Sam Abuelsamid 0:00 Coming up on episode 252 of wheel bearings we've got the Ford F 150 lightning the rivian r1 t, the Kia Stinger, driving the GM lunar rover in a simulator, the Ford Bronco sport the Ford Bronco Raptor, the Cadillac silastic and a lot of listener questions all that and more coming up next this is episode 252 wheel bearings I am Sam Abuelsamid from Guidehouse insights I Nicole Wakelin 0:33 am Nicole Wakelin from the fast women podcast and Roberto Baldwin 0:37 I am Roberto Baldwin from Ars Technica. Sam Abuelsamid 0:40 And Roberto, what have you been driving? Roberto Baldwin 0:43 So I want to finish up really quickly. The Kia Stinger is awesome. It's just this great little four door sport sedan I really really liked it. Sam Abuelsamid 0:55 Just kind of you could kind of call it a five door because it was a hatchback to Roberto Baldwin 0:59 it is a hatchback. Yes. So it makes it better. hatchbacks are always better cuz you can put more stuff in the back. Yeah, no, it's a great little car. You should go out and buy one if you're looking for our least or not buy one. Okay, you should it should be on your list. If you're looking for sort of sporty fun sedans that you can put people in the back and you're not Nicole Wakelin 1:15 should investigate the possibility to investigate the possibility Roberto Baldwin 1:19 if it's the right vehicle for you. It's yeah, but it's it's priced right it's fun to drive. It's you know, again, it just it continues on the store the whole Hyundai Motor companies or motor groups domination of things that it wants to do. And just sort of does it and you're like wow, this is really nice. So yeah, just Hyundai and Kia just look at their stuff. Sam Abuelsamid 1:43 That's that's such a cool name. Stinger Roberto Baldwin 1:48 like a little bead or something. Yeah, and they Stinger Hyundai Kia Kia Stinger model say Hyundai. Why not? Yeah, it might you know, it has it very much has like a 60s. You know, Hot Rod name the stinger. Yeah, it's got a little b, Sam Abuelsamid 2:05 four cylinder v 60. Yet. Roberto Baldwin 2:08 Music's okay. It was pretty dope. And then let's talk about what I did. After that. I drove the GM lunar rover on the moon, sort of in a simulator in Milford. Sam Abuelsamid 2:22 So you did just the way the Apollo astronauts did in the 60s and right. Roberto Baldwin 2:25 Yep, just gotten them. It turns out like, whenever they when they did the, the original lunar rovers, and they tested them here on earth, when they got to the moon, all that all that information they got from driving around Earth was completely worthless. Because the moon is different. So they knew there's less gravity but there's also this sort of like silt, sharp stabby electrostatically charged dust on the moon that's full of like metal and glass. It's just It's essentially just asteroid bits. And it sticks to everything. You know, hey, when you get like, what's what's the like packing peanuts. You put your hand in the package? Yeah, and it just sticks to your arms. And you know, it's like that except it's sharp stabby moon dust. So that's the thing they have to deal with while they're driving around and 1/6 gravity it was yeah, it was it was really fun. It was really weird though because you don't quite it because it's everything's gray it's hard to have depth perception and this is what they actually found this out from actual astronauts who went to the moon is like because everything's the same color. Like your depth perception is sort of is is it is limited because in here on earth you know like oh, I can look at my window like there's a brown thing and a green thing and a blue thing and this and that and then you know stereoscopic vision you kind of like oh these are closer these are further when you're on the moon everything's just gray just Shades of Grey and it's really just like two or three shades it's because of you know the sun and whatnot Sam Abuelsamid 3:59 so it's like trying to go skiing on an overcast day. Yeah and ever can't really see the contour of the snow Yeah, that's perfect Roberto Baldwin 4:06 that's exactly what it's like and you don't have the you don't have the special you have just regular goggles as opposed to yeah that's it yeah, this is exactly what's like real like I don't Oh, God moguls there. I didn't see that's a perfect actually use that in my article. Oh, well, Julie. It's live sorry. late now. Yeah, no, it was it was it was a it was cool experience. You know, they they're working with Lockheed. They want to get this thing up on the moon before humans. They want to be a level five autonomous vehicle it will drive around it'll map how Nicole Wakelin 4:44 it can't be on the moon before humans because we've already been there. Roberto Baldwin 4:47 Well recently before Sam Abuelsamid 4:48 the next batch I Nicole Wakelin 4:50 didn't there once. Sam Abuelsamid 4:57 We know that we're in a simulator Roberto Baldwin 5:01 Stanley Kubrick told me on his deathbed, before the next grep boundaries, before the next batch of humans make it up to the moon, they want to stay up there going around, mapping, looking around. And then that way when the humans do get there, the vehicles found like some interesting spots. It's essentially a scout. It goes up there and figures out like, hey, there's an interesting thing. How about we go here, instead of having the humans when they get there being like, let's just drive around and figure it out. The vehicle driver and figure it out. It's like when you go visit a family member who lives in a really cool city. You don't have to drive around and figure things out. Your family member just tells you Oh, no, go here. It goes there go here it goes there. Yeah, don't go to that thing. It sucks. That's that's essentially what the world wants to do. He talked about how you know, all the things you have to figure out like wheels, tire, you know, you can't you can't put air because it's a vacuum. You know, they're going to be electric vehicles with batteries, it's going to be based on ultium, they would not tell me really anything, they wouldn't tell me how much range, they would tell me, they would charge Sam Abuelsamid 6:11 and tell me what to use lawn chairs for the seats. Now, they probably won't use lawn Roberto Baldwin 6:15 chairs for the seats. They kept they showed us a bunch of designs of what the different types of seats because you have to take into account the backpacks, you know, the things that keep the astronauts alive, and then the egress and you know, getting in and out of the lunar rover, like, you know, when you get in like, Oh, you don't want that backpack to hit things. And then you know, figuring out how to make it go. So they're like, Oh, well, maybe instead of like an accelerator and a break, because you can't really feel anything because your boots are way bigger than like your shoe size that keep you from dying on the moon. So you can't feel anything. So we're like, Well, why don't we make it lean? You know, I can control like maybe like a motorcycle or something. And then he talks about haptic feedback within the gloves because can't feel anything. You're just like, Nicole Wakelin 6:55 Oh, so you know if you've actually squeezed know that you've connected? Yeah, think about that. But yeah, most giant gloves, you would feel you'd have no idea that you actually engaged what you thought you engaged, like, have I squeezed? Sam Abuelsamid 7:08 But if it's all five, autonomous, do you even really need any of that? Can't you just tell it? No. Roberto Baldwin 7:14 Because you want people to drive it so that they still want to give people the opportunity to drive because when you get to the moon, you're gonna want to drive around, Nicole Wakelin 7:20 see, and I have a more logical answer that when the autonomous technology fails, because the aliens on the moon get pissed off, because we're there, you're gonna need a human to take over and properly pilot that vehicle. I'm just saying, you know, we're all in the hands of technology you want to be able to take over when the aliens show up? Roberto Baldwin 7:34 Yep. So you want to? Okay, yeah, so yeah, and the one that they've been showing. I look like a pickup truck. That's like where they are right now. But they're still evolving to design, they showed us some designs that we weren't allowed to take photos of, where, you know, they move the the solar panel up to the top of the vehicle, so it doesn't have that, you know, electric, electric electrostatically charged dust, essentially sticking to the panels, and of course, reducing the amount of sunlight and reducing the charge rate. So they put it on top, and they put like sides on it. So super, yeah, it was really fun. It was cool. And they you know, they talked about how building the Hummer EV like sort of helped them work on this, which is, yeah, sure. Well, you know, it's the same Sam Abuelsamid 8:21 lesson from the Hummer and didn't make it quite so heavy. Because you know, it costs a lot of money to, you know, per pound to lift stuff from Earth to the Moon. Nicole Wakelin 8:31 Yeah, stuff into space. Roberto Baldwin 8:32 Yes. Yeah. Do you have to take like, all these things into account I talked to them about, you know, they want to be, you know, seeking work on it while it's in the moon. And I asked them whether or not like, well, let's say this thing's on the moon for a few years. And now you have the battery. And now you want to like swap the battery out. And maybe you can use that battery for the Lunar Colony. For another use case where it's not as you know, car using batteries for cars is actually pretty hardcore for the battery. So when you put that battery in your house, it lasts way longer than it would in your car. So it doesn't have to be like pristine. And they're like, oh, yeah, we're kind of investigating that. But they are like making sure that people can work on things on the moon. So you can like take things apart and fix it and fix your lunar rover, your whip your moon with your lunar with your lunar whip. Yeah, and of course, you know, driving the, the the DHL driver in the loop simulator is always fun. Especially because they have to make it so it's like 1/6 gravity. And only will that must be Yeah, it was really weird. It was really weird. Yeah, like Yeah, it's hard to like sort of determine like, where like, how, because of that and the depth perception all these other things like you're hitting a crater and you're like, Wait, what am I going to Oh god, I'm in the air. Sam Abuelsamid 9:51 went a little too fast. There you could Nicole Wakelin 9:53 get on the moon. I mean, just Roberto Baldwin 9:55 and they had like a one kilometer square area like that. We could drive around on that they had mapped out From the moon, and there was this one giant crater and I was just about to dive into it. They're like, please don't do that. We're gonna veto that. There's one, delete if it takes, it takes five minutes to restart the whole thing. And you know, there's other people and I was if I was last they would let me do it. Tim Stevens was last and he was about to do it. And then he hit like, another crater and it's like, through his Oh, yeah, just like all sudden, oh, no, here's another crater like a little tiny. Like, you know, EDB one, he was going for the big one. And it did like through his little loop, his little lunar rover, everywhere. Yeah. And they had to reset the system. And they're, like, never gonna get Yeah, you can go for that. Yeah, he's gonna do it. Oh, never Nicole Wakelin 10:47 cancelled. They really just put a bunch of automotive journalists in charge of actually doing that stuff. I can take that I can take it. Sam Abuelsamid 10:54 I'll drive it would be one hell of a press. If Roberto Baldwin 11:00 you're on the moon is a press junket. Sam Abuelsamid 11:05 We only get to stay there for 18 hours. Seven days going back there, but you only get to spend 18 hours on the surface. Roberto Baldwin 11:14 Yeah, then we're gonna have we're gonna have a lunch and it's gonna be the exact same lunch. Sam Abuelsamid 11:19 Chicken fish or beef, Roberto Baldwin 11:21 chicken fish or beef. On the moon on the moon people either every every Instagram would be. I mean, fish on the moon. I'm having some Moon chicken. So yeah, no, it was really fun. It was really cool. They're working with Lockheed Martin, Lockheed Martin. You know, they've been sending stuff up into space forever. aerospace company. GM built the first lunar rover so they sort of know what they're doing. We kind of have that. And of course, they have the ultimate system. So yeah, I'm I'm excited. Oh, this is all for the Artemis, you know, international, essentially, Moon trip that they're going to do where we Sam Abuelsamid 12:03 might even launch one of those. Roberto Baldwin 12:05 Yeah, so it'll be it'll be interesting what you do on the moon? Or whalers on the moon. That's all I could do the whole time. Was that future on a song? But yeah, that's me driving on the moon. Sort of, Nicole Wakelin 12:21 sort of sort of kind of as close as you can come. Roberto Baldwin 12:23 Let's Yeah, close is I'll be able to ever be able to drive on the moon. That was me. All right, Sam Abuelsamid 12:29 Nicole. Me. Yes. Your turn. Okay. Nicole Wakelin 12:32 I'm all for Bronco all the time, apparently, forever. So much like I had a run like, well, let's try to run like it was Hyundai Hyundai Hyundai Drive Program and they had mandate I'm doing the same thing with the cars I have at home and the cars that I'm going to drive or have just driven so the car that was in my driveway was the Ford Bronco sport, which is the baby Bronco. It's not the same as the bronco. The Broncos. It's not just like a separate Sam Abuelsamid 12:56 sort of kinda looks like a Bronco but it's not really a Roberto Baldwin 12:58 bra. Yeah, when people are like, Oh, you did a Bronco you're like a sport so Nicole Wakelin 13:02 like don't get to get it's not like one of those things where it's like the Bronco Sport trim. No, the Bronco sport is its own separate little vehicle and it still has I mean it can do some off roading it's not it's not a wimpy vehicle some they drove a bunch of them on the rebel rally when this first came out and they all survived. They all made it to the end so I mean it can go off road but it's still not a bronco. It is not as off road hardcore in your face and the doors don't come off and all that kind of stuff. So it's like Bronco light. Sam Abuelsamid 13:31 It's what a Ford Escape would would want to be when it grows up when it when you Nicole Wakelin 13:36 escape some steroids like yeah, Roberto Baldwin 13:38 it's a better Ford Escape. Nicole Wakelin 13:40 Is it better it is a better Ford Escape. So Bronco sport, that's what I had this week in my driveway. This one has a it has a 1.5 liter engine there's 181 horsepower 190 pound feet of torque it moves along just fine. It's nice and comfortable. It has I love I love it. I love it not like most crossovers don't do this but the tailgate glass open separately from the tailgate so you can lift the whole thing at once or you can just like pop the glass open and put stuff inside which I actually think is kind of cool like which Sam Abuelsamid 14:09 board out the back Nicole Wakelin 14:10 yeah it doesn't your stuff hanging on the back of the car I just like it for if you just want to toss something in you don't have to like okay, it's a small thing you need to put it in the back and yeah, instead of waiting the whole thing to go up you put the thing in, it's still going up now you have to wait to take the whole thing down. It's just like fuck the glass put it in shut the glass. So driving it is a lot like driving like a crossover. It's it doesn't feel like an off road vehicle like the Bronco feels like you're going off road the Bronco sport feels like you're going to the office. And I guess that's a good thing because not everybody wants to have that really harsh off road kind of drive to it. It has really cute interior I was the sport had the Outer Banks edition. So it has its own little look to it. But it has it has still has it sort of rugged interior that it's attractive and it's nicely done. But it feels like it could stand up to a little wear and tear. It's not overly fancy pants. I enjoyed driving this it was a switch off or like I said, having been in the actual Bronco that we went off road near our house the weekend before to getting into the Bronco sport so it was very direct like a weekend one a week and the other kind of comparison. And I liked the Bronco sport I think it's you know for someone who really likes the Bronco name too. I mean there's something to that name people loved the Bronco right? When it was coming back it was like Bronco, Bronco, Bronco Broncos back, but maybe you don't need all that. Maybe you don't need quite that much over the top capability. You can still do a heck of a lot in this it still has, you know, it's still four wheel drive. It does Bronco stuff, but it just doesn't have quite the ruggedness and I think it's way way make way more well mannered on the road. If you have to drive a lot on the highway. You want to get yourself a Bronco sport unless you're off highway plans are like crazy out of control because it's just so nice to drive on the highway. It's it's, it's quieter, it handles better. It's just smoother. So it's, I think it's a good conference. It's what most people actually need. Most people don't really need a Bronco even if they do a little light off roading. But probably everyone can get a little something out of the fact that they have a Bronco sports. I like the Bronco sport, Sam Abuelsamid 16:06 and it uses a lot fewer $5 gallons of gas. Nicole Wakelin 16:10 It does use a lot fewer $5 Roberto Baldwin 16:11 A gallon you fancy guys, Nicole Wakelin 16:14 what are you up to this week? We just crossed five and we're kind of holding right over five. Roberto Baldwin 16:18 Like high sixes right now. Are you really mid mid to high Sam Abuelsamid 16:22 sixes are 529 for regular here. Roberto Baldwin 16:25 I paid 631 about to drive a U haul. Oh God 631 A gallon. And I was like oh, that's the cheapest one I could find. Nicole Wakelin 16:35 That's so we know we're not paying that much. But And what you also you won't pay as much for this the bass Bronco sport is 2565 The one I had there's four four trims, I think four altogether. The one that I had, which is the Outer Banks is 34. Two. So it's still a relatively affordable vehicle you're not you're not going to go broke trying to put this Bronco in your driveway. Sam Abuelsamid 17:02 So that's another I mean, you can find one at sticker. Well, Nicole Wakelin 17:05 you know don't get bogged down in the reality of our terrible world today, Sam but yes, if you were to find when it's sticker but even so if you were to find a Bronco there, you know you same thing regular Bronco is gonna cost more Bronco sports gonna cost more, everything's gonna cost more. Sam Abuelsamid 17:22 But you know, I think Ford did a really good job with the Bronco sport, if you can't take off the doors and the roof and everything like you can write Bronco. But, you know, they did a lot of thoughtful stuff, you know, for people that are going to use this for, you know, not not necessarily, you know, going down the Rubicon Trail, but you know, going down a trail to their cabin or, you know, going places, you know, where they're going to do stuff, you know, with a kayak or paddleboard or their mountain bikes. And, you know, like one of one of the cool details is in the design, you know, it's got that step roof design, and they explained the reason why they did that step roof is to give enough clearance so that you can store two with the back seats folded down, you can store two bikes inside and they have an available accessory bike rack that goes inside. Take the wheels, take the front wheels often and stick them inside and you can leave them locked up in there so they're not hanging up the backward. They're gonna get stolen, right? Nicole Wakelin 18:24 Yeah, it's a good I like that. It's a good choice for most people. Because, I mean, I know offerding is huge, and people like to do it, but even most people do. Most of the people who are furloughed aren't doing this hardcore craziness. You need a little bit of ruggedness to do your outdoorsy things for your mountain bikes for your stuff, if you're going, you know kayaking, or if you're going, you know for a hike or if you're going camping, that does not require a Ford Bronco to get to that level of outdoor accessibility. You can do that in something that's still rugged, but doesn't have the negatives that come along with that and the Broncos sport. Sam Abuelsamid 18:57 Excellent. Yeah. All right. I had two electric pickup trucks. So 2022 is apparently the year of the electric pickup truck. They finally arrived. And neither of them shockingly, neither of them were Lordstown insurances, so, oh, no, no, what I did wrong. Wow. That's so weird. It's amazing. Sam Abuelsamid 19:22 But no, I had I had the F 150. Lightning and the rivian r1. T, at the same time, at least for a few days. So they overlapped. And, you know, both both of the, you know, the r1 T, they sort of started deliveries last fall. They started production in September of last year. But really, I think most of the first 1000 1500 of them, went to ravine employees. It didn't really go to outside customers very much or maybe a handful did and they're finally starting to deliver more of them to customers now. And then, you know, Ford, in late May started delivering the lightnings to customers as well. They had a couple of 100 deliveries in in May. And I suspect when we see the June numbers, you know, that will probably jump to at least a couple of 1000 if not more than that. So, these two trucks, you know, it's funny that, you know, they're both four door crew cab pickup trucks that, you know, kind of are shaped like, what you expect a pickup truck to be shaped like, unlike a certain other stainless steel thing that doesn't truly exist. Roberto Baldwin 20:36 And one, Unknown Speaker 20:38 yeah, well, there's, there's two, Roberto Baldwin 20:41 I think there's at least two, maybe there's possibly four. But could I mean, the other two might not run, but there's possibly Nicole Wakelin 20:47 four. I would think there's more details, right? Anyway, Sam Abuelsamid 20:49 these are shaped like pickup trucks, you know, so you've got the front box, you know, where the, traditionally the engine would sit, you've got the cab where the driver and passenger sit, and a bed in the back. So it looks like a truck. But they are aimed at very different customers. They're, they're not they're not really direct competitors for each other. The F 150 is a classic, full size American pickup truck. You know, it's clearly very clearly designed to appeal to people who buy F 150s and Silverados and rams and tundras and and the occasional Titan there while there will undoubtedly be people that are new to trucks, you know, that might have previously considered some other electric brand. You know, I think most of the people are going to be interested in this are people who would otherwise buy a gas or maybe a diesel engine pickup truck. The rivian On the other hand, is smaller, it's a it's a midsize truck, it's 16 inches shorter than the F 150. And the height even though the The rivian has a four wheel air spring suspension that can lift it up and off road mode. So you have 15 inches of ground clearance. Even an off road mode it's 78.3 inches tall, whereas the cab of the lightning which doesn't go up and down doesn't have air springs is 78.9 inches so it's shorter even an off road mode and in normal driving mode and sport mode. It's only 73 inches tall so it's five, almost six inches shorter than the than the lightning lower than the lightning and it's narrower. It's the rivian is almost exactly almost exactly the same dimensions as a Jeep Gladiator. And I think the gladiator is really the you know, probably the most direct competitive set to the the r1 T that's you know the same customer that's going to be interested in a gladiator is I think the the one that's going to be interested in the rivian and then in the case of the r1 SC SUV that's going to be targeted at the likes of Grand Cherokee, maybe Range Rover Discovery, something like that. You know real off road capability but also more premium feeling and you know it's a it's a higher end customer you know lifestyle customer as opposed to the more utilitarian customer typical of an F 150. But both have almost the same size battery the Ford has 131 kilowatt hours 135 in the rivian they have similar range. The one that I drove was a launch edition. So that's a quad motor all wheel drive. With the what rivian calls their large pack, that's the 135 That's actually their middle, their middle mid sized pack. That one is rated at 314 miles of range. The F 150 with the extended range battery is 320 miles if you get the XL T or the Lariat with the with the 20 inch wheels. The Platinum that I drove is with 22 inch wheels is 300 miles of range. Sam Abuelsamid 24:12 In my time driving the two of them, both of them got almost exactly the same efficiency but 2.1 miles per kilowatt hour. The rivian is quicker. It's 835 horsepower and little over 900 foot pounds of torque from its four motors one driving each wheel. The F 150s only got two motors 580 horsepower and 775 foot pounds of torque. Both are ridiculously quick for a pickup truck. You know the the rivian in particular is you know almost almost down to three seconds for the for zero 60 And just over four seconds for the F 150. Both more than quick enough for anything you're ever going to want to do. The roof In has significantly smaller bed. Sam Abuelsamid 25:04 It's shorter it's only four and a half foot long bed versus a five and a half foot long bed and the and the Ford and the Fords bed is also wider than than the reviens bed and the front trunk is also smaller in the rivian but the rivian has the added storage of that gear tunnel that goes underneath the one they sent me did not come with the camp kitchen unfortunately so I didn't get to test that Roberto Baldwin 25:31 kitchen is it's $5,000 Go by election in your truck. Unknown Speaker 25:36 Oh no Sam Abuelsamid 25:41 that's what I should have done is just pull up my my coleman propane Roberto Baldwin 25:47 and you can stand on those little doors that open Yeah, you can stand I stood on a break. you survey the land. Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 25:56 The the f1 that both of them while the F 150 comes standard with a full size spare tire and it's the spare and the F 150s. In the traditional place you would find it and a pickup truck which is hanging under the back end of the bed so you stick your tire iron in there and crank it down if you need to use the spare the rivian Spare there's a well underneath the bed floor not dissimilar to kind of the rear trunk that they have in the in the honda ridgeline but shaped differently so it accommodates a spare in there. The spare is optional on the rivian It's like an $875 option. But you know if you are actually going to use this as an off road vehicle, you absolutely want to get to spare you don't want to go off roading without a spare Roberto Baldwin 26:42 spare tire. And we blew a tire in the Hummer EV truck drive. Sam Abuelsamid 26:48 Oh yeah, yeah, remember? Roberto Baldwin 26:50 Yeah, the left hierarchy defeated, defeated. Sam Abuelsamid 26:53 So So unlike the Hummer, you know, the spare is, you know, concealed it's out of the way it's not consuming the space of your, of your bed like the like the Hummer does. But the you know, and this is one of the big difference. Another one of the big differences between these two trucks, the the rivian with its air spring suspension, when you put it in an off road mode, it lifts up and gives you up to 15 inches of ground clearance. Whereas there's there's no air spring suspension. The ground clearance on the lightning is only 8.9 inches, which is fine for what most people are going to truck for. You know the overhangs are a little longer. So the approach and departure angles and the breakover angle on the Ford are not as good as the lightning or as the as the rivian. So if if what you want to do is go off roading. The rivian is your better choice. I mean serious off roading. If what you want to do is use it for truck stuff. The rivian will do most of the truck stuff that most people want to do. But the four may be a better choice for you. And especially if you're gonna use it for work, the probably a better option for you. Roberto Baldwin 28:05 The rivian r1 t is what the honda ridgeline should have been as an EB that's Yeah, absolutely. I was driving around I was like, Oh, this is what Honda should have built. Yeah. But they didn't Sam Abuelsamid 28:14 want and one other thing that was a little disappointing with the rivian. And the for the what is what would normally be the grill on the f150 is attached to the hood. So when you open the hood, it goes up and you have you know, a relatively low, you know, comparatively low liftover I mean, it's not low compared to Roberto Baldwin 28:34 jump at you throw it over the grill and you got to get it up to the bumper, Sam Abuelsamid 28:38 you can put you can put stuff in there a lot easier, you don't have to lift it up over the top to drop it into the front trunk as you would with the rivian because the rivian the front fishes is static it stays stays where it is. So that that can be a little bit more annoying. But the rivian does also have a drain plug in the bottom just like the F 150 does. Sam Abuelsamid 29:02 The interiors F 150 The lightning interior. If you've been in any modern f150 You will aside from the 15 and a half inch screen, you will be immediately familiar with it everything's in the same place the on off switch, you know the start stop button. All the other controls are exactly where they are and any current generation F 150 or any previous generation F 150. Except you have the bigger screen the light, the rivian has gone more in the direction of Tesla with minimalist there's no buttons, no switches, except for the the two stocks on the steering column. And then the the roller and rocker switches on the steering wheel spokes, which are multifunction, which what they do depends on what mode you're in, which I frankly find a little annoying because you're never quite sure exactly what they're going to do. Nicole Wakelin 29:58 I'm with you that always messes We have been like, they're not leaving now. Roberto Baldwin 30:01 Yeah. They don't like the Jaguar or the JLR is like it, like in the Land Rover, Sam Abuelsamid 30:08 it would change to a different thing or show you a different icon. Yeah, show you different archive doesn't do that in the review. Yeah. So there's no labeling in the rivian. The screen, the big, the big center screen is really, it's nice, it's bright, easy to read. Sam Abuelsamid 30:23 It was a little, the interface was a little wonky, sometimes most of the time, it was fine. But every once in a while it would lag, especially when you look switched to navigation mode. And it's loading up the maps. That was the probably the biggest issue I had there. But it does have the another display in front of the driver for instruments using the driver plus ATS system. The rivian has 11 cameras on the outside plus five radars, same number of radars as the Ford. But it's got 11 more cameras on the outside. But it doesn't currently support hands free driving mode. And even with the hands on mode, I could drive using that on the highway, I could feel it wandering more within the lane, it doesn't do his job staying in the center of the lane as the Ford did. And even the Ford frankly, doesn't do it quite as well as GM does. But the Ford, the Ford, you can do hands free works mostly stays pretty close to the center of the lane, the rivian definitely felt like it was wandering a lot more and sometimes on some curves, you know, would start to drift out of the curve. And so you'd have to crank in a little more steering. So reviens definitely got more work to do on their their eight s stuff. The rivian is not quite as quiet highway driving, as the Ford, the Ford Ford was amazingly quiet for an f1 50. Very little wind noise, very little road noise coming through. On the on the rivian You've got all terrain tires, so those are obviously going to be louder. So there was more more noise coming through. And Sam Abuelsamid 32:07 what else and overall, they're both both fantastic trucks, you know, to for their own purposes. Pricing, and the Ford starts at $40,000 for the standard range version, but they're all four wheel drive, they're all dual motor. So the standard range pro starts at 40 grand, the the the platinum that I was driving was like 93 and change including delivery you know, and that's loaded that's got all the all the stuff you're ever going to want on there. And apparently, according to customer reports and confirmed by Ford, if you if you buy a lightning you get they include a CCS to Tesla adapter on there. So if you spot some spot, a Tesla driver that's out of juice, you can stop off and give them a hand. I actually did plug in the rivian into the oh my gosh, I Nicole Wakelin 33:09 thought you're gonna say you actually charged up a Tesla. I was like what I did Sam Abuelsamid 33:12 not find the Tesla to charge. But I did use did use the rivian and charged it up, you know just to see yes, it doesn't work. I didn't have the 240 volt outlet that's in the Ford is not the standard. It's not a NEMA 1450 which you just plug it in, it's just got the straight slots, it's a different one that they use on a lot of high power tools where you put it you have to turn plug it in and then turn it to lock and I didn't have the right adapter for that to charge the rivian at 240 volts. So I was just charging it from one of the 120 volt outlets but it was cranking along at about 1.5 1.6 kilowatts so that you know that worked out well. So I was daisy chained from my 9.6 kilowatt charger plugged into the the board which was then plugged in using the rivian power cable charged and plugged into that I tried the DC fast charge with both of them. The Ford rep 250 kilowatts, I didn't do a full charge on that. But I just wanted to see what kind of speed I could get out of it plugged into a 350 kilowatt charger. It charged at 150 kilowatts actually slightly over closer to 160. Unfortunately, when I went back with the rivian The 350 kilowatt chargers near me were both out of order. So I had to plug a chart plug into a one 150 And it would charge at about 144 and the but on a 350 kilowatt charger. The rivian should be able to charge at least part of the way up to 200 kilowatts, but overall they're going to be pretty similar the rivian might charge a little bit faster. The roof In again with its extra ground clearance and its off road capability can Ford through up to 42, almost 43 inches of water. The Ford has about 24 inches of water we drove we drove the the lightning, you know, on an off road trail during the launch program. It's not not a really hardcore trail, but it was fairly fairly capable. You know, if you're going to do that you probably want to get an XL T or Lariat, not the Platinum, you know, so get the 20 inch wheels and you know, the tires on there are going to be a little more capable off road than the you know, the really strictly on road tires on the platinum. And for you don't want to scratch up your your $90,000 Platinum anyway. What else? I think that's most of it later, when we get to the q&a, we got a bunch of questions that people submitted on Twitter. And I'll answer some of those. But Sam Abuelsamid 35:58 oh, the pricing. The other thing, the rivian pricing, when the launch editions of the r1 T were sold, it had a $73,000 price tag. Since then, about a month and a half ago rivian realize that they were there parts were costing them way more than they anticipated. They raised the price on the r1 T and the r1 s by about $12,000. So now the launch editions are sold out to gone. Speaking of which I've actually seen three of them in the past week on the road here around around the Detroit area. The adventure which is the the regular one now starts at $73,000. But that's no longer with the Ford Motor configuration and the large pack. That's what the dual motor and the standard range battery pack which is only 260 miles of range. If you want the the large battery, that's going to cost you an extra 16 or an extra $6,000. If you want the max battery pack, which isn't yet available that's coming later this year. For 400 mile ranch that's give me an extra 16 grand Sam Abuelsamid 37:10 the reinforced underbody shields another two grand the front bumper tow hooks are another two grand he's Sam Abuelsamid 37:18 the the the Ford Motor. Don't see what the pricing on I think the Ford Motor. If you want to go the dual motors, only a mere 600 horsepower. The Ford Motor I think is another another six grand on top of that to get the 800 horsepower. And then the Explorer, which is the base version, also dual motor standard range starts at 67 Five. So that that is the pricing and that's the rivian versus the lightning. Roberto Baldwin 37:54 That doesn't die. Alright, it's pretty enlightening. Nicole Wakelin 38:01 That's it. That's it the room versus lightning. Sam Abuelsamid 38:03 Yeah. More more in the q&a later. All right. So the coal. Yeah, you had a chance recently to drive yet another Bronco? Yeah. Nicole Wakelin 38:13 And the funny thing is, I'm driving when tomorrow too. So really, it's just it's all Bronco all the time until the end of time. Hyundai's now in the past. We're now about the Ford Bronco. So this one though, where I went from the Bronco, regular Bronco down to the Bronco sport I'm now going up in the other direction pass the regular Bronco to the Bronco Raptor. So the Bronco Raptor, Raptor, like that means fast, powerful performance, go racing through the desert like a maniac. And they did that to the Bronco and it's great. It's great. I loved it. So they had us out in Palm Springs where it was roughly 112 degrees and I felt like my face was gonna melt off it was so hot, and they took us out into the desert and they gave us a chance to really like sometimes he's offered or programs don't really give you much of a taste of off roading. This one we had a very brief on road section when we first arrived on day one we went immediately out took it on a twisting road you know up you know through some Ken any kind of stuff up high and then down back down and then on some highlight just actual highway and cars like this where they're big and beefy and off roadie sometimes they're just miserable to drive on roads like that, especially where there's these sort of sweeping turns because they feel very rolly and those offered tires do not like to be driven that way on the pavement. This was incredibly nice and comfortable and easy to drive on those roads. So I was very impressed with its on roading, which really isn't what you're buying the Bronco raptor for but at some point you are gonna have to come off the dirt and go to work. When you do you'll still be able to drive this and you won't be miserable driving this for a long stretch on the highway. Day two was entirely about taking this into that desert that 112 degree Why do people live their desert? So this has a three liter V six with 418 horsepower 440 pound feet of torque, it's got a 10 speed automatic transmission. Just think about those numbers for a second. It's powerful. It's not like it's a wimpy, Sam Abuelsamid 40:10 powerful as the rivian. Nicole Wakelin 40:11 I know. But yes, it is only hit but I think that this could kick the ravines butt off road just gonna say that I think that this will go further faster, harder, stronger than the review. And I it's I feel like you could attempt to beat the EverLiving bleep out of this thing. And it's like, Give me something better give it your best shot. You know, it's just really edit starts at $68,500. So yes, pricey. Outrageous, not really for Caribbean. Exactly right. And it's and this is like a serious off road vehicle that you're getting unbelievable capability with this. It can Ford 37 inches of water, it has 13.1 inches at a minimum of ground clearance. Just as a comparison, the regular four door Bronco has 8.3 inches. So it's a it's a big difference between from Bronco to Bronco Raptor, the tires, 37 inch tires that are just, they're gigantic. They're huge. And it's it helps improve the approach and departure angles. So again, if you're that hardcore person in your heart, Crawford, er, that's exactly what you want. It still has that goat modes that what is it goes over any type of terrain. I think I got that right. Knee train, which has like seven different drive modes, there's a for hire for low, it has that trail turn Assist, which I think is just a really cool feature that Ford has, where it's, it lets you it feels like you're just pivoting on your like say you have a really tight turn and you don't want to just turn and go around it you almost need to pivot this kind of let you do that. It's kind of like you're buckling. It lets you pivot around. Now granted, if you're like in the dirt in the muck and rocks, you're pivoting but you're sliding and slipping a little you know, it's not like this perfect little pivot. But it does let you pivot around things. It's I feel like it's a feature very, very, very few people will use even hardcore off road people because it's kind of like oh shouldn't have been here I've gotten myself into something that I cannot get out of Wait, trail turn assists. So for those moments when you really get in over your head. This will save you so it's so those are the sort of the details on it, driving it. So we took it it was an all day drive. We were up where the sun was not entirely up yet. They took us off out to the desert. They had us put on what look like like military like combat helmets. I'm still at a loss. I don't know if you've seen the pictures. They weren't right how much you put on a racetrack they were like little half helmets you always see like our military guys wearing and they were even like the army, brownish, desert greenish kind of thing. That's what we had to wear. We're not even driving at speed. We're just like driving I'm like this is this is the strangest thing like Where exactly are you taking us for that? I need this helmet like what are you doing to me? So we were those em, this was like a lead follow thing where they had us driving through terrain that genuinely was challenging. There were it wasn't a high speed portion. It was more like a handling going through softer, dirts almost kind of silty sand in some places. packed dirt, loose rocks, and it's Johnson valley where the rocks are all trying to kill you like they're all shaped with little pointy pointy bits. Nothing's round Sam Abuelsamid 43:17 like the moon. Yeah, Nicole Wakelin 43:18 it's like the moon only I don't need the suit. Yeah, I don't need this suit with a Sam Abuelsamid 43:22 backpack. And so it wasn't in a simulator. Nicole Wakelin 43:25 It wasn't a simulator, it was actually said I gone down into the crater and not been able to handle it, it would have gone really poorly for me. But there were no craters. So I got off easy. So we did this drive, there were some spots where we required spotters, we had to kind of slow down because either it wasn't necessarily narrow. But it was just the way that the rocks are placed. You've got to make sure your tires on this rock and the other tires on that rock and you're turning sharply here and turning back. So they had spotters with the weirdest spotting and how normally guys, they they're pointing at a spot and you kind of get their hands over their head and they're tilting their hands like this left right motion really wildly so you can see him these guys have a look like a paint stick with like neon orange paint, and they're waving the little paint stick at you. I don't I think I want hands and like the paint stick I was like I don't want you stop waving which way you want me to go just point in that direction solidly and I'll go that way. So they had some some tight spots to get through in some spots where it genuinely was even with them spotting and people doing exactly what they're supposed to do. You know a rock pivots ever so slightly under your wheels, suddenly your cars moved an inch. Now you have to go backwards because now that inch is what you needed to get around those rocks. So there are a few moments where people had to you know, go back just a little bit and go back forward. So we did that on one section of a course that was really good. And it handled it did everything you would expect a Bronco to do there was you had a sense of the only thing that's going to screw this up is me and my skills are going to not live up to what this car can actually do. So takes you through everything. We get through this sort of lead follow section of things and then we have a couple of other little things that we can do. One of them is we were crawling over rocks and I guess we were where the king of the hammers is And there's just rocks you guys it doesn't look like any vehicle should be there just rocks it's the kind of thing you will come across and go Well now we turn back how do we go in the Ford folks are like up so we crawl through these rocks and this was definitely this wasn't so much a lead follow there were only a few vehicles because I think they took off want to say like they took something off like the bumper or something like they they can deny the bumper caps you can sort of take off to make your bumpers little I think they remove those there's very, there was no like real vehicle modifications just like don't break stuff modifications kind of thing. Like Like, appearance stuff. So they sent us up this and it was it was serious. Like you were literally barely moving. As you're crawling up these rocks. There was no portion of this section where you were not watching you're watching guy a when guy a was done pointing, he's like, there's your next guy start watching him. There was never a moment where you weren't following Roberto Baldwin 45:54 selection. Yeah, never. Nicole Wakelin 45:55 There's no chillaxing You were always finally following a man with a paint stick with a bright orange paint on the end of it, you were always following one of those guys. And it was it was intense. But really cool. Because you truly see like, Okay, I could not have done it without my own. On my own. I definitely needed a spotter. I think 99% of us would need a spotter to get through that. But it did it it didn't it never, you always again had a sense this, this vehicle can totally do this. Without a shadow of a doubt this vehicle can do this, it's going to come down to me giving it the right amount of throttle giving it the steering in the right direction and following what the spotters are saying to me. So really not a surprise, but just like yep, it does exactly what a Bronco should do. Then they took us to the more what I think of you kind of want to get a rafter for you want to drive fast, or drive fast, fast, fast in the sand Fast, fast fast. And we did that they took us on a lap. That was like the first they took us on a like a you know, just very slow like so slow is like we're never gonna get through this first lap. And it just to kind of show us where they had the course mocked out marked out in a couple of spots where they had little signs kind of like a slow down there was like a little wash or a dip coming into like, you know, we appreciate you're going fast. But y'all have different skills here and there's a little dip and if you're going too fast, you are going to you're going to do some damage to yourself not so much the truck or the the bronco. So they let us do that once following them. And then we did it once. And they had a really large gap between us. So it was truly the speed that you can take it now they didn't want us going, you know, 9 million miles an hour because again, everybody doesn't have that skill level. And they don't we're not we're not all professional racecar drivers here, but you could take it pretty fast. And it was fun. And even in the spots where there was most of it was like sort of it was either packed sand or they're just like sort of softer sand. But there are a couple spots where that kind of silty so you really that's something where your tiles just go right into that stuff. It went through no problem even hitting some of the spots where it was a little bit more. Not so much a jump but you're getting it was a little bit more like a something in the road that would really cause your wheels to all sort of come up at once. It handled beautifully. Like you never had a sense Roberto Baldwin 48:04 that you lost all the drive it on the mood is what you're telling us you could drive it really for Nicole Wakelin 48:07 put this on the moon. I'd volunteer for that mission who wants to go to the moon and drive a raptor with me. So it was Sam Abuelsamid 48:15 tough to get rid of the pneumatic tires? Roberto Baldwin 48:17 Yeah, yeah, you read a lot of stuff actually. Still sounds like fun. Nicole Wakelin 48:20 You guys in your details, you ruin everything. So we did this really fast Lab life. Then we did a section where they had it was a sort of like, think like a motocross autocross thing where you had a section where they just like florid and then hit the brakes and come to a stop to see how well it stopped when it was just like going flat out. You had one that was just kind of like a slalom through cones that were relatively tight to see how it would handle that. And then that was more one was more sweeping turns, again that you were following. So you could get a sense of sort of three different situations that you might encounter when you're driving off road. And how does it handle really well. In fact, the stopping not only is the stopping distance better than you would think on dirt where your stopping distance isn't as great because you can slide a little bit more, but also just in terms of how heavy you know, it's not a light on its feet vehicle and you jam the brakes on it doesn't nosedive as much as you would expect. Sometimes you hit the brakes and like you literally feel like your whole body goes forward, you see the hood go down, like I mean, you do get a sense of that you're slamming on the brakes, but it was much more controlled than you would think and then going through little swarms and everything. It was it was wonderful and it was hot and dusty and I've never felt so bad for the people outside because we were wave one and they didn't I think they moved where they were standing for wave two because where they told us like, okay, Florida and everybody you know dust goes there right there. And I'm like really cuz you guys he's like, don't worry about it. We're gonna look like the desert by the end of the day. And seriously, I feel like you could have touched their faces and just like wipe sand off of them. They guys were so Sandy. So that was that was her drive and they put us So, for that part of things, they put us, you know, in a real helmet like the helmet, you're wearing race talk with a HANS device to make sure that we weren't gonna, you know, snap necks or hurt anything if you know if he came down too hard and there was at the high speed thing, there was one little spot at the end, they had you stop, they waited and then you could get it up to about I think it was about 65, maybe 70 miles an hour. And when you hit that speed at the right spot, you got some error, and you came down so you genuinely got all four wheels off the ground, came back down again and it did exactly what you want a vehicle like that to do. You know, you've got all four wheels off, and you feel it come back down, but you don't have that Dukes of Hazzard like, oh, good God, and then come down and feel like everything in the entire car. Right? It felt like it was like your four wheels are in the air and yeah, so that was also impressive, because if you're driving fast in the desert, you aren't occasion gonna do that. So Bronco Raptor. ridiculously fun. Has this unbelievably beefy look to it. Just this huge behemoth of a vehicle. I don't much like, like the F 150 Raptor. I don't know who needs this. But I understand every human on the planet wanting Roberto Baldwin 51:05 like the Volvo Raptors the Bronco raptors are the one that deserves to be a raptor. Nicole Wakelin 51:09 Why is that? Why does the Bronco deserve it? And f150 doesn't Roberto Baldwin 51:12 make the F 150 Someone's you're less likely to actually do anything the people the f150 wrapped are just driving up and down the freeway near my house too quickly. The Bronco raptor feels like that's an off road like Monster. You know what? Let's make it crazy. There you go. Yeah, you have like, we have a purpose built off road monster. You're like, Yeah, let's go crazy. 151 50 At the very bottom of it is a really great truck for a contractor. Yeah. And they just keep adding things on to the you know, uh, yeah. So yeah, so Nicole Wakelin 51:42 that was the Bronco Raptor. I thought it was fantastic. I mean, if you if that's your thing else, and they have this one color paint because I'm always about how things look. It's weirdest name. It's called eruption green. I don't know. I don't know what that is like. It makes me think like I'm sorry. Well, it makes me think of the what's the movie with the girl's head spins around. Roberto Baldwin 52:01 exorcist exorcist. That's it. Nicole Wakelin 52:03 And like the green thing like I'm like eruption green. I don't what is an eruption? I don't get it. So but hey guys, horrible name. unbelievably beautiful color. Is a great color. It's a really great color. So love the color hate the name. Sam Abuelsamid 52:20 I actually saw raptor Proko raptor on 94 The other day coming back from Detroit. Oh, you did? Unfortunately. It wasn't an eruption green. It was. It was area 51 which is the sort of bluish gray. Okay. Yeah. slight tint to green there. Yes. The alien color. But, yeah, I mean, it's this thing. It's 10 inches wider than a standard Bronco. It's huge. Amazing. Nicole Wakelin 52:47 The flowers are any nice. So there was one guy he's like, Oh, look at that. And I thought he was complaining about the tires. Like when he sent me the image on like He clipped one of my images and went really enclosed and like, the tires are low because they air it out. That's not actually the air down. That's not a mistake. He's like, no, no, no, it's a fender flares. Like, come on. It's supposed to look that way. What do you want something delicate that looks like a Mercedes. It's a bronco. Raftaar it's supposed to look that Sam Abuelsamid 53:09 way. If you want if you want that delicate look. Go buy a G Wagen Nicole Wakelin 53:13 Yeah, there you go. Go buy a G Wagen guy on Twitter Sam Abuelsamid 53:19 but no, no two door raptor though, right? Nicole Wakelin 53:21 No, it is it's a four door only it is exclusively a four door Yeah. So but I after having a two door Bronco i I can't like the regular Bronco. I am a four door fan in this particular vehicle. I feel like the chiller was really hard to get in and out of the back and if you're taking this in the desert and racing you're that hardcore you're gonna have stuff and I feel like being able to access access stuff more easily by just opening your back doors is going to be so much easier than a two door variant Sam Abuelsamid 53:48 so I'm sure there will be some people that that really want the absolute minimum breakover height that will get a two door Bronco and get all the Raptor parts and yes their own two door Bronco. Nicole Wakelin 54:00 They will try and wrap your eyes it wrapped your eyes Yeah, somebody will and we'll see some picture of it and while looking and go that was stupid but that's also kind of amazing. Good on Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 54:12 All right. Let's see what else do we have here? Oh, Cadillacs. Elastic. Roberto Baldwin 54:21 Stick What a weird name. Were you Sam Abuelsamid 54:23 were you at the end day thing in 2020 Nicole? I designed the gym. Nicole Wakelin 54:29 Don't believe I did that. No, I'm gonna say no 2021 Time to Sam I think not. Okay. Roberto Baldwin 54:33 100 years ago, Sam Abuelsamid 54:34 they showed us you know, clay model of the of the Scholastic back then. And they're slowly starting to tease out stuff and you know, we're supposed to see it's I think it might be like mid July. They're supposed to show it in its entirety. So this is going to be Cadillacs new flagship electric sedan. And it's it's going to be stupid expensive. Like now I think something on the order of about $250,000 So it'd be the most expensive GM production vehicle ever. And they're all going to be hand built, custom built for for customers. And they're not even going to be building it in one of their regular assembly plants. They've set up a special facility at the GM Tech Center to build this which, which tells you that yeah, they're not actually planning on building very many of these, but they'll, they'll be special and they do show up. Roberto Baldwin 55:29 I think it's gonna look dope. The Cadillac people have been doing some really great stuff with sedans. So Nicole Wakelin 55:35 yeah, it's all a real picture we have is like a front fender. Sam Abuelsamid 55:39 There's a couple of other teaser images you know, just show around little details. Nicole Wakelin 55:44 I mean, it's a cool fender Roberto Baldwin 55:45 Yeah. There's a lug nut, here's a piece of stitching. Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 55:50 if you can, if you can visualize this in your mind you know, big four door sedan long hood even though there's no big engine under there I don't know if they'll actually have a front trunk or not. But then the back end the the C pillars very similar to the look on the lyric the the SUV, so the these kind of big pillar big wide pillars with the sort of concave cut out there you see on the lyric okay. You know on but you know obviously much lower you know on a service sedan profile it's it's a sharp looking vehicle it's gonna be very interesting to see the reaction to it when it arrives. And then of course, you know, the lyric will all three of us will be driving this coming weekend. Yeah. Roberto Baldwin 56:42 Oh, yeah. This week. Yeah, I should pack or something. Sam Abuelsamid 56:45 I'm flying out tomorrow morning. In fact, Nicole Wakelin 56:48 before I get to the Lyric, I have another Bronco drive, because well, you Sam Abuelsamid 56:52 know, oh, there's this one for the what is it? Everglades Everglades. Yeah, Nicole Wakelin 56:57 I can take it to swamp they reached out to me to get my shoe size for my waders. Oh, okay. It's not that I'm a little nervous or anything but okay, then. Roberto Baldwin 57:06 Like it that I'm sure I'm sure Florida and mid June at the end of June. No, it's Nicole Wakelin 57:12 never going to Detroit. We're going to we're going up to drum in the island in the up because Roberto Baldwin 57:18 it's swamp Everglades. Nevermind. Nicole Wakelin 57:20 It's so swampy and gross. But no alligators. That's my jury. Yes. My chances of being Sam Abuelsamid 57:27 your winner you will want the waiters for the leak to avoid the leeches. Nicole Wakelin 57:31 Oh, see? Um, don't freak me out. I hate you. I hate you. I quit now. People flip. Sam Abuelsamid 57:39 Hey, you pick this job? Nicole Wakelin 57:41 I know. I know. I said yes. I said I do it. Sam Abuelsamid 57:46 The leeches would be there whether I told you about Nicole Wakelin 57:51 anything now I'm gonna have those waders pulled up like as far as my body's possible to avoid touching anything. Sam Abuelsamid 58:01 Okay, anyway. This week, let's see, last June, almost a year ago, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration issued an order to all automakers and developers of automated driving systems to start submitting data about any crashes that happened while their systems are active. And this week, they finally released at least some of the first batch of data that they collected over the first 11 months of this, this program. And there was just shows like 390 Some crashes that occurred with with these vehicles with level two and above systems. Out of that 273 came from one company a bad bet you can't guess who it was. Saab? Yes, Roberto Baldwin 58:54 that was my guess God and Robbie. Oh, sob why? Sam Abuelsamid 58:59 Well, you know, they haven't done any updates since 2010. You know, so the software needs some I was it was Tesla, Sam Abuelsamid 59:09 you know, with with autopilot. One of the you know, I don't know if either of you took any time to actually look through the data. But that is a lot of a lot of information that they collected, you know, such as, you know, what system was on there. You know, where, where there was damage on the vehicle, and there were descriptions for the crashes, but for some reason that I think is bogus. Sam Abuelsamid 59:39 The NITSA allowed manufacturers to tag certain information as company business or confidential business information. And you know, some stuff that you know that they want to keep confidential like which version of software I'm fine with that that's not a big deal. But the The descriptions of the crashes, you know what actually happened? Most manufacturers put that stuff in there no problem at all. Tesla, all 273 crashes involving Tesla vehicles. It the descriptions were marked, were redacted. So we couldn't see what actually happened in any of these incidents. NITSA has the data, but they didn't release it to the public. Yeah. And I think that's BS, I think we should see, we should get to see that. Because, you know, strangely, if you're Roberto Baldwin 1:00:34 especially if you're training when you're when you're, when you release beta onto the public, the public should know like, what that beta is doing to the public roads? Absolutely. Sam Abuelsamid 1:00:44 And the second highest number of crashes, strangely enough, were from Honda, who really, I would argue, doesn't even have a level two system. Roberto Baldwin 1:00:54 You know, they have a level two system and a way that really, because in a way that you've just, you know, well, we can call it level two. Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 1:01:03 But but they don't even really market it as such, you know, like a level two system would be a system that where there's one common control system that is controlling steering, braking, and acceleration. So one set of software is doing that. Honda doesn't do that. A Honda has adaptive cruise control, and Lane Keeping Assist on their vehicles. But they're separate systems that they don't really coordinate with each other. Roberto Baldwin 1:01:28 And yeah, but the end of the day, that's still for the average person. I mean, when you're when you're when you when you when you try to drill down to like, well how the software is working, that doesn't matter to the average person. That's true. If it's five different pieces of software to write, it's still, you know, you stopped to say level two, because it does the thing that the SAE is level two says, Sam Abuelsamid 1:01:46 Yeah, at any rate, there were 90 crashes involving various Honda vehicles. However, I looked through, I read through the descriptions of all of them, none of them actually had anything to do with even because what NITSA was looking for was any crashes where the system was active, up to up to 30 seconds prior to impact. And thanks. So reading through the descriptions of all the Honda crashes, it was all car was struck by another vehicle that ran a stop sign. Oh, so Okay, so not not one of the Honda crashes was actually related to the fact that adaptive cruise control and Lane Keeping Assist was turned on. Roberto Baldwin 1:02:30 They were just happened to be on Yeah, there was while there was a collision, Nicole Wakelin 1:02:34 right wasn't something that really was the system's fault, okay. Roberto Baldwin 1:02:37 Like when all the way Mo's kept people kept back and running into the back of the waves that never had a big article. And it's like, the way Moe didn't do anything wrong. Going into the back of it like they did. Sam Abuelsamid 1:02:49 You know, the Waymo vehicle, the WeMo crashes, I think there was about I think it was close to 100, involving WeMo vehicles. And some of those were redacted. The ones that weren't redacted were the ones where, you know, vehicle ran into the back of the window, another vehicle ran out the window. So what I want to see is the ones that they redacted, because those are the those are probably the ones where, you know, Nicole Wakelin 1:03:16 interesting happened. Yeah, something worth going what went wrong here? Sam Abuelsamid 1:03:20 Yeah. So hopefully, in the future, we'll be getting more of that data. It's, I think this is an interesting first start, and I'm glad to see that they're finally collecting this data unless they're doing something. Yeah. And, you know, at least at least regulators, now we're getting some information about how these systems are actually working, or, in some cases not functioning. Yeah, there were also there were two crashes involving Cadillacs with supercruise. Both of those, again, not really the fault of the system one, see the the driver lift lifted up his leg for some reason to hit the steering wheel, and cause the system to disengage. And it ran sideways into the median. Nicole Wakelin 1:04:06 On the highway still totally like a driver error. Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 1:04:09 the driver error thing. And the other one was something something else where the driver, oh, it was a deer that was a deer on the road. And the driver slammed on the brakes, which disengaged the system, you know, and he hit hit the deer that ran out. And so the system had been active during 30 seconds prior to the impact with the dear accounts. Yeah, so yes, but that's no Yeah, no, no, no, no, no real accidents caused by supercruise itself. Really? Nicole Wakelin 1:04:40 I like supercruise. That's my favorite of the bunch. Yep. Sam Abuelsamid 1:04:44 All right. Sony and Honda announced this week that they've finalized their joint venture agreement. Roberto Baldwin 1:04:54 I'm just happy that Sony's doing something like press It's like the last two or three years within like what we're thinking about doing we're now we're going to investigate doing now we're going to think about investigate doing. It's like having a meeting to have a meeting about a thing they need to do. That's what Sony's like whole thing has been all the way up to this. So finally, finally, and then I think there was one like before this where Sony Honda Hey, we're thinking about doing the thing. Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 1:05:18 Well, they did it a memorandum of understanding that they were going to investigate. Yeah, now it's official. Roberto Baldwin 1:05:24 Now it's official, officially officially Nicole Wakelin 1:05:26 official, Roberto Baldwin 1:05:27 thank God. But uh, you know, we actually are doing something. But question is, Sam Abuelsamid 1:05:33 does Sony really need to get into the car business? Nicole Wakelin 1:05:36 Sure. They do Roberto Baldwin 1:05:38 not. If Samsung not see Samsung dclg. And there's like, oh, man, those are big electronics companies. We should be Sam Abuelsamid 1:05:45 their suppliers. You know, they supply stuff to the auto industry. They're not me. Roberto Baldwin 1:05:50 This is where Sony wants to jump in. This is their chance to get start somewhere. Yeah, started the company and made an awesome car that I won't sell in the United States. Sam Abuelsamid 1:06:01 So yeah, so the joint venture is supposed to start production of vehicles in 2025. We'll see. Roberto Baldwin 1:06:10 What's What year is it now? 2022? Yeah. Honda still has a steel with Sam Abuelsamid 1:06:15 GM. Yep. Those are coming in 24 Honda prologue and as yet to be named Acura. Electric crossover. Nicole Wakelin 1:06:25 Okay. Yeah, well, okay. Sure. Okay, if you say so what else? Roberto Baldwin 1:06:33 I just want just bring the Honda II over, just change the battery. The battery technology is better. You're probably gonna get like 150 out of it. Drop it in my front yard. I'll give you all the money I have. Nicole Wakelin 1:06:47 Wow, okay, there. Roberto Baldwin 1:06:49 Oh, that's not a lot. Okay. reminder to everyone listening. Should be cheap. Nicole Wakelin 1:06:57 It's not a large pile of money, people but Roberto Baldwin 1:07:02 I'm saving the ultra the I just found the ultra soft tissues that come with when I flew on delta A while back. I'm like, why should save these kids need blow my nose? So I'm not exactly swimming in cash. Nicole Wakelin 1:07:13 That pile of money not large. Sam Abuelsamid 1:07:16 Yeah, I'm sure you've heard the old line about how do you make a small fortune in racing, you start with a large fortune. I think the same thing is largely true being an auto journalist. Roberto Baldwin 1:07:24 Yes. How do you I warn my wife, that's all I'm saying. Like, I'm gonna be a writer. I'm not gonna make a lot of money. She's like, Yeah, that's fine. I'm like, okay. Sam Abuelsamid 1:07:34 All right. Well, speaking of which, let's, let's jump into our q&a. Let's see, Adam, Jay asked. You often talked about cars that you have for an entire week to test and about their fuel economy. So I was wondering who foots the bill for all that gas. I certainly hope Ford was footing the bill for the navigator Sam recently tested. Nicole Wakelin 1:07:53 Well, they arrived with a full tank of gas, you got that you get a full tank of gas in your drive. If you don't blow through the whole full tank of gas, then thanks, Ford for filling it up. If you do go through a full tank of gas, then you fill it up with however much gas you need. So that you does come full, but you're responsible for filling it up if you have a longer drive that requires additional Phillips. Sam Abuelsamid 1:08:14 Yeah, the general rule of thumb I think for for most people is and not everyone lives up to this. But the rule of thumb is, you know, give it back with at least half a tank of gas, right? Yeah, I Roberto Baldwin 1:08:25 don't I'm not gonna give someone here's the car back with nothing. No gas on it. Sam Abuelsamid 1:08:29 It's on empty gas stations just down the road over here. Good luck. You got enough fumes to get you there? Yeah, Roberto Baldwin 1:08:36 the same thing with EVs? Yeah, I always try to make sure they have like at least 100 miles of range, because I'm about 20 miles from the where they need to where they take the cars back. But if they're taking that vehicle to another place, that's further out or whatever, I want them. Yeah, give them like 100 miles of range, at least. Right? Before they pick up the car. Sam Abuelsamid 1:08:55 Yeah, I usually try to give it back, you know, with almost at least a full charge or close to it, you know, depending on how much time I have between when I last drove it, and when they're picking it up. And you know, the electricity is a lot cheaper. So, you know that oh, yeah, charging the car, like nothing. I can do that at home, I don't have to take it to the gas. Right. And for some stuff, like from my day job, you know, if I'm driving the car to go to a meeting or some event for my day job, then you know, in that case, you know, I'm I'm getting reimbursed by my employer for that fuel. So yeah, it's it's not a big deal to to put gas in their rag. Nicole Wakelin 1:09:36 I know whenever Robbie like he can just stop now. Roberto Baldwin 1:09:39 You just pay for it. Sam Abuelsamid 1:09:43 All right. But the rest of the questions we have are all related to the electric trucks. So I'll try and go through these relatively quickly. So Adam, Giorgio Cineaste please pull stuff with it and find places to charge. I want one of these soap Add but my fear is charging with a trailer attached. Also, what does the back seat look like with three adults? How's the spacing, spacing and comfort? To be honest, I've been waiting for a solid three year old family mover that has electric or a good PHE V to replace our van. Not interested in making a design statement in this truck is the closest thing in production right now. Well, I'll answer the second part of that first. Go buy a Chrysler Pacifica hybrid. Hybrid. Yeah, solid three row, a row. Lots of room not a design statement. not sexy, but lots of room. Yeah, 30 to 33 miles of electric range. And even then when you're running as a hybrid, it's still pretty fuel efficient. Nicole Wakelin 1:10:40 And her family really has all the family stuff tons room good price. minivans are the best family hauler it's a great if you're going to family you're just like repeat TV. There's your answer right there Pacifica Roberto Baldwin 1:10:49 I have my band is playing a show up over what the housing Independence Day weekend and we're taking our dogs plus we're taking the drum set and we're taking you know what I renting minivan. Minivan Sam Abuelsamid 1:11:04 adds to the backseat. The f150 is definitely roomier than the rivian. It's wider, it's longer, you can put three, three guys my size, you know, three broad shouldered adult males back there in the backseat, they'll have tons and tons of legroom tons of headroom and plenty of shoulder room, side by side in that back seat. The rivian for at least for two adults and or you know three slimmer people, because it is narrower. And you'll still have you won't have you know kind of limousine style legroom in the backseat, but it's still solid, you know, you'll have plenty of room for at least two and a half adults in the in the backseat of the rivian. Charging with a trailer is often a challenge. They're starting to do more, at least Electrify America is starting to do more charging locations that have pulled through charger setups rather than bait like just parking spots that you pull into and, and plug in. So you don't have to block other chargers. The unfortunately the ones like you're in, in northern part of Michigan, that have been to don't have that configuration yet. So you might end up having to block something or disconnect the trailer while you're charging the station I stopped at near Kalamazoo, Michigan when I went to Wisconsin a few weeks ago. Their setup is actually it's not officially pull through. But they're they're configured so you can also the one in Milwaukee, you could actually pull in there with the truck with the trailer hooked up, you will be blocking one of the other chargers for a while. But you can get through there without disconnecting your your trailer. So they're getting better at configuring charging charging locations like that. But it's still going to be a problem for a while. machi vlog asks, how's blue cruise? How quiet is on the highway and back roads? How does the rear suspension compare the ice version? The blue cruise you know talked about before but you know, it works fine. It's not as good as supercruise better than what's offered by rivian. It is amazingly quiet on the highway and backroads. Much more so than the rivian. And then the rear suspension, that independent rear suspension is way smoother than what you'll get on any other F 150. And because of the 5050 weight distribution, it doesn't have the tendency to bounce when you hit bumps. So it's it feels much more supple. And even though the rivian has air springs, the Ford was actually a smoother ride over rough pavement, which I found surprising. Clinton to satin or Catan I'm sorry, if I mispronounced that Nicole Wakelin 1:14:03 kiss Satan, I'm going to Satan. I don't know Clinton let us know rather how badly we're mangling your name. Sam Abuelsamid 1:14:09 Anyway, still confused about range in a blackout situation? If you're powering a house but have to go places can you extend the battery and extend the range with a generator, just looking at worst case scenarios with a big battery vehicle. So here's the deal. If you have the extended range battery, it's got 131 kilowatt hours of capacity in it. average American household normal use uses about 29 kilowatt hours a day. So three days you're going to use about 90 kilowatt hours. That's going to leave you close to 40 kilowatt hours. So you're gonna have about 30% of your battery left after three days, assuming you haven't done any throttling of your electrical load in your house. You know if you if you start turning stuff off in your house, so you're not using as much electricity. You can. Ford says you can go up to 10 days which is I think realistic You know, can you extend the range of the truck with a generator? Yeah, you can certainly do that. But if you got a generator, why not just plug that into your house? You know, I think what you'll probably want to do is, you know, run, you know, you can set an amount, a minimum state of charge that you want it to go down to, and the truck, so like, 30 40%, whatever, whatever level, you know, depending on how far you might need to go to get somewhere else to get, get powered, charge it back up. So, you know, if you can, if there's, you know, say a DC fast charger that's working, that's 20 miles away from you. You know, if you tell it to save 35 40% of your of your charge, you'll have more than enough to unplug from your house for an hour or so. Go, plug it in, charge it up, come back and then plug your house back into your truck and keep on going. That's kind of the way I'd go. Sean Aaron asks, I'd like to know how it goes off road. This highway tires Chin's boiler and running boards seem to really restrict what it can do. You drove it off road in Texas, Nicole, what do you think? Nicole Wakelin 1:16:18 I thought it was good offered. I we'd it wasn't a long course that we got to do. But we did get to do some off road driving. I think it's it's probably to do more than you expect. I feel like it's very much like the regular f150 Do you know what I mean? Like it does. Differences. Yeah, certs and Evie underneath all that. But it does all the f150 things you expect. So if you're taking a regular f150 Off Road, similarly equipped, you're going to find that it behaves similarly. And I think that's actually a really good thing, because you kind of don't want every Eevee to be like, Oh, this is totally different. Cuz Naevi No, you kind of want it to do what it did when it wasn't an Eevee in the case of a truck Very much so. And I feel like it was I had no issues with it off road, there was an either there was a sort of like we did a, you know, driving up and down hills and a little bit of rocky dust, you know, we weren't crawling over stuff like I did in a bronco. But like there was there was a good amount of if you were driving on some pretty rugged terrain, it could do it. And then there was a little high speed to a little high speed lap like tiny, you know, enough, you got up to speed when recording you were done. But that was fun. And it handled well. And that was like in the dirt. So I think that off road, I didn't have issues with it, I think you know, you're right, the running boards, if you're going to do some like crazy rock crawling and stuff, those aren't going to work out well. But for the majority of folks, and you can modify stuff, if you are going to, you know, want to do something a little bit more aggressive, then you might want to do some modifications to make it an aggressive off road vehicle that it is not, but it lives up to the expectation of what you would think and f150 could typically do if you're going to take it off Sam Abuelsamid 1:17:51 for it. Yeah, it's not going to compete with you know, a tremor or Raptor, right F 150. Right. But, you know, for any, you know, comparable to what you would get for you know, a similar trim level, like an XL T Lariat or, or a platinum, you know, it'll do what those can do. And it does have a locking rear diff. So that's, you know, that's good. Sam Abuelsamid 1:18:14 You know, the, you don't get the running boards on like the the XL T I think or Lariat so I mean, if that's what you want to do, you know, you might want to go with one of those, though, you know, the Platinum is really the the onroad truck. But, you know, the types of things that most people are going to use an f1 50 Off Road for like, you know, working on the farm, you know? Yeah, I mean, seriously, I mean, you know, going across the field on a farm, it'll handle that fine. That won't be a problem at all. Gupta Ajay asks, Can I buy it? Absolutely. All depends how much you want to spend. Yeah. Well, I mean, you can get it now if you want to pay the markups. If you're if you're patient, yes, you can you can buy it. Or you know, if you're willing to spend the money you can buy it. So there's that. Brian shields asks, cost to charge from full versus gas prices. So the F 150. The gas F 150s. You can get them with three different or actually four different gas tank sizes 2326 gallons or 36 gallons and the the hybrid comes with a 30 gallon tank for some reason. Sam Abuelsamid 1:19:31 And that current Michigan gas prices and this is regular not premium. You know that'll cost you anywhere from 123 to $190 to fill the tank and an F 150. Depending on what what tank size you've got the charging, charging it up doing a full charge from zero to 100% charging at home. Again, you know Michigan electricity prices are actually plus to the national average, but 12 cents a kilowatt hour, that cost you about 16 bucks. And if you're charging at an EAA station Sam Abuelsamid 1:20:11 without paying the four bucks a month for, for the for the plan plus, where you get the discount, so you're paying 43 cents a kilowatt hour $56. So it's, you know, even though you've got about let's see what the 36 gallon tank, you're gonna have about 700 miles of range 190 bucks, you know, with, you're going to have about 300 with the lightning $56, you know, so if you double that, to get the same range, still, you know, about 100 bucks that's going to cut, you know, at the most expensive DC fast charging is still going to cost you half as much for the same amount of driving range. So yeah, it's definitely going to be a lot cheaper. And the same thing. All the same things are true for the rivian because it gets roughly it's got roughly the same size battery, similar range. Coach Cabrera charging times, ride quality infotainment system seat comfort, thank you charging times DC fast charging 150 kilowatts, it'll go 10 to 80% in about 45 minutes. If you have the, the come the extended range trucks come bundled with the ATM charger, the charge station Pro, it'll charge that fully do a full charge, zero to 100 overnight and about a little over eight hours. Most of the time, you're not going to be doing a full charge. Ride quality, as I said, much better than the gas truck and better than the rivian infotainment system. If you'd like sink for, it's great, I'm fine with it works works well. You know, it's easy to use reasonably responsive seat comfort. The seats are comfortable on the platinum you get massaging seats. They're not quite as sophisticated as the massaging seats in the Navigator, but they'll do. And you know, the seats in typical truck fashion are a little wider and they feel a little flatter. So it's not sports car seats. The seats in the rivian are definitely a little narrower, give you a little more lateral support for that, that sporty driving. But, you know, no no complaints after many hours of driving both of these trucks hairy Tiffany JV or IV? Or is that the fourth or fourth? Probably the fourth? How intuitive is the software work? Can you charge? How long does charging ticket home just mentioned that it's the dash clean or cluttered? The rivian Dash is very clean, almost to a fault. As I mentioned. No, you could use a few more buttons and switches less clean, please. Yeah. But but the rivian. One thing I didn't mention even though the rivian is very minimalist, it does feel more much more premium than a typical Tesla really nice wood trim and other materials. It's vegan leather, but it looks it looks very premium. It looks like something that would be more of a competitor to a Range Rover than what you get with a Tesla. The software, I thought the I actually preferred the Ford software. The rivian software is pretty it's got nice graphics but not not as always as responsive. And you know, the touch targets are sometimes often smaller. So a little bit more challenging to use and to find what you're looking for. And then charging you know anywhere where there's a CCS charger, or a 1772 home charger. See, Alan Bayless which version pro platinum and standard battery size and rear wheel drive rear wheel. So there's no rear wheel drive for either these are all four wheel drive, they all come standard with all wheel drive, or four wheel drive. I had the platinum and did not drive the standard battery this time did drive it in Texas. What range are you seeing in real world environments? I didn't do a full you know two depleted range test but based on the the 2.1 miles per kilowatt hour I was getting it should actually probably do a little better than label which is about somewhere around 320 Miles 315 to 320 miles for the the lightning and similar for the for the rivian off road we already talked about you get to travel blue cruise. Yep, we talked about that too. ranek asks, tolling long range experience, including charging along the way. Talked about that previously. Nicole Wakelin 1:24:56 Reading the next one sorry Sam Abuelsamid 1:25:00 Have Bic will you make my payments? No. Roberto Baldwin 1:25:02 No. Very talked about. We're writers. Nicole Wakelin 1:25:05 Yeah, exactly. A very small pile of money, Kev, just to remember. Sam Abuelsamid 1:25:10 felonious Musk asks, how does it compare to driving Tesla's superior cybertruck? Roberto Baldwin 1:25:16 Because no one's driven it. Sam Abuelsamid 1:25:18 When, when, if and when it ever exists, will let you know. Nicole Wakelin 1:25:21 Yeah, well, that question, just stick it in the file system. And we'll go back to Sam Abuelsamid 1:25:25 that on the shelf, come back to in about three years. Yeah. J truist. Why can't we get an F 150 Lightning pro model with an extended battery? Actually, you can. You can't configure it through ford.com. And but they do offer it through Ford pro through the commercial sales division. So commercial customers can buy the lightning pro with the extended battery. And that one is probably your actually your best value. Because that's it's like 10 grand extra for the extended battery. So you're looking at $50,000 for lightning pro with the the extended range battery, and you get still get lots of stuff in there that you know, I think makes it a probably a really good value. But you'd have to go to a Ford pro dealer to get that and order it through them rather than through the standard commercial retail channels. From the vegetating, how's the front visibility, same as any other truck, you're up high, the hoods long, anybody standing in front of you, you're probably not going to see him. And this you know, I mean, this is this is an issue with any big truck or SUV. And this is really true for Roberto Baldwin 1:26:36 Bhosle trucks, though, at this point. Because SUVs still have some sort of design where there's a little bit of an angle, the trucks are just a flat. Sam Abuelsamid 1:26:44 If you're talking to a full side like a an expedition or a Tahoe, that Escalade I drove Nicole Wakelin 1:26:49 that was big, like an SUV, I think Roberto Baldwin 1:26:54 the lack of visibility still comes down to just its design decision. Sam Abuelsamid 1:26:59 But one thing I do like about the Ford pickups is the when you look at the side windows, they dip down in the front, near the mirrors, so you actually get better visibility. So you get lower BeltLine, from front. So if you're looking to the front quarters, you can see more in in close to you as you're maneuvering. And so it's actually a lot easier to maneuver with those Sam Abuelsamid 1:27:23 charging port USB charging ports. There's eight in the F 152 in the frunk and then six inside the cabin. And then I think there's only two or three, three in the rivian How's the handling like in urban city settings? It's a big truck. It's I mean, both of them are you know, even though the ribbon is smaller, it's still challenging to maneuver them in tight spaces. You know, if you're Nicole Wakelin 1:27:52 like me big truck. Sam Abuelsamid 1:27:54 Yeah, it's you know, it's no, it's no different. It behaves just like any other truck. Better yet. How do people look at you when they see it's electric and you don't have to pay for gas? More so with the rivian that people notice the rivian because its styling is different. The the F 150 Most people didn't even notice that it was a lightning. You know, because it looks so much like a standard F 150. For him, Missouri, Missouri. When is the Explore electric launching 2024 is what I've been told we'll probably see it sometime next year. Christian, can you lift it? I'm not quite as strong as I used to be when I was younger. So Nicole Wakelin 1:28:41 yes, five years ago, even like, yeah, totally, Sam Abuelsamid 1:28:43 Robbie can probably do it. But Nicole Wakelin 1:28:46 he's at the height. So he's got that leveraged. Yeah, Sam Abuelsamid 1:28:49 no, you at some, I'm assuming it's only a matter of time before somebody offers a lift kit. I would, I would be shocked if at the SEMA show this this fall, if we don't see some customized lightnings with lift kits and assorted other stuff. I was range affected when you use things like the AC or when you use the outlets in the bed for tools or other items. I think a lot of customers would appreciate a more real world range estimate, while the 2.1 miles per kilowatt hour I got with both of these was, you know, fairly warm weather or hot weather we had a day when it got up to like 96 degrees. So I was using the air conditioning. And that you know, so that was you know, I was getting equivalent of over EPA label efficiency with even with the AC on with the AC off. I think I was getting like 2.3 miles per kilowatt hour. So you're gonna get some degradation. Same thing when you're using the pro power system. It's going to consume some battery but depends on what you're using, what tools you're using, you get a map maximum of 9.6 kilowatts output there. So, you know, if you're using the full output of 9.6 kilowatts, you know, for an eight hour workday, you're looking at what eight times to 80 kilowatt hours that you might potentially consume, you're gonna have a hard time using all of that power. So, you know, that might be the equivalent of you know, a couple 100 miles of range. Love to see how long it takes to charge a Tesla enough to go another 50 miles or so. Roadside Assistance to another Evie is a great feature. Yeah, I think, you know, 9.6 kilowatts, you could or the 240 volt outlet is only 30 amps. Such as what 30 times 240 Nicole Wakelin 1:30:53 Okay, any other calculators? Sam Abuelsamid 1:30:57 kilowatts, 7.2 kilowatts, so, you're gonna be probably going to be able to put about 50 miles on you know, and maybe a little over an hour with, with that from from the lightning. And I'm sure that we will see, you know, some, you know, AAA and other roadside assistance companies using these things to provide assistance to EVs that are stranded. And finally, the Sphinx, does it explode randomly, like a Tesla burning you to death? It did not during the week that I had it. We'll have to wait and see. I'm not aware of of any four TVs exploding randomly to date. But you know, anything can happen. All right. And I think that's enough for today. Nicole Wakelin 1:31:50 Okay. Like I'm done. I've had it done with your questions, people. Yeah. Sam Abuelsamid 1:31:58 Anything else you want to add? Roberto Baldwin 1:32:00 Yeah, that's it. No. All right. Sam Abuelsamid 1:32:04 Then we'll see you next week. Bye, everybody.