Sam Abuelsamid 0:01 Coming up on episode 230 of wheel bearings, you've got the 2022 Nissan Pathfinder, the Honda Civic sport and the new Civic Type bar, the North American car, truck and utility vehicle the Year awards for 2022. The past was garbage. Ballinger cancels the pickup and SUV, all that and more coming up next. Sam Abuelsamid 0:28 This is episode 230 of wheel bearings. I'm Sam Abuelsamid. From guidehouse insights. Nicole Wakelin 0:34 I am Nicole Wakelin from AutoByTel Roberto Baldwin 0:38 and I am Roberto Baldwin from Engadget Sam Abuelsamid 0:41 writes, well, since Robbie apparently didn't drive anything this week, and Nicole was still scrambling to figure out how much her car cost. I will wait, let's Nicole Wakelin 0:53 be clear, I'm scrambling to figure out because I pulled them in Roni out of the glove box sat down and I'm like, that's not the car. This goes wrong information in the car. So I'm trying to build it to find out exactly how much it cost. So Sam Abuelsamid 1:06 I didn't say it was your fault. Or you're scrambling I just clarify. Roberto Baldwin 1:10 Here's an 87. Chrysler LeBaron Monroney. Nicole Wakelin 1:14 A Chrysler LeBaron I'm pretty sure that's the wrong one. Sam Abuelsamid 1:17 What do we got sitting here? Oh, this'll work. It's close. Unknown Speaker 1:22 numbers. Nicole Wakelin 1:24 So be good showing it? Yeah. Okay. Sam Abuelsamid 1:26 All right. So I had the 2022 Nissan Pathfinder, Platinum four wheel drive in scarlet Ember Tintcoat, which is a great color. The Pathfinder is Nissan's three row crossover. It got a complete redesign last year, and it shares its platform with the Infiniti QX 60, which we've talked about previously as well. And the, the previous generation Pathfinder was should we put this sometime? Roberto Baldwin 2:06 It was a car. Yeah, I'm sorry. It was, Sam Abuelsamid 2:10 you know, it was inoffensive to the point of being almost invisible. But the new one is much more interesting to look at, you know, I think it's, it's not it. It's adopted, you know, Nissan's latest design language like what we see on the, the rogue, you know, it's got crisper lines, it's a little more squared off than before, you know, bolder grill as you would expect, since it is in fact, 2022. So you got to have more grill, but not but not excessively, too much grill. So, this one, you know, they went back that when the Pathfinder first launched back in the 80s, you know, it was a body on frame, you know, true SUV. It was not a front wheel drive, unibody crossover type of vehicle like it is today. But, you know, there's still some love out there in the community for those original pathfinders. And so they incorporated a few design Deaton cues from that one. You can see in the in the C pillars, you know that those original Pathfinders had the triangular window between the B and the C pillar and the forward leaning C pillar there and it had in the front of the hood they had three slots, which was never quite clear what they were for. Apparently, I guess it needed extra cooling that you couldn't get through the grill which wasn't large enough then but they sort of incorporated that into the the grille of the the new one. So it looks a little more SUV like them before. It's a sharp looking vehicle. It's it's fine. The interior is way improved over the old one, as we've seen with other recent Nissan's, particularly in this Platinum trim level. It's got nice leather, seating surfaces, soft touch materials. One of one of my long running big complaints with Nissan's over the last 789 years was really terrible infotainment displays that you know, they were dim they had suffered from a lot of glare. Now it's it's a much brighter, better, easier to use display, it's more responsive, still got the same basic interface. So if you if you've driven a Nissan in the last six or seven years you'll be quite familiar with this one. It does have support for wireless CarPlay Apple CarPlay but not for wireless Android Auto. So if you're using an Android phone you do have to plug it in. But it does come with both USB A the the old rectangular and the USBC ports both in the first and second rows. And one of the really nice features of both the the Pathfinder and the QX 60. is the second row seats are designed to make it easier to get into the third row. So they they, they flip forward from the front edge of the seat. So it slides forward and hinges forward. And you don't have to fold the second row seat backs down to get that seat forward so you can get into the back, the whole thing just tilts forward. So if you are using child seats or booster seats or anything like that infant seats, you can leave those in place and still tilt the seat forward, which I think is a really handy feature if you're going to use that third row. And even if you're not, you know, it still makes it easier to get into the third row. There's the version that I have has the second row captain's chairs with a little console in between the second row seats, which is removable. So you can also have, if you don't want to use that console, you can have a pass through to get to the third row in between the seats. Another handy feature, as with many recent Nissan's, you know, this is still powered by an updated version of the classic v Q, V six 3.5 liters 284 horsepower and 259 pounds feet of torque, you know, still still a great engine. But for this one, they ditched the CVT and went to a nine speed automatic transmission, which is also on the infinity. So it's a great great transmission, very smooth shifting, you know, good good response, responsiveness from the transmission. And just general acceleration from the vehicle. It's got the Nissan's intelligent four wheel drive, you know, basically, it's a it's an all wheel drive system that can do some locking and torque vectoring front to rear. What else 20 inch alloys on the Platinum trim level. Fuel economy is you know, is okay. Unknown Speaker 7:12 It's you know, it's Sam Abuelsamid 7:12 not great. The EPA, fuel economy rating is 20 City 25 highway 22 combined. I've been averaging about 19 It has been excuse me a particularly cold week here. So that does tend to bring fuel economy down. And we'll talk a little bit more about that later in the q&a as a question relates to that with EVs. But that you know, I did a fairly lengthy highway trip the other day to go visit someone and it was still only getting about 19 miles per gallon even on the highway. So not not that impressive on the fuel economy. But otherwise, it's generally a really nice three row crossover all in the the one I'm driving $51,790 including an $1,175 destination charge so Nissan is at least keeping it not to and saying with the the destination chargers not like some other automakers Roberto Baldwin 8:11 they broken $1,000 barrier Nicole Wakelin 8:13 Yeah, I was actually the destination chargers funny I have to look that up for one site specifically and pull that out for every single story right? And what's amazing is every single one is going up like 200 300 I've had some go up as much as $400 for the same car last year over this year with nothing just same car same everything $400 gone from Sam Abuelsamid 8:33 the same factory to the same destination Nicole Wakelin 8:34 actually nothing has changed the model is still the same the factories still the same the destination still the same $4 Extra together. Roberto Baldwin 8:41 Yeah everything's the same except for you now you're paying more money for Sam Abuelsamid 8:45 yeah yeah. So that the view you guys drove in the Pathfinder Nicole Wakelin 8:54 I did I drove it when they did the launch a while back for the for this new one and they even let us take it off road a little bit. Which is kind of fun because it's not really an off road vehicle. I mean, like you can but you're not gonna you're not gonna Wrangler Rubicon nothing like it's it's it's not that kind of offer. But you know what still like we it was, it was perfectly capable of the average you know, I'm driving on the dirt road God cabin for a weekend, but they did have a score of over a little bit of sketchy dirt. You know, it was a little bit loose. He had a little tight turn. He had some little, you know, uneven rocks, you had to pay attention to what you were doing and keep up a little thing sort of impressed. I didn't think it would. They took us over train that was a little bit more aggressive than I probably would have ever taken the Pathfinder over and it was totally fine. Like the whole crew all of us made it through with no problems. So that was kind of cool. I liked it. I thought it was good. I liked the improvements that they made. They made little improvements everywhere. I didn't feel like there was any giant leap forward like oh my gosh, this is miles better than the old one but it's like little better, a little better, a little better, a little better, which is kind of what you want. Like all all tall I thought it was is a better vehicle than it was before? Roberto Baldwin 10:02 Yeah, I drove it a few weeks ago months ago. I don't know if time doesn't make any sense anymore. And yeah, no, it's it feels much better. Well much it feels better than the previous version and yet it's not really an off road. Like you said, you'd go to the cabin, you know it snows, you're fine. If you want to go up to the you know, you want to go up to Mountain Dew snowboarding. Yeah, this is gonna be fine. You know, like you said, you're not doing the Rubicon Trail or anything like that. Yeah, no, it's it's a nicer car inside and out. And in talking about the old Nissan path, I remember the old one came out I was in high school. And we that was one of those cars that years like, oh, you lusted over, at least in my town. It was pretty. It was pretty cool. It was cool because I had that generation and it had that they had the hidden the hidden rear door handle, which was always crazy because the chicken tax I think you can what? You can't you couldn't sell you got there was this crazy tariff on two door SUVs in the United States for imports. So have you ever seen like a two door SUV from any buddy? That's not an American automaker in the United States? Sam Abuelsamid 11:11 No. It's not up for a long time anyway. Roberto Baldwin 11:15 Yeah, I think they finally phased out the chicken tax I Nicole Wakelin 11:19 what I'm what I'm questioning is why is it called the chicken tax? Sam Abuelsamid 11:22 It goes back to the 1960s there was a little bit of a trade tiff between the US and Europe. And it were they were the Europeans imposed a tariff on us chicken. And so in retaliation, the US imposed tariffs a 25% tariff on imported light trucks. Nicole Wakelin 11:49 Really? Yeah. And we're not aware of this little chicken tip that we Sam Abuelsamid 11:53 know Okay, ultimately, I don't think it had a huge impact on Europe because they they weren't building a whole lot of light trucks It was mostly vans and things like that. But the the Japanese were much more impacted by it, which is why you know, one of the first vehicles that Nissan started building in the US when they started building vehicles here was the the pickup trucks the compact pickups, which the hard body, the hard body and then the frontier. And that's why Toyota builds the Tacomas because the chicken tax actually is still in effect. And one of the weird particularly weird anomalies caused by the chicken tax was when Ford started bringing in the the Transit Connect back 10 years ago, yeah, they the tax the tariff only applies to you know, what they classified as commercial vehicles. So, you know, pickups SUVs, but not to straight up passenger vehicles. So what Ford did when at the time the the Transit Connect was being built at their plant in Turkey was later moved to Spain. But when they when they import the transit connects to the US, they brought them all in as passenger vans. So you know, they had full windows all around seats, you know, second and third row seats and only once they arrived in the US and had cleared customs then they would convert them back to two cargo vans for the ones that were going to sell as cargo vans so they took out the the doors that had windows in them they took out the rear windows put installed steel panels in there took out the seats got you know gutted most of the the back of the interior to sell those as cargo vans, and they they took those extra components basically just throw them away. Oh my gosh, yeah. Roberto Baldwin 13:57 Crazy. The more you know, Nicole Wakelin 14:01 the more you know little Sam Abuelsamid 14:08 Okay, turn Nicole. Nicole Wakelin 14:10 Okay, so, guys, I was I tried to build pricing, I can't figure out exactly how much the price on this one is. So we're gonna get the listed price on the website because I can't build this whole thing together. So what I had was the 2022 Honda Civic sport, the hatchback. It has a two liter four cylinder 150 horsepower, 138 pound feet of torque and a CVT. You can get it with a turbocharged 1.5 liter they take you up to 180 horsepower and 177 pound feet if you so choose the sporty or sportiness of that particular engine. Even without that one it's still a fun little thing to drive. It's not like you're driving a great big SUV. It's a pretty compact vehicle. It's It's comfy I like driving this is this is a fun car to drive. And I love the interior. They have a pattern on the dashboard where the vents are that This honeycomb pattern that goes all the way across, it's just kind of neat. I like that it's this nice sort of nifty interior detail is, that makes it look a little bit different. Instead of all the, you know, the hexagonal everything, you know, just the boring kind of, you know, you've just got little swoopy lines, like now we're gonna put this honeycomb pattern across our whole dashboard. It's really cool. I like that. Very comfortable, easy to drive, I've taken it back and forth into Boston a couple of times, we'll be taking it down an hour into Boston after this podcast, once again. So it is comfortable rear seats pretty good. I mean, you can technically squish three people back there, but I think you're probably only going to want to put two people back there. My teenage daughter sits behind my husband who is six feet tall, and she was fine. But I can imagine if you had three adults across your shoulder room's gonna get a little on the snug side. So yeah, five question mark. Really, really we're looking at more like for it has that hatchback which is great if cargo is your thing. You know, there's it's available as a sedan. But really, if you haven't, if you don't like it doesn't make that much of a difference. If you're going to be hauling random cargo, like if you're younger, and you think you're going to be hauling your stuff from one apartment to the next or something. Or it is so much easier to deal with a hatchback because you can just shove anything in there. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is the ultimate like you'd like I don't want an SUV. I don't need that much. But I want a little bit of flexibility then find yourself a hatchback like this because it makes it so much easier. I love that. I think that's just when I it's funny when I am in so many SUVs. And that when I get just a sedan and I go to put something in the trunk, it's like, oh, it's just a trunk, I can't just jam. It stops and there's like a roof sort of it's so hatchbacks serve, I love them, for people who are sort of moving from one spot to another from dorms to apartments, from apartments to condos, from condos, if you're moving around a lot, these are they're a fantastic choice. And the thing with the Civic is it starts at 2350, the sport that I was driving is 24 550, which is still a pretty reasonable price given to that you are getting a Honda and the reliability ratings on these things are fantastic. And the resale values are fantastic. They're really the kind of car that you decide. You decide you're done with 100 Because you're just tired of it. It's fine. It works. Everything is perfectly acceptable. You've just had enough and you're like, Oh, you've done your job for me Have at it with some other person. But it's just the reliability is insane. You know, you rarely have to get rid of it. Because like I just gave up the ghost. No, you gave up on the Honda. The Honda is Sam Abuelsamid 17:43 fine. Yeah, daughter had drove her 2008 fit sport for 13 years. Mm hmm. Roberto Baldwin 17:52 And you're just like, Okay, we're tired of it was it? Nicole Wakelin 17:54 It's fine. It's just it's totally everything's great. You're just like, I want something else. I've had it long enough. Roberto Baldwin 18:00 Do something else. Yeah, I'm Nicole Wakelin 18:02 ready to move on. I've changed. You've changed. Let's move on. So yeah, so I am a big fan of the Honda Civic. I think this is a great option. I would it was fully redesigned this year. In fact, it was just named the 2022 North American Car of the Year. So that's kind of a big deal. So it was you know, all new and very, very well received. Sam Abuelsamid 18:27 That just to clarify the the 1.5 liter turbo is if you want that in a sport you have to get the sport touring, Nicole Wakelin 18:35 which is yes you do. I'm sorry. You do have to Yeah, you have to move up a trim level to the sport touring it's not technically on the sport. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Sam Abuelsamid 18:42 Yeah, because they've got on the hatchback they've got four trim levels, the LX Sport XL and the sport touring and the sport touring starts at 29 850 right not including delivery. So Nicole Wakelin 18:54 which is by the way $1,015 Sam Abuelsamid 18:57 Yeah, and that's so that's that's what I drove a couple of weeks ago was the sport touring and the you know the sports got the older naturally aspirated two liter turbo which is our two liter four cylinder not a turbo Nicole Wakelin 19:10 I like you're naturally aspirated turbo That was a trick there Roberto Baldwin 19:14 I'm actually the turbo is naturally aspirated Nicole Wakelin 19:18 but yeah, so yeah, if you do want to go with the you know more power from the engine you do have to jump up what is it about $5,000 in price so if you want to do that it's five grand but you're getting more obviously than just the engine because you're getting something that's it's literally two trims higher in the lineup, but that is out there but the thing is, I don't feel like this the engine the powertrain in the sport is just fine. It doesn't feel lacking you don't feel like it doesn't accelerate enough you don't feel like you're you know under pressure to merge into heavy highway traffic. So yeah, you're gonna get more if you move up the lineup and yes, the interior is going to get nicer you get fancier features, but you really don't feel driving the sport like you're suffering driving a base model by any means. Roberto Baldwin 19:57 And if you get the hatchback sport, you can get a manual transmission Yeah. And so that you just wring the power right out as much as you want. That's where that's exactly. That's the money move. Yeah. Where you save money? Nicole Wakelin 20:08 Yes, you saved money. Well, Sam Abuelsamid 20:10 I don't think you actually I think they don't you don't save any money because they charge the same price now for both. Roberto Baldwin 20:16 Oh, no, it versus the turbo. Yeah. Nicole Wakelin 20:19 Yeah. Like have fun. Yeah. Have your fun by putting the manual transmission in the sport versus paying five grand to have your turbo in the sport Tory Sam Abuelsamid 20:27 and yeah, Honda does great. Manual transmissions. Yeah. Are very slick shifting. They're fantastic. Yeah, no, I agree. I really, like, you know, aside from the styling, being a little more sedate, you know, as we talked about last time, being more sedate than the, the the previous generation. You know, everything else about it is fantastic. You know, there's there's plenty of room for adults in the back seat in terms of head room and leg room, as you said, you know, it's obviously not as wide as you know, some bigger, bigger cars. But, you know, two adults can easily sit very comfortably in the backseat. And one of the things I like about the the Civic Hatchback that they originally initially did on the previous generation model, and they've carried over to this one, you know, on most hatchbacks you'd have, you know, the cargo cover, that you know, if you're carrying larger objects, you know, it usually hooks onto the, the the underside of the hatch, and you know, behind the the back seats, and if you want to put larger stuff in there, you got to unhook that you got to figure out somewhere to stash that Roberto Baldwin 21:31 all crooked up, don't mess it up, because you like shove something on top of it by Nicole Wakelin 21:35 accident, you get a little cord that latches it hooked on something and Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 21:41 On the Civic, they, it's actually got just a retracting cover that slides over to the left side. So you can pull it out. You know, kind of like a, you know, blinds, you know, just pull it across, hook it on on the right hand side, when you're not using it. You just don't hook it that slides back in. It's out of the way. Very, very easy to use no hassle. It's just it's a really cool little feature that I'd really liked on our civic. Nicole Wakelin 22:09 Cool. It's little things like that, that make a car much more usable and much easier in daily life. It really is the little things that matter. Roberto Baldwin 22:17 It is yeah, yeah. I Yeah. Yeah. Three, three Honda's. I had the Civic, a 90 Honda Civic that I drove for 15 years and I sold it to a friend because he was in he was his life was not going well. And I thought I'd be a nice person, some inexpensive. My car. I had a Dell soul which someone pulled out in front of and I ran into him. And then we had a my wife had a CRV we lived that we moved back to San Francisco and we had the CRV and a WR x and we had to sell one of them because we didn't need two cars because we mostly just took the bus everywhere. And so we sold the CRV which somebody owned until they actually they got into an accident with it. So they'll just keep going until you slam. Nicole Wakelin 23:00 We had we've had a civic we had two civic hybrids. We had a CRV back in the day and we had an element. Sam Abuelsamid 23:10 Oh, of course the Integra which is which is Nicole Wakelin 23:13 technically a Honda Yeah, but the the element is the one that I'm like, Oh, I miss that one Roberto Baldwin 23:19 element I have my brother owns an element. He brought it new he keeps in immaculate shape. And I tell him he's not allowed to sell it before I get I get right to first refusal. Refusal comes Yeah, I'm his older brother. So this is what you these are the rules. Nicole Wakelin 23:35 This is how life works. Roberto Baldwin 23:38 He had a he had I think it had radiator cap issue the other day and I'm like, well if you just don't want the car, you know, I'll come Nicole Wakelin 23:46 I'll take it for you. Roberto Baldwin 23:47 I'm good. It's fine. Nicole Wakelin 23:50 Does that then how long has he had? Unknown Speaker 23:51 I don't know Sam Abuelsamid 23:55 eight or so that they stopped building those Roberto Baldwin 23:57 so I probably got it like 2006 or seven maybe 2005 The neighbors across the street have one so I'm always on the lookout to see if they're going to put a for sale sign on it. They use it all the time. They have like a Mercedes and Nicole Wakelin 24:12 2011 is the final year of production. So yeah, it's at the very least 11 years old probably like you said older than that. I got a couple years earlier. Roberto Baldwin 24:22 Yeah, there was one for sale when I first moved out here to the suburbs for $4,500 but it was it was in rough shape. And now that car keep that person by sell for 7000 the used cars used car prices I could sell my BRC right now for what I paid for it. Nicole Wakelin 24:42 I just looked at Roberto Baldwin 24:45 or more than what I paid for it actually. Nicole Wakelin 24:47 She has a she has a 16 Reo curio bass bit like it has crank windows for crying out loud. And on the mark. We looked it up Craig's gonna crank the window. Right see to crank the windows it has nothing If there was a feature you could exclude, she excluded it and the thing I got a curveball, I clicked just for, like kicks one and Carvana thing has I think about 40,000 miles on it. $16,000 Yeah. $1,000 for a Kia Rio from 2016 that has crank windows. Sam Abuelsamid 25:20 I just saw something yesterday that average transaction prices on used cars is now up to $30,000. Roberto Baldwin 25:28 It's Oh my god. Yeah, I could probably sell my BRC for 21,000 2017 It's only 2014 It's only got 40 ish 41,000 miles on it. So doesn't have a lot of miles. It's yeah, it's the fun car. You go out and drive. Nicole Wakelin 25:43 Like a halfway decent car and you don't need it. You're like, I wonder if I should sell it sell it, Roberto Baldwin 25:47 but I could sell it and then turn around and try it buy a new BRC, which starts at like 30,000. Except for Nicole Wakelin 25:53 you have if you have that extra car like you're like, do we really need two cars if you don't really need to, like now's the time to make number, the second one go away and just stick the money in the bank or something. And then eventually, in a year or two years, whatever, if you need a second car, you can buy my prices get more. It's more. Roberto Baldwin 26:12 I still got the JAG net around yesterday. It has the best stereo system, the cars we own. Nicole Wakelin 26:19 Keeping your car stereo system. I'm sorry, this car is falling apart. But the stereo honey, Roberto Baldwin 26:23 it's all wheel drive. And the dogs fit in the back. It's a sedan. They're like they like the back. It's nice and comfortable. And it's okay. It's got a stir. It's got a CD player. Yeah, Nicole Wakelin 26:34 you player. Sam Abuelsamid 26:36 This was a story in Motor Trend this the other day from CarGurus data. At the end of 20 December 2020. Average Price of used cars was $22,837. By December 2001 is $30,620. Roberto Baldwin 26:54 It's it I see I looked it up and now like the next like few weeks, I'm just going to be thinking about whether or not she still might be RZ and then wait until wait a year and then buy a new BRC because I always want to buy like a second year model. And hopefully the prices will go back there won't be that $15,000 markup like I found the other day at the Subaru dealership here in the Bay Area. Sam Abuelsamid 27:17 Yeah, 15 grand on a BRC Roberto Baldwin 27:19 15 grand on a br xe Sam Abuelsamid 27:23 That's nuts. Yeah, Roberto Baldwin 27:25 I put on Twitter. They don't care. Like people who deal with who have dealt with that dealership like oh, yeah, they do that all the time. Nicole Wakelin 27:31 And they're only gonna do it like we talked about this last week. They're only gonna do it. If somebody pays for it. Like they didn't think they could sell it. They wouldn't do it. They're like somebody who's gonna do it? Roberto Baldwin 27:40 Well, it's funny. They have three in stock why? They had three in stock and all the other dealerships around had nothing. Sam Abuelsamid 27:48 That's why they that's why they're the only ones left. Yeah, Roberto Baldwin 27:51 everyone else bought them. And now they're like, Well, you know, no one else has them. Kick up the price. Sam Abuelsamid 27:59 Alright, well, since we were talking about the Civic and North American Car of the Year, why don't we start with you and Nicole, our resident member of the nactoy jury and talk about vehicles that won the North American car, truck and utility vehicle of the Year awards. Yeah, so Nicole Wakelin 28:17 we announced them last Tuesday in Detroit. And the 2022 Honda Civic was the car of the year, the Ford Maverick won for Truck of the Year and the Ford Bronco won for utility vehicle years. So Ford walked away with two wins, which is pretty cool for them. They were pretty excited. And I had to say thank you to Sam because I had to pronounce the name of the executive that won this and we don't know. Until we read the card. I'm like, Oh God, I see his name. Cool. hotrod I only use it because they haven't figured it out. He's like, got to see it many times. Sam Abuelsamid 28:57 Kumar Go hacia. He's the president of the Americas for Nicole Wakelin 28:59 Yes. And you can't pry like and I'm like all the names for anybody who because there's three different potential because you got three finalists, and until you open up that little card, you don't know who won. So those were our three winners. So four walks away with two very happily and Honda walks away with one and I you know, the numbers were out there for how much were the jurors voted like how many not individually, but the totals for each vehicle and the vehicles that won won handily. It wasn't like it was even close. They really won. A lot of people were questioning and you know, I don't know the answer to this. It's not like I have some secret insider information as to why the EVS that were eligible didn't win. But you know, there's it's not like, people were thinking, Oh, you snubbed DVS. And like, Well, no, we technically quote snub two vehicles in every category every year because only one can win. It has to be one. So you're, you know, you can't you can't win them all, no matter how good all the vehicles that are up are for each category and I just think I'm pretty cool. With the results, I don't look at it and think like, Oh, these are terrible. I'm sure somebody does. I'm sure some people are thinking they were horrible, awful bad choices. But isn't that how it words works? It's like you're you're one of the you're you're quarterbacking from the living room on a Sunday that you could have done it better than everybody else. But I think that they were good choices. I was pleased with him. And also in case you're wondering, that trophy has to weigh at least 500 pounds. So if you ever win this award, or you have to pick it up, man, it is do some training in advance. It really isn't like, you know, like like, a melted Roberto Baldwin 30:32 down the short block. Nicole Wakelin 30:36 Of like, engineers just making the shape of a car. It's like you feel like it's like from clue like, you know, Colonel Mustard in the library with a candlestick. It's like no coal Wakelin on the stage with a nactoy. Trophy. Like you could kill me with this thing. It's huge. Sam Abuelsamid 30:49 It's a beautiful trophy those gorgeous years ago. Nicole Wakelin 30:53 Yeah, it's an absolutely beautiful trophy. It really really is. It really is lovely. So yeah, so three, I think three worthy vehicles. One, they were all vehicles that I personally was impressed with and was not surprised to see the winners, you know, you know, like I said, You never really know until they win. But I was not surprised with the winners. Would you guys think? Do they Roberto Baldwin 31:10 did I just a question, because I'm in no World Car of the Year. So I'm wondering, do you guys have to drive the car in order to vote for it? Because we're not allowed? That's okay. I'm just curious. Because the EVS I think are it was tougher to get into a rivian. And it's tougher to get to the ionic five. And rivian Nicole Wakelin 31:23 is for people who were asking that question rivian actually brought a car 202 The thing right to it. So we drive in, we have a day in Detroit, where we drive in Michigan, where we drive all the vehicles, it's like a two day drive. And rivian had two vehicles there. Lucid was trying to get a vehicle and didn't but they really made an effort to get all of us some seat time in that car. They had a program that they ran last minute, literally for jurors, like if you want some time, they reached out to people who live in Detroit, I live, you know, an hour north of Boston, and they said, Nicole, if you're free this day, we'll fight in New York. So you can spend the day driving, can we do this? So I got some time in it well, so they really made an effort to make sure that, you know, many, as many and I guess that could have affected some, I don't know that every year and like Canadian juris didn't get in a lot of things this year just because of the nature of COVID. And who can cross the border. But I give Lucet a lot of credit for making the effort to at least give us the opportunity to get some time, because we're not gonna vote for a car that all I've done has been like, well, it looks good on paper. Like that's now Sam Abuelsamid 32:21 I heard from a couple of other jurors that, especially from for the Canadian jurors, most of them had not driven either the rivian or the lucid. And so that that definitely hurt them. I think Nicole Wakelin 32:35 I can Yeah, I'm sure did. And there was just that was just one of those, you know, unfortunately, the nature of the world that we're in at the moment, there was no way to overcome that I even heard about you know, there were efforts to try to get things across the border from various OEMs and to make things happen, and it was, you know, unfortunately a challenge. I guess they could never come I don't that could that have affected why those vehicles didn't win? Sure. But who knows? I don't know, you know, I don't know if well, there's Roberto Baldwin 33:03 still mentioned in the thing. And also, just because it's North America truck or the aircraft here doesn't mean you have to buy it. It's not like that. Yeah, Nicole Wakelin 33:11 exactly. Totally. Now, everybody else, forget it. These are the only three vehicles which you can buy. We're just saying just Sam Abuelsamid 33:16 being nominated is yes. Nicole Wakelin 33:19 But it is when you look at the number of vehicles that are that are eligible to get into the top three, that's something I mean, it's 50 jurors, it's a lot of vehicles to choose from. So getting into the top three, you're still not seeing that, you know, and considering that think about that for a second, lucid is a brand new company, they have one vehicle out there, it's not beer, even very much of it out there as of this writing. And yet still, they were one of the top three vehicles. So it's not like NACTO is like their DVDs. This is a flash in the pan. We're not considering this like no, they Roberto Baldwin 33:52 do. Yeah. I mean, it's a brand new company. And the fact that they're like both of those are brand new companies that they've they have they they're above these established automakers who have, you know, trucks out there and sedans out there. And then you have these two brand companies really, they're just just started building cars. Like Nicole Wakelin 34:15 it's like, if there were classes in a race, it's like no, we're not going to put you against the new kids. rivian we're gonna put chickens Ford have fun. Yeah, like, you know, it's not like small competition. You have to get up there. You're you're you're with a company that it's been around and builds the kind of quality products that a company that has been around for that long builds. That yeah, something for me and and for lucid and Sam Abuelsamid 34:38 for lucid. Yeah. And, you know, to be fair, this was the first time that there have been EVs as finalists in all three categories. You know, so there was the there was the potential that you could have three EVs winning this year. Yeah, it didn't happen. But you know, it was it was possible. I'm curious, you know, for you, you know, you said you You agreed with the choices and each one? Are these the ones that you gave most of your votes to. Because I think if I understand correctly, you know, for the finals, you get to cast 10 votes and split them. Among the three however you want, Nicole Wakelin 35:13 you get to you have you're given 1010 points, now you're putting them. To me, that doesn't seem right, but 10 points, like, Wait, how many points it you're dispersed those points, I have more than one jury that I'm voting for. And I'm like, Wait, nactoy 10, right. You, you are allowed to disperse those however you want. In the final vote, if you want to give if you if you want to completely exclude one of those vehicles, for example, because you didn't drive it, you can do that if you want to just even if you drove all three in a given category, and you want to give all the points, you know, this is your favorite you can you can choose to distribute those points however you want. And I think everybody kind of does that. It's it's hard to it is hard to look at those, that category and say like, because I drove everything. So I had my choice of all three in every one of those categories. And to say one was so good that the other deserve nothing. I couldn't do like I get some points to each vehicle. I allocated more to some then to others. But I there was not a single vehicle on there that didn't get some points. I just looked in each category and said Who do I think deserves the of these, you know, who did who deserves the most? Who's the who impressed me for whatever reasons for the quality, the innovation, the design, you know, who had the right was new for the market and had it had something different or unique or elevated the segment and still manages to be a value for what it is offering to consumers. There's there's a lot to consider. So but yeah, you can spread out those points however you want to among each of the three categories. Roberto Baldwin 36:44 I wonder if it had been different if the ionic five had been a car because you know, Hyundai's like it's an SUV and you look at it like it's a car fine. Nicole Wakelin 36:53 It's so hard with all this. You're like you're like what, you know, is there a definitive answer for what's an SUV in a car anymore? There's Roberto Baldwin 36:59 just marketing. And that's what they marketed as a car. The critics just said hey, look at the new ionic five hatchback, but then they knew that people are like, Oh, well, I don't know. I don't want a hatchback I want an SUV Nicole Wakelin 37:09 Exactly. See because the SUV segment is more popular. So do you want to release a brand new Eevee as a car you want to release a brand new Eevee as a as a an SUV, then you're probably gonna say SUV because more people are going to consider it in the first place. Yeah, and it's solid. I mean, I thought I loved how I like that car. Roberto Baldwin 37:26 I really love. I love that car. Nicole Wakelin 37:28 I think the attics are really good. Yeah, it's a good vehicle. I truly liked it. So there was nothing honestly there was in any category, there is no vehicle that I personally looked at and said, I have no idea how this got here. It doesn't belong. This is ridiculous. Like no single one had to read every single one had a reason to be there. Like, yeah, there was something to recommend it. You're like this did this fairly? Well, this did that really? Well. There was a reason for every single vehicle to be in the place that it was in the first place. There's no Roberto Baldwin 37:59 you moments. Yeah, there were Nicole Wakelin 38:00 no moments, nothing that I went would was I on a different page than everybody else? Sam Abuelsamid 38:07 Yeah, no, it was, it was definitely a very strong field this year. You know, there, I have a German, most of the vehicles, I think they the lucid and the GTI are the only ones that I haven't driven, at least a little bit. And they're, you know, everything else, you know, really strong. I, I definitely agreed with the choice of the maverick over the the lucid mean, or rather, the ribbon. The ribbon is really good. But I think that the maverick in terms of its accessibility, its accessibility and its impact on the market, I think is really important, but being a very affordable, very fuel efficient, very, you know, high utility vehicle, you know, starting at 20 grand for the 40 mile per gallon hybrid. That was that. Nicole Wakelin 38:55 I agree. That was I mean, it was the mat you know, there were other trucks and like, you know, the Santa Cruz is is very similar site, you know, take up the Eevee part of things if you start comparing just to the Santa Cruz was great, the rivian was great. They each had reasons to recommend but like the Maverick, really, for that price point for the fuel economy, for the way they designed that. I love that you can buy that really affordable truck. And you if you want to, you know, customize the bed to do things. You don't have to spend the cost of the truck all over again, to buy official components to do that, to buy official inserts and official accessories. You can you know they have things that they're doing 3d printing, so you can 3d print a clip that goes in the back of the like center console and then 3d print what you want on the back of it. You want a couple cupholders on yours. Sure you want it to be something to hold the tablet Sure, and they're sharing that stuff with the public so that you can you know you can do something like that instead of spending a fortune on all these different parts if Sam Abuelsamid 39:57 you wanted to buy four out of the garage exact In the past, take a couple Nicole Wakelin 40:01 of scraps a two by four sigma on their sticks and plywood, stick them on there, you just spent $10 To do what you could have spent easily 1000s of dollars to do if you hit official licensed OEM products that were all shiny and perfect. And if you want to go for it, they'll just tell you that stuff but if you don't want to, you totally don't have to. I think that's really that's, that's unique. That's different. I think that deserves recognition rock Roberto Baldwin 40:26 truck stuff is like drum gear, like drum gear. Drumming gear is like very expensive. Like all you need to stand for your cymbal. I here's a company, we need a couple $100 for some some metal. It's the same thing with truck stuff, y'all. You want some lights? I don't know, five $500? Like why? Exactly. It's just metal. And it's just a bunch of LEDs, right? Well, there's some wires to sir. Some wires. Nicole Wakelin 40:50 It's like, well, I can make sure it fits. And it doesn't cost that much, you know? Sam Abuelsamid 40:56 All right. Well, from talking about the best of 2022 let's transition to some not so great stuff. Yesterday, I was scrolling through my feeds, and I stumbled across yet another great article by Jason torchin. Ski on Jalopnik. About the past was garbage. And, yeah, I grew up, you know, in the 70s and 80s, you know, so I'm old enough to remember this stuff. I remember when the Chrysler kei car first came out. And you know, at the time, you know, 1978, it was the car that saved Chrysler from bankruptcy, because they were on the verge of going out of business. And they got some got some government guaranteed loans, which they paid back a couple years later. And that gave them enough to launch this thing. And this product, the K car, you know, a compact front wheel drive car, became the basis of everything that Chrysler built for the next decade, except for their big trucks and vans. Everything that wasn't a big truck, and Van was based off the kei car. And so they had so many different variations. And one of one of those very, you know, they did slightly longer wheelbase versions, they did. One of one of the big things in that era was this idea of, if you put a more squared off notched roofline on a sedan, with a more vertical rear rear window, as opposed to a forward sloping window, it made it look more luxurious, more. But of course, today, if they did that, you know, the manufacturers, you know, they've figured out how to how to do the tooling for body stampings. And that, you know, more affordably than than they did in those days. And so they would just have a different set of stampings. I mean, you know, today you look for example, you know, at a Ford Escape, and a Lincoln Corsair. They're the same car underneath. But you know, they have completely different sheet metal, not 1984 Chrysler 1984. And so this, I thought this was really cool. Jason Drew, and figured out how they did some of these formal rooflines on these cars, you know, to convert a Chrysler E Class sedan into a Chrysler New Yorker. And what do you guys think about this? Nicole Wakelin 43:27 Oh, my God, I can't, when I first saw this picture, I'm like, what, somebody did that? It's like, no, it was this way, like Roberto Baldwin 43:34 and loaded. Literally something somebody with a homey, like, you know what, I'm gonna make this fiberglass thing and add it to my car. It's like you're fabricating things and honking in there around. Yeah, I'm just gonna Nicole Wakelin 43:48 have to, you have to put the picture up so people can see or the link to it somewhere in the show so that people can see what we're talking about. But it literally looks like one of those like, Well, I'm not paying, you're talking about Robbie. I'm not paying someone to fix this. I can fix this fix. Yeah, that's how it came. It came that way. Oh, okay. Roberto Baldwin 44:06 It's like someone wanted to build a LeMans car and they're like, You know what, let's mess this up. Sam Abuelsamid 44:10 It's a lemons car from the factory. Roberto Baldwin 44:13 Yes, lemons, car. Cree lemon for you. But I think this sort of it's it's fun because it's not loud enough. It's fun. It's not fun for your for your pocketbook. But there was a handful of good cars in the 80s and 90s. Just because manufacturing was it was tough to make meant to manufacture there was, you know, us automakers are having difficulty competing with Japanese automakers. But in the 80s and 90s. There was a lot of really bad cars. They're out in the road. Just bad. They just weren't very good. And now you see them. I see them. You know, people are bringing them to radwood And you're like, Oh man, I really love that car like no you didn't. You'd never drove that car because those cars were horrible. And I was talking to guys earlier about it. The the Ford Escort everyone I knew who had a Ford Escort had nothing but problems with Cars. Then the late 80s, early 90s Ford escorts were just piles of trash. And my husband Nicole Wakelin 45:06 had one when he went to college, he shared it with his brother, he had to drive back and forth from New Hampshire to Virginia Tech, which is in western Virginia. And every single time I'd be like, Go with God, please don't die because we were dating when I was in college. We were in college. Something went wrong every time it's like so what went wrong this time? I remember a story the brakes just said we're done. We choose no longer to break. And because it was the middle of the night and he was a stupid college kid, he continued to drive home and he would just slow down with the emergency brake at the at the little toll booths. Like throw money in these up and keep going. That's how he arrived home. And the thing is, that wasn't shocking. I remember thinking yeah, so that was that was this Thanksgivings adventure getting back it was always something wrong with that thing. Always Roberto Baldwin 45:55 a friend of mine and I would we he had a like an 8687 Ford Escort. And I had my my 2000 roads, my Datsun 2000 roadster 1969. And we would go down to a junkyard down in in the desert to go like, you know scavenging for parts and things. Because that's the thing you did in instead of getting on the internet when in the in the late 80s. Early 90s Is your friend. Find it yourself? Yeah, to go wander around. You have some tools in your back pocket looking for parts. We would never take his car. His car was awful. It was like you know, 18 years newer than my car, we would always take the Roadster because we're just like, hey, but yeah, you see a lot of like, Yeah, whenever I see like, Oh, look at them. Like no, that wasn't a good car in the 80s or 90s. I don't think why it's not gonna be a good car now because now it's got you know? Yeah, Nicole Wakelin 46:49 there's so many times I see someone looking at cars, especially from that era, and they waxing poetic about this. This amazing fine. I'm like you guys, I'm sorry. No, like, just stop. I'm supposed to jump on me. I'm an auto journalists bandwagon and say yes. Look at this amazing thing. And I'm like, I feel like you know, Princess Leia and the Millennium Falcon. What a hunkajunk. Like, why would you buy this? No, don't do it. Roberto Baldwin 47:13 I think if you buy one of those old cars, and you put an EV powertrain in it, as long as you're fine with like, just horrible suspension. It should be okay. Nicole Wakelin 47:21 Okay, I'm okay with that crazy Sam Abuelsamid 47:22 suspension. But they also, you know, in those years, those days, they still had a very healthy tendency to rust or unhealthy ties. Oh, yeah. A friend of mine. I was I was looking to buy a used car. And this was somewhere around 8384 85 I was looking to buy a used car and a friend of mine. His dad was selling, I guess 76 Ford Granada. And so I went to take it for a test drive. And, you know, for those of you that are young, you know, and think that you know, changing the high beam should either be automatic or just you know, something, you tapped the stock on the steering column with back in those days to go from low beam high beam on the car. So it was actually a switch on the floor that you tapped with your foot. And so I went to tap the high beam switch on this thing. And it went right through the floor Unknown Speaker 48:20 plop foot Okay, Sam Abuelsamid 48:22 I think I'll pick a pass on this car. Roberto Baldwin 48:24 I missed I do miss the foot the foot power and high beam switch a little a little silver metal thing you just stepped on Yeah, Nicole Wakelin 48:32 was it because they rusted this it? Was that why they stopped doing that? I don't know the official why? Because it was such an easy thing to just move your foot over. Roberto Baldwin 48:39 I feel like the failure rate was probably higher than your hair the rusted up the switch. Because you get like these Yeah, but you got your your feet are muddy and wet and gross. I'm sure the failure rate, they realized the failure rate of that was much higher than just putting a little thing on the stock, which is not easier when Nicole Wakelin 48:57 I'm in cars where like, I'm from, I suppose your own car. You get familiar with all these different cars like whoops, sorry, high beams was just trying to wash my windshield. Yeah, I Roberto Baldwin 49:05 do that all the time in Mercedes. I'm like, oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry, because the right stock is actually the gearshift backwards. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Apologies. Sam Abuelsamid 49:15 are right. Next up. Ballinger who were talking about rivian earlier. Ballinger is a company that popped up, what, four or five years ago with, you know, this very boxy looking, you know, electric pickup truck and SUV that a lot of people got really excited about and thought, yeah, this was cool. Because one of the cool things was, you could open up the hood. And then there were panels at the center console, that basically gave you a complete pass through all the way down the center, the center console of the truck, so you could put an item that went from the front bumper all the way to the rear bumper, you know, and that, you know, things like that. A lot of people interested in this thing. Unfortunately, among those people that were interested in this thing, apparently none of them were investors. Since Roberto Baldwin 50:12 a lot of people are interested to know with money, but lots of Nicole Wakelin 50:16 money, but small issues, Sam Abuelsamid 50:18 since they were first shown, you know, they were apparently as near as I can tell those first two that were shown back in 2017 or so, are still the only two that exist. Yeah, I mean, I've been to a lot of car shows over the last several years. There's, there's one pickup one SUV that they just keep trotting out, at least unlike the early 80s, when Jerry weigert and vector only had one example of the vector sports car that he just kept repainting and bringing it to magazines. I got a new prototype. Yeah. This time, they didn't even bother, Nicole Wakelin 50:56 like SIM card for day. Yeah. And Sam Abuelsamid 50:59 so anyway, they've made it official. They are pivoting their canceled plans indefinitely to build the pickup in the SUV. And they're returning any deposits they got from customers. And they're focusing on just doing a skateboard, electric skateboard chassis for commercial trucks. So if you were if you're waiting on a Ballinger b one or b two, sorry, Nicole Wakelin 51:25 time to rethink your mansion. It was Roberto Baldwin 51:28 because of Ballinger, when the ribbing came out, I just like walked by the thing, and I made someone else cover it. Yeah. Yeah, because I like whatever this is, just like Ballinger, because I just felt like like, this is never gonna happen. Volunteers never gonna, they look cool. They look like something the A team would build in the garage during a montage. passthrough was cool. But at the same time, we're just like, is this really and you're also, you know, when you're making an Eevee, you want some sort of aerodynamics. And this is not the opposite of that. This was Sam Abuelsamid 52:03 literally, you know, a big block of steel. Roberto Baldwin 52:06 Yeah. And it made the Honda Element look like a lotus. It was just I mean, it's, I mean, I commend them for trying a building one car is super hard. Building 100 is impossible, building them at scale. I don't even know how that happens. So, I in You know, they put up the fight for a few years, and I don't know how many people are gonna buy? Yeah, I think this goes back to, if you're either a young company or a small company, or you're a big company, you can either buy your commercial vehicles from an established player, which has service centers all around the United States, or you can buy them from a startup and just hope for the best and cross your fingers. Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 52:51 Well, I think, you know, after especially after Tesla showed the cybertruck I think a lot of the interest in the Ballinger kind of probably evaporated. Because a lot of the same things about the Ballinger that appealed to people, I think were there cybertruck. And people thought, well, there's a lot better chance of Tesla building the cybertruck. But then Bolton during may or may not ever happen. Nicole Wakelin 53:13 I don't know if that's still a good bet or not. But well, Sam Abuelsamid 53:17 that was what people were thinking. I think when they look for shave off, Roberto Baldwin 53:20 I think the cybertruck skills are going to be out here even if he just for spite, even if I think they're making money. Now they have they're profitable, but you know, you have to like look at what's going on. It's like Ford Ford. Did you know The problem is that that Tesla is the last place where transparency happens before it is like hey, we're not going to build these other things because we're building so many, you know of this other thing lightnings Mavericks, whatever. Our Mustang, Maki's Tesla's probably in the same boat where they're like, You know what, we're making money off all these model threes. We're still have to finish that factory in Texas. Let's really just keep making the thing that makes us money and sort of focus a little bit later on our space age 70s retro, futuristic truck. Sam Abuelsamid 54:06 Yeah. All right. One last one. Going back to Honda, the Civic Type R, which is the last variant of the new Civic that we still hasn't been officially revealed. As shown the other day at the Tokyo Auto Salon. At least still with with camo a camo wrap on it. So I'm seeing all the details of it. But there's a new new type bar coming later this year. And still has a big wing on the back and wider fenders what what do you guys think of it? Nicole Wakelin 54:44 It looks very fancy pants and it's little actually I'm loving the camo the camo is actually a little cars did you look at it yeah series. Its camo pattern Roberto Baldwin 54:54 are it's it's the letter R and then little white, the red red ours and then little white outlines of cars. Sam Abuelsamid 55:01 It's adorable. Yes, it's actually the white outlines are type ours. Yeah. So you see the type bar profile. Next superimposed on the red ours on a black. Nicole Wakelin 55:12 It looks great. I think it looks great. I love the crazy. This the crazy thing on the back? Roberto Baldwin 55:18 I think they went they Lina I think there was. I mean, I like the last generation hierarchies are just ridiculous. It was all sharpened stabby. But I think that the same time people were I remember when I got it in, I've tried my wife round. She's like, I really like this car. Except for That's stupid. And then she said like a bad word wing on the back. It was just like too much. Like it's too much. There's too much going on. And I think there's a lot of people who are just like, it's there's too much going on. You get the the 18 to 24 year old who was like, Yeah, but then once you lose, once you leave that demographic everyone else is like Sam Abuelsamid 55:53 I actually once did see a type bar here in Michigan that had the wing removed. Really? Yeah. So it just had a standard civic hatch. hatchback on it had no wing. And they did they actually did offer it. They have offered it in Europe. They offered a version of it in Europe without the wing. But for some reason they never offered it here as a Nicole Wakelin 56:17 wonder which sold more the wing diversion or the not winged version, Sam Abuelsamid 56:22 I would guess probably the wing diversion, Roberto Baldwin 56:24 just so you can show off. It's a flex my fancy car. Sam Abuelsamid 56:27 But I you know, I would have loved to have you know, had the option to get a D winged type bar. Yeah. Yeah. On my side, you know, at least you know, having that wing up there, as high as it was up in the air meant that when you were inside the car, when you look back through the rearview mirror, the contour of the wing actually meant matched the top, the contour of the top of the rear glass. So when you look in the rearview mirror, you don't actually see the wing. It just looks straight back underneath the wing. So it doesn't obstruct your your view at all, which is you know, that part was good. It was just, you just got to kind of keep your eyes closed until you get up and get in the car once you're in the car. Nicole Wakelin 57:12 Just don't look until you sit down. Roberto Baldwin 57:13 Yeah, I think they'll probably do better with this one. I think it's a little less Nicole Wakelin 57:18 wacky rounder, it's not what did you say? Well, it's not a stabby Roberto Baldwin 57:21 it's not a stabby and it's not gonna take you in a back alley and stealing your money. Chevy. Sam Abuelsamid 57:30 Okay, we have a couple of listener questions today. The first one is from Big Daddy Henshaw, who asks, Hey, guys, hope you're doing well, this week. I live up here in Canada, where it is minus 31 degrees this week. With the Wind it feels like minus 40. And so he's talking in Celsius, rather than freedom units. No idea what that is in Imperial measurement. No batteries. have batteries in in EVs improved enough that range loss is a non issue now. In the cold and yeah, I think so. Now. Yeah, I mean, the reality is, it doesn't, it actually doesn't matter if you're driving a battery electric vehicle or an internal combustion vehicle, you are going to lose efficiency in cold weather you've got there's more rolling resistance on snow and ice, you know, the tires get harder. It your overall less efficient. The the fuel, you know, for gas vehicles, the fuel mixtures that they use, the fuel blends that they use are actually different at different times of the year. Because if you use summer fuel in the wintertime, it's designed to evaporate less and when it's really cold, you're going to have a harder time starting the car. So the winter fuel blends are less efficient than summer fuel blends. So and plus you get things like having to run your heat. At least within with an internal combustion engine, you've got waste heat coming off the engine that you can use with battery electric vehicles, you've got to use some some juice from the battery to heat the car is better than it used to be. And you know a lot of new EVs are now coming with heat pumps which are much more efficient than the resistance heaters that have typically been used in the past. So you are going to lose range but it's not as bad as it used to be. We also we had a response to this one on Twitter from Brian Baron house and another listener who does on a Tesla Model three Does knowing how your car does and snow is part of responsible car ownership in my opinion. He's right there. So I took Jules which is the name for his his model three out today to find out the traction control is phenomenal regen braking is a huge plus. She may be rear wheel drive with stock Michelin MX M four tires, which felt planted and in control You know, those are things that all that stuff is actually irrespective of what kind of powertrain you have. You know, if you get good tires, you're going to have decent traction. But you know rent rent you are going to take a hit on range and cold weather that's just the reality just as your fuel economy and it will the gas car goes way down in cold weather what's what's your experience been like? Nicole? Nicole Wakelin 1:00:24 I can even on a Russes he has that plug in hybrid Jeep in the driveway right now and he can see how it it's it doesn't get the same range that it would get it's not like suddenly he you know his dropped to nothing but yeah, it does affect how it performs in in cold weather. I think the interesting thing is, you know, is it a non doesn't lose lose. So little range that it's a non issue, kind of I mean, you don't really think about in your ice, you know, your vehicle is just powered by gas like Oh, normally I go 450 miles and today, I'm only gonna go 448 miles because it's cold weather. I don't think for the most part in most you know that the difference? Everybody knows you're going to get a little less range in an Eevee or something with a battery you know, the batteries during cold weather. I think everybody sort of plans for that. I don't think it's a significant enough drop for most people day to day that it's something to panic over or something that makes people think oh, I can't do this because I lose too much range in the cold yellows lil but I don't think it's enough to to warrant panic or really changing your purchase decision, I guess. Roberto Baldwin 1:01:27 Yeah, there was a there's a actually pretty good article from Tim Stevens over at roadshow, from the seventh where he drove the tie icon. And he beat the EPA range, even in the winter, and there's pictures of him driving under snow and stuff. And so it's getting better. It's getting much better. And also it's Porsche so you know, you're paying a lot of money for Porsche. So you know, you're expecting some and but the icon keeps the basic physics are the same. Yeah, the basic physics are the same. So you know, they're the cars are getting the EVs are getting better everything, you know, it's just gonna get better. And you can like Nicole said, I mean, your daily day, your day to day like, oh, no, I was gonna drive. It's negative 60. I'm gonna go drive my, my Nissan Leaf 250 miles a day, but it's only going to get 240 miles of range? Oh, no. Sam Abuelsamid 1:02:10 I think I think the the big, the big thing is, you know, most modern EVs now have long enough nominal range, that for the vast majority of people, even driving in extremely cold weather, the range, you're gonna lose it, you still, you're still gonna have plenty of extra. I mean, most people don't drive two 300 miles a day. So if you've got 250 miles of range, in normal weather, you know, even if that drops to 160 170 in 30, below zero, you know, you're still from for almost everybody, that's gonna be more than enough. Most people are not driving that much. Nicole Wakelin 1:02:48 And you know, with I'm trying to think of the the number of pure EVs that I've driven long enough on a long enough trip to or played with this enough, you know, you can say I'm going from here to Albuquerque, and it will plot out where you need to stop and when based on how you're driving in the distance, how you know, that the how much of a range you're getting on your battery. So if the weather is exceptionally cold, and you are driving ridiculous amounts of miles because you're on a road trip, I would assume those would all adjustment. Nope, we're gonna stop. Yeah. Here. Yeah, it's a little closer than instead of that city that we would stop at if it was the middle of August. So you still have the tools readily at your disposal to show you, you know, okay, I got to stop here instead of there if I'm on a huge road trip and it's cold and my rage isn't quite what it would normally be. Sam Abuelsamid 1:03:30 Yeah. Alright, last one is from Wes. And asked is the era of the muscle car over or have electric vehicles opened up a new era to push the game that pushed the genre further. Kind of sad watching a Tesla racing Ice Vehicle at the track, a lot of the charm is missing. Roberto Baldwin 1:03:50 I think the the era of the muscle car will evolve into something I think it's there are people who are who have been building these sort of these quarter mile monsters that are like these, these these retro mods, and they're just like, tweaking them and doing all these like batteries. And we'll take these batteries out, let's put this controller and let's put this you know, it's it's I mean, when when it comes down to it, if you're a car nerd, you're still a nerd. You're still like thinking about mixtures. You're still thinking about, like bore and displacement. And they're just there's a lot of, I mean, I think the idea that like, well, I work on cars, so I'm not a nerd. Now you're kind of a nerd. Like though some of the nerdiest things I've ever had to do was just trying to match up duel carbs. Oh my god. It's like trying to figure out the victory garden hose or whatever. Yeah, it's it. Sam Abuelsamid 1:04:41 You know, it's for the sound as you adjust the Roberto Baldwin 1:04:45 Jets. Yeah. And also, I think there's, there's you can still have your muscle car and just, you know, it's not you can't. At some point, you got to realize, okay, my car's not going to be the fastest one on the track. You could still have a nice day. Loud annoying or beautiful, or whatever you want to do with it muscle car and not worry about it being like destroyed by the Tesla plaid or the PT icon or you know, the you know, whatever is coming out I mean, at this point me trucks are faster muscle cars like big giant Ford Raptor I've ever ate I remember 13 Second quarter miles were a big deal back in the day, if you could do anywhere Oh, now that every car does that every car probably. Sam Abuelsamid 1:05:33 Well, I mean, when let's elantas Did their Evie day, last June or July whenever it was, you know, when Tim klinisk has got up and talked about dodge dodge for the last you know, half decade, dodge has been a muscle car brand. It's it's FCA and now still entices American Muscle brand. And now it's gonna you know, they dropped the tagline, American a muscle, they're going electric, but it's still going to be muscle cars, the only thing that's the only thing is gone is the noise. You know, you lose the noise, which, you know, I, I like the noise of a big engine. But you know, it's not the end of the world. Nicole Wakelin 1:06:15 I think that's the you know, it just changes, it might change the, what's underneath the hood, or not underneath the hood, whatever. But it might change how the car works. But that doesn't mean that you still can't like even a muscle car brand like dodge. So they're not going to build you the Dodge equivalent of a Nissan LEAF, don't look to them for that, you know, they're gonna build you Every car is their equivalent of the Tesla with you know, the plaid, crazy, whatever they're gonna, they're gonna lean towards that they could still do it just gonna be a Sam Abuelsamid 1:06:44 challenger with a big battery, it's just Roberto Baldwin 1:06:46 gonna be it's gonna be the same bridge going really fast in a straight line. Right? Nicole Wakelin 1:06:51 So I mean, but I think it just changes it's gonna change I think that the era of you know, a nice loud engine underneath the thing give a time so we're just gonna stick that noise on an Eevee and it's going to be how much can you make the noise, your Eevee mimic the sound of your, you know, a traditional gas powered engine, there's a million ways you can still do this and still have the fun of playing around with a performance car and getting a performance car even if it's not powered by gas. I don't think that's going to change the the details of it but the existence of that kind of stuff not gonna change. Roberto Baldwin 1:07:25 I mean, one of my favorite cars I've seen in TV shows in a long time, and this is going back to bad cars but for some reason is the Grand National I've always had a stuff I've always loved the Grand National and in the watchmen the watchmen jet and Evie grand nationals like oh my god, I want this because it Yeah, the grant it's I thought it was probably the coolest looking car when I was a little kid my one of my uncle's had one I think his friend had one and I was just like, This is amazing. I love this car. I've never driven one because I was a little kid and then there aren't a lot round there's probably a reason for that Sam Abuelsamid 1:08:03 there's a surprising number of them or at least the the the G annexes. You know that have, you know have been garage Queens for the last 30 years years, you know that have, you know 20 Some miles on them. Actually, another thing I just saw yesterday is somebody had a 2007 challenger first edition when they first brought out the new challenger that had 23 miles on it. They were asking 50 grand for it. Nicole Wakelin 1:08:30 23 Miles Wow, that's nothing Roberto Baldwin 1:08:33 says gold, buy a car and then just shove it somewhere. I don't know. I think that like cars should be driven, but that's just me. Sam Abuelsamid 1:08:40 Absolutely. All right. And on that note, let's call it a show and talk to you all next week. Roberto Baldwin 1:08:49 Bye guys. I like how I raised my hand the wave bye