Sam Abuelsamid (00:00)
This is episode four hundred and fifty four of Wheel Bearings. I am Sam Abuelsamid from Telemetry.

Nicole Wakelin (00:05)
And I am Nicole Wakelin from Test Miles.

Roberto Baldwin (00:09)
And I am Roberto Baldwin from SAE International.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:13)
And how's everybody's week been? Did you all have a good long weekend?

Nicole Wakelin (00:16)
I did. I did too. They came to our place and Russ made ribs and brisket and we ate lots and lots of food. It was yummy.

Roberto Baldwin (00:16)
I spent it with family.

I had a family reunion. It went well. I did I did karaoke, I brought my Nintendo controller, which none of the kids wanted to play, but the adults played. ⁓ the kids all had they had like switch twos, they didn't even make and then I ate a lot of I ate a lot of Mexican food. we also played Como se dice. ⁓ and I lost immediately. It's a game where you say you say you have two people like pitted against each other, and then someone says

Nicole Wakelin (00:29)
How'd it go?

Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:37)
huh.

Nicole Wakelin (00:41)
yeah, that's the thing.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:47)
What is that?

Nicole Wakelin (00:48)
I so

Roberto Baldwin (00:54)
How do you say they s and then they s you know, how do you say cup in Spanish? And the first person to say it in Spanish wins. I'm not very good at it because when I speak Spanish I everything is context. I can't just like pick out words, but I can talk and disc I can have discussions, but I can't just like my brain doesn't work in the way that like, grab a word out of ⁓ it's Spanish. And so the they're like the the word they came up with I just added O to the end and then they all laughed and I walked away.

Nicole Wakelin (01:10)
Okay.

Just grab a word out of thin air.

Copo.

How so? Laptopo.

Roberto Baldwin (01:23)
So it was fine. Como se dice.

So if you if you have a fam a family that's that's, you know, in the United States but, you know, ⁓ Mexicans or you speak Spanish in some way, it's a fun game because, you know, I had big groups and everyone's like it was funny 'cause a little like a six year old kept beating people at one point.

Nicole Wakelin (01:31)
So

When you said you just

So when you just add O to the end, does anybody remember National Appun's European vacation? She's trying to make a phone call in Italy and she's like, I need a plane O to fly me homo now. please, ⁓ Like she adds an O to everything and she's on the phone desperately trying to get a flight, and that's all I can think of is you're saying that. Haven't seen that movie in 30 years, but it's still in there.

Roberto Baldwin (01:51)
Thank you.

⁓ it's right there. Anyway,

so yeah, Comasodice.

Nicole Wakelin (02:05)
Okay. Come on, see you say. All right.

Roberto Baldwin (02:07)
I'm I

don't I I would lose. I'm bad at it.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:08)
All right.

Nicole Wakelin (02:11)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:12)
Okay. ⁓ so Nicole, what you been driving?

Nicole Wakelin (02:16)
Been driving the oldie 2026 Subrus Soltero Limited. ⁓ which when it first came out was not it's not the old one, it's the 26. I was just gonna say when it first came out, it was not my favorite car. I really didn't like the old one. The old one had a lot to be desired. The new one, much different. Like they say, all new, next gem, whatever. It's got a larger battery, it has a larger range, it has faster charging, it has NAX compatibility, more horsepower, redesigned interior.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:22)
Hopefully it's not the old one. Hopefully it's the new one.

Nicole Wakelin (02:44)
Larger infotainment screen. Basically, all the things that were meh on the old one are now like, yay. Now I say yay, but it only has 288 miles of range, which is good for the most part. But it is, I did find driving it so as if I was driving 288 miles in a day. But that is a weird number if you're if you're someplace where chargers aren't abundant. Okay. You're suddenly driving around and you're you think, okay, wait, I'm getting to it. Where can I stop? Where's the charger on the way home from here? Because now I'm down to this many miles.

And I get a stop so we're gonna get a it is a little bit low. I would like it to be a scoche more, like just like 350 maybe, 325 would make me a little less anxious. ⁓ but still 208 miles is not nothing. it has the the next charging, okay. I loved 288. 288. So I didn't think it was fun. You live in California. See, that was it was very, very much.

Roberto Baldwin (03:19)
A scooch?

Two hundred and eighty? ⁓ that's fine.

Sam Abuelsamid (03:33)
Okay. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (03:36)
Of course, again, I live in California. It's like that's that's nothing. 288

is fine, like I could go anywhere in the state and be totally fine with it.

Nicole Wakelin (03:43)
Right. It's very much a

New Hampshire comment. Here, depending on where you've gone, as you're coming back, you're doing this sort of mental math. Like, wait, how far am I from that, that, and that? Do I need to worry about charging or am I good? And I discovered something that maybe you guys already knew, but I didn't know this because I have not run into this before. So we have a a a Grizzly charger in our house, just a level two regular charger that Russ uses to plug into his Wrangler. So it doesn't have the extra you know how there's the circular C C

I wanna say C C D, that's not it. That's catechism class. CCS, thank you. The CCS, there's like that five right CCR, whatever it is, and then there's the two pins at the bottom, you know, on the but ours just has the circle. It's just the it doesn't have the extra two pins. J1772. I don't have the what's I don't know what the number I knew that one. Jason, what's the number for the other one, Roberto SAE International? When it has the extra two little pins on the bottom.

Sam Abuelsamid (04:14)
C C S

Roberto Baldwin (04:14)
C C

S C Clarence Clear W Clear C C R the Clarence Clearwater Revival.

Uh-huh. Yep. J seventeen seventy two.

No, wait, that's not Jason. Yeah.

For for C C S

It's like J seventeen seventy two's blah blah blah something. Yeah, it's yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (04:43)
It's still but they're they're still J seventeen seventy t it's just CCS then?

Sam Abuelsamid (04:44)
It's just it's just C C S. See C

yeah, C C S is the combined one. So it's a J seventeen seventy two plus the two D C pins. The seventeen seventy two is just the the five pins for the A C charging.

Nicole Wakelin (04:47)
Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Roberto Baldwin (04:52)
Mm-hmm.

It's

the circle.

Nicole Wakelin (04:57)
Okay,

so it's just a circle. So we have the J1772, because that's all we need for the plug-in hybrid. And that works fine with everything, but they have a so

Sam Abuelsamid (05:05)
If you could actually

if you were actually allowed to plug in the plugin had.

Nicole Wakelin (05:08)
Right. Which I think we are again, because we got our battery replaced. As far as I know, I think we're good. We're in a window of golden opportunity. We can charge it. But so I didn't haven't run into this before, and everyone might know this, but so you have an adapter that you can click on the end of that to plug it into an axe port. But the adapter they gave me had the the CCS. It had the two extra DC pins on the bottom. Right.

Sam Abuelsamid (05:11)
Huh.

Roberto Baldwin (05:13)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (05:16)
Till next week.

Roberto Baldwin (05:29)
⁓ they gave you the the the D C adapter, but you have

to have the A C adapter as well. There's two different adapters. Yeah, well.

Nicole Wakelin (05:34)
Exactly. So the DC adapter won't work. You just have to have the

AC adapter. So I'm thinking, why what's happening? What am I and I'm thinking, wait a minute, is it because they gave me this? So I ordered one off of Amazon for 20 bucks. Plug it in paza. The car is charging. Then later on, I was digging around and found the Jason this the adapter I needed underneath the front seat. It like I turn a corner, I turn a corner and I hear like.

Roberto Baldwin (05:48)
Ta da.

It's l but now you have an extra.

Nicole Wakelin (06:00)
I'm like, what is that? And I go and it's like stuck under the under the the front seat. Now I have one of my own. So I always have one sitting up there. But I didn't I didn't realize that. Honestly, I didn't know that would cause a problem. I did not know until I tried to do it. Did you?

Roberto Baldwin (06:06)
Yay.

Sam Abuelsamid (06:11)
I actually had the exact same problem this week. I there's

a Kia E V nine in the driveway right now and I'm looking all over the place because ⁓ Hyundai ships their new EVs with both an A C and a D C adapter. And right. ⁓ I'm not sure if if Kia does or not, but the one that I've got does not did not have the A C adapter, although I did not look under the seats but I didn't hear anything rattling. So I

Nicole Wakelin (06:24)
They do, okay. Okay.

Roberto Baldwin (06:24)
I can confirm that I have both an A C and D C adapter in the back of my new Ionic five.

Someone stole it.

Nicole Wakelin (06:38)
Deer rolling around.

Sam Abuelsamid (06:40)
So I went on

Amazon and ordered one for next day delivery and got it.

Nicole Wakelin (06:43)
Yeah,

that's exactly what I do. It's twenty bucks, there we go. But forgot to put it, but now I have one that just just hangs on the little hook that we have for the where we plug the charging cable when it's not charging. So now I have that and I did

Roberto Baldwin (06:44)
I think someone probably stole it.

Sam Abuelsamid (06:46)
Probably. Or just forgot to put it back. It's probably sitting on the end of their charging cord at home.

Roberto Baldwin (06:49)
I'm

I'm gonna

pr three D print like little holders for the adapters for my car. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (07:01)
There you go.

Nicole Wakelin (07:02)
but

I did find I did try and charge it at a because at first I had no way to charge it at home. So I'm like, well, I better go go find a Tesla charger because I'm gonna run out of juice. So I went and it did the handshake much better. Some on occasion I've had trouble getting things to to non-Tesla vehicles to like Tesla chargers, but this one worked just fine. Although it was a pain in the neck where I lined up and you can't line up because your cable in the spot that they have painted, because the cable isn't long enough if you line up.

Sam Abuelsamid (07:02)
Good plan.

Roberto Baldwin (07:29)
⁓

Nicole Wakelin (07:29)
One if

you park in one C first station one C, the cable is not out. So I had to sort of park sideways. I'm like, but nobody wants one B because I'm parking part way in that to get there. So but so it worked. So

Sam Abuelsamid (07:41)
Wait.

You sh actually you shouldn't have to do that because they they moved the charge port this year. When they switched to the next they moved the charge port to the right front fender. So when you nose into the charger, you should be able to

Roberto Baldwin (07:51)
This Altera.

Nicole Wakelin (07:51)
Yes. When I nose

when I nose in, it had may have been ha when I nosed in to the charger at my charging station, when I pull straight in, it can't to the one when I pull into one C, one C's thing is on the far side. It's on the wrong side. It doesn't reach the car. It just didn't work the way they had it. So I couldn't, because Russ was laughing at me. He's like, move over, go over to the So I'm parked half in one C and half in like one whatever it was B.

Sam Abuelsamid (08:02)
Doesn't reach.

Huh, okay.

Nicole Wakelin (08:17)
Like I go over a spot and then I can charge because the one that was literally where you could pull up alongside it was used the entire time by some random non-Tesla vehicle. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Nope. It might be the ultra. Yeah, it it has a very tiny cord. The core would not reach. So I had to be a little sideway.

Sam Abuelsamid (08:25)
Yeah, 'cause 'cause 'cause they it should it should be able to you should be able to just pull up pull straight up to a charger. Yeah, 'cause it's diagonally opposite from

Roberto Baldwin (08:32)
It's probably just the old Tesla charger 'cause it has the tiny yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (08:37)
Yeah. Okay.

Roberto Baldwin (08:38)
Yeah. 'Cause the Tesla chargers

is like right there at the very edge of the the rear of the vehicle. So it's like right so the the the the the cable only has to be like a foot long or something stupid.

Nicole Wakelin (08:43)
Yeah, and this was this was not gonna work.

Sam Abuelsamid (08:45)
Well, except the cyber trucks aren't.

Nicole Wakelin (08:48)
Yes, it literally was. Like if the cable

Sam Abuelsamid (08:48)
The cyber trucks are far

Nicole Wakelin (08:49)
had been a foot longer, Robbie, it would have been fine, but I had to move over. So that was my only challenge. Otherwise, it worked quite well. Everything was great. as far as driving it, ⁓ it's it's nice to drive. It's not especially exciting. ⁓ I I like it better than the old one because it the the way they changed the ⁓ the steering wheel and sort of tunnel that where you see the instrument cluster. It used to be something where the steering wheel really blocked it. It was just terrible, and they've adjusted it. So now you don't really have that problem. ⁓

It's plenty powerful, you know, it it goes, you smash the gas and your little Subar Soltera will zoom zoom very nicely. And ⁓ it's zoom zoom. ⁓ starting price on brand right now, right? I'm on the wrong brand. Wrong brand. I did see a crystal soul red metallic like a Mazda. I don't even know what in the parking lot. So when I went to charge my little Soltera. And I don't know if they had just cleaned it or what, but the thing was like ha glowing rusted.

Roberto Baldwin (09:25)
Check out.

Sam Abuelsamid (09:28)
Wrong brand. Wrong brand. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (09:45)
Wow, that's really pretty car. I'm like, that's the crystal silver. Like, that's the that's the basta, the beautiful color. So it is gorgeous. They should still license that if they're ever in trouble and just make all the other OEMs pay big bucks to put it on their cars. And I would pick that paint on anything. ⁓ so it was so great to drive, you know, no problems with it. It was fine, it has a nice hefty little cargo area back there. We shoved a bunch of plants and a brisket and three wraps of ribs.

Roberto Baldwin (10:00)
Yeah.

Plant

and a brisket.

Nicole Wakelin (10:12)
Plants and a brisket, ⁓ a whole big bag of pellets for the smoker. ⁓ I think we had a few six packs of beverages back there and it was just happy as lark. All the stuff fit in there, no problem. So I did enjoy driving it. It's not, so the thing is I kind of feel like this is a this is an Eevee for Subaru people. I know it's a Subrew, but I don't see why you necessarily would buy this unless you were a Subaru fan who just really, really wanted an Eevee and was completely loyal to the Subaru brand.

Only because there's so much competition in the segment. And the limit I had is $41,395. That's a lot. I feel like there's a lot of other options out there that are a little bit cooler on the inside, a little less of that plasticky kind of feel, a little bit longer range that I might go with instead. But if you just live and die by having a Subi in your driveway, I feel like it's a it's not a bad car. I just feel like there's a lot. It's a competitive segment. And I'm not quite sure how competitive.

The Soltera is. That's my summation of the Subaru Soltera.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:18)
All right. did you have anything, Robbie?

Roberto Baldwin (11:21)
No, I but I think I broke to Discord. You guys keep going. Cause I thought I was like, are we live on here? And I was just like, is it on Discord? And then I accidentally hit something and now I've broken everything.

Nicole Wakelin (11:24)
You broke Robbie broke things.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:24)
Ha ha ha.

Nicole Wakelin (11:34)
⁓ well, you know. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:35)
It we we are live on YouTube. So

that that does seem to be working. here let me let me

Roberto Baldwin (11:40)
Hi everybody on YouTube. I don't

Nicole Wakelin (11:41)
It still says

live for eleven minutes and forty four seconds, so

Sam Abuelsamid (11:45)
Let's see. Yep. Yeah, Robbie. Yeah, we're still alive. Okay.

Roberto Baldwin (11:52)
Sorry everybody for sorry everyone on Discord. If anyone's on Discord as well, I've completely broken

Nicole Wakelin (11:55)
Ha ha ha!

Whoops.

Roberto Baldwin (11:59)
everything on Discord. I cannot get this thing.

Nicole Wakelin (12:00)
That's okay. Life will go on.

Sam Abuelsamid (12:01)
All

right. Well, I ⁓ I had the Kia sportage plug in hybrid. ⁓ and it was the ⁓ the X line prestige or something like that. ⁓ and now I I closed that tab and I can't remember. but it was it was it was the matte gray color. Well I I I right before we started I was rebooting ⁓ chrome.

Nicole Wakelin (12:08)
Ooh.

⁓ I have done that.

Sam Abuelsamid (12:28)
because I was having an issue with WordPress. I was trying to get the trying to get the the post set up for later and WordPress was giving me some headaches and so I rebooted and closed that window. So let's see. ⁓ so it was it's the Shadow Matte Gray. So this is the the it's a dark matte gray and the X line prestige all wheel drive. All the badges are black and the wheels are black. ⁓ and so you got all this black on gray. ⁓

Which, you know, i it's fine. The ⁓ you know, it's not it wouldn't be my favorite color choice, but but I c it's it can definitely live with it. ⁓ the ⁓ the changes they did to the ⁓ to the sportage last year for the the mid cycle refresh, it's got you know a little bit more a little bit blockier front end than it did when this generation first launched. So it's got more of a flat grill to it.

⁓ and yeah, they've they've done the you know, the kind of lightning bolt thing that they've done on all the IKEAs with the with the signature lighting that the running lamps on the front. ⁓ you know, so they've all got some sort of strange jagged pattern for the lights. ⁓ that that actually looks pretty cool. ⁓ the the interior, ⁓ you know, the this current generation of ⁓ sportage

⁓ got quite a bit larger compared to the previous generations. so the the rear seat is very, very roomy. the front, ⁓ this one is finished the interior is finished in what they call terracotta. ⁓ and it's Kia's version of ⁓ modern vinyl. you know, it is it is a ⁓ a a leather like material that did not come from the back of a formerly living creature

Roberto Baldwin (13:55)
Portage.

Nicole Wakelin (14:22)
Ha ha ha.

Sam Abuelsamid (14:22)
Or at least not anything that's been living in the last several million years. so ⁓ it's it's it's a good color combination. So the seats and ⁓ the lower part of the dashboard and the the door cards are finished in this terracotta color and then you know, there's it's co there's contrasting dark grey and blacks, ⁓ and some sort of ⁓ looks like probably fakish wood ⁓ on the center console. ⁓

And the yeah, see the the shifter is a rotary shifter, ⁓ same as the one they have in the E V six and some other models. lot you know, lots of nice features in this one. It's had a head up heads up display. ⁓ it's got full sunroof, ⁓ you know, panoramic sunroof in this one. ⁓ and the this the one that I had, like I said, is the plug in hybrid. ⁓ it's a relatively modest size battery compared to some of the other more recent plug in hybrids like the

the RAV four. So it's ⁓ it's a thirteen point seven kilowatt hour battery. It's rated at thirty three miles of electric range. ⁓ I took it on my usual loop and got thirty six miles before it ⁓ finally started the engine. and then you know over the course of a week of driving this and you know I drove it to multiple places. I drove it out to the Chelsea Provengrounds to see some

ridiculously powerful ram trucks. ⁓ drove it out to ⁓ Auburn Hills a couple of times for some other Stellantis stuff. And ⁓ over the course of a week it did it averaged ⁓ about f ⁓ fifty six miles per gallon in total over the week. ⁓ which is fairly impressive for a vehicle of this type. ⁓ let's see. ⁓ sorry. ⁓ just on Thursday.

driving two Auburn Hills and back. ⁓ or j actually just two Auburn Hills. so I started the morning, I left the house with a full charge, drove fifty one miles to Auburn Hills. ⁓ it the battery gave out after about thirty thirty four miles or so. ⁓ and ⁓ I averaged eighty two point four miles per gallon. ⁓ which you know they the way they calculate this is just your total mileage you know, divided by the amount of fuel you use.

Nicole Wakelin (16:41)
Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (16:50)
You know, so it's not including the the energy from the electricity that you used. but that's you know, this this is a vehicle that like you know, a lot of modern plug in hybrids, if you have some place to plug it in at home, ⁓ you can you can plug it in at night and be ready to go every morning, ⁓ you know, with enough charge for most people to do their daily driving without really using any electricity or using very

without using any gas or very little gas. ⁓ so, you know, it's got a smooth, comfortable ride. you know, when it's running in hybrid mode, it's it's very quiet still. ⁓ you know, under full acceler it's it's it's a you know it's ⁓ a Hyundai Kia hybrid system. So it's got a conventional six speed automatic transmission in there. There's no C V T no E C V T so you don't have any of that kind of

droning sound that you s often get on Toyota hybrids. ⁓ and ⁓ it's it's a really nice car to drive. ⁓ I if I was buying one, I probably wouldn't go for the X line prestige. I'd probably go for one of the the lower trim levels. ⁓ because this one is kind of pricey. ⁓ the X line prestige all wheel drive starts at forty seven one ninety ⁓ grand total for the one I was driving.

Forty nine thousand seven hundred and thirty dollars. ⁓ you know, up until a year ago, you could have got seventy five hundred bucks off of that, but that's no longer the case. ⁓ but you know, you can get the the lower trim levels, you know, down closer to forty thousand dollars. ⁓ and you know, Kia's doing a lot of deals on cars like this anyway. so you can actually probably get it for quite a bit less than that. but you know, the X line prestige is is pretty much loaded up.

Nicole Wakelin (18:17)
Mm.

Great.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:45)
you know, you've got two twelve point three inch displays, one for the instrument cluster, one for the infotainment, ⁓ you know wireless Android auto, wireless car play, there's a wireless charging pad, what else? ⁓ you've got lots of USB ports all over the place, ⁓ nineteen inch alloy wheels, and you know full suite of driver assistance features that you get on you know pretty much any modern car. ⁓ so you know

The the only ⁓ the only options on this were the the mat the shadow matte gray paint, which was only five hundred and ninety five bucks. ⁓ cargo mats, ⁓ floor floor mats and a cargo cover. ⁓ one interesting detail about the cargo cover, if you go back in the cargo area, ⁓ you can lift up the the floor there and there's another smaller cavity underneath where you can put things like your charging cable and ⁓

your you know other assorted bits and pieces. and ⁓ there's also space in there to put your cargo cover. So if you need to take the cargo cover out to put something larger you know, and you're folding down the back seats you gotta put something larger in the back. ⁓ instead of leaving the cargo cover in your garage and forgetting it there, you can just take it off and stash it underneath the floor. ⁓ so you got, you know, it's there with you. It's not really taking up any any space that would otherwise be useful.

Roberto Baldwin (20:07)
Cool.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:14)
⁓ and so it's it's a very handy feature to have. ⁓ any guesses on the destination charge?

Roberto Baldwin (20:21)
Fourteen.

Nicole Wakelin (20:23)
Twelve.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:24)
it's fourteen forty five. ⁓ speaking of destination charges, ⁓ I was looking up something else last week. ⁓ did you did you know that ⁓ the destination charges on pretty much everything have gone up yet again sometime in since we last talked about it a few weeks back?

Nicole Wakelin (20:26)
Ooh, wow.

Roberto Baldwin (20:26)
Girl.

I mean that makes sense. It costs more money to build cars because it costs more money for gas, which means everything shipping blah blah bla know, the whole petroleum thing, it's a it's not just like, my gas prices went up. Everything is going to go up.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:49)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (20:53)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:55)
So y you know with the destination charges on full size trucks and SUVs now?

Roberto Baldwin (21:00)
Like two thousand something ridiculous?

Sam Abuelsamid (21:03)
twenty seven ninety five.

Roberto Baldwin (21:05)
Twenty seven ninety five.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:09)
Last last time we talked about it it was only twenty five ninety five. At a year ago it was nineteen ninety five.

Nicole Wakelin (21:16)
Jeez, it's really creeping up there. It's getting expansive.

Roberto Baldwin (21:17)
Twenty seven ninety five. For a f

twenty seven ninety five. So much money. You could just buy a car with that money. I'm gonna go on Facebook Marketplace buy a car for the price of the the delivery charge for a full size truck.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:21)
Yep.

Huh.

Nicole Wakelin (21:28)
Ha ha ha

⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (21:38)
Although you know, you're not gonna get much car for twenty seven hundred bucks, but

Roberto Baldwin (21:43)
I saw a I saw a couple of cars. I mean they didn't have engines or anything like that.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:47)
Although there there is one that we'll talk about ⁓ a little later that ⁓ that somebody did get for eight hundred bucks, which was kinda interesting. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (21:53)
You can find deals. I mean it's

not easy and they're usually you know, secret problems. Secret problems.

Sam Abuelsamid (22:00)
So

so ⁓ in the past week we've had ⁓ the the launch of two new high performance, ⁓ very expensive four door electric cars. ⁓ one that the two of you both saw ⁓ out in LA. ⁓ you got to ride in it too.

Roberto Baldwin (22:18)
Uh-huh. I got to write in it and I still haven't gotten my video footage

Nicole Wakelin (22:20)
Mm.

Roberto Baldwin (22:21)
from that. Or I'd have a video to show y'all. I got another video, I threw it in the show notes that they can see me walking around and pointing at things.

Nicole Wakelin (22:25)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (22:30)
Okay. I'll I'll add that. ⁓ the and the other one ⁓ is a Ferrari. ⁓ so we got the Ferrari Luce that has now been f completely unveiled. ⁓ and the twenty twenty seven Mercedes AMG GT four door coupe ⁓ coupe.

Nicole Wakelin (22:46)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (22:52)
Coupe.

Nicole Wakelin (22:54)
Bay.

Sam Abuelsamid (22:55)
What what do what do you guys think of of these two cars? 'Cause I mean, they're actually they're actually very similar in a lot of ways. You know, they both both got over a thousand horsepower.

Nicole Wakelin (23:02)
Which one are we gonna talk about?

Roberto Baldwin (23:02)
I I

like the G T the AMG G T. I I except for the weird piano pi piano black like in the grill and in the back. Like when I saw it in in Germany and they asked me, I'm like, I don't like that part. Don't make that piano black. Make it flat black, make it something else. I don't know. But other than that, no, I think it's I mean if they threw a gas engine in it, it would

Nicole Wakelin (23:19)
Yeah. Little shiny.

Sam Abuelsamid (23:22)
So you're talking about the bar

in between the headlights, like above the grill or the grill it in the grill area itself? okay.

Roberto Baldwin (23:27)
The grill itself, where the the grill.

The grill is piano. They it doesn't really yeah, it's really shiny. It's weirdly shiny. It's the same thing in the back. It's piano black essentially. So other than that, I really like the car. I think it looks cool. I sat in the front and the back. and there's room for Robbie in both places. the yeah, they hit well they they they created a footwell in the battery for the people in the rear so people who are sitting in the rear seats can have their feet, you know, down as opposed to their knees up and their faces.

Nicole Wakelin (23:29)
Is shiny.

Sam Abuelsamid (23:44)
wow.

Roberto Baldwin (23:55)
So yeah, no, it's it's got a lot of room. ⁓ it goes real fast. It has that V eight thing, sure, why not? If that's what you need. I mean it sounded cool, but at the same time, like, ⁓ that's I mean, my thought on it is like it's a fun little gimmick, but at the end of the day I'm like, ⁓ fine, whatever. And when I was they

Nicole Wakelin (24:02)
Did you think what did you think of how it sounded?

They were so focused on it, on the fact

that we made it sound and we made it feel like a V eight. You're gonna think that there's a V eight engine under the hood, that it's gonna rumble that way and you're gonna feel it in the seat. There's little things to make the seat vibrate. Yeah. Could you feel it in a passenger seat?

Roberto Baldwin (24:24)
They you're gonna feel there's actuators in the seat when you turn it on. There's actuators in the seat that rumble. Yeah,

you can feel in the dri I well, I I I was in the driver's seat in Germany, I was able to turn it on and you could feel like the little like the s little rumble, you could feel in the passenger seat and

Nicole Wakelin (24:39)
Did it feel like

a V engine or just like weird actuators making a vibration thing?

Roberto Baldwin (24:42)
Sure, why not?

Sam Abuelsamid (24:43)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (24:43)
Why not? ⁓ and then it has this the the shifting was very impressive. when they were driving I was driving back and forth on I wasn't driving, I was in the passenger seat, but I was driven back and forth on the Sixth Street Bridge in LA and he was sh they he the the driver was doing the paddle shifters and it was really it I was like wow that's really cool. That that part was kind of cool. You don't need it, but it's fun. but there's so much torque w when he did a burnout that

Nicole Wakelin (24:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (25:11)
Even in the pasture, you could tell it was like there's none of that little tug that you have, you know, because the because the tires are trying to grab the road. That's immediately gone. Because there's so much torque. It's like 1153. Hold on, I got I got some numbers. It is it is an ins yeah. So I like it. I thought there's gonna be pe let's see. ⁓ torque is one thousand four hundred seventy five. That's what it is.

Nicole Wakelin (25:21)
Wee.

Yeah, it's a stupidly high number. It's a stupidly high number.

Roberto Baldwin (25:41)
For the AMG sixty three, the AMG G T fifty, the Torquis, it's only thirteen twenty eight.

Nicole Wakelin (25:46)
Wah wah Mm so low.

Roberto Baldwin (25:48)
But ⁓

I know how it That said, I mean it's like a sports car that I would like this thing's awesome. But is it a sports car the AMG buyers are gonna are going to buy? And so that's

Nicole Wakelin (25:52)
I even

See, that was the n

they they kept talking about that. They kept talking about how, no, we've made this th this is the E. V., the AMG EV that AMG enthusiasts are gonna buy. They're gonna want it, they're gonna like it, they're gonna buy it, they're gonna think it fills all their V eight dreams, they're gonna love it. And they say that they have

Roberto Baldwin (26:18)
It ticks

all the boxes for what you think what what should sell as an AMG GT EV. It it does all the things. Everything. But but at the end of the day, there's A, there's the p the politicization of EVVs for stupid reasons. There's people who just hate EVs. They never gotten in an EV. They never they don't know that the torque in this thing is gonna be gi you know, insane. They don't know how this car is gonna drive because none of it's a driven it. I've been in it, it drives I've seems to drive well. I don't know. I don't

Nicole Wakelin (26:24)
Right.

But it does.

Right. Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (26:47)
I don't know how it handles the chassis control. I talked to the to the engineers and they were very much like, no, we really worked on chassis control. Make sure this drives like an AMG. At the end of the day, though, that's you know, it's our people are going, you know, there's a lot of people who in the AMG community who are just going to discount it outright because it's an EV. Regardless if it's maybe the best EV ever built, maybe it's the best AMG ever built. Doesn't matter because it's an EV, they're like,

Nicole Wakelin (27:15)
Which is and I it what I couldn't get from the all the conversations that we had, all those eight hundred roundtables that they had us doing before the reveal, was I know what they said they were trying to do and how they were trying to make it sound like an EV and feel like an EV and have the heart and soul. I mean, excuse me, sound like a V eight, have the heart and soul of a V eight. Why not just make a V eight?

Sam Abuelsamid (27:37)
Well make VH too.

Roberto Baldwin (27:38)
I mean they're still gonna have the AMG the GT two door, the two door will still have a V eight in it.

Nicole Wakelin (27:39)
But why not still make this?

Yeah.

But why take it out of the four-door if if you're trying so hard to do something? It's like we have this really cool thing. It's an AMG. It's got a V eight in it. Is awesome. Everybody loves the V eight. Heart the V eight. It's an amazing thing, right? But let's take it out and just make the thing that we put in instead as close as possible, but not actually the V eight. Why don't you just put that in there?

Roberto Baldwin (28:04)
I you

know, I did an interview, it's gonna it'll be on wired later this week, I guess, with with Ola, with the CEO. And it's very much this like, yes, we're gonna have these vehicles, but the future is EV and we have to make sure that we can you know, essentially they have to continue to develop EVs because they do not want to be caught flat footed. It th and it was very much like if you think that you can just keep making only gas engines and th because that's your bread and butter, fine. We're gonna give people a choice.

Nicole Wakelin (28:07)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (28:32)
And when there is that transition and when the when people finally do like you know they it hits a tipping point like in Norway, China and other places where EVs are on the on the uptick, ⁓ you're gonna be you you're gonna be left behind because you've given up market share. I I always talk about how people are are are s essentially surrendering market share to Hyundai. Because Hyundai just keeps making EVs, they keep doing really well, and people keep buying them. And you know what the next thing those people are gonna buy? Another Hyundai.

And I think that's the same thing with or Genesis. And I so I think the same thing's, you know, Mercedes has the same idea. They're like, Yes, we're gonna keep making gas engines, but we're also we know what the future is and the future is electric and here is the future of sports vehicle sports cars. So

Sam Abuelsamid (29:02)
Or step up to a Genesis.

Nicole Wakelin (29:17)
I hope it drives as nice. I mean, 'cause like you said, on paper and you sitting in it and getting to go for a ride in it, it seems like it's gonna be really good. It seems like it's gonna be good, but I'm just very wary because you've had so many OEMs say, my gosh, REV is just like driving a a gas vehicle. It's the same experience, it's the same everything. And you get in, you're like, I mean, it's great, but it is not a gas vehic, you know, it just doesn't have the same feel.

Roberto Baldwin (29:42)
They you know,

he he put it they put in sport mode, they did the you know back and forth on the bridge, it felt very tight. I think I still think the TyCon is probably the best chassis control in the on in you know, if they at this point the TyCon's been out for what, six years, five years, a long time. So someone needs to be able to to to surpass their chassis control and I think if it's gonna be someone's gonna be Mercedes, it's gonna be AMG. to deal with physics, they're still, you know, a heavy battery. ⁓ battery th you know, chemistries are g getting better.

Nicole Wakelin (29:45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (30:11)
I asked a few months ago ⁓ some folks at Mercedes, the their new CTO, I forget his ⁓ unfortunately I forget his name, about ⁓ solid state and it didn't really have an answer for me, to be honest. I think the you know they're working with partners for solid state, so they're they're kind of relying on partners. You know, once you hit solid state, whenever that happens, solid state's been five years away for the last fifteen years. but solid state create you know, it gets rid of that heft if your battery can be sixty percent of the size.

and still have the same range or still have the same density, that means you have that range plus the extra range of being lighter, plus now your vehicle is is able to to recreate that that you know it removes that that heft that an EV has and goes, you know, you're essentially you're driving, you know, the the weight of an ice vehicle. So ⁓ yeah, I it's it's I think they they for for Mercedes they want to be, you know, at the forefront of EVs.

And you know, they and they want to sell in China.

Nicole Wakelin (31:10)
I that's fair.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:11)
And and you know, at

at least it looks it looks like what you would expect an AMG to look like, a modern AMG.

Roberto Baldwin (31:19)
It does, yeah. It doesn't it and so that's and then we come to the luche. Which it looks like

Sam Abuelsamid (31:23)
Which looks kind of like

Nicole Wakelin (31:25)
Lute.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:25)
a

kind of like a cross between a Jaguar eye paste and a squished Nissan leaf.

Roberto Baldwin (31:32)
It it is the coolest looking Honda EV I've seen so far.

Nicole Wakelin (31:35)
That's it.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:36)
Ha ha

Roberto Baldwin (31:37)
I

like the way it looks. I don't know how I don't know it's not it doesn't but it doesn't it to me where the AMG GT, like you look at it, you're like, Okay, yeah, that looks like an AMG. This this this looks like it looks like a really rad Honda. And for Ferrari people, they don't want a really rad Honda.

Nicole Wakelin (31:52)
They

Sam Abuelsamid (31:54)
Ha

Nicole Wakelin (31:54)
don't

Sam Abuelsamid (31:54)
ha.

Nicole Wakelin (31:54)
want a rad Honda, they want a rad Ferrari.

Roberto Baldwin (31:57)
Listen, if this

if Honda put this out for forty thousand dollars, like people will be all people be losing their minds. But it's not Honda. It's not Hyundai, it's not Toyota.

Sam Abuelsamid (32:05)
And it's and it

costs slightly more than forty thousand dollars.

Roberto Baldwin (32:08)
Yeah, it's it it is a Ferrari. And if if the if you think that AMG people are are are gonna are crazy.

Sam Abuelsamid (32:10)
At at at a st

Add add six hundred thousand to that and you've got the luche.

Nicole Wakelin (32:16)
Ha ha ha ha.

for a car I mean more party if you can get it you can get it but wow that's a lot

Sam Abuelsamid (32:25)
I mean you know

Roberto Baldwin (32:25)
I I

I like the way it looks. I don't know if it looks like a Ferrari though. And that's that's where the problem is. And I think people and to be honest, the internet is just full of people who hate things. I got like seven hundred thousand views on my unveil of the boohoosits, the the AMG G T. Ninety nine percent of them are all Eas V suck. This is ugly. This is stupid. This is da da da da da. Because that's just the internet. People just people want to be the funniest at saying something sucks. That's the internet.

Nicole Wakelin (32:49)
Yeah. That was the same thing. I th it a huge number of people. Yep.

If they can say it sucks, they're gonna say it. If they think it looks nice, they're just scrolling on to the next thing. So yeah. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (33:02)
So Nicole, what do you think of the Luce's design?

Roberto Baldwin (33:02)
Anyway.

Nicole Wakelin (33:05)
I d you know what? It's weird. I don't really dislike the Luce's design. No, it's not that I I well, it's here's the thing, it's not that I don't like it. I actually think it's fine, but not as a Ferrari. It just doesn't look like a Ferrari to me. I I feel like when you are, you know, that brand has such heritage and such history and such expectation that there's a certain something you want to see in a Ferrari.

Roberto Baldwin (33:11)
I'm in the minority of liking it by the way, so

Sam Abuelsamid (33:13)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (33:32)
And all it looks really wild and it looks out there. I don't hate the design itself. I do not like that it's a Ferrari. It doesn't look like a sporty, it doesn't have this. I don't know, it doesn't have Ferrari vibes. It it like is it. It gives it gives us really good Honda vibes, it gives off really good Nissan Leaf vibes, does not

Sam Abuelsamid (33:44)
It it would have made a really cool Apple car.

It's even got some

charger in it 'cause it's got that same kind of slot through the grill and up over the hood.

Nicole Wakelin (33:55)
Yeah, that's true.

It gives off everything but you know what it doesn't give off Ferrari vibes. That's weird to me. That's weird. So that's what so I don't dislike the design overall. I just feel like it's a very odd Ferrari is where I am.

Roberto Baldwin (34:02)
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

I mean we could be col I mean, I remember, you know, when I drove the ⁓ the Otis, the Lam I I you know like this this car. I mean you're gonna sell a billion of these cars, but if you went online, everyone's like, This is the worst thing that's ever happened to Ferrari to make an SUV, same thing. Every time you know, the Porsche's, you know, the Mican, the the Cayenne, everyone's like, this is the stupidest thing, these are d these are a abomination, da da da Hey, you what? They can make all those nine elevens because of of how many they can make one thousand iterations of the nine eleven

Because they sell so many Makans and Cayans. And and you know, the number one selling Ferrari is the Urs. So I mean I don't think this is gonna be that, but it's it's also the sort of purest ⁓ I'm sorry, top s top selling Lamborghini is ⁓ the Urs.

Nicole Wakelin (34:40)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:45)
You mean Lamborghini?

Top selling Lamborghini, not Ferrara.

But it but at least

the aurus, you know, has the design language of modern Lamborghini. Yeah. It it looks like a Lamborghini. You know, it's it's obviously different, but I mean it it it looks like what you expect a a Lamborghini of of this decade to look like. This does not look anything like what you would expect a Ferrari to look like, at least on the outside.

Roberto Baldwin (35:16)
I yeah, again, it's of the gre it's the coolest looking Honda EV I've ever seen. Throw throw some Honda power, make a V Tech EV, I don't care.

Nicole Wakelin (35:17)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:20)
And yeah, some some of the

Nicole Wakelin (35:21)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:27)
Some of some of the the wheels like the I there's I've seen pictures of a yellow one with these really ⁓ weird looking fan wheels. ⁓ and it it's just I don't know, there there's a lot of lot of details about this that I just don't like. And I think I think Johnny Ive should probably not be designing cars.

Nicole Wakelin (35:45)
Ha ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (35:53)
Well, I mean, if you look at the interior, which from people who went there, they said they they they they really love the interior. I think it's Johnny Ive chasing that iPhone four v you know, high which is really like that sort of, you know, that German bra like engineering or design high. ⁓ I he's it that's yeah, that's his thing. But it is a it's it's a weird car, man. And it's a it you know, I I I

Sam Abuelsamid (35:56)
The interior's good.

Nicole Wakelin (35:57)
Interior actually don't mind at all. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:05)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (36:21)
Salute them for trying something crazy and weird, but also you again, Ferrari people are I so I had the super fast. I didn't know I there was no instructions on how to put in launch mode. So I called Ferrari. I'm hey, there's no there was no owner's manual in the car. And I'm like, hey, can I can I get the owner's manual? Can you send me a PDF? Can you and the person didn't know how to put it in launch mode either, the the person I was talking to.

But they couldn't send me a copy of the PDF or anything because they were like, Yeah, we can't send you anything because people like get those and they sell them online I was just like

What is wrong with people? But Ferrari also puts like you can only buy this car if you buy this car and you can only do this if you do this and it's it's such a weird little club that, you know, they'll sell like seven of these and I guess it'll be fine. I don't know. I don't know how they're

Sam Abuelsamid (37:05)
Yeah.

I mean Ferrari sells I think last year they sold about eleven thousand cars. Yeah, so you know, they'll probably sell a few hundred, you know, maybe a thousand of these at most. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (37:29)
Say they sell at least a thousand. If they stick with it.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:31)
Yeah. There 'cause

I mean there there are people, you know, who will buy whatever Ferrari put you know, gives them.

Nicole Wakelin (37:37)
Mm.

Roberto Baldwin (37:38)
Yeah. It's got the same little circle he light.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:43)
All right. ⁓ shall we carry on then? ⁓ so last week was also kind of Stellantis week around here in Michigan. ⁓ they had three days of stuff going on. they started off on Tuesday last week out at the Chelsea Proving Grounds. where Tim Caniscus was in his prime. It was it was a it was a Tim kind of day. The sun was shining, it was hot

Nicole Wakelin (37:46)
Sure.

Sam Abuelsamid (38:12)
And he had three hot V eight powered trucks to unveil. ⁓ they they they launched the the Ram fifteen hundred Rumble B line up. Which is actually there's actually four, but they ha they only had three of them there to show us. So Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (38:27)
That seems weird, but okay. We got four cars. Do you have them

Nicole Wakelin (38:30)
Ha ha ha

Roberto Baldwin (38:31)
all here? Nah

man, we only got four three of Wait, where was the other one?

Sam Abuelsamid (38:33)
They they

didn't have the three ninety two track pack. That was the only one that was missing.

Roberto Baldwin (38:38)
It's like

you got the Beatles and then like John couldn't show up. Like we got all four of ⁓ Really? Which well, but John couldn't make it. He had a thing he had to do.

Sam Abuelsamid (38:41)
Yeah.

So, you know, the for for the Rumble B, you know, this was not just a matter of, you know, lowering the suspension and and putting a big V eight engine in it. They actually did a lot of stuff to this because this is the only version of the Ram fifteen hundred ⁓ that is a shortbed quad cab. So, you know, they've got three different cab variations that they sell on the fifteen hundred. So they've got the the standard cab.

The quad cab, which is a four door but with a relatively compressed rear seat area. So not really that comfortable for for adults. ⁓ and then the crew cab. And so what what Tim explained was that you know the you know they only only three percent of all full size trucks sold to now are standard cabs. Everything else is either a quad cab or a crew cab. That's across the industry.

Roberto Baldwin (39:38)
Is that s is that everyone or just Stellantis trucks?

Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (39:44)
So three percent standard cabs. Everybody everything else is extended cabs or crew cabs. ⁓ Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (39:50)
It makes sense, but I see a lot of single cabs around here for some weird

reason. Every time I see one I'm like, whoa It's like I saw a unicorn.

Nicole Wakelin (39:55)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (39:58)
and you know, they you know, they you talked about, you know, back when they had the the back in the eighties when they had the little red truck, and then they had in the nineties they had the the or actually it was the two thousand early two thousands they had the Ram fifteen hundred SRT with the Viper engine in it. These all had standard cabs and they they kinda liked the the stance of the you know and the the look of the shorter body, the shorter bed. ⁓ yeah, and so they decided to make

quad cab, the it's the extended cab with ⁓ with a short bed. But they didn't that's not a a combination that they currently build. So they had to design an all new frame for that. They they shortened it 13 inches so they could fit the short bed and the quad cab together. ⁓ and then it's got the wide body ⁓ sheet metal from the T R X and the RHO all on this this combination and then they lowered the suspension you know and

It's all V8 engines. So you can get the base model, the base Rumble B with the five point seven liter Hemi, which is three hundred and ninety-five horsepower. ⁓ you can get the three ninety-two, ⁓ which has the six point four liter Hemi, four hundred and seventy horsepower, which by the way is still seventy eighty horsepower less than the high output hurricane. ⁓ but you know, hey, you can still have it if you want. ⁓

And ⁓ or you can get the ⁓ SRT which has the Hellcat engine in it. and then there's also a track pack version of the three ninety two. so they all have standard all wheel drive, but they also have ⁓ you know, on the drive modes they have a rear wheel drive mode. So it's not they don't call it two wheel drive, they call it rear wheel drive. So you can go drifting with it. ⁓ and you know, smoke the rear tires all the time.

Yeah, and just, you know, turn turn your rubber into s into a big cloud of smoke. ⁓ you know, no information on pricing. They're coming out late this year. and the the three ninety two and the five seven come with standard cloth seats, you know, so they're trying to keep the keep the cost down. you know, the SRT will have leather sports seats. You know, they look pretty cool, but you know

When gas is five, six, seven dollars a gallon and you know, eight or more for premium which you're gonna need in that SRT. Is this really the right time to be launching this kind of truck?

Roberto Baldwin (42:32)
yeah.

I mean they didn't know. It wasn't I mean the the the timetable to build these and to develop and blah blah blah. They weren't like, ⁓ you know, by the time we do it, the gas is gonna be crazy. It's it's like when Honda killed the EVs like the same day gas went up. It's just bad timing.

Nicole Wakelin (42:46)
That's the thing. It's so hard.

Right. They're trying to make

plans that have to be done so many years in advance of actual events and they're guessing it which way things are gonna go and they guess wrong on occasion and it's you gotta cut your losses quickly and sometimes it works out and sometimes it was stupid to try and cut your losses.

Roberto Baldwin (43:07)
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how many people actually buy these 'cause they're gonna be pressy and they're gonna be pressy to drive. But also, you know, truck dudes will put you know, they'll put like half of their paycheck and just at their you know, the car payments, so great.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:21)
Yeah, I mean that

that SRT, the the Hellcat, is definitely gonna cost at least a hundred thousand dollars minimum.

Roberto Baldwin (43:27)
Yeah.

Yeah. But then they're gonna show their friend Look at this.

Nicole Wakelin (43:33)
Look at this, see how cool

this is? Listen to the sound of it.

Roberto Baldwin (43:37)
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Nicole Wakelin (43:39)
Would you believe it's an E V? No.

Roberto Baldwin (43:41)
People are gonna be

angry 'cause it doesn't have a hemi. That's fine. They're like, Well you didn't put you put a hellcut, you didn't put the hemi in there? It's like, come on guys. I really need you to just look at a spec sheet once. Just once.

Nicole Wakelin (43:43)
They right. They'll forever be angry about that.

Total waste, dude.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:56)
⁓ so the next day, yeah, th on Thursday, ⁓ you know, so this was Tuesday when they unveiled the Rumblebees. Thursday was their investor day. On Wednesday in between, they had a little ride and drive program out at their ⁓ headquarter North American headquarters in Auburn Hills. And they had some ⁓ North American market vehicles and some European market vehicles. ⁓ yeah, and

The only one of the North American market vehicles I hadn't driven yet was the new Cherokee. I took that for a short lap and it was fine. Yeah, still gotta get one of those for for a proper review. ⁓ but I was really interested in driving some of the the European spec vehicles. And so I I drove two of those. one was the Fiat Grande Panda. So they have two versions of the the panda that they sell in Europe. there's a smaller one and then there's the the Grande Panda is like a little mini crossover.

and it's a it's a mild hybrid. It's a one point three liter ⁓ four cylinder engine with a forty eight volt mild hybrid system on it. And this thing is so cool. It was so much fun. It I mean

Nicole Wakelin (45:04)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (45:05)
And the panda

has been around for so long and they all the pandas are good pandas, from what I've been told. I've never driven a panda because I live here.

Sam Abuelsamid (45:09)
Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓ yeah, the the one the one that they had was this cool, you know, b bluish green color on the outside. And on the the s the door panels, they've actually got the the name panda stamp stamped into the the across the door panels. So it's it's pretty funky looking. ⁓ and then the interior of the of the one that ⁓ that I was driving had ⁓ this wild ⁓ green like neon green

lighting and ⁓ some other interesting materials. It was really fun to look at and it was fun to drive too. you know, I mean it's not real speedy, but it's it's quick enough. ⁓ yeah, and yeah, this this thing is like I think under twenty thousand Euros in Europe. which makes it you know really dirt cheap. ⁓ the other one that I drove ⁓ was the the Opal Astra ⁓ wagon ⁓ plug in hybrid.

Which also fantastic looking car. ⁓ really f ⁓ it was in this fantastic green shade of green. and ⁓ really nice interior. ⁓ it'll go fifty miles on a charge, with when you plug when you charge it up, ⁓ and then you know, it gets really amazing fuel economy after that. ⁓ they've they've got some really good stuff in Europe. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (46:39)
Yeah.

We don't like whimsy in this country though. We don't like whimsier fun. Or a whimsy free nation.

Sam Abuelsamid (46:41)
No. They they yeah. We

Nicole Wakelin (46:43)
No whimsy. We are whimsy free.

Sam Abuelsamid (46:47)
they they they did have a ⁓ a couple of jo jeep recons out there that ⁓ yeah, ⁓ but nobody was allowed to drive in or even sit in or anything. They were just they were just parked there so they you know, they could look fun. ⁓ so on ⁓ on Thursday at the investor day, that's when things got really interesting.

Roberto Baldwin (46:56)
cool.

Nicole Wakelin (46:56)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (47:00)
⁓ Think about them.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:11)
So, you know, they had Antonio Felosa, the new CEO, come up and ⁓ talk, you know, and ⁓ you know, announce, you know, some high level stuff about ⁓ Stellantis' strategy going forward and how they're gonna cut costs and ⁓ you know, they're gonna they're gonna focus on four main global brands. ⁓ you've got ⁓ Jeep and Ram and Peugeot and Fiat. So, you know, Peugeot is gonna be the

you know, a little more premium mainstream brand ⁓ for global markets. Fiat is focused on small cars and micro mobility. And then Jeep and RAM, which, you know, Jeep is off roaders and RAM is trucks. ⁓ and then Tim Caniskis came out and he laid out the plan, he showed the whole plan for what was coming for North America, for the North American brands. And we finally got to see

Roberto Baldwin (47:52)
Or J Pen Ram.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:09)
what they're doing with Chrysler. Chrysler Chrysler's gonna live for a while anyway. ⁓ they're adding three new models to the Chrysler lineup. ⁓ the airflow, ⁓ which we've seen as a concept, but the the the one that they're gonna build is looks completely different from the concept they had a couple of years ago. ⁓ and then there's gonna be two two variants ⁓ built by Fiat. They're versions of the ⁓

Fiat Grizzly. So it's a compact crossover. one is, you know, more traditional crossover shape. The other one is a fastback. And the the greenhouse on that looks very much like a Polestar two. that yeah, that was as soon as everybody saw it, so yeah, it looks like a Polestar Two. Or or the current Ford Capri E V that they sell that ⁓ Ford sells in Europe.

Roberto Baldwin (49:01)
Automakers

love when you say that their car looks like a got other car.

Nicole Wakelin (49:04)
They get so happy. Like yay, we did it. We look like somebody else.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:05)
Yeah. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (49:10)
Ha

ha ha.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:10)
So,

⁓ yeah, they're the but the the the two ⁓ Fiat based cars are going to be they didn't say where they're gonna be built. So they're probably gonna be built in Italy with with the with the Grizzly. but they are gonna be priced under thirty thousand dollars. ⁓ and you know, ⁓ they they mentioned you know, Tim mentioned that right now in North America

Roberto Baldwin (49:30)
nice.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:38)
Stillantis only has two vehicles that are priced under forty thousand dollars. One is the compass and ⁓ one is the the base Wrangler. Everything else is over forty thousand dollars. By twenty Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (49:50)
I'm always surprised that compass still exists. Every time

someone says compass I'm like, yeah, that's a thing.

Nicole Wakelin (49:54)
It feels like one of the ones that should have been already cancelled. You're like, wait, did I no? They just didn't like it. Okay. Yeah, I agree.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:00)
By by twenty thirty they plan to have nine models under forty thousand dollars and two of those under thirty thousand dollars. The two the the Chrysler Arrow and the Arrow Cross, which are their versions of the Fiat Grizzly. and ⁓ there's also going to be ⁓ a Dodge ⁓ a new Dodge ⁓ midsize crossover called actually they're not calling it a crossover, amazingly enough. ⁓ they're calling it a muscle hatch. It's the Dodge GLH.

⁓ do you guys remember the Omni GLH from the nineteen eighties?

Nicole Wakelin (50:34)
No.

Roberto Baldwin (50:35)
Yes,

I do remember the Omni. What a weird little car.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:37)
It it w basically it was ⁓ Chrysler's take on on the the original VW Golf. It was o yeah, it was basically a clone of the golf. and the GLH, they put a turbo on it and big tires and it had in immense torque steer, but people had a lot of fun with those things. at least until they you know, until it steered off into a ditch or something. but ⁓ they're they're bringing back the GLH name on this

mid size two row crossover. and ⁓ what else? ⁓ Jeep is adding several new models. they did confirm that the recon will be launching in the in the second half of the year, we think. They're claiming it anyway. but it will also in twenty later in twenty twenty seven they will get a version with an internal combustion engine as well. ⁓ and then for RAM

Nicole Wakelin (51:24)
We think.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:36)
They confirmed the Dakota and the Rampage is also coming. So we're gonna get

Roberto Baldwin (51:42)
I mean they confirmed.

I mean I until I see these things. That's a f listen, I'm excited that the Rampage is coming back. 'Cause I love it's a it's a great name. Rampage.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:45)
Well, I mean, this is the first time they've actually said they're gonna sell it here. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (51:53)
It is a cool

day.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:54)
And and they're and they're gonna build the rampage somewhere in North America. They didn't say the US, they said they're gonna industrialize it locally, whatever that means. Probably. ⁓ and also the ramp charger. ⁓ so they've got the the the full size ⁓ the ram take on the wagoneer.

Roberto Baldwin (52:02)
Mexico.

Nicole Wakelin (52:04)
Yeah. Could very much well mean that.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:13)
but it doesn't have any of the Wagoneer sheet metal. so it's not a big box on wheels like the Wagoneer. ⁓ and then ⁓ they took us into the design dome and they you know we couldn't have any cameras in there or any recording stuff. but but we got to see all of this stuff. and so, you know, we saw the we saw the Chrysler arrow and the Arrow Cross and the airflow

Nicole Wakelin (52:30)
Hide everything.

Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:41)
⁓ and the GLH. The GLH looks really cool. It it's kind of like ⁓ kind the shape the overall shape is kind of like an Ionic five. So it's got that that you know, slightly larger hatchback shape, but the front end looks a lot like the charger. ⁓ and it's a it's a cool looking car. ⁓ we also saw ⁓ the ⁓ a refreshed version of the Wrangler.

they also had a Charger SRT, which they didn't say what was under the hood, but it had the same kind of scoops and vents that you have on the hood of a Challenger Hellcat and a Charger the old Charger Hellcat. So it was obvious, you know, and and and it had a big giant wing on the back on the on the rear deck. It was clearly a Hellcat charger. They're they're gonna do it. and ⁓ and then ⁓ so they had a refreshed version of the Wrangler, not an all new Wrangler.

Nicole Wakelin (53:15)
Mm.

Kind of gave it away.

It's awesome. Yay.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:41)
But it's getting a new grill, at least.

Roberto Baldwin (53:44)
What?

Nicole Wakelin (53:44)
Ha

ha ha

Sam Abuelsamid (53:45)
and ⁓ we also saw and the the gladiator is now gonna be called the Wrangler Gl Gladiator, not just Gladiator. Yeah, because they they use they used to try and say, no, this is not a Wrangler with a pickup bet on it. It's something different. No. Yeah. Yeah. Well, by calling it a Wrangler gladiator, now on their sales numbers, they can bundle it in with the regular Wranglers and so they can they can they can they can

Roberto Baldwin (53:53)
The Wrangler Gladiator?

What? Why would they it's just a Wrangler with a pickup bed on it.

Nicole Wakelin (54:01)
And it is a regular where they pick a bet on it.

Roberto Baldwin (54:12)
and they don't have to break it out.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:15)
make it seem like they sell more Wranglers than Ford sells Broncos. ⁓ yeah. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (54:16)
⁓ got it. It's a little shell game.

Roberto Baldwin (54:19)
I sure What

is the so so then they talked about the Scrambler. Did they have the Scrambler in there?

Sam Abuelsamid (54:26)
Yeah, so the Scrambler

is a two door sort of pickup SUV. You remember ⁓ like the first generation ⁓ Toyota Four Runner? It had a cap on the back that you could take off. So it was a four seater, two door, four seater, and you could take the cap on off on the back and make it look sort of like a pickup truck with back seats.

Roberto Baldwin (54:47)
It's just a

it's just a two door Wrangler with a bed.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:50)
Yeah. But longer than a regular two door Wrangler. So it's pretty cool looking. But both the Wrangler and the Gladiator are getting a new front end that ⁓ you know, some of the concepts they've had in the last couple of years, like the convoy, where they had the old Jeep J ten style front end, the shark nose front end that was leaning forward like they had on the pickups in the nineties. They're they're putting that on the the gladiator and the scrambler. ⁓ which looks looks pretty cool. ⁓ the ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (54:52)
Take off. You can take all the bits off.

Nicole Wakelin (55:12)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:20)
What else? the the RAM charger, you know, it's a big giant SUV. looks like a RAM. ⁓ the Dakota ⁓ looks like a smaller RAM. ⁓ looks good. One of the ⁓ the key things they mentioned about the Dakota is it, you know, it's about the same overall length as like a Ranger Colorado Canyon, but it's wider, so you got a wider cab, so there's more room in the cab. ⁓ and of course, because it's wider, you could probably also fit a V8 engine in it.

'Cause you know, it's Tim.

Nicole Wakelin (55:50)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (55:51)
Just gonna put

expensive V eight engines and everything. Everything's a hemi. I I you what? I told him make everything a hemi. I kept saying it. Might as well. What's a ⁓ everything a hemley. What it what's the rampage? That's the Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:55)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, they're doing it. Except for the rampage. I don't think they're gonna fit a hemi into the rampage.

The

and the rampage looks exactly the same as the one they already saw in South America. So I don't think they're gonna change anything significant about that. And then the last thing that we saw was the Dodge Copperhead. ⁓ which yeah, ⁓ yeah, back in the late nineties they had a concept, called the Copperhead, which was a a two seat Miata type roadster, which looked really cool, but ⁓ they never built that. ⁓ but now they're using that name

Roberto Baldwin (56:13)
Alright.

Nicole Wakelin (56:22)
Like that name.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:38)
on what is essentially the spiritual successor to the Viper. ⁓ they you know they didn't give us any technical details, but yeah, it's got a big wing on the back. Yeah, it's got elements of the Viper design, but the front end looks more like the like the chart like the current charger. and it will almost certainly have a Hellcat V eight of some sort under the hood.

Roberto Baldwin (57:01)
Mm-hmm. Will it kill people like the Viper? 'Cause the Viper loved killing people. Absolutely love it. It was a murder car. The car would just kill people. Only the only the first generation, only if you drove it. It was

Sam Abuelsamid (57:02)
⁓ probably. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (57:06)
That was a hard car. I never drove it. I've only ridden in a Viper. Everyone said it was so hard to drive.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:10)
Actually only the first generation and only if you did stupid stuff with.

Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (57:17)
Only if you drove only if you drove it. Otherwise

Sam Abuelsamid (57:19)
Hey, I drove a first generation Viper. I'm still here.

Nicole Wakelin (57:19)
you were fine. Just don't drive it. Just you, you're the only one still around, Sam. Everybody else, gone.

Roberto Baldwin (57:23)
Barely.

You're the only one left.

Dead. D E D dead. It's a lot of stuff for a company that doesn't have a lot of money, so we'll see. Fingers crossed for them.

Nicole Wakelin (57:31)
D E D Dad.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:32)
⁓ so lots of

He well, they're they're

Nicole Wakelin (57:36)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:37)
gonna be spending sixty sixty billion Euros over the next five years on all their plans for North America and Europe.

Roberto Baldwin (57:44)
Expect

more ads in your ⁓ in your Stellantis vehicles to pay for this.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:48)
Yep.

⁓ they they also announced that they're partnering with Wave and Qualcomm to put in level two plus plus automation into their cars starting in ⁓ well they're doing level two plus with Wave starting next year and then the two plus plus point to point stuff in twenty twenty eight. ⁓ so yeah, we'll see. Believe it when we see it.

Roberto Baldwin (58:13)
They

th all they have to do is say they're working on autonomous cars and their stock price will go up. That's it. You don't have to actually do anything. No, but they didn't say autonomous. They didn't say level three. They have you have to say it Yeah, but they didn't have to have any you gotta say we're working with with with NVIDIA. You have to work with someone big and we're working on this and we're gonna make this thing and then Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (58:18)
Whoosh.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:18)
Yeah, well

it didn't it didn't go up. Nob nobody cared.

Nicole Wakelin (58:20)
Did

it did any did ⁓ what did this talk do? Did anyone look?

Sam Abuelsamid (58:22)
He did it

did say autonomous. They used the word autonomous. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (58:37)
That's where the money's at. Line.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:39)
Ha ha.

Nicole Wakelin (58:40)
Wow, Robbie's like on fire. Liars.

Roberto Baldwin (58:43)
Lies.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:43)
So

Stellantis has got lots of plans. We'll see if they can actually execute on any of it. And, you know, the the North American plans were very V eight heavy. ⁓ you know, we'll see, you know, how that plays out in the marketplace over the next couple of years, you know, if if gas keeps you know, if gas prices stay high, it could be a challenge for

Roberto Baldwin (59:07)
It's the same engine. They d they don't have to build all of Toyota still hasn't made our little baby F J Cruiser E E E V, so

Nicole Wakelin (59:16)
Wow.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:20)
Well, right at this point, I think we'll probably see that before we see much much more electric stuff from Stellantis. At least in North America.

Roberto Baldwin (59:27)
yeah, they

They got to they got to throw a bunch of money at somebody and have come over and teach how to build E Vs. That's pretty much how it has to work. So it's a company that needs to make money. They don't have yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:38)
⁓ well that's what Leap Motor's for.

They're they're part they they are partnering with with Leap Motor. They own about twenty percent of Leap Motor. And so they're partnering with Leap Motor and with Dongfeng ⁓ for EVs for Europe ⁓ and for Asia. But ⁓ and they're they're gonna be building Leap Motor EVs at a plant in Spain. ⁓ and ⁓ that they're also gonna build an Opal badge, the next generation Opal Corsa.

is gonna be an E V based on the lo based on the Leap Motor B ten. ⁓ and that'll be coming out I think mm late next year.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:19)
All right, we'll see. So I'll go to Europe.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:19)
⁓

There's there's also ⁓ a new Citron two C V. The Deux Chavaux is coming back. we got to see it. The the two C V. it's it's coming back. ⁓ yeah. When when you s there's ⁓ in the link in the show notes, ⁓ there's they put out a teaser video and right at the very end you can s kind of see the profile of it.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:25)
Woohoo!

What is it called?

⁓ tissue. Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:50)
And you know, it doesn't it d when you see it it doesn't really look you know, it's not like a direct copy of an old two C V, but it you know, you'll recognize it immediately as a two C V. It's got the bits it needs. Yeah. And they're gonna be unveiling that in October at the Paris Motor Show. But we got to s we got to see it.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:01)
It's got the bits. It's got the bits. It's got enough bits.

Nicole Wakelin (1:01:03)
It has enough to look like it is, yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:10)
What was the what was the the

what was the suspension rule? Like you had to be able to drive over a field without spilling champagne or eggs or something Yeah. Something

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:17)
Yeah, something like something crazy like that.

It had this crazy compliance suspension system in it.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:25)
Yeah, you had to be able to drive over a rutted field without breaking an egg or something crazy.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:30)
Yeah.

⁓ all right, let's let's carry on. ⁓ that's enough of Stillantis. You can you can read more about that and just go to the show notes and click on the links. ⁓ so ⁓ we've talked I talked we talked before about a video from Rich Rebuilds. it's a YouTube a pretty fun YouTube channel. ⁓ this guy buys decrepit cars really cheap and then tries to get running again. ⁓ the latest one that he bought

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:39)
don't say that too loud 'cause that might be enough of Stylantis.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:03)
yeah, Paul Paul Kavanaugh in the in the chat says it was a basket of eggs. You can't break yeah. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:07)
Basket of eggs, thanks, Pa.

Nicole Wakelin (1:02:07)
Basket of eggs. There we

go.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:09)
I looked it up, yeah. You have to in in the passenger seat you couldn't have the basket of eggs. So and it wasn't like you know, this was this is before you had the little things that held all your eggs separate. You just had a s you know wicker basket. You really had a basket of eggs.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:13)
Yeah.

Yeah. You literally had a basket full of eggs.

Yeah. ⁓ so anyway, ⁓ Rich ⁓ Rich bought ⁓ an old ⁓ Audi A eight ⁓ for that was originally eighty seven thousand dollars. he got it for eight hundred bucks from a state trooper in Massachusetts. ⁓ when you first look at it, it looks looks to be in pretty decent shape. I mean the body's straight, you know, the paint

Paint's all good. It looks looks good. ⁓ and then they put it up on the hoist and were starting to take a look underneath. And ⁓ when they got to the front subframe, ⁓ it was not good. It's it's like it had been just sitting there soaking in a Massachusetts salt bath for last ten years. It it's it's basically, you know, it looked amazing that, you know, you

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:09)
Mm. Mm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:16)
You can watch through yeah, you can watch the whole video or just like skip to you know, the last few minutes ⁓ when they when they get to the subframe. And it's amazing that it managed to hold the engine in place.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:28)
Yeah, how is this even working? I'm looking at the rust and it's like it's not it's not great, Bob. This

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:32)
How did this happen? There's some physics that

aren't physicking.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:36)
Yeah, well i the you know the amazing thing is yeah the rest of it doesn't look all doesn't look neah, the r the body and stuff doesn't look rusty.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:41)
Yeah, everything else looks great.

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:43)
His state troopers sold that car to him?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:45)
Apparently, yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:45)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:47)
those masked troopers are tricky little buggers. How they get ya.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:49)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:49)
Yeah.

They get ya.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:54)
⁓ all right, so yeah, check out that video. It's it's kind of fun. ⁓ so ⁓ the the last VW sold in North America with a manual transmission, which we just talked about a couple a few weeks ago. I had the the Jetta G I had a twenty twenty six VW Jetta GLI with a manual transmission. well for twenty twenty seven it's gone. Can't get anymore. Automatic only.

Roberto Baldwin (1:04:18)
Wop bop.

Nicole Wakelin (1:04:22)
And that was it. That was the last that was it.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:24)
That's the yeah, the the GTI and the golf R are both automat have been automatic only for a couple of years now.

Nicole Wakelin (1:04:30)
Mean, I get it, but we're not buying It's our own fault 'cause nobody buys them. I buy but it's still our own f our own collective humanity's fault, 'cause not enough of humanity buys them in the United States.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:36)
I buy

Roberto Baldwin (1:04:36)
Yeah. I buy them, but it's like yeah, three people

Well, I mean the only people

who are buying man transmissions are young enthusiasts and the you know, the GTI and the R sort of fell off their radar. They're you know, their BRZs are bonkers, they're all over the place when you look at the phone people are buying. They all moved and it's not that the BRZ has a ton of sales or the you know, the G R or you know, even the G R eighty six has even less. It's just that that's what people have sort of migrated to. Those are the cars that people are buying with the manual transmission. ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (1:04:53)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:05:13)
Everyone else, they're just you know, they're not s it's if if it's not an enthusiast car, why even bother? Because no one's gonna buy it. You're doing all this work for nothing. It's a lot of money.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:05:24)
⁓

yeah, I mean it's like it's funny, you know, Ford, the Mustang, Subaru, ⁓ Toyota and ⁓ and Mazda are like almost the last ones selling manual transmissions.

Nicole Wakelin (1:05:35)
Miata. Do

Roberto Baldwin (1:05:36)
Yeah, that's it.

Nicole Wakelin (1:05:37)
you think they're gonna they'd ever get rid of it in the Miata? They wouldn't do that, would they? Would they do that to us? Please don't do that to us.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:05:40)
No.

Roberto Baldwin (1:05:41)
No. Miata, Mustang, B

the B R Z family, G R, those are the three that'll I think those will never

Nicole Wakelin (1:05:47)
I hope they don't ever do

that to us. That would make me cry. That would make me very sad.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:05:48)
They'll be the last one standing.

Roberto Baldwin (1:05:50)
Yeah.

I mean it's that. I mean I I love my BRZ because it has the manufacturer. I mean, that car's fun at any speed, like a Miata, so yeah, so.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:03)
⁓ all right. H have ⁓ have either of you ever taken a Uber or Lyft and then gotten a bill for damage afterwards?

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:04)
Deep size.

No.

Roberto Baldwin (1:06:12)
I have

not.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:14)
Well, ⁓ this this person in Florida, ⁓ actually their son their their daughter took ⁓ took a lift ride recently. and then afterwards ⁓ got a bill for like eight eight hundred and fifty bucks or something like that, ⁓ eighty five bucks. I can't remember how much it was now.

Roberto Baldwin (1:06:19)
Well of course. Well

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:35)
How does that even happen if

you're not driving the car?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:40)
Well, it was d it was damaged you know, they claimed, you know, they left a mess inside the car. Except when, you know, and the you know, the the driver submitted a photo with the damage claim, to Lyft and you know, Lyft passed it along to the custom to the rider. ⁓ except when the rider looked at the picture, they noticed in the bottom right hand corner the little Google Gemini logo.

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:42)
⁓ she trashed it.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:09)
Dun dun dun It's a scam.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:09)
It was it's an AI generated image.

The this driver

took a picture of the back seat and then used Gemini to put, you know, a spilled milkshake and fries and a bunch of other mess in the backseat and you know, claim, you know, put a damage claim. So, ⁓ yeah, so you know, if you ride in a car and you get a damage bill, and you know you didn't leave a mess in the car, ⁓ you know, take a very close look. And what you might want to do

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:27)
Sneaky sneaky.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:41)
Is, you know, when you get out of the car, you might want to start just taking a quick snap at the back seat when you get out of the car before they drive away. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:46)
You could just turn around and take a picture as you're walking away. Yeah, and you'd

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:48)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:50)
have

it. Then you could be like, this is how I left it. It was fine.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:52)
Man are AR future so rad?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:52)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:57)
'Cause okay, first of all, all you had to do is crop the image so it didn't have that but the person clearly didn't know what they were doing.

Nicole Wakelin (1:08:03)
Like they were smart enough to think to use AI, but they weren't smart enough to think, mmm, gotta be careful no one knows I did that.

Roberto Baldwin (1:08:09)
I they're smart enough.

well.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:17)
So, you know, AI scams, they're they're they're everywhere and there's gonna be more and more of them.

Nicole Wakelin (1:08:18)
Those crazy kids.

Roberto Baldwin (1:08:19)
Take a picture of your car now.

Yeah. I'm just gonna stay home. Read a book.

Nicole Wakelin (1:08:29)
Stay home. Stay home, read a book. Mm out. Bye.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:34)
⁓ all right. Another YouTube channel, ⁓ I was I watched a video from the a few days ago. was this ⁓ channel called Aging Wheels and it's this guy he does stuff you know, a lot of stuff with electric trucks. And for some inexplicable reason, ⁓ he bought a ⁓ a at Lordstown Endurance.

Nicole Wakelin (1:08:59)
Why?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:00)
Well, apparently, you know, most of them were recalled and disposed of. But there were a few that were still out there and ⁓ it was titled and he bought it. ⁓ he doesn't say how much he paid for it. I hope he didn't pay much for it. ⁓ but ⁓ you know, i well the the video's got three hundred and sixteen thousand views. So ⁓ you know, ⁓ might have made some money off of it. but hopefully he didn't pay much for it. But

Nicole Wakelin (1:09:10)
Mm.

Roberto Baldwin (1:09:27)
thirty dollars a few.

Nicole Wakelin (1:09:28)
Yeah,

not much.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:30)
But you know, from from this video, it's very clear why Lordstown failed. this this truck was nowhere near ready for production. And yeah, I I'm surprised that it actually got any votes at all during the Nactoy voting. I mean the only reason it was even included in Nactoy was because there was only two other trucks that year.

Nicole Wakelin (1:09:43)
Really wasn't.

It was to get the three

trucks. It was because we liked to we wanna it was to make sure there was actually some trucks to vote for. So it was yeah. If it had been a good year for trucks, that would have not even have made it. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:07)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:09)
Well, I mean,

I think I talked about this before. I mean, Lordstown was essentially a boondoggle. The people from Workhorse, they sort of got rid of Workhorse and then started Lordstown. But then every Lordstown the the the scam was every Lordstown vehicle that was sold had to pay a licensing fee to Workhorse. Workhorse also fo sued the federal government because their truck wasn't picked for the new postal service van. They can't even build a truck. How are they gonna build thousands of like industrial strength? Yes Postal Service.

Nicole Wakelin (1:10:34)
For the postal service.

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:37)
The whole the workhorse, Lordstown, all a huge boondoggle scam. ⁓ and and I'm surprised that ⁓ to be honest that I I'm surprised that the any of these are on the road. ⁓ when you for years at CES what they would do is they would drive by where they knew journalists were in a Lordstown. So people would like, well hey, I saw Lordstown take a picture and you're like, No, I'm not gonna do that. That

Nicole Wakelin (1:10:43)
Boondoggle. I love that word, boondog.

⁓ god. Wow, that was sneaky. A boondoggle

in every possible way.

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:05)
A boondoggle in every I have a Lorestown hat somewhere in my my office. That's the best the that's the

Nicole Wakelin (1:11:09)
I don't think I have any Lordstown stuff. I feel like I got

Lordstown stuff I didn't keep.

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:14)
That's the best thing you could have gotten from the Lord's Town is a funny hat that you can make fun of whenever you wear. You're like, hey, remember this boondoggle? Remember this scam of a c of a car company?

Nicole Wakelin (1:11:18)
huh.

Remember that boondoggle? I got a hat. I got a boondoggle hat, I got a boondoggle

shirt.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:27)
Well, this this guy he he bought a Lordstown and you know, ⁓ it's it's not good. Most of the stuff doesn't work.

Nicole Wakelin (1:11:29)
Yeah.

Ha ha!

No way! I'm shocked! No, you're kidding. Really? I find this hard to believe, Sam.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:38)
It it it's it's making funny noises from one of the hub motors. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's it's shocking, I know. And

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:39)
And it's it's

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:49)
⁓ you know, a after after they went bankrupt, ⁓ you know, like when when they when they first launched, okay, part of the deal was, you know, Steve Burns, who was he was the founder and former CEO of Workhorse. He had left Workhorse, started this a new company, and you know, in twenty

what, eighteen, nineteen, when GM announced they were closing the Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant, you know, they got a lot of grief from the orange guy. And so they you know, they agreed to to sell the factory and they they sold it to Steve Burns and Lordstown Motors for twenty million dollars. But what they did was they loaned him forty million dollars of of which twenty million dollars went back to GM for for the factory.

And then the other twenty million dollars was supposed to be working capital. They never ⁓ really managed to get any kind of volume production going. They but he ended up selling the factory to ⁓ Foxconn for two hundred and sixty million dollars. So he got a pretty good return on the deal. ⁓ yeah. And then

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:52)
Yeah, it was all a it was a great scam. It was an absolutely wonderful scam.

Nicole Wakelin (1:12:56)
Fabulously

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:57)
It like

Nicole Wakelin (1:12:57)
scanned.

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:57)
like poor GM got sucked you got sucked into it because they wanted to appease you know, they want

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:00)
Well, I mean for GM for for I mean for

GM it you it was only forty million dollars. It didn't it didn't really cost that much. It was peanuts.

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:05)
Yeah, just nothing.

They could have kept making the bolt with that money, that's all I'm saying.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:09)
But yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:13:11)
Could have kept making the bolts.

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:13)
Best selling

E V without a Tesla badge on it. Yeah, we're not gonna make this anymore. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:17)
When when ⁓ when Burns got pushed out of Lordstown because they found out that he had been ⁓ slightly exaggerating about the number of pre orders they had for the truck. ⁓ after the bankruptcy, he out of bankruptcy he bought, you know, the assets of Lordstown Motors for like ten million dollars. ⁓ and actually was gonna try and relaunch the truck again, ⁓ which never happened. Now the the company he the new company he started was called Land X Motors.

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:26)
What? No.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:47)
And now they're trying to sell an electric three wheeler. So

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:51)
Which are th those are they're called ⁓ auto cars, auto cycles. Anyway, they don't they are not ⁓ you don't have to do crash testing on in on these things. ⁓ so and they're and and they're always like twenty, thirty thousand dollars. They're always very expensive. And I'm like, just buy a car.

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:00)
⁓ so you get a w that's

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:07)
Yeah. If you know, if instead of spending twenty grand or on one of these things, go buy a Nissan Setra. Or yeah, or Miata.

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:08)
Seriously.

Roberto Baldwin (1:14:14)
Go buy a Miata.

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:17)
With

a manual transmission.

Roberto Baldwin (1:14:17)
You could buy an NC Miata for the money you would spend on this. And you know what's gonna be awesome? The Miata. You know what's not gonna be awesome? This thing when it breaks down. And I'm the E V guy, I should be like, hey, you know, you should be buying an E V. No, just buy the Miata. Don't buy this.

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:21)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:25)
Yeah.

⁓ all right. ⁓ what

Roberto Baldwin (1:14:33)
Stay away from

Landex if you can.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:36)
One one more thing. ⁓ couple weeks ago I went out to ⁓ La Jolla, California to drive the twenty twenty six Lexus ES. ⁓ and ⁓ so for Espanol, yes. ⁓ so for you know, the ES is the last of the original Lexus lineup. now the L S is gone. You know, when they launched Lexus in nineteen eighty nine it was the L S four hundred and the E S two hundred fifty. The ES is the last

Roberto Baldwin (1:14:48)
The Lex is Espanyol.

Nicole Wakelin (1:14:50)
I didn't think of that until you said it.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:06)
of the original lineup. ⁓ and for twenty twenty six, you know, it's it's new. ⁓ and they're you can they're all electrified. You can get it as either a hybrid or a battery electric. ⁓ and the the battery electric, amazingly enough, has the same motors and same battery that you'll find in the ⁓ the Toyota B Z and that Soltera you were driving. it's got a a NAX charging port on the right front fender.

And it's also quite a bit larger than the last generation ES. It's now ⁓ it's now actually larger than all but the most recent generation of LS. ⁓ it's six and a half inches longer than the old ES, ⁓ and two and a half inches wider and it's taller. And I I talked with the ⁓ the chief engineer ⁓ Kohei Chiasi Chiyashi. ⁓ and

Yeah, explain that the reason why they made it so much bigger is because you got the battery under the floor, which kinda lifted the whole thing up. And then ⁓ you know, they wanted to maintain, you know, good proportions, so because the roof was taller, they made it longer and wider, so it still had good proportions. I I like the design. I think it's pretty good looking. you know, they're getting they're moving away from the spindle grill, but they still have like the creases in the nose that kind of give you an echo of the

The spindle, but without the full ginormous grill in there.

Roberto Baldwin (1:16:36)
It's still got the shark ⁓ whale shark vibes.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:40)
Little bit.

Nicole Wakelin (1:16:41)
Whale shark finds. Mm-hmm. From the sea.

Roberto Baldwin (1:16:41)
Yeah. From the sea.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:43)
⁓ yeah. The the the

only the only visual difference between the hybrid and the EV is the hybrid has a small slim air intake across the top edge, like right right at the front edge of the grill. but then you know the the the the the E V doesn't have that. And amazingly the E V, the base the the base E V is actually cheaper than the hybrid. starts at forty nine thousand dollars including delivery.

Roberto Baldwin (1:16:56)
⁓ I see.

Nicole Wakelin (1:17:09)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:17:09)
⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:13)
⁓ it's ⁓ it's the same ⁓ seventy four point seven kilowatt hour. so it's rated for the front wheel drive one, the ES three fifty E is rated at three hundred and seven miles range. ⁓ so you know it's got decent range. ⁓ the the all wheel drive ⁓ ES five hundred E is like two eighty five. so pretty pretty decent range. But even you know, even the front wheel drive one.

Roberto Baldwin (1:17:13)
How how big is the battery on this?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:43)
Yeah. It's it's

Roberto Baldwin (1:17:43)
Four point one

miles per miles per kilowatt hour. Again, Toyota's really killing it on the efficiency side. Sorry. Sorry for the for the interruption, but I just every time Toyota comes out with a new EV, I'm like, well let's see what their numbers are. And it's you it's all it's right now it's all seeds four, which is good for, you know. Again, that sort of translates to a to a sedan that gets forty miles per gallon.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:47)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's really good.

Nicole Wakelin (1:17:49)
Mm.

Ha ha ha ha

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:00)
Yeah, they're they're they're really good.

Yeah. And you know, that's yeah, that's you know, that's what we were seeing ⁓ on the odometer. You know, when we were driving it, we we're getting over four miles per kilowatt hour during our drive with the three fifty and like three point eight or so with the f E S five hundred. ⁓ so it's it's plenty efficient. it was funny, yeah, they were ⁓ the Lexus folks were talking about, you know, one of the goals ⁓ with this generation was to try and attract younger buyers to the Lexus brand.

and you know, especially with the EV. And so I was driving with Robbie DeGraf, from Auto Pacific and we stopped at this place, you know, by a by a lake, to take some photos of the car. And as we were driving in we walked past we rode drove past this group of ⁓ older ladies who were out there for for a morning hike and we're taking pictures and they caught up to us a few minutes later and they start asking us all these questions

you know, asked you what we what we were doing and then started asking all kinds of questions about the car and they were I mean, you know, these were women in their, you know, at least upper sixties, you know, into their seventies and and beyond, that were v actually really interested in the E V. ⁓ yeah. you know, one of them was telling us that ⁓ you know, it's like ⁓ you know, at at her age, you know, she's gotta go to more and more funerals and you know, a lot of times, you know, dri

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:15)
Wow.

That's kinda cool.

that's so sad.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:34)
dri driving back to Arizona, you know, to funerals for for friends and so that you know they and they regularly drive back and ⁓ you know they s they stop and well they they Yeah, so so you know, she wanted to know, you know, if it if it could get there on full charge, you know, and said, you know, we drive ⁓ back to like Yuma, you know, s usually stop for lunch. ⁓ said, Yeah, I mean it's like a hundred and eighty miles. Yeah, absolutely. This thing will get you there, you know, by the time you finish your lunch you can be fully charged again.

Roberto Baldwin (1:19:43)
They made this a downer, Sam.

Nicole Wakelin (1:19:45)
Wow, wait Wow Sam

Sam Abuelsamid (1:20:04)
⁓ and be on your way. ⁓ so they were you know, they they were really impressed with this car and you know, so we got back and we're telling Lexus, yeah, I think we just sold five of these for ya. Yeah. Well the you know, the the

Roberto Baldwin (1:20:13)
Yeah. For funerals. And they're like, Yay ⁓ what?

Nicole Wakelin (1:20:16)
Wait a minute, what? I know I don't

what does that say about Lexus really? I want a funeral car. I want a car to take it to funerals. I think this Lexus would be perfect for me.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:20:21)
Well no

Roberto Baldwin (1:20:22)
I think they should bring if they wanna get the kids, they

gotta bring the LS back and then it has to be in the next version of the Street Fighter game. 'Cause the LS was the of the f the the car in the Street Fighter two that they beat up on the little bonus round. In the like the nineties. So you bring that back, put it in there, let you know, Ken, Blanca, whoever I don't know, I haven't played Street Fighter. I was really good in the nineties, but that was a long time ago. ⁓ let them play, you know.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:20:32)
Uh-huh.

Okay.

Nicole Wakelin (1:20:35)
⁓ okay.

Is that the key to all of it?

Roberto Baldwin (1:20:50)
Put the LS back in Street Fighter is all I'm saying. Bring the LS back, put in Street Fighter, boom. All the kids are gonna want it. I don't know if kids still play Street Fighter? I don't have any kids. I don't have anything I don't have anything to judge that on, by the way.

Nicole Wakelin (1:20:57)
All the kids, all the kids was the only one Alexis.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:02)
⁓

I have no idea if my kids play it or not. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah, you know, the the extra six and a half inches of length means the back seat is huge. And on the E V you Yeah. The well in the on the on the E V you can actually get an executive package that has a reclining has reclining rear seats and on the on the the passenger side you can get an Ottoman that pops up and so

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:17)
For the ladies.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:31)
There's a touch screen control and you fold down the center armrest. There's a touch screen controller on there. You can move the the front passenger seat forward, flip up the the ottoman, relax back there. Really nice. ⁓ and you know, it's a lot cheaper than an L S.

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:45)
To be honest, you're

really selling it for funerals for funeral trips. Let's all get in the car, go to you know, Susan's funeral. Sale's a sale.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:48)
Ha ha.

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:51)
⁓ gosh, it's really sad.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:52)
Hey, a sale is a sale, right?

Nicole Wakelin (1:21:57)
A

sale is a sale is a sale. Yep, it is still a sale. That's still a good thing.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:22:02)
But no, I mean it's actually a really enjoyable car to drive. You know, the the handling was surprisingly good for a big car like that. ⁓ you know, steering fuel was decent. ⁓ and you know, they be they range, like I said, between forty nine thousand for the base ES three fifty E up to like fifty seven for the ES five hundred E, and then the hybrid is in between at about fifty one, fifty two. ⁓ so it's ⁓ you know, if you're if you're looking for a more premium

Roberto Baldwin (1:22:02)
Stay away from me.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:22:31)
sedan, you know, larger sedan in either a hybrid or ⁓ or a a ⁓ battery electric. the ES is definitely worth taking a look at. One one interesting detail on the the E V No nothing about funerals. Or rather on an interesting detail on the hybrid. It's got the the new sixth generation hybrid system that launched on the new RAV four. But it's got ⁓ it's basically they've taken the version

Roberto Baldwin (1:22:45)
No, is it more about funerals? Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:23:00)
from the Rav4 plug in hybrid. So it's got a lot more electrical power. So it's got two hundred horsepower from the the tr the traction motor on the front. ⁓ which is the most they've ever put on a non plug in hybrid. ⁓ and so, you know, it operates in a lot of ways it operates a lot more like a Honda hybrid now. ⁓ so it's much quieter. feels much smoother and you know you don't get as much of the ⁓ the the

rubber banding effect that you get on a lot of Toyota hybrids. so it feels really nice. Although you know, we drove the be the E V first and then drove the hybrid. And even though the E V was ⁓ the hybrid is way improved over previous generations compared to the E V. It's like you know, the E V's just so silent. It it was great. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (1:23:49)
It is

it is so crazy. Like the CLA hybrid is nowhere near as nice as the C L A electric for the Mercedes. It's just the CLA electric is just so nice. Like I drove the hybrid all over Austria and Germany and then I got into the C L A electric in San Francisco for like thirty minutes. I'm like, yeah, this is the better car. It's just hands down the better car.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:15)
So ⁓ I had I did ⁓ two interviews while I was out there. I did talk with ⁓ Koeichiashi, who is the chief engineer, and Cynthia Tenhouse, who is the vice president of Lexus Guest Experience. She's basically in charge of marketing for Lexus, ⁓ about about the ES. And so we'll put those at the at the end here. ⁓ but before we get to that, ⁓ there there is some stuff, you know, some some of the folks that are watching the the live stream and YouTube

⁓ had some comments in here that just want to talk about a little bit. ⁓ the some anonymous ⁓ HY eight O Z said what what do you guys think about the federal government proposal of imposing a hundred thirty dollar registration fee on E V cars. ⁓ and you know the the reason why they're doing this is because you know most of the money to pay for roads comes from fuel taxes.

⁓ EV's obviously, you know, not using any fuel, not using any gas anyway, or diesel, they're not paying any of those taxes. But they're still putting wear and tear on the roads. So, you know, having you know, having some fee, you know, to offset that, you know, because you're s you're using the roads, you should probably be paying for ⁓ I d I don't have a problem in general with a fee. The hundred and thirty dollars I think is probably a little higher than it should be. just because you know, based on

on mileage, ⁓ you know, the federal gas tax is eighteen cents a gallon. And you know, if you look at the the average I think I worked it out, ⁓ you know, the the average fuel economy, you know, in the US is like twenty-four miles per gallon. ⁓ the corporate average fuel economy overall is twenty four miles per gallon, fifteen thousand miles a year, that actually works out to about a hundred and ten, hundred and fifteen dollars a year in federal gas taxes.

So the hundred and thirty is probably a little bit higher than it should be. ⁓ but you know, it's not it's not outrageous. So I don't actually have a problem with that. I mean, what do you what do you think?

Roberto Baldwin (1:26:22)
I mean my issue is that I already pay for I mean most of my registration, most of my taxes, most of what I'm paying for for whatever. ⁓ it's it's state by state. I mean, we pay a lot of money for for our gas here in sev in in California and our ⁓ our roads are better than Michigan. That's and I and I already pay extra in my registration in California because to offset that because they're like, you know

Sam Abuelsamid (1:26:30)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Wakelin (1:26:39)
We well it didn't even

We do

too. And you hear

Roberto Baldwin (1:26:47)
You use a lot

of you use a you drive on the road, you should pay for the wear and tear on the road and I'm like, All right, yeah, my my thing is I don't need I don't need the government. It you know, it's it's it's you you can't sit there and yell state's rights, state's rights, state's rights and then decide, we're gonna do this one thing.

Nicole Wakelin (1:26:51)
We have the same thing in New Hampshire.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:01)
Well, but there are also federal roads too that the federal government pays for. Not everything is paid for by states or loc or local municipalities.

Nicole Wakelin (1:27:02)
Yeah, just

But it it does, I mean, it does start to add up pretty quick. Yeah, because like in New Hampshire, so we already pay, if you have an EV, you pay an extra hundred dollars a year. And if you have a plug-in hybrid, you pay an extra $50 a year, which I always found weird because I'm like, I don't think the difference in the amount of gas you're getting is half. Do you know what I mean? Like a hundred for an EV and $50 for a plug-in hybrid when it doesn't feel like that's the right ratio. It feels like it should be a lot less for a plug-in hybrid than that if it's a hundred for an EV.

Roberto Baldwin (1:27:11)
But then you're doubling you're double dipping at that point.

Nicole Wakelin (1:27:38)
But so you're still already paying a hundred bucks for the state to to offset the state on top of your registration fee. And then if you're paying another hundred and thirty, let's say, that's that's two hundred and thirty dollars a year to register your car. And it doesn't I don't know. I mean I guess I

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:52)
But how much

but how much would you p be paying in in gas taxes in total, both state and federal gas taxes? Because you'd pay the that eighteen cents a gallon across the country, in in New Hampshire and everywhere else.

Nicole Wakelin (1:28:04)
Right. But

but but you're gonna if you buy an EV or an or or a hybrid, whether I drive that so let's just take New Hampshire's example. So a hundred for the state and a hundred and thirty for the feds, that's two hundred and thirty dollars. A little lady like my mom was, little people who don't drive very much, people are just tool around town, you're if you're not driving high mileage, you're making up for the people who do. Like it doesn't actually charge you for what you use. The at least the gas tax

Sam Abuelsamid (1:28:27)
That's true.

Nicole Wakelin (1:28:31)
I'm an anti tax person, but is at least the gas tax charges you based on you're driving more, you're using more gas, you have to pay a better share. This doesn't take into account any of that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:28:41)
Yeah, well and you know, ⁓ really what it should be is you know what we should be doing is just charging per mile. You know, charging a fee per mile. Which that you know, that that, you know, equates how much you pay to how much you're using the roads. ⁓ you know but the right. Yeah, you know, it's it's a pro it's a proxy for paying per mile. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:28:57)
Right. 'Cause that's the cause the gas tax is how much you're using, how much gas you use. So theoretically how much you're driving. These are right. These are flat fees. So it doesn't matter

whether I drive five miles or five million, I'm gonna pay the same fee. It doesn't seem right at all.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:29:12)
Right. And you know, I I agree it it should that's probably the way it should be done, but you know, the challenge you get into there is you know, then you know, then you gotta have some mechanism for them to track your mileage. And that could be more problematic from a privacy standpoint.

Nicole Wakelin (1:29:26)
You could you

could report it. I mean you report your mileage on your taxes when you do deductions for ⁓ what am I trying to say? Like business dri you know, business the unless you get audited, you just go with that. You have records to prove what you say you drove. You you you you have it if they tie decide to say prove it or you don't have it, you know?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:29:48)
let's see, what what else was there here? ⁓ yeah, Ad Adam Jack Jack Wenko is saying the the proposed E V fee is punitive and petty. ⁓ it disproportionately impacts people who choose to drive a cleaner car. yeah, I I don't like I say, I I don't entirely agree with I think the the amount is perhaps a little more punitive than it should be, but I I'm in general I'm not opposed to paying a fee, you know, to cover, you know, the road the cost of maintaining the roads.

Roberto Baldwin (1:30:17)
Well you also like every state pays a different percentage of their like local and state income ⁓ taxes for the road. Like California, eighty percent of what's paid for for roads is from California. It's like I'm paying for eighty percent of like road upkeep. Whereas some states it's like, ⁓ North Dakota, it's twenty six percent. So they're using seventy five percent so it's it it's not a level playing field across I mean if everyone was paying like seventy five percent for their roads then you're like, Okay, well this is but this is it's it's

Nicole Wakelin (1:30:40)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:30:46)
And again, that feels very punitive. It feels very like, well, we'll get ya. And we might as well and if we're gonna be charging more for for for for road hurt, you know, you know, big trucks, you know, large trucks are also, you know, do do should large trucks pay more taxes for for the roads because they, you know, an F one fifty, you know, weighs more than a Hyundai. So should that person be paying more for for their, you know, what they're doing to the road? And it's it becomes like very it then you're like, okay, well.

Everyone's paying a different price for this and for this and for this and it's yeah. I think it's I think it's I I really think it's it's it should be based on, you know, the states because the states know how much they're paying for roads. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:31:19)
Yeah, I mean

Nicole Wakelin (1:31:28)
even notice

I'm just now I'm looking this up. But in New Hampshire, everything that we do to maintain the roads day to day is paid by us. Even on federal highways, it's only major projects where the federal government actually helps. So just every day taking care of the roads, state of New Hampshire. If you have to replace a whole highway, then the state has to chip in, but the feds pay more of it. So yeah, so it is very complicated. It's not as it's not simple. Like they and it because it's state to state. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:31:55)
Yeah.

So yeah, I mean it it it it would you know, to do something that was truly fair, which, you know, wouldn't when it comes to any kind of taxes, you know, is nearly impossible, especially in this country. ⁓ you know, would would be really really problematic. But I mean there we need we I think we do need to figure out some way, you know, this is this this particular approach is probably not the right way, but we probably need some way to ⁓ to figure out

you know, some some way to ⁓ offset the lost fuel taxes. ⁓ when you know, when we're driving more efficient vehicles, you know, whether those are hybrids, plug in hybrids, or EVs. ⁓ okay, enough of that. I think that's that's it for tonight, except for the the two interviews that you'll hear after we say goodbye. ⁓ that's ⁓ first up will be Kohei Sh Chiyashi.

the chief engineer from Lexus and then ⁓ Cynthia Tannhouse, the VP of Lexus Guest Experience. ⁓ so see ya.

Nicole Wakelin (1:33:02)
Bye everyone.

Roberto Baldwin (1:33:03)
Bye.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:33:08)
Yeah, we were.

Yeah, we tried several of the beaches that were recommended on the signs. We went up and down, up and down. They were all very crowded. was cars everywhere. There nowhere to really park the car and be able to a shot. So we found some other locations. And then I was playing around a little bit to see what else I could do with it.

Translator (1:33:37)
You're have to forgive us, because I think we have to wait for Craig. one thing we could ask you. So one thing that Chia-san was asking is, did your perception of the vehicle not change, but was it different from what you expected when you're looking at the pictures and videos? And then seeing the real, like the car.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:34:04)
the perception of the visuals.

Translator (1:34:07)
Whether it's size or just the looks or just did the real item, the real car look too different from the initial set of assets that are...

Sam Abuelsamid (1:34:20)
No, wouldn't say that it looked ⁓ notably different from the photographs and videos that I've seen. we saw the car last year ⁓ at the headquarters unveiled event. We saw it there for the first time. But this is the first time we've had an opportunity to spend a significant amount of time with it. And after, as I've been preparing for the stories to write,

Translator (1:34:26)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:34:48)
Looking through the specifications, I came to the realization that the car is larger than I thought it It's notably larger than the previous generation.

Translator (1:34:59)
⁓ We're asking everybody that because there's been a mix of this vehicle doesn't portray well from 2D screen into 3D real life of just the overall sizing and he was just...

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:16)
yeah i mean of size obviously without with us

Translator (1:35:20)
⁓ okay, I was waiting in the lobby, I'm sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:22)
⁓

Without something ⁓ for perspective for scale, it's hard to judge the size from photos.

But when you stand next to it, the size becomes more apparent. Particularly the height. It's taller.

Translator (1:35:47)
Every card in his experience always looks smaller in pictures.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:35:51)
Yeah,

that's true. Many of them do look smaller in photographs, the two-dimensional. Especially when you put it ⁓ against a background where you don't necessarily have a sense of the scale. ⁓

Translator (1:36:08)
I'm ⁓ it

Kohei Chiashi (1:36:11)
I'm

Translator (1:36:14)
okay was that sorry thank you for that he was asking does the car look different in person than from pictures? I see, see. We were just carrying small talk.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:23)
There

were definitely some aspects that ⁓ I actually really liked, especially seeing it in person now. ⁓

And I am a big fan of bamboo. I really like the bamboo finish.

Translator (1:36:45)
The music is amazing.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:36:49)
All right, well, let's begin. ⁓ So thank you for your time, Chiyashi-san. so I guess to start with, if you could talk a little bit about ⁓ what ⁓ were the main goals in developing this car and how did you want to evolve it from the previous generation ES to what you have today?

Kohei Chiashi (1:37:11)
How did evolve it? As you can the shape and of have lot.

Translator (1:37:21)
First, as you can definitely tell by looking at the car, all of the internals and all the components, as well as the exterior and the design have dramatically changed since the older version.

Kohei Chiashi (1:37:29)
But what we aimed for was ES to be ES.

Translator (1:37:34)
But first and foremost what the development team held to heart was the fact that the ES will always be the ES. And so we're going to protect the role that the ES has played within the brand lineup.

Kohei Chiashi (1:37:46)
The the E.S. is... That's point. A graceful elegant sedan silhouette.

Translator (1:37:49)
And so, I'm sorry, then the role of the E.S. is.

We're about the value that it provides.

One is the elegant, sophisticated flowing line of the sedan itself.

Kohei Chiashi (1:38:03)
But the room is very spacious and a atmosphere.

Translator (1:38:07)
But despite that, you still have a very large spacious interior that is very relaxing and comfortable.

Kohei Chiashi (1:38:13)
When the four passengers will get tired and comfortable time. ⁓

Translator (1:38:21)
And the other part

is that when you have all four passengers in a car, all have the same level of comfort and relaxation, but on long distance travel, it's not tiring, there's no fatigue.

This one is like the of the top batter of the next generation of electrification from Lexus.

Kohei Chiashi (1:38:40)
We need

Translator (1:38:42)
And so

his development team challenge was with this new technology and with the next level, how do we protect the values that the ES has given to customers until now? It was that combination.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:38:54)
So at what point was the decision made that you would offer both a battery electric and a hybrid variant?

Translator (1:39:06)
From the very initial stages, they knew that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:39:10)
⁓ So, ⁓ it's interesting driving the two, there are not a lot of vehicles out there that offer, and same vehicle offers those.

Translator (1:39:15)
not sure I know that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:39:27)
And ⁓ the EV in particular, ⁓ having driven several of the other ⁓ EVs in the lineup now, particularly since they were revamped.

the rz and ⁓ the the toyota bc and bc woodland ⁓ know they were dramatically improved you know all of all of that improvements for the side

So I think one of the interesting things about Toyota's ⁓ obviously the company is very focused on hybrids. I understand the reason for that. But you've expanded your electric vehicle lineup quite a bit over the last year. ⁓

Translator (1:40:20)
decade.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:40:31)
for a company that most people perceive as not being very friendly to EVs.

Translator (1:40:36)
open.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:40:40)
So were there any particular goals that you were trying to achieve with the EV version of the ES?

and any particular challenge.

Translator (1:41:03)
One was obviously to, with the new battery, power train to be able to hit those targets of protecting the role of the ES and everything that it stands for.

Kohei Chiashi (1:41:12)
And this is personal opinion though.

Translator (1:41:16)
So there's lots

of EVs out there right now in the world, in the market.

Kohei Chiashi (1:41:19)
The

driving experience is from the cars of

Translator (1:41:23)
is that all those have a driving characteristic that is slightly different from a traditional automobile that we would consider.

Kohei Chiashi (1:41:31)
In that sense, we is car-like, based on our experience of development.

Translator (1:41:38)
So for us, we really wanted to create a BV that honored and drove like a traditional automobile and we wanted to apply our experience, long-lost experience as a traditional legacy car manufacturer to try to achieve.

Kohei Chiashi (1:41:53)
Especially this ESR has a of royal custom.

Translator (1:41:56)
Especially because ES

has such a loyal fan base, a customer base. It has to be very easy to operate and has to be fatigue free.

Kohei Chiashi (1:41:59)
It's easy and not

hiring. ⁓

Translator (1:42:07)
in order

for us to achieve that as a BEV, we had to work a lot on the tuning for the electric device. And that was a part of the development process that took a lot of work.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:42:23)
⁓ I guess when you say easy to operate, think the team free is fairly straightforward, but easy to operate, what sorts of characteristics are used specifically?

Kohei Chiashi (1:42:36)
For you too strongly.

Translator (1:42:38)
As soon as you press the accelerator, it's

not an overly responsive, overly aggressive acceleration thrust. Because that will tense up your foot, your leg as you do the throttle control. And right now on the market there's many BEVs that drive like that.

Kohei Chiashi (1:42:53)
people are with

But on hand, it's Lexus driving signature.

Translator (1:43:02)
For us, also have the Lexus driving signature concept. It's a very responsive, clear, natural...

Kohei Chiashi (1:43:05)
Feeling. ⁓

Translator (1:43:11)
And

that's part that the whole brand we must move towards.

So it's harmonizing the two characters to the original part of what the ES should, layering that on top of the core Lexus driving signature dynamic.

Kohei Chiashi (1:43:26)
So in acceleration is like a wave.

Translator (1:43:29)
An example is like the reaction of the car when you push the throttle of how it accelerates is a very important part of that. And that's just one particular example. Of course, we talk about the suspension movement and how we tune the damper. All of these individual engineers and developments are still working with the same vision, the same direction.

Kohei Chiashi (1:43:45)
you

Sam Abuelsamid (1:43:52)
So with the EV and the hybrid, did you try to achieve, was it your goal to achieve the same kind of feel with both of those?

Kohei Chiashi (1:44:03)
your goal? We are an ES, so we to ⁓ just like Lexus.

Translator (1:44:13)
So of course, he has the

duty and responsibility. No matter which power turn you do, it has to be an ES, regardless of power turn. It has to drive like an ES. Having said that, we have three different variations this time at this event. All of these ESs, though, are ESs, but they have character, unique.

Kohei Chiashi (1:44:21)
So, this time, three ES. ⁓

These three ES have their own unique characteristics.

It's exactly same

Translator (1:44:35)
So

we've spent extra focus and care to keep them individual characteristics unique.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:44:44)
And

I did notice that difference in each one. Particularly going from the 350e to the 500e. The 350 and its driving dynamics, it feels a little bit softer, a little more comfortable. The 500 feels a little bit firmer, a little bit more button down. And then the hybrid, somewhere in between.

Translator (1:45:11)
Yeah.

Kohei Chiashi (1:45:13)
I think so. 500e is... I like driving so... 500e is most On the other hand, is... 4 people are really...

Translator (1:45:25)
Because that one expresses the fun of ⁓

people in the car though. I've really put a big focus on everybody. No PS's, but you could totally have a different driving experience in that one.

Kohei Chiashi (1:45:36)
I'm not sure that's the right

Sam Abuelsamid (1:45:42)
So one of the big changes from the prior generation ES to this one is the size. It's quite a bit longer, taller, wider. The rear seat, remarkable. There's a lot of room back there. Even the tallest passengers will be comfortable back there. What drove the decision to make it that much larger? It's nearly as large as the...

previous generation LS.

Translator (1:46:18)
One, to be clear, we didn't have the LS in mind at all when we were developing the car. Just like we explained in the beginning, protecting the ES value.

Kohei Chiashi (1:46:32)
a result, the car became bigger and to be specific,

Translator (1:46:36)
For instance, we have the battery under the battery of the plot and that raised the floor of the car cell However, we had to protect them the headroom in the overall spacious Everything up the overall height of the vehicle

Kohei Chiashi (1:46:43)
But space is protected.

So, but then now they're going to try and steal it.

Translator (1:46:59)
How do we protect the elegant flowing lines of the city?

spent a lot of time with the designers of how to solve that problem. As a result, decided to extend the overall length to change the proportions. It was a silhouette and preserving the internal cabin space, which was a necessary dimensional increase in order to achieve that.

Kohei Chiashi (1:47:08)
What happens?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:47:11)
The rain.

Back to the power transfer mode, the hybrid, the new sixth generation hybrid which was previously launched in the RAV4. When I was going through the specifications, one thing I noticed was the power output of the MGU, which is traditionally Lexus and Toyota hybrids. The MGU1 has been...

rather more modest power relative to the engine. This found a significantly higher electrical power. What drove your decision making there?

Kohei Chiashi (1:48:09)
We are working the generation to... ⁓

Translator (1:48:16)
strategically

for the next generation of the hybrid system development. So we took the engine torque and motor torque engine motor.

So we actually skewed the usage towards the more electrified side, towards the motor side.

And that's matched to the shifting in today's world of, know, moving towards like.

Kohei Chiashi (1:48:43)
hybrid system.

Translator (1:48:45)
So that drove the evolution of the hybrid system. The reason why we're able to do it this time is ⁓ because innovation.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:48:48)
evolved.

Kohei Chiashi (1:48:51)
And this what was...

The innovation was the

electric unit switch in back.

Translator (1:49:00)
the

inverter and the electrification units themselves the components and also the CVT and also MG1 and MG2

Kohei Chiashi (1:49:10)
and unit.

Translator (1:49:13)
We were

able to enclose those into one unit.

Kohei Chiashi (1:49:16)
I'm chasing in place.

Translator (1:49:19)
So until

now the inverter was in a separate location. What allowed us to do was to dramatically make the whole system much more compact and much more efficient and also much more high power, high output. That we were able to achieve that.

Kohei Chiashi (1:49:21)
question. ⁓

Translator (1:49:41)
And so actually, like you mentioned, the RAV4 had already released it on the plug-in hybrid version of And so if you took the charging unit of the PHEV...

Kohei Chiashi (1:49:50)
I'm

to grab the board.

Translator (1:49:53)
So in

order for us to try and that kind of space in the engine room, we had to these kind of innovations for the sixth generation. So right now the technology to shrink and to minimize size is a very big focus of hybrid development.

Kohei Chiashi (1:50:00)
everything. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:50:12)
Yeah, it's the change is noticeable when you drive it. Having the extra electrical power. The perception is that the engine is not working as hard when you accelerate. Which in turn makes it feel a lot more quieter and refined.

Kohei Chiashi (1:50:36)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:50:37)
So it seems like there's a lot less of when you accelerate the engine revving up and then sitting there as the car catches up to the engine speed with the C-S-

Was that, and I assume that was part of the intent?

Kohei Chiashi (1:50:54)
Yes, and then I do exactly what

Translator (1:50:55)
the exact

Sam Abuelsamid (1:50:56)
Okay. ⁓ And then ⁓ the terms of the power output ⁓ for the front wheel drive versus the all wheel drive hybrid, ⁓ that's kept the overall system output is roughly the same for both variants.

Translator (1:51:22)
This all-wheel drive version uses the E4.

Usually you know that the E-Force system was originally designed to prevent the vehicle from getting stuck in certain situations. That was the fundamental thought process of that system up until now.

Kohei Chiashi (1:51:39)
partial.

But the rear motor the generation.

Translator (1:51:48)
generation

we've been able to increase the capacity of the rear motor. So now we've expanded the range of uses from just straight line into now cornering. We're able to stabilize the car as we into corner and the key has been able to expand its use case a little bit. But it's still

⁓ auxiliary type of ad. And because of that, that's why it does not contribute to total system.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:52:20)
Okay, so we talked about cornering using the rear motor to dynamically adjust the weight balance a little bit as you're cornering.

Kohei Chiashi (1:52:31)
I a development of the development design technology of Direct4 uses E-Axel, so four wheels I partial use.

Translator (1:52:47)
It took cues from the Direct4 system, and Direct4 obviously is using two full e-axles ⁓ dynamically ⁓ distributing the torque, but it's using the same theory and the same, not algorithmic, calculation to apply to the e4 a little bit more than just straight line traction control.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:53:05)
⁓ Moving back to the interior of the vehicle, you talked about the size, the passenger space. Talk a little bit about some of the technology that's been applied to the new ES ⁓ in terms of the new multimedia, the latest generation ⁓ Lexus safety system. Talk about what you've done there.

Kohei Chiashi (1:53:37)
First all, the platform has new.

Translator (1:53:41)
First and foremost, the platform itself has been renewed.

Kohei Chiashi (1:53:45)
This software development platform was Toyota.

Translator (1:53:50)
Our platform

also is the new proprietary, the new system.

Kohei Chiashi (1:53:54)
This

is SDV thinking.

Translator (1:53:59)
So this becomes also one of the top batters in our lineup for the introduction of SDV style thinking.

Kohei Chiashi (1:54:06)
So, in words, the developer team always uses the improve the

Translator (1:54:16)
It becomes a relationship of how the vehicle is used and how the customer has used the car. Are engineers also able to learn from the feedback and then, whether it's an OTA or something in the future, be able to try to always improve the car?

Kohei Chiashi (1:54:31)
multimedia OTAs ⁓

Translator (1:54:34)
OTA updates for previous multimedia.

But I think he says moving forward the frequency and also the quality of the updates will improve dramatically.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:54:49)
So a few weeks ago I actually visited Wilbur City and had a chance to talk with Jean-Francois from the Arrhen team and I've spoken before at the RAP4 event last year about the multimedia system.

⁓ I know that you have the ability to update the multimedia. Does the architecture of the ES allow for updating of other systems in the vehicle as well over the year?

Translator (1:55:26)
to to

some of them get revealed.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:55:39)
So, looking at it now, having gotten to this point of launching the vehicle, as chief engineer, what are your favorite aspects of this car? What are your favorite aspects of what was achieved?

Translator (1:55:48)
it.

Thank you.

interior space and the time spent in there.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:56:08)
And of the three, I think you've mentioned that if you were buying one for yourself, it be the ES500D. Is that your favorite variation of this car?

Kohei Chiashi (1:56:21)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:56:23)
⁓ is there is there anything ⁓ anything that you would have like to have done that you were able to achieve yet or or about for the long

Kohei Chiashi (1:56:36)
Yes. ⁓

Translator (1:56:39)
to the

This time, even though

we protected the Heritage EES role, we were able to expand its role in different directions through different features.

So one is the 500E where it's really emphasizing the driving pleasure.

Kohei Chiashi (1:57:06)
Also the comfort in the room.

Translator (1:57:09)
we were able

to extract the executive package in the rear of the 358 and we were able to expand that but

Kohei Chiashi (1:57:16)
I've ⁓

more that kind of

Translator (1:57:21)
So

we really wanted to do more with that. Like we would have liked to have gone deeper.

Kohei Chiashi (1:57:25)
And

so he felt...

Translator (1:57:28)
vehicle to

amplify its presence.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:57:35)
I thought of one other question I wanted to ask you. In the battery charge management, for preconditioning, are two options that we would expect in most modern EVs when you're using navigation, navigating to a charge station, automatically preconditioned, manually preconditioned. There was an option in there for turning off

Translator (1:57:42)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:58:02)
the battery cooling during charging. I'm curious if you can talk about what that is intended to do.

Translator (1:58:06)
Why?

Kohei Chiashi (1:58:12)
When the fan turns on, the fan a noise. There are I recommend but it's good

Translator (1:58:24)
something we don't fully recommend because the reason why that option was there, it's not that we don't recommend it but the reason why we put it there was there are certain instances in situations where you're charging and if when the cooling fan is on that sound is undesirable. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:58:40)
So

more of an aesthetic. Yes. OK. All right. That's fair. Is there anything else that I haven't asked about that you would like to share about this car?

Kohei Chiashi (1:58:54)
And I don't know.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:58:56)
later.

Kohei Chiashi (1:59:02)
I'm very particular about the space in I'm designer, so I lot to talk about.

Translator (1:59:15)
right now because you know obviously the interior space in that environment, that atmosphere is something he's very proud of and the focus of it and also being originally a chassis platform engineer you know there's so many different kinds of design he has a long list of questions he would love to ask.

Kohei Chiashi (1:59:31)
This the is higher than The sound system makes it get off.

Translator (1:59:35)
the seating position has

Some of

the benefits of is the easy ingress ego. But also a better field of view. Even for Sedan, increased the surface area of the glass. It's a new expansive field of view that hasn't been available until now. ⁓ So he'd be curious to see if that was something you were able to experience.

Kohei Chiashi (1:59:43)
But the is that the point of is high.

And this a segment, we'll about...

It's new freedom.

I'm you felt

but

it's an SUV. It's It's VW.

Translator (2:00:10)
not being an SU.

But the shape when you look at it, it's also the driving feel though, is a pure sedan. So he thinks he was able to blend the two.

Kohei Chiashi (2:00:23)
So this a new form

Translator (2:00:26)
was

hoping it's the new shape, the form of what a sedan can do. And using, you know, whether it's battery technology or not.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:00:36)
Well, ⁓ to comment on the visibility, ⁓ despite the fact that you have a fastback profile, the car does have actually better rearward visibility than I would expect given the shape of the car. ⁓ you've done a good job with outward visibility. That was well executed. ⁓ personally, I prefer cars over SUVs.

Translator (2:01:06)
I like SUVs.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:01:08)
I am not an SUV person.

So ⁓ I'm glad to see that someone is still working on car-shaped ⁓ cars.

Translator (2:01:18)
I'm glad ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (2:01:22)
all well thank you so much for your time josh

Sam Abuelsamid (2:01:30)
⁓ very well it's the first time i've been to this particular ⁓ and don't think anybody's done anything here before and the car was really good very very impressed with the car i you know i always like a little more power but i think what i would if i was if i was in the market for a car like this i would probably actually go for the three fifty ⁓

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:01:43)
favorite between them.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:02:01)
It's got more than adequate performance as a daily driver. This is not a sports car. Unless of course you opt to make an F-Sport version of it. who knows? The 350E would probably be my choice if I was buying one.

But the hybrid is also really good. The new powertrain is big improvement over the previous generations. Having the extra electrical power there, the engine doesn't feel like it has to work as hard. ⁓ I've always admired the efficiency of Toyota Lexus hybrid systems. ⁓ But gotta be honest, it's most refined sounding when you're accelerating. ⁓

you know having having one between the nvh things were done to the structure and just having more electrical power so it's handling more of the load ⁓ the engine in way that's more as a range extender

makes it feel a lot better and i think it's more it's fitting with the lexus vibe

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:03:10)
Yeah. OK. That's great to hear.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:03:14)
So, let's get started. So, Cynthia Tenhouse. As far, you the ES is the last of the original Lexus models. It's been in the lineup since day one in 1989. And, you know, it's transformed quite a bit in this generation. guess let's start with what, to Lexus, what...

What is the E.S. supposed to represent? What is this car supposed to be?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:03:46)
Yeah, so great question. mean, I think your first comment, like this was one of the models that founded the brand, right? And we kind of joked in the beginning, we had one and a half cars with Alice and the ES. The ES was kind of half a car to start with. And it's now, age generation, I mean, it plays an incredibly important role for us. I think over the last 14 years, it's been one of our top three sellers. We know people still want sedans.

I think this is a model like we, as other people have backed away from sedans, like we are not. We still see there's a market for it. And I for people who want a sedan, who want a different, like most people have moved over to crossovers and SUVs. But I think it's refinement, it's craftsmanship, right? I mean, there's a different feel to the EOS. And I think this eighth generation now, to me, it's like it takes what was great about EOS and it's just made it even better. And you commented on.

It's gone a step up with the craftsmanship. It's more modern now. ⁓ So I think one of the things I'm really excited about is that ES had like probably that was one of the highest loyalty models for us, but it was an older buyer. ⁓ For us, I think this now, this new model, ⁓ all new ES is really going to start to attract younger buyers because it does have more technology. It's a little bit more modern feel.

But yet it still has all of the great things about ES, the craftsmanship refinement, those elements.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:05:19)
Yeah, there's certainly a lot more technology. You've got the latest generation multimedia system in there, the Rene-based software. The car has grown pretty substantially from the last generation. I commenting yesterday that, I think, except for the most recent generation of LS, that just was Sunset, it's pretty much as large or larger than any of the prior generations of the LS. And it's clearly not meant to be...

a replacement for LS. But when you talk about attracting younger buyers, ⁓ do you think a sedan that's relatively large, is that the right size segment to attract those buyers?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:06:09)
think, I mean, so you take IS and ES. IS is an askew, younger and sporty, right? So I think young yet they're gonna go more for that. And when I say younger, I'm not saying like, you know, a 20, 30 year old.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:06:22)
Almost 20 and 30 year olds can't afford any new car.

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:06:25)
Yeah, they can't afford a car at all, right? ⁓ But I do think what we saw in clinic was, and it was really interesting to me to see these younger, it's definitely skews more diverse, it really attracts that audience. ⁓

And I think they really loved it in the size. mean, yeah, you're absolutely right. is bigger. It's more like an LS. But I think once people got into it, it was like they loved the space and the spaciousness. So it's going to appeal to a certain buyer. not going to be, it would be too big for me. Like I would not be, I drive an NX. I like small cars. ⁓ So I think it's going to be dependent on the person, obviously.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:07:05)
Yeah, every customer's got different desires, different personality. want something different. The styling is obviously a very different direction for Lexus. We see some of that in the RZ and certainly now some of what we see in this one, we also see in the TZ that's coming up. How's the response been to the change in design direction for the brand?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:07:33)
It's

been positive. mean, I think, you know, the spindle brawl has evolved over time, obviously. And I think now, like, the three together, you do start to see similar cues. And overall, like, at clinic, I mean, it was, I think for us, it was, it felt like a big departure because we know a certain look and feel. It's, the response was really, really positive on it. And so I think the new design direction, it's going to be, I think it's going to appeal to.

⁓ to quite a few people.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:08:07)
So

yesterday during the presentation, somebody asked the question of what you expect the market share split to be between the EV and the hybrid. think the answer was about 20 % EV, 80 % hybrid. ⁓ Having driven it now and experienced it. And also, it was interesting yesterday when we

when we driving the 350E, we stopped to take some photos. And ⁓ there was a group of, we were at this park, there was this lake, and there was a group of ⁓ older women that were hiking, and they stopped and started asking us questions about And they were very, very interested in it. We were driving the blue one, and they loved the color, they loved the way it looked, but they were really interested in the fact that it was an EV. And so I guess my question is,

how prepared is lexus to respond to the market, potential market shifts obviously the hybrid is also very fuel efficient, 46 combined ⁓ but given where things are with fuel prices right now ⁓ and where they might stay for a while, how much flexibility do you have to shift that mix if necessary depending on

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:09:32)
Yeah, well, that's the beauty of their multi-pathway approach. It's a great one. offers, obviously, freedom of choice for the customer so they can decide, like, I like an ES, but now I can pick. Do I want hybrid? Do I want all-electric? Where in the past, was like, if you want an RZ, you have to like a buff, right? It's like one one size fits all. ⁓ But it also offers us flexibility with production, which is really huge. So initially, we thought battery electric, we kind of had it skewed a little bit like a higher percent.

okay now let's like bring it back down but it gives us flexibility as well so we certainly will be watching the market seeing how people respond and we can make those adjustments if we need to.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:10:15)
On the technology side, you mentioned a lot of new technology in here, but ⁓ when you sit in it, you're not necessarily overwhelmed by it. It's not like getting into, say, a Tesla or something, where all you have is a screen. There's a little more of a mix. Was that part of the thinking in trying to balance that out for a Lexus customer?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:10:44)
Yeah, definitely. think when we approached it, we were like, it's going to be a Lexus first and an EV second. It needs to have great technology. And we've definitely seen with Tesla, there is more of a move. People want tech. And we know younger buyers want tech. But I think for Lexus, our DNA is craftsmanship and a refined interior.

So that was really important for us to balance it. And truly, I think we will hopefully attract some people who were the first early adopters and were in a Tesla. now they want, you know, we had people obviously defect from Lexus and go to Tesla because they wanted an EV and we didn't have one yet. So I think there are people who want that refined interior that feels like luxury. It's a luxury product, right? It should feel like there's some refinement in it.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:11:28)
Yeah, especially when you sit in, especially in the EV, you have things like the bamboo trim. Big fan of bamboo. I think that things like that were a really nice touch.

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:11:41)
It's a little bit more modern, right? It's not like the dark wood. It just feels so luxury and craftsmanship, but kind of now a little bit more modern, elevated look. So I'm glad you like it.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:11:52)
⁓ given given the size of the car ⁓ now how how much you expect ⁓ potential you know for demand for example from livery services for this car especially given the rear seat room ⁓

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:12:10)
That's a really good point. I would think it would be a great with the rear, the features and the ottoman. That would be the one I would choose. Certainly with like, you've got great fuel efficiency whether you go with the Al-Elector or the hybrid. We haven't forecasted, we started to look into that deeply, but I think you're spot on. That would be a great chauffeur car, or livery service car for sure.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:12:38)
⁓ What I guess in terms of your marketing approach for this car You know as you launch as you prepare to launch this what's ⁓ What what's the approach you're take with this? How are you going to sell the new?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:12:54)
Yeah, so I think a couple of things. One, from your traditional approach, we'll have a full campaign and market starting in June. And it will be both focused on general luxury market as well as multicultural audiences. what we're focusing on really is one, exterior styling. And like you said, there's different cues at Sporty or now. ⁓

the interior is a huge selling feature. So really trying to capture that and showcase it. But the big thing for us, in addition to all of the traditional things, is really getting this product out into the market and getting people in it. Because I think we have definitely seen, and over the last couple of years, we've been really focused on taking our products. We have a Lexus pop-up that we take around.

to be able to actually showcase our product and get people to sit in it. And we're attaching this pop-up to kind of existing buzz-worthy, really cool events where you're probably non-traditional Lexus ⁓ Conquest buyers would be. ⁓ I think Lexus has, like you said, it's changed, right? You think about when the GX came out, that was really a different approach for Lexus and captured a ton of new buyers to the brand and a lot of interest. And this really kind of has a halo effect.

on the brand. So we've seen that there are people who still have kind of an impression of what Lexus is and it might be from having written in the backseat of their parents ES or RX and right they see it a certain way. It's changed a lot so we know if we can get people into our product it really changes their perception and we actually now last year we had our highest one of our highest conquest rates of 59 % new buyers coming into the brand.

So we're really excited about that. are younger buyers, young affluent buyers, more diverse. So the big learning, and I think what we'll do with EES again is get it out into the world and take it places where these young affluent buyers are and get them to sit in and to experience it will be the big thing.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:15:00)
And with the retail partners, with dealers, because you've got an EV and a hybrid variant of essentially the same car, are you working with the dealers to help them to be able to help customers figure out what is the best option for any particular customer?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:15:26)
Yeah, it's a great question. We absolutely are because I think it's really a lifestyle choice, right, when it comes down to it and what's going to fit your lifestyle. You've had the luxury of you can take them all out and really experience them and try to think about what would fit your lifestyle. So we are doing a lot of training with our dealers. We did an early... ⁓

kind of a sneak peek that Sakiko worked on where we took the ES out to our dealers and actually exposed them to it several months back and had consumers come and look at it. So we're really starting the training process to make sure that it's not just product training, but it's kind of lifestyle training and that they can have that conversation with the guest. And then the other big thing is we now have a test drive program. So if you want to take the ES home with you ⁓ for a weekend and see, you know, see if the

electric fits your lifestyle you can do that. So I think that'll be a really important feature. Certainly like there's a lot of early adopters that they know right like that fits me it doesn't but then there's the people who haven't made that switch yet so for them

Sam Abuelsamid (2:16:31)
She is making

that jump from the early adopters to the next group.

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:16:34)
and who's the next generation, right, that's going to now start to move into B.U.B.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:16:40)
Do you think

⁓ that having the Bev in the lineup will help with moving that demographic of the ES customer?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:16:51)
Yeah, I do. I do. Yeah, I don't think. There's probably fewer boomers and like, or great that are making that change. mean, there are, but it's definitely going to help, think, with bringing in more younger folks to the brand. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:17:04)
Okay. Anything else on the ES that I haven't asked about that you want

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:17:16)
I think you've covered a lot too. I'm excited that you're excited about it and we think it's going to be a great model for us.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:17:30)
I guess one last thing in terms of overall volumes, not necessarily split between the two, but do you expect this generation to grow the overall volumes for the ES in North America?

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:17:44)
Yeah, I think, we have, because our target is? This year is 13,000. Next year we're jumping on. Sorry. Yeah, it started late. Right. Yeah, so next year that'll go up.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:17:51)
30 or

last year was about 56 I think for the whole year for ES. Little low but yeah. okay. All right great well Cynthia thank you so much for your time. appreciate it.

Cynthia Tenhouse (2:18:16)
Yeah, thank you.

Sam Abuelsamid (2:18:19)
Thanks for watching.