Sam Abuelsamid (00:01)
This is episode 447 of Wheel Bearings. I am Sam Abuelsamid from Telemetry

Nicole (00:09)
And I am Nicole Wakelin from Test Miles and Top Speed.

Perry Stern (00:14)
And I'm Perry Stern doing freelance work for a number of places like US News, Capital One, JD Power, etc.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:22)
And,

Nicole (00:22)
He is our

stand-in because Robbie now sounds like Sam did a few weeks ago. Probably worse, yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:26)
Yeah, or perhaps even worse. Yeah, because he

Perry Stern (00:27)
Ha

Sam Abuelsamid (00:31)
was rehearsing with his bands over the weekend ⁓ and went into rehearsal with the sore throat and did not turn out well. And they have a big show on Friday night. So he's got no voice right now. Hopefully by Friday, he'll be able to sing again.

Nicole (00:44)
So fingers crossed. Yeah.

Perry Stern (00:47)
Ugh.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:51)
But in the meantime, we got you, Perry.

Nicole (00:51)
Poor Robbie. In the meantime.

Perry Stern (00:55)
So, you know, added bonus for all of us.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:57)
Yeah, well, and it's

good because last week all three of us were in New York for the New York Auto Show. And ⁓ unlike most North American auto shows of late, ⁓ actually there was actually a lot of stuff there. There was there was a bunch of new stuff. So.

Nicole (01:13)
This, was,

Perry Stern (01:13)
It was.

Nicole (01:14)
it was kind of cool because it didn't feel quite as frenetic as like old school auto shows. And we just go from conference to conference to conference and never stop. But you did have stuff to see. and I, I kind of think the biggest thing of the whole, I mean, that they pulled it off was Hyundai with their new concept where they told nobody, anything, no pictures, no, no, no hints, no nothing. Even the people who were hosted by handy were like, no,

Sam Abuelsamid (01:24)
Yeah.

Nicole (01:43)
Like they didn't tell anybody anything. was like, you couldn't, I had no idea. So if you wanted to know when they revealed it, you literally had to show up for their conference.

Perry Stern (01:51)
Which is how it used to be. mean, back in the late 90s, early 2000s, I'd go to the Detroit Auto Show and there'd be 50, 60 new cars debuted and we wouldn't know any of them until the wraps came off. Which was a lot more work, but it's exciting. You're right, it was almost like that was the star of the show, the fact that it was a surprise.

Nicole (02:06)
Mm-hmm.

Right. That they actually, and one of my favorite things was we were all trying to guess what it was. Like everybody, what do think it is? Is it a truck? Is it an SUV? Is a full size truck? Is it a midsize truck? Is it neat? Like nobody really knew. Nobody knew. And I loved that they were guessing by the journalists going because there are a couple of journalists that went, including Tim Estrdal from pickup. Yeah. And what does he pick up truck talk and SUV plus SUV pickup truck? I mess it up. Pickup truck talk.

Perry Stern (02:18)
Right now.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:30)
Yeah, Tim Estrdal was there.

Perry Stern (02:32)
Yeah, I did the same thing. Exactly.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:40)
Yeah. Pickup plus SUV

talk or something like that.

Nicole (02:42)
Yes. Anyway, he was there and we all look around, Tim's there. It's got to be a truck. They invited Tim. It was not a truck. It was an off-road SUV concept. So I'm like, you faked us out. It was. And they even kind of said, like, we sort of tried to really throw you guys off your game. It worked.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:54)
It was all part of the distraction.

Well, mean, even

right up to the last second, ⁓ Jose Munoz was there. He was doing the introductory part of the presentation. He was talking about kind of where Hyundai's business is right now and what's going on. And they put up this video and he mentioned, you know, we're doing a midsize pickup truck. so everybody then immediately, because the night before, you know, a bunch of us that were hosted by Hyundai.

Perry Stern (03:04)
Yeah, we didn't know.

Sam Abuelsamid (03:28)
We were at a dinner at Genesis House and I'd say it was probably about 50-50 between truck and off-roader. And he mentioned pick-up truck and everybody thought, okay, he's going to show us pick-up truck. And then they pulled the curtain up on this thing and it was an SUV. But we'll come back to that in a few minutes. That's what we call a teaser in the business. We'll come back to what Hyundai actually showed us. In the meantime,

Nicole (03:36)
yeah?

Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (03:58)
⁓ Nicole, what have you been driving?

Nicole (04:01)
I have been driving and I was saying this before the show. I'm so excited that I actually holding it up because I'm so happy because I know you're doing video that I actually have not quite a monroney, but almost better because it's got like a picture and everything I have. And I can read it. The twenty twenty six Dodge Durango SRT Hellcat jailbreak all wheel drive. That's a lot. No, the one that I drive and I'm driving and well, you know, you can't have everything.

Sam Abuelsamid (04:07)
Heh.

Perry Stern (04:20)
Thanks a lot.

Sam Abuelsamid (04:21)
but it's not the right color of the one that you're driving though.

Nicole (04:27)
This

one is bright blue. The one I have is sort of like a sparkly. It's not red. It's more like a burgundy. It's really pretty, but it does still have, and I think this one has a whole black hood on it. This one just, mine just has like the racing stripe that goes all the way across it. Um, that's kind of cool. this is right. Well, this one does right. 710 horsepower, 645 pound feet of torque.

Perry Stern (04:43)
because mid-size SUVs need racing stripes.

Sam Abuelsamid (04:46)
Well, when you got 710 supercharged horsepower, you do.

Perry Stern (04:47)
It does.

Nicole (04:54)
It's a 6.2 liter Hemi V8. It's stupid. It's stupid that they did this. It is ridiculous that they did this. This is a three row SUV with room for your whole family, nice and comfy. It's absolutely the most ridiculous thing ever and I love it. It's just perfect that they did it. There's no logical reason why this should have been built. It's just somebody showed up and said, you think we could do this? That's dumb. When do we start?

Like it's just, it's brilliant. I love it. I am very glad that it's still around. I'm glad that, you know, just a crazy powerful Dodge vehicles there. I know that the Durango is just aging something fierce, but I don't care. 710 horsepower, 645 pound, VT torque, three rows of seating. I'll take it just like it is. Um, and it has the drive modes. There's, think there's seven drive modes on this.

Seven, seven distinct drive modes. Thank you. Andy, cheat sheet, auto sport track, snow tow, eco and valet. And you want that valet so that your guy doesn't go cruising around having a good time while you're having dinner and trash your SUV. That's brilliant. But I drove it in auto and in sport, mostly sport. is so obnoxiously beautifully loud when you put it in sport. ⁓ even when you start it, when you first started,

It just sounds fantastic. In fact, I went to take the picture. That's why you know what color I had, Sam. must have seen the picture I put up today. I was playing and going, taking pictures and doing a couple of social media videos. I spent 45 minutes at the little park in Merrimack, New Hampshire, because everybody was coming. Hey, nice car. Can I take a look? Hey, nice car. Everybody was there at the dog park. Everybody needed to see the car. So they know what it is. People recognize a little hellcat on there and it means something to people.

it's really fun to drive. It's the power is ridiculous. The sound is ridiculous. It's comfortable. It has really heavily bolstered seats. And I was thinking like, you want that if you were actually going to track the car, which I guess you could, I don't know who's going to do that. I want to find the guy who does and just be like, why, but you could. So it has really heavy bolstering in the seats, but it's not that kind of bolstering. Like you get in a short low little sports car where it's so much so that when you sit down, you're like,

Like you can't get out, have to like lean forward and then get out because you're like, like it's holding you in. ⁓ It's kind of perfect for what it is. I really like this car. I've always liked the Durango. I think the one thing is that it's starting to get, it hasn't been changed in forever, but they're still selling this thing. Yeah. 2010.

Sam Abuelsamid (07:33)
It started production in 2010, the current generation.

Perry Stern (07:37)
That's

kind of a Stellantis way to go. mean, look at the 300C, the Charger, all of those were around as long, and they were still good.

Nicole (07:42)
Right?

And they're so

good. the thing is they're setting like sales records with this thing right now. It's doing so well. So I can see them saying like, we don't really need to do other stuff or selling it like as fast as we can make it. Let's just have it go and do its thing. So I thought, well, I didn't even look. my God. I'm not even looking because it's going to be, but you don't, you, yeah, it does go a certain number of miles per gallon. It's horrifically.

Perry Stern (07:59)
So how's your fuel economy?

Sam Abuelsamid (08:04)
It has some, not much, but it has some.

Perry Stern (08:11)
Yes, it's not quite gallons

Sam Abuelsamid (08:13)
gallons

per mile as the case may be.

Perry Stern (08:13)
per mile, but yeah.

Nicole (08:14)
It's horrifically low.

Yeah. Oh wait, I have the official numbers. Oh my gosh. God. City highway combined is 12, 17, 13. So this might be an expensive, exceptionally expensive car to drive right now where gas prices near me just crept over $4. I know that's cheap for a lot of people, but we don't see those kinds of gas prices. Just was 405 when I got home yesterday and I was kind of bummed like, there we go over $4.

Perry Stern (08:19)
Hahaha!

Nicole (08:42)
Top speed, though, look at this, 180 miles an hour. That's for the guy who's gonna track it. Zero to 60, 3.5 seconds. These are ridiculous numbers and fun for the whole thing. Can you imagine if your kids, and there's a launch control. You imagine you launch control with your kids in the back, whee! They would have so much fun. I love this. Now, the problem is it is not an inexpensive vehicle. So the base price on this,

Perry Stern (08:53)
That's fun for the whole family.

Nicole (09:10)
is $79,995 as equipped the one I had $95,740. That's a lot. That's a lot of money for an SUV. Now granted it truly is a performance SUV, but you're right up there in luxury car territory at $95,000. That's so I don't, but you got a Hellcat on the side of your door and it says jailbreak on the like

Perry Stern (09:18)
Wow.

Nicole (09:38)
like this sticker on the dashboard. So what more do you want for $95,000?

Perry Stern (09:41)
I mean jailbreak should be worth

at least a couple thousand just to have the sticker.

Nicole (09:45)
At least,

Sam Abuelsamid (09:45)
Yeah.

Nicole (09:46)
at least that much, easily. So, and it is nice to drive. It's fun on the highway. It's fun on the side roads. It handles really well. You put it in sport and it does tighten up. So even though it's a big vehicle, it's doesn't feel super top heavy. It actually is a pleasant SUV to drive, even if you're just cruising along responsibly and not trying to be like, yeah, hell cat. Yeah. So that's the, you can. So I did enjoy it. I, I,

Perry Stern (10:08)
You can do that?

Nicole (10:15)
I would buy it, but 95,000 is a little steep for my blood, but it's beautiful. I love it. Keep building weird stuff,

Sam Abuelsamid (10:28)
⁓ What about you Perry? you drive anything this week?

Perry Stern (10:31)
I did. I've got a Toyota Tundra four-wheel drive crew cab TRD Pro. ⁓ So this is their ⁓ high performance off-road truck designed to go at good speeds when the road is not good or basically when you don't have a road. ⁓ And I like it. It's somewhat subtle because it's this dark gray color, but it does have the big

brake calipers, the red ⁓ tow hooks. ⁓ Is it red tow hooks? I'm trying to remember now. ⁓ But it says TRD Pro in big letters on the back of it. it's ⁓ it's funny, it doesn't really look like it's raised up that high. ⁓ But ⁓ it's got the off-road tires, it's got the off-road suspension. And the coolest thing in this truck are the, I guess they're called the ISO dynamic seats.

Nicole (11:07)
think so.

Perry Stern (11:30)
So it does. Both front seats have their own independent suspension. And so you can adjust. There's little switches in the back of the seat. And they look really cool. They've got these two cross pieces that have little gauges on them. And you can actually change them from off-road to on-road. So when you're on the pavement, it's a little firmer. It doesn't move around as much. When you're off-road, you put it to off-road.

Nicole (11:30)
it has those crazy seeds.

Perry Stern (11:57)
and it absorbs all the bumps and you can actually rock around in the seat and it moves on its own. And so I've actually have it in off-road because I found that's actually more comfortable on any road. So I've just kind of left it there. And the interesting thing is there's a little pump you can actually change the pressure if you want. You can make it stiffer or make it looser. It's such a wild feature. I mean, it's not cheap. It's about $1,000 to add those seats on.

Nicole (12:09)
Really?

Is it worth

a thousand dollars, Perry?

Perry Stern (12:27)
Well, given the fact that the whole price of this truck is $82,000, $1,000 here and there is really not that much difference. But I took it, where I live, there's a lot of gravel roads that are now really bad shape after the winter. potholes that are, I don't know, four or five inches deep and they're big and there's a lot of them.

Sam Abuelsamid (12:29)
Ha

Nicole (12:36)
Okay, okay.

Perry Stern (12:53)
And I had taken a Bronco Sport out on some of my favorite roads a couple of weeks ago. I thought over 25 miles an hour, I thought the whole thing was going to shake loose. I mean, it was just, it was really bad roads. And so I took the Tundra on the same roads, 55 miles an hour, and it just, do, do, do, do smooth. I mean, it's, it's amazing how well between the seats and the truck suspension, ⁓ it is designed to handle roads like that. ⁓

And so if you lived in a place like that, where the roads are not paved and they're not good, mean, having something like this could improve your life dramatically. ⁓ And it's comfortable inside. It has red leather interior. In fact, I thought this was quite amusing. Yesterday, I looked outside and there was a female Cardinal sitting on top of the truck looking in the sunroof. I think it saw the red. Apparently so. ⁓

Nicole (13:43)
Got a little confused.

Perry Stern (13:48)
But it's nice to drive. on the freeway, it's surprisingly smooth and comfortable. It's got a ton of power. It's a hybrid. It's getting, I don't know, 14 or 15 miles per gallon right now. But a lot of that's been off road, or at least off pavement. And it's pretty enjoyable to drive. actually like the hybrid system. I would have expected that it would be, even on the freeway, it still wasn't getting much over 17, 18 miles per gallon.

⁓ The actual EPA numbers are 18 city, 20 highway, 19 combined. So it was about where it expects. And granted, it's a big truck and it's got off-road tires and all of that. But overall, good power and ⁓ really enjoyable to drive.

Sam Abuelsamid (14:42)
Yeah, I've never gotten over 18 with any of the current Tundras or Sequoias with the hybrid system. It's really not a particularly efficient powertrain, especially when you compare it to the F-150 hybrid, which you own one of those.

Perry Stern (14:59)
Yeah, I right now, I mean, a typical just city driving, we get between 23 and 24 miles per gallon in the F-150 hybrid. ⁓ And yeah, I've noticed, you know, just in a little bit of time I drove the Toyota, ⁓ it doesn't drive on electric near as much as the ⁓ F-150 does. I the F-150, you can actually cruise through town and it'll just sit there with zero RPMs where, you know, when I lift off the throttle on the Toyota, it will drop down to,

Sam Abuelsamid (15:07)
Yeah.

Perry Stern (15:29)
shut off the engine, you breathe on the throttle, the engine's back on.

Sam Abuelsamid (15:35)
Yeah, the Tundra is a lot heavier than the F-152. I think, I seem to recall it's about six or seven hundred pounds heavier. Might even be more than that.

Perry Stern (15:49)
That would make a difference.

Nicole (15:50)
Yes, it would.

Sam Abuelsamid (15:50)
Yeah,

I'm to find it here. Yeah, I mean, it's significantly heavier, which I'm sure contributes to the to the fuel economy difference, even though, you know, they make roughly pretty close to the same power and torque. But they're just, you know, that one is just significantly more efficient than the other. So, you know, if if you obviously we we know which choice you made when it came to buying a truck. But if you were if you were going to buy one

Perry Stern (16:19)
but I had different choices.

Sam Abuelsamid (16:21)
Yeah, if you're going to buy one today, would you go for a Tundra or an F-150?

Perry Stern (16:27)
I like the, mean, for what I do, know, for towing and for just driving as a daily driver, F-150, no question. ⁓ Because they're both very comfortable inside. They both have all the advanced safety features. you know, they're very comparable, but ⁓ I think that the hybrid system in the F-150 is better. The other thing is that, you know, which I use in the F-150 is it has a 7.2 kilowatt generator built in, ⁓ which still shocks me that no one else has done what Ford did.

And I can run 30 amps to my travel trailer and run air conditioning anywhere with my truck. ⁓ So it's an amazing game changer that no one seems to remember or take advantage of, which always surprises me. anyway, yeah, I would take the app for it.

Nicole (17:10)
You

Sam Abuelsamid (17:14)
Well,

yeah, mean, the Tundra is the only other hybrid full-size pickup truck that's available right now. ⁓ GM does do that on their electric trucks, but those sell in very small numbers. ⁓ But I suspect that probably when the next generation GM trucks come out, I think probably later this year they're gonna be introduced, ⁓ those...

Perry Stern (17:27)
Right.

So, for...

Sam Abuelsamid (17:41)
They will probably add a feature like that on those trucks, I would guess.

Perry Stern (17:46)
It certainly makes sense.

Sam Abuelsamid (17:47)
Yeah. All right. Well, anything else on the Tundra for me move on?

Perry Stern (17:55)
No, I think it is pricey. Like I said, $82,000 for a full-size truck. But everything's pricey.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:07)
Yeah.

Nicole (18:08)
Yeah, what's cheap anymore? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Perry Stern (18:09)
Ha ha ha ha

Sam Abuelsamid (18:12)
All right. Well, I had the Volkswagen Jetta Jetta GLI Autobahn edition, ⁓ which was ⁓ finished in what they call Monterey Blue. ⁓ And when my wife came home and she saw this thing in the driveway, she said, man, that car is so boring looking. And, know, you know, as a former Jetta driver, you know, she, you know.

Nicole (18:34)
Gosh. She's not wrong.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:42)
She has a right to her opinion. And to be honest, it's not a particularly exciting looking car, although you do get that nice slash of red in the front fascia there ⁓ on the GLI, know, around the grill. So that gives it a touch of something, but it's not an exciting car to look at, but it is actually quite pleasant to drive. So the Jetta GLI is basically the

a four-door sedan version of the GTI, of the Golf GTI. So, you know, if you are one of those people that for some reason thinks that having a trunk is better than having a hatchback, I don't know what's wrong with you, but, ⁓ you know, VW's got you covered on both fronts, you know, so you can get the Jetta GLI or the Golf GTI. ⁓ In the GLI, ⁓

Perry Stern (19:29)
You

Nicole (19:34)
You

Sam Abuelsamid (19:42)
It's got the two liter ⁓ EA888 four cylinder turbo engine, which is the same engine that Volkswagen currently uses on almost everything that they sell in North America. So it's 228 horsepower, 258 pounds feet of torque, which is actually pretty good. You know, it's it's more than enough for this car. ⁓ It's also paired. You can get it with a six speed manual transmission.

Unfortunately, the one I had had the seven speed DSG dual clutch automatic, ⁓ which actually most of the time is fine. The one, you know, and you know, when we had our Jetta TDI wagon, we had a DSG gearbox in there as well, but it was a six speed. ⁓ The seven speed, you know, doesn't, doesn't behave significantly differently, but the one thing that you will notice the most is just

accelerating off the line, ⁓ you sometimes get some lag before the clutch is engaged and it really kicks in. And so you step on the accelerator. And this is particularly noteworthy when you go to one of these from an EV. ⁓ We own an EV. When you get into an EV and you step on the accelerator, it just goes immediately. There's no waiting around.

With a regular automatic transmission, torque converter automatic transmission, you get a slight bit of lag, but not much. Modern automatics are pretty good about that. They're pretty responsive. And when you get into a dual clutch gearbox, it's like, okay, you step on it. yeah, it's most problematic when you're, for example, trying to make a left turn out of your neighborhood onto a busy street.

Perry Stern (21:27)
Stefan, go get some coffee and come back.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:39)
and you're trying to time it right because you know that there's going to be some lag there and you want to be able to get out there before the cars coming at you from the left are going to get to where you are and before the cars coming from the right get to where you are. You want to try and get that gap. That can be a little problematic to time just right. ⁓ But other than that, the gearbox works fine. It shifts smoothly, shifts quickly.

Nicole (21:59)
Hahaha

Sam Abuelsamid (22:07)
⁓ The engines nice, you know, it's got plenty of power play performance No real complaints with that. The the seats are quite comfortable ⁓ I've always liked VW seats. They've always been pretty good You know this one, you know has most of the options on it ⁓ it's It still has you know, some of the touch control stuff that VW put on a lot of their recent vehicles like for the

The temperature controls, you know, gotta drag your finger along the slider on the dashboard, which is a bit annoying. But there is a rotary volume control, so that's good. ⁓ It's got Android Auto and CarPlay support, all the usual stuff. The rear seat is roomy enough as well for adults, you know, so I can easily fit behind myself in the rear seat. ⁓ It's generally quite a pleasant car to drive. The handling, the ride is good.

Nicole (22:46)
Yay.

Sam Abuelsamid (23:03)
So the chassis dynamics of both the GLI and the GTI, ⁓ it's a fun car to drive once you get it off the line, once you get it moving.

The one that I had, as I said, was pretty loaded. There was actually no options on this thing. So for the Autobahn edition, yeah, that's the top of the line model. The total price on the Minroni, $35,670, which is quite a bit, I think, for a Jetta.

Nicole (23:42)
Okay.

Perry Stern (23:46)
You can get three of those for the price of a Durango Hellcat. ⁓ Everything is relative.

Sam Abuelsamid (23:49)
That's true, yeah.

Nicole (23:51)
You could! Worth noting! ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (23:56)
Yeah.

You guys want to take a guess at the destination charge on this one?

Nicole (24:01)
⁓ I'm gonna go $12.95.

Perry Stern (24:03)
I'm thinking 1500.

Sam Abuelsamid (24:05)
Nicole, you were off by just $20. was $12.75. Yeah, nice guess. The GLI with the DSG transmission is rated at 26 city, 35 highway, 29 combined. I was averaging about 27 with it. Mostly, I think probably because every time I went to Accelerate, I probably gave it more gas.

Perry Stern (24:08)
Wow.

Nicole (24:09)
Wow, that's new, woohoo, gummy.

Perry Stern (24:32)
Florida.

Sam Abuelsamid (24:33)
than it should have gotten just because I was trying to get it to get up and go. ⁓ But ⁓ other than that, it's a very nice car to drive. Like I say, not exciting in the least to look at, but very nice to drive. So if you want a GTI with a trunk, VW's got you covered.

Nicole (24:55)
I actually just pulled it up to see when you're talking about the pictures or what not being very exciting. And it is really just the red stripe. That's the only personality and the whole thing, but on the one that I happened to pull up, it was black with the red stripe. And for all the world, the little red piece on the bottom reminds me of when you see someone driving like a charger and they still have the little protectors on the like, yeah. I'm like, that doesn't give me the right vibe. That's literally what I thought when I looked at it.

Sam Abuelsamid (25:14)
⁓ yeah.

Perry Stern (25:15)
I

to take them off.

Sam Abuelsamid (25:22)
Yeah, and on the Autobahn, you know, you get the black wheels and everything. So it really makes it even more subtle to look at. And there's a couple of little splashes of red inside the cabin as well. On the steering wheel, there's a little splash of red on the bottom spoke of the steering wheel. There's a little red surround on ⁓ the shift lever. You get some red contrasting stitching on the seats.

Nicole (25:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (25:52)
So, you know, inside there's a little bit of some interesting stuff. But again, just, you know, not... I think it's good, you know, if what you want is a car that you can drive fairly swiftly ⁓ and not get noticed by, say, you know, law enforcement officials, things like that. Yeah. So that's the Jetta. All right, let's talk about some of the stuff we saw.

Perry Stern (26:12)
There's something to be said for that.

Sam Abuelsamid (26:22)
in New York. ⁓ So let's start with that Hyundai concept. you know, ahead of the show, I sent a note to ⁓ one of the folks at Hyundai, you because I was just trying to figure out, you know, where I could write something about this to figure out if there was anything green associated with this car. ⁓ Yeah. And I said, you know, OK, you you sold us, you know, nothing under embargo. Can you at least say if there's any like hybrid component or anything to it? Nope. said we're gone.

totally old school on this, not telling you anything. so, you know, what they showed us was a big four-wheel drive off-road SUV concept, you know, roughly, it seems like it's roughly about the size of a Ford Bronco Raptor, ⁓ big, big brawny fenders on it and everything. And a couple of days before the show, they released a teaser image that was just a big boulder hanging in the air.

Perry Stern (27:20)
I don't even

know if that would qualify as a teaser image.

Sam Abuelsamid (27:24)
Whatever, know, they said, they said, we're

Nicole (27:25)
It was so weird. It's just like floating boulder. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (27:28)
announcing something on Wednesday and here's a rock to look at. But, you know, it teased the name because it's called the boulder, Donde boulder.

Perry Stern (27:36)
I guess that's true.

Nicole (27:39)
It did tease the name, technically.

Perry Stern (27:41)
Of

I saw it and I thought it was a rock. never, didn't, boulder didn't occur to me till after I saw the boulder concept.

Nicole (27:45)
I know, I thought I'm like, what is this big rock?

It was one of those like, oh, that makes sense.

Perry Stern (27:54)
Yeah, exactly,

exactly.

Sam Abuelsamid (27:57)
So what did you think of the boulder?

Nicole (27:59)
I thought it was really great. I thought it looked fantastic. I mean, it's a concept. So at this moment, they're not building it. They haven't confirmed they're building it. ⁓ I think so too. talking to them, we did an interview with a designer Sang Yip Lee. I think I'm saying his name, Sang Yip Lee, correctly. He was so enthusiastic about it and he was really positive about it. He said, well, a lot is going to depend on what people think about it.

Sam Abuelsamid (28:11)
They're gonna build it.

Perry Stern (28:13)
I think so.

Sam Abuelsamid (28:19)
saying yeah please.

Nicole (28:29)
And everybody thought it looked pretty cool. I didn't really hear anybody saying they didn't like the look of it. My favorite part of the entire thing was when he got really excited talking about it, you know, designers get in like, OK, look at this little curve and look at this little line and look at this little flat sheet metal. And he's like, come around here. We're like at a rear three quarter, which is like on the corner of a car for people don't know what that means. Like kind of looking at the taillights. It's like if you come up to the top here, see how it's rounded and it kind of comes down. It's like a 1950s refrigerator. It's like, huh?

Perry Stern (28:57)
Is that really what

you want in the car?

Nicole (28:59)
I can see that now once he said that, think, and the handles are sort of the dual handles for the tailgate are sort of hidden into it. So again, he's like, it was like that fridge refrigerator. And I thought, okay, I can just see you trying to pitch this. I'm going to make this off road SUV. It's going to look like a fridge. Everyone going, what? It's a retro fridge. Yeah.

Perry Stern (29:15)
It's a retro fridge.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:16)
Well, and it is all finished in brushed metal.

It's not painted, so it's just brushed metal. So it does kind of have that stainless steel refrigerator feel to it.

Nicole (29:27)
Right.

Perry Stern (29:28)
And the handles

as well. mean, the side handles, it's like a bar that you grab. ⁓ Like you could see a big door handle on a fridge, I suppose. ⁓ But ⁓ of course, now I can't unsee it looking like a fridge. ⁓ But I mean, think I love the big wheels on it, the short overhangs. It looks like it would be able to go anywhere if it actually had an engine in.

Nicole (29:38)
Mm-hmm.

You're welcome. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (29:54)
Yeah, it's on 37 inch wheels and tires.

Perry Stern (29:57)
But the very first thing I thought when I saw it, though, was the original Bronco concept from early 2000s. It's like 2003 or 2004. Because that was also silver, almost the same color. And the grills are different, but the same basic shape. But it was funny, because when Bronco, it was. And when Ford showed that, it's like, oh, we're going to build the Bronco. And it was how many years later? 20 years? Almost 20 years later that they actually built it.

Nicole (30:06)
Mmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:15)
similar vibe to it.

Nicole (30:24)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:25)
Yeah, it was about to almost 20

years.

Perry Stern (30:28)
Yeah, so hopefully Hyundai won't take 20 years to build a production version of this. ⁓

Nicole (30:33)
I feel like

it's going to be sooner than that.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:36)
Well, did announce that they're going to, actually ⁓ Jose Munoz, the CEO, said by 2030, Hyundai is going to release 36 new ⁓ or updated vehicles in North America. So that's a lot more vehicles than they have in the lineup right now.

Perry Stern (30:36)
Yeah, well they've

Sam Abuelsamid (31:02)
And some of that is going to be variations, like N models and things like that. But we know that they're doing a mid-size pickup, which is coming probably around 28, 29, which means that they're tooling up for a body-on-frame assembly line. And this is going to be based on the same platform as that pickup.

They didn't tell us anything about powertrain or anything. As far as we know, the vehicle we saw does not even have a powertrain. ⁓ But looking underneath, you could see it had a solid rear axle. was body on frame. Some interesting design details to this thing too. They mentioned, ⁓ I forget exactly, think softened pixels. And when you look at the tail lights,

Nicole (31:56)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (32:00)
you know, in the Ionix and some of the other models, you know, we've seen this pixel lighting theme with these little tiny pixels, you know, these arrays of little pixels making up the lights. On this one, it's kind of like you've got, it's kind of like the Duplo of pixels, you know, where you've got big blocky pixels for the tail lights and for the headlights, which I thought was really cool. And then on the tailgate, ⁓ on both sides of the tailgate, there's

There's theoretically a handle there. I don't know if there actually is on this particular concept, but it says pull.

Nicole (32:34)
There was, like

there was a hand actually you could fit, cause when I was talking to him, moved the stanchions and let us actually get up close. And there is a handle, like when you slide your hand back there, it's probably like, I don't know, two or three inches behind there that your hand goes that you could pull the handle out. We didn't open it, but yeah, there are little handles that are hidden in there.

Sam Abuelsamid (32:38)
Okay.

But, you so you've got that on both sides, which means they've got some sort of mechanism so it can hinge either to the left or to the right, you know, presumably depending on where you are. You know, so I guess, you know, if you're in a city, you're parked at the curb, you know, you want to open it up to the left, you can do that. Or if you're somewhere else, you want to open it up to the right, you can do that as well. And then you've got the safari windows above the side doors, kind of like on a...

Perry Stern (32:56)
Which is really cool, yeah.

Nicole (33:01)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (33:22)
older Land Rover Discovery. So that's kind of a neat touch. So a of interesting design details on this thing.

Perry Stern (33:32)
I like the tow hooks integrated into the bumper too, both front and back. They almost looks like the bumper was put on and then they strapped it in with those tow hooks. ⁓ It just looks solid. If they were to come out with something that looks exactly like that, I don't think it would have any trouble selling.

Sam Abuelsamid (33:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, mean it looks like it's just carved out of a giant block of aluminum.

Nicole (33:51)
No.

It looks really cool. And if the pricing is cheaper than like what you get for comparable other cars, SUVs, that's going to make a huge difference too. know, Hyundai does a good job with their pricing. So, and they have a really good warranty. So it gives them some really strong competition to the other guys.

Perry Stern (34:03)
Typically.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:15)
Yeah, I could see them. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if they if they did this and put ⁓ an EREV drivetrain in it, you know, had it with a gas, gas power train and then also with with an EREV ⁓ as an option. Yeah. And I think that, you know, that would be really interesting because, you know, a vehicle like this, you know, no matter what gas power train you put in, not going to get great fuel economy. But if you if you made it in EREV, it could actually be pretty cool.

Nicole (34:40)
Yeah.

Perry Stern (34:44)
It interesting, just looking at it, there is no fuel filler or port of any kind on either side of the car. I just noticed, I had, I know, I know, but I just. Well, I thought it was also interesting that they gave it a rear differential, ⁓ but not a front one. ⁓ And so, you know, I know it's all fake and, know, it's just the design study anyway, but.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:51)
Yeah.

Nicole (34:52)
It's a concept, Perry. The fuel is also a concept at this point. ⁓

Perry Stern (35:13)
It just seemed odd that this design study technically is rear wheel drive.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:19)
Well, it's probably ⁓ front wheel drive, or I should say four wheel drive, but with an independent front suspension. So the rear differential is probably mounted up a little bit higher to give it some more ground clearance.

Perry Stern (35:32)
Okay, I'll give you that. Either that or the electric motors powering the front wheels and the gasons driving the rear wheels. So many options when it's a concept vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:38)
That's also a possibility. Yeah.

Nicole (35:40)
That's a possibility too.

many possibilities.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:46)
Anything is possible. ⁓ All right. ⁓ So let's move on. ⁓ we are on Hyundai's corporate cousins at Kia had a press conference and they showed two new vehicles, both of which have been sort of seen before. But this is the first time they've been seen in North America and they're both coming to the U.S. So first ⁓ up.

was the new 2027 Seltos, the second generation Seltos. And what did you think of the Seltos?

Nicole (36:22)
Like I didn't realize so I wasn't there when they showed it officially and I didn't realize it was a cell toast when I walked by it. It looks so different in the front. Like, what is that? I'm like that, that's the cell toast. Like they made it look so different. It doesn't even remotely resemble what it was before.

Perry Stern (36:23)
It's like a...

It's like a baby Telluride.

Nicole (36:41)
like a baby Telluride. That's why I was confused. I'm like, this looks, what is this? This is not a Telluride. This is too small. What? What am I looking at?

Sam Abuelsamid (36:41)
Yeah, very much so.

Perry Stern (36:43)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:49)
It's

kind of, the design is kind of a mix of Telluride and EV9. The teaser image that they showed the week before the show was a front view, straight on front view, and it just had the running lamps on it. It's got the two vertical running lamps like the new Telluride has. But then when you look at it from the side, the side is much more EV9, you know, some creases in the body work.

and like the same sort of roof line as the EV9, ⁓ but obviously a lot smaller. And it's slightly larger. It's about two and a half inches longer than the current generation Seltos, ⁓ but ⁓ it's still a fairly compact crossover. And it's gonna have two ⁓ gas power trains, the same ones that they have today with the two liter naturally aspirated.

and the 1.6 liter turbo. And then ⁓ later in the year, they're going to launch a hybrid version as well. So it'll be the first time that there's a hybrid version of the Seltos.

Nicole (37:57)
That'll be neat too.

Perry Stern (37:58)
Which is cool. I

think, and that will be all wheel drive. They said it's the first electric all wheel drive system they've ever offered ⁓ with the hybrid. Right, right.

Sam Abuelsamid (38:04)
Yeah, first one with a rear e-Axle. So they've

had hybrids but with a mechanical driveshaft driving the rear wheel.

Perry Stern (38:13)
Right,

so this will be just the motors driving the rear wheels, I

Sam Abuelsamid (38:19)
Yeah, yeah,

same way Toyota does it on the Raptor.

Perry Stern (38:25)
Right, right. But I thought it was interesting that the tail lights almost look a little K4. ⁓ That verticals, know, it's almost like, you at night I could see them being almost the same. ⁓ But...

Sam Abuelsamid (38:35)
Yeah.

Yeah, there's elements

of a bunch of different current Kia models in there.

Perry Stern (38:45)
But I thought the most interesting thing was the headlights are completely integrated into the grill. In fact, I tried to turn them on just so I could even see where they come through. ⁓ But if you get close, it's like the grill looks like it goes all the way to the edges except that the headlights are built into it, ⁓ which I thought was kind of a cool feature. And then interior, it's like the rest of the newer models like the Telluride where it gets the

It gets rid of the dual purpose display, which has always driven me crazy, where you have to toggle between vent and audio and I hate that. So that's gone. That's gone. In fact, Kia folks, think, weren't big fans of it either, at least the US folks. ⁓ And so, yeah, think that it's going to be, it's really has a nice interior. I think it's going to do well.

Nicole (39:24)
I hate it too.

Sam Abuelsamid (39:41)
Yeah, there's a lot of elements that find in other current generation Kia's. So get the same basic display setup that you get in the EV9 and in the Telluride and I think the K4 as well, where you've got a single sheet of glass. There's two 12.3 inch displays. And then you got that little five inch display in between for some of the climate control stuff that is completely hidden behind the steering wheel.

Perry Stern (39:57)
K4 has it,

Yes, that does bug me. ⁓ I mean, it's not something you have to access or do anything with much, but it still bugs me that you can't see it. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (40:21)
⁓ And you know, but then you do at least get physical controls for temperature and fan speed ⁓ And then you know some other stuff and the little volume roller in the middle of the dash there and of course manual vents Always a good thing ⁓ I Sat in the back seat. I set the driver's seat for my position and then I got in the back seat I had plenty of room back there. I had several inches of knee room. I had enough headroom in the back ⁓

Perry Stern (40:22)
Boom.

Nicole (40:37)
Yay.

Sam Abuelsamid (40:51)
just plenty of cargo space in the back it looks like so I think this could be a very practical vehicle starting price will probably be similar to where the current Celtos is around the current Celtos starts just under 25 grand so it'll probably be around 25-26 grand to start ⁓ the hybrid will probably run I'm guessing low 30s

Perry Stern (41:17)
That makes sense.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:18)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole (41:19)
It'll be a good price. People will be

happy about it. They finally are paying attention to it. They're not, it's not the stepchild no one's looking at.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:26)
Yeah,

and it's a sharp looking little crossover.

Perry Stern (41:27)
Exactly. And

it fits nicely with the lineup, just with the styling and everything.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:32)
⁓ And then next to that was the EV3, which I think we saw that they have the EV3 at the show last year. I know they talked about it. I think they. Well, they had an EV4, but I think they also had an EV3 there, but maybe I'm. I can't remember. I know they talked last year, they talked about the plan was to launch the EV4.

Perry Stern (41:44)
I it was an EV4 last year that they had, but.

Nicole (41:52)
don't remember that from last year, but that's possible.

Perry Stern (41:53)
I don't think I'd seen it before,

but.

Sam Abuelsamid (42:02)
It was supposed to launch in the fall of 2025. And then the EV3 was supposed to come out in the first half of 2026. Well, the EV4 has been canceled for the North American or for the US market. You can actually buy the EV4 in Canada and in Mexico, but you can't get it in the US because we can't have nice things. the EV3

Nicole (42:26)
Hahaha! ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (42:30)
⁓ They kept the EV3 because it's more crossover type body. ⁓ Looking at the dimensions of it, it's slightly smaller than the Seltos. It's about 2.5 inches shorter than the Seltos. It sits a little bit lower, but it's got that crossover-ish shape to it. ⁓

It's built on a 400 volt version of the EGMP architecture. So it doesn't charge quite as fast as like an EV6 or EV9. But still, it'll do 10 to 80 % in about 25 to 30 minutes. Yeah. And this one is coming out later this year. They're not talking pricing yet. But when I talked to a couple of people from Kia,

Perry Stern (43:14)
so still reasonably quick.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:27)
you know, but what their targets are, know, what are they benchmarking for this thing? You know, they specifically talked about Bolt and Leaf, you know, which both start at $30,000. And, you know, the EV3 is going to be available with two battery sizes. There's a 54 kilowatt hour battery and a 74 or 75 kilowatt hour battery. The smaller battery is supposed to give about 220 miles of range, and the larger battery will give ⁓

Perry Stern (43:38)
that makes sense.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:55)
up to 320 miles of ⁓ Front wheel drive or all wheel drive, I think it's about 288ish horsepower with all wheel drive, about 200 horsepower with front drive. ⁓ I like the look of this thing. I think it's pretty cool.

Perry Stern (44:16)
It's a nice size. And with the, I guess it's the GT that gets 288 horsepower with a sport tuned suspension. And, you know, that could be, it could be a pretty entertaining little vehicle to drive.

Nicole (44:16)
I think, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (44:23)
Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, Mike, I believe that this is going to replace the Nero in the lineup. I think the Nero is going to go away because it's not a huge seller. I think this is going to replace that.

Perry Stern (44:43)
And that makes sense because I think otherwise they'd be competing against each other anyway. I mean, they're too close together.

Sam Abuelsamid (44:48)
Yeah.

All right. Another ⁓ all new vehicle that debuted at the auto show last week ⁓ was the 2027 Volkswagen Atlas, the second generation of the Atlas. ⁓ And what do you think about this one?

Nicole (45:15)
It's more exciting than the Jetta? I mean, I think... Go ahead.

Sam Abuelsamid (45:17)
There's a rousing endorsement.

Perry Stern (45:23)
I mean, they- they-

I was going say, they made it little more modern looking, but it still looks like an atlas. It's never been super exciting, but I don't know that that was their goal.

Nicole (45:39)
No, I mean they added some neat stuff. mean it definitely looks, like you said, the style update is cool. It looks better than it did. It has nice, like the lighting is fabulous inside and out. I really like how they did that. It's got some neat like stuff along the dash, along the doors, like the way they've done the lights. They've gotten really into the lighting, but I'm, you know, they added some more features too compared to what they had before. You know, they added,

The like the infotainment is upgraded. There's nappa leather. There's seats like they've added all the bells and whistles to make it better and to make it more appealing. It's still not like this super compelling vehicle to me, though, but it never really has been. I think it's nice steps forward, but I don't listen like, wow. I don't know. don't know. What about you, Sam or to Perry, either one of you?

Perry Stern (46:27)
And that was kind of, I was just going to say,

I that's kind of how it was. I remember when the first Atlas came out, ⁓ it was, it was fine. It was, it's bigger than some of the other models in that class. ⁓ So a little bit more seat room, but ⁓ it's just, it's, it's, I wouldn't say boring. It's just doesn't stand out ahead of, you know, there's, there's nothing I can think of that the Atlas is the one for.

that, you know, that it's not the sporty one. It's not the, I don't know.

Nicole (47:02)
There's just so many, there's such competition in this segment. There's so many. And I guess putting the Atlas in there gives them that vehicle so that they fill it that niche for people who are Volkswagen loyalists. But I don't know that it would, I don't know, would this draw me in if I wasn't just already a hardcore Volkswagen fan or just wanted to move up from my boring Jetta to something else or my tiny little, know, tiny little car to something bigger and family friendly.

I don't know that it would. Who do think the person is that's gonna get this?

Sam Abuelsamid (47:40)
probably the same people who buy the current Atlas. People who like VWs but want something bigger. I think the front end is definitely more interesting looking than before. The headlights and kind of the split grill, you got a couple of different sections of body color separated by grill around it. the interior, looking at the interior, it does still have the same

Nicole (47:43)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Perry Stern (47:52)
Especially those headlights. Those headlights are cool.

Nicole (47:53)
The lights are

fabulous. The lights really do look good.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:10)
infotainment setup that you find on like the ID4 and the ID buzz where it's got the touch sliders across the bottom of the screen, which for temperature and volume, which is not great. Obviously, this one was too far along before Thomas Schaefer, the CEO of Volkswagen decided, no, we got to have buttons and switches from now on. One interesting detail I did notice from ⁓ looking at the photo of the interior.

Nicole (48:20)
BLEH.

Perry Stern (48:34)
Oops.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:39)
that I hadn't noticed before. ⁓ It's got, there's two circular pads on the center console there, ⁓ in the bin there. It's got two wireless, ⁓ magnetic wireless charging pads. They're Qi2 charging pads for your phone. So if you've got, if you have an iPhone or if you've got ⁓ any other phone that's got ⁓ either built-in magnets like the current Google Pixel or ⁓ you've got a magnetic case,

Nicole (48:56)
nice.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:08)
you can just pop it on there and it'll charge and it's not going to fall off for you. So that's nice. So far Nissan is the first one that's introduced those in cars ⁓ on the Murano and I think on the Rogue. They've got those and on the Pathfinder refresh. ⁓ But ⁓ now VW has got them on this new Atlas as well. So hopefully we'll start seeing those on other new vehicles as they start coming to market in the next year or so.

Perry Stern (49:27)
Pathfinder, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:39)
Power train wise, they're launching with just another variant of the 2.0-liter four-cylinder turbo. This one producing 282 horsepower, 258 pounds-feet of torque. So it's 13 more horsepower than the old Atlas. And I actually like driving the Atlas. Again, like you said, it was not real exciting to look at, but it...

It was really nice to drive. We had one for Operation Frodo in December and I spent a day driving it with some rescue dogs and it was actually one of the best cars we had for that trip in terms of just in terms of driving. Driving long distances on the highway, very comfortable, very smooth, ⁓ good wind resistance. ⁓ We had crosswinds. So it was nice to drive. ⁓

And let's see what else. they have a one year. It comes with a one year trial subscription to premium speech. Volkswagen's generative AI enabled voice assistant helps with natural language tasks. boy, will that be fun.

Perry Stern (50:47)
Okay.

Nicole (50:48)
Hahaha!

Perry Stern (50:50)
Yeah, I'm already thinking of trying to find the off switch. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (50:55)
They have promised that they're going to add a hybrid as a mid-cycle refresh for this Atlas. So, yeah, that's probably two, three years away, unfortunately. It'd be nice to have one at launch, but better late than never, I guess.

⁓ All right. And then there was another brand new three row SUV that was launched. ⁓ And that was the Subaru getaway. Perry, think you've probably seen more of this thing than either of us have.

Perry Stern (51:31)
Yeah, I went and spent a day crawling through it and taking pictures of it. it's interesting because this is the, you know, it's on the same platform as the Toyota Highlander that just recently was introduced, which is also all electric. ⁓ In fact, pretty much every Subaru electric has a Toyota twin. ⁓ But interestingly, this one has more power than its Toyota partner. So I think the Toyota is what, 370?

No, 340.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:01)
⁓ three thirty

eight for the all-wheel drive in to twenty one for the front wheel drive

Perry Stern (52:06)
where the Subaru is going to come standard with a dual motor 420 horsepower system. So they're saying, you know, 0-60 in about five seconds, which, you know, for a three-row SUV, electric or not, is still not bad. But I like the style of it. I think it's, it doesn't have all the cladding of all of their other cars, which gives it a bit of a cleaner look. You know, it still has the whole Toyota system inside, but it's instead of the

the same dashboard that's in the trail seeker in the Uncharted and in Solterra where you have to look above the steering wheel to see the gauges, this one is a more normal setup. ⁓ So it has the newer system where it's got a digital display, but you look at it through the steering wheel like a normal car. ⁓ And it has the big touchscreen display, which is a nice improvement over the previous one as well, which is introduced. It's a Toyota system, but it's on the new Toyota Highlander as well. ⁓

does get the dual phone chargers. ⁓ It's got, I think comes standard with six passenger, but you have optional seven passenger seating. I got in the third row and it's a little short on leg room, but width wise, it actually is pretty comfortable. And so if you can convince the people sitting in front of you to slide their seats forward, do you actually have a decent amount of space back there? So I think it's...

It's not, it's a little bit bigger than the Ascent, ⁓ interior and exterior. ⁓ It doesn't sound like the Ascent is going anywhere, at least in the near future. It's still, but who knows? don't, I was concerned that they were gonna come out with this, call it the Ascent and say goodbye to the Ascent, which that apparently is not gonna be the case. ⁓ So yeah, it's supposed to be ⁓ in showrooms later this year and...

Nicole (53:51)
no.

Perry Stern (54:01)
Later on, they will have a more standard battery, which will be obviously less expensive with a lower range. I think they're saying for this one, the range they're expecting is they're just saying more than 300 miles. and charging, it's still max of 150 kilowatts. So 10 to 80 % in about a half hour.

Nicole (54:27)
I had a chance to look at this one too. I went to the preview out in California. got to see it. I had a chance to sort of check it out, crawl over it. And I agree with you, Perry, about space and stuff. And I think it's a good vehicle. I wonder how well an EV is gonna... You just don't know with EVs right now. There's such a giant question mark in terms of the reception, regardless of how good they are, you know, how good or bad, the range, the price, whatever. People are so skittish.

Perry Stern (54:46)
True.

Nicole (54:57)
about EVs these days.

Perry Stern (55:00)
It's also interesting that Subaru is, you know, I wouldn't say flooding the market, but you know, in the last 12 months, this is the third new EV that they're going to come out with, which is really interesting as every other manufacturer or not. Well, most other manufacturers seem to be pulling back from EVs altogether. And so it's, it will be interesting to see, I mean, and they granted they don't compete against each other. They do compete against Toyota and Toyota is always going to

Nicole (55:11)
Right?

Great.

Perry Stern (55:30)
win that battle because there's, Toyota's gonna sell more of everything. They have more ⁓ showrooms and it's just the way it is. And this one will be built in Kentucky, I believe. ⁓

Nicole (55:35)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:44)
Yeah,

it's gonna be built in Georgetown, Kentucky, alongside the Toyota Highlander and whatever they call the Lexus version of this.

Perry Stern (55:49)
Highlander.

⁓ right. Still have to come, I guess.

Nicole (55:57)
Sussacam, wait and see.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:59)
Yeah,

I'm guessing we'll probably see that in May when they do the drive for the ES. ⁓ yeah, but it's interesting, for a company like Toyota that was so kind of anti-EV, ⁓ by the end of this year, they will have seven EVs in their lineup. And Subaru will have four. Yeah.

Perry Stern (56:06)
⁓ right.

And they've come really quickly.

Nicole (56:26)
like

boom, yeah, one right after the other. It's like, yeah. It feels like they should have done this a little sooner or not done it. I don't know.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:33)
Well, actually, think

it's probably, ⁓ given what they had to start with, it's probably better that they didn't do it sooner. You know, they launched the BZ-4X and the Soltera. They were very underwhelming. had terrible charging, mediocre range. They were kind of pricey. ⁓ And they listened to the complaints. They went back and completely re-engineered everything, all the important stuff anyway, and made them a lot more efficient, a lot faster charging.

Nicole (56:39)
Mmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:03)
They lowered the prices and now they're using that hardware set to build all these other vehicles. So you've got basically two different motors, a couple of different batteries that they're putting into ⁓ everything from the BZ and Soltera to the Uncharted and CHR, the BZ Woodland and Trail Seeker, now the Highlander and the ⁓

The getaway ⁓ and then the Lexus ES is going to have the same kind of components in there and the Lexus 3-row is going to have those components in there. So they're leveraging a lot of component sharing to keep their costs down. And I think that that's a good thing. Rather than rush them out when they had something that wasn't great to begin with, they waited, got it right first and then

Perry Stern (57:53)
It's a smart move.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:02)
rolled out all these other variations. And if you look at the sales numbers, especially the Q1 sales numbers, ⁓ the sales for the BZ and the Soltera ⁓ in the first quarter were up significantly over the first quarter of 2025. And particularly in March, the March sales numbers were way up. Gee, I wonder what happened in March that could have caused EV sales to go up. Hmm, yeah.

Perry Stern (58:19)
Interesting.

Yeah.

Nicole (58:28)
Hmm, curious.

Perry Stern (58:30)
I think the most interesting thing though, yeah, yeah. I think the most interesting thing is though that this all started what, three years ago? I mean, the first Solterra was a 23. This is only 26. I mean, this is a lot of advancement in a very short time, which is unusual in this industry. know, that, mean, Subaru has completely changed their outlook. Ooh, I wonder if that sounds like a good name for a Subaru.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:30)
Funny, right when gas prices went up, those EV sales started climbing.

Nicole (58:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:00)
Well, they got out back.

Nicole (59:01)
The outlook,

super outlook.

Perry Stern (59:02)
They got out back. My daughter always wanted to know why that wasn't called the out front.

Nicole (59:08)
Right. Pallid complaint.

Perry Stern (59:08)
Yeah, yeah

⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (59:12)
Speaking of which,

I've seen two outbacks in my neighborhood in the past week, the new ones. Yeah.

Perry Stern (59:17)
The new one. I'm starting

to see them around. they're ⁓ out there. It is funny to look at the old one and the old one looks really old now compared to the new one. And it's not been gone that long. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:23)
Yeah, there it

Nicole (59:30)
Not really that old, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:31)
Yeah, well

if you like the look of the old one, you might want to check out the trail seeker rather than the Outback.

Perry Stern (59:38)
Exactly. Yeah. you might want to check out the Trail Seeker anyway. I really like that one. I think of all of Subaru's EVs that I've driven so far, that's my favorite, but that's that's a whole other subject.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:40)
It's really much more of...

Yeah. All right. There's also one other Kia vehicle from the auto show that we neglected to talk about, which is the PV5, which they showed as a taxi in partnership with BraunAbility. they, Kia first showed the PV5 and a bunch of other variants of it at CES in 2024. Yeah, 2024 they showed them.

And those, ⁓ know, so this is sort of a midsize van that they had on display there, the PV5. so, ⁓ you know, smaller than something like a Transit, bigger than like the old Transit Connect or the old Promaster City, you know, relatively tall. ⁓ And they partnered with BraunAbility. BraunAbility is one of the biggest providers of wheelchair accessible vehicles.

in the US. And so they do modifications on a wide range of different vehicles. So you can buy Chrysler Pacificas, Toyota Siennas. There's a bunch of different SUVs that they do. I think they, I can't remember if they do the Odyssey or not, but there's a bunch of different vehicles that they sell with wheelchair accessibility kits. one of the things you'll notice, whether it's BraunAbility or one of the competitors,

typically whenever you see a van that's got a wheelchair kit on there, it's usually been jacked up. ⁓ So suspension's been lifted up so they can get the access in there ⁓ for the wheelchairs with a reasonable ramp height and other things. ⁓ But they worked very closely with Kia ⁓ on integrating into the PV5. And I talked with somebody from

from BraunAbility about what they did with this thing. And because the PV5 is a skateboard chassis ⁓ with, you the battery comes up to the rear axle and then there's independent rear suspension, there's nothing really between the rear wheels. They were able to basically cut down the floor in between the rear suspension on either side. ⁓ And they didn't have to really do anything to the suspension at all. from the outside, it looks like a

perfectly standard PV5, but it's got a reasonable ramp angle for the wheelchairs. And one of things he was explaining about a lot of these wheelchair conversions is the anchor kits for the chair. ⁓ It's usually separate cables that a lot of times they'll get lost or misplaced. then when a driver is going to pick up somebody in a wheelchair,

You know, they don't always have all the cables. can't strap the chair down. So then they got to call another car. ⁓ This one, they've designed the system with integrated cables or integrated anchors in there for the chair ⁓ so that they're always there. They're not rattling around. ⁓ And, you know, it's a lot easier to use, a lot easier for the driver to get the chair hooked in there. So you roll the chair up into the back.

hook it down so it doesn't move around, and then ⁓ the ramp ⁓ folds up ⁓ in the back. When there's a chair in there, the ramp folds up in the back. When there's no chair in there, the ramp can actually just slide right up on top of, the part of the ramp that extends out just slides up on top of the floor. And so you still have a flat floor, so if the car is picking up somebody else who's not in a wheelchair, you still have all that cargo area back there.

⁓ And they've got this one wrapped like a New York City taxi. They're talking to the Taxi and Limousine Commission about getting these things approved for use as taxis. ⁓ They haven't got that yet, but ⁓ I think this would be a good addition to the fleet in New York and other cities where you need wheelchair accessible vehicles.

Nicole (1:04:05)
Yeah, think it's neat and to make it little bit more easily accessible for people in Mealtros too, like you said, not having to do any kind of upfitting to make it work. It looked really neat. I think it's a great idea. ⁓ We'll see. They seem very positive about getting it approved. So I think it really is just hopefully just a matter of time.

Perry Stern (1:04:05)
It's a cool setup, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:25)
Yeah. All right. ⁓ Next up, ⁓ Stellantis. ⁓ They have a plant in Brampton, Ontario, which is just west of Toronto, which is where they used to build the ⁓ Charger and Challenger and Chrysler 300. And ⁓ then before that, they actually built Jeeps there for a long time. ⁓ And the plant was originally slated to produce the next generation Jeep Compass. ⁓ Well, last spring,

After ⁓ somebody imposed tariffs on Canada and Mexico, Stellantis paused their retooling efforts at the factory and decided not to build the compass there. later on ⁓ changed their plans and decided to build the compass in ⁓ Illinois instead. But they've got this empty plant and they've been trying to figure out what to do with it. Well, now that Canada has a trade deal with China.

that's going to allow Chinese vehicles to come into the Canadian market, Chinese EVs to come into the Canadian market. ⁓ And they're also encouraging the Chinese, encouraging Chinese vehicles to be built in Canada. Stellantis is now in talks ⁓ to convert that assembly plant over to building vehicles from Leap Motor, which is a partner that, know, they own an equity stake in Leap Motor. ⁓

and they're talking to the Canadian and Ontario governments about building leap motor EVs ⁓ in that plant, ⁓ which could be interesting. ⁓ I think I have a feeling when these Chinese EVs come into the Canadian market this year, they're probably gonna sell pretty well, ⁓ but ⁓ now we're starting to get a lot of noise from Washington. ⁓

⁓ the Canadian ambassador to Canada, or the US ambassador to Canada, already declared last week that Chinese vehicles are not gonna be allowed to cross the border from Canada. Canadians who buy a Chinese vehicle, if they wanna visit the US, they are not gonna be allowed to drive those vehicles across the border. ⁓ Senator Bernie Moreno has introduced a bill to ban any Chinese vehicle, well, to ban ⁓

vehicles from being driven in, from being imported, or even from being built in the US, which is kind of nuts. a big part of one of the reasons they keep giving for trying to ban Chinese vehicles is this nonsense security reason. They're saying, if we get these Chinese vehicles in the US, they've all got these cameras on them. You know what else has cameras on them? Every other vehicle that you can buy right now.

Perry Stern (1:07:21)
Every other car.

Nicole (1:07:22)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:23)
⁓ Yeah, and they're

Perry Stern (1:07:23)
Not to mention your phone and everything else that you carry around.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:27)
going to be sending all this data, all this spying and sending data back to China. They don't need to import vehicles or build them here or anything else to do that. They can just go out and buy any vehicle that's already on sale here and slap some cameras in it. And if they want to spy, they can just drive around and capture whatever they want.

It's a ridiculous argument. But what do you think about ⁓ the idea of ⁓ Stellantis building leap motor EVs in Canada?

Nicole (1:08:07)
I think it's a good move for them. mean, if they have a way to use a factory that's being unused and to help their struggling bottom line, I think they should do that.

Perry Stern (1:08:07)
I mean it

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:19)
Yeah.

Perry Stern (1:08:19)
Yeah, that's.

No, I think it does make sense. mean, why waste the space? And if there's going to be demand for them, ⁓ I mean, I have no idea pricing-wise, but it would seem that they would be ⁓ a less expensive way of getting into an EV. So.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:40)
Well,

a couple of years ago when Stellantis had their last investor day here, ⁓ Carlos Tavares, the then CEO, talked a lot about Leap Motor and said that this was a pathway for them to get much more affordable EVs into the market, not just here but in Europe as well. ⁓ So, yeah, I would guess that these are going to be fairly inexpensive vehicles. Not as cheap as they are in China, obviously, but apparently fairly inexpensive. ⁓

Although according to the story from Electrek, ⁓ the proposal from Stellantis has already drawn fierce opposition from Ontario Premier Doug Ford and the Unifor Union, ⁓ which represents about 3,000 laid off workers at the plant. I can't understand why they would be so upset about it. If Stellantis wants to build something there, they're going to be recalling workers.

Perry Stern (1:09:30)
Why would they care what it is?

Nicole (1:09:32)
Right?

Perry Stern (1:09:33)
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to protest it, but there must be something else there as well.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:39)
Yeah, but that could be interesting. All right, the last story I want to touch on for today is one that actually just popped up in the New York Times today. It's about how a family of three lives on $25,000 a year in Corona in Queens. So, you know, this is is in New York City and, you know, this is an immigrant family and

Nicole (1:09:43)
be

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:10)
the husband is driving, he's driving for Uber and Lyft and he is, you know, he's clearing about $25,000 a year after expenses, which, you know, to live in New York, you know, or even in Queens seems, is insane. But reading through the story, you know, the thing that really jumped out at me is that,

Perry Stern (1:10:27)
live anywhere.

Nicole (1:10:29)
Seriously.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:38)
He's renting a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid to use to drive. And I know Uber and Lyft and some other companies do these rentals of relatively newer vehicles to drivers that want to use them for ride share or for deliveries or whatever else. They can use them for door to ash or things like that. And this guy is paying $2,400 a month

to rent a RAV4.

Nicole (1:11:10)
and he has another $450 in car insurance on there. So that's $28.50 that he's spending just to have, that is.

Perry Stern (1:11:10)
Cheers.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:14)
Yeah, almost 3 grand a month just for the car.

Perry Stern (1:11:19)
which is

almost more than he's spending to live. Yeah, it's too much.

Nicole (1:11:22)
Right? It is because they split the

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:22)
Well, actually, it is more than you're spending to live.

Nicole (1:11:26)
rent with people, with somebody. So that is more... I feel like there should be a better way to do that than that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:33)
Yeah. ⁓

Perry Stern (1:11:34)
I mean, it sounds like

he's getting taken advantage of.

Nicole (1:11:36)
Yeah, it does.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:38)
Yeah, it's like one of these rent to own deals, except that he's never actually gonna own this vehicle. There needs to be some sort of pathway ⁓ for people to, if they wanna do this work, and reading the article explains why he's doing this instead of some other job, because he's got a seven month old child, his wife just had a baby last year, and.

Perry Stern (1:11:45)
No.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:07)
He likes having the flexibility so he can go with them to doctor's appointments and things like that. So that's fair. But if you're going to do this kind of work, there needs to be some other pathway to getting a reasonable vehicle, a reasonably priced vehicle to use. Because $2,400 a month to rent a RAV4.

You know, even if you took an insanely long loan, you wouldn't be paying anywhere near that much to buy one.

Perry Stern (1:12:38)
I mean, if he could.

Nicole (1:12:44)
Mm.

Perry Stern (1:12:45)
I was going to say, you know, he doesn't rent it for, you know, four months, three months, he could buy a reasonable used car. I mean, I mean, for, you know, you know, 7,500 to 10 grand, I mean, no, it's not going to be anything great, but it's you can, you know, there's got to be something that is still drivable, still usable that he could use for, I mean, I don't know what their, what their qualifications are. But.

Nicole (1:12:53)
Seriously, yeah.

Perry Stern (1:13:14)
Yeah, it would seem that that's, that's, ⁓ there's no way you can win. It's never, you're never going to get yourself out of that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:20)
No.

Nicole (1:13:22)
No, that's amazing to me. Wow. Unfortunate.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:26)
Yeah.

It is really unfortunate. ⁓ And that's something we should maybe take a look at is how can we provide people that are working in the gig economy as drivers a ⁓ way to make a reasonable living doing this stuff? And this certainly isn't it.

Nicole (1:13:53)
Yeah.

Perry Stern (1:13:53)
That

said, mean, it is hard to make a living driving a car if you don't have one. I mean, that's the, you know, I'm not saying that what they're doing is right, but he's chosen a profession that requires a car ⁓ or chosen to, I mean, I'm not, I don't know what other possibilities there are and granted there's certain ⁓ benefits to having the flexibility of an Uber driver, but ⁓ you know, that's kind of the...

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:59)
That's true.

Nicole (1:14:09)
Yeah.

Perry Stern (1:14:22)
That's why it works for so many people is they use what they already have and then it's just money on top where he's taken pretty much all the money he's making and just putting it back in the car, which just doesn't make any sense.

Nicole (1:14:32)
Right.

It says he clears $25,000 a year and he's spending like 30 on the car. So he's, he's spending a lot on that car. I don't get it. I'm confused by that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:47)
Yeah, so I mean, you know,

he's technically earning about $55,000 a year, but $30,000 of that is just going into that vehicle. And, you know, I know that, you know, if you, you know, if you don't have credit, you know, and you can't get a loan, you know, or you can't, you can't get a reasonable loan, you know, buying a used car, you could end up, you know, you end up paying insanely high interest rates, you know.

on a used car loan. But even at that, you should be able to get something like a not too old RAV4 or CRV or for certainly for a lot less than 2,400 bucks a month, maybe 1,000 bucks a month. If you did $1,000 a month on a, say you could find a used RAV4 for 25 grand,

Nicole (1:15:28)
Mm.

Yeah, that's outrageous.

Perry Stern (1:15:34)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:46)
you know, and you could, you know, buy that for, you know, for even a thousand dollar a month loan, even if you had like a 20 % interest rate that, you know, you're still far better off. Yeah.

Perry Stern (1:15:56)
You're still better off.

Nicole (1:15:57)
You're still, yeah, yeah.

Perry Stern (1:15:59)
There's

at least a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel on that, where this one, that's just, exactly. Right, it's an investment as opposed to what this is, which is throwing away money, unfortunately.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:03)
Yeah, at least you know at some point you're actually gonna own it.

Nicole (1:16:06)
You're going to own it. It's going to be yours. not just renting it indefinitely. Yeah.

It is.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:15)
Yeah. All right. ⁓ There's a couple other stories I've got on here, but I'm going to save those for next week because, you know, some stuff with Mercedes-Benz. I know Robbie went to visit Mercedes last week, and I'm going to save those for next week when he's back, hopefully. And we do have two interviews that were recorded, and we've actually got more, but I will save some, a couple for next week as well. ⁓

Nicole (1:16:28)
⁓ okay.

Sounds good.

Perry Stern (1:16:33)
Let's make a plan.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:43)
Nicole Nicole did several interviews last week in New York and we did one together We actually did a couple interviews last week together first one. The first one is with Craig Piersma Craig is the vice president of marketing and communications for a company called Gentex and we've talked, know recently about the the the camera mirror systems like when we talked about the the Polestar 4 and you know,

Nicole (1:16:51)
We did.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:10)
speculated about what could be done to make those more usable for drivers, especially if you have difficulty refocusing, ⁓ going from the mirror to focusing on the outside world. ⁓ so Craig had some very interesting information to share with us on that. So I'm going to run that here, and then we'll be right back after that, ⁓ and we'll introduce the next interview.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:39)
Hello, and this is Sam and ⁓ I'm here with Nicole and we're joined today by Craig Piersma, who is the ⁓ vice president of marketing and communications for Gentex, which is a company you more likely than not have never heard of, but ⁓ you also very likely have some of their products in your car if it's been built anytime in recent decades. So Craig, welcome.

Craig Piersma (1:18:07)
Thank you. Thank you very much.

Sure. Yep, yep. Well, today we think of ourselves as a technology company. We're in automotive, aerospace, fire protection, premium audio, biometrics, but our claim to fame is automotive. That's where most of our revenue is. We were put on the map probably close to 40 years ago when we invented the automatic dimming rear view mirror. So almost everybody has driven with that. uses two cameras, one looking forward to the vehicle, one rearward.

⁓ They talk together and then darken that mirror to the precise level necessary to eliminate glare. But that mirror, that location on the windscreen is where we play. We've integrated hundreds of features into the mirror. And the topic we're talking about today is we've actually taken and turned it into a digital mirror. So using a camera to see what's behind you with a mirror integrated display. So ⁓ anything related to that side of the mirror and seeing what's behind you and vision.

That's where we play.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:14)
So ⁓ where did the idea for what, as GenTex brands, the full display mirror, or the digital camera mirror, where did that originate from?

Craig Piersma (1:19:23)
Yeah.

Sure. It was back in the early 2000s, most likely we were, you look at car design and how it's evolved over the last couple of decades, you have the belt line of the car sweeping upwards, you had the roof line sweeping downward, resulting in a smaller and smaller rear opening. And so we were doing studies that showed that on average 30 % of a mirror's view is blocked when it's looking out the rear of the car. And that includes things like headrests.

⁓ but predominantly the C and D pillars in that vehicle. And so we were looking and thinking, better has got to be a better way to do this. Around the same time, we were producing a product called rear camera display, where you put the vehicle in reverse and a little inset image would appear in the mirror. ⁓ And so we knew that, hey, this is what's coming. This is kind of where car design is leading. Here's where technology is leading. We can digitize this and actually see ⁓

better behind the vehicle if we use a camera. So that camera reveals a bright panoramic wide view unobstructed of what's behind you. And that's just where we are with car design. was just one of those things we felt was necessary to take that step.

Nicole Wakelin (1:20:40)
Yeah, so I think the cameras are great, but there are some challenges to having them. Like I noticed that the very first time I ever used one, there happened to be construction on either side and had the orange barrels on either side of the road. And it was almost distracting because I saw so much like you just saw all these orange barrels floating by in the background. So I know they've and it was early on. So they weren't the I don't think the clarity of the resolution was as good. So it was a little hard to watch, but.

Craig Piersma (1:20:56)
Yes.

Right.

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:09)
With the review cameras, one of the things I have a question about is like, especially at nighttime, when you have those at night, it becomes like they don't work. Like the glare is really hard. How do you, like then you still have to do the old, know, flip the camera kind of flip the little button thing to make it work.

Craig Piersma (1:21:24)
Yeah.

Well, there's been a lot of advances when we look at ⁓ handling nighttime performance. Usually it's the other way around. People are saying that the human eye can see into the darkness better than the camera could. And we should point out to your point, ⁓ even every one of our full display mirrors is bimodal. So you can switch back and forth. And most customers, when we've studied them, they do it. About 60 % of drivers will say that they switch regularly. So if there's a part of the driving task where the camera is not optimal,

you can switch it to a standard mirror. When you're trying to monitor multiple lanes of traffic, you want that wider unobstructed field of view. You've got passengers, the drop down entertainment center luggage. You're switching it to that display mode. but yeah, we did a lot in terms of flicker mitigation as well. I don't know if you ever noticed that. That was a complaint. Yeah, those LEDs would flicker at the same frame rate as the camera.

Nicole Wakelin (1:22:14)
have seen that on occasion. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Yes!

Craig Piersma (1:22:21)
And so we've done some tricks to minimize that, basically cut that phenomena in half. yeah, do, know, glare, which is another topic I'm often talking about, is just one of those instances that's reality today. You know, and you're going to get a little camera flare when there is a bright LED headlight behind you. We do have some software that helps take care of that. But again, glare is just something that we live with today.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:22:47)
Yeah, you know, mean, one of the one of the things that I do appreciate about many of these systems ⁓ is typically when they're met, when the vehicle has one, there's also a washer on that rear mounted camera. so, you know, living here in Michigan, where we get winter weather, your rear window. ⁓

Craig Piersma (1:23:02)
Mmm, yep.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:23:09)
gets covered with snow or salt or whatever it might be. ⁓ Even with the Defoggeron, you don't always get a clear view through that rear window ⁓ or ⁓ on many newer vehicles. They don't even have a rear window wiper, which is even more problematic.

Craig Piersma (1:23:28)
Right.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:23:29)
And most of the cars, most if not all the cars I've seen with the full display mirror have a washer on there. So when you you flip the washer, it actually washes that camera. So even if it has gotten obstructed, all of a sudden you get a nice clear view again.

Craig Piersma (1:23:44)
Well, the other benefit about that, they really do work well in all weather conditions. if it's pouring rain, like you said, if you don't have a rear wiper, that rain is just falling down that rear window. When you're driving down the road at speed, usually that camera's in a location where the water is just whipping away. And you almost, it's almost like you're not driving in the rain. That rear view is pretty darn clear because the wind is whipping the rain and the snow away from the camera as you're moving. And you have a nice clear view in that display.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:14)
So Nicole, I think I tend to be more enthusiastic about these things than you. And Robbie too, to some degree.

Craig Piersma (1:24:21)
You

Nicole Wakelin (1:24:25)
Yeah.

You know, I like the cameras and I think they're here's the thing that throws me. It's, one of those things that when they work and they do like when they work, I don't mean that the technology breaks, but when they're working the way they're supposed to, when you're using them the way they're supposed to, and all the conditions are right, they're brilliant. I love it. It's the best thing ever. But the minute conditions aren't right. It feels like they have a very narrow, perfect operating window. How's that to phrase it?

Craig Piersma (1:24:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:24:53)
where,

you know, if it's rainy or if it's, you know, there's snow or ice or stuff blowing around or it's nighttime and you got the glare. Sometimes they're like, I think I just, just the old school mirror might be better. Prove me wrong. Prove me wrong, Craig.

Craig Piersma (1:25:09)
Well, like I said,

that's why I always remind people that is bimodal. There are going to be times where that the mirror mode you might prefer versus the display mode. You know, I hate to talk about other drawbacks of the product, but most of the time when people say they have an issue, it's this need to judge depth of field that admittedly is more difficult when you're looking at a 2D image display. And the other is when you're having to refocus your eyes. So

Sam Abuelsamid (1:25:29)
That's the big complaint.

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:37)
Mm-hmm.

Craig Piersma (1:25:38)
I know that I am older. I have reached that point where I have, I think it's called presbyopia, which is basically my eye, the older eye, usually it's after the age of 40, cannot focus on a nearby object as well. And so when we're looking in, when we're in our car, we're looking down the road, our eyes are focused far down the road, tens of feet to hundreds of yards down the road. The moment we look at any display or anything interior of that vehicle, whether it be my instrument cluster, whether it be the center console,

Nicole Wakelin (1:25:40)
Hahaha!

Craig Piersma (1:26:07)
or a full display mirror, our eye has to refocus. And that does take some energy. And as we get older, that refocusing isn't as easy to do. And that's where when we, you know, we'll get into it in a bit, I'm sure, but some of the advances that we're working on are helping to alleviate some of those problems, both the depths of field issue, as well as those that we're dealing with presbyopia or can't refocus as quickly as they'd like.

Nicole Wakelin (1:26:30)
So I do sometimes have the depth of field issue, which I mean, honestly, you get your side view mirrors that are real mirrors. You have to get the same thing. Like you have to over time, get used to the fact closer than appears, you know, the Jurassic Park moment, that thing is right there, you know? So I wonder how much of it is just if you had one of these, if you had a camera all the time for your rear view mirror, do you just eventually figure out how close things really are? But I'd love to hear more about how your

Craig Piersma (1:26:44)
Yeah, right.

Yes.

Nicole Wakelin (1:26:57)
What about the person who's really struggling with that and has that dual mode, they're constantly just putting an old school mode instead of using the camera.

Craig Piersma (1:27:05)
Yeah.

Yeah. So we can jump to that. So this was exciting because I actually started talking to our product guys and some of our engineers just to kind of catch up as I was preparing for this. And there's some pretty cool things we're working on. So we are launching right now. Matter of fact, at the Consumer Electronics Show was the first time we showed what we're calling the next generation full display mirror. It's usually it's the fourth generation, as we call it internally. But we're doing some interesting things. Number one, it's a different camera.

So today the camera that's being used, most of the FDMs that are in the field is accompanied by a two and a half megapixel camera. We're jumping to an eight megapixel camera. So right there, you're going to get a much sharper, crisper, brighter view. The other thing we're doing is we're switching that display a bit. So the current display, it's about 171 pixels per square inch. We're jumping to 205, so 205 pixels per square inch. What that does is as I just mentioned, it's a brighter,

sharper, ⁓ more contrast, better color, saturated image. Now if you think about it this way, if our eyes were perfect, if I'm in my 20s and I can refocus no problem, ⁓ if I'm looking at a blurry image to begin with, your eyes can't bring that into focus, right? So the sharper and crisper that starting image is, the easier on the eyes and the easier it is to focus on it.

And so this kind of was something that we came across somewhat anecdotally. There are certainly customers like you that have said, hey, this is an issue. We believe this is an issue, especially for older drivers. What are you doing? And we came up with this next generation FDM. We had some of our customers driving it and they're like, the accessibility or ⁓ the, image is much better. That accessibility for our customers we think is going to be great. And we're like, wait a minute, we didn't even think of that, but that makes sense.

purely because that starting image is brighter. So we're taking it even a step further. The latest versions you're going to be able to go into, and there's usually a menu for adjusting contrast and brightness and other things. We're going to add a menu item that is an accessibility. So some secret sauce, ISP, some image signal processing that even jacks that crispness, the brightness, the color saturation up higher for those that might have this presbyopia.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:29:09)
angle and other things.

Craig Piersma (1:29:25)
And what we're finding, and we've even done internal studies with our design studio, is that those that deal with presbyopia find this accessibility mode better, almost eliminating that problem for them. So very, very exciting for what's coming down the road with this product.

Nicole Wakelin (1:29:41)
So how close to coming down the road, like you're working on it, but then you have to work on it and you have to get a test and you have to get it ready. And then you have to get it into a vehicle. Like how long before we actually see that?

Craig Piersma (1:29:50)
So,

yeah, so we are selling it to automakers today, but like you said, they have current version. So we just started showing it. Some of them are saying, yes, we're going to adopt that. some, you'll see it probably within the next year to two, you'll start to see that being on the roads today, or in a road at NET3. Yep. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:30:09)
So

just to step back to, know.

exactly how this is working by simply increasing the the resolution and contrast and color saturation and everything it sounds like what you said was you know if the image is slightly blurry to begin with then people are going to have a you know especially as you get older and your your the lenses of your eyes you know get stiffer they don't focus as well it becomes harder to refocus so by by just making that image quality better

Craig Piersma (1:30:33)
Right. Right.

Correct.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:30:40)
Your eyes

don't have to work as hard to refocus. that my understanding that right?

Craig Piersma (1:30:43)
That's exactly

it. That's exactly it. And it's also worth mentioning, and this is what we find when people are using this in real use to make driving task decisions. The average glance to the mirror, whether it's a full display mirror, standard mirror, is milliseconds. ⁓ It's somewhere around like 150 to 300 milliseconds. That is a, you're really not focusing at that much. I always make the joke.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:30:48)
Okay.

Craig Piersma (1:31:12)
I need to know that there is a car behind me, not what kind of car is behind me. So when I'm making those split second decisions, it's a quick millisecond glance. You can imagine as you're, if you're merging and all of the time you're checking your mirror, you're looking at how quick, is there a big enough opening? How quickly is that car coming up beside me? It's millisecond glances. And so that's why even when we're using the full display mirror, we find that most people get accustomed to it pretty darn quickly because it's that millisecond glance. doesn't really need to be in perfect focus. Now, certainly there are times where

Nicole Wakelin (1:31:15)
True.

Craig Piersma (1:31:41)
We're glancing up there and we want to see something clear and sharp. And that's where when people see this, this will make a real difference for them because they'll be able to focus on that much easier.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:31:53)
So you mentioned going to an 8 megapixel camera. Are you also working on things like the dynamic resolution, improving the dynamic resolution? especially at nighttime, you can see more ⁓ stuff pops out of that image.

Craig Piersma (1:32:09)
Yes,

its nighttime performance is greatly enhanced. Matter of fact, that's kind of, we've been showing that at CES for a couple of years, but the nighttime performance is greater. You can turn up that camera to see better at night, but then of course it starts to black and white, you start to lose any kind of color, it starts to get grainy. And this new camera combined with our image signal processing makes nighttime performance much, much better.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:32:38)
Okay, so as more more manufacturers are moving to ⁓ software defined vehicles and getting new electronic architectures that centralize the compute, ⁓ for something like this, ⁓ I think up until now, you're probably doing the processing of that image probably right in the mirror module. Is that gonna be moving into these central compute modules that we're starting to see on cars now?

Craig Piersma (1:33:00)
Yes.

Yeah, it all depends. So certainly some automakers, if they want to do that off board, off the mirror, that's fine. Most of the time we're finding that there are benefits to just having that, that, that compute power right on the mirror itself. The mirrors already got a microprocessor for other things. ⁓ And what we're also finding is that, you know, typically that mirror becomes, it's on the vehicle bus. So it's getting other bits and pieces of information. This next generation of full display mirror is actually going to do some cool things. It's going to,

adjust, we're calling it dynamic view assist. And this is really why we're getting to the better screen and the better camera, because it will adjust according to the driving task. So for instance, when you put the vehicle in reverse, we're actually going to tilt the view digitally downward a little bit to make it seem more natural. So if you imagine the full display mirror, the camera is capturing a wide rectangle. We're only showing that small rectangle view in the mirror, but we can digitally move tilt pan and zoom.

around in that image that we're actually capturing. So that what means if we put the vehicle in reverse, we can tilt that downward a little bit to make reversing seem more natural. And you'll see that car bumper behind you at high speeds. Nicole, this is what you're alluding to before. If you're driving down, you're seeing all the orange cones that are flying past you at high speeds. We can actually contract that view a little bit. We could automatically do that. I mean, perfect for the Autobahn where those speeds are crazy high. You could just contract it so things aren't flying past you on the edges of that display. But

Nicole Wakelin (1:34:19)
Yeah.

Right. Okay.

Craig Piersma (1:34:35)
at slow speeds or as you come to a stop at a stop sign, expanding it so you can see the bicyclists and the pedestrians and other traffic that you're in.

Nicole Wakelin (1:34:43)
And this is something

that could, could it happen? will happen automatically. Like I don't need to say I'm on the Autobahn or I'm backing up. It just like, no, you've hit a certain speed time to change the view or. Okay.

Craig Piersma (1:34:46)
Exactly.

Nope. Because it's on the vehicle bus, exactly, because

we're on the vehicle bus, we'll have that speed input, we'll know how fast the vehicle is traveling, and we can adjust that automatically. We're also going to do something called side blind zone assist. So if there's a vehicle alongside you, we'll know that, we'll get a signal from the vehicle side blind zone system, and we can actually then show a little inset image of that car, it's behind you, because again, we're capturing a wide image, we're only showing a small portion.

Nicole Wakelin (1:35:00)
That's really cool.

Craig Piersma (1:35:18)
But we can go find that car in the portion that we're not showing and then put a little inset image of that right in the mirror so you can see that. And then the final thing we're doing is looking at with, if you have a truck, typically we're showing the view just off the tailgate, right? We aim that camera, we're grabbing a view just off the tailgate, but the camera is seeing at the same time into the bed of the truck. So we can, again, grab that portion, put that into the mirror so you'll have a bed cam view showing you if you're,

need to monitor the bed of your truck for some reason, that can be shown simultaneously. it's a lot of things that are just cool features. Some of them are definitely safety, but all of them start to address some of those drawbacks of the original system ⁓ that you were mentioning earlier.

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:04)
love the idea of having these different views in there because automakers do that with their cameras that aren't part of the ⁓ review camera that show you, but then they put them up in weird spots. Like suddenly it takes over part of your instrument cluster or you're in a city and you're looking at really complicated directions. Like, no, now I chose you to show you the right-hand side of your car instead. You're like, I need to know when I turn. So putting it up in the review mirror in that area.

Craig Piersma (1:36:16)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:30)
that there's no other thing other than vision that's happening up there. So it's actually kind of a brilliant idea.

Craig Piersma (1:36:33)
Right.

Yeah, the mirror is definitely in our natural scan pattern. When the Kids Transportation Safety Act, when we needed to put that rear camera to prevent back over accidents, most automakers chose to put that in the center console somewhere. And you're right, it's not in your natural scan pattern. And we've had to learn to incorporate this fourth location. You have outside mirrors, two of them, an inside mirror, and now suddenly we're trying to bring in this fourth location. Like you said, this is a very natural location for some of those features.

Nicole Wakelin (1:36:43)
Right?

Yeah.

that idea. That's neat. Make that happen now.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:37:05)
Yeah, but just before

you start talking about having the blind zone assist information in there, I was about to ask you if you were looking at integrating with some of the other driver assist features on the vehicle to perhaps, when there is something in the view that the driver should be particularly aware of, throw a bounding box around it or highlight something.

Craig Piersma (1:37:25)
Exactly. And those are

things we've experimented with and we actually have versions of that here where you can actually, we can, we have software to identify pedestrians, identify vehicles, identify bicycles. It's just a matter of does an automaker find that value and want to provide that to their customers. So we show those things, but then it's up to an automaker to say, yeah, I want that in my system.

Nicole Wakelin (1:37:45)
Do you have any idea of just how likely the automakers are? if you've shown them anything, is there any kind of feedback on that yet?

Craig Piersma (1:37:51)
⁓ Everybody that's seen the next generation full display mirrors is gravitating towards that. It'll just be a matter of time.

Nicole Wakelin (1:38:00)
That's amazing. No, he answered all my questions. I feel better about the technology there. Well, you've sold me on it. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:38:01)
Fantastic. Any other questions, Nicole? All right. Craig, anything else you want to add about the

cool stuff that Gentax has coming down the stream?

Craig Piersma (1:38:12)
⁓ goodness.

You know, this product, like most of our mirrors, comes with other features and that's where even this Next Gen FDM, we have a version that's scalable. So you can still integrate HomeLink, which is our car to home automation system. So buttons that can be programmed to operate gates, garage doors, home lighting, home automation. That's part of this system. We actually have a version that will do a dash cam. So it's an integrated dash cam.

It's got a camera looking forward. We use the rear camera's view. can ⁓ on demand press a button and you can capture the 10 seconds of video. Or if there's airbag deployment, we capture that video, right? ⁓ And then we're actually implementing a secondary camera, a wifi camera that could be placed on the back of a trailer. We're doing trailer cam or theoretically you could put it interior and use it as a baby cam and a rearward facing car seat. So these are just some of the other additional features that will be part of this system in the future.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:39:12)
Great. Well, yeah, thanks, Craig. Appreciate your time. ⁓ I'm going to hit stop now and then.

Nicole Wakelin (1:39:13)
Thank you so much, Craig. This has been great.

Craig Piersma (1:39:15)
Certainly. appreciate it.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:39:22)
All right, and the second interview we've got for today, was Nicole and I sat down with Matt McAleer, who ⁓ is the CEO of both the Dodge and Chrysler brands now. We talked about Matt a couple weeks ago when we mentioned that Chris Fuel was leaving Chrysler. ⁓ Matt is now running both of those brands. And Nicole and I sat down with him at the New York show last week to get some thoughts on what's going on with those two brands.

⁓ And we'll run that here. actually before we run that, let's go ahead and say goodbye. ⁓ And we'll talk to you next time and just keep listening to the interview with Matt. Bye.

Nicole (1:40:06)
See ya, bye everyone.

Perry Stern (1:40:08)
Bye.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:40:09)
Matt McAleer, CEO of Dodge and now CEO of Chrysler as well.

Matt McAlear (1:40:15)
few weeks.

Nicole Wakelin (1:40:18)
dodge program up north and I'm like why is he so crazy a day later

Sam Abuelsamid (1:40:24)
This is what we were doing.

Nicole Wakelin (1:40:26)
it all becomes clear. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:40:30)
You

⁓ you know chrysler you know down to down to one official nameplate you know the voyagers been rolled back into pacific again

Matt McAlear (1:40:45)
It's a lot easier to double nameplates than when you start with one.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:40:49)
That's

a very good point. So, let's start with besides the obvious ⁓ front refresh on the Pacifica, anything else changing for 2020?

Matt McAlear (1:41:01)
Yeah, lot of evolutionary things. So in addition to the refresh, which only isn't just looks, it also is 17 % better light visibility. And as we move around to side of the car, we've got five new wheels, finishes and designs coming. We've got five new exterior paint colors, which is something that a lot of people have been asking for for last couple of

blue and then we brought the evolution of the wing badge to the rear of the tailgate and then the big thing on the tailgate is now you're able to set the ⁓ opening height so if you lived in a lower garage or you parked in a parking garage where you maybe it would always bump the top now you can set that lower if you

Nicole Wakelin (1:41:37)
I don't think I even realized that wasn't a thing.

Matt McAlear (1:41:40)
Always full open or full closed.

Nicole Wakelin (1:41:42)
never tried to open it in my garage because that would have gone poorly for me. You can change No, I could do that.

Matt McAlear (1:41:49)
And then on the interior we moved in we brought the new blue agave leather into the pinnacle which we have the one you're sitting in and then we put some evolution of the safety and security features with turn signal activated blind spot cameras and then the forward sensing cameras when you're parking the beepers start to go off now the camera automatically turns on inside and then we still have

going, fam cam, and all of the things that just make us different in the segment.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:42:17)
⁓ the blind spot cameras, does that show up in the center display or in the instrument cluster?

Matt McAlear (1:42:21)
center display. And you can turn that on or

Sam Abuelsamid (1:42:26)
⁓ You've also now lost the plug-in hybrid power train, down to just the Pentastar. ⁓ Was there any thought to maybe doing something with the new hybrid system that you in the Cherokee? Maybe bringing something like that into the air?

Matt McAlear (1:42:44)
looking at the iterations as we go forward of how we balance our corporate fuel economy as well as our greenhouse gas across all of our nameplates as we brought out the full battery electrics on the Charger and the Wagoneer and now the Recon. So we're always looking at that in the iteration of how we can evolve our powertrains. Hybrids I think are obviously one of the powertrains that are going be important for the future but with this model right now I think it's such a great fit with the Pentastar, the 9-speed.

the all-wheel drive capability, the snow and go, second and third row, best in class towing. This vehicle truly kind of, those things separate itself from the other nameplates in the segment. So I think we're excited to kind of get that knowledge back out there again and to kind of focus your marketing on one initiative versus two powertrains in a segment that a lot of time people are buying for ease and simplicity and not necessarily trying to figure out which one's the right one for me.

and I'm excited about this model, this launch. I think it's the right time as we start to see the segment growing, forecasted to grow year over year for the second and third trade year.

going to have her staring at me and give me a hug? No, think the exciting thing is that we have our Investor Day presentation coming up next month, May 21st in Auburn Hills, where Antonio and the team are going to lay out the future of many of our brands. Chrysler is one of those brands. So we don't have to wait too long today. We're focused on, obviously, the launch of this vehicle. But Chrysler has an important future, and we're excited to disclose and show all that next month.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:44:31)
So we will see more from the Chrysler brand going forward. Okay, that's good to hear.

Nicole Wakelin (1:44:38)
Yeah. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:44:39)
because we've been hearing that for a number of years now and haven't seen anything yet. So hopefully we'll see something not too distant.

Nicole Wakelin (1:44:49)
21st so stop smirking and just... 21st. 21st, right?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:44:56)
The email I got from you last week mentioned the 12th. At any rate, doesn't matter. maybe somebody else I was talking to. I don't know, it's 21st.

Nicole Wakelin (1:45:06)
We're going with the 21st. Okay, that works.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:45:08)
⁓ So ⁓ let's shift over to Dodge. You've got another special edition of Durango now too.

Matt McAlear (1:45:19)
exciting day. Durango is one of those cars that just continues to set records and we had our best sales year in 20 years last year and this year has already started off. Vehicles are turning extremely quick. We announced the V8 only strategy back in Roadkill Nights and demand was so high as we ramp up for HEMI's we had to bring back some production of the V6 to meet consumer demand. We continue to see them turn extremely fast. The Durango SRT ⁓

Hellcat with the jailbreak is now available in all 50 states so people are extremely excited about that. We opened last week for the return of the 392 into the Durango and we took enough orders in the first six hours to cover the remainder of the 26-mile-year production and people are super excited. That's the most horsepower available in the segment under $50,000. 475 horsepower under 50 with all-wheel drive and seven-past is huge.

Nicole Wakelin (1:46:13)
you order one today now you're it's 2027.

Matt McAlear (1:46:16)
⁓ depends on the deal so we just went out a patient and now some dealers but all the orders and now we have to get out okay to the right here is put a man who earns the allocation do all we call balance out is the behind the scenes and make sure they go right but then you know quickly be turning the twenty seven model year and then so the follow on the heels of the three ninety two we launched the america's two fifty edition today which is the first of our for brands to show that buzz miles are coming chrysler

Jeep and Ram also have an A250 edition coming, which we kind of showed on the spotlight in the background today on the slides. But that's a neat appearance package that ⁓ is super cool. And with the stars and stripes and the blue trace on the outside, the first time we've done a blue, petrol blue interior with the black Laguna, red seatbelts, red and white stitching, it's pretty neat.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:47:08)
Durango in its current form has around for what, 12, 13 years now? And it's pretty impressive that you're still getting sales records with that after such a long time on the market. had some tweaks over the years, but it's still basically the same as what you launched, I think, about 2012, I think.

Matt McAlear (1:47:27)
And then we did a refresh in 15 and then 21.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:47:32)
⁓ So ⁓ the rest of the lineup, ⁓ the hornet's gone now, right? And so then it's just the chargers, the various chargers. ⁓ How's that going?

Matt McAlear (1:47:46)
It's terrific. We're just still in ⁓ ramp up mode. obviously last year we launched the 670 horsepower Daytona Bev and then we started shipping a few months ago the 550 horsepower twin turbo inline six six-packs. So we've transitioned production from focused on the battery electric with the changes in regulatory and now focused on our ice production. We shipped the two-door high outputs, the scap packs now for a few months and then just last month we started shipping the rest of the lineup. So now

We've got two-door and four-door Scatpacks and have two-door and four-door RTs which are the 420 horsepower. So by middle of April we'll start having cars fairly in all, you know, two-door, four-door, 420, 550 available across the country. So May will be our first kind of full month with good dealer stock around the country. And we just started the marketing launch last month in March, mid-month as we went into NCAAs.

things are starting. We've had month over month growth this month. We're starting to see dealers exciting. They're turning the cars quick. But it's still early in the launch, so the second half of the year is going be extremely exciting for Dodge as we've got the 392 back in the Durango. We've got all of our chargers on the lot and starting to hit our sales pace again.

Nicole Wakelin (1:49:06)
So you're talking about that you called the A-250, the American, I heard you call it A-250, like the lingo. How did that come to be? that's a big deal, 250. How did you guys decide, like, we're behind?

Matt McAlear (1:49:17)
So

that was all the way up to John Elkin and the team that decided that Stellantis was going to be the exclusive automotive partnership of the Americas 250 bipartisan celebration of our birthdays. So once that happened obviously we worked with the design studio and our teams to design a buzz model around A250 and then Olivier and team are working on a lot more from the marketing standpoints and activations over the summer as we go into the actual birthday around July 4th.

obviously the other brands are

Sam Abuelsamid (1:49:49)
Going back to the six pack and the ⁓ charger, ⁓ what's the customer response been to that so far?

Matt McAlear (1:50:00)
Customer response is, my gosh, once I drive it.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:50:05)
it that's all of the challenges to get a real one

Matt McAlear (1:50:08)
That's why we invite you guys out to the ride and drives and make you do it for us, right? Because a dealer buddy mine always says you have to grip the wheel to seal the deal and that's just it. they hear it online, they read about it online, but it seems believing and it didn't win five car of the year awards for not being impressive and when you actually feel what all-wheel drive and 531 pound-feet of torque can do and pin you to the back of the seat

or you can put in full rear wheel drive mode and roast the tires. mean it is absolutely, it's in a white space. It's always done what Dodge has done well and that is build something that's different. And I mean it's a full size, as wide as you can get in the industry without running lights. It's got SUV like cargo capability, all wheel drive capability.

Nicole Wakelin (1:50:57)
If it was any wider, would need running legs.

Matt McAlear (1:50:59)
Yeah, it's I think that much of medium running life. With incredible rear legroom, I've taken on road trips with people in the back and it's unlike anything else you can buy. Is it a track car? Is it a pony car? It's never what it was intended to be. It's Dodge. It's a muscle car. It's take your friends and family with you.

Nicole Wakelin (1:51:02)
That's kind of cool.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:51:19)
Yeah, the Daytona is a great cruiser. And that's the thing, when I drove the Daytona at the launch, the impression I came away from was, about the fact that it's electric. Just drive it. Just get in and drive it. I think that's part of the problem, is getting people to get ⁓ past whatever might be propelling this thing and just try it out.

And I think if people would do that, either one, the six pack or the electric, they would probably say, OK, maybe I don't need a V8 right now.

Matt McAlear (1:51:59)
You start to see it on the forums and you start reading about it you're like, okay, I went and Trest drove it. I didn't think I was gonna love it. I bought it. I mean, it doesn't take long for people to realize, yeah, this is something special. And it doesn't mean you have to fall out of love with V8s, right? We're not telling you to get rid of any of that. Heck, we still have standard V8s and Durangos. I'm not saying following, but we're saying if you want something that's far superior than your V8 that outgoing on the 57 to 64, those will blow it away all day long.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:52:15)
all over the line.

Nicole Wakelin (1:52:25)
And what do you think, like where the Dodge brand is now, where you have the EV and you have the Durango and you have the gas chargers, what do you hope the public perception is? They look at this.

Matt McAlear (1:52:34)
They look, they're here, they see this. What do you hope they think when they see that? I hope they just say, okay, we weren't sure maybe for a year, but Dodge is back. We should have trusted them. We should have maybe been quite so vocal.

Nicole Wakelin (1:52:49)
that people being vocal? No, I'd rather them talking than not talking, right? We still have such a passionate fan base and when we release a social video or an ad that the number of people that engage is just overwhelming. So I, you know, keep doing that, keep pushing us. Are we done with that car? Absolutely not. I mean, you look what we've done in a year and what we've brought out two-door, four-door, 420, 550, 670, colors, wheels, that's just in one year. We got a lot of stuff we're still working on. You never get it right.

out of the gate if you got right out of the gate there you'd have one car and be done and never have to evolve there wouldn't be a new cars you just get it so yeah you're always pushing the boundaries always making things better and I'm excited for the future so what you're saying is the charger Hellcat is coming back clarify for the podcast the handlers like no ⁓

anything else now that covers it for me all right i think that's a lot of that thank you very much that's good to see it ⁓