Sam Abuelsamid (00:04)
This is episode 423 of Wheel Bearings. am Sam Abuelsamid from Telemetry.

Nicole Wakelin (00:10)
And I am Nicole Wakelin from Top Speed.

Roberto Baldwin (00:14)
and I'm Roberto Balda from SAE International and SAE International's Automotive Engineering Podcast. There you go. Look at that. Look at that. Doing my job. Look at that. Got a new episode coming this week. Yeah. This week's topic is EV manufacturing. talked to, I talked to Hyundai, we talked to Voltaic and we talked to Bosch. So the big three. no, just broke something.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:22)
Excellent.

Nicole Wakelin (00:24)
the

things. Go Robbie! ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (00:29)
can't count. what's what's the topic?

Okay, cool. Can't can't wait to hear what they all have to say.

Roberto Baldwin (00:44)
well

Nicole Wakelin (00:45)
Ha

ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (00:46)
don't put that down yet which he i did a fidget spinner

Sam Abuelsamid (00:51)
⁓ Well, Nicole, ⁓ it looks like you've driven a thing or three.

Nicole Wakelin (00:53)
Yeah.

driven a thing or three. know some of this is I've just had so much and then I've missed an episode I'm like I just have a list of stuff I have to talk about the show. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (00:58)
⁓ wow.

Sam Abuelsamid (01:04)
Well, first of all, before we talk about what you drove, did you guys

find a place for Rose and Reza's wedding? Okay.

Nicole Wakelin (01:10)
We did. have, we

have figured out the wedding. That was our mission last week and wedding location has been secured. Giant check has been written. The wedding is all set to go. Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (01:17)
And you thought when she

Roberto Baldwin (01:18)
Yay!

Sam Abuelsamid (01:21)
graduated that all your problems were over.

Nicole Wakelin (01:24)
I

know, right? thought tuition checks were the last big checks I was going to write. I'm like, what is this? Is this just the deposit? Fabulous. But yes, we have found, we have found a spot for the wedding. So yeah, it'll be lovely.

Roberto Baldwin (01:31)
Yay! Nicole's gonna be doing extra work for the next day.

You're gonna see Nicole's knit byline everywhere.

Sam Abuelsamid (01:38)
Okay.

Nicole Wakelin (01:40)
⁓ I know I got to write 800 stories a day to pay for this wedding. ⁓ Right. Anybody want to throw a couple of dollars my way to write something? Let me know. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (01:40)
Yeah, it's gonna be cranking out stories like mad. Anybody that'll pay her a few shuckles, you know. Or, you know, you could just subscribe to the Wheel Bearings Patreon. Throw a few dollars Robbie and Nicole's way.

Roberto Baldwin (01:56)
⁓ yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (01:57)
Right? Help us all.

It'll go to the Rose Wedding Fund on my end.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:04)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (02:05)
What's it? ⁓

I just pay, have to, my food for my animals is very expensive. And music gear isn't cheap.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:11)
Well, there's that too. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (02:13)
Yes, that too.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:16)
⁓ all right, Nicole, what did you drive?

Nicole Wakelin (02:22)
OK, well, talk about when I drove to do the site visits for the wedding. was the F-150 Lightning, which I've driven before. Yeah. So the fun thing was. here's the fun thing. So I had them along for the ride and especially as he doesn't ride in a lot of press cars. It's kind of neat to hear him like, what's going on here? Right. So the thing we had that I had a loaner vehicle for some from.

Roberto Baldwin (02:30)
Mmm.

Nicole Wakelin (02:46)
other reasons that was an SUV. I have a Durango that's not a new Durango sitting in the driveway, not reviewing it, just sitting there. And I said, do you guys want to take the truck or you want to take the Durango? I'm just reminding you that the truck is a bouncy little ride compared to just.

Little Durango's like, no, I want to take the truck. I went over his bean bump slightly too fast and his head hit the top of the truck and the boom. And now he's six, three, six, four. And he's like, Hey, I'm like, I gave you a choice, boy. Yeah. Could have been in the Durango. You chose the lightning. Then as you're driving. I know it might not have been.

Sam Abuelsamid (03:08)
You

Yeah, but you know what? If you drove the Durango over that same speed bump at the same speed, it probably would have been the same

thing.

Nicole Wakelin (03:24)
It

might not have been significantly different, but then there was something else you were driving and like, it's not that it's unwieldy, but it's a big heavy truck, right? So if you're on winding New Hampshire back roads, it's like, whoa, and he said something. He's like, I know, I can't say anything. I had a choice. I had a choice. I picked this. But it was great. I mean, we had four people in it. And I really went for quite the drive because I was up in the White Mountains.

Sam Abuelsamid (03:37)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (03:46)
It was very easy to drive, very easy to park, surprisingly and comfortable. I mean, we were in that car for hours. We were driving around in that thing and it was really, really nice. I the platinum, which is the fancy fanciest of the fancy. And it is eighty four thousand nine hundred and ninety five dollars. Eighty four thousand nine hundred ninety five dollars. It's a lot. It's not an inexpensive truck.

Sam Abuelsamid (04:12)
On

the other hand, six or 12 months ago, it was $93,000.

Nicole Wakelin (04:18)
Yes, so surprisingly that's a bargain now is what Sam was saying. Everything's relative. And Destination P, you guys wanna take a guess?

Sam Abuelsamid (04:21)
Yeah, everything's relative.

Ooh, destination fee on the Monroney or what it is right now if you actually went to buy one.

Roberto Baldwin (04:29)
Huh.

Nicole Wakelin (04:33)
Well, what it is,

Roberto Baldwin (04:33)
⁓

Nicole Wakelin (04:34)
I Googled it right now. So this is what it told me right now. You can guess what my source said. Good luck.

Sam Abuelsamid (04:39)
Okay, ⁓ I think

Roberto Baldwin (04:43)
18.

Sam Abuelsamid (04:43)
I'm assuming it's the same as all the other F-150s, which would put it at $25.95.

Nicole Wakelin (04:50)
Robbie?

Roberto Baldwin (04:50)
I

18 like a fool. ⁓ I said 18, I just gotta live with it.

Nicole Wakelin (04:52)
You always hit 18. OK, what I got was

$21.95. $21.95 is what came up when I searched. But as we've discovered over the last couple of weeks, depending on the instant at which you look for the destination, your source, whether you're looking at a Monroni or the OEM site or their media site, which might not be actually weirdly as updated as a consumer site, you're to range in numbers, Which is awful, right? That you could have anything from

Sam Abuelsamid (04:59)
Okay, so maybe they didn't increase that one yet.

Roberto Baldwin (05:00)
I need...

Nicole Wakelin (05:20)
Like you could have a five, six, seven, $800 swing in this number.

Sam Abuelsamid (05:25)
Your charges will vary.

Nicole Wakelin (05:26)
Your charges will vary. Yes. ⁓ So the Platinum, they're all dual motor, they're all four wheel drive. ⁓ The Platinum, there's three batteries. There's like a standard range, then two extended range. all have 70. Well, it comes up with two. It had 123 kilowatt and a 131 kilowatt one. When you look at their, yeah. When you look at the technical specs.

Sam Abuelsamid (05:42)
No, there's only one extended range.

Nicole Wakelin (05:55)
for the vehicle, it comes up with two different, and I was trying to figure out, yeah, I was a thrown too, Sam, but it does show 123 kilowatt extended range battery, 131 kilowatt extended range battery. And I think it's a trim level thing. The Pro and the Flash get the 123, and then the Platinum, the Lariat, and I guess available on the Pro is the 131.

Sam Abuelsamid (06:22)
because previously the standard range battery was like the 96 or 98 kilowatt or 98. Yeah, well, yeah, think it was always 98. ⁓ But I wonder, I'll have to check with Ford and see if they added another variant.

Nicole Wakelin (06:28)
This is 98 now. Yeah, so it's 98 now. That's what an.

Yep.

Yeah, so that's how it's coming up.

Well, I think it's because of that flash thing. Isn't the flash like its own little animal? He'll save us all, every one of us. Dun, dun, dun, dun.

Roberto Baldwin (06:45)
⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (06:47)
Yeah, but usually I don't think that they put

Roberto Baldwin (06:47)
Sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid (06:50)
a smaller or lower capacity battery in it

Nicole Wakelin (06:52)
That's what it has. So unless their tech specs are wrong, because that's what I am literally looking at right now.

Roberto Baldwin (06:52)
The tiny one of us

Sam Abuelsamid (06:56)
Well,

given the current state of the Ford Media site, ⁓ I would not be the least bit surprised if the tech specs were wrong.

Nicole Wakelin (07:00)
Right?

Roberto Baldwin (07:01)
⁓ gosh. I have

Nicole Wakelin (07:04)
So

Roberto Baldwin (07:04)
no idea where to find anything. It's the absolute worst thing on the planet.

Nicole Wakelin (07:04)
I am exactly, so I am going ⁓ with the official tech specs that I have pulled up because of this exact confusion that I had to Sam. And I'm looking at their official PDF at this very moment that has the three different. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (07:22)
I believe I believe what you're reading. I'm just not sure I believe that's what's actually in the vehicle.

Nicole Wakelin (07:24)
Yeah, exactly right.

Roberto Baldwin (07:26)
I don't believe either of you.

Nicole Wakelin (07:28)
We're just all liars, liars, liars, damn liars. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (07:30)
I, ever since the Ford

media, I see, I think our listeners, okay, so every automaker has a media site and these media sites are varying ⁓ degrees of quality and helpfulness. All we want is like, I want a specs, I want an updated spec sheet. want, know, ⁓ like a page where like, let's talk about, you know, the RAV4. Okay, I want to go to that page and see everything about the RAV4.

Nicole Wakelin (07:37)
and they're not all good.

Sam Abuelsamid (07:40)
quality.

Nicole Wakelin (07:47)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (07:57)
and there's photos and maybe there's some B-roll and there's PDFs we can download for tech specs and various trim levels and that's it. And somehow Ford decided, nah.

Nicole Wakelin (08:05)
Yeah. They came up with this new

site. It is not easy to navigate. It's complicated. It took me more tries than it should have to find this goofy document. ⁓ Once it's there, it has all the stuff you need. It's the finding it part. You're like, nope, not there. Nope, not there. Nope, also not there. Where would it be? So yeah, this one is, yeah, you're trying to click on the right link. Yes, maybe.

Roberto Baldwin (08:25)
It's like you're Lewis and Clark looking for Oregon. I mean, maybe you'll make it. Some people are gonna die

on the way.

Nicole Wakelin (08:32)
Right. You might. Yeah, exactly. So people are going to die on the way. Who knows? So I have the Platinum. The Platinum has, according to this, ⁓ 131 kilowatt battery ⁓ is what it has, and that is an extended range battery. And this is also the most powerful of the lot. is 580 horsepower. That base battery, the standard range is 452. They list the questionable middle range extended range battery as 536.

Roberto Baldwin (08:36)
People aren't gonna make it.

Nicole Wakelin (09:00)
So, but I was confused, but this is what it says. So.

I found the range came up about what we like. It seemed like it was about right for what I was driving. Mind you, I've got four people in the truck the whole time and we're in the White Mountain. So there's some it's an altitude thing. So you have some big ups and big downs with the with the hills. But it seemed like it was pretty good. My only my biggest complaint was and I just have bad luck with charging you guys. So we went to the first place to charge and the charger was out of order because we're kind of north. So it's not like you get charging banks where there's, you know, six, eight different places you can

and

plug in at one charging station. It was out of order. Second one we went up to, there was one.

Working one out of order and the one that was working there was a man there was someone plugged in there already So I couldn't get it charged. We had like 30 miles of range when we got home and I'm literally watching I'm like, I think we're gonna be good. I think we're gonna be good Please don't get me stranded in northern New Hampshire. I think we're gonna be good So we made it with like 30 something miles to spare because we did a lot of driving that day ⁓ So that so I had a little little range anxiety because the charging stations were refusing to cooperate with my charging needs I did enjoy driving it though. It's a nice truck, know

It has a lot of power, it moves. You know, when you have those EVs, they always have that sort of, that instant EV torque everybody talks about, and this is no exception. It's a quick truck despite being a heavy truck. It's nice to drive, it was great on the highway. I do find it a little, little ⁓ rolly in twisty-turny roads when you start getting on side roads, which is where we were for part of the time. ⁓ Then I feel like the handling isn't quite...

to me, but I do love the Platinum. feel like the, you know, it's a lot of money. It is not cheap, but it definitely feels like a luxury vehicle. you got like leather everything. You got heated seats. You got heated, you know, it has all the bells and whistles that you could possibly want. And it has the table that folds down, which isn't exclusive to the Platinum trim, but it has the table. So when you, there's a button you push next to the gear shift, gear shift folds flat into the center console. Then the lid essentially on the center console that covers the storage cubby folds

out and you have a little table which we use to eat lobster rolls in a parking lot. I call it the cookie table because I like to use cook they call it a work table which is lame. I call it a cookie table, burrito table.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:11)
I believe the official terminology for that table is the cookie table.

Roberto Baldwin (11:20)
I called it the burrito table. I think they were just different. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (11:23)
Right? But yeah, it's still the cookie table, taco table. This week it was the lobster table. We had lobster rolls, which were fabulous. And right before the place we were going to was closing for the season. So we got in our one last lobster roll up on the seacoast in New Hampshire. And it is great. Like, was really the first time I've truly used it for anything beyond putting cookies on it. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (11:24)
Taco table.

Roberto Baldwin (11:25)
soccer table.

Nicole Wakelin (11:45)
But we had like the bag open. have everything open. It is really just the perfect size for if you're going to be someone who's going to be working and you're running around, you're having to eat lunch in your truck or something. It's a great little size for having our food on. So it worked out. So I enjoyed I mean, I really enjoy driving this. I feel like, you know, the challenge with this truck or any EV that's a truck.

If you're really towing, if you're going to be towing, it's tough because you lose a lot of that range when you're towing. So depending on whether towing is a priority for you or an occasional thing for you, choose carefully between this and a straight up normal gas powered ⁓ F-150. That would be my biggest reservation. ⁓ It's a pricey little bugger.

It's pricey. But I did enjoy driving it. I think it's a good vehicle. I love how it looks. I like the lighting and stuff. I like that there's a little American flag with a lightning bolt on the back. That amuses me for no particular reason. I love that little badge. ⁓

Yeah, so overall, that's, you know, F-150 Lightning. There weren't significant changes for, you know, coming out for 26. It's kind of just cruising along, doing its own thing. So even though we're at the end of the 25 model year, you're not going to see huge changes, I don't think, for 26. But we'll have to see what happens and what does with pricing and all that kind of stuff. They get a new trim, I think. I keep wanting to see STK. STX, I keep wanting to say STK, which is a steak place. I'm like, that is not.

Sam Abuelsamid (13:07)
STX.

Yeah, the STX

is replacing the XLT.

Nicole Wakelin (13:14)
the XLT and it's supposed to be like the more off-road one it gets like a locking rear diff, e-locking rear differential, some little goodies and such, off-road tires I think. So yeah, that's the F-150 Lightning. So that was my road tripping around New Hampshire car last week.

Yeah, so that was one. Then they put me in another giant Ford. They put me in the Ford Expedition Trummer. So it's just one giant Ford to another giant Ford. ⁓ This weirdly was harder for me to drive. I don't know why I found it more. I drove it into Boston yesterday to meet somebody for brunch like one does in their giant Expedition Trummer. And somehow like it just I.

Every time I parked this, felt like I had to park 18 times. was like, I could not get into parking space right the first time to save my life. So I just, it was, it was huge. And the parking garages in Boston were, A, you feel like,

Sam Abuelsamid (14:08)
mean, the thing is like 36 feet long.

Nicole Wakelin (14:16)
you know the height of the car is a fixed number and you know the height of the garage is a fixed number, but I can't look up while I'm driving at all because I'm like, no, no, I'm going to take off the roof of this vehicle. It felt so close. There was a spot where they had like, you know, they'll put sometimes like insulation around air vents or whatever in a garage and it gets a little frayed. And it was like just the soft installations hanging down slightly. And there were little bits of strings and stuff. And I was like.

Sam Abuelsamid (14:40)
You mean that as best

as probably?

Nicole Wakelin (14:41)
That

asbestos garbage, it's I'm like that has got to be touching the top of this truck that has got to be done. And I can't hear it because it's just soft. But it was it was a little disconcerting. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right. And the rest is there. He's like, you know, you're fine. There's enough room. like, I know, Mr. Logic, but when you look up, it looks like I'm going to take out that pipe. So I did drive it and I did manage to park it in the narrowest parking spot.

Roberto Baldwin (14:50)
like taking big trucks to airport parking. Cause the whole time I'm like, ⁓ I don't, I don't.

Nicole Wakelin (15:11)
in the parking garage with two giant like support beams next to me. So I had no little post. I'm like, there's no room here. But that was it was nice to drive. I mean, I enjoy driving it. It's it's big. And this wasn't the max, the max, like the long wheelbase. I just good luck with that.

Unless you live in the middle of Nebraska, I know how you drive that anywhere. But uniformly, and I was out with a couple different people with this this week, everybody loves the screen setup. How you have the one digital screen that is in front of you but set back, almost like where you'd have a head-up display, sort of is where it kind of looks like it is on the dashboard, and the infotainment screen is front and center but closer to everybody. But.

two different people, Russ and a friend of mine, we were driving and they both went to reach the gear shift instead of the volume control. Because they're right next to each other, sort of under the infotainment screen and the gear shift is a spinning knob. It's bigger, it's much bigger, the volume is a tiny knob. But they both reached for it, which was funny. They're like, and I was backing up the one, I was in reverse.

one girl, she hit it as I was running like, why did the car just stop? Because she thought she was spinning the volume and she was spinning the gear. Yeah. Knocked it into neutral. I had a moment of like, what did I just hit something? Because that's abrupt when you suddenly flip a car into neutral. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (16:23)
get into neutral.

Nicole Wakelin (16:32)
So she did that. And then Russ Grubbs was like, why is this right next to each other? Why are these this way? And I think, well, that's that's kind of funny. Two different people did the same mistake. One guy that's, you know, one Russ and one young woman who's about like 25 or something. So it's not even an age thing. Totally different people. Same impulse was to reach for the wrong button. I that was interesting. Yeah. So. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (16:53)
⁓ yeah. I'm sure it's happened a lot

of times all over the world at this point.

Nicole Wakelin (16:59)
I'm sure we're not the

only ones. We are not the only ones. And the tremor is like the S XT. I did it right. Of the F1 STX. Dang it. Of the Lightning is the off road ish version of the Expedition. It gets. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (17:06)
STX.

Nicole Wakelin (17:15)
10.6 inches of ground clearance. It gets 33 inch off-road tires. There's skid plates. It has the trail turn assist when you wanna do really tight turns. There's an off-road and a rock crawl mode. I wanna know what human is doing any of that in a car this big. I guess one.

Roberto Baldwin (17:34)
No humans? This is when

your boss, you know, ⁓ goes on, goes to the burning man and you have to go pick them up. they're like, I got to go to, okay. I just got a call. What? my God. He's on so much mescaline.

Nicole Wakelin (17:43)
Are you a little bit of a... Yes. Okay.

You're like fine.

So this is the single use case. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (17:55)
Ha

Roberto Baldwin (17:56)
I gotta go pick him up. Well, you gotta take

the, are you gonna take the G-Wagon? No, no, no. I need to take something that's not, if it gets scratched, it's not that big of a deal.

Nicole Wakelin (18:04)
I'm

gonna take the expedition tremor.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:05)
And the G-Wagon's

on high performance street tires, and it's just going to get stuck in the mud there.

Nicole Wakelin (18:12)
It's going to be stuck in two seconds.

This would not get stuck in the mud. This would get you out of the mud. think you would not be stuck. That's true. Everything is stuck in the mud.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:16)
I don't know, based on some of the mud I've seen the last two years, pictures of the mud at Burning Man, I think even the tremor would probably get stuck.

Roberto Baldwin (18:22)
No, everything, everything gets stuck in that mud. You need a, you

need ⁓ a tracks like a, like tank tracks. get, yeah. To get, to get a, yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (18:28)
There you go. Like tank tracks, modify your expedition.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:28)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (18:33)
this is, it is the off-road version of this. I feel like some of those features, you're probably not doing the things that would require those features in an expedition, but if you are, good for you. ⁓ I do like how it looks. It is really roomy. It is huge. It's a cavernous SUV. It has the split... ⁓

Tailgate that has a little drop, I forget what the word, clamshell, sorry, I think of the word, where it lifts up as the major portion. There's a tiny little piece that flips down, which I just love that because in your groceries don't go rolling out of the car. ⁓ So it makes a nice little pod for your stuff. And so I like that. And driving it, it's fine. It is a 3.5 liter V6 and has a 10 speed auto and there's 440 horsepower, 510 pound feet of torque. It goes, you know it's big, it goes.

It sounds like it goes. It's one of those big vehicles that when you hear the sound of it, it's not sports car sound, but it's that aggressive, like get out of the way. Like I love the way it sounds. You match the gasket on the highway and just kind of like it's not like it's this fancy, super crazy engine, but it just sounds mean in a good way. Like move it. You and your tiny little thing get out of my way. I'm going to run you right over. So I did enjoy driving this aside from having to park it in the parking garage at the Prue down in Boston yesterday, where I thought.

I was going to die. ⁓ But otherwise, I enjoyed driving the Expedition.

Sam Abuelsamid (19:59)
Alright, and what was the other thing?

Nicole Wakelin (20:02)
Oh, third thing. Wait. Oh, I just closed it. Shoot. It was it was 2000. What do you say? $2,000. What are you going to say, Sam? So mine came up as 2095, which is not the same as the lightning. It's just its own little animal. And I'm like, what? What the heck?

Sam Abuelsamid (20:03)
wait, did we do the pricing on the Expedition?

Roberto Baldwin (20:07)
$2,000? I don't know.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:13)
⁓ twenty five ninety five

Nicole Wakelin (20:23)
I don't get it. So basically you're going to blow a couple thousand dollars on destination folks somewhere in that neighborhood. Let's see if I can this to come back up. Nope, I closed it. No, it's... So...

Roberto Baldwin (20:32)
So much money

Sam Abuelsamid (20:35)
I'll find it.

Nicole Wakelin (20:38)
Yeah, so you're just, you know, you're using a lot of, you're going to spend a lot on destination no matter what. You're going to spend a couple thousand dollars. Wait, let's see if I can get it. It was, here we go. It was, 2095 is what I came up with and the tremor trim came up at $78,035.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:56)
Well, on the Ford building price right now, it's $25.95.

Nicole Wakelin (21:00)
Yes.

Okay. See, so I made this like two days ago and it was probably, I don't know, came up as 2095.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:05)
Yeah, so they probably just changed it on Friday.

Roberto Baldwin (21:07)
Man.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:09)
Yeah, no,

I mean they've all been changing. This was what we talked about a couple of weeks ago, that they're cranking up all these destination charges or they're hiding the price increases.

Nicole Wakelin (21:13)
Yeah.

That's a lot. Like we just think, I know these are big vehicles, like, gosh, $2,500. That's like 26. That's like a price of like a random package. You know, once upon a time you want to like add, I don't know, heated seats or something or the premium infotainment system, or you could just have the car. That's like the destination charge on it now. That's a little insane. And it's not a Ford thing. It's an everybody thing. Everyone's doing it.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:26)
26.

Yeah.

Yeah, mean,

Ram, you know, they raised their destination charges on the trucks to the 25.95 sometime in the last couple of weeks. The only one that hasn't so far is Toyota. They're still at, I think they're still at 19.95 or 20, 20.95.

Nicole Wakelin (22:00)
which is a

downright bargain under $2,000 at this point, go Toyota. So yeah, so those are the vehicles that I had the last couple of weeks. I was all big Ford things, Ford F-150 Lightning, Ford Expedition Tremor. I feel like whatever I get next week has to be smaller, because unless someone gives me a Hummer, there is nothing bigger.

Sam Abuelsamid (22:04)
Yeah.

Well, I don't know if I mentioned it here on the show, but there's somebody in my neighborhood who until about three weeks ago had a Model Y parked in their driveway. ⁓ They have since gotten rid of that vehicle and replaced it with another EV.

Nicole Wakelin (22:38)
Did they get a hummer? Wow. Wow, that's quite the change.

Sam Abuelsamid (22:39)
They did. They got a hummer pickup.

Roberto Baldwin (22:41)
Wow. I see them around.

I guess you're going for it. You gotta go going all in.

Nicole Wakelin (22:48)
I

if you want to, I still maintain if you want the car, no matter what anybody thinks, buy it. If you like it, makes you happy and you can afford it, knock yourself out.

Sam Abuelsamid (22:50)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (23:00)
It's the only convertible EV you can get in America.

Sam Abuelsamid (23:01)
⁓

That's ⁓ no. ⁓ yes. Yes. I was thinking convertible pickup truck because the gladiator is a convertible pickup. All right. What about the. Yeah. What about the passport? Did you want to talk about that?

Roberto Baldwin (23:06)
I'm just mid.

Yeah, basically.

There you go. You want a convertible. Boom.

Nicole Wakelin (23:19)
Well, that's more of a drive. I mean, I can talk about it now. So that wasn't so much a review vehicle that I had as it was a program. And I don't think I've talked about this, the passport off-road drive that I did in the Carolinas, South Carolina, North Carolina. North Carolina. OK. I lost track of my weeks. I'm like, I have that written down. Did I ever talk about that? So they invited me to do an off-road drive in the passport. And it wasn't just random place that they picked. They had it in an off-road park.

Roberto Baldwin (23:26)
Is this something you stole?

Sam Abuelsamid (23:35)
Not yet.

haha

Nicole Wakelin (23:49)
in the Carolinas that their engineers actually use for testing. It's not just Honda's. Lots of other companies have used it. In fact, he mentioned seeing other OEMs out there and people even just use it as a recreational thing. But it's this huge area, lots of technical terrain that you can cover. And they've been using that the engineers there for all sorts of testing. So they took us out there. And this is a cool part. It wasn't just like guys who know how to drive, who were were spotting us. Nothing. It was the engineers like the engineers ran this

program, which was like the coolest thing ever because they got so excited about little details. It's like I designed this, this tow hook, this tow hook's mine. Like they were so excited about the things they did and they really, really knew it. So there wasn't, there wasn't a single question you could ask them about the vehicle that they couldn't answer. And they also, as we were out there driving it, because they have driven some of these, many of these trails, because they have designed this vehicle, they know exactly how hard you can push this. And that was sort of the

Roberto Baldwin (24:20)
Cool.

Nicole Wakelin (24:49)
of the program was to show that the passport ⁓ is now off-road. There is an off-road capable passport. It's not just off-road in name only. And they took us out there and

They proved it. They took us on some really technical trails. It required spotting in places. And then they did this thing that was absolutely terrifying. So they said that instead of having somebody spot you, you had your drive partner spot you. They wanted you to understand what it was like to just...

drive off road in the passport and how you would learn to spot somebody in the trail sport trim, which is their fancy trim for off-roading. And you had to spot, and I'm like, I've never spotted anybody driving like that in my life. Now they had an engineer kind of hover behind you. So if I had told the guy to go left and he's like, you're going to kill him, go right, he would have said that. But it was still this incredible experience trying to help spot these people through like really tricky stuff. And there was a lot of times, were a lot of times when it was rocky enough that if you didn't take the right

line, it wasn't like you were damaging the car so much, although you could have. It was, nope, you're not going anywhere because now you've got yourself on rocks that aren't going to let you do it. And they had us do this one really technical route and they had us use the off-road mode and it figured it out and we get through it. Then they had one guy, what journalist they made him, made him, asked him, he volunteered to drive it, not in the off-road mode, to just drive it straight up. And the difference between when you were when you were telling the car I'm off-road and I want to drive off-road,

and letting it think it was on the highway was dramatic. He still got through it, but it was a lot more work. But I was genuinely impressed with this. Like, it's funny because there's so many vehicles that they say, that can go off-road. That's our off-road trip. And you're like, other than having orange accents, there is nothing about this that is off-road, right?

Roberto Baldwin (26:39)
Well the tires

Sam Abuelsamid (26:40)
And all-terrain tires.

Roberto Baldwin (26:43)
and tires

Nicole Wakelin (26:43)
And all terrain tires,

right? Like red is the color of fast. Orange is the color of off road. just because you made it orange, made orange tow hooks or put orange accents on it does not guarantee capability. This was really capable. ⁓ I thoroughly enjoyed this drive and it was two full days of driving. It wasn't a three day drive program. It was four. And the first day we even spent a day in the classroom, like at little thing classroom, I say little tiny garage thing that served as a classroom where they went through like we're going to teach

you as if you don't know. We're going to teach you how to drive off road. We're going to teach you what these technical things mean. They even had a little tiny Lego version to show you how the differential works. Like they were all playing with this little Lego thing that they made. ⁓ And what's even cooler, so they started doing this as a

Roberto Baldwin (27:22)
Cool.

Nicole Wakelin (27:31)
like the engineers started doing this, then they started training more engineers, then they start, you know, they're testing. They're training people who aren't anywhere near engineering in Honda because they feel like in order for people to understand what their vehicles do and why they need certain features, it's important for an executive to occasionally get out there and drive it.

see what it means to drive a trail sport off road. So they have people from all sort of different walks of life within Honda who were taking this same little course, only theirs is more in depth because they have more time for it to learn what the vehicles can do and also why certain features are important. So it also serves as like a development thing and almost like internally for the engineers to sell the stuff to the product guys that they want to do and why. Like if we had this, it would do that and see what it does off road.

was a really fascinating experience and I already thought the trail sport was surprisingly capable. Now it's even more so. I was genuinely shocked by how much.

this could handle, how well it drove, the technical stuff that it could manage. yeah, because I don't think, I know they have a long history, but I think of Honda more performance-y than off-road, and this changed that perception for me. I definitely think like they're really going after it. They're going at it, and they're not just doing it with orange.

trim. They're doing it with a serious plan and attitude. So yeah, I took the Honda Passport Trailsport off-road in conditions that were truly serious and the thing was a champ.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:00)
I was just watching, ⁓ right now the guys at TFL have a Passport Trail Sport on a long-term loan from Honda for three months. And so they've been doing some off-road stuff with it and I was watching something the other day. ⁓ The one flaw in the Passport, because the Trail Sport especially, it's got skid plates, it's got the all-terrain tires. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (29:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes. What's the flaw?

Roberto Baldwin (29:24)
It never learned to love.

Nicole Wakelin (29:28)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:29)
You know, it's got the IVTM 4 system on the rear axle that acts like a locker. The problem is it doesn't have enough ground clearance. It's. Yeah, it's it's.

Nicole Wakelin (29:32)
Yeah.

It doesn't have huge ground clearance. if you're right. So if you're

going to crawl over something like because I want to say it's it's it's light off-roading only in the sense that it's not made to crawl over giant rocks and such or things that are overly. But you can still handle. It's not but I don't want it's it's like a medium off-roader and is the ground clearance that is what holds it back. You're absolutely right. But so if you're going over really tall rocks, big rocks, big rocks, I guess.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:50)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (30:07)
or incredibly uneven terrain, you have to pick your line very, carefully to make sure that you are balancing where so that you don't bottom it out. So you do have to really learn to pick your line. ⁓ But I think people who are doing that, like if when you're off-roading and if you're doing more technical stuff.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:13)
You don't want to bottom it out.

Nicole Wakelin (30:25)
If you're really, truly technical, if you're really truly an expert, you're going to be able to look and say like, that's the line I need to take or I'm not, I can't hit that. Like that's too much. I can't handle that. But it does handle like, think for the average person far more than other off-road vehicles.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:40)
Yeah, but just for comparison, the Passport has 8.3 inches of ground clearance. A Subaru Cross Track, base Cross Track has 8.7 and the Wilderness is 9.3. it's got, the Cross Track Wilderness has got a full extra inch of ground clearance compared to the Passport.

Nicole Wakelin (30:46)
Yeah.

Yeah.

It does. Yeah. The ground clearance

is it's is it's it's weak point. ⁓ But it wasn't such a weak point that I think for the for me, for the person who's typically getting this for the family who's going off roading and once just push it a little bit further than they might generally. If you're a hardcore off roader, you're not going for either of these really. You know what I mean? You're going for something you're you're going to buy a Bronco. Yeah. But in terms of the sort of medium off roader, it's it's it's a really. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:17)
Yeah. Yeah. You're going to buy a Bronco or a forerunner or.

Yeah, yeah, mean, not to take

away, know, because I mean, when we drove at Puerto Rico earlier this year, you know, I mean, on, you know, some muddy trails and things like that, you know, through deep woods, it did great. It did surprisingly well. ⁓ You just have to be wary of, you know, going over any obstacles that are too large. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (31:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

It did. Yeah.

And I

know and I learned something neat I don't know if they talked about this when we were in Puerto Rico Sam But they talk about how the recovery hooks on the front of the vehicle are designed the guy who designed them was there okay the engineer and They had all these challenges like there's all challenges with where you put recovery hooks because they have to be strong enough to pull a vehicle out and they can't like rip apart the car they have to be attached in certain spots, but they also have to be able in addition to handling that you know torque from towing the vehicle out of something or

pulling another vehicle out. If you're in an accident, you have to make sure that they don't send the energy from that accident directly into the passengers and hurt people or hurt a pedestrian if you had a pedestrian. So there's this balance to be struck in designing these. And he said that Honda has a patent on this. So they are more than capable of, when you're pulling, to be used to pull the passport out of a tough spot or to be used to have the passport.

toast somebody else out of a tough spot. But when it's an impact, if it's the right impact, they actually collapse. So that they collapse in such a way that they distribute the force into the vehicle so it won't hurt the people inside. And also in terms of pedestrian thing, it's less likely to hurt pedestrians and plow into people. So they have this patented collapsible.

Recovery hooks on the front of the vehicle, which I thought were kind of cool. I'd never seen that and he said no this particular thing is patented by Honda He's like I did this. I thought it was kind of cool. Yeah, I thought it was neat

Sam Abuelsamid (33:10)
All right. Well, I drove the 2025. Let me double check the model year. Yes, it was a 2025 BMW 228 X drive Grand Coupe. So this is the four door two series from BMW. And if you look at two series on the BMW website, you'll find two very distinctly different cars. The four door, the Grand Coupe,

Nicole Wakelin (33:18)
Hahaha

Hmm

Roberto Baldwin (33:24)
Bay.

⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (33:40)
is based on a transverse engine, you know, front wheel drive platform. ⁓ Although it's available with all wheel drive, which is what this one was, X drive. ⁓ So this is the same same platform that they use for the many countrymen. ⁓ And I think even for the regular minis now. So, you know, it's it's a very different platform. And then there's the two series coupe, ⁓ which is.

a rear drive, more traditional BMW longitudinal engine. ⁓ That's what you get with the M2 and I think there's a regular two series coupe as well. ⁓ That's a fundamentally different car. So the 228 Gran Coupe, ⁓ four door, compact four door, I really like the size. think it's, for me personally, I think it's a good sized car. ⁓ It's pretty similar in size to

You know, if you think of like an E36 three series, so like a early nineties three series, um, you know, it's comparable to that size because obviously, you know, the three series has gotten a lot bigger over the years as is everything else. Um, so I, I like the size of the two 28, um, the, the engine, uh, the only engine they offer in here in the U S is a two liter four cylinder turbo, 241 horsepower. Um, and.

⁓ with the X drive with the all wheel drive, ⁓ it'll do ZERDA 16 in about 5.8 seconds. the front wheel drive version takes about 6.1 cause it's doesn't have enough grip to get the power down. and, ⁓ but the, the, thing with the interior on this thing, you can definitely see that the direction that BMW has been shifting in the last couple of years with some of their, their newer models. ⁓

moving more and more away from physical controls towards various touch interfaces. It still has manual vents, so that's good. That is acceptable. ⁓ But things like the traditional iDrive rotary knob on the console, that's gone. You've got the shifter is like a little, it's an electronic shifter. It's basically just a little toggle switch.

Roberto Baldwin (35:48)
Yay!

Nicole Wakelin (35:50)
Ha ha.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:06)
that you flip forward or back to go to reverse or drive. And there's a button for park. And then the volume control is like a roller to the right of that. That's in the cluster and you can roll it to adjust the volume. ⁓ And then most everything else is in the touch interface, ⁓ which means ⁓ all your climate controls and everything are in the touch screen. ⁓

Most of that stuff is persistent and stays on the screen. So it doesn't go away when you're, you when you've got a media player up or your navigation or anything like that. So it's there all the time, but you do have to look at it to hit, hit the touch targets, which, you know, not great, but you know, as they say, you can also use voice controls to adjust things like temperature and fan speed. ⁓ And then you can just reach out to grab the, the little things for the, for the vents, for the directional control for the vents. ⁓

I, you know, I actually genuinely liked driving the car, you know, I think I think the performance is great. You know, under six seconds, or 60 is more than adequate for, you know, for any daily driving. The backseat, you know, is a little on the tight side, you know, 510 511, depending on when you measure me. And I can just fit behind myself, you know,

Roberto Baldwin (37:31)
Are you taller

like when you're further away from the earth's core?

Nicole Wakelin (37:34)
Ha

Sam Abuelsamid (37:35)
No, I mean like in the morning I mean if you measure

if you measure your height when you first get up in the morning Assuming you sleep horizontally ⁓ you tend to be a little bit taller in the morning. Then you are at the end of the day. Yeah Yeah, no, it's absolutely true. I it's you know, usually like less than half an inch but Yeah, especially as you get older too Yeah, anyway Well, there's that too, you know the

Nicole Wakelin (37:45)
What really is that real is that true? I keep talking.

Roberto Baldwin (37:50)
As you settle,

as your bones and joints settle, crushing weight of humanity.

Nicole Wakelin (38:00)
Hahaha!

Sam Abuelsamid (38:04)
crushing weight of living in 2025. ⁓ Anyway, ⁓ so I can just fit behind myself in the back seat, you and I have the driver's seat set for my height. ⁓ So you can get four, Robbie would not be comfortable sitting behind me. ⁓ Russ would probably not be comfortable sitting behind you, Nicole. But, you know, if you've got people of...

Roberto Baldwin (38:06)
Woo!

Nicole Wakelin (38:24)
Ha ha ha ha.

Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (38:32)
median height, typical median heights. You could have four adults in here without too much difficulty, at least for shorter drives. ⁓ The trunk is decent size trunk, but as is the case with most sedans that have a fast back roof line, the trunk opening itself is small. ⁓ Given the shape of this thing, I would have preferred if they made it a hatchback, because then you have a nice big trunk opening and if you want to carry bigger stuff, you can fold the back seats down, you can get stuff in there.

⁓ But, ⁓ you know, it handles and drives really well. It was fun to drive. ⁓ Steering feel is not as good as an E36 BMW, but it's not bad. BMW has gotten a lot better with their electric power steering systems over the years. ⁓ This one had the Sport package, which means it's got the adaptive suspension, adaptive dampers. ⁓

Anthracite headliner, whatever the hell Anthracite is. It's got an steering wheel, ⁓ logos all over the place. ⁓ It has the driver assistance package with adaptive cruise and ⁓ active driving assistant pro that ⁓ at speeds below 30 miles an hour, if you're in traffic ⁓ jam on the highway, you can go hands off for a while. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (39:33)
Finally, finally that anthracite headliner I've been waiting for.

I think it's 40.

Sam Abuelsamid (39:59)
⁓ It's got all the other usual stuff that you would expect to find in a more premium vehicle in 2025. you've ⁓ got the nice leather seats and ⁓ digital key if you want to use that with ultra wideband. ⁓ What else? Heated and cooled front seats. Actually, no, sorry, not cooled, just heated front seats. ⁓ It was nicely equipped. ⁓

228X drive starts at $41,600. If you can go with front wheel drive, you can save about $2,000. It starts at $39.6. The bottom line price on this one, $50,825. Guesses on the destination charge.

Roberto Baldwin (40:50)
1200.

Nicole Wakelin (40:50)
1295.

Ooh, we're close.

Sam Abuelsamid (40:53)
What'd you say, Robbie? Robbie gets it, 11.75.

Roberto Baldwin (40:53)
⁓ 1200.

Nicole Wakelin (40:57)
⁓ go Robbie.

Roberto Baldwin (40:57)
Woo!

Sam Abuelsamid (41:00)
⁓ The 228X drive is rated at ⁓ 30 miles per gallon combined, 26 city, 38 highway. I got about 33. So did pretty good on that. ⁓ It's a nice car. And I like the colors, this dark blue color. The Tanzanite Blue 2 Metallic. So it's not Tanzanite Blue 1, but Tanzanite Blue 2. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (41:21)
Hands

Nicole Wakelin (41:24)
⁓ okay.

Roberto Baldwin (41:24)
I don't have an eptansite blue wine. probably

drew people mad with desire. It was too beautiful. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (41:28)
Hahaha!

Sam Abuelsamid (41:29)
I guess. It's a dark blue. It's a good looking color.

So that's the BMW 228 xDrive Gran Coupe.

All right, let's get into some of the stories of the week. First off, Toyota. There was an event in Phoenix this week that we will talk about next time because it's still under embargo. But one of the comments came out talking about on the new Toyota RAV4, the 2026 Toyota RAV4, they have a new trim level called GR Sport.

⁓ In the past, the RAV4 had a TRD trim level or TRD Pro trim level. ⁓ And they've had TRD trims on the cars like the Camry. ⁓ But Toyota is shifting direction a little bit with their branding. And so now going forward, the TRD branding is going to be exclusive for basically for body on frame vehicles. So for trucks and SUVs like the

Land Cruiser and 4Runner. Those will be available with TRD or TRD Off-Road or TRD Pro trim levels. All the cars and crossovers.

Roberto Baldwin (42:56)
Just the

worst three letters to put on your car, but go ahead. You've had time to change it.

Nicole Wakelin (42:59)
It's terrible.

Sam Abuelsamid (42:59)
I know. All the cars and crossovers

will have some variation of GR ⁓ if they have a sporty trim.

Roberto Baldwin (43:07)
Grr, see that sounds cool. See that sounds

Nicole Wakelin (43:10)
So GR for cars and for trucks.

Roberto Baldwin (43:10)
cool. Grr. Turd for trucks.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:13)
Turd for

trucks.

Nicole Wakelin (43:15)
Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:17)
So the new RAV4 has a GR Sport trim level ⁓ and there will presumably on other cars in the, presumably like on the Camry and things like that, they'll add a GR Sport there as well. The sports cars have already been branded as GR for the last several years anyway. The Supra was technically was a GR Supra. You got the Corolla GR and the GR86.

Roberto Baldwin (43:39)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:46)
So now they're just spreading that out to other ⁓ non-body on-frame vehicles.

Roberto Baldwin (43:52)
Makes sense.

Nicole Wakelin (43:53)
Okay, well, I mean, there's a logic to it. They've got a plan. So, okay, we'll get used to it. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (43:56)
Yeah, they have a plan.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:56)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (44:00)
Have I driven up? Nevermind, sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid (44:01)
So ⁓ back, back in the spring, ⁓ Stellantis showed they revealed the next generation ⁓ Jeep Compass. ⁓ And they started production of this thing in Italy last spring for the European market. ⁓ But there was some question about North America because the launch of

Nicole Wakelin (44:11)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (44:26)
this thing or the debut of this new compact crossover coincided with the implementation of all kinds of ⁓ tariffs on vehicles built in places like Mexico and Canada and everywhere else in the world. ⁓ And Stellantis' plan had been to that they, you they were in the process of retooling their Brampton, Ontario assembly plant, which used to build the old Charger and Challenger and Chrysler 300.

And they were retooling that to build the new compass. Well, once the tariffs hit, Stellantis hit pause on that plan. And they stopped, they stopped all the work on the Brampton plant. And it was unclear what Stellantis' plan was for the new compass. But, you know, were they going to build it? Were they going to launch it at all in North America? What, you know, where is it going to come from? And

This week, Stellantis made a big announcement that they're investing $13 billion in U.S. production.

Nicole Wakelin (45:33)
That's a lot.

Roberto Baldwin (45:33)
Where does the

land is have $13 billion? That's my first question. Wait, wait, wait, what's the timeline? $13 billion over.

Sam Abuelsamid (45:37)
⁓ I have no idea.

Nicole Wakelin (45:38)
⁓ That's a good question.

Sam Abuelsamid (45:43)
over the next four years.

Nicole Wakelin (45:43)
In four

years, $13 billion next four years, adding more than 5,000 jobs at new plants in Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, and Indiana. The largest investment the company has won in a year's history. Two new Jeep vehicles in Illinois. Two new Jeep vehicles. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (45:58)
So, yeah, so the Belvedere, Illinois

plant, which has been idle since 2023 when they ended production of the old Cherokee, starting in 2027, we'll be building the new Cherokee, which currently is being produced in Mexico, and also the Compass. Those are both gonna move to Illinois for the U.S. And the Belvedere plant,

was originally slated to build new midsize Ram pickup truck, which still doesn't exist. ⁓ That is instead is going to be built in Toledo alongside the Wrangler and the Gladiator.

Roberto Baldwin (46:35)
page.

Nicole Wakelin (46:40)
Wrangler, Gladiator, new midsize pickup. Launch timing 2028. Wait, 2028? ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (46:44)
Yep. ⁓

for the midsize pickup, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's, mean, you know, this is what we said, you know, when the whole tariff thing starts, these changes aren't going to happen overnight. You're not going to shift production around, you know, in six weeks or six months.

Nicole Wakelin (46:55)
You

They're not fast. You can't.

Best thing, it's

25, that's three years and it's not like Stellantis is dragging its heels here. These are big decisions that are not easy to reverse. Yeah. Yeah. Right?

Roberto Baldwin (47:13)
This is a big swing for Stellantis, a company that's not doing great financially. So, will

all of this happen? Oh, maybe. They're trying? Yeah, okay.

Nicole Wakelin (47:24)
I know.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:29)
So the mid-size truck is gonna be coming out of Toledo. ⁓ And then ⁓ the Warren, Michigan plant that currently produces the Wagoneer, the Jeep Wagoneer, is going to add another full-size SUV ⁓ that will be available with combustion engines and also the E-rev powertrain that we talked about last week that's going into the Wagoneer, ⁓ the Grand Wagoneer in the spring and also in the Ram Rev.

what does this now called. So we don't know which brand this new full size SUV is going to carry. Is it going to be a Ram or is it going to be a Dodge?

Nicole Wakelin (48:05)
Mm-mm.

Roberto Baldwin (48:10)
It's just gonna be called the Hemi. Just name, just get rid of the Ram name, just say the Hemi Ram. The Hemi Ram truck.

Nicole Wakelin (48:12)
A new division.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:12)
The Hemi SUV.

Nicole Wakelin (48:17)
Hemi, the Hemi Ram.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:18)
Ha

Nicole Wakelin (48:21)
And then there's and it's in that Michigan thing. There's also 130 million bucks to make the Detroit Assembly Complex. Jefferson produced the next gen Dodge Durango, but it's production in twenty twenty nine. When how long has the Durango been the Durango? When was the last time the Durango got?

Sam Abuelsamid (48:35)
Yeah, the current.

Roberto Baldwin (48:35)
It takes a long time to do.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:39)
The current

Durango debuted in 2011.

Nicole Wakelin (48:43)
Oof. Oh my God. Both of us. Wow. I, cause I have, I have a Durango my driveway right now. Cause I have a loaner vehicle for my car and it's, it feels, like the Durango. I'm like, man, this feels old. It's not, it's probably a rental car. That's maybe, I don't know, a year old or something.

Roberto Baldwin (48:43)
⁓ It's gonna it's gonna be just old enough to vote and then it'll be like changed

Sam Abuelsamid (48:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, and it's based on the platform of the previous generation Grand Cherokee, because it's built in the same plant, the Jefferson plant. ⁓ And yeah, so yeah, so they're going to finally launch a next generation Durango in 2029.

Roberto Baldwin (49:20)
All right, Durango fans, keep it a.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:22)
And then one

Nicole Wakelin (49:24)
You're finally getting a new car. Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:24)
last thing is the Kokomo Indiana Engine Plant, currently produces... I can't remember what engine they produce there now.

Roberto Baldwin (49:37)
Nah, it doesn't matter.

Nicole Wakelin (49:37)
Sorry. He's like, I don't know. Make some engine thing.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:38)
Anyway, yeah, they produced some

Roberto Baldwin (49:40)
It produces an engine.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:43)
engine there. They're going to be producing ⁓ what is referred to in this press release ⁓ as the all new GME T4 Evo engine. So the current GME engine is the two liter turbo that's in a bunch of ⁓ Stellantis products, ⁓ including the Wrangler plug-in hybrid that you have, Nicole. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (50:05)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:08)
⁓ There's going to be this GME. GME stands for global medium engine. ⁓ So what they're referring to in this release is GME T4 Evo is going to be turbo. Yeah. And we'll have more to say about this one next week.

Nicole Wakelin (50:19)
What's the T? Global whatever and turbo. turbo. Thank you.

Roberto Baldwin (50:31)
Evo stands for Lancer. They're going to start making a Lancer. They're going to.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:34)
Ha ha.

Nicole Wakelin (50:35)
The cheap answer.

Roberto Baldwin (50:38)
Mitsubishi's

like, oh yeah, if you want to buy the right suit, here's some 15 year old designs. All right, we're good with that. Have you seen our Durango? It's been around since 2011.

Nicole Wakelin (50:44)
We'll take it. Yeah, exactly. That's new compared

to our Durango.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:48)
The last Lancer I think did come out after the current Durango. I believe so, yeah. So $13 billion altogether across all these plants to produce these various vehicles and engines. And the big question is, what kind of shape is Stellantis going to be in by the time these hit the market?

Nicole Wakelin (50:52)
Did it really?

Roberto Baldwin (50:53)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (51:08)
I mean, is

what was the latest date? Twenty twenty nine was the latest production date for anything, right? Yeah, because that's that's over the four years. It'll be interesting to see how this comes together.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:13)
Yeah, the Durango is the last one. So it's a four year timeline.

Roberto Baldwin (51:18)
Listen, if you're Stellantis, you need to

Sam Abuelsamid (51:19)
So that.

Roberto Baldwin (51:20)
show the world that you're doing something. That you're doing. Yeah. Alright, that's cool.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:22)
Yeah. So the engine, the engine is actually going to launch production in 2026. Um,

Nicole Wakelin (51:23)
Four years is a long time. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:28)
the, um, uh, the, the Durango is 29. The, the big SUV is 20, 27 or 28.

Let's 28. Yeah. Yep.

Roberto Baldwin (51:40)
Ugh.

Nicole Wakelin (51:41)
So they've staggered it out though. Over the next four years, it's all kind of staggered a little bit here, a little bit there, which

Roberto Baldwin (51:44)
Yeah, yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (51:46)
makes sense. So they get a little bit and they keep going, get a little bit and keep going. So it's a good plan. I hope they can hit it. I'm nervous for Salantis. I feel like there's a lot happening over there.

Roberto Baldwin (51:49)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:54)
Although,

although now, you know, the the government of Ontario is going after Stellantis because they gave them a whole bunch of money to help pay for the retooling of the Brampton plant. ⁓ And now there's no plan for that plant. There's nothing that's going to be built there.

Roberto Baldwin (52:12)
So you gotta give all that money back. That seems like what? I don't know what you're talking about. I know. Yeah, Ontario's like, hey, I gave you money to do this thing and you didn't do the thing. So now you gotta give me the money back.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:13)
Yeah. Well, I mean, maybe that's part of the 13 billion that they've budgeted is how much they have to pay back to the province of Ontario. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (52:14)
What money?

An undisclosed amount for Canada. ⁓ Where's our share? Yep.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:28)
And who knows, maybe

they will sell that plant to, ⁓ maybe a Chinese automaker?

Nicole Wakelin (52:34)
It could happen.

Roberto Baldwin (52:34)
Alright, hey me.

BYD! BYD. Alright, there we go. It's just keep getting bigger and bigger all over place.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:36)
BYD, there's an empty factory waiting for you.

Nicole Wakelin (52:39)
No kidding.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:44)
Yeah. So yeah, so that's.

Roberto Baldwin (52:46)
BYD

reminds me of PYT, the Michael Jackson song from the Albert. I want to love you, BYD. See, that's funny.

Nicole Wakelin (52:49)
Pretty young things, yep.

Thanks for that little flashback there, Robbie. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (52:57)
Thank you, I'm old.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:00)
⁓ Let's finish up one more thing with Stellantis before we move on. ⁓ The Alfa Romeo Tonale. ⁓ Getting a refresh for model year 2026.

Roberto Baldwin (53:10)
to.

Nicole Wakelin (53:11)
there it is.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:12)
What do you think of this new face?

Roberto Baldwin (53:16)
I'm looking at the picture and it looks fine. It looks like an Alfa Romeo actually.

Nicole Wakelin (53:18)
I'm clicking. I mean, it looks fine. Is it

Sam Abuelsamid (53:21)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (53:22)
significantly changed? guess no, I guess it is. That's a pretty good change to it. I like that. What are those like on the sides of the little triangle? What are those little venti bits? There's a little like rectangular bits.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:24)
That's a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (53:33)
⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (53:35)
⁓

Roberto Baldwin (53:35)
to the left and right of the triangle?

Nicole Wakelin (53:37)
Yeah,

to the left and right of the what's that called? Shield. I think they call the shield. What are those little bits? Those are those bits are kind of interesting. I know it holds like. I mean, it looks kind of cool. I don't I don't dislike it. It's like a crystal.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:40)
Yeah, it's a good question.

Roberto Baldwin (53:45)
That's where you stick your sandwiches. It holds four sandwiches for everyone in the car. Like a Quiznos, you can toast your

sandwiches with your new Tonali.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:55)
⁓

yeah. Okay. I just downloaded the image. I'm zooming. It's just some extra little slots for airflow. I Yeah. Yeah. It's got a slightly more aggressive look than the current one. ⁓ I love the wheels. The wheels are cool.

Nicole Wakelin (53:59)
Are they just slots? Okay, just airflow. I kind of like how it looks. I sort of like it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a nice little update. The

wheels. Don't they have wheels very close to that already on unlike the Stelvio?

Roberto Baldwin (54:15)
I believe so.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:17)
⁓

Yeah, yeah, it's an evolution of the kind of pocket wheels that they've had on other models for a while now.

Nicole Wakelin (54:21)
Yeah, it looks great. ⁓

We aren't going to get exactly this. is the European model and it's the one they have here. 2026 Alfa Romeo Tonale Sport Special.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:37)
Yeah, so I don't know which trim levels we're going to get here. but I mean, this, the styling is what we will get. Yeah. And, and on the alpha male USA site, that's, that's the, the, the, the one that they're showing now. Yeah. Yeah. The current, the current to Nali has a, has a wheel design with five, five pockets. And so this is three pockets. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (54:40)
Yeah.

is going to be key. Yeah, no, it looks good. I think they did a nice job. It looks really good.

Roberto Baldwin (54:44)
No.

Nicole Wakelin (54:53)
that they're showing. So it'll be pretty dang close if not that. I think it looks good.

Roberto Baldwin (54:56)
Hopefully.

Nicole Wakelin (55:01)
Yeah, yeah, this is just three.

So it's a little bit more dramatic because you really see those little circles.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:08)
and one other big change for the 2026 Tonali is the, ⁓ no more plugin hybrid.

Roberto Baldwin (55:17)
⁓

Nicole Wakelin (55:18)
they

got rid of the P have.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:19)
Yeah, it's just going to be the two liter turbo. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (55:21)
Interesting.

Roberto Baldwin (55:22)
I don't think they

sell enough of those in this country to even have anything. Yeah, I like the tonali. I just don't think.

Nicole Wakelin (55:26)
What, the tonality in general? Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:26)
Haha

Nicole Wakelin (55:31)
I did

Sam Abuelsamid (55:31)
think the

Nicole Wakelin (55:32)
too!

Sam Abuelsamid (55:32)
Tenali actually sells better than ⁓ the Dodge Hornet does. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (55:35)
Really? Prop

maybe. mean...

Nicole Wakelin (55:38)
I think people don't like the Hornet because like not not journalist people, but regular people, because it doesn't fit the grr argh of Dodge. Like I remember them talking about it when they first came out with it. It was like, we know to give people who want a kinder, gentler version of Dodge, we want to be a part of the Dodge brotherhood and talk about appealing to women and blah, blah, blah. I don't think anybody wants that. I don't think that's exactly what your Dodge person is going for. But.

I like it. I like them both. like I mean, they're essentially the same car, but.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:04)
Let's see, so.

Roberto Baldwin (56:08)
Say it has a Hemi in it. Doesn't matter what the engine is, just writes.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:10)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (56:11)
Stick at me

in a tonale. I would drive the heck out of that car.

Roberto Baldwin (56:14)
Well, the hornet,

just everything cast with a Hemi logo on it, done. Let's get the Hemi, all right.

Nicole Wakelin (56:21)
Yeah, really.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:21)
Okay,

so the Hornet is still outselling the Tenali, but the Hornet so far through September sold 8,486 units, which is down 45 % from last year. And the Tenali sold 2,109 units, which is only down 23 % from last year.

Roberto Baldwin (56:33)
Oof.

Nicole Wakelin (56:34)
Wow.

Roberto Baldwin (56:41)
Yeah, I don't yeah, yeah, I guess that makes sense not to have more than one more than one power train

Nicole Wakelin (56:43)
So neither one is. 21

that yeah, that's not a lot of vehicles. Why why split it up in power trains? Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:49)
in nine months.

Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (56:51)
That's crazy that the car only has like 22, it's gonna sell maybe, maybe, maybe 2,500 over the year. And they're like, hey, we're gonna make a new one and put it in United States. I'm like, is that the best choice for your money right now? And that's, again, I liked the Tonali.

Nicole Wakelin (57:03)
I keep waiting to see what they're going to do with their brands.

Yeah, I keep waiting to see what they're going do with your brands, how much they're going to keep, and if they're ever going to pare down and say, like, we don't need these vehicles and these. It just seems weird. Like, 2,100 units? Eek. You know?

Sam Abuelsamid (57:20)
Well, you know, maybe this new full size SUV they're going to build in Detroit. ⁓ Maybe that'll actually be a Chrysler instead of a Dodge or a...

Nicole Wakelin (57:28)
Oh, he goes all day for Chrysler is the Pacifica. I forgot that's literally one car. You got to do more than one vehicle. mean, I technically they don't, but I mean, you would. The magnum, everybody loved that.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:30)
Yeah, I mean if you're keep the brand around you got to do something

Roberto Baldwin (57:31)
That's funny.

Bring back the Dodge Magnum. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:40)
Yeah,

I would love to see the Magnum back. yeah, maybe a Magnum based on the ⁓ current charger.

Roberto Baldwin (57:42)
Dodge Magnum was dope.

We're not gonna get that.

Yeah, put a Hemi in it.

Nicole Wakelin (57:51)
There we go. We've solved

all of Stellantis' problems just now with this conversation. Stop everything, guys.

Roberto Baldwin (57:55)
We've solved, okay, stop selling the

good, but no one's buying the tonali and bring back to Magnum.

Nicole Wakelin (58:00)
and bring

back a magnum.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:04)
Uhhh...

Roberto Baldwin (58:05)
and brand every engine, Hemi, and you just pipe it into the, you know, the sound into the interior.

Nicole Wakelin (58:07)
Hemi.

That's all you need. You just need the

sound.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:13)
just put the

frat sonic exhaust on everything and but make the sound be exactly like a Hemi.

Nicole Wakelin (58:19)
Exactly, don't make it some super futuristic, you sound like the Jetsons. Make it sound like...

Roberto Baldwin (58:19)
Yeah, that's it.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:22)
and add a little

⁓ haptic feedback thing on the engine, on one of the engine mounts to make it vibrate just like a Hemi.

Nicole Wakelin (58:32)
There you go.

Roberto Baldwin (58:32)
Bop bop

Sam Abuelsamid (58:34)
Yeah.

So it sounds and feels like a hemi, you know. Yeah. So what if it doesn't go as fast?

Nicole Wakelin (58:41)
But it's got the cool parts. Sounds like it, feels like it.

Roberto Baldwin (58:41)
I mean, it's not that the

Sam Abuelsamid (58:42)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (58:44)
Hemi's the fastest engine they have anyway, so...

Sam Abuelsamid (58:46)
Right. So the only reason people want the Hemi is because of the way it sounds and feels. yeah, give them that. Yeah. And, you know, technically, you know, all these four and six cylinder engines are Hemis because, know, they've got sort of hemispherical combustion chambers and that's what Hemi stands for. So, yeah, just call it a Hemi.

Nicole Wakelin (58:46)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (58:51)
and branding.

Nicole Wakelin (58:52)
And it sounds cool. What's in your car? I get a Hemi. just sounds cool.

Roberto Baldwin (58:55)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (59:10)
Yeah, there we go. Problem solved. Problem solved. Hemmy all the things. Used to be Hellcat all the things. Hemmy all the things.

Roberto Baldwin (59:10)
Everything's a Hemi. Everything's a Hemi. Tim's gonna change his first name to Hemi.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:14)
Yeah.

All right, let's see.

⁓ the Kia Tasman. ⁓ This pickup truck, this midsize pickup truck that Kia launched last year ⁓ in Australia with really ⁓ interesting styling. What do you think of the Tasman?

Nicole Wakelin (59:42)
I really kind of liked how the Tasman looked. I thought it was gonna do okay. I thought it was this funky little truck and this story makes me sad. Funky little.

Roberto Baldwin (59:44)
I like how weird it is.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:46)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (59:50)
funky little truck. Sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:52)
Yeah. So they launched it

in Australia. It's not selling real well.

Roberto Baldwin (59:56)
⁓

Nicole Wakelin (59:57)
No

price cut. saying they're doing price cuts and let's see what was there. It said they were trying to sell 10,000 units. I'm scanning through the story. Did they say what they're up to right now?

Roberto Baldwin (59:59)
⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:06)
Yeah, since ⁓

delivery started in June, they've sold fewer than 2,500.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:10)
Oh,

2500 and they were aiming for 10,000. I know. Oh, God.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:13)
That's still... That's more than a tonality though.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:15)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:20)
the Tasman did you guys you liked it Robbie did you like how it looks Sam or was it too weird?

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:23)
I like

it because it's weird, but I think it's maybe too weird, even for the fine people of Australia.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:31)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:31)
come

on Australia, this is a cool little truck. I love how it looks.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:34)
So

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:35)
They flew

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:35)
they

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:36)
too close to the sun.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:36)
were also planning an SUV based on the Tasman. ⁓ But now they are reconsidering that plan. Although frankly, if the SUV looks like what's in this photo here, ⁓ I would probably take that over the Tasman myself. I don't know, I think it's a render.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:38)
Mmm.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:47)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:48)
There was so much excitement about this.

Is that a real photo or is that no? No, it

has some rendering name under there, so it's somebody's imagined version of it. I like the test. mean, when it first came out, remember people were like, oh, it'd be so cool if we got that here in the US. They won't give it to us because we can't have nice things. Well, apparently neither can Australia because they're not buying it.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:01)
of the render.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:03)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:16)
I guess they'll

probably just redesign it. Remember the Subaru, what was the Subaru with the horrible front end? And then they threw that front end on the, ah, you know what I'm talking about? The Tribeca. And then they threw it on the Impreza and then the Impreza, like it was that for like a week. then it went back to like, everyone's like, no. they're like, Subaru's like, okay, we're sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:25)
⁓

The Tribeca.

Nicole Wakelin (1:01:31)
gosh.

a week. Don't do that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:42)
Heh.

Nicole Wakelin (1:01:43)
Sorry,

our bad. Let us fix that.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:45)
I'll probably do

the same thing with this track.

Nicole Wakelin (1:01:48)
I'm sad. I just like this little truck. I thought it was cool. I thought it was cool. Dang it. It's different.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:53)
Definitely different.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:57)
wow. Can't have nice things.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:59)
and it has

those storage boxes above the wheel arches.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:02)
Yeah, you can put all your sandwiches in there, burritos, other foods.

Nicole Wakelin (1:02:02)
Mm-hmm.

It was kind of, I like different, I like the

creativity in car design and this had some creativity to it. Boo hiss, I'm sad.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:14)
⁓ Lamborghini, ⁓ it was at 20, was it the 2023 Monterey car week? They showed a concept called the lens the door, which was a four door GT was going to be their, their first electric vehicle. ⁓ yeah, they've, ⁓ they've shifted position. ⁓ and they decided that they're not going to do EVs just yet. well, you know,

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:14)
⁓ wow.

Lamborghini

Nicole Wakelin (1:02:24)
London.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:40)
Womp Womp.

Nicole Wakelin (1:02:42)
I'm

shocked, tell you shocked. Absolutely shocked.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:44)
You know, these

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:44)
Shocked.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:45)
high end EVs just aren't selling. ⁓ so ⁓ Lamborghini has shifted to, they're going to keep building V12s and V8s and they're going to put a hybrid powertrain in the Lanzador. So basically the same system that's in the new Temurario, which is the replacement for the Gallardo.

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:09)
I don't think anyone's shocked by this. Everybody's going away from pure EVs if they haven't gotten it and they're like, wait, no, we're going to do a hybrid. Hold up.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:16)
If you haven't figured it out, yeah, lower volume brand. I talked to Winkleman, I think at that Monterey Car Week. And he's like, we don't even know what we're talking about. He's like, we don't even know what the questions we're going to be asking or what's going to be happening in five years when it comes to this. yeah. And then I think that same day I talked to, ⁓ not Bentley, Bugatti.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:16)
Well, especially for these lower volume brands.

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:19)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm, it's true.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:44)
He's like, we don't even make enough cars for this to be. And the people who buy our cars, like they don't, they drive them like 18 miles on average.

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:47)
You

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:53)
Yeah. mean, Bugatti makes about 50 cars a year.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:56)
Yeah, and some of those people, never drive the car and others, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:58)
So even if

a Bugatti put out huge amounts of emissions and used huge amounts of fuel, which it does, they don't make enough of them for it to actually have any real impact one way or the other.

Roberto Baldwin (1:04:14)
Yeah, it's like getting mad at your neighbor for not recycling while like the Pepsi companies down the street like burning coal to make soda. Like, all right, hold on. Let's get a little let's get a little perspective here. ⁓ Yeah, I mean, don't you know outside of the the ⁓ the URUS they don't sell a lot of cars. The URUS is like they're you know that pays for everything now we're there at Lamborghini. ⁓ But outside of that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:42)
Yeah, kind like the Cayenne and Macan

do for Porsche.

Roberto Baldwin (1:04:45)
Exactly. ⁓ But yeah, you know, yeah, it's not unexpected, especially, you know, for these little volume like super car makers. mean, and they want to have the hybrid system so they can drive into city centers in Europe.

Nicole Wakelin (1:05:00)
that's right. Yeah, you have to.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:05:02)
Yeah, so you can you geo fence it so it keeps the battery charged up. know, so as you get into these urban centers, it just automatically switches over to electric mode.

Roberto Baldwin (1:05:13)
Which is nice, especially when you live in the city.

Nicole Wakelin (1:05:15)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:05:17)
All right. So Nicole, when you had the Volvo EX30 a couple of weeks back, did you have any issues with unlocking it?

Nicole Wakelin (1:05:18)
Okay.

⁓ I had some challenges, yes. There were some times when you have the little key card thing and it was like, no. I'm like, hello. And I got it to work every time, but ⁓ yeah, was not seamless. Let's put it that way. It was not seamless.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:05:32)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I had the same problem with the, with the, with the X 30, you know, sometimes, you know, normally, you know, if you've got a key fob, you just leave it in your pocket or your purse or wherever. And, know, you walk up to the car and it recognizes it and it unlocks, um, with the, with that key card on the X 30, sometimes it would unlock. Sometimes I'd have to go reaching into my pocket to pull this thing out and tap it on the B pillar. And, you know, most of the time that unlocked it.

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:10)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:14)
Sometimes you have to do it more than once. ⁓ So ⁓ apparently Volvo is recon and they've got the same thing on the EX-90 as well. ⁓ Apparently they are reconsidering that plan to eliminate traditional key fobs and bring those back because they're just more reliable.

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:16)
Ha ha ha.

I mean, some things work because they work, you know. You don't have to reinvent everything. I feel like this is a case of don't reinvent things that don't need to be reinvented.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:45)
⁓

What about traditional metal keys? Would you like to go back to those?

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:52)
I I'm okay with that. I'd be okay with just a good old fashioned metal key.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:57)
having to insert that every time to unlock the doors and to start the car.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:01)
And it's not that hard. How hard

was that? You walk up, you're grabbing the handle anyway, you just put your key in and you open it and that's almost one fell swoop.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:08)
What if you're running from a murderer,

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:10)
Well, you know what, then run very fast or make sure your friends are slower than you.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:12)
That's when the keyless entry or just the bloop bloop bloop bloop just pushing the button.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:16)
Yeah, that's

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:18)
You're like, ⁓

I know you don't have to be the fastest person. You just got to be faster than you. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:19)
when you're being chased by a bear. You just don't want to be the slowest one.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:20)
Just had, right? You just don't need to be

the slowest. Make sure your friends are not very fit and they all run slower.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:26)
You don't need to be faster

than the bear, just faster than your friends.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:30)
Exactly.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:31)
Well, ⁓ Porsche ⁓ has decided, even though some of their customers actually have been asking for ⁓ metal keys for their new Porsche, they're not going to bring back keys, but they are going to keep key fobs and they're going to keep start stop buttons, power buttons. They're not getting away from that.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:42)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:49)
Cool.

All right, that's good enough. That's all. I just want to start and stop button. I know people are like, you get out of the car. it's great. I'm like, no, it's not. It's not that great. I want to push the button. Because I get out of the car and I'm like, I got to get back in there. no, the car's all closed. No, it's turned off. It's, you ⁓ I want to listen to the stereo while I'm washing my car. Psych. No, you don't.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:53)
Okay, there we go.

I'm gonna push a button.

No you can't.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:15)
haha

Yeah, I mean with a lot of EVs, if they don't have a stop start button, you know, when you get out of the car, as soon as you get up out of the driver's seat, it shuts down.

Roberto Baldwin (1:08:29)
For the

Mercedes, I was at, I don't know, one of their testing facilities in Germany or somewhere. I don't even remember, doesn't matter. ⁓ And in order to keep the car on between people driving it, they had a little, like, ⁓ for the seatbelt, they had a little thing where could plug it in. was like just, it was just the insert, yeah, it was just the insert for the seatbelt to keep it on.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:49)
Oh, a little insert.

Nicole Wakelin (1:08:50)
so we think it was still

to fake it out. That's funny.

Roberto Baldwin (1:08:56)
so you could get out and the next person can get in so they can turn. So the car wouldn't keep cycling on and off the whole time. Cause it was a test car. I was like, ooh, I need to get one of these so when I'm doing photographs, because you get out and you're like, I want the lights on. I psych, no you don't.

Nicole Wakelin (1:09:02)
jeez.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:07)
Yeah, I know. Because,

Nicole Wakelin (1:09:10)
Yep.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:10)
exactly. know, it always looks better when the lights are on when you're taking photos of the car and you get out of these cars. like you got maybe 15 seconds before the lights shut off. And yeah, that's just not good. ⁓ But yeah, so ⁓ GM on their EVs, they do have you can go into the menu and there's a thing where you can have it leave the car on for 60 minutes.

Nicole Wakelin (1:09:21)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:37)
when you get out. So we'll stay powered up for 60 minutes. So if you're doing stuff like that, if you're jumping in and out, you know, if you're moving the cars around, you it's not doesn't have to reboot every time. ⁓ But that's not the that's not the default. But

Roberto Baldwin (1:09:52)
I also just put a button just let me turn the car off

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:55)
Yeah. Well,

Port, Porsche is keeping the buttons. They're keeping the key fobs. They're not going all in on, ⁓ on these key cards.

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:03)
All right, good job, Portia. Not that I can afford a Portia. Well, Tom got one. He got to use ⁓ Tom, vocal, how do you say?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:06)
Now if we could just, yeah exactly, we could just afford Porsches.

Nicole Wakelin (1:10:06)
Yay!

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:12)
Tom Who.

Maligne?

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:20)
No, shoot, who got one? Someone got, someone bought ⁓ a used Tycon.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:27)
Was that was that my line? think that was my line. It wasn't.

Nicole Wakelin (1:10:28)
That wasn't me.

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:33)
I'm gonna go with in real time. think it was EV.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:38)
I think I saw a video, I haven't watched it yet, that he just posted recently with a Ticon.

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:44)
Maybe it is time.

No, was, it's Volk. How do you spell, say Tom's name? Volk. I always want to say Volk. I'm sorry, Tom. I'm friends with Tom. I don't know how to say his, how do say his damn last name? Yeah. I remember, we talked about it at some thing and I was super excited for him. And so far he's having a great time. Cause they're, cause the prices like drop like, like crazy. Yeah. But they're, it's crazy how.

Nicole Wakelin (1:10:51)
silence.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:55)
⁓ Tom Volk? okay. He bought, he bought a used Ticon?

Nicole Wakelin (1:10:55)
Vogue, Tom Vogue.

Who's this guy again? ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:12)
I'll bet. They're, they're like, they're the only Porsche that depreciates.

Nicole Wakelin (1:11:15)
Mm.

Hahaha!

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:21)
wonderful that car is though. It's so weird like the price drops as much as it does in relation to the fact that it's an amazing car. I love the Taycan so much. so yeah. Anyway, you go.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:34)
Well, you know,

unfortunately or fortunately, depending on if you're selling or buying, you know, that's that's that's true for for most EVs. You know, is that, you know, the depreciation has been huge on those. You know, earlier this summer, you know, we bought a used two year old EV6, you know, for less than half of its original sticker price. And unfortunately, a week and a half ago, some guy ran a red light

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:40)
Yeah, if you're me, you're, yeah, fortunate.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:04)
hit the car, my wife was driving home, and ⁓ so that car is now totaled. But fortunately, our insurance company ⁓ has been very good about processing that very quickly and got us a payment this week. ⁓ And one option, if you ⁓ are ⁓ getting car insurance, if the insurance company offers you like a one better option on your insurance,

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:18)
Cool.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:34)
definitely consider taking it. Basically what it means is that whatever they value your car at, if it gets totaled, they will then give you extra to get one model year newer or something like that, one trim level up. ⁓ And I got that on our insurance from Liberty Mutual. It was like $1.20 a month extra. And so it paid us.

Nicole Wakelin (1:12:57)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:58)
Liberty, liberty, liberty.

Nicole Wakelin (1:13:00)
Liberty.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:03)
Paid out ⁓ more than what we paid on the other car that we had for three months. And so I went to Chicago yesterday and bought another yacht blue EV6, 2023 model with fewer miles on it and all wheel drive. And I only ended up paying an extra thousand dollars, less than a thousand dollars more than I paid for the other one, for the rear wheel drive one. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:13:24)
Wow.

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:27)
Thanks

There you go. So

get yourself a used ⁓ EV, put your life in danger by hoping that someone will run a red light, and then you'll get a better one.

Nicole Wakelin (1:13:38)
Hahaha!

⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:40)
Now you don't you don't want that last part But you can you can definitely get some fantastic deals on used EVs. So even though the the tax credits are gone There's still some amazing deals out there on electric vehicles and actually Nicole after you were talking about the lightning I looked it up and Ford is right now. I think through the end of the year is doing seventy five hundred dollar

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:42)
No, that's, I've been in.

Nicole Wakelin (1:13:42)
No, definitely not.

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:54)
yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:13:59)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:06)
incentives on the the lightning so

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:09)
Are they real?

Still, I thought they weren't doing that after all.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:11)
Well, no what what

they what the original plan the GM and Ford had was that they at the on September 30th they were gonna buy up any unsold EV inventory from their dealers for their for their financial arms or Ford credit and GM financial and then ⁓ They'd make the down payment on them and then claim the tax credit and they asked the IRS and I said is this okay and the IRS said yep You're good ⁓ And so that you know, then we're gonna lease the cars out

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:24)
Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:40)
after October 1st, ⁓ and factor in that tax credit into the lease payment. Well, a couple of members of Congress from one particular party decided, no, we don't like you doing that. You're skirting the rules. They were well within the rules. They checked, but they said, okay, fine. We don't want to get into a fight about this. so what they're doing is they're basically paying the $7,500 out of their pocket instead of the tax credit.

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:46)
Mm-hmm.

Gotcha.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:12)
Yeah. so if you're, know, if you're looking to buy a lightning or a Mach-E or a GM EV or, ⁓ or lots of other EVs, know, there's still some really good deals to be had out there, even though the tax credit is officially gone as of a couple of weeks ago.

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:12)
Dun dun dun.

I just need the deals to stick around until June when our lease is up.

Nicole Wakelin (1:15:34)
Is that your plan? That's it? That's all you need?

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:36)
That's the plan.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:37)
Well, mean, they

cut the prices on the model year 26, or IONIQ 5.

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:41)
I know all the

HMG stuff is probably going to be the same price, or actually cheaper because it doesn't have the tax credits. yeah, we're probably going to just buy a used EV at that point and stop leasing. That's the work. Especially with the HMGs, they're just like, all right, these are good cars. I don't really need to fight anymore.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:58)
So.

Yeah, I mean, you've been

driving one, you know what, four years now.

Roberto Baldwin (1:16:06)
Yeah, we had three years on the Kona and a year on the, over a year on the Ionic 5. thumbs up.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:14)
Yeah.

All right. So continuing on the theme of used EVs, one of the 13 or 14 or 15 Faraday Future FF 91s that were built and sold was on Bring a Trailer. Apparently there was one earlier this year that sold on Bring a Trailer for like $235,000.

Nicole Wakelin (1:16:44)
Wow.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:44)
⁓ This one only got bid up to ⁓ just over $100,000. Did not sell it, did not hit its reserve. It was $312,000 new.

Nicole Wakelin (1:16:52)
Yikes.

Roberto Baldwin (1:16:52)
So.

You know, this is the funniest thing. Remember in Faraday, everyone was like, oh, this isn't really a company. And they invited, I don't know if anyone else, they invited us to their Torrance headquarters. And it was very much like, hey, look at here. I'm like, there's no one here. They're like, yeah, but we have all the space for growth. I'm like, mm. Anyway, so they kept telling us all the things they were adding to the car. I'm like, this car's gonna cost like $300,000 because they're like, we're doing this all in-house. I'm like, do you not understand how suppliers work? And I guess it really was.

Nicole Wakelin (1:16:56)
Wow.

To you.

⁓ jeez.

Roberto Baldwin (1:17:25)
$300,000.

Nicole Wakelin (1:17:27)
Wow.

Roberto Baldwin (1:17:30)
I made it as a joke.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:34)
Yeah, apparently, let's see. Yeah, this one here that didn't sell was number four, VIN number four. Yeah, I like this line here from the Jalopnik story. The car in question is a 2023 Faraday Future FF91 2.0 Futurist Alliance Edition with only 900 miles on the odometer. It's also number four of only 300 that Faraday Future is definitely 100 % really for sure going to build as of earlier this year.

Only 16 had been delivered to paying to quote unquote paying customers.

Nicole Wakelin (1:18:04)
Definitely for sure.

Definitely for sure gonna build.

Roberto Baldwin (1:18:08)
Anyway, we're gonna build this.

This is the biggest boondoggle.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:11)
I mean, at this rate, you know, they've

been building these for, I don't know, three or four years now. So that's about three or four a year. So that's going to take them about a hundred years to sell all 300.

Roberto Baldwin (1:18:24)
They'll get there. They're gonna get there. I believe in them. I just don't understand how this is. This is such a front for something.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:33)
It's got to

Nicole Wakelin (1:18:34)
It's a front for something.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:36)
be a money laundering scheme.

Roberto Baldwin (1:18:38)
It's got to, mean, legally we're going to, guess we're going to say we, it's, it's, we can't say it is, but I don't think they have money. Yeah. I don't think they have money for lawyers, but just in case, ⁓ I just, this, this is, I mean, it's a very sketchy company. It's always been a very sketchy company. ⁓ I would, if you're buying a Faraday vehicle, I don't even know how to like explain. You would have to explain to me why you were doing this.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:44)
It sure seems like it might be a money laundering scheme.

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:07)
You need to explain yourself right now.

Roberto Baldwin (1:19:10)
Like if you're a billionaire and you're like, and a

lark, spent $300,000 on a car. Like buying a Faraday future as a billionaire is like buying a candy bar for me. So I'm like, all right, fine. But any other person, I'm like, for the rest of humanity.

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:22)
for the rest of humanity.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:26)
Alright.

Roberto Baldwin (1:19:26)
Like I

bought a cat head, like, hell, like, it's just a giant, you put it on, it's just a cat, I don't know why I bought it, I just thought it was funny. That's a billionaire buying a Faraday Future vehicle, yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:34)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:38)
That sounds reasonable. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:40)
Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:41)
So are there any features on your cars that you definitely don't want?

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:48)
events that you can't actually move.

Roberto Baldwin (1:19:50)
Yeah, that's pretty.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:51)
Okay,

yeah, that's definitely number one.

Roberto Baldwin (1:19:54)
events. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:56)
What other features?

Roberto Baldwin (1:19:58)
On my car I'm thinking... ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (1:20:00)
There's safety features that beep at

me too much. I would like things to beep at me less.

Roberto Baldwin (1:20:03)
You don't know what

they are. That's the weird thing. Like we had the Kona and everyone's gonna do this beep. I've never figured out what that beep was for. I don't know what I was doing. could never, I was like, wait. And so I start, I would look around. I'm like, is there another car near me? And am I doing something weird? Am I out of the lane? I don't know. I never figured out what it was.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:20:10)
Heh.

Nicole Wakelin (1:20:18)
I have that I did the car.

The expedition was periodically beeping at me and we're looking down like what? What like what is the problem? And I'm sure there was a problem, but I'm like, what? Good figured out. Mm

Roberto Baldwin (1:20:32)
It's the vehicle that cried wolf at some point. just

like, there's like, what, what are you, what are you telling me? Like give me a little something.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:20:40)
Well, Jason Torchinsky wrote a fun article for ⁓ the Utopian. ⁓ It's ⁓ based on a solid two weeks of research from the National Bureau of Economic Research's Economics of Transportation Conference, which does not, ⁓ no, actually that's what inspired him. ⁓ But it's ⁓ features that customers, seven least wanted car features according to the most exhaustive study ever undertaken.

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:09)
The most exhaustive. Nothing else has been this exhaustive, Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:12)
Apparently not. ⁓

So number one on the list, 90-10 split folding rear seats.

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:20)
There's 90 10 split folding rear seats. Is he making stuff up?

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:23)
I think it was just Jason having fun. I think it was less.

Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:26)
Jason? Jason would never make stuff up.

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:29)
my gosh.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:30)
How about a speedometer calibrated in leagues per day?

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:33)
You

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:36)
or

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:36)
system instead of windshield washer. like that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:39)
Yeah, ⁓

app controlled headrests with the subscription.

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:46)
Bifocal windshield. People might want that one, Jason.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:47)
The Glovebox Incinerator!

⁓ Or anti lock seat adjusters that you know

just randomly move back and forth. This is seats just move back and forth They won't lock into position actually this one here ⁓ TfL had bought earlier or last year had bought a used model s a 2013 model s ⁓ and they were doing some testing with it and During this six months or so that they had it at some point the driver's seat decided to basically start doing this just

randomly going back and forth. As you're driving, would start, the seat would start moving. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:22:24)
my gosh.

jeez.

Roberto Baldwin (1:22:29)
quality workmanship there.

Nicole Wakelin (1:22:30)
That's not great. That's not great.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:22:31)
No.

⁓ but, yeah, I'll have a link to this in the show notes. It's definitely worth a Jason's always fun to listen to, to read. ⁓ all right. ⁓ Cadillac CT four and CT five. ⁓ they're the current generation of those models is being discontinued after the 2026 model year, but the CT five at least will be coming back, for a new generation is going to be a redesigned one coming.

At some point, ⁓ we don't know exactly when, but yeah, and it will have an internal combustion engine. It will not be an EV.

Nicole Wakelin (1:23:08)
It will be resurrected.

Woohoo!

Roberto Baldwin (1:23:17)
I

Nicole Wakelin (1:23:20)
That's good.

Roberto Baldwin (1:23:20)
Will it have

a manual transmission? swear to God, if it doesn't have a manual transmission, why are we even talking about it?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:23:22)
⁓ Maybe.

Nicole Wakelin (1:23:23)
Don't go crazy, Robbie.

Again, explain yourself.

Roberto Baldwin (1:23:30)
That's you know what I mean? I just like that's the reason to get the CT five. You're like, okay,

it doesn't have a man. Like don't don't come at me with like, we're gonna bring the CT five back. And then it says, yeah, it's gonna be a gas engine. All right. Okay. Okay. Okay. It's gonna have a CVT. you sons of

Sam Abuelsamid (1:23:43)
What if they put the...

What if they put

the twin turbo V8 from the ⁓ Corvette CR1 into the new CT5? 1000 horsepower?

Nicole Wakelin (1:23:48)
Hahaha!

Roberto Baldwin (1:23:55)
Yeah, with a manual transmission. that's the real, that's the reason they get the CT5. Yes. If they come at me with like, let's go to 10 speed automatic. I don't want to talk to you. Cause it's such a niche vehicle within that lineup that you really need to have something that sets it apart from all the other sort of, you know, sports sedans out there. And that manual transmission is what does it.

Nicole Wakelin (1:24:03)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:05)
Ha

Nicole Wakelin (1:24:05)
He's gonna be cranky, really, really cranky.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. The CT five

black wing with a six speed manual. is something special because you can't, you can't even get a manual in a Corvette anymore.

Roberto Baldwin (1:24:21)
Yeah, it is.

Nicole Wakelin (1:24:24)
Sweet!

⁓

Roberto Baldwin (1:24:26)
Exactly. See? That's why. If you don't, yeah, I swear it was, I'm gonna be so angry. I'm gonna be so angry. They're like, look, we brought it back. We put a heavy in it.

Nicole Wakelin (1:24:27)
which just seems wrong, but okay.

Rob is getting fired up people.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:35)
Ha

All right, it's

to answer a couple of listener questions ⁓ First up There's Sean Whiterst. He just sent us a quick message ⁓ After we talked about 10th anniversary of dieselgate a couple weeks ago ⁓ He sent us a picture which I will include a link to in the show notes ⁓ of a License plate that he saw on a car. It was on a Volkswagen Touareg a couple years back

Nicole Wakelin (1:24:45)
Sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:25:08)
a twirig diesel and the it's a it's a it's new york license plate d1 r t y d z l dirty diesel

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:13)
can access it, Sam. Yes.

Roberto Baldwin (1:25:15)
I can't access this.

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:24)
⁓ I enjoyed it down as

you were telling me. D-I-R-T-Y. Cute. Clever. Dirty diesel.

Roberto Baldwin (1:25:28)
yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:25:29)
Yeah.

And there's also a sticker on the back window it says Das Polluten

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:37)
I mean that's brilliant, but it's also terrible.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:25:41)
I'm not going

to mention the other sticker that's on the back window though. ⁓ And then ⁓ Bill sent us a question here or a comment. It says, and this is your opportunity to defend yourself, Robbie. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:46)
I didn't see the picture.

Roberto Baldwin (1:25:57)
I don't

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:57)
⁓

Roberto Baldwin (1:25:57)
have to

defend myself. have to defend Bill's bladder. But please, go on.

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:58)
brace yourself.

Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:26:03)
I enjoy the podcast every week and appreciate what you guys do. But on the latest episode, I heard Robbie say, nobody drives more than 250 miles referring to the vehicle range. I may be

Roberto Baldwin (1:26:14)
I will say

that I prefaced that as no one in like my age. I did say when I was in my twenties, I drove like a thousand miles of that pulling over, but please go on.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:26:23)
I may be the exception, but I definitely drive further than that on road trips. I typically drive between 300 400 miles, then stop for gas, snacks, and a restroom break before taking a total of no more than 15 minutes. I then drive again somewhere between 300 and 400 miles again. I have been wanting to get an EV for a few years. For some EVs, the range for the first leg of the trip is okay if starting with a battery that is 100 % charged.

Getting 90 % range before stopping to recharge at 10 % means that my desired range is easily achievable in some EVs. Unfortunately, the range available for the second leg of the trip would be limited to only 70 % of the total range of the vehicle. DC fast charging from 10 to 80%. I think I will need an EV with a total range of 500 miles in order to get the desired range on the second leg. At a reasonable price point, I don't see any options. I'm hoping that new battery technology will provide for this higher range.

Even then I worry about battery degradation. I see that most warranties require a loss of more than 20 % to require a battery replacement under warranty. That means that my max range can drop to only 400 miles and the manufacturer would say that is normal. 70 % of that is not enough for my road trip driving style. I'm cautiously optimistic that I will be able to get an EV that satisfies my needs in the next five to eight years. I certainly hope so.

Roberto Baldwin (1:27:43)
So are you driving a diesel, Bill? Like what are you doing? 400 miles of range. 400, you're talking like six hours behind the wheel without pulling over.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:45)
Ha

Nicole Wakelin (1:27:52)
Where does, we don't know where Bill lives.

Maybe he lives in, what is it, Montana where you can drive 80 miles an hour. Isn't there one of those days where there's no speed limit? You could live someplace where he's just like flying. So he clocks that 400 miles in no time,

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:56)
It doesn't say.

Roberto Baldwin (1:28:01)
still a long time sitting in a car it's a long

I mean you can drive 70 miles an hour on California freeways which means you're driving 80 which means I'm driving 85 and even then I'm like I gotta pee it's literally I end up having to pull over to pee before the car needs to be charged so Bill has a mightier

Nicole Wakelin (1:28:10)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:28:15)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:28:25)
Phil has a mighty, mighty bladder is what he's saying, Robbie.

Roberto Baldwin (1:28:27)
is a mightier bladder than I. For now, who knows? ⁓ Or maybe

Bill doesn't drink as much liquid as I do, or maybe Bill doesn't see like a taco stand and wanna pull over.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:28:36)
Ha ha ha.

Nicole Wakelin (1:28:38)
Bill's eating fewer tacos.

Roberto Baldwin (1:28:41)
300,

400 miles.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:28:42)
So, I think the quote, nobody drives more than 250 miles, I think maybe taking that a little bit out of context, the majority of people, most people don't drive too, yeah, they don't drive that much without a break.

Nicole Wakelin (1:28:56)
Most people on an average day don't drive that much. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:29:00)
without pulling over.

Yeah, you wanna pull over. Also, that's so bad on your butt and your back. It's good to get out and stretch. Again, am, how old am I? 51. How old am I? I am 51. When I was in my 20s, I drove from Tehachapi to Kansas City and we were stuck in a snowstorm, which meant we couldn't pull over. So we were doing 25 miles an hour at some point.

Nicole Wakelin (1:29:12)
How old am I? Old enough to ask that question.

Roberto Baldwin (1:29:28)
and I was in the car for 10 hours straight, totally fine. You know why? Because I was like 22. I was 22. It had nothing to do with range. I was doing 25 miles an hour in a snowstorm because if we went quicker than, if we went faster than 25, the wheels would spin. So we just like cruise along.

Nicole Wakelin (1:29:36)
Yeah. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:29:36)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:29:51)
You

Sam Abuelsamid (1:29:51)
And

I mean, yesterday I drove 270 miles from West Chicago back to Ypsilanti in our new to us EV6. And I had to stop a couple of times for ⁓ a bathroom break and also to charge because the one downside, the dealer did great. mean, the whole in and out with buying this car, like 10 minutes. Didn't try to sell me on any extended warranties or anything else.

Nicole Wakelin (1:30:01)
Mm-hmm.

That's amazing.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:30:21)
had the paperwork ready, sign here, sign here, sign here, sign here, initial here, okay, here's the keys. And so yeah, so I was out of there shockingly fast, but the only downside is they had only charged it to 60%. So ⁓ I stopped in, well, I initially stopped in Michigan City, Indiana, ⁓ and went, grabbed a sandwich from Panera and then,

Roberto Baldwin (1:30:23)
that's the best.

Nicole Wakelin (1:30:28)
That's amazing.

Mwah-mwah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:30:37)
⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:30:50)
went across the street to the Electrify America to charge up and I couldn't, could not get the charger or the app or something to work properly and start the charge. And so I said, I'll screw it. Sorry. Excuse me. And, and then, so I continued on to Benton Harbor to the next EA station and it charged up fine there and was going like 200 and

Nicole Wakelin (1:30:59)
Mmm.

Wow, Sam, was...

Roberto Baldwin (1:31:06)
Yeah, we're pulling swears on the podcast now. I've been waiting forever for this.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:31:19)
Almost 240 kilowatts for a while there.

Roberto Baldwin (1:31:23)
240 mother effing kilowatts.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:31:25)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:31:26)
Yeah, MFR.

Roberto Baldwin (1:31:28)
Listen, I support Bill and his magical bladder that can not have to pee for five hours when sitting in the car. If you're going, if you're doing 80 miles an hour for 400 miles, that's still five hours. It's such a, it's such a long time.

Nicole Wakelin (1:31:32)
this magical platter.

It sounds like a-

in his magical bladder.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:31:40)
Yeah,

I brought ⁓ my Naxx adapter with me. I threw that in my backpack when I got on the train yesterday, ⁓ just in case I needed to stop at a supercharger. But then I realized, if I stop at a supercharger with this car, it's only going to charge at 84 kilowatts. So I'm just going to go for Electrify America and get my 230, 240 kilowatts.

Nicole Wakelin (1:31:59)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (1:31:59)
⁓

yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:32:04)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:32:05)
I just got an update in my IONIQ 5, a software update that now shows the Tesla supercharging stations. So now ⁓ I'm sure hopefully they're finally sending out those free adapters. ⁓ so yeah, I once, I think not the last road trip, the one before, I went 40 minutes before I had to pull over to pee.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:32:23)
haha

Nicole Wakelin (1:32:24)
Robbie is fixated on this now. He is just so baffled by Bill.

Roberto Baldwin (1:32:28)
I just,

here's, and it's, I drink so much liquid. I'm just always drinking. There are, look, I'm gonna lift up, are the three, there's like, there's a Coke can, there's a water glass, and there's a Red Bull, and there's a Red Bull can on my desk. So I think I just drank more liquids than Bill.

Nicole Wakelin (1:32:37)
Are you over hydrating, Robbie? He's got a diet coke. What's the last one? And a Red Bull. OK.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:32:47)
I

mean, two of those things that you had in your hand there are also loaded with lots of caffeine, which doesn't help. If you just drink water, it's not quite as bad. I mean, I'm 59 and I managed to go over two hours without a bathroom break yesterday. Yeah. Exactly.

Nicole Wakelin (1:32:53)
Caffeine, the diet coke, yep.

Roberto Baldwin (1:32:53)
Yeah, well yeah, I got diuretics. Yeah, and I drink a lot of water.

I mean, I can do it. I just don't see the point.

Like if I'm driving, I'm like, sometimes I'll be like, sometimes I'm like, okay, I gotta have to pee because I decided to have like a tea before I left. And then I like stopped and got like a giant diet Coke from like the 7-Eleven and now I'm driving and I'm like, ⁓ if I just keep going, I can make it to the, I can get to this one charging station because they have like tacos at this. So I can hold, so I can't hold it.

Nicole Wakelin (1:33:08)
Hmm.

This is all based on where he can get tacos and caffeine.

Roberto Baldwin (1:33:33)
But as yeah, literally my road trips up and down the state of California are essentially like, where are the taco stands? Where can I get tacos? I'm gonna fill my body with a lot of Diet Coke while I'm driving around.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:33:48)
Well, had a, this week I had a flight, a red eye flight back from San Francisco to Detroit. ⁓ and unfortunately, you know, cause it was a late booking. ⁓ I was stuck back in coach. ⁓ and I, but I did have a window seat, which means, yeah. So I just made sure I didn't, didn't really drink much of anything before while I was sitting for at least an hour while I was in the sky club before.

Nicole Wakelin (1:34:01)
Ugh.

That's the worst on a red eye.

⁓ He was nicely dehydrated when he got

on the flight.

Roberto Baldwin (1:34:14)
I'm doing that before ⁓ I'm flying, I think, coach to ⁓ New York from Las Vegas this week. It's a red eye. And I put myself next to, I usually sit aisle, but I put it next to the window so I could sleep, so I could lean on something, so I wouldn't be leaning on the poor person. And I have broad shoulders, so I'm just getting hit constantly by the train going up and down the aisles. But yeah, have to make sure I don't drink anything before. I'm like a child. I'm like a child.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:34:21)
Uh-huh.

Nicole Wakelin (1:34:22)
Ooh, that's a long trip too.

Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:34:34)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:34:44)
Bill, I'm a child. I don't know what to tell you. I eat like a child. I drink like a child.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:34:46)
I'm, I'm, I'm actually asleep for three and half hours

on a four hour flight.

Roberto Baldwin (1:34:50)
I have the bladder the size of a child probably. Who knows.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:34:56)
The joys of getting old.

Roberto Baldwin (1:34:58)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:01)
I know she's being very quiet in the call.

Roberto Baldwin (1:35:01)
We should do a,

there, should have a, I like the idea. I think there should be like an auto journalist like thing. We should do the bill challenge. We all get in the cars and we see how far, and we all have to drink like a 32 ounce, whatever, doesn't matter, ⁓ a big of Diet Coke. And then we all have to see how far we can drive before we have to pull over. You're not allowed to pee yourself or in a bowl or in a.

Nicole Wakelin (1:35:04)
just listening to you guys discuss your bladder issues.

You

Big gulp of Diet Coke, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:29)
in a bottle.

Roberto Baldwin (1:35:29)
or in a bottle yeah could we do the bill challenge

Nicole Wakelin (1:35:31)
Well, I wouldn't be doing that anyway, so there you go.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:36)
And

Roberto Baldwin (1:35:37)
⁓ I'm gonna I'm gonna

tell everybody this next week at all the car events I'm going to I'm gonna this guy Bill he drives 500 miles without having to pee. Bill's a superhero Do you think you do the build challenge?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:42)
Heh. Heh.

I could definitely not go that far without a break.

Roberto Baldwin (1:35:55)
What do you drive, Bill? I'm very curious about what you're driving.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:56)
Yeah, yeah, Bill,

right back to us. Tell us what you're driving.

Roberto Baldwin (1:36:00)
If he's driving like a nice luxury vehicle, that's a big difference.

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:00)
And where are you driving really fast?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:03)
And how much do

you drink before you get in the car or do you dehydrate yourself before you get in the

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:07)
Basically, Robbie and Sam need you to justify this feat that you are, that you're claiming to.

Roberto Baldwin (1:36:11)
You're like a superhero. This is like, is he part of the

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:12)
And how old are you, Bill? That's

Roberto Baldwin (1:36:15)
Avengers? At this point, Bill is an Avenger as far as I'm concerned.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:15)
so so here's here's questions for you,

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:19)
He's an Avenger. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:20)
So Bill, here are our

questions. What are you driving? Do you dehydrate before you get in the car? And how old are you? Right back to us for next week and let us know please.

Roberto Baldwin (1:36:28)
There you go, those are our questions. He's

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:32)
my god.

Roberto Baldwin (1:36:32)
gonna get back to us, he's like, I drink a super big gulp. I drive a 1994 Escort with shot and suspension, so my bladder's being jostled the entire time and I'm 75. I was like, damn it Bill. Making me question everything I've done in my life.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:35)
You

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:35)
I'm 75! I'm

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:40)
But you know what?

If he's driving this frequently for such long distances, he's probably managed to stretch out his bladder. So he's probably got extra capacity.

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:57)
my god, you guys stop.

Roberto Baldwin (1:36:57)
yes.

There's a lot of going on here. Build this. It's like.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:37:02)
All right. With that,

Nicole Wakelin (1:37:02)
Lord.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:37:05)
we'll talk to you next time. Bye.

Nicole Wakelin (1:37:06)
Bye!

Roberto Baldwin (1:37:06)
Alright,

bye.