Sam Abuelsamid (00:00)
this this is episode four hundred and sixty of Wheelbearings. I am Sam Abuelsamid from Tro from Telemetry. Can't speak today.

Nicole Wakelin (00:08)
I am Nicole Wakelin You're having a rough start, Sam.

Roberto Baldwin (00:14)
okay. I'm Roberto Baldwin from SAE International. There you go. Easy peasy.

Nicole Wakelin (00:18)
There we go.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:20)
all right. ⁓ Nicole, what have you been driving? Well, actually, first of all, did everybody have a a good holiday weekend? Which is why we're late, by the way, 'cause you it's fourth of July weekend.

Roberto Baldwin (00:23)
Things things just went off the

Nicole Wakelin (00:31)
I did.

I went to Washington D C and it was fantastic. It was really cool.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:34)
So were you one of

the like the three people that was wandering around the mall?

Nicole Wakelin (00:38)
There were actually the mall was really crowded. Honest to goodness, there was a ton of people. ⁓ it was very, very crowded. We were there kind of early and then ⁓ we went to watch the fireworks from the roof of Russ's office. ⁓ so we left, but then there were I think

There were almost like half a million at one point and they evacuated because of the weather. And then not everybody could get back in. So they have somewhere around like a hundred and fifty thousand that were actually inside. But then it was cool. People were all over the city watching it because it kind of screwed things up. So on street corners and, you know, rooftops and everywhere. It was really it was actually really kind of cool. It was really neat. I was glad I was there.

Sam Abuelsamid (01:17)
Okay. Did you see the the melting arch?

Nicole Wakelin (01:22)
The melting arch?

Sam Abuelsamid (01:24)
Yeah. The the the the the plywood and tarp model of the triumphal arch that they want to build that is was kind of falling apart.

Roberto Baldwin (01:25)
They just the t the Timu arch they put at

Nicole Wakelin (01:36)
I didn't see an arch that was falling

apart. I saw an arch that was fine. and I don't know if I'm I don't I there was an arch. Is that what that was supposed to be? It didn't look like it was falling apart. It just looked like an arch. It looked like yeah. It was white with a gold.

Sam Abuelsamid (01:46)
Yeah.

⁓ the I mean the pictures that people posted online showed the caulking

yeah, had showed the caulking oozing out from between some of the parts and

Nicole Wakelin (01:56)
I don't know. I didn't like walk right up to it, but it looked fine when I walked by, so

Sam Abuelsamid (01:59)
Okay.

All right. ⁓ all right. Well, ⁓ let's let's carry on with the show then. What what have you been driving, Nicole?

Nicole Wakelin (02:07)
Okay.

⁓ I drove very briefly because I was out of town for a good chunk of last week. I drove the 2026 Ford F three fifty Super Duty King Ranch FX4 off-road.

Roberto Baldwin (02:24)
Ugh,

I'm so tired already.

Nicole Wakelin (02:26)
I know.

That's a lot. Too much name. Too much name. So ⁓ it's it's really weird, honestly, for me to drive a super duty truck, especially it's not even like it's an F250, F-350. Let's just go all out. I don't drive trucks like this. I have no need for a truck like this. This is such a very specific little group of people who will go all the way to an F-350 Super Duty King Ranch with the FX4 off-road package. So

Sam Abuelsamid (02:27)
Too much name.

Nicole Wakelin (02:56)
It feels big. It feels loud. Feels like a truck. I literally said to Russ, so this is the best thing though. My fleet company had said to me, You're getting an XC 60 this week. And I said, Okay, like the day before it was supposed to get that car. And Russ looks out the window, he goes, That's a weird-looking Volvo. I'm like, What? And I'm like

Sam Abuelsamid (03:17)
Uh-huh.

Nicole Wakelin (03:19)
That in fact is not a Volvo. What the heck is that? So they got a little confused. I was like, that is not what I was expecting the last 24 hours. so this is it's big. It's just really big. It starts at gosh, the King Ranch. And I didn't have a Monronie and it's so hard to build trucks out. But the King Ranch starts at $79,000 before you add on.

higher output engines and the out the fact that this was you know had the off-road package just is an expensive truck ⁓ and it has a 6.7 liter high output power stroke v8 turbo diesel which is 500 horsepower and 1200 pound feet of torque so this is for heavy duty towing like really really really really heavy duty towing there's no reason on earth anybody would buy this unless they have to tow stuff all day every day.

I I just don't understand when I would get it. So it's really it's very limited. People do it anyway. I felt like I pulled up next to just like a regular old F one fifty and I'm like, wow, when you're looking down at an F one fifty, you were in something big. So so it wasn't that I disliked it. It's just it's very hard to evaluate this because it's so single minded in its purpose. ⁓ you know, if you're doing heavy duty towing and stuff, this is the kind of truck that you want to get. I

Sam Abuelsamid (04:18)
And yet people do it anyway.

Roberto Baldwin (04:21)
Yeah.

Ha ha ha.

Nicole Wakelin (04:44)
I love the diesel engine in this and I had to I double check before the show started because I thought, wait a minute, which engine should I have? But ⁓ it has it, you know, there was an there was a diesel engine thing in trucks where it's like loud and obnoxious. And then there's a diesel engine in trucks where it's just like, I'm a diesel, just so you know. That's what this one was. It's not obnoxiously loud. I heard it when they started it up to take it away this morning, but it wasn't one of those like I heard it when they started it up and the entire house vibrated with the sound of it.

So that was a good test as to how calm and quiet this engine is. You don't know it's a diesel while you're driving it. You really don't hear the diesel engine. And I always think of diesel's being noisy, especially on something this big. ⁓ and the King Ranch, this is the fanciest of all. It's it's just so fancy. It has so much detail on it. It looks a little bit like you should be wearing cowboy boots and a cowboy hat the whole time.

And the little logo looks like a W. So I always think of any King Ranch as the Wakeland edition. so because it looks like a W. I feel like I was gonna buy it, right? Doesn't it look like a W? It's really the the Wakeland edition, Ford F 350 Wakeland. ⁓ so this is, you know, it this it's just it's so big. It's so powerful. Now it was nice to drive, it was surprisingly, and it was dually like you've got it's crazy.

Sam Abuelsamid (05:44)
Mm-hmm.

It does the yeah, the King Ranch brand does look like a W, which is kinda odd, but yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (06:09)
So it's just like what am I gonna do with this? How am I gonna test this? There's nothing

Sam Abuelsamid (06:13)
Well, what you what you

could have done was, you know, chain it to your house and drag your house to D C so you'd have some place to stay. You wouldn't need to get a hotel. You could just drag the house to D C. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (06:18)
Yank your hoff. Yeah. Yeah. Saved you money.

Nicole Wakelin (06:20)
Right? I could have taken it right down. Who

needs a hotel? I can just park this right up on the mall. ⁓ so it was so it's hard for me. I feel really it's I can say the things that it does, that it has, you know, the high payload, that it has the high towing tow rating, that it has the high output turbo diesel, that the King Ranch makes it really very fancy inside. That you there's it it's a truck that does work that doesn't feel like you should be doing work in it because it's so nice inside.

⁓ but in terms of really using it, it's hard to evaluate it because I will never use this the way the person who's really looking at this kind of truck will use it. I am not towing that kind of stuff or or or doing that. So that makes it a little tough. It was easy to drive for a truck this big. I did have to park. I never pulled it into an actual parking space between two other vehicles because I wanted to leave both of those vehicles the way they were when I found them.

So I chose instead to park where there was no vehicles because even it's just it's so big. I there were some parking lots I pulled into and I'm right at the edge edge. Like and I can see I am smack in that parking space and my butt is still sticking out into traffic. Like it's just it's gigantic. It's gigantic. So if you want a gigantic truck that you are actually gonna be doing real work in, this would be a great choice. And you know it has that 20 inch 20-inch.

Twelve inch center touchscreen, you have a big touch screen, you've got charging porch, you got Apple CarPlay, you've got all these, you've got all the bells and whistles and that really beautiful interior. It is incredibly comfortable. but I I feel like it's it's a tough one to review because I can't do it justice because I don't drive this kind of truck.

Roberto Baldwin (08:08)
If Ford wants to send me one, I'll take one and take it up to my uncle's ranch where he has like trailers for horses and cattle and

Nicole Wakelin (08:13)
There you go. Like

that's that's really who should be getting this. Like I appreciate the opportunity to drive it, but it's still you guys.

Roberto Baldwin (08:17)
Cine, fine, fine, fine, fine, you know.

I actually

I think he has an F two fifty. I think he actually has a a yeah. A super duty. Yeah, he doesn't have the as big as a three fifty 'cause

Nicole Wakelin (08:24)
So even his isn't as big as that, right? So

Sam Abuelsamid (08:29)
You

you you could you could have gone and picked up a few bags of mulch.

Nicole Wakelin (08:29)
even his isn't this crazy. I could have picked up a couple I could yeah. I could have just to say I used it, right? yeah, right? It'll get so far forward I'll have to be like crawling into the track of the bed to get it out when it slides all the way against the cab. so you know, this is I

Roberto Baldwin (08:32)
That's throwing the back and then you can't get to it, gets so far forward.

Nicole Wakelin (08:48)
I think that it would be a great choice for someone who is looking for a truck that can do has that capability, has a little off-road package in there, but also for the interior, if you want something that's luxurious, like the King Ranch really is beautiful inside, which is sort of a they don't feel like they should match. You can do incredibly heavy-duty truck stuff with this, and yet you get inside and it's sort of coddles you, which is a neat space to be in. ⁓ that it really is that capable and that comfortable. So overall I liked it.

My assessment is is large.

Roberto Baldwin (09:20)
Big.

Sam Abuelsamid (09:20)
They have you ever been sent an F four fifty dually? Or you're lucky. 'Cause if you think this is big, having the dual wheel rear dual wheel rear axle ⁓ really makes it challenging to go anywhere.

Nicole Wakelin (09:24)
No. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (09:26)
Well.

Nicole Wakelin (09:33)
This wasn't this was a dually.

I mean this was a three fifty, but it was a dually. I was just Yes.

Roberto Baldwin (09:37)
They sent you the dually too? Did

Sam Abuelsamid (09:38)
it was a dually?

Roberto Baldwin (09:40)
they think you had like a fifth wheel just hanging around your house or?

Sam Abuelsamid (09:40)
Okay.

Nicole Wakelin (09:44)
I I have no idea. That's just like how did I get this? Like like again, I'm driving it.

Roberto Baldwin (09:48)
You know what? Nicole's gonna

be dragging like half of a mobile home across the state. We should probably send her a three fifty dually.

Nicole Wakelin (09:55)
Right?

Did they get like they they get a little confused? I I don't know what happened. So yeah. So it was it was it was huge. It was huge and it's expensive and ⁓ yeah, it's it's ridiculously big. ⁓ I do have the destination fee because I just have it, you know, overall for the anyone to take a guess.

Roberto Baldwin (10:19)
Twenty five hundred.

Sam Abuelsamid (10:21)
Twenty seven ninety five.

Nicole Wakelin (10:22)
Robbie wins twenty one ninety five.

Roberto Baldwin (10:25)
⁓ so much money. Seems doesn't seem enough to be honest.

Sam Abuelsamid (10:26)
No, that's not right. On on the on the Ford website

Nicole Wakelin (10:27)
That's what it says.

Sam Abuelsamid (10:31)
or on your

Nicole Wakelin (10:32)
⁓

I had pulled it from f wait, did I and l I mean it's conceivable. I pulled it wrong. Let me go look. Let me go look right now.

Roberto Baldwin (10:38)
Don't try to take steal my thunder, Sam.

Nicole Wakelin (10:41)
It's

just because he lost. No, let's see. Ford trucks. Trucks. My internet's that that's super dute. Building price. Who's gonna get their first? Who's gonna get their first? It's probably ⁓ mine is not cooperating. ⁓ that didn't do what I wanted to do.

Roberto Baldwin (10:45)
gonna super do de

Building prize.

Nicole Wakelin (11:05)
I've had an internet fail. it's not working. Literally the site won't load for me. I'm getting like like code.

Roberto Baldwin (11:05)
Doo doo.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:14)
Let's see. Yeah, twenty seven ninety five.

Nicole Wakelin (11:17)
27.95. Where did it get 2195? Sorry. maybe I accidentally clicked on 25 when I pulled it. That that's conceivable.

Roberto Baldwin (11:20)
Just take it.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:21)
It used to be twenty

one ninety five, but that was last year.

Roberto Baldwin (11:28)
My God, so many things.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:28)
Yeah. 'Cause they just raised it about

a month ago to from twenty five ninety five to twenty seven ninety five.

Nicole Wakelin (11:31)
⁓ twenty

seven ninety sorry, Robbie. Twenty seven ninety five.

Roberto Baldwin (11:39)
That's a lot.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:41)
It's stupid expensive. I mean it it you know, to be fair, you know, shipping ⁓ a dual wheel rear ax dual rear dual wheel rear axle, a dually long bed super duty from Louisville to anywhere is going to be an expensive proposition.

Nicole Wakelin (11:42)
I mean it is a lot of truck. It's that's too much.

I

mean it's probably a few times you can look at it and say not completely unwarranted that it's more than average because shipping this thing is not gonna be cheap. Yeah. So so there you go. So that's the Ford F three fifty Super Duty King Ranch FX4 off-road with yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (12:01)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (12:07)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (12:07)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (12:29)
All right. Well, Robbie, I think we've got an all forward review section this week. So what did you drive?

Nicole Wakelin (12:30)
Ha ha

Me too.

Roberto Baldwin (12:36)
All Ford all

the time. I I drove the Ford Explorer Tremor.

Nicole Wakelin (12:38)
Woohoo.

Roberto Baldwin (12:46)
Which is a car. Well it's not a car. It's an SUV. Okay, so the Ford Explorer, it's it's a cop car, is what it is. And and it's

Nicole Wakelin (12:55)
Ha ha

ha.

Sam Abuelsamid (12:57)
It it is it is the best selling cop car in America.

Roberto Baldwin (13:01)
Yes. So it is a cop car. It is as a SUV it's fine. There's nothing like very exciting about the Ford Explorer. Like it does the thing it's supposed to do. It feels very big when you're inside of it. Which makes people feel safe, I guess. that's it. That's the Ford Explorer. I can't it's it's yeah, I I I But then they said, Hey, you know what we should do? We should put a tremor package on there. I d so now the car makes zero sense in my opinion.

It's got it's what is it? So th they outfit it with a Eco Boost twin turbo three liter V six has four hundred horsepower, four hundred and fifty pound feet of torque. It's still a big heavy SUV. So yeah, it goes fast, but

Nicole Wakelin (13:33)
It's a point of the things that they are.

Sam Abuelsamid (13:51)
But because it's heavy, it's not really that fast.

Roberto Baldwin (13:54)
Yes,

it's not really that fast. That's the crazy thing, is that you've you've made this very heavy truck a quicker. Okay. Sure. It's got a little you can just it's a little bit of a growl, maybe, sort of, kind of. Not really. That's so you're not really getting much of a visceral feel out of it. Yeah, it's gonna be quicker than the regular Ford Explorer. Cool. And then it's made for off roading. I suppose do I wanna offroad something this big and heavy? I mean it's it's it's ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (14:25)
It it's you know, it's got it's got some ⁓ some underbody protection. You know, it's got a couple of skid plates and all terrain tires.

Roberto Baldwin (14:26)
It has like ha it got s it's got skid plates and it's been raised

like a like an inch or so. It's been there's all these things that they've done to this vehicle. For a vehicle that really w no one was ask I don't know were people asking for the like when I see the tremor on like I'm like, okay. An F one fifty tremor, sure. ⁓ the the Maverick tremor, why not? People want a small little truck they can go woo have fun with.

Nicole Wakelin (14:43)
Anything.

Roberto Baldwin (14:56)
⁓ but then you're like, well let's just put it on the explorer and I'm just like, Wait, what?

Sam Abuelsamid (15:04)
If if anything, you know, the Explorer is actually gonna be a lot more useful off road than a Maverick. You know, it's got more ground clearance. It's got more power. You know, the the the Maverick tremor really isn't very useful off road. ⁓ you know, so

Roberto Baldwin (15:20)
least it's

but there's like here's the thing is that you're you're at it's this is not this car. This is a d I need a car to go to pick up groceries. I need a car to arrest people in. I need a car to go to Costco. I need a car I need to f you know, I need a car because I have seven kids and like they all play soccer for some reason. And so I have to haul all these children everywhere and I have to shove all their soccer crap in the back of my the back of my vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid (15:47)
But the thing

the thing is if you have the Explorer Tremor and you have seven kids, you're gonna have to leave a couple of behind anyway, because it's only got six seats.

Roberto Baldwin (15:55)
That's true.

Yeah. So you lose seats. It has it has the captain's chairs in the back, which is like cool. I guess that's fancy. That's nice. It's like a you look in the back, you're like, Am I in a minivan? What's happening? That's why every time I look in the back of an SUV and it has captain's seats, I'm like, ⁓ I got the minivan ⁓ package.

Sam Abuelsamid (15:59)
Yeah, so

Ha

Nicole Wakelin (16:08)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (16:16)
Well, you know, I think the thing is, you know, a lot of Americans like to give off the impression that they are adventurous and go out into the woods and do stuff even though they never actually do. Yes.

Roberto Baldwin (16:26)
We we are l we are like Boy Scouts. We are always

prepared for a thing that we probably won't do. Yeah, we're you know, I see a lot of raised trucks ⁓ that have zero mud on them. I see and I do see some that are just filthy and I'm like, good for you. Good for you. But then I see a lot of them are just like these are just glimmering, shiny, clean. I raise my truck because

Nicole Wakelin (16:35)
Do not need to ever be prepared for.

Sam Abuelsamid (16:36)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (16:56)
At some point I'm gonna do some cool off roading. Or they raise it because they think it looks cool. I think it's mostly that to be honest. for the the again

Sam Abuelsamid (17:02)
Yeah. Well, especially

because many of those raised trucks have these low profile tires on there. So you can't actually take them off road or th you know, they're just gonna sit there and spin all four wheels.

Roberto Baldwin (17:08)
Yeah, the Brodozers. Those are

I'm not sure what those are about, but ⁓ that's that's you know, yeah I g you do you, I guess. you know what's crazy is that this is a you know, this is not a cheap vehicle. But it's the first vehicle I've gotten into in a while that isn't like an entry level sort of like price range that doesn't have a wireless charger. Like I was confused by that. It has all these little cubbies to put things in and has rubber for the cubbies, which I appreciate. Yeah, there's two little shelf there's like a shelf and then there's like a little hole where you can where the where the USB

Sam Abuelsamid (17:35)
Well there's that there's that little shelf.

Roberto Baldwin (17:42)
Port is, but you know, both of them have like rubber are rubberized. So when you put things in, they're less likely to go shooting out, which I appreciate. Neither of them have wire. I was like, this is where the wires charging is. And I just kept moving my phone around. I'm like, I guess this is it. And then I stuck it down in the little hole. And I'm like, nope. And then I looked at I'm like, this thing doesn't have wireless charging. Which is like, okay, fine. But like I remember one of the

One of the places that does surveys. Like one of the number one things people want from the cars now is wireless charging. People don't want cables, apparently. They just want to stick their phone down, have it charge, and just go and do whatever they have to do. Which I understand. You know, ⁓ it does have CarPlay and Apple Auto and it's or I'm sorry, ⁓ Android auto, not Apple Auto. That'd be weird. and the seats are you know, the seats are pretty comfy. They're kinda like a like a velvet cu what you was where were they, like suede or something?

Like I do like the th cloth on the seats. It was really nice. I really I really enjoy that. I've called this car like the Sugar Ray of Explorers because it keeps having the little yellow what'd you call it on there? So it has like ⁓ what is it, frosted tips? It has little accents. So it's the sugar ray of explorers. Like you it used to be like at one point you're like, this is kinda ⁓ all right, cool.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:36)
Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

L little accents.

Nicole Wakelin (18:51)
Didn't

Sam Abuelsamid (19:00)
Well you those

orange pockets in the in each of the wheels. So like you know, the the the alloy wheels on this thing, you know, they have like five pockets in them and one is painted orange. Yeah. And that you know, that's that's that's so you know where the valve stem is if you need to put air in the tires. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (19:12)
Yeah. Woo, and it has orange stitching everywhere.

Which is helpful to be honest.

Nicole Wakelin (19:22)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (19:23)
If he did that with all cars, I'm like, that's his greatest stuff. Like me looking in a circle twice for some reason, not valveing the valve stand. ⁓ yeah, overall I f if you know, I got ⁓ it says what is it there? EPA. nineteen combined, seventeen city, twenty two highway. I got like seventeen. High seven mid to high seventeen. It's it wasn't yeah.

It's not sipping gases I can tell you that with that with that twin turbo V six. It's just gulping it down. Yeah, I I I I you know what to be honest, I I you know, I had the the the Outback. Was that last week, I believe? Yeah. And that's to me that just felt more i it f it felt like that was a bit ready for for going off road than this. The the problem I have with some of these packages is that they

Sam Abuelsamid (19:50)
No.

Yeah, I think so.

Roberto Baldwin (20:15)
Really they try to make the interior really it's here's an off road package. Now we're gonna make the interior nice. And you're like, What are you doing? Have you been off road? They did have like rubber rubber you yeah, I love rubber floor mats. I don't know why we put carpet in any car that's not a luxury car. It's dumb as far as I'm concerned. What are we doing? Why are we putting carpet in something that we just the messiest time our shoes are we're gonna sit in there? Are you drive I do drive without my shoes on in the summer. Like I

Nicole Wakelin (20:24)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:26)
Yeah, it had really nice rubber floor mats in it.

Roberto Baldwin (20:45)
I actually grip the the clutch and with my toes like a monkey. but even then like you know we I had when I had my WRX, I didn't I had like, you know, the rubber I the rubber things and they were fine. So yeah, the if you love a Ford Explorer, which again tof it's a totally fine car. It's it's not exciting. There's nothing exciting about a Ford Explorer, it doesn't have to be exciting.

Nicole Wakelin (20:51)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (21:13)
And then Ford was like, let's make it exciting. And you're like, but why? Did I I I I'm curious how many people are buying it, how many people were like, I need a pretty meh car. Not it's not a bad car. It's not it's fine. It does all the things you want to do. I want a pretty meh car, but I want you to make it quicker. I want you to raise it. I want you to put expensive tires that I'll just get run down on the street. And I want you to sell it to me for an additional like twelve thousand dollars or something ridiculous.

Nicole Wakelin (21:24)
Yeah.

Just because.

Roberto Baldwin (21:43)
Just because.

Anyway, so how'd you feel about the Fort Explorer?

Sam Abuelsamid (21:46)
Yeah, so, you know, if if people haven't figured it out yet. I also had the Explorer Tremor this week, this past week. ⁓ and ⁓ yeah, I I pretty much agree with everything you said. ⁓ the ⁓ you know, I did you know, we did take it out to we went out to the lake ⁓ one day, ⁓ took Morty and and threw the paddleboard in the back there and went out to the lake and spent spent a few hours out there paddling around and and enjoying it and you know, put you know, put a seat cover

you know, straddled across the the two captains chairs in the second row and then strap Morty in there. ⁓ but yeah, you know, having you've got that shelf there underneath the infotainment screen. That would be a perfect place. You could put two wireless chargers in there. There's enough room for two chargers. 'Cause I had my phone in there. My wife put her phone down on that shelf. There's plenty of room for two good sized phones that you could be charging wirelessly. For for sixty five thousand dollars. Come on, Ford.

Roberto Baldwin (22:27)
It's per

It it was it's

Yeah, it's

you're you're paying a lot of money for something that's in like I was in the Outback. They had it in the outback.

Sam Abuelsamid (22:52)
Yeah.

So so I did take it, you know, on a on a dirt road, you know, the last stretch of the way down to the lake that we hang out at. ⁓ you know, it had some bumps and stuff in it and you know, but for for a vehicle that is nominally supposed to be an off road version of the explorer, typically, you know, for an off road vehicle you want the suspension to be a little more compliant, you know, so that when you go over bumps and rocks and stuff, the wheels can actually move up and down.

and know, get over this stuff. And it was actually quite stiff feeling and not very comfortable to drive even on the road. Yeah, it was kind of bouncing around a little. so it didn't really feel very off road capable. ⁓ but, you know, I like I said, we took it down the the the dirt trail down to the lake, and then I did take it to go to Tractor Supply to buy another cow panel, that we use for

trellis for the melons that were growing. so you know I managed to squeeze, you know, an eight foot cow panel in there. I w I couldn't get the tailgate closed with the cow panel in there. So the tailgate was was bungeed down. But, you know, diagonally I could put a fifty inch wide cow panel through the the opening in the back. So, you know, it's got a decent amount of room in there. and ⁓ but yeah it's I think if I was

If I was in the market for a three row family hauler, you know, my first choice, you know, if I was hauling around a bunch of kids would obviously be a minivan. That's obviously the superior choice. But, you know, if you know, if someone in the family insisted that, you know, a minivan is absolutely verboten, you know, and you had to have some sort of SUV like vehicle.

This you know, this would be o like you say, it'd be okay, but it wouldn't be my first choice. You know, I would take, you know, a Palisade or a Telluride over this. Yeah, ⁓ and

Roberto Baldwin (24:50)
It's yeah.

yeah, definitely. It it just

feels very it f you feel very ⁓ sort of cut off from the world when you're in this vehicle. I felt like I was like, okay, I'm in this big it feels very what like I'm inside a giant like metal pillow. Like it just I just I f I feel very not part of what's happening outside the rest of the world.

Sam Abuelsamid (25:11)
Yeah.

I did I did go out and do some highway driving with with the Blue Cruise to try out, you know, which ⁓ you know, 'cause it's got the latest version of Blue Cruise on there. And, you know, it's the same version I tried probably almost a year ago now in the the Machie rally, so I think it's version one point five. ⁓ and you know, it does work much better than prior versions of of Blue Cruise. ⁓ you know, there's a couple of curves in the highway on the west side of Ann Arbor that

Blue crew is always used to give up and just say, put your hands back on the wheel and it it handles those fine now. ⁓ without you know, without having to grab the wheel. But when when you're in a situation where where you do have to have your hands on the wheel, ⁓ then it still has that problem that all Ford vehicles of the last half dozen years have had because Ford still will not put ⁓

capacitor sensors in their steering wheels. So they don't really know if your hands are on the wheel. And so if you're holding the wheel steady going down the highway, you know, every couple of minutes it'll say, please put your hands back on the wheel and you know, then it'll if you know if you don't if you don't actually move the wheel it'll, you know, say, you know, please jiggle the wheel a little bit so I know that you're still there. It's like, come on. I mean, you know, this this is a no brainer.

Roberto Baldwin (26:39)
⁓

It's a lot of money for the the things that should be in a car that cost this much money, to be honest. And I'm I'm never I'm I've not been a fan of the tremor like s just shove a sticker on. I'm like paint that thing on. Come on. Paint. I d I don't like the tr I I like all the accents, I'm like, those are cool. But then you like either put a badge on it or or put some paint on it. The the sort of hey we just shoved the sticker on there. I'm like, ⁓ You like you got so closed and then you drop the ball at the end.

Sam Abuelsamid (26:45)
Yeah.

well wait, this no, it actually has a tremor badge. It's not a sticker. Yeah. Yeah. So so they they got that part right.

Roberto Baldwin (27:13)
you're right, it does have the badge. Never mind. It was the other tremors. Alright, good job. Now that now

that I remember I'm like, okay, sorry. I was just so like I just got in the car and I just like, ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (27:24)
And and the third row seats are power folding, so there's couple of buttons in the back that you know, you can put the seats down, put back up. ⁓ you know, so that's that's, you know, helpful. if you need that extra space. But yeah, you know, it's just it's it's not it's not very fuel efficient, like you said. You know, I got about eighteen miles per gallon with it. and it's you know, it doesn't ride very well. ⁓ mine at least had a color to it, which they yeah, they call

Roberto Baldwin (27:51)
Yeah, my man's white.

Sam Abuelsamid (27:53)
The one on mine w they call it marsh gray, but it's actually more like a tan color. which is fine. Yeah. You know, it it'll it'll fit right in with the sand dunes, you know, as you're you know, as you're hide trying to hide it. ⁓ but ⁓ you w Nicole, you wanna guess at the destination charge?

Roberto Baldwin (27:59)
That's fine. You can get dirty, no one'll know.

Nicole Wakelin (28:13)
we're gonna go twenty seven hundred. I'm gonna do what the other one was.

Roberto Baldwin (28:17)
⁓ That's

Sam Abuelsamid (28:18)
Little bit over.

Roberto Baldwin (28:19)
yeah. ⁓ I I got sixteen ninety five. You win because like yeah, we already know. You're a winner.

Sam Abuelsamid (28:20)
That's the only th No. Well yes, you win. You win by default.

Nicole Wakelin (28:21)
Do I win?

Hey, I'm gonna win no matter what, I win. Do I

still win?

Sam Abuelsamid (28:31)
Yeah.

⁓ Yeah. so that's the that's the Ford Explorer tremor. It's it's okay it's okay.

Roberto Baldwin (28:35)
I got

I I just got

the I just got the tracks in, the Chevy tracks, and I'll talk more about it l next week. But I'm like, this is way more fun and I and I know you get it and you know like it's just gonna be a cheap Chevy and I'm like, that's exactly what it needs to be

Sam Abuelsamid (28:48)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (28:49)
Goodness.

Sam Abuelsamid (28:54)
Yeah.

And it and it costs one third as much as this Explorer.

Roberto Baldwin (28:57)
Yeah, it's very weird when this sometimes you're like, look at this And then you get in like a cheap car that's made with like leftover parts and like, This is red

Nicole Wakelin (29:09)
Ha ha ha.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:10)
All right. Let's let's move on. ⁓ so Nicole, you had a diesel engine in that F three fifty. But ⁓ diesels are ⁓ they're they're starting to shrink. ⁓ you know, they're they're losing their losing their appeal in the market. especially in Europe where you know, not so long ago, you know, prior to twenty fifteen, you know, diesels were were counted for half the market in Europe.

Nicole Wakelin (29:18)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:37)
and in some countries in Europe it was, you know, significantly over that. I think in Italy at one point they were up to about eighty percent diesel penetration. which is kinda kinda nuts. ⁓ but ⁓ now, you know, one of the first mainstream cars with a diesel engine was the Volkswagen Golf back in the mid nineteen seventies. And ⁓ they're winding down golf diesels. ⁓ they've already pulled it out of the market in the UK.

Roberto Baldwin (29:45)
yeah, it's crazy.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:05)
⁓ and it'll probably be going away in other European countries. ⁓ so it's the the end of the line for the V W golf diesel and and you know, already a bunch of other V W models don't offer diesels anymore.

Roberto Baldwin (30:21)
Bye D S goodbye, ⁓ automatic smoke screen whenever you shoved on slammed on the gas in the nineties.

Nicole Wakelin (30:22)
Not really that's right.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:28)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (30:30)
My friend had one in high school. She had she had a a a golf diesel and she would stomp when you if she stomped on the accelerator, it's just like boom, smokescreen. She's like Batman.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:40)
Roll roll rolling

co rolling coal from a golf.

Roberto Baldwin (30:44)
Yeah. Yeah. She was sh she was Batman whenever ⁓

Nicole Wakelin (30:46)
huh.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:47)
But

but by the time by the time we owned our Jetta diesel that we bought in twenty ten, ⁓ it no longer did that because it had a particulate filter on there. And that, you know, at least the particulate filter was functional. ⁓ the the Nox filter, not so much, but the particulate filter was functional. And of course, you know, that's that's why, you know, de one of the reasons diesels are going away is because of dieselgate, you know, 'cause VW kind of cheated a little on emissions testing.

Nicole Wakelin (31:17)
She's a little bit so nicely.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:17)
⁓ and

Roberto Baldwin (31:20)
Just scooch. I just cheated. Just a scooch.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:20)
I was they they paid a few tens of billions of dollars in fines and had to buy back hundreds of thousands of cars and Yeah. ⁓ I I was looking up some I was looking up some data last week when I saw this and according to I C C T, which was the organization that uncovered the whole dieselgate thing, the International Council for Clean Transportation.

Roberto Baldwin (31:28)
People went to jail. Yeah, it was a

Nicole Wakelin (31:31)
It's a little

cheap.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:46)
Diesel market share in Europe in twenty seventeen across all of Europe was forty four percent. in twenty twenty four it was down to sixteen percent and dropping. So yeah, so so it's the and plus, you know, now especially here in the US, you know, diesel is so much more expensive than gasoline. Yeah, even even with the potential fuel efficiency savings, it's hard to make the case for buying a diesel.

Roberto Baldwin (31:56)
Yeah. Well

Somebody wanted me to drive a diesel from San Francisco to LA with w it was like six hundred miles of range. What was that? Was it Chevy? ⁓ it doesn't matter. Anyway, they they the piece the reason people in Europe are buying ⁓ was because they got, you know, their efficient their gas efficiency, you know, they got more miles per gallon or per liter than a gas car. So that's why people would buy them. You had to pay a little bit of a premium at the at the offset, but then in the long run. Now we got hybrids, so we're like, well, we don't need diesel.

Sam Abuelsamid (32:23)
Could be.

Yeah, exactly.

Roberto Baldwin (32:43)
This is actually cleaner

and and you know, we have hybrids, we have E Vs, we have P heavs. Diesel's kinda like it's it's only for big trucks that need a haul a entire home, like Nicole usually does on her on her weekends. But for some reason she didn't do it this past weekend. She's

Nicole Wakelin (32:54)
Right.

Not this last weekend. But otherwise

Sam Abuelsamid (32:59)
Had the perfect

opportunity, you know, with a th F three fifty dually diesel and you missed it. ⁓ did did either of you ever drive the ⁓ F one fifty diesel that they sold back starting in ⁓ twenty eighteen?

Nicole Wakelin (32:59)
don't see. Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (33:03)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (33:04)
I know.

Roberto Baldwin (33:17)
⁓ no.

Nicole Wakelin (33:19)
I don't I mean, I don't think so. I doubt. Maybe, probably not.

Sam Abuelsamid (33:24)
So, you know,

for Ford you know, Ford launched you know, a three liter diesel V six in the in the F one fifty in twenty eighteen. And ⁓ you know, it like back back it in like the late two thousands, all you know, Stallant or well Dod Ram, yeah, still Dodge actually at the time. Dodge and GM and Ford were all planning to launch diesel engines in their light duty trucks. and you know

Dodge, you know, was gonna do their the three liter ⁓ ecodiesel that they you know, and they eventu they eventually did that. Well actually at one point they were going to put ⁓ you know, the five liter Cummins diesel that went into the Nissan Titan for a while. That was originally designed for the Dodge Ram. That was supposed to go into the Ram fifteen hundred. And then then they canceled that program. Dodge canceled it when they were going through their bankruptcy. And then a few years later they added the the three liter Eco diesel V six.

Nicole Wakelin (34:08)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (34:12)
that makes sense.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:23)
which ultimately cost them a bunch of money and fines as well. and GM was working on a a four and a half liter ⁓ diesel V eight, which was a really cool engine. You know, it was packaged the same size as a small block V eight, so they could have used it anywhere where they used the the small block. that one got cancelled during their bankruptcy process. And ⁓ Ford was working on a four point four liter diesel V eight, which

got cancelled from the F one fifty program, but they did event they did ultimately end up building that. But they used it in ⁓ in Europe in Range Rovers and Land Rover models. And th they also had a three liter V six diesel that they had in in in some of the Land Rover vehicles. ⁓ and that one is the one the the V six is the one they put in the F one fifty. And they sold it for about three years before they finally discontinued it. But this thing I went to the the launch drive for

the F one fifty diesel and it was ⁓ really fuel efficient. They they were doing ⁓ during the drive program they were doing a little ⁓ competition. They had a a drive loop that we could take if take one of these trucks out there and see what kind of fuel economy we could get out of it. It was about a twenty mile loop. and ⁓ you know, so I I went around the the the loop a couple of times. The first time I just did it, you know, everything normal, just you know, trying to drive efficiently.

and came back and got like thirty one miles per gallon with it. And then I tucked in the mirrors, ⁓ and did all kinds of crazy stuff the next time around. you know, coasting and, you know, putting it in neutral while it was going downhill. ⁓ and got ⁓ about thirty six almost thirty six miles per gallon with it.

Roberto Baldwin (36:14)
Wow.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:16)
Yeah. But ⁓ yeah, that that one ⁓ yeah ultimately got cancelled after just a few years because apparently they had a lot of reliability problems with that with that engine.

Nicole Wakelin (36:16)
Well and

Roberto Baldwin (36:28)
Yeah, I mean it's new and one car and after some yeah. I mean you're gonna yeah, that's a I I don't that be people will always be like, Well, you know, I'm gonna buy the first year and they're like, Well, do you wanna? What do you wanna do?

Nicole Wakelin (36:47)
I think that.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:48)
Probably

not when they do something like that.

Roberto Baldwin (36:50)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:53)
⁓ all right, let's let's move on. ⁓ BMW. ⁓ BMW had an event in ⁓ Spartanburg last week at their factory down there where they where they build the X five to unveil the next generation X five. ⁓ and did did you go there, Nicole, for that? Okay. Okay. Well, ⁓ they they unveiled the the all new X five. ⁓ it's

Nicole Wakelin (37:12)
I did not. No, I was not there.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:21)
As usual, slightly bigger than the old X five. But they made the grill, the the kidneys, the grill kidney grills a lot smaller, just like they did with the the new IX three. and ⁓ what what do you think of the design of this new X five?

Roberto Baldwin (37:30)
Dun dun dun.

I mean it just looks like the Neuer class. You know. There you go. Big big Noya class. Ow, I just hurt my elbow.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:38)
Yeah. Bigger.

Nicole Wakelin (37:41)
Here. I just like this. I'm glad they

just don't have the giant the giant the giant girl is too much. Like really teeny now, but like they've gone the other way. Instead of making it like dominate like, let's make it really tiny. But it works. I like this better.

Roberto Baldwin (37:46)
Kidney grill. It's gonna eat children as it drives down the street.

Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:56)
Yeah.

⁓ the the interior is a lot like the the new IX three. So it's got that same ⁓ parallelogram shaped center display. ⁓ and but it's ⁓ yeah, it's also got a lot other things from the IX three like the ⁓ the software controlled vents.

So not great.

Roberto Baldwin (38:27)
⁓

Nicole Wakelin (38:29)
Mm. Gumble, grumble, grumble.

Sam Abuelsamid (38:31)
I don't know.

Roberto Baldwin (38:31)
Why?

Why?

Nicole Wakelin (38:36)
Why

must you why must you do this to us?

Sam Abuelsamid (38:40)
I know. ⁓ they've got there's they're launching with four different powertrains. So they've got an updated version of the three liter turbo six cylinder, ⁓ which is now like three hundred and ninety-five ish horsepower, I think. and there then there's ⁓ and that's a forty eight volt mild hybrid. There's a plug in hybrid version of that. ⁓ there's a full battery electric IX five.

which uses a lot of the Noya class hardware from the the IX three. ⁓ it's now five hundred and seventy horsepower. it's got a cell to pack battery. and then they're also gonna be doing ⁓ a hydrogen fuel cell version of this, which you know, maybe three people will buy.

Nicole Wakelin (39:32)
I say who no one's buying those.

Roberto Baldwin (39:33)
They always

they always BMW, ⁓ Honda, Toyota, they're always gonna have Hey guys, we got a hydrogen one. Come on And then you can buy it where I live.

Nicole Wakelin (39:41)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (39:46)
Yeah. Well, i in Germany there actually are more and and other parts of Europe there are more hydrogen fueling stations. There's a lot more fuel hydrogen stations in Europe than there are in in the US. So there's there's a few hundred available. So you could conceivably buy the hydrogen IX five in Germany and actually, you know, have it be useful to you.

Roberto Baldwin (39:53)
Korea.

Go places.

Korea's the same way, except they the the government like mandated it had to put ⁓ hydrogen stations everywhere. So you know, so they they have So, you know, Hyundai Kia, their hydrogen stuff is makes sense for them over there. Makes sense for me again if I we live here, but I would rather just have an E V I can plug into my home. I don't have to go anywhere.

Sam Abuelsamid (40:29)
So what do you think of the the new lights ⁓ on this thing the you know, on yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (40:36)
X.

Are we getting the X here? That was gonna be my first question. I was just scrolling down this. You know how sometimes lighting is different in different places? Is this US lighting or is this like non-productive?

Sam Abuelsamid (40:48)
Yes, they they

will they will have this in the US. However, apparently ⁓ there is a switch, you know, in the in the ⁓ infotainment there's a setting where you can turn that off and have it just be a slash like it is on the IX three.

Roberto Baldwin (41:06)
I mean it's cool that you can turn it off, but it's also like, Hey, you got a little X. What'd you got? X. Yeah. It looks like it's like a cartoon and it's died. You know, the little X over their eyes when a cartoon dies. Yeah, it looks a little like that. It's like, ⁓ your BMW died.

Nicole Wakelin (41:11)
I'm all about the fancy lighting. I think when they mess

Ugh. Yeah. Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:19)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Wakelin (41:24)
That was probably not what they were going for, robbing them. And then it turns attacks.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:24)
Well, maybe maybe when the when the battery runs down. It you know, you can have have those come up.

Roberto Baldwin (41:29)
There you go. It's like ⁓ little tongue little tongue sticks out.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:33)
Hm.

Roberto Baldwin (41:35)
But

no, I liked it. I'd say it's it's fine. I think everyone light signatures are sort of a big deal for a lot of these automakers at this point 'cause you gotta figure out something, especially when you're making an SUV that all look the exact same from the profile. you know, B BMW has the kidney grill, but they want to do something else. I think, you know, Rivian has the big weird oval the

Sam Abuelsamid (41:48)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (41:55)
Kia tries

to do all those zigzaggy, lightning y star map

Roberto Baldwin (42:00)
Yeah, Kia's

got like a it's like every car's a little bit different from the other one, so you never know what you're what you're doing. Yeah. So, you know, light signatures.

Nicole Wakelin (42:02)
About they all have the jaggedy kind of thing. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (42:06)
Well one one of the complaints I've heard about

the X is that it's the same as the logo for the site that used to be known as Twitter.

Roberto Baldwin (42:15)
Yeah, but that's just the Unicode X. That's not even like it's not like they paid someone to make that design. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (42:19)
Yeah, but most people don't know that. They they

see it and they just they think of, you know, Twitter.

Nicole Wakelin (42:23)
⁓ I didn't think that

Roberto Baldwin (42:23)
former Twitter.

Nicole Wakelin (42:24)
all but okay. Okay.

Roberto Baldwin (42:24)
I mean I guess sure. I if it's you know, whatever, it's still Unicode X, who cares? It's just a it's just a letter X, it's not even it's not like Twitter paid anyone to do anything. Someone just went in and put X and then they went to the fonts and they're like, this one looks cool. The end. Just

Sam Abuelsamid (42:35)
No, that's true.

⁓ so speaking of Kia, which you just mentioned, ⁓ the ⁓ the Nero is getting a refresh for Model Year twenty seven. ⁓ and they're you know, it's getting you know kind of a lightning bolt style ⁓ lighting setup on there. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's kinda kinda like the the K four. Kinda like the lights on the K four.

Nicole Wakelin (43:00)
As it should. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does. Like a baby lightning bolt 'cause a baby look car.

Roberto Baldwin (43:01)
Pew pew pew.

Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (43:11)
It is a little bit, I would agree.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:13)
Yeah. ⁓ but and they're also simplifying the the lineup. So ⁓ they're they're dropping the E V and the plug in hybrid versions of the Neuro and just keeping the hybrid. so it's gonna be available only as a hybrid for twenty twenty seven.

Nicole Wakelin (43:31)
You know, I find that's i interesting is there there was that moment where everybody was trying so hard to have everything. We're we're gonna have EVs, but then we're gonna have a plug-in hybrid, we're gonna have a hybrid, and the gas is just gonna hang around until we kick it to the curb because gas is the way of the past. And now they're all realizing like we we don't need four different powertrains for every single vehicle we have. How about we pick what works best? And I think it makes sense that they're changing it up and just doing a hybrid.

Roberto Baldwin (43:57)
Especially with the plug-in hybrids, they're they're they're they're more complex and to be honest, no one buys them. If you can look at the Bev versus P Hev like sales numbers, like EVs are like killing it and then people are like, No, but P P hevs, you know, plug in hybrids are the future and everyone's gonna get it because no one buys plug-in hybrids.

Sam Abuelsamid (44:06)
yeah. It's like one fifth of dev sales.

Nicole Wakelin (44:16)
Yeah, really

it doesn't it for a million reasons, it doesn't make sense. Like if you just want like just get a regular hybrid, you don't get or go full E V. Like make a decision. And I say that having a plug in hybrid. We got it because that was what Russ wanted. But I don't think I would buy a P Hev, probably. I would just go with a hybrid.

Roberto Baldwin (44:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Well there you go. I think some people are buying but not really. It's then you're near an automaker, like, especially now because the whole industry is contracting. I know people are like, Well, they're not selling as many EVs. I'm like, they're not selling as many as anything. So nothing's doing great, to be honest. So if you're an automaker, you gotta like look at your lineup and be like, Okay, what's not doing great? I mean the the Nero was like bumping E V was bumping up against other vehicles and they're like, Okay, let's let's let's stop ⁓ you know.

Nicole Wakelin (44:38)
There you go. Mm-hmm.

Right. Nothing is going as much as it

Roberto Baldwin (45:05)
Going at let's stop being our own worst our own worst enemy in the E V space with this. And and ⁓ let's just make this hybrid and be be done.

Sam Abuelsamid (45:16)
Yeah, sp well speaking of you know, stuff selling less, ⁓ last week, you know, it was the beginning of the month and ⁓ you know, all you know, automakers and because it was also the end of the quarter, you know, all the automakers reported their sales. And ⁓ it w when I looked at the ⁓ the Ford sales release, ⁓ clearly whoever wrote the headline for this release did not actually read the rest of the release or read the numbers.

Nicole Wakelin (45:46)
no.

Sam Abuelsamid (45:46)
'Cause

yeah, they the headline on Ford's sales June sales release says Ford Large SUVs and F series lead first half growth. Maverick Hybrid and Bronco set records. So if you scroll down in that sales release to where they actually have the sales numbers, you know, said fur remember it said first half growth in that headline. Ford's overall sales, ⁓ year to date.

⁓ well actually for the for the second quarter we're down ten point three percent. So where's the growth? And large trucks, you know, F series ⁓ was down eleven percent. It's down thirteen percent overall since the beginning of the year. ⁓ and the explor or the expedition down twenty seven percent. So how exactly are those leading growth for Ford?

Roberto Baldwin (46:39)
They're pff I can't even yeah. I was gonna try to come up with like a reason why like, well, you know, one thing was doing a you know, you're there was like I don't know. Just just write whatever. Yeah, yeah, the whole I mean if you look like they no one's no one's having a good time in the automotive industry. ⁓ if you know, you can you can sit there and say, Well, you know, this person No, no, everyone's having a bad time. Well except for you know, you know.

Nicole Wakelin (46:50)
Ha ha

Sam Abuelsamid (46:59)
Except Hyundai and Kia.

I think here girl.

Roberto Baldwin (47:05)
So honey and key are growing. Everyone else is not doing so great. Or they're you know, they're they're they're keeping it going. It's it's a hard time. You know, people don't have as much money. you know, these these big cash cow like, you know, giant trucks, ⁓ you know, people can't afford a thousand dollar a month pa you know, ⁓ thing.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:24)
Well, I think I just

saw something the average ⁓ monthly payment average monthly car payment now in the US is seven hundred and seventy seven dollars. Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (47:33)
Really? Holy

Roberto Baldwin (47:33)
Which is crazy.

Nicole Wakelin (47:36)
but Jesus, that's a lot.

Roberto Baldwin (47:36)
Like we don't pay that much. It's that's average, but which means a lot of people are paying a above that, which is ooh, ooh.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:42)
Yeah. I mean I

Nicole Wakelin (47:42)
Wow.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:45)
I think last ⁓ late like last ⁓ fall I saw that over twenty percent of monthly car payments ⁓ are over a thousand dollars a month.

Roberto Baldwin (47:57)
Over that's so much money.

Nicole Wakelin (47:59)
For a thousand dollars a month, that's a lot of money on a car. I feel like you need to buy a less expensive car. You need to buy a less expensive car. Yeah, but I think people just go, you know, that that whole you get there and you look and you think you need more car than you do. And it's so exactly. That's exactly what it is. don't do that to yourselves, people. Don't spend too much, don't don't overspend on your car.

Roberto Baldwin (48:02)
It's a it's a it's a lot of

Sam Abuelsamid (48:02)
Mm-hmm.

Good luck.

Roberto Baldwin (48:08)
I sh

People

Sam Abuelsamid (48:15)
It is they look at that F three fifty Dooley King Ranch and think, I gotta have that truck.

Roberto Baldwin (48:19)
Yeah. Gotta have it. Gotta have it.

That's

Nicole Wakelin (48:28)
I know it's really

Roberto Baldwin (48:29)
yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (48:29)
tempting, super tempting. We all do it. We all look and go, Wow, that that'd be cool. But also I need to put food on the table. So don't ⁓ don't overspend on your car. gosh, don't do it.

Roberto Baldwin (48:39)
Yeah, it's

it's I

Sam Abuelsamid (48:40)
Especially for

something that is going to be worth less, you know, in not too distant future.

Nicole Wakelin (48:44)
Exactly.

Roberto Baldwin (48:44)
Yeah, it depreciates. It's not yeah.

It's not it's not a Picasso. It's not gotta be It's not a or it's not a it's not a house. ⁓ it's it's it's yeah, it's a car. It's gonna it's gonna lose money. You gotta think about in the long term, we're like, okay, well, in five years when I'm still paying off this car. And they have th incredibly long, you know, payment plans now and it's just like ooh, every time

Nicole Wakelin (48:49)
It's not a Picasso. You may think it is, but it's not.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:51)
Or a Ferrari. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean a lot

of people are getting seven year, eight year loans for cars. Which again, that's that's that's crazy.

Roberto Baldwin (49:18)
We have a five year on our Hyundai, but I we already have a plan to pay it off quicker. 'Cause we're like, Okay, this is how much we're gonna willing to pay per month and then we're gonna pay use this, like we're we're like we gotta get, you know, because we know the longer the the leases, the more or the I'm sorry, the lease the the that is, you know, the more we're just paying in interest and blah, blah, blah. And we you know, so we just sort of buckle down and and decide, okay, this month we're gonna throw a couple of hundred dollars more at the you know, every few months we throw, you know

at least a couple of hundred dollars at the car. Just so we don't so yeah, 'cause 'cause because we didn't buy a car that has a thousand dollars there have to be a thousand dollars a month.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:53)
Yeah. You

you you you can ma you can manage to throw another hundred or two hundred bucks at it, you know, every every couple of months.

Roberto Baldwin (50:01)
Yeah, yeah. So that's that's sort of you know, save up money for a down payment, throw as much money as you can at it, try to get it off your, you know, your your

Sam Abuelsamid (50:09)
And

ideally, you know, if you can save up enough money to buy it in cash, you know, which you know, that's that's the best way. Especially because interest rates are so high now. And especially especially on used cars. I mean on on new cars you can you know, interest rates are are higher than they have been, but you know, you can still you can find, you know, loans for, you know, six or seven percent, which is still very high, but you know, on used cars I think the

Roberto Baldwin (50:14)
that's the deal. But it cars are so expensive.

sh that's crazy.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:37)
you know, average loan rates are, you know, well over ten percent, like eleven or twelve twelve, thirteen percent. You know, and a lot of people are paying a lot more than that.

Roberto Baldwin (50:44)
So much money.

I mean the only reason I can buy the slate is 'cause I have the BRZ. I can s I can sell my BRZ, I can, you know, save up money and then you get the slate. So the the actual loan of the car is like maybe five thousand dollars, maybe. So anyway, ⁓ that and that's been your ⁓ your your monthly Hey, maybe don't buy things that are so expensive that it's they're so crazy. Keep it

Sam Abuelsamid (50:49)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (50:50)
Birds.

Don't do things you can't afford. Don't do it. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:12)
or you know, if if no, I'm I was I'm not gonna say what I was about to say. no, Tesla batteries actually. apparently there's been a ring of thieves ⁓ that have been stealing trailer loads of Tesla batteries from the Tesla Panasonic battery factory in Sparks, Nevada. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (51:19)
Is it about stealing Teslas?

Sam Abuelsamid (51:41)
They have stolen nearly a dozen trailers full of battery packs, in ⁓ in recent months. so yeah, at least at least eleven times now they have stolen full trailers of batteries.

Nicole Wakelin (51:55)
Wow.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:57)
⁓ at this article on ⁓ Inside E Vs that says the thie the thefts reportedly occurred at the ⁓ Giga Factory in Sparks, Nevada. and ⁓ rather than break into the facility and load up a truck themselves, the thieves targeted the logistics side of the business and simply drove off with the batteries after social engineering their way into Tesla's secu somewhat secure shipping area.

Nicole Wakelin (52:20)
So much security. Just a little secure.

Roberto Baldwin (52:23)
That's

somewhat. Sort of. Hey, I'm here to pick up those boundaries. Alright. That's it. That's all you show up. You got a clipboard. You got a truck.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:27)
⁓ the just pull pull pull pull up

with a tractor, you know, hook up a trailer and off you go. ⁓ yeah, the first the first thefts occurred in December, ⁓ when they drove off with two two trailers full of Tesla power walls, valued at four hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

Nicole Wakelin (52:54)
That's a lot.

Roberto Baldwin (52:56)
Funny is they can like brick essentially. ⁓ to keep them from turning on. It's like iPhones, like you can you know, whenever you see an iPhone for sale, like, hey, used iPhone, ⁓ maybe it works. You're like, don't buy that. Because if someone's accounts on it and that person isn't available, you just bought yourself a nice brick. It's a flashlight that you can walk around your house with. That's the same thing with the there's sort of, you know, unless they're taking them apart and they're re you know, using them for resto mods, I guess, throwing the batteries in a resto mod.

Nicole Wakelin (53:14)
And

Sam Abuelsamid (53:26)
Never know.

Roberto Baldwin (53:27)
Seems like a lot of work. And some ⁓ yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:29)
Yeah.

But the you know, yeah, because ⁓ you know, these are all you know, remote controlled, Wi Fi controlled, ⁓ and you know, they can when you hook when you hook up, you know, they you connect it to your Wi Fi and then you know, it can go out to ⁓ to Tesla's servers and get firmware updates and stuff. So if they n if they know it's been stolen, you know, just like just like an iPhone or or a lot of other phones now, ⁓ you know, it they can

Roberto Baldwin (53:35)
Networked.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:58)
the you know, they'll check the serial number and say, this was one of the stolen battery packs and they'll just shut it down.

Roberto Baldwin (54:04)
So much work for buy for stealing and do some homework if you're gonna be a thief. Come on. Come on.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:09)
Well,

Nicole Wakelin (54:11)
You so

Sam Abuelsamid (54:11)
I mean,

as as we know, most thieves not that smart.

Roberto Baldwin (54:15)
Yeah, yeah. Like we're gonna get these power walls and then we'll have you know unless again, unless they have like a whole system where they're using they're taking these apart and they're taking the battery modules out and they're putting them in other things. You're just yeah, you're just y yeah. I don't know what your sh good god. Why?

Sam Abuelsamid (54:35)
⁓ so Jalobnik had ⁓ one of their listicles the other day, you know, where they get ⁓ they put out a question to readers and ⁓ you know, get the get the results and and publish that as a listicle. And this one was readers coming up with honest autocompany slogans.

Nicole Wakelin (54:53)
This was funny. I s I laughed reading through these. Some of them are so painfully accurate.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:56)
So

Roberto Baldwin (55:00)
It's pretty

Sam Abuelsamid (55:00)
So the

Roberto Baldwin (55:01)
yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:01)
f the first one was for Dodge. Forget the alimony payment. You need a Hemi.

Every law is only a suggestion.

Roberto Baldwin (55:09)
Oof. ⁓

dodge.

Nicole Wakelin (55:13)
Ford one I liked with Ford slogan recalled.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:16)
⁓ well there was

also the one we love our cars so much we call them back every day. Quality is a job, just not ours.

Roberto Baldwin (55:22)
Aw, you miss him.

Nicole Wakelin (55:22)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (55:27)
Just not ours. ⁓ poor

Ford. So many recalls.

Nicole Wakelin (55:30)
Forward.

There's been a lot of recalls.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:33)
And Jaguar, we do hope you enjoy your lunar.

Nicole Wakelin (55:38)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:41)
Mazda when you when you want to show you know cars better than your neighbor, but you can't afford a Porsche.

Roberto Baldwin (55:47)
Yeah, that's pretty that's pretty yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:51)
Kia, you can always trade up later. I I think that one's a a little unfair to Kia these days.

Nicole Wakelin (55:56)
It's little

harsh 'cause I actually like yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (55:57)
Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like I feel like that's like ten year old. Ten Kia from ten years ago.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:01)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (56:02)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:03)
⁓ Nissan, we accept combined credit scores.

Roberto Baldwin (56:07)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:12)
⁓ and then for the Nissan Ultima, infotainment comes pre programmed with GPS located bail bondsman near you.

Roberto Baldwin (56:20)
Is the ultimate like a s thief car? I d that one that one sort of went over my head.

Nicole Wakelin (56:20)
I also like

Sam Abuelsamid (56:24)
Could be.

I don't know.

Nicole Wakelin (56:25)
I like the the poor little Mitsubishi, which is also the last one on this list. Mitsubishi, we're still here and we're just as surprised as you are. This is painful.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:34)
The ⁓

the Stellantis one is pretty good. We've tried nothing and we're still out of ideas.

Nicole Wakelin (56:41)
Ouch.

Roberto Baldwin (56:42)
Oof. Yeah.

Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:47)
So you can you can check the ⁓ the show notes for the the link and and read all yourself. Although ⁓ the the slate one, this is a truck for things.

Nicole Wakelin (56:57)
Ha ha

Roberto Baldwin (56:59)
Check out a slate.auto for accessory words to customize your slogan. That's it. It is a slate. This is a truck for things. What are you gonna do? Things.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:03)
Huh.

Nicole Wakelin (57:09)
Stuff. I'm gonna do stuff. I don't know what stuff I'm gonna do, but I'm gonna do stuff. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (57:11)
Gonna do things and stuff.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:15)
⁓ all right, ⁓ California, ⁓ after the ⁓ the federal tax incentives were killed last year, California promised to bring back their own state incentives and ⁓ they're apparently close to finalizing a bill ⁓ that would do that. ⁓ and this one ⁓ it would be let's see, that it's gonna be ⁓ point of sale rebate, like the federal incentives were. ⁓

and it would provide up to thirty five hundred dollars for first time E V buyers. So if you already own an E V, you're out of luck. But if

Roberto Baldwin (57:52)
Well you know the

Nicole Wakelin (57:52)
How flat.

Roberto Baldwin (57:53)
our EVs have all been in my wife's name. Bom bum bum. I don't know how that works with we're married though.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:56)
⁓ there you go.

Nicole Wakelin (57:58)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:01)
Yeah, it's worth a shot.

Roberto Baldwin (58:03)
Yeah, I'm not I'm not yeah, I'm not on 'cause the I know. I'm s it's getting cheaper and cheaper every day.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:04)
Maybe you can get thirty five hundred bucks off the slate.

Yeah. and ⁓ and then for there's also credit for used cars, used EVs, ⁓ which I think I think it was seventeen fifty for used EVs. ⁓ I can't I can't see it here now. But yeah. and there's also a price cap. So for the the new E Vs they have to have a sticker price less than fifty thousand dollars.

Nicole Wakelin (58:10)
Ha ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (58:29)
They don't have a number yet.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:39)
And the used ones can't be over twenty five thousand dollars. So yeah, no, I think I think those are those are reasonable criteria.

Roberto Baldwin (58:43)
That makes sense.

If you're buying a a f luxury EV, you're doing fine. You don't

Sam Abuelsamid (58:50)
Yeah,

you don't you don't need a tax break for that. If you're if you're if you're buying a lucid or you know a Rivian R one, yeah, you don't need a tax break.

Nicole Wakelin (58:52)
You don't need that, yeah. Exactly.

Roberto Baldwin (59:00)
You're doing just fine, buddy.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:02)
Yeah. ⁓ let's see and what else we got here. ⁓ also, ⁓ you know, if you don't live in California and you want to get a deal on an EV, ⁓ Polestar's having a closeout sale. They've got the big yellow and black signs on the stores now. You know, everything must go. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (59:18)
Woo everything must go H ⁓

spirit Halloween coming soon

Sam Abuelsamid (59:24)
Yeah. Tw tw twenty five thousand dollars off on the Polestar three and the Polestar Four. ⁓ so you know

Nicole Wakelin (59:25)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (59:31)
I like the Polestar

too though. Hmm. well.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:34)
⁓ yeah, I don't

know I don't know f how many they of those they have left. 'cause they I think they stopped importing those last year. So they they may be all gone. ⁓ so the you know, the remaining threes and fours you can get twenty five grand off. ⁓ and ⁓ yeah, they as we talked about last week, they've promised to keep supporting those for the foreseeable future.

Roberto Baldwin (59:38)
Probably none.

Mm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:00)
⁓ and my guess is that, you know, if and when, you know, the Polestar stores, you know, do finally end up closing up shop, they will probably offer support through Volvo dealers.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:10)
Yeah, they're just fancy Volvos. I mean that's that's and they're still making the cars. The company's still in business. They're not it's not you you're not going a f it's not going the route of Fisker. There's all the stuff is gonna be there, just not here.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:13)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:19)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's not it's yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:19)
Just not here. Yeah. Right.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:24)
They'll they'll still they'll still be getting able to get parts because they're still making the Polestar three and four. They're just not gonna sell in this country. So ⁓ the ⁓ Ferrari hasn't sold a car with a manual transmission in quite a few years. ⁓ but they they just announced ⁓ possibly as

Nicole Wakelin (1:00:31)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:45)
you know, to try and pacify their customers, you know, after the ⁓ the love in for the luche. ⁓ that ⁓ they're gonna offer a quote unquote manual in the twelve cylindry, ⁓ which is their their V twelve powered G T. ⁓ it's sort of a manual. It's got a gated shifter. So the the twelve cylindry has an eight speed dual clutch transmission. ⁓ and they're putting a gated shifter in this thing.

And a clutch pedal. So it's not even it's not even like, you know, the Hyundai Ionic five N, you know, where it simulates the shifts, you know, you do it with the paddles. There's no paddles in this thing. There's no shift paddles at all. There's just the the shifter down where it belongs. ⁓ and the clutch pedal is not actually connected, mechanically connected to the clutch. It's ⁓ it's just a switch. So when you press the clutch pedal down and you move the gated shifter, then it is then controlling the

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:17)
Got a clutch.

Nicole Wakelin (1:01:18)
Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:44)
dual clutch transmission. and apparently you can even stall this thing. You know, if you if you let off the if you don't give it enough revs and you let off the clutch too fast, it'll stall. ⁓ so, you know, they're trying to make it as authentic feeling as possible.

Nicole Wakelin (1:02:01)
Okay.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:02)
without putting

an actual transmission in an actual manual transmission in. Which people would just melt. It's absolutely melt. The thing is, if you have enough money to buy a car like this, typically you're not a very good driver.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:05)
Yeah.

Yeah. Probably.

Nicole Wakelin (1:02:11)
It was just yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:17)
Yeah. Yeah. And you probably have no idea how to use an actual manual transmission.

Nicole Wakelin (1:02:18)
Ha ha ha. ⁓

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:20)
I've

I've passed ⁓ Ferraris going to like owners events in ⁓ it w I used to pass them on the back roads in Tatchy and my 90 Honda Civic with 86 horsepower. I've been stuck behind, you know, 911 GT3s and a BMW I seven on Angelus Crest Highway. The I seven, the boat. And I'm just like, what are you doing? What what's happening? Take if you if you are rich and you buy a fancy car.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:35)
Ha ha ha.

Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:52)
I want you to go to the track. I don't want you to take a class. I don't want you the person to teach you how to drive your fancy car. Cause we recently had someone die in a fancy car because they just didn't know what they were doing, unfortunately. So be th be self aware is all I'm saying.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:08)
Yeah. Find find find your you know, your nearest racetrack 'cause you know, most racetracks have driving schools. ⁓ you know, or you know, I mean well if you can afford something, you know, like a Ferrari twelve cylinder, you know, go to Phoenix and go to the Radford School or go to Skip Barber or, you know, some good driving school, you know, where they will teach you how to operate these things.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:28)
Something.

And then if it's n if it's a nearby track, you can like sign up, you can do autocross events, you can do all the fun events where you actually get to drive your car the way it's supposed to be driven versus sitting on the four five.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:42)
Yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:03:42)
And

the track stuff where they teach you how to drive it at the classes when you sign up at like local places where they have instructors and things that come around, they're really good. Like you will learn a lot. You will think you're good and then they'll teach you things. And if you do it more than once, and why the heck not if you've got that kind of car or you're buy about to buy one, and they will really teach you what you need to know to not wrap yourself around a tree.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And they'll

teach you how to have fun in your car driving slow, which is what you're gonna be doing all the time anyway on regular roads. They will teach you how to turn how to do how to how to enter and exit corners correctly. All the little things that you end up like, I'm driving like twenty miles an hour on this back road, but I can still practice and still do these things that make driving fun.

Nicole Wakelin (1:04:09)
Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Exactly.

There we go. Don't spend too much on a car, and if you can't afford it, and make sure you know how to drive it.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:29)
All right.

Roberto Baldwin (1:04:34)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:34)
Yes. ⁓

all right, and the last item on the list today ⁓ is ⁓ Toyota is moving the Tacoma back to Texas. So they used to build the Tacoma at their San Antonio assembly plant where they also built the tundra and sequoia. And ⁓ since twenty twenty two they moved all the production to a plant in Mexico. So they have not built ⁓ Tacoma in the US for several years now.

But they announced yesterday that ⁓ they're gonna be investing three point six billion dollars in their San Antonio plant to expand it and add a new assembly line, to build the Tacoma there. ⁓ and ⁓ should be up and running by twenty thirty, ⁓ adding two thousand jobs there. ⁓ so you know, it it it kinda makes sense for them to do that. ⁓ you know, 'cause you know, the Tacoma is not a cheap vehicle anyway.

And n who's looking it up, ninety one percent of Tacoma sales are in the United States. Because basically, you know, they sell some in Canada, they sell a few and they sell about ten thousand a year in Mexico, but two hundred and seventy seven thousand Tacomas sold in the US last year out of about three hundred thousand total. And yeah, no a lot of them.

Roberto Baldwin (1:05:55)
Half of those in Hawaii. No, I'm just kidding. That's but it's a lot. It's a lot if

you've ever been to Hawaii you'd be like, my gosh. Is To is Toyota sponsoring these islands?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:01)
Yeah. The t the Tacoma the

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:06)
the Taco it's funny, when when we went to Hawaii a couple of years ago when they ⁓ did the Grand Highlander drive and they did the reveal of the current gen Tacoma, you know, one of the things they talked about was that the Tacoma has been the best selling vehicle in Hawaii for like twenty five years. Yeah. It's like the rest of the country it's the F one fifty. In Hawaii it's the Tacoma.

Nicole Wakelin (1:06:12)
huh.

Roberto Baldwin (1:06:22)
It's yeah. No. It it

No, it's all Tacoma all the time. And then a lot of are lifted. And if you driven all around Hawaii once you go off to like if you've been there a bunch of times and you start sort of exploring more, you realize like, ⁓ yeah, this is why. Because there are some crazy roads that it's like, hey, you know, you and ⁓ family's big you know, it's a big deal in Hawaii. Everyone's like, Hey, let's go to this place where the tourists aren't and have a nice like picnic or, you know, go surfing or whatever. And those roads are typically insane.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:06:53)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:06:53)
And

so you need a tac you need a raise Tacoma. These are the people who are actually raising their trucks and doing the things that you're supposed to be raising your trucks do with your raised trucks.

Nicole Wakelin (1:07:02)
Yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:04)
So yeah, the and you know, it's funny, I I was looking up the the data yesterday or today on the on the Tacoma ⁓ sales and like I said, you know, they sold about ten thousand last year in Mexico where they build them. Out of the three hundred thousand they built, ten thousand were sold in Mexico. ⁓ the Hilux is the one that actually sells much more in Mexico. And you can't get the Hilux here, but they sold about twenty thousand Hiluxes in Mexico last year.

So it's much more popular than Tacoma. Probably 'cause it's a lot less expensive.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:37)
Yeah, yeah, it's not very expensive. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:41)
⁓ all right, so that is all the the stories we've got for this week. ⁓ this morning I did ⁓ an interview with Christopher Myvald, who is the founder and CEO of Lectron. and I don't know, have either of you two ever used Lectron chargers?

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:59)
Probably without our knowledge. It's like Charge Point, like people don't realize ChargePoint is like like like partnered with like Mercedes and all these other police places and then Electron is like works with Charge Point. It's like yeah.

Nicole Wakelin (1:08:00)
Exactly. Unbeknownst to me, yes.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:01)
Mm-hmm.

Well they

No, well

Well, Electron doesn't build level three chargers. They don't build DC chargers. They only they build level one and level two chargers for for home and and and some commercial use as well for the level twos. ⁓ but they also build a lot of the adapters and you one of the things he was saying is that right now about one in five ⁓ EV owners in North America have ⁓ have used electron equipment. If it's not one of their chargers

It's probably one of their adapters because they supply the adapters that are provided by Ford, General Motors, Honda, and several other OEMs. ⁓ so you know, they do NAX to C C S adapters, they do C C S to NAX adapters, they do NAX to J seventeen seventy two adapters and J seventeen seventy two to NAX adapters. ⁓ so they they make a lot of those adapters. So I I had a chat with with him this morning about what they're doing.

⁓ and so we'll run that right after we say goodbye. So stick around, listen to that, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye.

Nicole Wakelin (1:09:19)
Bye.

Roberto Baldwin (1:09:20)
Bye.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:36)
Alright, so I am talking today with Christopher Maiwald who is the founder and CEO of Lectron. which if you have an EV, there's a decent chance you've probably heard of this company, especially if you have a charger at home. ⁓ and so Christopher, welcome to wheel bearings. ⁓ let's start off with ⁓ just some background on yourself and Lectron and

How you got into the charging business, the E V charging business?

Christopher Maiwald (1:10:08)
Sure, yeah. So Lectron is a brand started in ⁓ in twenty seventeen. ⁓ we started out in the automotive aftermarket, ⁓ first on Amazon, ⁓ then on ⁓ various ⁓ retailers, Home Depot, Lowe's, AutoZone, Best Buy.

continued serving customers through the aftermarket. And ⁓ in the process of this building more and more technical competence on the design and engineering. And ⁓ in the past couple of years, we've also become a supplier to some of the world's leading OEMs. And ⁓ you know, across our aftermarket and our OEM business, we ran the number, and we think that one in five EV owners in North America has at least one Electron product, which makes us very proud.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:57)
Yeah, I mean when I ⁓ when I first installed I I get as part of my job I get to drive a lot of and evaluate a lot of different plug in vehicles, EVs and plug in hybrids. And so several years ago I installed ⁓ an outlet in my garage for level two charging. ⁓ and the first charger that I bought was actually Electron charging cable that I bought from Amazon. ⁓ and so I've been using Electron for a number of years and and Electron was also one of the first companies to

introduce a an aftermarket ⁓ NAX to CCS charging adapter when the industry started making that transition a couple of years ago. And so you s you supply quite a few OEMs with a version of your ⁓ adapters, is that correct?

Christopher Maiwald (1:11:44)
That's right, yeah.

So ⁓ we have a lot of OEM ⁓ the the Vortex Plus that you refer to is a is a popular product, the Eurobuddha aftermarket. And also a lot of our OEM customers, ⁓ Ford, Mercedes, BMW and others, ⁓ VW group are using a variation of our next to CCS adapter. ⁓ but the underlying technology between industry-leading adapters and industry-leading chargers are the same, right? So it's best in class.

PCBA, electrical design, mechanical design, ⁓ and obviously validating those for automotive requirements.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:21)
So ⁓ recently ⁓ Lectron reached out to me ⁓ to see if I wanted to evaluate your latest charging product. ⁓ and this is a level two charger called the Nexus. you've been doing level two home chargers for a number of years now. can you tell us a bit about the the Nexus charger and w how it varies from your previous products? What's what's new, what's different about this charger?

Christopher Maiwald (1:12:48)
Yeah. So the ⁓ the Nexus charging station is a jump in quality. ⁓ a ton of the learnings that we've made with our customers from ⁓ the various OEM launches ⁓ are now integrated in this generation of charging stations.

the product has been designed following proper automotive processes, design failure mode analysis, process failure mode analysis. and ⁓ all the validation learnings and quality learnings and process learnings from our all of our OEM learnings have been packed into this. And it's an OEM great charging stations and aftermarket value. And we're very, very excited to bring this to customers. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:31)
So w okay, go ahead.

Christopher Maiwald (1:13:34)
Yeah, in in terms of ⁓ what the product will come with, it will launch as a ⁓ 40 amp or 48 amp version, either hardwired or with a NEMA 1450, with a J1772 or an X coupler. ⁓ and in particular on the NACS coupler side of things, ⁓ there's again a ton of the learnings that we've we've brought in from the adapter ⁓ business. So adapters are governed by a standard called UL2252.

This standard is the latest and greatest of what EV charging has to offer. Extremely stringent drop test, ⁓ super precise, ⁓ silver nickel terminal coating. ⁓ so really advanced stuff that actually exceeds some of the requirements of UR two to five one that previously governed the adapters, ⁓ governed couplers. And ⁓ we're putting all of this together ⁓ and are building our own.

couplas as well for the charging station and bringing this to customers.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:38)
So ⁓ what what are some of the you know, you mentioned the you know things like a drop test, you know, which obviously, you know, is an important one for something like a a charging connector, you know, if you drop the cable on the floor when you're unplugging it or whatever, you know, you don't want it to to crack open, but what are some of the other biggest challenges for ⁓ for chargers that you have to deal with, I guess primarily from a safety perspective is w obviously but also reliability.

Christopher Maiwald (1:15:06)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, look from a ⁓ there's a ton of stuff. So it's not only ⁓ one single thing. ⁓ it's compliance with ⁓ UR2251, ⁓ compliance with ⁓ two two three one, two five nine four. ⁓ so URL compliance is is key there. another thing to look out for are ⁓ temperature rises. So there are temp sensors both in the outlet as well as on the PCBA.

and also in the coupler. So temperature rises through ⁓ inadequately installed outlets or you know some kind of failure get triggered and to ensure that the unit starts off safely and doesn't endanger customers. So that's one of the things that's really important on the on the safety side of things. On the engineering side of things it's ⁓ hundred little things. ⁓ you know we mentioned drop test on the coupler that's really important.

The IP rating is also key. A lot of the failure modes from charging stations, especially when they're installed outside, are water ingress. ⁓ you know, it rains, it rains for a couple of weeks, at different temperatures. So the plastic compresses and expands. And at all at all of these times you need to be

You need to prevent water from getting into the wallbox and hurting the PCBA. So the charger itself is IP sixty-six rated. The PCBA in the charger ⁓ has confirmal coating on top of it to ensure that even a little bit of ⁓ moisture that gets on the won't actually hurt the electronics. So, you know, there's a a a ton of little details that make this a best-in-class product.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:56)
So ⁓ what yeah, with the with having two different versions of it, one with the C C or with a seventeen seventy two connector, the other with the J thirty four hundred or NAX connector on there, are there any apart from the cable itself and the and the coupler, are there any other differences between those two those two versions of the charger?

Christopher Maiwald (1:17:19)
No. So the underlying electronics are the same. ⁓ the safety certificates are the same. a a version that will come out in a couple of weeks that we would also love to send you is the Nexus Pro version that also has an app, ⁓ load balancing, a solar loading feature and others. ⁓ but I the ulti the the underlying platform will remain the same.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:43)
Okay. ⁓ and ⁓ you know, you you mentioned, you know, that you started off selling on Amazon, you sell through a number of retailers now. Is the the Nexus charger going to be available across all those different retailers as well?

Christopher Maiwald (1:17:58)
That's right. So at the moment it's already available on Amazon and the website. And in the next couple of weeks it's also going to roll out on ⁓ Best Buy, Home Depot, AutoZone and other key retailers.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:11)
One of the things I noticed ⁓ when I unboxed the the Nexus charger is you know the the one that was sent to me was with the the Nex connector on there. ⁓ and compared to the previous chargers that I've used, the the charging cable itself ⁓ is quite a bit skinnier ⁓ than the the previous chargers that that I've used. ⁓ how how were you able to ⁓ make that ⁓ cable

Christopher Maiwald (1:18:28)
Mm-hmm. ⁓

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:41)
slimmer and does the jet does the seventeen seventy two version also have that slimmer cable on it?

Christopher Maiwald (1:18:47)
Yeah. The question around cable slimness, I would need to ask one of our ⁓ our chief technology officer ⁓ to get we'll we'll provide you a feedback on this in writing. I think this is a little bit too technical for me. ⁓ but yes, the cable is thinner, and the cable is thinner despite having an additional ⁓ temp sensor in the cable.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:18:58)
Okay.

Christopher Maiwald (1:19:09)
So this runs from the coupler all the way to the PCBA so it's slimmer and has additional safety features.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:16)
And then you know, one of the other challenges around EV charging ⁓ for for many years now has been you know from from for the safe from the safety perspective, you know, there's a a s there's a communication component between the charger and the vehicle. You know, when you with a combustion engine, you put the fuel not the fuel filler nozzle into the the the into the pipe in the car and the gas just flows or diesel just flows.

Christopher Maiwald (1:19:41)
Mm-hmm.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:42)
There's no there's no real communication between the the vehicle and the and a fuel pump. But with a an E V charger and ⁓ and the in an EV, there is communication because the the E V has to and the charger have to negotiate, you know, okay, how much charge can I accept? what is the state of charge, knowing when to turn it off, when to start it, these sorts of things. ⁓ d is is the software that ⁓ that Electron uses, is that all developed in house by by

electron as well or is that done? Do you h work with third parties to do that? And and how do you how do you handle the testing with different brands of vehicles?

Christopher Maiwald (1:20:19)
Yeah. So a lot of the charging standards are ⁓ so the the the the firmware, the logic, all of this stuff is in developed in house. the charging protocols are largely open source, so there is no difference between communicating with a with a GM or a a Ford vehicle. ⁓ we do conduct interoperability testing.

But ⁓ you know, the whole point of standardisation of, you know, ⁓ G thirty four hundred or J one seven seven two is that the charging protocols across vehicle platforms are the same.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:20:54)
Okay. And I think ⁓ there was a video that you wanted to show us as well. Did you still yeah.

Christopher Maiwald (1:20:58)
Sure. Yeah.

So one part of this is that it's really important to ⁓ the design failure mode analysis. A ton of work goes into how to design the product, how to anticipate certain failures during usage and take make design decisions to prevent this. ⁓ the second step is ⁓ process failure mode analysis, right? During production, what can go wrong? ⁓ what process mistakes can happen, ⁓ how do you prevent those? And how do you ⁓ you know

⁓ create a manufacturing process that is standardized, repeatable, and doesn't have any deviations. And the last step of that is obviously quality control and offline testing to ensure that every unit that does ship and is assembled is of the highest quality. And ⁓ I'd like to say everything is easy unless you don't do it well. and ⁓ the same applies for charging technology, right? So it's it's relatively easy to build a mediocre, unsafe or you know

Not outstanding charger. But doing anything in the top one percent of the belt curve is hard. And we've brought a little video to show the detailed assembly of the product and how much thought and effort and process control gives into it.

so the PCBAs of the charger are made on the same campus where the charging stations also get assembled. So the SMT line is there.

It's probably a bit long.

So the heart of the charger are the is the PCBA, right? So the the electronic, the logic ⁓ that flows ⁓ through the machine. ⁓

Once the PCBAs are made, they get shipped to the final production assembly line, just a couple of minutes from the SMT line.

Right. Then here you can see how they get first assembled in the box in the wall box. So this is the outside of the wall box. Another thing you can see here is the little honeycomb design, right? In order to prevent ⁓ in order to give it structural integrity of the charging station ⁓ and fast drop test. ⁓ it's made of a very special material and honeycomb designed in order to ensure that it doesn't break.

All the screwdrivers are fully torqued.

And then the cable assembly gets checked by a camera that ensures that the cable assembly is correct. It gets put into a manufacturing execution system that then links the serial numbers of the charger with that.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:48)
So you can track track all the ⁓

the production as you go along? Yeah, so so you can track ⁓ each unit as it goes through the production process and if there's if anything comes up in your testing later you can you can trace back to the source of where this you know, w in the production system where where the problem occurred. Okay.

Christopher Maiwald (1:24:53)
Sorry.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. So

each unit has a serial number, each component is linked to a serial number, and there's also batch traceability. So this allows us to to find failures ⁓ fast.

Then the ⁓ assembly line works on semi automated trails. So there's a ⁓ once the once the operator installs the product, it moves through the ⁓ through the production line ⁓ and goes through various end of line tests ⁓ on the on the trail.

This is when the top of the wall box gets closed, again with fully talked screwdriver so you don't overscrew. And this part of the test, this is the IP rating test. So this gets put into a precision engineered part, and then air pressure gets applied. And depending on how much pressure leaves the gas kit, you can tell just whether or not it's IP rated.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:26:55)
You're essentially d doing leak testing on every device before it goes out.

Christopher Maiwald (1:26:58)
That's right.

That's right. And then at the very end, the product also gets put into an aging chamber where it gets aged at ⁓ fifty degrees Celsius for four hours.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:13)
What does that ⁓ what what does that do?

Christopher Maiwald (1:27:17)
It ensures that the product is ⁓ operational and works at peak temperatures. 'cause the highest the highest failure rate of ⁓ a lot of products is that it's dead on arrival. so our products cannot be dead on arrival because they've been aged.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:39)
And is there anything else ⁓ that you wanna share about the the Nexus Charger or anything else that that Lectron's doing that that listeners might be interested in, before I let you g before we ⁓ finish up this part of the conversation.

Christopher Maiwald (1:27:56)
Yeah, no, I think we're ⁓ extremely excited about what we've built. ⁓ thanks for making time to let us explain this, right? So a ton of thought and effort goes into this, ⁓ into the product design. And you know we're we're grateful for journalists that take the time to understand the technical intricacies there and help educate customers what what safe and ⁓ and sound charging solutions are. So thank you, Sam.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:28:24)
Yeah, I I just thought there is one other question I had, ⁓ which is related to bidirectional charging. It's an area that's growing. A lot of ⁓ autom automakers are increasingly making their their vehicles bi directional capable. ⁓ is that something that is in your product pipeline for the future is to have chargers that can support bidirectional capability to allow vehicle to load or vehicle to home ⁓ or vehicle to grid capability?

Christopher Maiwald (1:28:53)
So we have ⁓ we are building vehicle to load adapters for various automakers. there will also go there are also going to be more vehicle to load adapters in the automotive aftermarket ⁓ coming soon. On the bidirectional ⁓ charging station side, so we're working on a vehicle to home AC bi die charging system.

⁓ but this is obviously ⁓ related to the

ch onboard charger architecture of the of the vehicles of our OEM customers as well. So we're working closely with them to ensure that our ⁓ charging bindike charging system aligns with their OBC ⁓ system infrastructure. ⁓ we hope that something is going to come out in the near future. ⁓ let's see.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:29:50)
All right. Well thank you so much, ⁓ and ⁓ hopefully we'll talk to you again soon and I'm gonna hit stop right now.