Sam Abuelsamid  0:01  
Coming up on episode 225 of wheel bearings. It's just Robbie and me this week and we've got the 2022 Mitsubishi Outlander, the Toyota Camry xs e hybrid, the Cadillac CT five V Blackwing. The Cadillac Escalade V, the Bronco Raptor, Ford an ADT hookup for security, no more BMW V twelves. Lamborghinis going partially electric at least. All that and more coming up next

this is episode 231 of wheel bearings. I'm Sam Abuelsamid from guidehouse insights.

Roberto Baldwin  0:39  
I am Roberto Baldwin from TechCrunch. And

Sam Abuelsamid  0:43  
Nicole I think right now if I'm not mistaken is romping around Disneyland or Disney World with Rebecca. So she's not with us this week. So it's just us again. So you want to go first?

Roberto Baldwin  1:01  
Yeah, sure. So this week I Okay, so I've only I want to I want to preface this that I've only had the vehicle for about a day and a half two days is I have the 2022 Cadillac CT five v blackwing.com. The real real V for real real is not for play play. CT five. i It is it is something else it is always I got the one with the the manual transmission six speed manual. It has 6.2 liter supercharged V eight, it has 668 horsepower, 659 pound feet of torque, according to Cadillac, it'll do zero to 60 in 3.4 seconds. And it'll do about 200 miles an hour top speed on a racetrack as a racetrack mode. You know, as you're going through your modes.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:56  
I have just no one no one should ever do something like that on a public road

Roberto Baldwin  2:00  
ever. Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know who would take this. I guess you could even you could take it to a track you're like, Hey, I got this Cadillac. I'm going to take it this track this one time. So I can try to get to 200 miles an hour. Other than that, it's it's a Cadillac, you know, you get inside you said, Dad, it feels like a Cadillac. You know, the seats are he has sport seats. But even those are really actually quite comfortable. For sports seats. I know some people don't like them. I am actually a big fan of racing and sports beat seats. For some reason. They fit my body very well. I found them more comfortable than than most of the seats I I encountered SUVs, which is an odd thing, but sure, why not. Driving it is, it's fun. It's fun. I will say though, this is the first car in a very, very, very, very long time that I stalled, like, right when I got in the car, like usually you'll sort of stall you know, you'll you'll be driving a car, I managed his mission. And after a day or two or maybe within the first day at something, you'll maybe you'll stall it. This one I got in and I went to let the clutch out. And it's it is like a 90s sports clutch. It is just like super a ton of tension. But then the the bite, we're within the throw, the bite is super high. So it's like within like, like it's either off, down about an inch on and engaged. And then the rest of the time is just you

Sam Abuelsamid  3:30  
can't really modulate it at all. It's just honor.

Roberto Baldwin  3:33  
You can you can it's just takes a little you know, I had to drive it. The first thing I did was drive it into San Francisco I had, I had to my wife and I had to go into the city right after they dropped it off. So you know, you can do it. And it also has a hill assist, which typically I'm not really a fan of. But when when it turns out this was the first time I was going to be driving this car and I'd already stalled it. It'd been okay just because there's Yeah. So. So about Yeah, like halfway through the day it was it was fine. I could like sit there you know, sort of move the car back and forth on a hill, you know, get used to the to the clutch but it is it is it's it's pretty high. So if you if you buy one of these, and you immediately stall it, don't feel bad.

Sam Abuelsamid  4:20  
Because even a professional like Mr. Baldwin here did it

Roberto Baldwin  4:23  
who drives a lot of manual transmissions and I was like, Oh my gosh, like what's going on here? I'm like, This is so very odd clutch. But yeah, once you get going it's fine. It Yeah, no, I like and I think, you know, I think the brakes could probably do with a little bit of extra something, something I think they probably need about 10 15% More brake power, especially when you have all that other power in the vehicle. You know, it's again, zero to 63.4 seconds and that 200 miles an hour on the racetrack. I'm the person who buys this though I think they are the show off to their friends. They'll be happy to have a mini transmission. You know, it's you get a nice sports sedan with a manual which that's that's not really much of a thing anymore. You can get a coupe you can get it is pretty rare. Yeah, it's, there's, there's no more BMWs there's no more Audi's there's no more. Yeah, it's it's, it's a, it's a it's a bit of a unicorn. It's fun to drive. It's rear wheel drive, so that's fine. I will tell you that it's going to go it takes a while to warm up these tires as these summer tires. The What do I got on here? I got the Michelin Pilot Sport for us summer tires on there. I took it out for a drive last night just because I was busy yesterday. And I drove for like 30 minutes. And the tire still weren't warmed up. And I was just like, Okay, well, I got I got stuff to do. I'm going to be driving it throughout the week, pretty heavily. So that'll be fine. But I wanted to get like a little you know, a little extra something something before the podcast. And yeah, you know, I can still do some, you know, I still did some cornering I still did some, some some acceleration runs. But overall No, it's it is a it is a an interesting vehicle. And again, in a way that is a unicorn, it's you know, you get a main transmission, you get the sports sedan, it's comfortable, that has all those sort of accoutrements of a, of a Cadillac, it gets horrible gas mileage, 15 miles per gallon. When I was driving, I think I got to 16 this is combined, it starts at $83,995 the vehicle I'm driving $113,445, that's what that's what the, the $995 destination charge. So it's not cheap. Even if you just want the regular one. You know, that's that's a that's a that's a lot of money. And that's a lot of money for a manual transmission. When you can just get a gr 86 Or a Mustang or a B or z or a golf. But of course, none of those. None of those are in this class. That's where That's where this the weirdness is with this vehicle is that there's nothing else really in that class. Is there anything else in the class I'm trying I'm racking my head trying to think of anything else? Don't that is a sedan.

Sam Abuelsamid  7:31  
I don't think right now in in the US market. I don't think there's anything else because I think like the M five is now automatic. Only the outies no more manuals and the RS Audi's Mercedes hasn't had a manual, and G for ages. It's probably been 10 years. So yeah, I don't I don't think there's anything else quite like that in the US market. I think you can still get like manual transmission out ers is in Europe like an RS six.

Roberto Baldwin  8:07  
Yeah, but that's about it. So yeah, America, this is it. If you want you know, 6.2 liter supercharged VA with a manual transmission and you want to be fancy? Yeah, this is it. This is how you get the CT FFIV which again, is the black one which is it's a great it's you know, it's a really fun car. So far, it's a it's a good car, I don't want to say it's a great car, it's a bad car, I'm just gonna like sit in the middle and say good car because I haven't had a lot of time behind the wheel with it. But if you're if you're one of those enthusiast that just really what you want to manage his mission, but you got a lot of money and you want something luxury. You know, I would check it out. It's it's it's a hoot behind the wheel. And again, don't don't feel bad if you saw.

Sam Abuelsamid  8:56  
Yeah, well, you know, it's funny. The, not the not the previous like the predecessor of the CT five was the CTS and the previous generation, which was the third generation of CTS. I think they Yeah, they offered a manual on the CTS V on that one, right.

Roberto Baldwin  9:14  
I think so. Yeah, I

Sam Abuelsamid  9:15  
think so. Yeah. And then the the one before a second gen. They also had the CTS V wagon, the Sportwagon with a manual and the prices of those things are really starting to go through the roof. So you know, even though you know this one was over 100 grand, you probably going to pay you know, at least you know 70 or 80 or more you know if you were to find a used CTS V wagon as well. Yeah, I mean you

Roberto Baldwin  9:45  
know when you when you're looking at these performance vehicles when you're buying used Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  9:51  
you gotta be careful but yes, love kind of life they had,

Roberto Baldwin  9:57  
um, every once in a while I'll hear a story of somebody like a fan. Emily are a you know, essentially someone dad age, you know 40s And later who bought, you know, STI and his wife buys the STI drives the STI or so they just never, you know, it was never pushed to the limit. But every other I mean our W when I bought my W RX used, like it did, it hadn't been used,

Sam Abuelsamid  10:23  
used as it was intended

Roberto Baldwin  10:25  
use as intended, which also means that, you know, it's the lifecycle of these vehicles, especially when you're driven hard, because that's what people buy these for. is a little less than then than that of, you know, your, your average camera or, or whatnot. So you know, if you're looking at a any performance car, you should kind of expect that. And so if you're looking at a US a CTS V, and it's 70, and this one's 80.

Sam Abuelsamid  10:54  
You might want to just go for the pay the extra 10 grand and get the warranty on it. Yeah, exactly. Cool. Yeah. I think the first time back in 2008, I think it was I did the the launch drive for the second generation CTS v. And they did that at Monticello Motor Park motor Motor Club in New York. And it was right when it was first opening. It wasn't it wasn't even like the facilities weren't even all completely finished. They had the track paved, and they were still doing construction on the various facilities. And you know, so we got to spend a couple of hours driving those things on the track as well as driving them around upstate New York. And it was it was amazing driving that manual transmission with that supercharged small block. It was a fantastic combination.

Roberto Baldwin  11:47  
I got to drive. One year at CES, Cadillac reached out and they said hey, do you want a Cadillac for to drive around CES and I was like, Okay. And so they gave me a CTS V. In Las Vegas, which I see yes, when it was lots of people are there in CES, but it was also I think it was probably 2017 I found that the Las Vegas streets are notoriously slick. They're very slippery. Really. They're there. Yeah. So they're there the way that and then it was sort of raining and it was cold.

Sam Abuelsamid  12:31  
And was that a year that we had the the giant rainstorm on like the first day?

Roberto Baldwin  12:36  
Yeah, I think so. And so flooding. That was it was just me sideways everywhere. Yeah, like just everywhere. It was outstanding. It was a mess. But like, you know, the left cord turn signal you're like sitting there and you go in and if you just even like sort of modulating the the accelerator a little bit more the car, the back end would would break free state the entire time was on summer tires. It's on a very it's cold, very slick roads plus rain. So I remember the EIC got in the car, I'm like, Hey, you wanna you wanna she's like, No, no, no?

Sam Abuelsamid  13:14  
Nice. Alright, well, I had something a little more actually had to to considerably more pedestrian vehicles this week because I ended up screwing up and got double booked with two vehicles. The the first one I'll talk about is the 2022 Mitsubishi Outlander, which is a huge improvement over the old Outlander. Last time I drove an Outlander is probably about two three years ago. And this is the Outlander is the first new Mitsubishi that was developed in the time after Nissan took over control of Mitsubishi took and took a controlling stake in Mitsubishi. So this shares its platform with the new the new generation, rogue, and assorted other Nissan products. So it's got the same 106 and a half inch wheelbase. It's got most of the same features that you'll find on a rogue, including the pro Pilot Assist, which when you put it onto a Mitsubishi, instead of the little blue icon on the steering wheel has a little green icon on the steering wheel, and it's called My Pilot Assist instead of pro Pilot Assist. Because it's a Mitsubishi it's exactly the same functionality and it works fine. Fine. Yeah. Me. Yeah. The you know, personally, I'm actually I kind of prefer the the design of the Mitsubishi over the Nissan Nissan's find it looks good. But I kind of like the look of this Mitsubishi it's a little bit different. And it's ever so slightly longer. It's the same wheelbase as the rogue but it's still it's the bodies that is two and a half inches longer. And so apparently with that extra two and a half inches, the product planners at Mitsubishi felt that that's a good enough reason to add a third row.

Roberto Baldwin  15:14  
And all you need is two and a half inches of leg room. That's all you need.

Sam Abuelsamid  15:18  
Yeah, well, that's not what you get. in mind, when I first opened up the hatch and leaned over and looked over the the back seats, I'll include a picture in the in the show notes, but the, the back of the second row seats was right up against the front edge of the third row, third row seats. So there's, there's no leg room at all back there. You can slide the second row seats forward a bit. But even if you do that, you're still you know, it's basically for little kids at best.

Roberto Baldwin  15:54  
All right, I the third row, I mean, I understand people want a third row, that's what people are like, I want a third or I need a third row. And then the automakers will make a vehicle the third row, but it's almost unusable. It's usable for about six months with the end. But even then, you'd have to like put your kid all the way back there, which means you're fighting with a car seat. And I guess it's maybe for dogs because dogs could sit up there in that little thing because they don't need they don't need leg room, they just sit right on the seat. Yeah, good. Third rows for dogs, that's all there. Okay, you can just

Sam Abuelsamid  16:25  
fold down the the third row seats, which is what I did, you know, after we're not while I was taking photos of it, I just folded them down and I've just left them there, I'm bothered putting them back up. Because they are basically useless. I mean, if if you actually think you are going to need to use seating for more than five people just go ahead and you know, get a pathfinder instead. Don't even bother getting one of these, you know, one of these compact to midsize crossovers. Just go for a proper third row, you know, so that it's going to be useful for a longer period of time. And you know, actual human beings can sit back there have some place to put their feet. Because in this thing, it's useless. That aside, every everything else about this is pretty nice it for the 2022 model, it still has the same Nissan 2.5 liter four cylinder and CVT combination, it was in the 21 Rogue for 22, the Rogue is getting a new 1.5 liter three cylinder turbo. And that has a little bit more power and more torque. And we talked about that one a couple of months ago when I had a chance to do a brief drive with it. And I'm guessing that probably for the 23 model year, the Outlander will probably get that engine as well. The other thing that's coming later this year for the Outlander is a new plug in hybrid variant. The the old Outlander was available with a plug in hybrid that a lot of people liked, because you could actually get a pretty good deal on those things. You know, they were didn't have, I think it only had about 15 or 20 miles of electric driving range. But because Mitsubishis were not especially popular, you could get some screaming deals on those things. I know a couple of people have bought them just because they got them so cheap. And so the Outlander will be getting a plug in hybrid variant later that later this fall. It's I think it's already on sale in Japan, but we'll get it here this later later in the year.

Roberto Baldwin  18:30  
Is this the one based on the previous design or the one on the new design? Because last year, they had no announced the one on the previous the plug in hybrid? That was that was the previous to

Sam Abuelsamid  18:41  
this this is on the the new this is a new design. Okay, yeah. Cuz they

Roberto Baldwin  18:45  
essentially like, Hey, here's a plug in hybrid that we've had in Europe for two years. But now you can have it here in the United States.

Sam Abuelsamid  18:50  
Yeah, yeah, they've had him here for a couple of years. So this is this is on the new design. So the brand, the brand new version, some of the other nice features that the Outlander inherits from, from the Rogue is the second row, the the back doors, the second row doors, open up to almost a 90 degree angle. So if you are, you know, Chuck mentioned getting kids in and out of that, that second row, maneuvering them into car seats and things like that. Being able to open up that door nice and wide is a really nice feature. So you get lots of course you do have to be careful in parking lots. Because, yeah, you might end up doing somebody else's door. But you know, when you're when you're maneuvering those kids in and out that is a very handy feature. This one has got a sorted drive modes. There's a knob on the center console to pick through eco normal. There's a tarmac mode, which I think is supposed to be a sort of sport mode. You know, for dry pavement, you know, didn't really seem to make any difference. There's also a gravel only the snow mode, which, yeah, those change the slip parameters for the traction control and stability control system. So you'll get a little better a little better grip and those deformable surfaces. And, you know, I like the interior of the, the Outlander, you know, it's, it's nice, nice materials in this one, well laid out, like the new Rogue, you know, it's got a much better screen than they had before, it does have support for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, you got the same electronic shift lever that's in the in the console that you have, you'll, if you've driven if you, if you've been in a 2021 road, and you get into this one, you will find a lot of familiar items. But then, but the layout of the dashboard, you know, the look of the dashboard is completely different. So it's a nice combination of the best of the the rogue, you know, with a little bit different look to it, which is good, you know, I think it's a good look, you know, as, as these types of vehicles go, you know, I found it decent to drive. You know, if you're not crazy about CVTs, you know, you might not be crazy about that, but unfortunately, those are, those are getting harder to get away from on a lot of vehicles. You know, a lot, a lot of these these size of crossovers have moved to CVTs. But it's not, it's not a terrible CVT. But, you know, that's that's about the only that's about the only powertrain complaint I had. Fuel economy was okay, it's been really cold here this week, I've averaged about 22 miles per gallon EPA rating is 26 combined, which when I've driven the rug in warmer temperatures, it's able to manage that without any problem 30 highway 24 city so it's this one, you know, you'll you'll get decent fuel economy and then later in the year when the plug in hybrid comes it should be substantially better than that. So see, all in this one was the the top trim level the SEL, it also came with white diamond paint, which is actually just a very slightly off white. It's like a very, very pale gray. They call it white diamond. And that's like, six $600 option. All together with the Levin $195 destination fee came to $38,950 which is not inexpensive, you can get you know, if you don't want all the options on there, you can get one you know, under 30 grand some you can find one of course. Yeah. And a dealer hasn't put a $5,000 market markup on it

Roberto Baldwin  22:51  
to be shipped by the way. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  22:54  
But, you know, this is the first time you know, probably I don't know since I drove an EVO Lancer Evo, that this was a Mitsubishi that I actually really liked that I thought was a decent car. It was It wasn't just recommendable because it was cheap. You know, it's actually recommendable because it's a decent vehicle. So that's the 2022 Mitsubishi Outlander SEL 2.5 s all we'll see all wheel control, I guess is what it's supposed to be. And then the the other one that I had is I've driven before on numerous occasions is the Toyota Camry Hybrid X S e e. So the SSE is the Camry trim that is the the the most sporty variant of the of the Camry and more

Roberto Baldwin  23:48  
sporty and air quotes because it's carrying this

Sam Abuelsamid  23:51  
sporty sporty looking, let's put it that there you go. And this one, it has a nice bold red paint finish on it. And to be fair, you know, this latest generation Camry on the current generation platform like other current Toyota cars on the TNGA platform is actually vastly improved from prior generations it does have a lot better driving dynamics calling it sporty you know, sporty and looks you know I mean, the Camry Hybrid is a nice is a very pleasant powertrain very fuel efficient but you know, not the most exciting powertrain to drive. It's has a combined 208 horsepower but and it gets it's it's it's rated at 46 miles per gallon combined 44 City 47 Highway, so it is really really fuel efficient. And it's not gonna excite you.

Roberto Baldwin  24:52  
It's sporty like Sporty Spice not sporty like David Beckham like it looks there you go. You'll have some fun but it's not like raw

Sam Abuelsamid  24:59  
Yeah, exactly. So you know, this one's got the supersonic red paint. And with the Xsc, you get the two tone, the black roof. And this one also had the black wheels and lots of black trim. So it's got a little more aggressive look to it, and the Xsc trim, you know, the front fascia is a little more aggressive looking than on other camera trim levels, cameras, very pleasant, very roomy, very reliable vehicle. You know, there's, if you're looking for, you know, something that is going to start every day when you go out and press the button and going to get your 100 years for 100 years. And, you know, other than, you know, an occasional oil change, you know, replacing some wipers, you know, as they were out things like that, you know, putting tires on, it'll basically run forever, as long as you put fuel in it, it'll run forever, without without any complaint, it'll just, it'll just get you where you want to go. And, you know, it looks reasonably stylish, you know, so it's not bad. It's got all the the the usual Toyota Safety Sense. Driver assists sweet on it. For the excess see, this one came to $38,369. So just just a little bit shy of the of what the Outlander cost. You can certainly get if you don't want the the extra flair of the of the of the excess e trim, you can get a stiff, a lower trim level Camry Hybrid in the mid 20s. Yeah, so it's actually a quite an affordable car. So that is the the Toyota Camry exit hybrid SSE and supersonic red, which is, by the way, a great shade of red I do like the color.

Roberto Baldwin  26:56  
I hope that it comes with like a little mp3 of JJ fad. And it just like whenever you turn the car on, it starts playing supersonic. For those who are probably too young to know who JJ fat is in the song supersonic. Just look up supersonic JJ fad, and you'll have the best day ever.

Sam Abuelsamid  27:13  
Alright, let's see what we've got next on the rundown. So we're recording this Sunday morning. Yesterday, no day before yesterday. Cadillac teased up and going back to what you were talking about with the the CT five teased out the first shots of the escalate V. Actually, I'm not sure if they're calling it the escalate V or the escalate V series. It's not not entirely clear, and they didn't give any details about it. Except for a few photos. Said more coming to spring. But there there is one short video teaser that they had. It certainly sounds like it's got an LT for the same engine that's in that CT five Blackwing. Which that would be don't be good for a few laughs

Roberto Baldwin  28:02  
Yeah, it'll be good for for a little while. Um, I I don't know. It's a big car. The Cadillac Escalade is a huge it is a boat it is. I mean, when you look at the the less luxurious competitor, the Armada, I mean, the name right there, escalate is a very big thing. And then she already have a lot of mass and now you're just gonna put a giant engine in it. So it's gonna weigh more, it's gonna be more powerful. It's gonna be harder to slow down. I guess it's i People want these but I think the desire outweighs the practicality of some of these very large like it's a third row. This is what you get for third row like,

Sam Abuelsamid  28:43  
yeah, if you if you if you want to carry some actual adults in there, you know, yeah, third row, then you get an escalator.

Roberto Baldwin  28:50  
You can escalate or you get a navigator. There you go. Here everyone you've ever met in one vehicle? Yeah, well, I

Sam Abuelsamid  28:56  
think the the LT four in that's the supercharged 6.2 liter in the in the CT five. I think it's rated about 668 horsepower. Yeah. And in the the Escalades has more room under the hood. So it's conceivable that it could, you know, because they could put a little, maybe a little more free flowing exhaust on that thing, I'm sure you know, in the CT, five, everything's kind of crammed in there to fit it all in. So it could conceivably have a little more power in the Escalades not that you necessarily need it, I mean, just you know, standard Escalades with the 6.2 liter is a fairly quick SUV given its size, and it's also got a quite a prodigious thirst for premium fuel.

Roberto Baldwin  29:44  
So, what would what do you think gas mileage is on this thing's going to be guessing its size?

Sam Abuelsamid  29:51  
12 probably probably 12 combined on EPA, and then you know, maybe 10 City and You know, maybe 1516 highway? Yeah. So it's, you know, but, and this thing is probably going to cost about 130 140 grand. Because, you know, even, you know, the last escalate support I had last spring, I think was 108 or something like that. So, we guess you put an LT four in there, bigger brakes, tires, high performance, or you know, performance seats, things like that. That's probably going to be in the 140 and 150 range.

Roberto Baldwin  30:32  
Do you know what it knew? You know, it'll make it all better managed transmission, man transmission, large SUV. There you go. No one No one who's buying a large SUV wants a manual transmission. Like one one person though. They'll

Sam Abuelsamid  30:43  
they'll sell three of them. Yeah, one mom out. There's

Roberto Baldwin  30:46  
like I'm down for a manager. She's like, Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  30:51  
Yeah. All right. Like you

Roberto Baldwin  30:53  
kids are not gonna ruin my fun.

Sam Abuelsamid  30:57  
Be the first ever escalate with a manual.

Roberto Baldwin  30:59  
Sit down. Shut up. Hang on. We're going to school. Yeah. Well,

Sam Abuelsamid  31:03  
I think if I'm not mistaken, I think the escalate is actually the best selling Cadillac.

Roberto Baldwin  31:09  
Oh, it definitely has to be the best center. Yeah, just hands down are the least the one that makes them the most money? Yeah, the best selling it's, it's the it's the it's the cash machine so they can really do whatever they want to it. If they want. They can make like five of these and be like, it's fine because we make a ton of money off of this vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid  31:28  
Yeah, it's it's kind of crazy. All right. Speaking of higher performance SUVs, as we record this tomorrow morning, by the time you hear this in the news will already be out is the 2022 Ford Bronco Raptor. This is something that has been rumored ever since they first announced the Bronco that that there would be a raptor version of it because for seems to be moving in that direction, creating raptor variants of a bunch of vehicles. They've got the F 150 Raptor obviously as the first they've got a ranger raptor that's available overseas. And my guess is with the new generation Raptor, we'll probably get that here as well. Or the new generation Ranger. And now the Bronco Raptor. And it's going wide. Getting getting getting wide.

Roberto Baldwin  32:18  
It is getting wires, those giant Yeah, you know, you know of all the rafters that they have. This is the one that makes the most sense to me to be to be completely honest. Because you look at it, you're like, oh, okay, yeah, this makes it like, like an F 150. Raptor. I know people love that thing. But going really fast in a pickup truck. I'm always just like, Alright. We're going really fast. Are are having the capabilities of just doing crazy off roadie things in the bronco. I mean, that's what it's sort of built for. And then just make it like, just kick it up a notch for the people who just don't feel like buying all the extra things that make their their regular Bronco, go. I guess Willy Wonka built while to the extreme? Yeah, this is yeah, I think this again, it makes the most sense to me.

Sam Abuelsamid  33:04  
Yeah, this thing is 9.8 inches wider than the standard Bronco, I think I think it's 9.8 inches wider than like the Bronco Sasquatch. Eight and a half inches of extra track come standard with 37 inch wheel tire package. They beefed up the frame to and revise the suspension so you get 13 inches of front wheel travel, 14 inches of rear wheel travel Fox shocks like you get on the the F 150 Raptor. And this one also gets the three liter EcoBoost V six which is anything but eco and an application like this which they haven't said what the power level is going to be accepted is going to be 400 plus and 404 100 horsepower for 15 foot pounds of torque is what you get with that engine in the Explorer st so I'm guessing it'll probably be a bit higher than that probably somewhere in the 425 to 430 range for the Bronco raptor only available with the the four door no to door Bronco Raptor. And no manual transmission only the 10 speed automatic

Roberto Baldwin  34:20  
also boo but you know what are you gonna do? It's yeah, it's a they're already like making a nice vehicle. They're not going to like make it even more you know those again with the with the manager, the personal cell five to like some hardcore people and then everyone else is going to buy it and never take it off road but it'll be fun.

Sam Abuelsamid  34:38  
Apparently, one last time I talked to the folks at Ford. the take rate on the manual transmission Broncos is actually surprisingly higher than they expected. I think it's I think it was like any order somewhere between 15 and 20% which which was really shocking that it was that much. But you know, it's probably probably, you know, just the initial rush to get And then after that, you know, it'll drop down to like, two or 3% of yeah, that's, that's, I don't know.

Roberto Baldwin  35:07  
Take away chunk managers missions if you if you if you're if you're Broncos, not your main vehicle that you commute with every day, you know you're stuck in traffic. I understand that one two main transmission. But if you have let's say a Toyota Camry, or something else that you drive to work and your your Bronco is your fun vehicle, man, get the manual. Get the manual, get the manual. That's my That's it. That's all I got.

Sam Abuelsamid  35:31  
Okay. Yeah, no, I actually, you know, I drove the manual Bronco. Last June when I went to the the first drive and Austin and did a short route in the manual, actually, especially if you do plan on doing any off roading with it. I think I actually prefer the automatic. It's just less less hassle.

Roberto Baldwin  35:56  
Yeah, I know, I understand that the less hassle thing I'm just I like a manager's mission off roading. But I'm also

Sam Abuelsamid  36:03  
a weirdo. And, you know, the, the manual. You know, it's, I mean, I love driving manuals, but the manual and the Bronco is not the slickest shifting gearbox in the world.

Roberto Baldwin  36:14  
You know? What's What, what, what transmission that they have?

Sam Abuelsamid  36:18  
I think it's a Tremec I'm not sure which one. But you know, just the the linkage it just kind of felt a little sloppy.

Roberto Baldwin  36:27  
Wow. You know, they all have a little weirdness when it comes off for

Sam Abuelsamid  36:30  
Yeah, that's true. And yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't expect something to shift like, like a Miata or B or Z, you know, in a in an SUV like that. Yeah. But the, you know, I think with this one, you know, with the Raptor, it's not going to matter anyway, there's that's just not even going to be an option with that three liter V six. It does have paddle shifters on it though. And you know, it's got all the all the other good stuff that you'll find in a Bronco for off roading. Like you get the surround view cameras that you can keep those on up to like I think it's 20 miles an hour when you're in one of the off road modes and they they added a couple of additional modes to that I can't remember off the top of my head what they are for higher speed driving so you know this this thing the Raptor you know like like the F 150 Raptor is more in some ways is more akin to like a gladiator Mojave Yeah, for higher speed desert running, you know, whereas if if all you're ever going to do is rock crawling you probably actually want to go with one of the standard Broncos with like the Sasquatch package

Roberto Baldwin  37:44  
because probably door as well you want that shorter

Sam Abuelsamid  37:48  
Yeah, and I think the crawl ratio with the Raptors only 67 to one Oh, only 67 to one versus 95 to one with the manual transmission. And I add something to one with the 10 speed and the Sasquatch but they say you do get the standard 37 inch wheel and tire choice of a couple of different beadlock capable 17 inch wheels so it's it's a pretty cool looking vehicle did you look at did you look through all the photos Did you see the photo they had in there of a regular Bronco parked you know the head on shot of the regular Bronco next to the Raptor I did it all or it is

Roberto Baldwin  38:32  
oh like it the the profile one their head? Like it's just looks like such. It makes the regular Bronco look kind of like, like a sport. Yeah, you're like oh, whatever it does, it does it makes it look like a sport. I was like wait, are they that was my first reaction was like wait, are they showing off? This versus the sport like why are they like oh wait no, that's just regular Bronco? This thing is is what what what is the get go wild built wild extreme build wild? Yeah, it's so extreme built wild that it makes the regular Bronco look like a Bronco sport.

Sam Abuelsamid  39:09  
Yeah, so orders are going to start taking orders in March. Start deliveries early summer is the plan. And anybody who's on the Bronco reservation list will get first chance to to convert their orders to a raptor. They haven't said what the price is going to be. I'm guessing it's probably going to be somewhere in the mid 60s or more as at least to start maybe 70.

Roberto Baldwin  39:37  
And you so if you I'm going to say if you have the regular Bronco on order make sure that your whatever deal you have with the dealership it's coming through, doesn't have where they can mark it up. I was at a dealership this last week just sort of wandering around. I had to take the the the Kona end to get the wireless charger fixed, they had an order apart. And I was just walking around looking at markups. Like there was a gr 86 down the street for 14,000 markup. And I went to the Ford dealership and they're like, yeah, the Bronco the markup is $20,000 $20,000 just walk away. Just fly away. So yeah, so if you get the Bronco raptor and you're like, Yeah, but it turns out your dealership, like, can do whatever they want because you haven't like, set up a deal where they will you're only paying MSRP who that's gonna be that's gonna be a sad day when they come back to you with a $30,000 mark.

Sam Abuelsamid  40:37  
Yeah, make make sure you get that in your sales contract when you when you do the order. That you know this is the price you're gonna pay no no additional markups. Yeah, somebody in the the wheel bearings cast. Twitter replied to the call for questions yesterday with a posted a photo of a sticker on a Maki with a $15,000 markup. So yeah, it's Don't Don't do it. The dealers do this stuff because customers let them get away with it. And because they they pay it and then they buy it. You know, just don't buy it. Yeah, affordable. Keep building Broncos, as long as customers are. are buying them. You don't have to be the first on your block. Yeah, can you can wait wait until the madness dies down. So yeah, that that's that's gonna be the summer so yeah, it's probably stickers probably going to be somewhere in the 65 to 70,000 range, I would guess because the Wrangler 392 with the Hemi V eight. Those things are 75. So this wouldn't be surprised if it went that high.

Roberto Baldwin  41:46  
I still haven't seen a wrangler 392 in the real world. Yeah. No, I

Sam Abuelsamid  41:49  
haven't either.

Roberto Baldwin  41:51  
I'm sure someone that Autumn is probably not around here. There's a lot of wranglers around my my

Sam Abuelsamid  41:56  
jeweler they're they're selling a lot of the plug in hybrids, the four by E's. Yeah, like there I was just looking at some numbers yesterday. And the the take rate for the for buy ease the market share for the for buddies, when they from July through December when they started selling them was something like a quarter. Almost. It was almost a quarter of all the wranglers sold in the second half of 2021. Reform. So they're they're doing really well with that one.

Roberto Baldwin  42:34  
Well, that should be that should be a scientist for that they need to get the Bronco plug in hybrid.

Sam Abuelsamid  42:39  
Yeah, and I'm sure I suspect that we'll probably see that you know, within the next 12 months is a Bronco plug in hybrid. Before. By that time, we should also have another new product from Ford, they made an announcement this week of a joint venture with ADT, the wonderful security folks that charge you an arm and a leg to monitor the security of your home. The the best, the best way to get ADT to get the type of security you get from ADT, is just to go on eBay and buy the stickers and signs, put them on your windows and put put one on your front door. Or you know, when you buy a house that's got the ADT Security in there, just leave the sign there. And don't don't sign up for the service, the monitoring service,

Roberto Baldwin  43:27  
it's the same thing or get a dog I get a dog with a really loud bark. Yeah, sure he interrupts the podcast, but he also terrifies anyone who comes near our house.

Sam Abuelsamid  43:36  
Exactly. Anyway, for Warden ADT are teaming up to create a joint venture called canopy that they're targeting, especially at their commercial customers, but also, anybody else that will utilize the the cameras that are on all the vehicles they build now, as well as the conductivity, they have to monitor monitoring, you can monitor the bed of your truck, it'll have AI software in there that's looking for anybody. That's not you taking stuff out of the bed of your truck or your SUV or your van and can automatically call ADT, and alert them. And also it can also it'll also alert you through a smartphone app. So you can check you know, you get an alert on your phone. You can see what somebody is doing. And then you can talk back to them and it it'll have a speaker on there. So you can say hey, get away from my truck. Yeah. And, and hopefully scare him off or you know, get your dog to bark into your phone.

Roberto Baldwin  44:43  
There you go get that remember, oh god. That one's afraid of you saying hey, that's all I've heard. That's that's the least terrifying thing. You can yell at someone. Hey,

Sam Abuelsamid  44:53  
what are you doing? What are you doing? Leave those tools along. So it's gonna launch in 20 23, they're going to have an aftermarket product, strangely enough to get an aftermarket product first, you can install on existing vehicles and won't be limited to just Ford vehicles, they'll be available for all kinds of vehicles. And then they'll also have it as a, as a factory option on new Ford vehicles as well. No word on pricing. But if you keep valuable stuff in your, in your truck, you know, your tools or parts or whatever it is, you know, something might be something that you're interested in.

Roberto Baldwin  45:31  
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's it comes down to the the the idea that if someone's going to thieves are going to go into the least protected thing. If your doors locked in your neighbor's doors not locked, they're going to go to your neighbor's house, if your house has an ADT sign and the neighbor's house does not have an ADT sign, etc, etc. Your house has a big, loud, dog and your neighbor's house does not. That's what they're going to go. So it's you know, he's Larry, layers of security, you should still, you know, totally lock down your tools, if you have to keep them in your vehicle with a nice toolbox. And also don't don't leave things in the back of your truck. But

Sam Abuelsamid  46:09  
yeah, but I mean, if you're, you know, if you're at a job site, you know, like, if your exact printer or somebody or electrician, and you're at a site, you've got got stuff, you've got it open, and somebody happens to be wandering by, you know, because you're not, you're not going to have everything locked up while you're working. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of for that sort of trying to try to stop the opportunistic thieves. Exactly. And, you know, I'm sure that we're probably going to see more of these kinds of deals with other automakers as well, doing this sort of thing, because all all the new vehicles are, you know, got all kinds of cameras all over the place, surround view cameras. They're all they've all got conductivity built in. So this is this is the kind of thing where I can actually see automakers starting to generate some revenue from connected services as for this type of application, I think this is something that that at least some customers will be willing to pay for.

Roberto Baldwin  47:03  
Yeah, it's a subscription, more and more things are coming subscription wise to your car. So get ready. At some, someone might be good, and most of them will be ridiculous and not with your money or your time.

Sam Abuelsamid  47:16  
Yep. Shifting to v2, all the engines, get some news. BMW announced shifts, you know, away, shifting away, yes. BMW announced this week that later this spring, they will be building their last ever production vehicles with v 12. Engines. And they're going to have a limited run of 12 M 760. I final v 12. additions. I suspect by now they're probably all sold. Oh, yeah. And, you know, they'll customers will be able to select, you know, form any anything in the BMW individual catalogs and get whatever color combinations they want for interior and exterior and whatever other options, but yeah, that's the end of the line for the BMW V 12. I guess they really don't need it anymore. I mean, the current current one, six and a half liters, twin turbocharged 600 horsepower, 601 horsepower, I think, which is the same as the twin turbo V eight and the M five.

Roberto Baldwin  48:23  
Yeah, it's, it's, you know, the V twelves. Were cool when they came out, and they were giving you get all this extra displacement that you couldn't get from the other vehicle. Other vehicles, but now you're just like, Oh, wow. Really.

Sam Abuelsamid  48:37  
The lovely thing about a v 12. Is you know, it's so smooth with all those all those pistons, that there's no vibration. So you just get it. It's almost like the kind of output you get from electric motor. But you know, just consuming a lot more fuel along the way.

Roberto Baldwin  49:03  
So many tiny explosions. Yeah. double that. How many time explosions you want no double that. We're gonna, but it's gonna be like, it's gonna be like a kitten purring it's gonna be a powerful kitten purring. But also a very hungry kitten. I guess. Maybe not a kitten, Lion. Tiger, tiger. Let's say Tiger there. Yeah, that's a better. That's a better analogy.

Sam Abuelsamid  49:29  
Yeah, the first the first BMW V 12. I drove ever drove was the the 850 I back in 1990. When I was I was working at the GM proving grounds, and they had one in a comparison fleet. And so I got to take one home for a night. And oh, that thing was weak. But, you know, back then, it was even then it was only 295 horsepower. Which by current standards, I mean, you get two liter four cylinders that are putting out more power than that now.

Roberto Baldwin  49:59  
Yeah. Yeah. Again, it was it was cool at a time. And now it's just like I mean, how much gas you had with the tank size for this thing? And then how long will go 150 miles? It's 20 gallons. 25 gallon tank. Yeah. Big, big big tank, big tank. You'll get about 200 miles out of it. Or you're out, but it's gonna be 200 Amazing miles.

Sam Abuelsamid  50:25  
Yeah, absolutely. Another car, another company that uses big V 12. Engines is Lamborghini. And they are also planning to not necessarily shift away from the Wii twelves entirely. But apparently, this year 2022 will be the last year in which they build only internal combustion engines. Starting in 23, they're going to start adopting electrification. I think you had a chance to talk with BMW CO, didn't you? Probably

Roberto Baldwin  50:59  
yeah, yeah. No, he's no, it was a good talk. I think there's a Lamborghini has a I think when you when you're looking at the automakers, and you look at electrification, everyone else you're like, Okay, I can see where this I can see where this works, I can see where this works, I can see where this works. Lamborghini has is an automaker built on emotion, more so than almost any other model maker, I mean, that you look at a Lamborghini, and you're like, oh, either, either you love it, or you're repelled by it, but it's it's an a very emotional brand, you have these giant engines, you have these very, you know, out there designed vehicles, and then you have that exhaust note. And just the bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. So you have all these things that are coming together to create that Lamborghini experience. And, you know, initially they're going to have the plug in hybrids, which you know, that, you know, they need those vehicles to drive. You know, if you're going to buy a Lamborghini, and you still want to drive around a city, you're going to have to have a plug in hybrid, because you're going to need to, especially in Europe, you're going to need some sort of electrification powertrain in order to get around or you're going to get taxed up the wazoo, or do

Sam Abuelsamid  52:06  
you just not yes, at some places just won't even be able to drive you won't be able to drive it.

Roberto Baldwin  52:12  
And so you know, you have that but then, you know, they also have the their electric car that's coming in, in the future at some point and it'll it'll be interesting to see how they navigate what's going on because they can still you know, I don't think people realize the amount of technology that goes into a Lamborghini it's it's actually quite a lot. It's actually pretty impressive. As a brand they they're actually pretty pretty forward thinking when it comes to tech. It's not just big dumb engines in an outlandish vehicle that there's a lot of thought goes into these into these supercars. So yeah, it'll be it'll be interesting to see what happens on that. And I think the hybrid, you're still gonna get the nice loud, you're gonna get all the things that you're used to, from Lamborghini. And then the the the, the transformation electrification, that's going to be interesting, that's going to be something that they're still figuring out.

Sam Abuelsamid  53:05  
Yeah, I think, you know, most likely, I think they earlier this year, or last year, they hinted at a new V 12 hybrid model, a limited edition model, derived from the event the door, which is a current V 12. model. So I think that'll probably one of the first ones that comes out next year. And then the other thing that will probably see the first plug in hybrid will probably be the, the aurus, because that shares its basic architecture with the Porsche icon, and the Audi Q seven. And those are both available with plug in hybrid variants already. So it'd be pretty straightforward to put that same system into the earth. And so and that, that will probably end up being Yeah, I mean, I think the iris is probably already the best selling Lamborghini. Oh, yeah, it

Roberto Baldwin  53:59  
is. It is. It is printing money for them. When I remember on the drive program, I just pulled some of the sidewall, because it's just so so many, under like, we hope so like, No, you're going to sell a lot of these. Because you just like, oh, it's it's all the sort of emotion that you want that you I wanted. I want a Lamborghini since I was a kid. But now that I have the money, I have a family. And I have you know, and I need, I need something a little bit utilitarian, besides, you know, a supercar that, like, it's difficult to get in and out of because, you know, I'm a little bit older, so they have this. And so for the people who still want that Lamborghini brand that Lamborghini sound that Lamborghini feeling, but also got you know, things to do. There's the oldest

Sam Abuelsamid  54:43  
Yeah, so yeah, I mean, the Lamborghini Ferraris going hybrid as well with the the 296. So it's it's the end of the road or nearing the end of the road for the pure internal combustion engine. Even even cars it's still burn fuel are, you know, are getting some degrees of electrification coming to them?

Roberto Baldwin  55:04  
Yeah, I you know, it's it's funny, I was talking to one of the designers, I think he was the head designer of Bugatti at Pebble. And we're talking about electrification a little bit. And he was saying he's like, you know, we make a couple 100 cars a year, our carbon footprint is nothing, it's nothing compared to and most of them don't get driven very much. Yeah, he's like our cars get what maybe maybe 300 miles of driving every year, these are these are very much people who are investing in, it's like art, they're investing in a piece of art, that they'll drive around a little while, they'll show off, it'll be like, you know, like the gallery show and will be them driving it to whatever event they want to go to. And then in a couple years they sell it for, for more money at you know, Lamborghini Ferraris, they get driven a lot more, they're not as expensive, but I think there's, you know, the I think the carbon footprint of Lamberg, all of Lamborghinis cars is nothing compared to, to, you know, some of the larger automakers out there, I mean, their, their carbon footprint, Lamborghini is probably less than Tesla. When you think about like manufacturing, yeah, when you, when you put everything, everything together all you know, when you think of all at the end of the day, Tesla as a manufacturer, and an automaker probably has a much larger footprint than Lamborghini or Ferrari, maybe both of them put together. Yeah, I mean,

Sam Abuelsamid  56:23  
you know, that both of those brands, you know, sell somewhere around 8000 vehicles a year. And, you know, most of them probably don't accumulate at most, a few 1000 miles a year. So, you know, when you even even if they're getting, you know, 10 or 12 miles per gallon, you know, the, the total impact they have is trivial, compared to compared to, you know, vehicles, like an F 150. That sells 9000 units a year. And yeah, that's, you know, 16, or 18 or 20 miles per gallon,

Roberto Baldwin  56:58  
the machine that tightens the bolts, the lug nuts on the F 150 probably has a larger carbon footprint than all of Lamborghini,

Sam Abuelsamid  57:07  
you're probably right. All right. Before we get into the q&a, I have the the last of the interviews I did, while I was at the LA Auto Show back in November, is with Mike Darrow, the CEO of true car, and we talked about the new platform that TrueCar is developed for selling vehicles online. You know, over the last couple of years, you know, a lot of automakers have developed online selling platforms for their dealers. You know, not every dealer necessarily wants to use those, or, you know, they they have a lot in some cases, you know, dealers might have multiple brands that they're selling. And, you know, they want to have a platform that they can use across all of those brands. So, true car, and also for the used cars as well. So true cars developed their own online selling platform that allows consumers to go in and the past TrueCar, you could go in and shop, you know, do comparisons of cars and and shop around, see what was available. Now you can actually go in and and see what's in inventory at any given dealer and do the full transaction, including financing and insurance and everything right through that platform. And then even arrange for delivery, either going to the dealer to pick it up or, or having it delivered to you depending on on where you are. So I'll drop that in here. And then after that, we'll have the q&a. And that's Mike Darrow, CEO of TrueCar. Let's let's dive into TrueCar. And what you guys are doing now,

Mike Darrow  58:46  
yeah, so we've made a bit of a product pivot, and recently, have started putting some things in the marketplace that we've actually been working on for about two and a half or three years, where we're allowing the consumer to take the purchase process beyond just

Sam Abuelsamid  59:01  
shopping online. And that's what true car mostly was up until now

Mike Darrow  59:05  
was shopping site. And what we would do is we'd gate we'd show you dealer inventory, so you could see pricing. And then if you found a vehicle you were interested in, we'd make a connection for you with the dealer and you can continue the process there. What we've done now is started to build out the technology that will allow a consumer to go from what we say discovery to driveway, which is from shopping, through finding a car they want with the price they're looking for actually calculating a payment or real payment that would be similar to what you do in a showroom. About three years ago, we invested in a company called dealer science. It was developed by a third generation Honda dealer and it's a legitimate desking tool. And we built that into our software. So if you find the vehicle you're looking for, you get the price then we put you into the desking tool. You can tell us whether you're a lease or a loan type customer you can calculate your payments on

Sam Abuelsamid  59:58  
a digital equivalent of Going into the f&i office. Exactly.

Mike Darrow  1:00:01  
It's even pre f&i. It's kind of what the salesman would do, how much can you afford kind of thing. So we're replacing those showroom activities. We made an investment in a company, another company called Acme trade. And they allow us to put a guaranteed cash value on your trading. So if you're shopping on our site, and you're getting ready to buy that new Jaguar, and you want to trade your Mazda in, you put your plate in, tell us a little bit about the car. And we can give you a guaranteed cash offer. So that when you go to the dealership, you don't have to worry about what value they're gonna put on my car, you know, am I gonna, a lot of that that happened at the dealership was, did that particular dealer want that piece of inventory, right, and we can look at cars and say, here's the demand for that car, we can put a value on it that we know other dealers will take for it. So it's enabled us to create a real cash value for the car. So you found your car, you got your price, calculated your payment, know the value of your trade. And we did a partnership with a company called Auto phi. And they're a lending as a solution, you know FinTech kind of company. And it allows the consumer to connect directly with the lending sources. So you fill out a credit app on our site, we'll send it out to a half a dozen different banks, they'll send a returns back to you, which is the f&i office type stuff you'd normally do to dealership, and then you can select from what you've seen returned to you and actually lock in the financing. And we do insurance products, you know, extended warranties, and tire and wheel protection, whatever gap insurance, whatever it is, you may be looking for, similar to what you'd see in a dealership. And then your paperwork, right. And so we have a deal, electronic deal sheet that we print out, the consumer can sign that the dealer signs it. And all of this is done with dealer inventory, and dealer number, right. So we're just a technology that's kind of enabling the demand side of the business to connect with the supply side. And it allows us to be flexible and kind of adaptive, nimble, because it's an asset light kind of deal. Carvanha, for example, is a vertically integrated dealers,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:12  
right? Because they have to buy the cars and storing on the car

Mike Darrow  1:02:14  
moving and all of that stuff. We're working out of the local dealer inventory, you know, for these situations, so we get you through the paperwork. And then you tell us Do you want to go to the dealership and pick the car up? About 50% of people tend to indicate they do they still want to meet the service manager, if it's a new car, they want to get their warranty worker, you know, service done. And the other one, say, hey, ship the car to me. And we're doing testing right now with a national shipping company called a service. And, you know, we're in pilot, and we'll see how that comes up. But we plan to have a national network to eventually shift cars for consumers all across the US.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:02:51  
So for the our the dealers responding to this, you know, we're getting

Mike Darrow  1:02:57  
a much better response than we would have two years ago. So COVID had a huge impact on our industry, right? So it accelerated the dealer's understanding of having to find new ways to do retail. And what their feeling is, I think, which everybody in our industry is, is that you can buy products outside of automotive digitally, on almost everything, right? You can buy major appliances, you can buy shoes, you can buy books, go and vote, you can buy everything, you come to automotive, and it's still very non sophisticated in that way. So that's our goal we want to build bring a real two sided marketplace, to automotive where buyers and sellers can come together. Amazon's easy compared to that studio, you think of a company like Airbnb. Have you ever used Airbnb, they got these local homeowners who they bring out, and then you got people who want to travel, they make the connections. And they're just a technology in between that so.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:03:53  
So a lot of OEMs over the last year and a half, you know, been rolling out various form digital platforms to try to, you know, enables sales online. And, you know, I think for a lot of the franchise dealer partners, you know, there's concern, you know, that that the OEMs are trying to disintermediate them, right. Are you finding that there may be more law coming to your solution as opposed to the OEM solution? Because they maybe maintain a little more control over the process or have more involvement.

Mike Darrow  1:04:33  
I think retailers in their OEM partners are rebuilding their relationships right now. Some of them like Nissan is launch Nissan from home. The Nissan dealers, we talked to, some of them like so I mean, you know, I think what you'll see is, Ford announced, Harley announced this morning that they want to get big into Build Order. And so that's another step that the OEMs can take to build the car. What we're hearing from Ford is they're still getting delivered through the dealer so you can order it so,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:02  
right. Well, we're just trying to reduce the amount of inventory the dealers have to carry. That's right. Yeah. I mean, there's advantages and disadvantages, you know, for the dealers, you know, they don't have the the floor plan costs, you know, if they've got less inventory, you know, there's less risk. And in that respect, on the other hand, you know, there's less opportunity, you know, for somebody that walks in, and they want to drive off with a car today, instead of having to wait six weeks or,

Mike Darrow  1:05:28  
well, you know, pre COVID, I think the industry ran at around 90 days supply, Ford's claiming to be at 20. Now, I think their ideal target is 60.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:05:38  
So you can it's traditionally been the target is around 60 days. So I

Mike Darrow  1:05:42  
think if they manage the inventory back to about 60, to that there's there's a pretty steady flow of immediate demand in our country that other markets, like in Europe, I guess everybody orders everything dealers don't. Yeah, very different. There's almost 4 million cars a year in the US that are total loss. So those people come to the market

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:02  
have an order right. Now,

Mike Darrow  1:06:05  
they got nine days to do something settle a claim. Now, many of them are used car buyers, they're replacing a used car. But there's some immediate need in our industry that brings immediate buyers to the market. And I think the OEMs will find the sweet spot, the rare that should be 60 days is probably a good number, if you can keep it around there. Again,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:24  
I think they I think they would actually prefer to get it probably closer to 30.

Mike Darrow  1:06:28  
They can do it, you can do it. The problem is when you place an order, and I've heard this, you probably have to a lot of people have gone in that Bronco motor list, right? What happens is after a couple of months, it sounded like a good idea. But then they get bored and they go to heck with it. I'm canceling I'm gonna go buy something else. So what I would wonder is how long will someone Wait? You don't want to build the order. And if somebody if some competing brand has the car sitting there that they want up to

Sam Abuelsamid  1:06:55  
this Tesla apparently it's multiple units.

Mike Darrow  1:06:59  
Morocco, Morocco orders for next summer I'm hearing so

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:04  
yeah. And with Maki, you know they they open the order book, you know, a year before the first more than the year before. But first deliveries, I have a friend of mine, he ordered oranges on day one in November of 2019 and got it in February of this year. So it was you know, 1415 months? Yeah,

Mike Darrow  1:07:25  
a lot. We were down talking to the Nissan folks, they introduced their reo. Today, they opened up an order bank for that today, they're starting to see some things come in. So

Sam Abuelsamid  1:07:34  
that's gonna be 10 months before those cars arrive that's released minimum, right,

Mike Darrow  1:07:37  
what we tend to see from consumers, unless they're very brand loyal, and they get a BMW every three years or a nice Nissan. They want to shop across brands. And no matter what kind of tools the dealers in the OEMs introduce, it's still going to be very brand centric. So we think one of the values we bring is we allow a consumer, we've got about 450,000 new cars on our site, we've got about 700,000 us cars. So you can look at the Nissan next to the Toyota next to the Honda. You can look at, you know, the BMW, the Audi and the Mercedes all together rather than having to go to Mercedes and go to BMW. So we think there's some convenience in building out that marketplace joint

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:20  
comparisons in one place. That's right. This is your platform intended to go for both new and new. Okay, so that's, you know, that's probably an advantage you might have over most of the OEM solutions. That's right. As well as the Carvana is, yeah,

Mike Darrow  1:08:39  
they're all us,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:08:40  
right? Yeah, cuz you got you got to have that choice, that option for consumer. Yeah. How, you know, from a business perspective, you know, how, you know, how does it work, you know, does TrueCar get a cut of every transaction? Yeah.

Mike Darrow  1:08:57  
Our relationship with our retail partners is transaction based. Right now they pay us 299. For every new card, we help them sell and 399 for us. So unlike some of our competitors, who are more like marketing platforms, and they sell advertising space, and subscriptions, and buttons and bells, and we don't have any ads on our site, we're tricking our sites built to take someone who's in the shopping process, and move them to the purchase in an orderly fashion. And till recently, we moved them to the purchase, and then we handed them to the dealer. And now we're going to create an environment where they can take those, you know, half a dozen final steps on our site, still be dealing with a dealer, still buying a dealer's piece of inventory, but actually being able to do the whole thing without leaving the true part environment.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:09:45  
And that's called TrueCar plus three, plus, that's the last nine. Breathing uppercase or lowercase

I was with Toyota on on Sunday and Monday for their evolution event they're doing in Encinitas. And they were, they showed us the the BZ for x. And you know, aside from being just a ridiculous name, yeah, they've also got this next kit, lowercase b, uppercase, Zed Z, for uppercase x. And the way they had it all the materials, the lowercase b was superscripted. Like, oh, you aren't expecting us to write it like that.

Mike Darrow  1:10:31  
was funny. We were stint. I don't remember Beth, if I was with you in a room, but we were standing looking at that. Display. And one of their PR folks was talking to someone from the media. And I guess the B stands for

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:43  
beyond zero. Yeah,

Mike Darrow  1:10:45  
I had no idea what

Sam Abuelsamid  1:10:46  
that letter is beyond zero, the floor is an indicator of where the vehicle stands in the lineup from a size perspective grid. So the higher the number of bidders vehicle, lower number smaller vehicle, and then the X is crossover. So presumably, when there's an electric sedan, it'll be an S or something else. And of course, LBZ, forex just rolls right off the tongue. Yeah, I will, I will recommend, just just to spite that naming convention, I will recommend to people to just go to a Subaru dealer and buy a soltera has a better name. Sharing a platform with them. Yeah, they co developed it, you know, Subaru did a lot of the engineering work on it. And you know, built on the same assembly line, and you look at him, aside from some slight differences in the front facia, they're identical. If you take the badges off, 99.9% of people won't fall apart. So when when do TrueCar plus rollout,

Mike Darrow  1:11:50  
we're in testing in a market in Florida right now. And then the plan is through q1 of 2022, we'll try to start rolling it out in in, in the state of Florida, a lot of big markets areas, you know, and then we pick Florida because there's limited impact seasonality down there, you know, you get pretty good weather Most of the time, so we'll be pretty well covered through Florida at the end of q1, and then we'll start looking at other markets to roll out. There's there's some dealer participation elements in it, that you've got to we got to spend some time with the dealers in the market to get them on board. So there's some SLAs, we asked them to live up to, they can't change the deal to change the price can change the parameters of the deal. We got to have a seven day return policy. You know, we're bringing some of the elements that we've learned from some of the, you know, folks who have really raised the bar on consumer experience Carmax, as long as some of them are out there that have done it. And so that's going to cause us to do it market by market versus a national thing, because we want to make sure that the dealers live up to the expectations on what we're putting out there. So,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:12:59  
so experiences. Yeah, so dealers, you know, as they get inventory, they'll enter in that vehicle into the system. Price is fixed. And, you know, when when a shopper goes through slots of car, you know, that's that's the price they pay, and there's no negotiating about it. Yeah, okay.

Mike Darrow  1:13:16  
And it's interesting, we did some research, because at one time, you know, fruit cart brand was a lot about price, you know, how do I go to fruit learn understand pricing. Consumers tell us what they're looking for around pricing is more fairness than the lowest price. Now, there are some folks who will spend three weekends arguing over 100 bucks. But most of us don't have time. I've

Sam Abuelsamid  1:13:38  
never done that. So actually, no, I haven't. Because anytime, if it comes down to that I just walk away. Yeah.

Mike Darrow  1:13:45  
So people are saying, Hey, if you if you show me a price, and it's got everything, and I don't want to get to the end and find out there's three things you're going to add to that. So that's another part of the SLA with the dealers is price has to be the complete price. And if you can show me data that says that's a fair price compared to what other folks pay, which we do now. That that's good, and they're ready to go. And if the experience is better, they're more than happy with that. So, you know, the internet got the blame for forcing dealer margins down at one time. I think now it's starting to the tide starting to swing on that and say, you know, we may be able to improve the relationship between the dealer and the consumer around pricing, because of the proposition that

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:25  
Yeah, I mean, if you're, if it's less frustrating for consumers, you don't have that hassle. People probably be willing to pay a little bit more just to be able to give the get the deal over with one

Mike Darrow  1:14:39  
minute for me to look at my door Nashville. For the convenience of having somebody bring that bag to my house. Yeah, well, I mean, it's great.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:14:46  
What one other thing with suppose consumer from outside of the region where that dealer is, is shopping for something that may not be available in their area they they can look around you In some other zip code or a couple 100 miles away, is there you have anything in the platform to arrange, for example, for shipping?

Mike Darrow  1:15:08  
We do. Yeah, we're gonna get involved in the shipping process. We're gonna test right now to do that and ship nationally. What we're what we're figuring out now is, particularly on new cars, there's some tax regulations about buying cars out of state versus in state. And we got to make sure our product addresses that. So if you're here in Southern California, and you find a car in Arizona, you want we got to make sure all the tax things are taken care

Sam Abuelsamid  1:15:34  
of. And but if you know if you if you want to buy something from the the Bay Area, for example, yeah. That's very simple. Yeah. What about was I going to ask you, I slipped right out of my mind. Oh, for the use cars for the trade ends? Is the trade in those are going to the dealer and you're not. I mean, aside from facilitating the transaction, you're not you're not buying those cars, the dealers buying those cars, and then they take care of any refurbishment. And yeah, putting it back

Mike Darrow  1:16:09  
on the backstop value, which is a guarantee Yeah, you if the dealer gets the car and says, Hey, I don't want it we will take it but what we do is we just immediately move it to another dealer who wants it now where we see that happened is if it's an off brand kind of thing that it you know, somebody tried to cheat trade a very expensive portion at a Chevy store maybe in a Chevy guy's gone. I don't care. I don't know what to do with this car will move but it's less than point 5% of the vehicles we put a number on do we actually get back? Very, very small. Yes, our market is very hot right now dealers whenever used car they can get. So we see very seldomly, do we see a an exchange or you know, someone saying, hey, I want this car, come get it.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:16:51  
Alright. And so consumers would go to the True, true car.com and find that interface, son. Yeah.

Mike Darrow  1:16:57  
Okay. And I said, we're testing it by market. So you'd have to be in a zip code of one of the markets, we're testing him, but yet we put them right into the experience and

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:06  
Alright, excellent. Sounds good. Sounds like something that, you know, another solution that I think consumers will be interested to try out, you know, to make that car shopping experience a little, a little less painful, less friction.

Mike Darrow  1:17:23  
And in the beauty of it is we're bringing the dealers with us, so that hopefully we can change that dynamic from them being the bad guy to now they're the good guys. They can do the things they're good at, right? They can do service, they can fall off, they can do the things that gets the consumer beyond that price gnashing and all of that things that go on a purchase. Right. All right. Well, thank you. Hey, great meeting. Appreciate it to talk to you.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:17:52  
Already, and now we've got a bunch of listener questions that came in over the last couple of days. First one from Dan Vesna. At des investment on Twitter. Yes. Through some sort of mix up. You have to pick one British car to use as your daily driver. $30,000 budget used or new? Which car what color?

Roberto Baldwin  1:18:16  
Oh, man, that is? That's a tough question.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:20  
Especially given that there's not a whole lot of British cars left. Yeah,

Roberto Baldwin  1:18:24  
yeah, I saw that. And like the entire time you were you were telling everybody talking about true car like, Oh my God, what do I got? Who's making cars still that I could afford?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:37  
I think at this point, first $30,000 budget, it's gonna have to be something used. Yeah, you're not gonna get anything new. I mean, it's basically Jaguar Land Rover. And Rolls Royce and Bentley is the British car industry. Now.

Roberto Baldwin  1:18:51  
You can cheat and say many but it's not really that's a pretty well, it's a British car, but it's a German owned British car. So does that count tech?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:18:57  
Yeah, I would say so. Alright, as long as it's a hardtop, you can't Yeah, like the, the country men or the can't be either. Because those are built in Austria, or okay. They're built in the Netherlands now. But yeah, mini mini would count. That's British.

Roberto Baldwin  1:19:17  
I'm gonna say the mini then. Yeah, I think that's that's I mean, I would I would like it to be the defender. But that's it starts to like 50,000 So the mini the hardtop Mini? I don't, where's the mini se built? I'm sure it's probably a building.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:33  
Yeah, all the small minis are built out in Oxford. I'm gonna say the mini SE.

Roberto Baldwin  1:19:37  
Just because and this is just this is anecdotal evidence. But everyone I know who's owned a mini has had some sort of transmission problem. And when you're you have an electric mini you don't have that.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:19:53  
Well, I don't know if you've been a few follow Lisa Laporte on Twitter. Her mini se Stuck in the garage right now. Apparently it's got some kind of fault it won't run. And they set out to different tow trucks yesterday to try and get it out of the garage they couldn't the tow truck drivers could not figure out how to get it out of the garage. It's Oh cuz locked. Yeah, and you know, Jack it up the wheel dollies under it. Yeah. Oh, man. I don't know what the problem is. Might be transmission. Who knows? It will move right now.

Roberto Baldwin  1:20:26  
Oh, no. I'm just gonna still say that many. Yes. That's That's my under 30,000 Because it's like 29 Nine something. Yeah, it's it. Yeah. So that's my $30,000 British car. Definitely not a like a I've driven voxels before and they're fine, I guess.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:20:47  
I am gonna say technically the car that we have in our garage is a British car. Our 2017 Honda Civic hatchback, was built in the UK at Honda's plant, Honda's UK plant. And so, technically it's British. It was built there with British labor, British parts, really some British parts and then imported to the to the US. So I'm going to go with the previous generation Honda Civic hatchback, the new Civic hatchback, the 2022 models that both Nicole and I drove in recent weeks. Those are actually built here in Ohio or in Indian Indiana. But they all the previous generation were built in the UK so I'm gonna go with the Honda Civic Hatchback.

Roberto Baldwin  1:21:31  
I like it. We're essentially just this is not good for the for the the the British automotive world because we're just like, kind of like wow, technicalities. We're using technicalities. I will say that I can get the the Cooper SC hardtop in British Racing Green for no extra money. Oh, $29,900 Boom. Great. Do it. The electric mini SC 116. I got to 120 I don't know how I was able to get 120 miles of range like driving like I do. But yeah, downhill. Driving downhill. Now. It's it's a fun, it's a great little car. I really have a lot of fun driving, I think around I was sad when it left that that doesn't happen a lot. Like a lot of cars. I've had them. Some of them I get a little sad when they leave. And most of them are just like, Well, that was it. That was the thing that happened. Yeah, that was fine. I don't know if I'm cynical. But that's just that's just the nature of the job.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:30  
Well, one of the one of the strange things about our our civic, and actually, I would have picked the Civic Type bar, but I don't think you could, I don't doubt you can get used one for under 30 grand right now. But the engine in our civic, the 1.5 liter turbo was actually built in Ohio was manufactured Nan, Ohio, shipped to the UK, installed in the civic in the Civic Hatchback in the UK. And then the car was shipped back here.

Roberto Baldwin  1:22:57  
After that well traveled engine, that engine

Sam Abuelsamid  1:22:59  
had a lot of miles on it before it ever turned over. Alright, next one from Wes. With future implementation of solid state batteries and the efficiency gains from optimized hardware software integration, you think we'll see a return to the vehicles being designed more for style and elegance, like in the 30s 40s and 50s Putting drag coefficients in the backseat?

Roberto Baldwin  1:23:23  
I think so I think there's there's i This is a really good point I didn't really actually thought about is that at some point, the EVS especially especially, you know, if solids there are lithium ion just gets quick enough where and again, I think it's it's now I feel like it's less about range anxiety, it's about charging anxiety, like, oh, it's gonna take 2030 minutes to do this. And when you can charge up an Eevee in 510 minutes. And it's getting, you know, the battery technology has gotten, you know, super efficient, where you're not, you don't need a, you know, a 0.2 drag coefficient, I think we're gonna probably see a little bit more adjustment in in design styles where you know, the EQ s, I think is is a is a great car, but I think it also kind of does not, it sort of looks like a Mercedes, but mostly it's, it's designed to do really well to be very efficient. Exterior wise. So I think that's, you know, we're probably gonna see more s classy EQ s is in the, in the future as everything gets a bit more efficient. And

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:23  
you can get the Lucid Air. Yeah, no, later, but you know, it's got a distinct look to it.

Roberto Baldwin  1:24:30  
Yeah, I think you know, I think we're gonna I mean, we're, we will definitely see more big weird trucks. I can tell you that more Ballinger type vehicles that have zero that would have had zero drag coefficient, or drag coefficient. We've been like, 3.8 or something. Yeah, you

Sam Abuelsamid  1:24:45  
got the Hummer EV and, you know, the, the F 150 is, you know, F 150 lightnings not exactly, select cybertruck You know, so yeah, I mean, we'll definitely see more. More In, you know, different takes on design and design is an ever evolving thing. I don't know that will necessarily go back to, you know, something like the 30s 40s or 50s. You know, certain, you're definitely not going to have you know, those, you know, pointed, you know, those torpedo yo style lights and things like that, you know, because those tend to impale pedestrians.

Roberto Baldwin  1:25:20  
Oh, yeah. Why not? I'm like, oh, yeah, the same reason you can't have like, we have a jet, we have the Jaguar logo and the jumping jumping cat on our on our Jaguar. And you can't sell those in Europe anymore, because well, they stab people. Anyway, get hit with their car they made immediately getting paid.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:25:40  
Alright, next up from enth degree burns on Twitter. He's actually got three questions. So start off with are any manufacturers offering OEM upgrades for their charging clusters to go from USB A to USB C? Are there any aftermarket companies making drop in replacements for charging clusters, examples on our console, two USBs plus one ox port and my RAM 1500. For example. Well, I'm going to assume based on your description there that your Ram 1500s of pre 2018 model, because the ones after 2018 all have multiple USB C's and AES as do all the still Lantis vehicles now, I doubt you're going to see any sort of drop in replacements, because every every vehicles got a different configuration of where the ports are. It's not, it's not like, you know, in the past with audio head units where you had a standardized format, that's that's never been standardized, you know, the port, the USB ports have never been standardized. So a drop in replacement. But your best bet is just to get like a little adapter that goes into your 12 volt socket, your lighter socket with a couple of USB C's and I'll put a link in the in the show notes to Monoprice. They've got a 12 volt socket 12 volt adapter with two USB sees, that does I think 48 Watts has 48 Watt output or 445 watts. So this will do you know fairly fast charging on any, any modern phones or devices with USBC. And you know, 45 Watts, you can even charge low end MacBooks low end laptops at a semi reasonable speed. And that's only 1699. So that's, that's your best bet is to just get something like that.

Roberto Baldwin  1:27:38  
If you want to go really crazy, you can rewire the port. And if it's its own panel, if it's not part of a larger panel like that, where the the actual ports are, you could 3d print, you can measure it out, you can bust out the 3d printer, and you could 3d print replacement port that'll that'll accept the USB C instead of USB A. That's, you know, if you're a nerd Do you know go for it? See what happens. This should be fine, though. And it's just yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:07  
I mean, yeah, I doubt yeah, like I said, I don't think you're going to see you know, aftermarket solutions like that just because they're so non standardized. But yeah, but But definitely, you know, you can you can do it yourself, you know, do it yourself solutions and, and also just, you know, stuff the plug into the 12 volt outlet.

Roberto Baldwin  1:28:25  
You could also you don't even have to rewire it you could probably just get like a little cable that goes from USB A to USB C that has the that's a let's see. Yeah, USB A to USB C that has the female receptacle and then 3d print that thing and put it in there. That way you're not like messing with things but it mean you're still gonna have

Sam Abuelsamid  1:28:45  
if you're gonna have that yeah, that's the thing if you're going to do that you probably want to go ahead and rewire it so you get the height and the power delivery and get the higher wattage that you can't get over USB A USB A is limited to five or 10 Watts

Roberto Baldwin  1:28:58  
charging you try to plug in your laptop and it takes three it's just barely Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:29:05  
Okay, yeah, the next question from F degree burns. Regarding the Jeep Grand Cherokee l did you get information about the two row version any chance of a discount for deleting, deleting the third row I'm assuming with the resulting deletion leave a relatively flat load floor like the custom no third row on the Chevy Tahoe LS. So the two the two there is a two row Grand Cherokee there's not going to be a two row Grand Cherokee well, there's a standard two row Grand Cherokee which is shorter so you get you know, less cargo space and less less volume inside. But just you're not I don't think there's ever going to be a delete option for the third row on the grand cherokee all I don't know if you heard anything different.

Roberto Baldwin  1:29:49  
No, it wouldn't save any money. It's like I used to be a veggie I was vegetarian for 17 years, and taking the meat off of the meal didn't save me any money. Like, this is the price. This is what you're paying. And even for, especially for this, that the Leisha would be more money for the because they have to because they they're they're built a certain way. This is how we build this widget. This is how we build this widget, hey, can you take this one notch off this widget? Like what? Well, that's going to take extra work, because this is how we build the widget this widget. So yeah, yeah, I mean, you could again, you could probably get it custom, you could buy it, buy it with the third row, have it removed, have someone take it out, and then I don't just fold

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:31  
them down and leave. I feel like holding it down. If you ever if you ever have an emergency and need to carry, you know, sixth or seventh passengers, so you've got them there, you can pop them up.

Roberto Baldwin  1:30:40  
What's nice also is if you have that third row like that, like saying that Outlander, you don't have it keeps things from rolling around. That's true. And that's what partitioner Yeah, it's a partition. It's Dalinar. Third row isn't so much for sitting, it's for partitioning

Sam Abuelsamid  1:30:54  
constrain your dog, you know, yeah, I'm in a constrained area

Roberto Baldwin  1:30:57  
you stay here, dog.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:31:01  
Alright, and then regarding Roberta's advice about leasing an Eevee? Or does Roberta's advice about leasing an Eevee change with a plug in hybrid? He's recommended leasing EVs since battery and charging tech is changing so much right now. Is that as much of an issue if you're still making if you're still mixing the battery, and and I see,

Roberto Baldwin  1:31:20  
I you know what I think you could just buy up he have I mean, we look at I think Toyota, especially you look at what Toyota has done, I mean, most of those vehicles are going forever, they still have some pretty good range, and you're you're gonna lose some range, but you're also not using the the battery 100% of the time when you're using a P HEV. You're you're you're using it, maybe 50, maybe 40 There's a lot of like, sort of switching back and forth and how you doing? I think he has, you're probably going to be a bit more safe buying a P HEV. If you can't, I mean, I feel like leasing right now is almost sort of the the the power move, just because buying anything is so expensive. And you can there still are some lease deals that you can, you can sort of get into that or from the manufacturer. So leasing might just be the way to go. Period, if you need a car and you don't want to pay $20,000 above asking, or $15,000 or you know, yeah, you know, when you're out there looking at what what you want. See what the manufacturer is asking and just hammer that home and you go into a dealership, right? Well the manufacturing's has this lease deal for this, this, this and this, and then they're like, whoa, and you're, again, just walk away, because someone will make that deal for you. Because they, when you lease, they feel like they really got you because they got they know they know. Alright, so now you're going to be back for something else. Exactly. You're going to come back in the year you're a repeat customer, as far as they're concerned when you when you lease and also you're someone who's going to come in for service. Because you don't you want to make sure that lease at the end of that three years, you're not going to you know, incur any weird charges because you didn't take care of it or whatever. So yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:33:04  
So yeah, that sounds like leasing may still be a good deal for you right now. You know, in terms of the technology, it probably doesn't make much difference. I mean, one thing, you know, just as with battery electrics with a plug in hybrid, plug in hybrids are getting improved with better batteries. So you're getting more electric range, I think, the 22 model, Volvo plug in hybrids all have higher capacity batteries now. So the range is going from like 1819 miles, up to about 2829 miles for the 22 models. So yeah, there's still some benefits to leasing even with a plug in hybrid. Alright, reader car me on Twitter asks, thanks for answering my question. I agree that dealerships are terrible. I wish I could avoid them. Hyundai USA is website excludes the ionic five but thanks to you guys. I looked at my local dealers webpage. And they gave and they have them in stock face with a facepalm emoji in the tweet. I'm going to I'm going to take a test drive says I rented a Tesla Model y from Tearle for a test drive and to run errands. It's the right size to replace a Prius supercharging maybe a lock in. There are no other fast chargers in Wyoming which I drive too frequently. But the bad reliability and lack of repair parts is so scary. The Hyundai dealership wants $1,000 deposit today to let me test drive the car in two weeks. And they're selling it for $5,000 over MSRP plus $700 dealership handling fee. Out Of course they only have the top of the line model. Maybe I can get by without for a while. So that's sort of the top of the line. That's actually unfortunately that that's something that you'll find from most managers. actuators when a model is brand new, they usually start off building the high end trims. You know, because the people that want them right away, you know, are tend to be willing to pay more. So they start off with the high end trims and get the lower end trims a few weeks or months later after launch. So I'm not surprised that they only have the limited for the ionic $5,000 deposit unless the deposits drive it. Unless it's fundable. No, no, just No, just go find find another dealer somewhere. There's got to be another dealer. That's That's ridiculous. And then, you know, the $5,000 over sticker again.

Roberto Baldwin  1:35:44  
No, no. If you can wait, wait. Yeah, you know, and if the reader Carmi makes a good point about the Tesla Model y and the Supercharger network, the Supercharger network, that's that's the killer app for Tesla. And when it really comes down to it, I mean, yes, they have, you know, these these really great battery and engine engineering. But that supercharging network is just there a few if someone had like said to me, what's the easiest car for someone who's not going to be anal retentive about planning their route across America? What's the what Evie would you get? It would automate it, which would be the Tesla because of the supercharging network. So yeah, that's, that's, uh, that's it? Yeah, it's a tough thing. I mean, Electrify America is doing better. I'm seeing more and more Electrify America. spots open up, Evie, go ChargePoint. You know, they're all sort of coming out with more stuff. And so it's getting better for everyone else. But the Supercharger network?

Sam Abuelsamid  1:36:44  
Well, yeah. And the challenge is still in some remote areas like Wyoming, I don't know if EA has any stations, or if there's any other you know, fast charger, you know, really fast chargers in in Wyoming besides Tesla, you know, that that is the thing that Tesla has probably done better than anything else is proliferating that fast charging network, making it accessible, and also making sure that it's relatively reliable. I mean, at times there, there have been issues with reliability of their charges, but far less than with any of the other networks. So yeah. Yeah, that's if you if you have to go someplace like that, right now that that may be the better solution. Or consider a plug in hybrid, if you can, if you can get your hands on a Prius Prime or a focus plug in hybrid, or not focusing escape, plug in hybrid, you know, those are also really good options. You know, that gets you electric driving for the vast majority of your driving. And then you know, when you need to take a long trip, you need, especially if you're going someplace relatively remote, you're going to have probably a much higher probability of finding gasoline than you are finding a fast charger.

Roberto Baldwin  1:37:59  
Yeah, years ago, I wrote an article that Tesla should open up their charging network to other automakers or to other vehicles. And I talked to someone at Tesla about it. And it's really coming, you know, there has to be a software heart handshake. It's not just like plugging it in. It's not like getting gas like the the charger has to recognize the vehicle, which means Tesla would have to like buy these vehicles, or at least them or whatever, in order to like learn how to all of them do but it's not. I mean, Electrify America does it ego does it everyone else does this. And then or last year, it seemed like that was going to be a real option. Elon Musk tweeted like, Oh, we're gonna allow, you know, by the end of the year? Well, by the end of the year, the only thing they did is there's like two chargers, I think in Sweden. I think I think it's in the Netherlands or the Netherlands. Yes. Some other ones somewhere up north in here. That's the dumb American way of Europe, they have two to two supercharger stations that that are that are a part of a pilot program. Now how soon that pilot program expands to other parts of Europe and then maybe eventually United States who knows Tesla's not exactly known for its its speedy delivery on any sort of product or service.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:39:12  
Yeah, I think one, one thing that may prompt Tesla to speed up that process, especially later in the year, is when they start doing the grants for the from the infrastructure package, infrastructure bill for public charging. You know, I think Tesla's going to be applying for some of those grants to pay for some chargers in some of these areas. And in order to do that the Chargers have to be available to anyone to use. It can't can't be restricted. So that may be one thing that prompts them to speed up here. You know, the part of the reason why they did it in Europe first is because in Europe, they already have to use CCS, charging connectors rather than their proprietary connector. So that simplifies it, because you don't need an adapter for other cars to use the chargers, they can still plug in, then you just have to take care of the software side of it. And, you know, most likely, you know, what they'll end up doing is they'll, they'll have to publish some API's and then other manufacturers will have to make their cars compatible with the Chargers. And they'll be responsible for testing them probably rather than Tesla testing them all.

Roberto Baldwin  1:40:31  
You know, it's it's, it's, it's sort of it's a money, it's, it's money for them, because a they sell the adapters. So now everyone who buys a TT icon, or ionic five has to buy now a Tesla adapter that goes from their Tesla proprietary to CCS. And then they get money for plugging it in. You know, they're getting their MC and they want to charge like a premium and

Sam Abuelsamid  1:40:53  
they get higher utilization of the charging network. So,

Roberto Baldwin  1:40:57  
but I got a lot of hate mail for that article, though. People were just like, No, they don't have to do I can't I'm like, Whoa, I thought you all cared about saving the world. Apparently not. Apparently, they all just cared about being part of a special group. If you want to save the world, then you should make sure everyone can can everybody should be you should be happy when anybody else is making an Eevee should be happy when everyone can charge all at the same time. You should you know if that's your goal, to quote unquote, save the world as people like to point that Elon Musk is doing then it's not you know, saving the world in my special group. It's saving the world globally. But you know, what do I know? Yeah, I'm the crazy guy.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:41:37  
Alright, last question is from J PM. What is the best technique for preserving brake pad life, easing into the brakes and letting the car stop smoothly, or heartbreak with a more abrupt stop,

Roberto Baldwin  1:41:50  
never stop.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:41:53  
Just keep rolling.

Roberto Baldwin  1:41:54  
Just keep rolling.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:41:55  
Never touched that brake pedal,

Roberto Baldwin  1:41:57  
never touch it, it'll

Sam Abuelsamid  1:41:57  
never wear out your brakes.

Roberto Baldwin  1:41:59  
I heard that you throw out the back of the car whenever you get home. Never stop.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:42:06  
No, seriously, though. Regardless of what it does to your brake pad life, always go for easing into the brakes and letting the car stop smoothly. Heartbreaking with more abrupt stop is bad for your safety is bad for the safety of those around you. If, if you are always stopping at the last minute, anybody who's falling behind you is more likely to rear end you. And also, you know, anytime that there's any uncertainty about the traction of the road surface, you're driving on heartbreaking. You know, waiting to the last minute to stop means that even with stability control and ABS and everything, you know, those those are limited to Newton's laws of motion. You know, if you don't have friction, you're not stopping. And so it's always better to to drive smoothly, you know, ease into the brakes, let the car stop smoothly. Also, you know, heartbreaking, you're more likely to generate a lot more heat and the brakes, which is also not good for the pads or your rotors. So, you know, smooth, smooth driving is always always always better.

Roberto Baldwin  1:43:16  
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think people don't think about the rotors, there's like, they're just pieces of metal like, now you do a lot of hard braking, you're gonna have a warp rotor. And then whenever you have a warped rotor, you know it also in your braking zone. So if you're trying to figure out what's going on, because especially if you don't drive a lot of cars, you don't drive a lot of performance cars, or you've done that because hard performance driving, you're like what is happening? Why is my car every time why is it the wheel? Is it that Nope. Your rotors shot? Yeah, now they got to read

Sam Abuelsamid  1:43:43  
the hard hard spots in those rotors from from the hot spots? That? Yeah, and in many cases, you can't even machine that out. You may just have to throw them away and get new

Roberto Baldwin  1:43:55  
ones. Yeah. Which is a bummer. Which I break. I mean, a brake job is not that expensive. Well, I mean, if you do it at home, it's first of all, changing your brakes at home is really really easy.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:44:05  
Yeah, I mean, you can get a set of brake pads you know, general you know, general brake pads for 4050 bucks and and the associated parts.

Roberto Baldwin  1:44:13  
If you have a all you need is a I would recommend having a jack and the jack stand. Absolutely. And then some basic tools and for the most part should be fine except for once when we did my friend's Jetta, in the 90 his 90s late 90s Jetta for some reason you had to get like a special tool or drinks or brake pads, but you could get it for free at like O'Reilly or, or whatever auto part. A lot of them like they have a loan, a tool loan program where you can just go in like hey, I want to borrow this tool. You give them a deposit. You borrow the tool. You change your brakes, you bring the tool back, they give you a deposit easy peasy.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:44:49  
Yeah back back in about 91 When I was working for, for GM working for Delco on ABS systems were supporting Lotus Esprit racing program we had we supplied the abs for those cars in the SCCA World Challenge series. And to save time for the, for the team on race weekends. One of the things that we did, we had one of their cars from the previous year out at Milford that we were using for testing for tweaking the ABS calibrations. And so one of the things that I got to do was go out and bed in brake pads for on the race car. So I would go out, drive around for an hour and do a sequence of stops at a certain certain speeds, certain T cell. Just to get the bat, the pads bedded in, and then bring it back into the garage, put it up on the hoist. Pull the pads out, and you know, the racing calipers, you know, just take the wheel off, pop the pads out, pop new new pads in there, go out do it again. Spend the day doing that. That was fun.

Roberto Baldwin  1:45:58  
That sounds like Yeah, that's cool, because then you get to know whenever you see that car on the track, you're like, yeah, that guy's breaking because of me. Yeah, to me. I broke those pads in for him.

Sam Abuelsamid  1:46:07  
Yep. Alright, that's it for this week. Next week. We should have Nicole back as well. So thanks, everybody, and I'll talk to you next time. Bye.