Sam Abuelsamid  0:00  
Coming up on episode 227 wheel bearings. We've got the 2022 Lexus RX 450 H the 22 Jeep Compass, Tesla stops playing games in motion. The F 150 Lightning battery size. solar roofs on cars selling Evie parts and speeding up Evie charging all that and more coming up next

this is episode 227 wheel bearings. I'm Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights.

Nicole Wakelin  0:37  
And I am Nicole Wakelin from autobytel,

Sam Abuelsamid  0:41  
and I think Roberto on this morning after Christmas must be sleeping off a tamale hangover. We haven't seen him yet today. Still early on the West Coast. I know he was some pictures that he posted of making fresh making fresh tamales the other day and it got me yeah.

Nicole Wakelin  0:58  
I've never had fresh tamales. That would be good. Never in my life. I think good.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04  
I love fresh tamales. Oh, that sounds really good. But anyway, enough of that. Enough of the food talk for now food. What do you been driving this week?

Nicole Wakelin  1:14  
I am in the 2022 Jeep Compass Trailhawk. And the compass is all new for 2022. So they made some changes. They updated how it looks on the outside. They did some interior upgrades. What didn't change was the engine. It's still a 2.4 liter

Sam Abuelsamid  1:32  
force not really all new. No, well, I have

Nicole Wakelin  1:35  
all kinds of new it's partly new. It's It's It's moderately new, the moderately new 2022 Jeep Compass. So engine 177 horsepower, 172 pound feet of torque, there's a six speed or a seven, nine speed automatic depending on the trim, you get the Trailhawk has the nine speed transmission is fine. It's not a lot of power. It's it's you know use mash the gas is it's a decent sized little crossover SUV situation, it'll get up to speed, but it's not as aggressive as I would like it to be I feel like it could use a little more of so if you're looking for something that has that little sort of a stronger acceleration. It's not that this doesn't go but it doesn't go with great enthusiasm. How's that? So, so that you know you and there's no option that is the engine that you get, regardless of which trim that you get. One of the other new things they did for this year, there is a new and I obviously didn't drive this trim, there's a new latitude Luxe trim that sort of like a fancier trim level, it says between the latitude and the Trailhawk. If you look at their trim ladder, so you have one more fancy trim. The nice thing though, is whichever one you get, they did make the interior nicer, they upgraded a little bit they changed the dash layout. Things look and feel a little nicer. The Compass used to feel a little downmarket, especially when you looked at some of the other Jeep offerings, which just have these beautiful interiors, whether you're looking at you know, the fancy schmancy grand wagoneer, or you're just looking to Cherokee, or even looking at like the Wrangler and like some of the trim upgrades you can get in that the compass didn't really have that. But now it's looking pretty good. I feel like they did a nice job upgrading that. Also on the list of things that you can have in the infotainment wise, there's an 8.4 inch screen that standard or a 10 point that depending on what I looked at Sam, I got two different numbers is 10.1 or 10.25. I don't know so we're gonna go with 10 ish, a 10 inch ish screen that's actually really nice to use. It's and it has the latest version of Uconnect I've always been a fan of you connect. I think it's one of the easier systems to learn. And I think it's one of the easier systems to navigate and even if you're the passenger who's never set foot in in an astrologist product in your life, you can sit down and use it and not feel like you're just I don't know what to do. I can't find anything it's pretty intuitive system. So I like it you get wireless Apple CarPlay and Android Auto on this one, you've got dual phone connectivity on my trim. And again, not all this is standard because it's a I had the 10 ish inch screen with some of the upgrades. The smaller system doesn't have some of the standards this smaller screen size, but I like the infotainment in I've always liked it in this you know it has a touchscreen Sam which you hate and I love so there's no wonky little controller touchpad on the center console. Also because this is the Trailhawk it gets a little extra stuff now you don't think of the compass as being the most off road capable Jeep out there but if you get the Trailhawk you could do some off roading in this. The regular four by four system, you just doesn't have a low range the Trailhawk you get a low range. Also you have select terrain that normally is auto snow and then a sand and mud mode in the Trailhawk. You also get a rock mode and hill descent control. So that gives you a little bit it does Give you a little extra capability and you get some extra stuff in there to the ride heights a little bit higher. You get some skid plates you get red toe hooks which is like a Trail Hawk thing they always have red toe hooks on the front so they do some you know there are some upgrades It isn't like every Trail Hawk it's not just for looks they actually have things that will make it more off road worthy if it wasn't just a like giant hellscape of snow and ice like literal ice that's everywhere right now I might be tempted to take it off road but I just see myself just skipping down an incline and never never getting my car back.

Sam Abuelsamid  5:35  
When when when you got ice there's only so much that you know a fancy four wheel drive system can do that's the thing you need like there's serious tires.

Nicole Wakelin  5:44  
Exactly. There's no grip on the ice you just it doesn't matter what you're just gonna how capable you are. Which is the thing like you know driving in New England you get snow all these SUVs are like yeah, we got four wheel drive, we're out there we go and do our thing. But then as soon as you get eyes it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, this is not the same ballgame. And we got ice from Christmas Eve until even this morning it's just now beginning to melt off the trees. But it was that kind of ice where you can't get into your car you have to like bash the the ice to get in so we just had really icy roads it did handle great yesterday driving when we went to Christmas. It was fine on that sort of icy icy slowly mix. I felt a couple times when the wheels wanted to slip but then they find their footing pretty fast. So it did give you a little bit of extra confidence. I liked how it drive drove in really terrible weather like the kind of thing where you have like we had, you know 10 car pile ups because people were just skating across the ice and couldn't stop. So it was capable in terms of just a bad weather vehicle not necessarily an off road thing. Very capable bad weather vehicle. So overall, I like it. I like I said I'm not super keen on the powertrain because it just it doesn't have enough oomph to it. It needs a little bit more in terms of cost it were at 32,500 with the extras that I had on there there's like a convenience group of seven sound group tailor tow group mine topped out at 38,395 Sam Any guesses on destination it'll make you cringe.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:17  
I'm gonna say on the Kapus 1700

Nicole Wakelin  7:21  
Oh, you were a little high it was 1000 Yeah 1595 Only a little help. Okay, so so far

Sam Abuelsamid  7:28  
up by 100 bucks

Nicole Wakelin  7:29  
yeah 500 bucks. So price is right there rules you would have lost because you went over

Sam Abuelsamid  7:34  
it's true. It's true. So closest without going over

Nicole Wakelin  7:39  
the closest without going over so but so overall I mean I like the compass it's not my favorite of the jeeps there's a lot of competitors out there I think what you do get with a compass that you don't necessarily get in this segment unnecessarily at this price is you do have the genuine off road capability if you want the Trailhawk there's other off road capable vehicles that are going to come in at this range but as far as the size and everything you want that sort of smaller kind of not really not as big as a Cherokee you want something a little bit more compact. This fits the bill overall I like the company I think the upgrades they did were good. I think the you know it looks a little bit more in line with the rest of the Jeep brand on the outside what they did in the front. Little upgraded interior, the upgraded infotainment is nice. And yeah, if you want to go off road if you wanted to you you really can do it in this little guy.

Sam Abuelsamid  8:25  
You know, the the closest direct competitor in the market, I think to the compass. Trailhawk is Ford's Bronco sport. Yeah, it's very similar in size. Similar overall specs. Although the Bronco sport, you have the option of the 1.5 liter turbo is the standard, which is similar power output. It's about 180 horsepower to the the two four and the Jeep, but you also have that 250 horsepower, two liter EcoBoost that they offer. Yeah. What if you've driven the Bronco sport? Yeah. What? How would you compare this against the compass?

Nicole Wakelin  9:04  
I feel like in terms of because, you know, just to make sure everybody really gets it. The Bronco in the Bronco sport are very different vehicles. So like the Bronco sport isn't just like, oh, we made a smaller Bronco. It is not as capable as the Broncos. So don't want anyone to think.

Sam Abuelsamid  9:19  
Yeah, the Bronco sport is based on the same platform as the escape. Right? So it's like Broncos a body on frame. Sure.

Nicole Wakelin  9:27  
Right. So because sometimes people get confused by this and they're like, No, these are entirely different animals. So it makes

Sam Abuelsamid  9:33  
a Mustang and a Maki. Yes. Like very bony. Yeah, very different views. Exactly.

Nicole Wakelin  9:39  
So it's kind of like that with us. So so but it doesn't make sense to compare the Bronco sport to this I think in terms of how they drive with that, that more horsepower engine you it's more you get more and it's more fun to drive the Bronco sport with that. In terms of offer capability. I feel like they're pretty well matched until you put the Trailhawk in there once you put the Trailhawk in there. I feel like the Jeep feels like to me it's a little bit more capable, it feels like it has a little more robust. I don't know what the ground clearance seat looks to me and I haven't looked up what it is for the Bronco sport. It's looking at it, it feels like the compass, because I know the Trailhawk actually gets more than the rest of the lineup too. And I don't know if the ground

Sam Abuelsamid  10:18  
ground clearance on the Bronco sport 7.8 inches on the bass and the big band 7.9 on the Outer Banks. And so it's a decent amount of ground clearance. Yeah, but I think I think the the Jeep is a little more, I think it's about eight and a half feet. Yeah,

Nicole Wakelin  10:36  
it feels like just looking at it. I'm trying to pull up specs as we're sitting here right now it feels like you might have a little bit more ground clearance in the compass. So if you were, you know, if you're really crawling around off road, and you want to make sure that you have enough room to get over stuff, that's my guess I'm scrolling down this giant sheet, I'm going to find it when we're not even talking about this anymore. Oh,

Sam Abuelsamid  10:55  
it's actually about the same. So the the, the sorry, no, the Trailhawk is 8.6 inches, the regular four wheel drive, the non Trailhawk, four wheel drives 3.1. So they're a little little bit more, a little bit extra, almost an inch more with the Trailhawk.

Nicole Wakelin  11:10  
Which, which doesn't seem like a lot until you've got something that's just barely sticking up and is, you know, going to hook you up. So I feel like I would go between the two. If I took Trailhawk out. I don't know I'd almost go with a Bronco sport for that more powerful engine. But if you want the offer capability, even with the engine not being is is nice in the compass and is responsive. I think I would still go with it with the Trailhawk if off roading was my thing. Yeah, comparison,

Sam Abuelsamid  11:39  
I've driven the compass a couple of times on the the off road course at the Chelsea Proving Grounds, still has is proving grounds, right wants to hear. And it's it's got some pretty serious off road chops, you know, driving it through, you know, 20 inches of water, you know, mucky water, going over logs and boulders and things like that. It's got some pretty serious off road capability, you know, despite being you know, a crossover, you know, it's based on a car platform, right. And it does, it does well, you know, it does well for itself. And I think, you know, generally anytime you get anything from Jeep that has a Trailhawk badge on it, and those red tow hooks, you know, you can be fairly confident in its abilities to go, you know, most places, obviously, it's not going to be quite as capable as a Wrangler. But you know, it's still, it's still got plenty. I think the one advantage that the the Bronco sport has, is it just taller, it's got a taller roof than the compass does. So, you know, one of the things that that Ford is touted with the Bronco sport is the ability when you fold the back seats down, you can get a bike rack that goes inside. And you can put two mountain bikes take the you know, take the front wheels off, you can put two mountain bikes inside the Bronco sport because the roof is tall enough, you can't do that in the in the jeep. Right. You know, on the other hand, you know, I think you know, the Jeep has a much nicer a much more upscale feeling interior than the Ford does the Ford Yeah, you know, it's predominantly hard plastics, it doesn't feel as premium is certainly solid, but it doesn't feel premium. Yeah. And you can, you can certainly get the Bronco sport into the same mid upper $30,000 price range. And, you know, the Jeep, to me feels like it's worth more, you know, just in terms of the materials and the finish, then the the Bronco sport does.

Nicole Wakelin  13:41  
I agree it's and that's sort of like, to me is a Jeep thing. Like they you know, chiefs aren't cheap vehicles, you know, they're not inexpensive. But the interiors, even when you go to their base models, the base trims in any model, they do a really good job of making them, where they use less expensive materials or spots where either you don't feel it or touch it so often or you're not staring at it so often. So what you're seeing always looks nice, and what you're touching feels nice. So it's not like everything in there is covered in quilted leather or anything like that. But it just has an overall more upscale feel. And it has a lot to do with like, you know, choosing where to use nice materials and where to say well, let's make that plastic, that little bit plastic. I feel like they do a better job of that then Ford Ford's interiors as a rule again, tend to feel a little bit more, Platt a little cheaper, even when it's not like oh, the quality is terrible. If you compare it is probably very similar in some regards. It's just choosing where to use those less appealing visually and tactilely materials. Jeep does a really good job about deciding where to put those so that you feel like you're in a nicer vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid  14:47  
And it's fine. That's a decidedly post bankruptcy thing for still Lantis slash Fiat Chrysler, you know, prior to 2,009/3 Church terrible, awful the first generation compass I don't know did you ever drive one of those I don't know if I ever drove it was a terrible, it was pretty horrendous via hard plastics, you could see flashing marks, you know where it came out of the mold. It was not good, man, you know, the the powertrain was even way worse than what it is now. And after after fi it took over after the bankruptcy reorganization, in the span of about 18 to 24 months, by two by 2011. Basically, the entire Chrysler Jeep Ram dodge lineup had their interiors completely revamped. And, you know, while they weren't perfect, they were a huge step up and they've continued to get better ever since. And I think you know, this, the current compasses is a good example of a good

Nicole Wakelin  15:51  
example. Yeah, then like the little tweaks they did this year, it was already looking, it wasn't looking as good comparatively as the rest of the Jeep lineup and the tweaks that they made. It's like okay, let's, let's up this a little bit. It's it's slipping behind. And they did they brought it up. So now it, it feels it looks better than it did. So yeah. And I generally, you know, I like it, I think you have to weigh it. The value proposition is the one where you can get kind of sketchy, like, if you're looking for, again, for the offer thing, and you want the Trailhawk shirt, go for it. But if you're just looking for a crossover, well, you know, there might be better options out there that are more affordable that do the same thing. But if you you know, cheap, it's cheap. It's all GPG I mean, how can you not love the little GP jeep? So? Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  16:34  
Alright. So I had a very different kind of crossover this week, I had the 2022 Lexus RX 450 H F SPORT Blackline. I think that's all of this suffixes it had. So, you know, I mean, the RX, you know, the current generation RX has been around for a while it's it's probably nearing the end of its current model cycle. I would guess probably in another year or so. We will see a new redesigned RX. This one was in a new color, celestial blue, which was quite an attractive shade of blue. The I've never been a huge fan of the RX. You know, it's it's nice. But it's nice. I mean, it's got its it definitely has the things that you expect of Alexis, it's quiet, it's smooth. You know, the the hybrid is? Well, actually, this, this is the one area that's kind of disappointed me the most about this one this week, haven't driving this one. It's the this one has a 3.5 liter V six that they've had in the RX hybrid for quite a while now. And it's paired with, you know, Toyota Lexus Hybrid drive unit at the front, and then an electric motor on the rear axle. And it's EPA rated at 30 miles per gallon combined. 31 City 28. Highway. And I've only been averaging about 23. And it's not like I've been Yeah, I have not been driving this thing particularly aggressively just driving it normally the way I'd always do. And I usually get pretty close to the EPA label numbers in this one not doing it. I mean, we've had we've had, it's been a little on the colder side, but it hasn't been frigid. Yeah, cold temperatures tend to be more of a problem for for hybrid for hybrids, because, you know, the batteries don't have as much power when they're cold. But still, you know, I mean, there's lots of times when those things can see, you know, on the cluster, it's driving an Eevee mode, and still only averaging about 23 miles per gallon which is not especially impressive you in a vehicle in this this class A segment is it's kind of mid size crossover segment, you know, 20 to 23 miles per gallon is fairly standard even for per standard gas versions. You know, this does have just doesn't have plenty of performance. That's not an issue. But I you know, in in the past when I've driven the RX hybrid, and I've driven it a couple times before in the current generation, it's definitely done better as done closer to 2728. So I'm a little surprised I'm not quite sure what's going on here. This one does have the F Sport package on it. You know, which probably hurts it a little bit but I think the last one I drove was also an F SPORT so it's got 20 inch wheels and black painted alloy wheels, which are part of the black line package I think. And the infotainment system in here you mentioned earlier a touchpad This still looks Lexus touchpad which is just really terrible interface. Yeah, it's it's not

Nicole Wakelin  20:03  
awful. It's just isn't good no matter how much they change that you're like, hey, it's really better now you're like, Nope, it's just bad in different ways, but keep trying.

Sam Abuelsamid  20:13  
Fortunately, you know, as I said, you know, this, this particular generation probably only got about a year and a half left on it. Yeah, I'm sure you know, when the new one comes out, it will adopt the same new infotainment system that's in the new annex that we've driven. It's much better way, way better. Yeah. Better. Yeah. Yeah, this is still the the two rovers and they do offer a slightly longer bodied three row version of it. But frankly, don't just don't if you're thinking about an RX, just don't if you if you need a third row, get something else. Yeah, don't don't get the RX three, RX L. Because that third row is just, it's too small to be useful for really anything. Just get the you know, if you if you're interested in a two row, you know, this is a good choice. Otherwise, you know, there are there are much better choices for a three row crossover. Yeah. And, you know, so it's this isn't the same size, class and weight, and everything is something like a Lincoln Nautilus. The Infiniti QX 50. Things like that, you know, I mean, if you want a three row, the QX 60 is a much better choice than this one. But this, this is not the three row anyway. So we don't need to worry about that. The, you know, it's got all the usual accoutrements in there, you know, Toyota and Lexus vehicles now of all pretty much have a full suite of Driver Assist features as standard equipment. So that's, that stuff is all there. This one, the F SPORT is priced out MSRP $51,200. All in including the only $1,025 delivery charge, oh, a bargain, a bargain came to 59,380. So you know, just shy of 60? Grand, which is, yeah, it's a lot. It's, it's not an inexpensive vehicle, you know, the RX hybrid starts at 48,000. For the base trim level, in, I think, if you if you like the design, great. You know, I think it's, it's not a it's not a bad design, you know, I think it's better than the previous generation was, you know, I don't mind the way it looks. But I think it is getting a little long in the tooth, compared to some of the competition. And, you know, we will, I think we'll be seeing a new one sooner rather than later. In fact, we should be seeing the the r z, which is the Lexus branded. Evie crossover off the same platform as the new Subaru sell Tara and the Toyota BZ for X, terrible name. They've, Lexus has already released teaser images of that one. And we will probably see that one sometime before the end of 2022. So you, you might want to consider holding off and maybe taking a look at the RZ instead of the RX as an alternative. Yeah. So you know, the, it, it's, it's Alexis, so it's going to be reliable, it's going to be high quality stuff, there's not going to be any rattles and, you know, things falling off the thing. You know, it's gonna run pretty much forever. And I think in most cases, you know, my current example aside, you know, they generally have pretty, pretty good fuel economy. I'm not sure what's going on with it so weird

Nicole Wakelin  23:54  
that you're having issues of fuel, because normally you especially Sam, you, you're pretty spot on to whatever it's supposed to get, regardless of the kind of car that you're driving.

Sam Abuelsamid  24:03  
Right. And that's, that's why I was a little surprised that, you know, to barely be getting over 23 with this one. But otherwise, you know, it's it's a good, you know, premium crossover, if that's what you're looking for.

Nicole Wakelin  24:15  
Yeah, I think it'll, you know, a large part of the problem that you're seeing with this is just that it's it's due to be given some serious attention and it's so it's, it's falling behind where other Lexus vehicles are right now. And like you said, with that infotainment, that's just got awful. It'll be better with the next one. They just haven't gotten there yet. So you're alone, at least

Sam Abuelsamid  24:34  
it has it does have Android Auto and Apple CarPlay support but it's wired so you do have to plug it in, plug your plug it

Nicole Wakelin  24:39  
in, so I mean, at least it's there. But I think yeah, if this feels like one of the vehicles like okay, it was probably great. A little bit ago. Now it's falling behind a little if you give it time until it is whatever its next incarnation will be it will probably be really good again, but it's it's a little bit. Yeah, a little bit lackluster in some respects right now.

Sam Abuelsamid  24:57  
Yeah. I mean, it's a competitive marketplace out They're, yeah, and they're, you know, there's a lot of a lot of really good options out there today, you know, including from, you know, from Jeep has as an example. I mean, we talked, but they're, they're getting much more premium than they used to be. Yeah, something like the the Grand Cherokee, you know, especially with the new, you know, the four by E that's that's coming up early in the new year. Right plug in hybrid, you know, that that might be something that you know, Alexis buyer might want to take a serious look at. Right?

Nicole Wakelin  25:30  
Yeah. Because it does it's an it's it's surprisingly premium how Jeep has gotten so yeah, so there's competition for the RX coming from all quarters right now, you know, it's not a segment where there aren't a lot of options, there are a lot of options. So to to make any vehicle Lexus or anybody's competitive you you have to step up your game and you have to keep occurrence. I just think they haven't. I don't think the Lexus is like neglecting this or anything. I think it's you know, you have you have it's just not there yet. It's like, oh, it's it's hitting that spot where it desperately needs it. But we're not quite there yet. You know,

Sam Abuelsamid  26:01  
there's you know, there's there's always a product cadence for everything. You know, there's a time when it's fresh out of the factory. And there's a time when it's been on sale for four or five years. And the the RX is, you know, at the far end of that, that scale. Yes. And with especially with a lot of a lot of new EVs in a similar kind of market segment coming out. Yeah, there are a lot of interesting options.

Nicole Wakelin  26:26  
That's really like the big challenge. There are so many EVs coming out that sit right in the same segment, to be a hybrid, and to not be like a really stellar one for whatever the reason. It's like, well, you've got other hybrids, you've got other non hybrids, and you have other EVs that all compete in that same little segment. It's like, oh, this segment is super competitive.

Sam Abuelsamid  26:45  
Yeah. Alright, let's talk about some of the stuff that's been happening this week. Say with the stay with infotainment for a minute, we talked, last time I think about Tesla, allowing passengers allowing passengers to play games on the infotainment, the air quotes, passengers, all the vehicle is in motion. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration got a little bit concerned about that, and sent some letters to Tesla and said, Hey, what's going on here, you know, threatened to take some regulatory action. And so Tesla promised to push out a, an over the air update that disables the playing of games, while the vehicles in motion. Yeah, I think the the fact that they ever allowed this in the first place, to me is just a sign of a really bad culture, within Tesla, you know, from an from an engineering and safety standpoint, this is just just should never have happened.

Nicole Wakelin  27:59  
You know, there's the whole thing with the info with infotainment, in general tassels included, is it it lets you do stuff that, like you think about all the things that you can do that are allowable on an infotainment system while you're driving, that if you've ever tried to do sometimes yourself, or you've watched the person driving is your passenger, and they do something that's reasonable, they're trying to change directions, or they're trying to hit play or whatever. And you think, Okay, we're gonna go off the road now look where you're going and you think those little tiny things how often they can distract you, and screw you up. Like to give someone the opportunity to, to push even further and to play a game. Like think what it does when you're doing this stuff, you you are okay to use on infotainment and how it can screw you up the potential there for it to be a screw up when you're, you're not really the passenger and you're playing a game. Yeah, that that it seems like it's a step too far. You want to say we're all really reasonable responsible grownups right and nobody's ever going to play a game on their Tesla infotainment screen. They who would do that if they're driving and you're like, 90% of people? Well, when you when you look at how people use their infotainment systems and their phones, 90% of people are going to use it the wrong way. Because, like, what how do you ever even go a day where you don't see someone with their phone up in front of them doing something as they're driving? Like, you can't even go to the grocery store, not run into that. So you know, it's a given people are going to break the rules. So I think it's a good idea for them to lock that out. Because I just think it the potential for people abuse that is just

Sam Abuelsamid  29:30  
huge. I mean, I actually really liked that they've done things like incorporate video games and, you know, media streaming services into the infotainment system. Yeah. Because, you know, an Eevee you know, there are going to be times when you're sitting there, wait, yeah, to for it to charge and you can sit there for half an hour, 40 minutes. You know, having something to occupy your time while you're sitting there. I mean, you're not always going to go do your shopping or whatever, while while you're waiting especially If you're on a road trip, and so having something that you can do while you're sitting there is great. I think that's that was a brilliant idea to put Netflix and Spotify and you know, those the, you know the games in there, but just don't do it while the cars in motion. It's just a bad bad idea.

Nicole Wakelin  30:17  
I agree. I mean, I think it's fine to have that stuff there, but I just don't, there's some things you don't, you know, you don't need to have that while the car is in motion, you just you just don't it's it just opens up too big of a can of worms and the potential for drivers to to get themselves in trouble. Like I said, we have enough ways that drivers get themselves in trouble with infotainment as it stands. So like to give them the ability to like stream Netflix or play games and do some of these things while a car is moving. It's like, Guys, no,

Sam Abuelsamid  30:45  
yeah,

Nicole Wakelin  30:46  
don't don't do that.

Sam Abuelsamid  30:49  
Alright, staying with with EVs. Actually, I think pretty much all the stories we have are somewhat Evie related. Yeah. This week, we got confirmation on the battery sizes for the F 150 Lightning, which is watching in the spring, production should be kicking off probably, probably sometime. I think they're while they're doing they've been doing pre production vehicles for a while now. At the plant in Dearborn, they've they've been building prototypes, they're on the assembly and using this assembly equipment, and full production, I think scheduled to kick off sometime in February. But when I saw the the lightning, I got a background or last May before it was revealed. You know, they wouldn't tell us at the time how big the batteries were, they only talked about the expected range of about 230 miles for the standard range 300 miles for the extended range. And so working back from that I did some estimating that the standard range battery is probably going to be about 115 kilowatt hours. And the extended range is probably going to be about 150 to 160. Turns out, they're actually smaller than that there are only 100 kilowatt hours to the base model. And 131 for the extended range, which means that this thing, if they actually hit those range targets that they're talking about, is actually quite a bit more efficient energy efficient than, than the Maki, and definitely more efficient than I was expecting it to be.

Nicole Wakelin  32:24  
Which is kind of a nice thing. And a good thing, like you want to see that the more that we can get out of a battery without having to be absolutely ridiculously gigantic, the better. So I guess that's a good thing that their, whatever strides they're making, in their engineering in their battery technology, that they're able to get more out of it. They didn't say anything, and I'm scaling down the story. The nothing changed range wise, right. ranges. Right. Okay. So theoretically, then, that would be the next thing. And next week now. Our story is the ranges change. Now, if they can keep those ranges with those batteries, that's pretty impressive. And that's, that's a good

Sam Abuelsamid  32:59  
thing. Yeah, I mean, the the range estimates that they've had for the Maki, you know, have been, you know, the real world range has been pretty close to, you know, the estimated range. So I expect the, the lightning is probably going to be pretty similar, you know, that should, you know, at least hit those range numbers in nominal use cases. Which is, which is good. Yeah, because he said the batteries are the single most expensive component in an Eevee. And if you can get the range that you're looking for with a smaller battery, then that's less weight, less materials, less cost. And that's probably how Ford is hitting that $40,000 Starting price for the lightning pro with that with that standard range battery. And they, you know, they claim that they're not going to be losing money on that they say that it's going to be, you know, at least breakeven to slightly profitable. So, that's, like, that's a good thing.

Nicole Wakelin  33:55  
Are you excited about the lightning? Are you stuck? Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  33:59  
I think I think that this one is gonna have, you know, because the F 150 is such a huge selling vehicle. That and because Ford is also putting a lot of emphasis on the commercial users for this one. In addition to consumers, you know, I think that this, this vehicle is actually going to have a real impact in the marketplace, in a more mainstream segment of the marketplace, not just early adopters, you know, who are the type of people who are largely going for new brands like Tesla rivian, lucid and others. But, you know, for for the more traditional mainstream market, you know, to have something like this in there that that those customers will look at and say, Okay, this truck does what I need a truck to do, and it's comparable in price to the gas version. It's going to cost me less to operate it you know, yeah, I'm gonna go for it. You know, they, you know, they cut off reservations at couple of weeks ago, you know, when they hit about 200,000, and that 200,000 reservations number does not include the reservation. They've got a separate reservation system that they had for their commercial customers. So that's just retail Wow. And they haven't said how many reservations they've gotten from a commercial customers. But from the conversations I've had, it sounds like there's been a lot of interest from, from Fleet users for this thing.

Nicole Wakelin  35:25  
I found it interesting the number of people that, like either friends or acquaintances, random Joe's whose conversations have happened with that when this truck comes up, both people looking at it as commercial and as personal use, that aren't the kind of people you would think like you said, they aren't those early adopters. They aren't that, Oh, I gotta have an Eevee. I gotta have an Eevee. It's the latest tech, they're more like, no, I got to have a truck that does what I need my truck to do. That a really genuinely excited and quite curious about this, like, what do you know about it? Have you driven it? Have you done this? Have you done that? There's some there's some real curiosity from a segment of people that, I guess would say, I don't think they were curious about the rivian generally mean, just because that was to like, oh, new company, whatever. I don't want some fufu truck, but suddenly, it's an F 150. So it's taken more seriously. It's like, wait, they did this tuna 450? Well, maybe this is actually something to pay attention to. And I think that's a good thing for EVs and I think it's gonna, like you said, it could really move things forward for the segment and for, for getting people into EVs and the commercial use the potential there is just huge.

Sam Abuelsamid  36:30  
Yeah. You know, and rivian, you know, to the credit is not really targeted, the same right, buyers? Yes, F 150, or Silverado or RAM. Right. You know, it's a smaller truck, you know, it's it's right. It's a lifestyle truck. They admit that. Yeah. And so they're, you know, their customer base is, is very different.

Nicole Wakelin  36:50  
It's very different, but it's still but it just draws like, you know, there's, you hear people interested, like, you know, when you're traveling and chatting with people at airports and things like that, and when, you know, they see what you're doing, or what you're writing up and you talk about cars, they're certain vehicles that, you know, the people have heard of, or haven't heard of, and rivian is one of those maybe heard of it, maybe have it, you know, but like everybody's heard of Ford. Everybody knows what an F 150 is. And it really is piqued people's curiosity in a unique way to you know, is it really a truck that can do this? Is it is it is it still going to be a truck? Is it still going to feel like my trucking truck or is it suddenly this little Evie cutesy ness is like, No, it's It's truck like. And I just like seeing that people are genuinely curious in a new way, as opposed to just like the fanciness of saying, Oh, I've got Evie tech, but if you take in, in my truck, and they really, you know, two great tastes that taste great together. Does that really come together? And I'm like, Yeah, I think it's going to

Sam Abuelsamid  37:48  
Yeah, and you know, we, and about a week and a half from now. GMs Chevrolet is going to take the wraps off the Silverado Evie, which is going to be competing with this thing. It's it's the most, one of the most direct competitors to the f150 in the gas truck market. And yet, we can't talk about the Silverado yet. That's that's coming up January 5. But it's going to be a very interesting marketplace to see what happens with electric trucks over the next few years.

Nicole Wakelin  38:24  
I'm curious to and not with anything that's out there that we may have heard, but you know, in general, the f150 that's out there right now in the Silverado that's out there right now. The f150 interior looks so much nicer. I feel like f1 that Ford folks did a better job and I'm curious, you know, like you got to step up. I feel like Chevy has to step it up to bring the Silverado to the same level there. So I'm Yeah, because it hasn't their interior was

Sam Abuelsamid  38:49  
well, the the 22 Silverado you know, got an upgraded interior. And it did and it definitely looks better. Better. And, you know, like I said, Can't talk about the Silverado. Evie. Right. But there's there's stuff that there's lots of stuff to say about that. Yes. And we'll

Nicole Wakelin  39:08  
there will be stuff on episode yet to be determined. There will be thoughts

Sam Abuelsamid  39:13  
to 28 or 29. Depends. Yes, it's that close. All right. solar roofs on cars. There's a company out of Europe called lightyear that is getting ready to launch a car something called the light year one electric sedan that has solar panels on the roof and on the hood, excuse me. And they claim you can get about seven miles an hour of charging from the solar panels. Which you know, I think maybe an ideal conditions that might might just be possible. I'd like

Nicole Wakelin  40:00  
to see you pull that off right now in New England where there's three minutes of sun and endless hours of snow.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:08  
Have you ever driven the the Sonata Hybrid with the solar roof?

Nicole Wakelin  40:12  
I feel like I did. At one point, maybe, maybe kind of sorta, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:21  
Yeah, I, I've definitely had that one. And I had it in the middle of the summer. And, and it generated some juice for the battery. Not a whole lot. Yeah, after sitting out in the, in the direct sunlight for most of the day, the hybrid battery was was pretty much full, which is about far enough to go maybe about a mile and a half. And Evie mode. You know, the, the idea of putting solar panels on a car to, you know, to collect energy from the sun while it's sitting there not being used. is in theory, a great idea. I love it. I have I have I mean, I have no problem with it. conceptually. Mm hmm. The reality is, though, that, you know, when you when you look at a house with solar panels, or you look at a solar farm, anywhere where you see solar panels installed, there's a good reason why you never see them installed in a horizontal position. They are always tilted in the general direction of where the sun is going to be through most of the day, is solar panels. Generally, you know, they have a fairly narrow angle. You know, what the sun's rays hitting it? You know, once you get beyond a certain angle, instead of the sun's rays generating power, they basically just reflect off, right? And then they're useless. They're just glass panels that you're carrying around. Yeah, they're adding weight and complexity.

Nicole Wakelin  41:54  
I know that's to wonder, like, you get seven miles or they say seven miles an hour of electric driving, or seven miles electricity per hour. So okay, cool. But how much are you losing on the times when it's not generating anything? Because it's a horrible cloudy day, and you're carrying around this? This really heavy roof and hood? It's the hood of the car too. Yeah. And how? Okay, so having driven behind a snowplow that was that was sanding with small boulders coming out of the sand or thing? Yeah. How hard is it? Or how easy is it to just completely destroy the hood? I mean, you can't be anywhere, there's

Sam Abuelsamid  42:35  
how your windshield looks after, you know, six or seven years of use. Right? You know, and then you driving into the sun you you see all these little pits, you know, sandblasted for for several years,

Nicole Wakelin  42:46  
right? What's that gonna do to your hood, which even takes more of the brunt of that than your windshield because it's low and it's right at the ground and every last little pebble that falls off of a construction trucker sanding vehicle or whatever is pinging off your hood. How I'm scanning down the storm like I'm not seeing anything about the hardiness of these or what they've done to keep them from getting I guess the roof a little bit more I can see that surviving better. But that hood I keep looking at that hood. I'm like, No, that hood is doomed. That is doomed, it goes right down all the way to the front. No, no, well,

Sam Abuelsamid  43:21  
when you look at this car and profile, you know, it's fairly attractive carpets, very aerodynamic slopes down at the front slopes down at the back, you know, so the air flows over it nice and easily. But the problem there is again as you look at it, and it's not like you even have you know a lot of horizontal panels, solar panels, you know, they're all at different angles. So most at any given moment of the day depending on the position of the car relative to the sun. Half of those panels are going to be pointed away from the sun and still

Nicole Wakelin  43:53  
gonna be like one little piece like at any given moment you have what point like 20% of your panels are actually going to be I'm making up a number but like we're actually going to be able to get sun in generate anything also it has those covers I don't know if any other vehicles ever remember the 100 Was it the insight that has a little half moon cover things? I don't know if anything I associate them with the insight I don't know if anyone else has done them but those were those are also like doomsday devices in the winter because when you go through snow banks and stuff you you destroy those Yeah, they just like rip off and look horrific

Sam Abuelsamid  44:29  
this this this would be a car like this would be a great car to drive in warm sunny climates

Nicole Wakelin  44:36  
California

Sam Abuelsamid  44:38  
is much closer to the equator or

Nicole Wakelin  44:41  
LA we have Yeah, California we have a new car for you it is the light year one but only if you're in Southern California no place where there's ever snow.

Sam Abuelsamid  44:49  
Yeah. Well yeah and at the LA Auto Show, you know we saw the the Fisker ocean, you know, which is a nice you know, mid size two row SUV, that's also going to have a full solar roof option on there. You know, and it's, you know, that one at least is more horizontal. So, you know, if you're driving that thing around in California, you'll probably collect more light from that one than or more power from that than you might from.

Nicole Wakelin  45:18  
And it's also not, it's not the hood, like the roof freaks me out enough, but the hood is just making me cringe. And I know this can further demonstrate the price. The price in this particular article says it's expected to be sam $175,000 175. Yep. Oh, sure. Let's buy to see that's a. So those people are. So if you're spending $175,000 on a fancy limited run, elect, because this first one is only going to be 946 first edition models at $175,000. You don't care if you have to take that in and have it fixed because you have the money to spare to fix your broken solar panels on your hood.

Sam Abuelsamid  46:00  
I guess, I guess. You know, I think this is actually one you know, I was talking with somebody the other day did an interview for marketplace tech on solar roofs talking about this. And one of the areas where I think this actually makes probably makes a lot more sense than on cars and SUVs. Is on trucks on long haul trucks. Yes, because you've got this large flat area on the top of the trailer, you can cover that and solar panels, especially for things like refrigerated trucks. Oh, yeah, you know, and have some batteries on there. And instead of having a diesel auxiliary power unit, which is what they typically use on those things, to drive the refrigeration system on a refrigerated trailer, you just covered that thing and solar panels and use an electric refrigeration unit and a battery, that would actually make a lot more sense, that would be a lot that would have a lot more impact on overall energy use and emissions, I think then

Nicole Wakelin  47:03  
I can see that application that makes sense. Like I think I'm not, I'm not anti solar roof, I just see the applications, your brain is like, Oh, this is the right way to do it. But yeah, I can see that would be a great idea to put it on a commercial vehicle on a truck to act as like the refrigeration unit instead of having to do diesel that. And it's also that's a huge surface area. So you'd have, I mean, that's vast, as opposed to the tidiness of the roof, even to do the roof in the hood and like the truck, like all the way all the top surfaces of your vehicle, not even remotely close to how much surface you'll have on the top of a truck. That would be cool. That'd be a good idea.

Sam Abuelsamid  47:39  
All right. GM wants to sell AV parts. You know, which is I think, kind of funny. When I wrote this up the other day, you know, back before the late 1990s, GM used to make most of its parts in house, you know, almost almost everything, you know, except for like tires, basically and realize, you know, most most of the stuff that went into GM vehicles was made by the various parts divisions, which were all under various Delco brands like Delco, Remi Docomo, rain, dock electronics, they had all these parts divisions, that in the late 1990s. They bundled these all together under the Delphi brand, which they then spun off somewhere around 2000 or 2001. I think as a separate company, they basically divested all of their parts making capabilities into a separate company and that that company went through a long like five year bankruptcy reorganization a few years later, eventually, you know, it now the remains of that a lot of the various businesses either got shut down or sold off to other companies. What's left of it now exists is active, which is focused on electrical or electronic architectures and driver assist systems. And everything else is gone. But now, as GM and other automakers legacy automakers are getting into EVs, they're going back to making a lot of parts in house making motors and batteries and stuff in house. And one of the things GM wants to do is they want to be able to sell these parts to anybody that wants to use them. And so they're really pushing, you know, they've done a couple of deals this year, with their fuel cell technology for long haul trucks with Navistar they're working with a European company on aviation, using fuel cells, and also locomotives and they want to offer their batteries and motors and electronics to basically anybody that wants to buy them. And so they're looking at things like the one of the first things they're doing is selling the conversion kits for older cars, you know, for resto mods using

Nicole Wakelin  49:58  
it. That's awesome. I was See like, like they have here an El Camino with like an Eevee to convert it into being an Eevee. That would be awesome.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:06  
Yeah, they showed this one at SEMA is one of the most recent ones. It was actually built by Lingenfelter. Who looks awesome aftermarket stuff.

Nicole Wakelin  50:17  
I want those to be EVs because you pull up to those like anything like that these vintage cars on the, you know, when they're next to you at a stoplight or in the good gravy, this smell of the exhaust and you're like, Oh, I could just feel the world dying around it and just have to be quiet little happy to eat. I'll be kind of cool.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:34  
Did you watch the HBO series Watchmen? Yes, one of one of the one of the interesting details in there. I don't know if you've ever read the graphic novel or saw the original movie. But one of the things that happened in the original story was Dr. Manhattan had come up with some I forget what the details were, but came up with some source of electricity that was basically limitless and, you know, no emissions and everything. And so in the in the HBO series, all the cars they drive around in our you know, modern or even vintage like the main character whose name escapes me, the cop she was driving around in a black Buick Grand National. But when you see it, you realize wait a minute, things doesn't sound like a grand dash. It sounds It's electric. All the cars in there were electric. And so it would be cool to actually be able to make that happen. Yes, you guys like like this El Camino from Lingenfelter GM also you know, they're working with Textron Tech's want to Textron divisions makes ground support equipment for air for airports. Like the the belt loaders that they used to put the baggage in the cargo hold the airplanes and the tugs. They used to move the move the aircraft around, they want to electrify those using GM electric motors. So I think I think it's cool that they that they want to do this.

Nicole Wakelin  52:04  
I think it was cool. I'm looking at this picture. I think that's I was gonna thinking it was stairs, like the stairs that drive up to an airplane. But I guess it's actually to do that Chikage loader, but all I can think of with this image sitting there is Arrested Development monies. And like I see that and I'm like, oh, it's Arrested Development. No, it's not this is exactly, but that's what that will forever remind me a picture of those by themselves.

Sam Abuelsamid  52:28  
Excellent. Let's see. And one last one. Volkswagen has started last year started launching their their ID lineup of electric vehicles, they launched the ID three in Europe, the ID for which we have here now. They bring out the ID five, the ID buzz and there's more coming. And apparently they in Europe has started rolling out an update to those vehicles and over the air software update, which is increasing the charging maximum charging rate for these so right now, they're limited to 125 kilowatts, excuse me maximum charge rate. And they're bumping that up to 135 for standard models and 150 for the ID five GTX model which is the sporty er version of the ID five which is a coupe version of the ID four which we don't get here. But presumably they will continue to do this and this is one of the interesting capabilities that we have now with these modern vehicles with over the air updates to be able to improve some of these capabilities like the the charging speed maximum charging speeds you know, Ford already on the maki has pushed out an over the air update for the machi that changes the the charging profile so one of the complaints with the maki was if you're using doing fast charging, when it when the battery gets previously when the battery got to 80% charge the max the charge rate would drop from 80 kilowatts down to 10 which is basically the same you get at home. Right? And they they change that so now goes to 90% before it steps down. So you know if you're doing a road trip it's much more convenient you can get much more charge into the car before it starts to slow down.

Nicole Wakelin  54:28  
Yeah, this is looking at this it says it'll cut charging times by up to nine minutes when charging from five to 80%. That's pretty significant like nine minutes like you said if you're especially if you are doing road trip if you're chopping 10 minutes off every time almost you charge your car. That's a big deal. Yeah, it's actually pretty cool. And I think it is it is sort of I know EVs you know 10 years ago were very of the future 15 years ago or whatever. But just the idea that they can over the air make your car cooler than it was when you parked in your driveway last night is too is really kind of neat. It's neat that they can make these improvements that are. They don't, it doesn't cost you anything. As a consumer, you're not paying like I need an extra. Here's $2,000 Give me the new and improved Nope, we're just going to boost this out to you, boom, your battery's better than it was your charging is better than it was yesterday, like, hey, thanks.

Sam Abuelsamid  55:17  
That's cool. I mean, that's one of the things we can thank Tesla for. And that's one of the things that Tesla did really well was over the air updates, and enabling using an electronic architecture that can do that. And now other manufacturers are using that, of course, yeah, not all of them are using it in ways that we would actually like. Like, for example, Toyota, I can't remember do we talked about Toyota's OTA update for remote charging last week?

Unknown Speaker  55:44  
No, I don't remember. Oh,

Sam Abuelsamid  55:47  
yeah, I think, okay, I don't think we touched on this story. So this, this actually came out last week, where Toyota vehicles 2018 Onward, have the ability to actually a lot of Toyota vehicles have built in remote start capability using the key fob. But you can also and this is also true of a lot of manufacturers, you know, if the vehicles got connectivity, you can also remote started using an app from your phone, right? So you know, cold days, you don't have to go outside and fire it up, you can just do it from your kitchen table while you're eating your breakfast and warm up the car. They are changing that. So that now are they when you bought the vehicles, when you bought those vehicles, they came with three years of complimentary connected vehicle services. And so you got that charging capability for free as part of when you bought the vehicle. Okay, now, as that three year time period is coming up. They're saying, Okay, now you have to pay $8 a month, if you want to continue to use the remote charging, or the remote start capability. Except that it's not just for the using it from the app with conductivity. It's also for the key fob, which is not actually

Nicole Wakelin  57:19  
doing its functions the way that it Oh, that

Sam Abuelsamid  57:24  
lock and unlock with your key fob. But if you want to turn on remote start from your key fob, you have to pay $8 a month.

Nicole Wakelin  57:31  
Okay, no, that's not cool I get I get the doing it with the app I get because there's all sorts of things that you subscribe to for your app to have extra access and this and that the other thing on there and all sorts of different functionality that you can ascribe subscribe to that all of the OEMs have things

Sam Abuelsamid  57:46  
that you can there are there are legitimate costs associated with that, you know, for the data costs and right you know, bandwidth and everything else and I get

Nicole Wakelin  57:54  
that but like for your key fob, your key fob is your key fob. Yeah. Yeah, I think or Oh, I dislike thumbs down. I don't like that. Oh, that would be that would be me cranky. If I'd be like, Wait, okay, fine, I'll lose being able to do it on my phone. But I can't even use my key fob to do it anymore.

Sam Abuelsamid  58:13  
And this, this is one of the things everybody wants to over the air updates for the cars. Well get used to having to pay for subscriptions for all these kinds. And I know,

Nicole Wakelin  58:23  
you know, I know that they're going to do that. Like, even as I was saying, it's great to update things. And I know there will always be some things that they will probably just update and say it doesn't matter. We're just updating it. Here you go. It's free. Yeah. And there's going to be things where it's like, hey, we have this capability. But if you want it, it's going to be X number of dollars. But that seems like more than that. That's just, I think what makes that feel like like bad form. It's not just hey, we have a new thing that we can do. If you want the new thing, it will cost you this much extra. I'm kind of okay with that. I'm not okay with Hey, we have this thing that your key in your hand does. We've changed our mind. It won't do that unless you pay us $8 a month. That's not the same. That's taking stuff away from me that I know that one. Yeah, that's tough. That's a tough pill to swallow. We're,

Sam Abuelsamid  59:07  
we're gonna see a lot more of that going. Unfortunately, yeah, you're probably right. All right, let's answer some questions from the readers. All right, readers. Let's start with Coach Cabrera says as federal and state subsidies for EVs expire, what is preventing them from becoming a niche market instead of mainstream? Most people will be turned away by these $40,000 pricing levels.

Nicole Wakelin  59:32  
Oh, what's the question? So is it

Sam Abuelsamid  59:34  
so you know, we've already seen Tesla and GM, hit the cap on raising tax breaks the 200,000 sales cap. And so now if you buy an Eevee from Tesla, GM, you no longer get federal tax credits on those. Yeah. And other manufacturers are going to hit that threshold in the next couple years. And because you know, it doesn't look like The build back better act is gonna pass with expanded tax incentives for EVs as those tax incentives go away. You know, what's gonna prevent them from just becoming a niche product instead of going mainstream?

Nicole Wakelin  1:00:13  
In a way? I mean, they're kind of niche now because even with incentives and things, EVS can still be pricey, depending even even affordable EVs, and you're still looking at like, you know, and it depends on the state, I guess there's not a lot of incentives in New England. But I don't think there's anything where I am in New Hampshire, really, but you still have to, you know, pony up the cost to get a charger, a level two charger installed at your house, which is something that you know, is is an extra chunk of change, you know, to have an electrician come out and run wires and do whatever. So I think there's always been a certain, like cutting out people whose incomes are tighter just by the nature of EVs right now. And because it's not like you, you know, you don't have Evie chargers everywhere, you don't have one in your house. So there's there's extra cost associated with that that will not ever be associated with owning a gas vehicle right now. I don't know. I think it might slow it down a little. But I feel like people who are going for EVs at this point, it's like, okay, maybe I'll pick a VA that still has a, you know, an incentive as opposed to Evie B, which doesn't, it might change which one you get a little bit, but I feel like people who are going in for EVs are going to go in for EVs. And I feel like there's more and more people that are ready to accept that and the fact that they may or may not get an incentive is not going to stop them. I think that is as there's more out there. You know, how many EVs are there are coming how many of these have just been introduced the the cost, the pricing on those is is going to come down you know, is there's is no longer just okay, you have all these crossovers, like everyone's introducing these crossover kind of things. Because crossovers are a big deal. When you start to get that same kind of stuff going into more, you know, a cheap sedan, which, you know, the Nissan Versa equivalent of an Eevee, or like a leaf or something, you can still get into these things pretty cheap, if you want to your selection is much smaller. I don't I don't know that it's going to make them a niche market. I don't know that it's going to keep them from I don't know this is going to change them becoming mainstream. Any faster or slower? I don't know. What do you think Sammy think it's going to slow it down?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:20  
No, I don't because, you know, battery prices are coming down. As we said, batteries are the biggest cost driver in an Eevee. The prices have been coming down steadily for the past decade and will continue to drop in the coming years as volumes go up. And the price of the EVS is coming down. Yeah, most of them today are still you know, $40,000 now, but there are there are cheaper ones. Yeah, you can get that Kona, Evie, starting at $34,000. That's before incentives, you know, so you know, 7500 bucks, you're down, you know that 27,000 $20,000 price, price range, GM has said there's going to be a $30,000 Equinox sized crossover coming. In the next couple of years, there's going to be a lot of these vehicles, a lot of EVs, you know, that are going to get down to that 30 and sub $30,000 price point over the next couple of years up, you know, up until now, most of what we've seen, yes has been more premium more expensive, but a lot of what's coming out is actually going to be priced pretty comparably to the equivalent gasoline vehicles. You know, the F 150. Lightning is an exam, you know, you compare the you know, the, you know, equipped, you know, comparably equipped against a gas f150. And third, in some cases, cheaper, you know, the base, the base, lightning Pro is, you know, a couple grand cheaper than a four wheel drive Crewcab f1, 50 XL. So, we, you know, we will see more affordable EVs coming. And I think that that will, even with the incentives potentially going away, you know, we'll we'll still see adoption of those vehicles and increasing numbers, and especially when you consider that, you know, the cost of operating those vehicles. Yeah, the cost for electricity is a lot less than the cost for gasoline. Yeah. Then it just it's people will eventually come to that realization, and we will see, I think we will see them continue to grow.

Nicole Wakelin  1:04:31  
Yeah, I don't I agree. I don't think it's gonna change things that much. So,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:04:36  
all right. Good. AJ on Twitter asked, do GM and Ford still have lots of unfinished trucks sitting in storage and waiting for parts? Are they currently like Toyota? That's shipping tundras. As soon as they come off the assembly line? There are still some the numbers of unfinished trucks are shrinking because they are in some cases they're shipping them minus certain features. And telling customers that as soon as they have the parts available, you know, they can bring them in and they will retrofit them. So, you know, things like, you know, some of the heated seats or features like supercruise, and some other some other options that they're leaving out the ECS for those. And then, you know, once the parts are available, you'll be able to bring them into the dealer and they will, they'll put those parts in and you'll get that functionality back. But, yeah, they're, they're trying to ship as many as they can. There's still some, you know, some out there, but not as much not as much as it was back in June, July.

Nicole Wakelin  1:05:40  
They're making every effort I think, to come up with solutions. Okay, if we can't ship it, right, the second as we want it, how can we at least ship it? You know, so they're there, and they're, they're working with it? You know, it's gonna be a little while before things are normal, but then it gets getting better.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:55  
Now, slowly, slowly. Brianna Wu asked, drive and enjoy a sports car in the snow or treat her like a garage queen and lock her up in the snow. Absolutely drive it. Now, you know, depending on depending on how much snow you know, and how much ground clearance you have. Obviously, that's that's a factor. Yes. But, you know, yeah, put winter tires on it, drive it.

Nicole Wakelin  1:06:18  
Put winter tires on it. I'm a big fan of bliss, X, I love those things, put those on your car, get out there and drive your only obstacle is, is if you have a very, you know, sports car generally low. So if you have that snowbank that's a foot high Well, in your SUV, not a problem in your sports car, you've just buried your nose in the snow. So you have to be a little bit more cautious of that. If it's actively crazy snowing, and there's big berms of snow as you cross from one street to the next. Otherwise, take it out there and drive it. I think the only time I wouldn't is if I had some like crazy highly collectible, you know, limited edition 1952 Whatever, like collectible cars, no, because that means you guarantee some guy's gonna, you know, scrape the bejesus out of your car as he comes barreling through an intersection. But otherwise, take your sports car enjoy it. Yeah. Okay, it goes greyleigh with the idea that like people that buy China and crystal and only use it at Christmas and Thanksgiving, no, enjoy your stuff. Yeah, old's your stuff all the time, if I haven't, and just leave it locked up. Enjoy all the stuff all the time.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:15  
Yeah, do a little research and find out how susceptible your car is to corrosion. Yeah, you know, some, some older cars are more susceptible to corrosion, right? First generation Miatas, you know, did have a tendency to rust if exposed to salt. And so I don't drive my Miata in the wintertime. But I, you know, in the past, you know, when I had a Mustang, you know, couple, a couple of different Mustangs, I drove those things all year round. I put winter tires on, we put winter tires on my daughter's Toyota 86 A month ago, put some put a set of Bloodaxe on there. And you know, they're fine. You know, as long as I'm trying

Nicole Wakelin  1:07:54  
to get I'm trying to get winter tires on to my charger, my wheel drive charger, and we hit an appointment. Here's the the the sort of labor shortage of the day, literally the poor guys at pep guy Pep Boys call me this morning. So we can't put them on. I'm like, Oh, what happened is not one of my guys would come in today. He'd have a single guy who was willing to come into work. He's like, I have to call 17 customers today and tell them all, we can't do the service. They hit schedule, because we have so you know, theoretically, tomorrow they will be on the car when I've tried to get an appointment.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:24  
Yeah. So yeah, no, as long as you know, the the grandparents of your car is adequate for the amount of snow you have. And you put some proper tires on it. There's no reason you know, there's no reason to, to keep it locked up in the winter time. You don't have to be driven. Yeah, Mike, my first job out of college was working for Delco marine on ABS systems. And the first project the first vehicle I was assigned to work on was the Lotus M 100. Alon. No. And we had we also had an Osprey that was already in production with the ABS system that we had in our fleet as a demo car. And you know, I spent lots of time driving those suckers in the snow and that was one of the fun things about working on ABS and traction control and those days. Yeah, you

Nicole Wakelin  1:09:15  
have to go take like go take us out of the worst roads you can find.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:19  
In the wintertime we had North test in the summertime we had south to hot places. Yeah, to find the most

Unknown Speaker  1:09:24  
extreme patchy sun. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:27  
I mean, I've driven a Lamborghini Diablo on a frozen lake in northern Sweden on a snow and ice pad you know driven driven the lawn and a spree around the upper peninsula of Michigan in February. So cool and as long as long as you got the right tires, right? It's a blast. It's a it's it's it's again one of those things where you know, like driving a slow car fast is better than a Fast car slow. You know the limits, you know for us Sports Car are going even with good tires are going to be significantly lower. Yeah, then, you know, on dry pavement. So you know you can, you can get the get the back end coming around. Yeah, be careful, you know, be, you know, be responsible, don't be responsible

Nicole Wakelin  1:10:16  
grown up but have a little fun.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:19  
The you know, Isaac Newton's first law of motion, you know still applies it has not yet been superseded F still equals MA still equals mx un. So, you know, if you have less Mew, you're gonna have less force

Nicole Wakelin  1:10:36  
to engineering thing you've said in ages. That was brilliant.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:40  
But you can you can have, you can have a blast and you know, make sure you you know, take along a toaster or toe strap in the truck. So that if you if you do get stuck, you know, you can get some help. You know, maybe put in a couple of those. I forget what they're called me like traction pads,

Nicole Wakelin  1:10:56  
like Max tracks or something. Yeah, you know, Max tracks in the back of your Miata

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:02  
under the drive wheel, sir. And, you know, use it to help you get out when you get stuck in some deep snow. Yeah, but other nut? Yeah, yeah. Cool. Go have fun.

Nicole Wakelin  1:11:10  
Have at it. Rihanna. Yeah. Alright.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:13  
See, from Wes, he's got a couple of questions. Based on the popularity and usefulness of front and rear dash cams. Do you foresee them as being standard or optional equipment from the OEMs in the near future? Maybe include insurance discounts? What do you think standard dash cams?

Nicole Wakelin  1:11:32  
I can't see them doing? I can't see that. I can see it being aftermarket. I don't think standard. Because most people I mean, you're right, they do help you and they and they can sometimes you're you know, you have that as an insurance issue, then you can prove that the guy cut you off? And you you know, but I don't I don't feel like that would be a standard equipment thing. I don't know. What do you think, Sam?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:11:51  
I don't think so either. Because it's it's something that is helpful after a crash for diagnosing what happened. But it's not really a safety feature that's going to prevent crashes. Right. And as such, I don't see that as something that's going to be mandated. It's just Yeah, I mean, some some manufacturers are building in that functionality. Tesla, for example, you can use the the forward facing cameras as a dash cam. They're part of autopilot. And maybe maybe we will see that maybe we will see. manufacturers include a bit of storage. You know, today, you know, all vehicles have an event data recorder. So when there's a crash that triggers the airbags, it saves about five seconds of data, things like your vehicle speed, acceleration, direction, things like that. And that's that's stored on the vehicle. It's just a running buffer. Whenever you're if your airbags go off, it stores that writes that to the to the memory and saves that for for diagnosis later on. Maybe we'll see something like that, because most new cars do have at least a forward facing camera for Lane Keeping Assist and automatic emergency braking. So there's no reason you couldn't store that data. Just have to add some memory and some software to do that rear facing less likely. You know, and I don't I don't see it. I don't see it as something that's likely to be regulated.

Nicole Wakelin  1:13:24  
Yeah, I don't think so either. Because like you said it, it gives you info after the fact it doesn't actually keep you safer to begin with. So that's not the kind of stuff they generally regulate. So,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:13:34  
yeah. And then his other question, as EVs grow in popularity, cities will start to lose taxes from gas sales. Well, not just cities, but also state everybody. Yeah. And the federal government to this will likely lead to higher taxes on electricity. So from a financial aspect will electric cars become more expensive to use than gasoline vehicles when it comes to energy usage?

Nicole Wakelin  1:13:55  
Haven't it not so much taxes and electricity, but haven't and I think these are already in place in certain areas where there's an extra tax on EVs to cover the what they've lost in the gas tax, like the taxes that you pay there. And Aren't there some proposals where it's like, it's gonna look at the miles that you've driven. So when you go to re register your car, if you drove 5000 miles this year, you will pay an X additional fee as an Eevee that didn't pay any tax and your gases were gas, whereas if you drove 20,000, your tax is going to be that much more because you drove 20,000 miles. So not not changing the price of electricity, so you're not paying more just to do the electricity in your house, but changing how they get those taxes out of an Eevee I see happening.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:37  
Yeah, you know, some some locations do have some states do have a surcharge. When you register your vehicle if it's an Eevee you have to pay an extra 100 $150 A year right on top of your your license plate tags, which offsets the lost revenue from gas taxes. And, you know, something they're doing A bunch of proposals for some sort of VMT tax vehicle miles traveled tax, which, you know, that would be roughly equivalent to a gas tax, you know, I mean, the more miles you drive with a gasoline vehicle, the more gas you're going to use, the more tax you're going to pay. And so, you know, just to having a VMT tax like that, you know, because obviously, also, the more miles you drive, the more wear and tear you're putting on on the road infrastructure, right? I think, I think that that's something like that is a perfectly fair and reasonable thing to do. You know, especially, you know, as EVs become mainstream, you know, that whoever those are using the roads should, should contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of those roads.

Nicole Wakelin  1:15:42  
I agree, I don't think it'll get more expensive, though, who sees it? Well, they become more expensive, I think they might, there might be less of a savings, and there was if they start instituting all these taxes to make up for the gas tax that you're losing, and the extra fees, you know, but I don't think it would take a lot to make the cost of driving that Eevee more expensive than driving

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:03  
the gas. Because Because electricity is still a lot cheaper than even the base price of the fuel before the taxes on it. Yeah, road taxes. So just, you know, the base price of gasoline is still a lot more than the equivalent amount of electricity you're going to use to drive the same distance.

Nicole Wakelin  1:16:21  
And when you think about the other cost savings of having an Eevee where you're not doing you know, oil changes and all that kind of, you know, the other things, the maintenance things you don't have to do for an Eevee that you still have to do for put those into the X to the cost on the gas side. Again, that doesn't you never have to pay that for an Eevee. So it's not, you know, it's not something that's going to get more expensive, you know, there's there's maintenance savings, to having an Eevee that you just that also add into not just the cost of the fuel, whether it's gas or electric.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:50  
Yeah, your overall cost of ownership is still going to have a significant advantage for an Eevee versus a gasoline equivalent vehicle. Right? Especially if you're driving bigger, heavier vehicles. Yep. All right. Last, sorry, two more, Michael Burns s. And this is actually more of a follow up from last time. Regarding the question about why headlights and windshield wipers aren't integrated from the previous episode. They do integrate? Well, they do on some vehicles, some vehicles Yeah, is Michael's 2018 Ram 1500 Has this option in the infotainment configuration for the car, and my 2016 Chrysler Town Country without the older single color configuration menu in the dashboard also has this feature, keep it turned on all the time. It's the law in Georgia. So what he's talking about is whenever the windshield wipers Come on, you'll also want to turn on the headlights for extra visibility. And even though the headlights may not necessarily help you see much better, it helps others see you right. And that's that's the same purpose behind daytime running lamps as to allow others to see you better. So what what the writer to show should have asked is why cars not equipped with automatic courtesy sensors that respond to another driver, like me flashing my lights at you for not having for not driving with your lights on and pouring rain? There go make bank on that feature boss or whoever. That would be a little more complicated to implement to do that reliably. Yeah, I think you know, just having the lights come on automatically with the wipers. That's pretty easy to do. And pretty effective. You know, having something that turns on your lights when somebody flashes their lights at you.

Nicole Wakelin  1:18:46  
Just because like a police car driving their headlights flash like yeah, flashing lights and stuff.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:51  
Like you're like there can be other flashing lights around you. Right.

Nicole Wakelin  1:18:55  
Right. That would be really, it would be that'd be really tough.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:58  
I mean, does it do that reliably?

Nicole Wakelin  1:19:01  
If Bosch has engineers that smart have that at Bosch, but I feel like that's a really that's gonna be a tough one to overcome that way. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:09  
Yeah. All right, last one. This is from drew in Jacksonville. And this is the government and some industry players are pushing all EVs a bit short sighted since they are essentially all coal or natural gas powered right now. I do think that we should be better at using renewable resources. But there is one issue that really gets ignored in most things that I read in here. Namely, if my future options are only an Eevee vehicle, how will I charge it? I don't just mean infrastructure and refueling or the current issue with limited range. What I mean is that I live in a house built in the 1990s. And the breaker panel is full and the garage is full. We have two cars that cannot be stored in the garage, even if we could use one of the open 15 or 20 amp outlets. When I've talked to Tesla fans, they tout the sentry mode, which is the the ability that the autopilot cameras, you know, to use them as security cameras, I live in Florida is the solution to run an extension cord out of the garage to the car in the frequent rain and rely on sentry mode. I live in the suburbs, but they're not without our porch pirates and vandals seems very myopic. I have a Ford Expedition. And I think that the F 150. Lightning looks great. But I struggled with the range in the home charging,

Nicole Wakelin  1:20:22  
well, you can I mean, you can, the charging cord like plug that's attached to the level two charger, you can just plug it in outside and it can be dumping rain in your car is still

Sam Abuelsamid  1:20:34  
the most most of the the wall charger units that you can get the 240 volt chargers are weatherproof, so you can install them on the side of your house inside your garage. You know, if your garage is full, and you can't park your cars in the garage, I mean that's a that's a separate issue. Right? That has nothing to do with EVs. Right? I know people who have that situation, you know, I have two cars parked in my two car garage. But you know, that that's a separate issue. But yeah, you can you can certainly mount you know, the the wall, the wall box on the outside of the house, you know, or, or even just have a 240 volt outlet, outside, you know, with in a in a box on the the side of the house or the side of the garage. So you can park it outside.

Nicole Wakelin  1:21:23  
You know, and when he's talking about like vandals like porch pirates is okay, so that they would come

Sam Abuelsamid  1:21:30  
flooding and do like pulling your driveway and use your plug to charge them

Nicole Wakelin  1:21:33  
like or just be like malicious and unplug your car for kicks and giggles because they could also just be malicious and do something nasty to your gas vehicle. I don't think that changes the nature of the guy who's a jerk who wants to mess with your car. I'm not quite sure I follow that. But you can I mean, you you don't need an extension cord is not what you're supposed to do. That was I think every single thing will say don't just, you know, plug your card an extension cord. That's not what they recommend. I don't think for a single Eevee. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:00  
yeah, it's not it's not really not safe, it's also less efficient, you're gonna

Nicole Wakelin  1:22:03  
write and it's not random to, to do that. So they would tell you not to do that none of them want you to do that. But you can, you know, put a level two charger either in your garage or just outside your garage and plug it in and, you know, plug your car in. And, you know, I guess technically someone could steal your Evie charger, put it in the garage and run it outside, you know, run the little plug outside the garage and plug in your Eevee Yeah, that would work too.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:27  
Yeah, you can there's there's a lot of ways to deal with that. Yeah, that, you know, as far as you know, if your breaker panel is full, you know, I mean, that can that can be upgraded, there's obviously a cost associated with that. And you know, that can be, it can be fairly costly. I mean, if you're talking about replacing your panel, if you don't have any available slots in your breaker panel, then you know that that can be a few $1,000. I think, in most cases, depending on how much capacity you have coming into the house and how much you're using, you may be able to add just an auxiliary panel. So you don't necessarily have to replace your entire existing panel, you can add a second auxiliary panel, just with breakers for your charging outlet. So that's, you know, there are solutions for that there are ways, you

Nicole Wakelin  1:23:14  
know, would require like you have a house that was built in the 90s. I have a house that was built in the 70s, we had our panel replaced two years ago just for other reasons. But you know, it's one of the things you as the 90s get further back there, you do have to do upgrades and especially older houses, just in general, because of the number of electronic things we have in our home, forget cars, you've got, you know, computers, and you've got you know, your Wi Fi and you've got everything, you know, you've got three TVs instead of one and you're charging your phones and you're charging your laptop. There's a lot, you know, upgrades are required for the usage of electric in older homes. And I think probably going forward one of those upgrades if people were upgrading a panel, as EVs become more and more than norm, I can see it being much more likely that an electrician would say, okay, so when you get an Eevee or for an Eevee you need to do this. Do you want to do that now? You know, I feel like because they make suggestions. That's

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:08  
gonna be a one time purchase as well. Once you've done that, then you know when you replace your Eevee with another Eevee you don't have to do that again. Right.

Nicole Wakelin  1:24:18  
It's done. It works. You're all set. You don't have to do it again. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:21  
And then the last thing I wanted to address was the the source of electricity. Just to be on the safe side. I did actually look up on the the Energy Information Agency website, which is part of the Department of Energy, the utility scale electric electricity generation in the US in 2020. Out of four c four, no not gigawatt for the 4000 gigawatt hours a year. I think that that's what I'm asked anyway, out of the total electricity utility scale electricity that was generated in 2020 in the US Roughly 40% Little, almost little shy of 41% of that came from natural gas 19% came from coal, coal, coal generation has been declining steadily for a long time, and will continue to decline, we actually had more energy in 20 generated from nuclear was 19.7% versus 19.3. From coal, and 19.8% came from renewables, renewables.

Nicole Wakelin  1:25:27  
So it is moving already, it's already moving in the right direction. And it's, you know, as things get upgrade, you know, infrastructure upgrades are huge. So as things as old things sort of need to be replaced, then the new things that often come in are more renewable, more, you know, efficient aren't relying on things like said, Sam, like coal is just disappearing as those coal plants are being replaced with other better options for the environment. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:51  
keep in mind, this is just for utility scale generation, this does not include distributed energy resources. So people that have solar panels on their house businesses that have solar panels, you know, under factories, or warehouses or wherever, you know, all all that distributed energy resources is not included in this. So if you add in all of that solar and the numbers are better, even, then you're up closer to somewhere, I think 25 or 26%. Already coming from renewables. Wow. And it's it's been growing steadily for for more than a decade now. So, you know, the, those numbers will continue to get better as we go forward. There you go. Alright, that's it for this week. And this, I think, be the last show for 2021. Wow, yeah, the next one will be a new year 2022. And hopefully we'll have Robbie back for that one. So, see you next time. Bye, guys.