Evie pond.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:00:35  
But, you know, looking at this, you know, this photo that they released, you know, I like the proportions of it, you know, it's got a nice, athletic stance to it, you know, it's got big wheels and, you know, some fairly pronounced haunches, especially in the rear quarters. It like, you know, most for increasing the number of SUVs now, you know, it's got the same sort of shape to the side glass where it sweeps up at the back of the C pillar. You know, which is fine. But, you know, overall, you know, the, the shape looks really good. And I think it'll, if you know, if the Pole Star twos and indigo buys should be very fun car to drive to.

Roberto Baldwin  1:01:15  
It's a bit like the ionic five where the picture you're like, oh, okay, well, this is like, it looks small. I'm sure it looks smaller and a picture and it doesn't real life. Because it looks rather looks like a compact. It looks like a like a quick little like a quick little subcompact like SUV, right? It's the same thing as the XC nine you're like, oh, okay, well, yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01:35  
I mean, just the same as probably sitting on 21 or 22 inch wheels. So it makes it look smaller than it is.

Roberto Baldwin  1:01:43  
It's so that's that's the new trick to make things look smaller.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01:47  
Big wheels, big wheels,

Roberto Baldwin  1:01:49  
big whales.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:01:51  
Alright, I think that's all the news items we've got for this week. We've got some, some listener emails and questions. So let's start off with Jakob Nimoy is written in numerous times in the past. And Jakob sent us a fairly long email, in response to our previous conversation about using a phone as a key. So I'll go through this here, as listening to you talk about what it's really whether it's about if it's really worth it to unlock your car with your phone, or if keys really are that much of a hassle. And I thought I'd share my personal vision, how this is supposed to work and why we as customers might want these features. When it comes down to comes to modern cars, the best experience is a seamless one. Most folks don't want to go anywhere without their phone. So in my opinion, the best experiences where you just walk up to your car, open the door, the car recognize you by your phone moves the seat into place, maybe uses some biometrics all inside the car logs into the infotainment into your user profile, and automatically provides wireless CarPlay or Android Auto as well. The driver just needs to put the car into gear and drive. This is effectively the only action you need to take in order to drive. In order to drive essentially you get in and go. Some cars on the market already do some of these things. And my prediction is we'll see a lot more of the standard across the board. Plus when you think how enabling it is for folks who wear outfits that don't have a good place to carry any keys, the complete use of these benefits are complete, complete, complete ease of use benefits everyone while quietly adding accessibility. If you compare that to the other brands like OXO Good Grips, that kind of fundamental design is the gold standard for making tools useful for as many folks as possible. It's not that we didn't get used to carrying car keys. It's just that things fundamentally changed when you take away one thing that folks always had to carry them with, to carry with them. Still for this to work. Technically the phone in the car have to connect directly plays a smartwatch. Perhaps the smartwatch can operate as a backup. Likewise, there needs to be manual way to get in, which is where biometrics might become increasingly might become interesting. Technically, when I rented a renomia. John, once traveling in Israel, you find some interesting older vehicles still in rental fleets. Compared to the US, this car came with a plastic box of a key above the size of a Walkman, what you inserted into the center console, like a CD cartridge setup, that thing was bulky. Moreover, every car in Israel has a five button keypad installed, where you enter in a code to unlock the starter. This is where this is because of the very high rate of car theft there. When I drove it. When I dropped it off at a different location than where I got it. The folks at the desk had to ask me for the code because they don't keep it on file online between locations. There are a lot of non US markets where this kind of system could significantly help solve other problems as well. Basically, keys aren't the problem but when carmakers get these systems to work reliably, or not having keys will really change things for the better. So let me say a couple things first so the five button keypad that's actually a common thing in Europe basically a mobilizers to disable the the starter especially in the UK, they're very common because they have a lot of car theft as well. His comments about you know being seamless and the phone needing to connect directly to the car you know, you know what also connects directly to your car keys key fob doesn't need to go through the cloud. I

Roberto Baldwin  1:05:29  
mean, I understand that the desire because we want everything we want our phones to be everything, but also I thought the carry car keys so that extra one extra key isn't like I don't have all every car key on one key ring. Like I have a key ring for each car key. And the only car key that's on my main keys is the BRC like the Jaguar has its own sits by itself the Hyundai sits by itself because I don't drive those cars as often. But that having that that that that Subaru key on there isn't really that big of a pain in the ass because all my other keys are there. I have to get back into my house. I only just

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:07  
have like the car key on me like because I just I don't know it's not that big of a deal and carrying one and carrying weight maybe it's because I'm always carrying press keys, you know, and just have this Yeah, revolving assortment of keys and have to throw it up on top of the shelf in case it's blocking somebody in in my driveway. You know, but I I don't mind carrying a key it's not that

Roberto Baldwin  1:06:31  
I also think the card the card like I think was it Tesla has the little card that you get a card. Yeah, the secret I think those are fine as well. Because it's a small car you put in your wall, you put in your purse, you can put in your your whatever,

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:42  
those are nice because theoretically, you know, like, if I lose my, or if I'm someplace in my car key, my key fob gets wet, I could screw it up in my little, my little credit card situation. And she's great.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:55  
For the I pace they you can get like this. It's like

Roberto Baldwin  1:07:00  
I couldn't get it to work, but you can get it.

Nicole Wakelin  1:07:03  
Like it didn't work. But I

Roberto Baldwin  1:07:05  
was surfing for this, but I couldn't get it to work reliably. And I'm like, I'm not going surfing and then leave with the Jaguar. And then suddenly I can't get back into the Jaguar. Now I don't have a phone. You know, just step outside of this Jaguar like a like an idiot. But yeah, like the NFC stuff. I think those work really well. I think the the phones I mean, if it works well it does. That's great. But these phones are so when when we change them out all the time, people don't remove their information from their phone when they trade it in, you know, you lose your you know, you don't put your car keys down as much as you put your phone down, like in a restaurant. I was going through TSA this weekend and someone that left their phone in the little bowl. And I was just like, yeah, that person is going to have a bad time and about five minutes. Yeah, right. I know that they mean that we're we're attached our phones like there's there's no tomorrow, but we are also you know, we trade them out pretty often. And I'm always like my in my brain. I'm always concerned about like the, okay, well, I've traded in my iPhone. And as someone gets your iPhone, they can look oh, this is where they live. Oh, and this is where their car is. So yeah, as opposed to a key. We're like, well, I got to drive around and just keep pushing the button. And next to every Subaru in the state. Or I have this key fob. You know, if you have a Tesla, I have to drive around with this NFC Card and just keep running up to try to open them. Yeah, I It's i Yeah. I mean, I understand the desire and it's, it's cool when it works. But at the same time I'm like

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:37  
I totally agree with Jakob that the the experience should be as seamless as possible. Oh, yeah. You know, my wife, for example. You know, she drives the Civic most of the time. And she just leaves the key in her purse. Yeah, because she takes her purse, whenever she goes out, go somewhere. And it's got her phone, it's got her key fob in there. And when she walks up to the car, it automatically unlocks she just grabs the handle and it's unlocked. And when she walks away from the car when she gets more than when you get more than four or five feet away from the car, click it locks, so you don't have to mess with anything. It It's there on her all the time anyway. And you know to what Jakob said here you know, but you know, you know, different outfits that that people have, you know, it's like you know what's usually smaller than most people's phones. The key fob Yeah,

Roberto Baldwin  1:09:30  
phones are so I can't like I can't comfortably sit down for a long time with my phone in my pocket.

Nicole Wakelin  1:09:35  
I always take my phone

Roberto Baldwin  1:09:37  
down at a restaurant. I'm like I gotta get this out of my plop you can be stuck in your keys in there because it's just like a jumble of lines but the phone has to come out.

Nicole Wakelin  1:09:46  
Yeah, I agree concur. I always take my phone out and stick it like on the table not because I wouldn't read it but because I'm like I can't sit with this in my back pocket.

Roberto Baldwin  1:09:53  
And if you if your lady can have like a nice little clutch is that like what the small that what a small purchase called

Nicole Wakelin  1:10:00  
Yeah, job nicely done.

Roberto Baldwin  1:10:03  
You have your keys in your phone,

Nicole Wakelin  1:10:05  
put your keys in your phone. Anyway,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:07  
my wife's purse is a little bit bigger than a typical clutch, I think, but it's a small person, it's got enough room for her phone or for wallet and her keys and her car key, you know, like, just, you know, you don't have to do anything. It is a seamless experience already. But the keypads on like on the floor, that's still kind of Yeah, me. Yeah, I think that's, that's an awesome backup solution. Whoopsie. Yeah, yeah, obviously, the thing you don't want to do is any system where the phone has to go through the cloud, yeah, connect that some network somewhere to unlock your car. It absolutely does. Whatever you do, whether it's a phone or you know, an SD card or whatever else, or ultra wideband, it needs to be a direct connection, that that's, that's essential.

Roberto Baldwin  1:10:52  
I'm also a big fan. And I do this and I'm a big fan of the technology and the device is a single purpose technology. Your phone has like 70,000 purposes. The key fob has one job and that's to unlock the car and start it and I do that I like in my bands like I have the same like I don't like computers on stage except for the one where I have to DJ by the way the computers failed while I was DJing the software's crashed second last song I have a whole audience being like what's going on. But like on stage, I don't want computers on stage. Like you know, I know most of synthesizers and most of little things that you buy these are our mini computers but they have one job and their one job is to play music they're not going to get messed up by Twitter like throwing a notification that's my other thing about the the your phone as a keep up I mean I'm sure it's it's gonna get better and people are gonna use it in five years you know everyone's gonna have their key their phones a key fob I'll probably still be walking around with the key though or at least a little card. I do like the little card thing little NFC Card like the card I don't like sticking to my wallets smack my wallet against the car. Get in the car driveway.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:01  
Yeah, but I mean ideally, you don't even want to have to take your wallet out and and tap it

Roberto Baldwin  1:12:06  
oh yeah, get next to the car rub rub my butt against it or something. Started my car I'm opening my car. Robbing my buddy gets

Nicole Wakelin  1:12:17  
arrested on the last breast.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:22  
Alright, next up from Michael sim, says my boys and I just completed our day trip to the LA Auto Show. First Can I write how thankful I am that we have an in person Auto Show open to the general public. If I may, here are a few thoughts. Number one, the future of the electric vehicle appears both overwhelmingly likely but also fraught with terror and vaporware. Terror

Roberto Baldwin  1:12:43  
Jerry vaporware is pretty much yeah, that's a lot of automakers really.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:48  
In addition to the expected offerings from mainline manufacturers like Nissan, Hyundai Ford and Toyota Buru their EVs Fisker canoe I picked those two as having more likelihood of achieving actual production given their valuation and seemingly reasonable plans. Of note, I am a Fisker ocean reservation holder I think companies such as indie Evie Molen and Imperium have a high possibility of non existence can't disagree with you on

Roberto Baldwin  1:13:16  
that now that's that's that's pretty much spot on like you get to kind of look at that the the Eevee like world and see which ones are likely going to make it I think lucid rivian Fisker I think those are three that that are going to do well canoes. Well there I don't know. But you know, it's it's tough for Keanu because you know, they have now they're going up against GM with bright coat with right not bright Is it bright Cobra drop, right drop sorry, bright cubs the old video platform. Right drop. So that's, that's gonna be tough for them. But I think you know, but then you look at all these other Eevee makers, and you're like, Oh, you have a nice idea. It's hard to make a car it's impossible to make 100 It's it's it is a Berkeley lien feat to do that at scale. So good luck. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:06  
All right. Second point from Michael. Contrary to my current Evie usage is daily drivers the Tesla Model three and possible future with a Fisker. My future potential cars on my list include two V eight sedans, although both are underpinned by similarly antiquated structures. I was largely unimpressed by the Lexus IS 500 While the Dodge Charger 392 Scat Pack continues to carry the charm of an old but still relevant celebrity. Well, Michael, if you if you have any plans to get that charger, I would do it sooner rather than later because dodge has already said that end of 2023 the charger and challenger in their current form are going away and they're going to be replaced by EVs. So you want to

Roberto Baldwin  1:14:49  
corner any better

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:53  
will have a lower center of gravity. Oh, that's true. Thanks for webs.

Roberto Baldwin  1:14:57  
Listen, the charger and the Challenger do exactly what they're supposed to do. And then loud line? Yeah, loud in in a straight line.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:05  
Yeah, it's a classic American Muscle cars.

Roberto Baldwin  1:15:07  
Yes. Yep.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:10  
Point three. Why did Toyota lock the doors in the GR 86 But Subaru invited Joe Blow like me to sit in the new BRC and the WR X to boot.

Roberto Baldwin  1:15:20  
Okay, so the Toyota Booth was very odd. They had a lot of cars, but everything was locked. And it was it didn't feel very i don't know i It was very large too. They covered a lot of they had a lot of real estate there. And instead of showing the BX for Z on they're like sort of mainstage they had the tundra and I understand like money wise that's the car you want to sell because big trucks make a lot of money the

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:46  
plus that's what they're going to have available to sell. Yeah, you know,

Roberto Baldwin  1:15:50  
and then they had they had their new technical logical next generation the future like in a corner and a little like circles. Yeah, like it's meanwhile you go to the Subaru booth Subaru booth is like it's like it's like summer camp over there they have like they've actually made like recreated the outdoors Yeah, this crazy floor and they're like yeah, you want to sit in our new soltera go for you want to sit in your plant pet a dog. It just felt like sooner it was so much dog Subaru was like inviting everyone in which was like this is our stuff you can look at it or not whatever man

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:26  
is not a big fan of EVs anyway so you know it's like yeah, we're gonna do this because we have to but you know, we don't really want you to buy this

Roberto Baldwin  1:16:34  
meanwhile me love Subaru is like love is electric. Like they're just going all in it's the same car but but they stay stuck all the Subaru things on it they had the the the what's the thing about the roof rack on top and I was I was putting my hands above my head. I'm like I don't know what that's what's happening what's going on there crown Subaru things with the Subaru he did Subaru things with a Subaru I was only there for half of the first half of the first press day and so I don't know if they actually put a dog in the car but I'm sure they did at some point. At some point a dog was sitting in that that car because it's Subaru but yeah, I think Subaru just I think overall like their their their LA Auto Show experience was more like hmm Come on. Let's hang out let's have a party you want to roast some marshmallows. Were to add it just felt like very sterile and like

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:29  
just just don't look down at the floor in the Subaru booth. You know?

Nicole Wakelin  1:17:32  
Yeah, like weirdly like very disorderly pumping into the air here.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:40  
Volvo and Lincoln have done a magnificent job with their interiors. Both manufacturers have mastered a mix of clean design tasteful materials and useful buttons.

Roberto Baldwin  1:17:49  
Yo Yeah, totally. The Lincoln like you get in Lincoln, the current gen like lineup of Lincoln's you just get into after like the last week. Oh my gosh, this is so nice.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:00  
Yeah, especially when you compare it to the Fords sitting next door. Oh, yeah. That have the same underpinnings but they they feel and look so completely different.

Roberto Baldwin  1:18:09  
Yeah, they do. They feel so much different. Of course Volvo was just like, hey, we're gonna make everything very minimalistic but also like here's the things beauty for you. Nice Swedish. And hey, dude like crystals because

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:22  
crystal shifters crystal shifter. Alright. Mike says I think I will stop here. Thanks for always being a source of excellent industry information and fun banter. Happy Thanksgiving. And Happy belated Thanksgiving to you too, Michael. Next up from Gupta, AJ. He asked stoplight drag racing and a full size truck Ford or Toyota hybrid. One of us did back Don't you know, we do not endorse stoplight drag racing. That is not a thing you should be doing.

Roberto Baldwin  1:18:51  
It is bad.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:52  
It is so very bad.

Roberto Baldwin  1:18:53  
It's because certainly not. I think people think that their car is just going to go into a straight line. And I think there are tons and tons and tons and tons and tons of YouTube videos that show cars that the person just tried to take off really fast and go in a straight line. And then anything like a little bit of oil on the on the asphalt like tires, like maybe one's a little bit lower than the other. It things get hairy really quick. And now you're off into a ditch or you're off hitting someone else's car here on the

Nicole Wakelin  1:19:22  
public street. Yeah, there's people in buildings and other cars and people walking

Roberto Baldwin  1:19:27  
and children and puppies and birds and whatnot. If you're looking at Yeah, if you want to do something like I want to go fast in a straight line, you go out to the middle, you know, you can probably go to your local racetrack, like Sonoma here. There was no metric they have a quarter mile day where you can go as a human with your regular car. And you can do a quarter mile on a nice racetrack where people can see what you're doing. And there's like medics and emergency crews. And

Nicole Wakelin  1:19:53  
so if you're healthy when you go sideways, yeah. And

Roberto Baldwin  1:19:56  
people help you to go sideways and if that's what you want to do. Rep Ford Raptor

Sam Abuelsamid  1:20:01  
that that said he did. He did reply after that says just looking for traction acceleration. So, you know, assuming that you're going to use these in an appropriate manner, you know, at your local drag strip oriented, that'd be rad, too. Stop, like, you know, what, which of these two, you know, would you say for you know, traction acceleration? I, it's been probably 1010 months, 1011 months since I drove an f1 50 hybrid just drove the, the tundra hybrid a couple of weeks ago. But you know, Spec wise they're, they're pretty close. You know, the, the tundra is rated at 437 horsepower, primarily three foot pounds. The the Ford is, I think about 450 horsepower, about 516 70 horse foot pounds. I mean, they're, they're in the same ballpark. Have either of you driven the two of them closer together in? I've done close enough.

Roberto Baldwin  1:21:05  
I've only drove I haven't driven the Toyota Funen driven the f1 50, which I didn't feel like drag racing, because it's, it's abstract. I mean, I've driven the Raptor, like, oh, wow, this goes really fast. And, you know, but it's also a truck, which always feels like, why why, like, that's not a thing I want to do in a truck. I want to go get some mulch, or some turtles that are splitting too and made out of concrete. So that turtles, yeah, I want to, I want to be able to haul something. I want to haul not the ass, but like everything else, like like a trailer and a boat and other things. But people want to go fast on a big truck. Oh, it's gonna be

Nicole Wakelin  1:21:41  
the title of this episode.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:48  
I think you know, if what you're really looking for, is maximum acceleration in a truck. You know, either, you know, get yourself a ramp TRX or, you know, next spring, an F 150. Lightning? Yeah. Oh, lightning, lightning is gonna have more power more torque than either of these trucks. It's going to be significantly quicker than either of these trucks. There's also I mean, there's the Hummer EV, which is also a lot more expensive.

Roberto Baldwin  1:22:17  
Yeah. Quicker, very, very heavy. But

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:22  
you know that in terms of, you know, toy, you know, Tundra versus f150 hybrid, you know, whichever one is less offensive to your eyes. I would say very, you know, Spec wise, there's not really a whole lot

Roberto Baldwin  1:22:35  
to get you get the fancy the fancy stuff. Tailgate stuff at the Ford and you can get the power on board. Yeah, the pro power on board is awesome. We played we played Mario Kart in the middle of the field with it, so

Nicole Wakelin  1:22:49  
and the fancy table that you can flip down by the gears? Yeah, yes.

Roberto Baldwin  1:22:53  
Oh, the fancy table you fold down?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:55  
Yeah, perfect for your cookies, perfect cookies, or burritos,

Roberto Baldwin  1:22:59  
which I've eaten and like I need to eat a burrito or you can work I put my computer on there and did some work, but mostly I just ate burritos with it. Very good.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:23:07  
All right. And I think we have one last question and I think there's really only one of the three of us that is suitable to answer this one. This is from Tehran from Dan Vesna says having just got our first rescue puppy, and our first old X type Jaguar any tips for Happy motoring with four legged friends?

Roberto Baldwin  1:23:26  
Okay, so first off I you know, we did have a cover in the back but when we stuck to cover in the in the in the Kona and now we don't have a cover, and they're like we got to like this leather interior, the dogs love it. What's nice is that I will say that the door opens wide enough for the dogs to jump in and out. There's two of them. One's German Shepherd one's a, like a little miniature German Shepherd. They have enough room they both lay down it's not as much room as say like a wagon or an SUV what would afford them. But yeah, and you know, you know what the the big one, the the big German Shepherd, he likes to stick his head out of the out of the sunroof. So you know, the sunroof, you know, but you do have to be careful when you when you have a new dog and you have in the back of the car was they will because they want to be with you because they love you. They will keep trying to get into the front seat. So we ended up having to put into the cage. So now that's like the dogs have been arrested.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:24  
So we have like, okay, feel like they're riding around in a cop.

Roberto Baldwin  1:24:27  
Yeah, yeah, I feel like they're riding around in the back of a cop car. Especially when they're younger. And then as they sort of learned you can you don't have the cage in the cone because they've sort of know that they can only come up so far. So so they stick their head back and out and you know, you pet them and you tell them they have to go back and they do. But yeah, for the first one, I would probably get the get a seat cover. Those are like, I don't know, 1520 bucks. get like one of those little cages. It's gonna be a pain in the ass beer. Want people sitting back there because you gotta take the cage out every time But it's going to be helpful because it's going to keep your puppy from trying to get into the front seat and sitting in your lap while you're trying to turn or drive. Or just, you know, it's it's cute when the puppies look in your face. It's less cute when the puppy is licking your face and it distracts you and now you're in a car accident. So, yeah, get a little cage get a little seat cover. Yeah, the dogs really liked the Jaguar. It's great for just around town stuff.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:25  
And ideally, you know, even better than the cage is actually you know, buckling in your your your pooch. Yeah, use a little latches things Yeah, you can, you can, you know, any pet store, you can usually buy, you know, little it's like a short little lead, you know, that's got, you know, one side plugs into the seat belt buckle and you know, the other side latches onto the the dog's harness or collar, preferably a harness when they're riding around Oh, yeah, use less than less spread the load around not not just a regular neck collar. And that's that's going to be a lot safer for you and for the dog you know, if something does happen, even if it's not, you know, somebody hits you, you know, if the dog is restrained, you know, there's a lot less chance of them being injured and you know, you don't want you don't want your puppy getting hurt.

Roberto Baldwin  1:26:14  
Yeah, definitely that the harness don't don't if you're if you're even if you just put your dog in the backseat with with the leash while you're driving like a short distance or whatever, you put the leash on a harness, just because you don't want that that leash getting stuck on something and it's around their collar. And you know, the dogs like trying to escape and it's hurting itself or it gets you know, it gets hurt during during an impact and so yeah, man that that turned into a downer from fun like card thing to like, Okay, this is what you

Sam Abuelsamid  1:26:41  
Well, yeah,

Roberto Baldwin  1:26:42  
I mean, Keep it keep your

Sam Abuelsamid  1:26:45  
you want your dog to have fun in the car, but also be safe. And yeah, my dogs, you know, they love riding around with the top down. You know? Just like, like Nico. Nico is the big one. Right? Bo, he's the big one. A little one. Just like Bowie likes to stick his head out the sunroof, you know, I hear you saying to, you know, they like riding around in the Miata with the top down, you know, hanging out over the over the side there in the breeze. You know, it's great. It's a dog party. Yeah, absolutely. Cars are great. Well, most most dogs and cars so

Nicole Wakelin  1:27:17  
my dog hates cars. Quiet and my puppy doesn't like

Sam Abuelsamid  1:27:22  
my my one of my neighbors has a colleague that also doesn't like go on in the car. Oh, she gets she gets very upset. Tell me when she got when she has to go in the car gets very agitated.

Roberto Baldwin  1:27:33  
If we are going on a long drive, we rent a minivan for the dogs. Because it's got a low like, you know, it's easy to get into there's a lot of space. You could put other people in the car and still dog still have like an entire play area. And, you know, when they're sitting in the car, like initially like yeah, my hands out the window then after a while they're like alright, now what? And then they have like a lot of room to lay down. We put blankets like we put a cover down then we put like comforters. The dogs are living the life. Here we are in the Baldwin household is what I'm saying.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:04  
Alright, that's it for this week. Thank you all very much. And we'll see you next time.

Nicole Wakelin  1:28:09  
Bye. Bye.

Roberto Baldwin  1:28:14  
I gotta go take pictures of that Pathfinder.