Sam Abuelsamid (00:00)
This is episode four hundred and sixty nine of wheel bearings. I am SAm Abuelsamid

from Telemetry.

Roberto Baldwin (00:07)
And I'm Roberto Baldwin from SAE International and I'm a child.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:12)
Well, you know, if you can't if you can't act like a child once in a while, w what what's the point?

Roberto Baldwin (00:16)
No, it's is all the time, to be honest.

This is this I live like a like a seventeen year old.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:23)
Could be worse.

Roberto Baldwin (00:25)
I l I yeah, I don't have kids. I don't yeah. I live like I'm still in college. I'm just like Just bumbling

Sam Abuelsamid (00:30)
Yeah. But I mean you have you

Roberto Baldwin (00:32)
through life like an idiot.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:33)
you you have animals and you know, you have a wife and they're all surviving. So, you know, can't be all bad.

Roberto Baldwin (00:37)
Yeah. Yeah, but my wife is also like a cot

we're we're both art school people, so

Sam Abuelsamid (00:42)
Yeah, there you go.

Roberto Baldwin (00:45)
there's the there's the rub. it's all art school stuff all the time.

Sam Abuelsamid (00:52)
all right. Well, what have you been driving this week?

Roberto Baldwin (00:55)
So this week I drove the Honda Prelude. The the the car that angered the internet.

Sam Abuelsamid (01:01)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (01:03)
So I remember the it Honda announces it, they tell you what it is, everyone loses their minds. They look at the specs, they're like, Why isn't this, you know, a BRZ? Why is well first of all the prelude was never that. It was always

Sam Abuelsamid (01:15)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (01:16)
sporty. It was never a sports car. So there's that. having driven it, this is a v okay, so I have my B R Z.

Now, the to me the prelude is like a grown-ups BRZ. It's it's more comfortable. It gets incredibly, you know, it's incredibly efficient. I was getting like forty two, forty-three miles per gallon driving around in the in a prelude. I drove it to Monterey and back and went to the IndyCar race this this past weekend. and it it was I was I my back didn't hurt.

Like I I had a nice it was nice the drive. Like that Hummer, that Hummer after like forty five minutes. I was just like, my back. No problems in the prelude. Just just the it was a nice experience. You put in GT mode, you put in comfort mode, nice you know, cruising down the freeway, getting really great gas mileage, drove all the way to Monterey and back, drove it around before I had to get gas. Just a really nice, like drive like just regular day to day driving experience.

So then today, yesterday I wasn't feeling well. So I didn't get to take it up into the mountains to do all twisties. But I got to do that today, bef right before this podcast. And that sus that that sh that that type R, you know, they just they just threw the type R like suspension and tuning and chassis and all that fun stuff. Just they just threw it on the prelude. And it's fantastic.

Sam Abuelsamid (02:46)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (02:47)
It does it corners so well. It's still front wheel drive, you still feel the pull instead of the push.

But even

Sam Abuelsamid (02:53)
But you can also trail break it into corners.

Roberto Baldwin (02:56)
Yes. And so but it is very it's th I I wizardry, magic, sacrif I don't know what they did at Honda and and I remember with the the type R like eight years ago or whatever, when the type R came out, they're like, Yeah, we virtually eliminated eliminated oversteer. I'm like, pfft yeah, whatever. And then I got that car and I tried to oversteer it so much, like he really had to do

Some crazy stuff to get that thing to oversteer. it's the same thing with this. Like things where I thought I was gonna hit like hit notice some oversteer. Nope. It's just it's it's it is such a well engineered vehicle. It is such a grown up like enthusiast car. So this is the car. Now it's not a it's it's not a Miata. It's not Rule Drive. It's not a BRZ or a GR you know, it's not a it's not any of those cars. It's not an S two thousand. It's none of that.

It's front wheel drive. It does not have a manual transmission. That's the biggest hit to this vehicle. Is the fact that it does not have a manual transmission and Honda makes an amazing manual transmission. That's the that's the worst part. If it didn't have a manual transmission and that like the automaker was just bad at making manual transmission, you'd like, well, it doesn't have it. It'd be nice, but whatever. Honda makes an amazing manual transmission and it's not in this car. Instead, they have this S Plus, which is like Sport Plus, Super Plus. I don't know what it stands for.

but you use the paddle shifters and it recreates the driving a manual transmission, sort of. Like he it you can hear at the end just Yeah,

Sam Abuelsamid (04:29)
It's it's kind it's kind of like what Hyundai does on the Ionic five N.

Roberto Baldwin (04:32)
it's like it's it's a it's a it's a hybrid version of the Ionic five N. It's very fun. It's a lot more fun than just dri I I took it I drove it up, used the S Plus it I took it out of it, did it. It was more fun with the fake, you know, sort of shifting bits.

It's got two hybrid motors, it's got a gas it's it is a an engineering marvel. It is very comfortable, but it is what enthusiasts graduate to, I think, when you just when your your spine and your kidneys and your body you just can't like just fall into a car anymore. You can't you can't handle the just the the constant you know you ha you have to, you know, you need a car.

Maybe it's your second car, but it's the car you drive every day. Then you have to go to work and you gotta sit in traffic and your left knee's sorta starting to give you some problems and maybe your ankle's

Sam Abuelsamid (05:29)
Ha ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (05:31)
sort of like tired of dealing with the clutch. And you're just like, every clam plum clam plum clam blah blah blah blah. It's it's it is you're like, you know what? maybe I should sell the BRZ and get a prelude. Maybe I should sell the Miata and get a prelude. Maybe I should it's

And I don't want to say this is the people who give up. I think this is the people who are just like, okay, here's the reality of the situation.

Sam Abuelsamid (05:53)
Ha ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (05:55)
My the way I drive this vehicle or how I drive this vehicle is not that of a 20 year old enthusiast. I drive this as an adult and I just need to get around, but I still want a really fun car to drive. It's very fun when you can get you know, you can still take it on the back roads. It's still, you know, it's you can toss it around.

I was I was very impressed with how well it handled. It is not a fast car. I think it does 0 to 60 and 6 something. It's slower than the BRZ.

Sam Abuelsamid (06:21)
It's it's quick enough.

Roberto Baldwin (06:22)
It's quick enough. It's a it's a it's a what do you call it? A momentum car. Like you just

Sam Abuelsamid (06:26)
Yes.

Roberto Baldwin (06:26)
keep yeah, you just keep moving. And again, my only issue with it is it doesn't have a clutch. You know, it doesn't have that third, it doesn't have that third pedal, but and and that is because Honda makes an amazing transmission that they're slowly taking out of cars.

because people do not buy manual transmissions. So this is a very they know they're not going to sell a lot of these. I don't know if the decision to not put a manual transition was a good idea or not. I think it there was probably some complexities when it came to the hybrid system, blah, blah, blah. There's all these things you can you can sit there and justify for not having it in there. I've always said that every prelude is a good prelude.

Like a first gener yeah, every generation prelude has had is like what it's good at or what or it's f it's a fun car. It's it's never been, you know, it's never been the Supra. It's never been, you know, the Miata, like I said. It's never been a sports car. It's it's not you know, they had the S two thousand. We had that for a while, now it's gone. Let's all c keep crying about that. But it's like a it's like a type R for like it's an adult type R. There we go. That's what I think it is. It's it's an adult type R.

Or you know, you're you're graduating up or you just don't wanna drive a manual transmission, which I I understand. Some people just they A they don't know how, which I

Sam Abuelsamid (07:47)
Yeah, I mean I yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (07:49)
understand. If your parents never taught you how d manual transmission and they've been giving you guff about it, you know, that's their fault to be honest.

Sam Abuelsamid (07:56)
Yeah. I mean I commuted daily to jobs for thirty years in cars with manual transmissions. And you know, and a a fair amount of that driving was, you know, in stop and go traffic. So, you know, I you know, I'm I'm sixty years old now. So I I understand, you know, why you know if you need something as a daily driver, you might not want that to be a car with a

a manual transmission after you've been doing it for a long time.

Roberto Baldwin (08:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (08:29)
yeah, I mean, if it was if it was me, I wouldn't mind having a prelude in the garage and also having my Miata that I take out. My Miata is is my toy. You know, I

Roberto Baldwin (08:41)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (08:41)
take it out once or twice a week, you know, go out bomb around for a while. You know, I took it out on Sunday, drove around for about two and a half hours, you know, going nowhere in particular and then, you know, stopped off on the way home at a farm market and bought some

bought, you know, half a dozen years of corn and some some cider donuts and

Roberto Baldwin (08:58)
You couldn't buy more than that, to

be honest, because it wouldn't fit in a little trunk. But you know, you got I filled the

Sam Abuelsamid (09:02)
Well, yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (09:03)
trunk with my miata with a half a dozen donuts and some corn.

Sam Abuelsamid (09:07)
No,

I mean I could easily get a couple dozen ears of corn in the in the trunk of the Miata. And and since I was driving by myself, I could also use the passenger seat. Yeah. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (09:10)
Okay, there you go. Four dozen years of court. you c passenger seat. That's extra, yeah. People never think about that. They're

like, how you gonna get your guitar to the space? I'm like no one's in the car with me. I can just put it in the passenger

Sam Abuelsamid (09:22)
Yeah, exactly.

Roberto Baldwin (09:23)
seat. Ta-da.

Sam Abuelsamid (09:24)
I you know, I I do that with my paddle board sometimes, you know, and I and have the have the oar, you know, the paddle and and the board, you know, sitting in there. No problem at all.

Roberto Baldwin (09:34)
I put a eight foot long two by twos into my two of into my BRZ and I drove home from the hardware store. I just had to go all the way from the back,

Sam Abuelsamid (09:42)
Huh.

Roberto Baldwin (09:44)
all the way out the side. So they were like s snug in between the the the passenger side mirror. Thing has like a little towel. I zip type. Yeah, so it was like I was jousting on the way home. I'll

Sam Abuelsamid (09:51)
I I have I did that I haven't done that with the Miata, but I did that with the Mustang. Yeah. Exactly, yeah.

Fold fold down the back seat, you know, so s stick it back all the way back into the trunk, you know, and have, you know, a few feet sticking out the window. No problem.

Roberto Baldwin (10:09)
Civic hybrid is way to go, still more fun and way more practical. Yes, here's the thing is I I don't care about practicality 'cause I don't have other people with me.

Sam Abuelsamid (10:20)
You know, if

Roberto Baldwin (10:20)
Adam I bet Adam makes up so so Adam says in the chat the prelude is great, but fifty ponies shy of enough power, which I think it's it's four hundred and four hundred pounds too heavy. I would like it if I had a little bit more power sometimes on the freeway. I I felt like I didn't get the I didn't have the oomph that I wanted in order to pass. and then it I feel if I most people see if I pred hybrids is the way to go. Still fun and and way more practical. the I I still think the but but that type R suspension makes it

A lot more fun. This is for people if you live somewhere where you have

Sam Abuelsamid (10:50)
Yeah. That that is the key difference

is the suspension and the brakes on the prelude.

Roberto Baldwin (10:55)
Yeah, the suspension and brakes are outstanding.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:01)
I mean I I totally

agree with Adam that you know the Civic Hybrid is fantastic. you know, and you know, if you've got, you know, one or two young kids that, you know, still car seats, you know, or even if they're not in car seats and you know booster seats, whatever, you know, that you also need to shuttle around, the yeah, absolutely go for the civic hybrid. but you know, if you don't have to carry anybody but your your partner around, then go for the prelude. It's great.

Roberto Baldwin (11:29)
It is a it is a great second car. How's that? I think that's the

Sam Abuelsamid (11:31)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (11:32)
the get the pr the Civic Hybrid and the Prelude. Or, you know, the ridgeline and the prelude. Or I guess most people would just get the C R V, which is why we don't have the fit anymore. Because of the C R V, which I pour one out for the

Sam Abuelsamid (11:40)
Yeah, exactly. The you know the the

Roberto Baldwin (11:44)
for the for the Honda fit.

Sam Abuelsamid (11:46)
yeah, and and the thing is, you know, because the the Prelude already has type R suspension, type R brakes on it. my guess is that come November when SEMA rolls around, I would be sho and you can go to Honda, they sell type R crate engines. You can buy a type R engine, transmission, the electronics, and it'll drop right in there. And I would be shocked if there isn't somebody at SEMA this year.

That has a prelude with a type R power train in it with a mi six speed manual and everything.

Roberto Baldwin (12:21)
Yeah, yeah, I could see that. I mean t there's a Honda's are so easy to to work on. They're so easy to do engine swaps. There's a reason why the Civic and you know was was you know, people were just throwing gigantic engines, you know, Ks and and and K engines into the Civ 'cause it was just easy. Like you could just like me and my friends could s swap an engine like, you know, in a course of a day 'cause we were goofing around most of the time.

Sam Abuelsamid (12:45)
Yeah, it

you know, they're they're not you know, they're aluminum so they're not that heavy. I mean, you know, all you need is some chains and a you know, a four by four, you know, to if if you don't have a an engine cherry p yeah engine left. I'm t yeah. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (12:58)
Cherry picker. I think what that's what's the engine thing? Yeah, we called them cherry pickers when I was a kid. I don't remember what I don't remember.

There's a real name, engine lifter thing.

Sam Abuelsamid (13:08)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (13:10)
but you can get those from Harbor Freight for like, you know, not very much money. And it's because it's a Honda engine, it's very light.

Sam Abuelsamid (13:14)
Yeah, but you know what?

I think I would be more trusting of a couple of friends of mine lifting the engine out than using a Harbor Freight crane.

Roberto Baldwin (13:22)
I bought a harbor freight cane for when we had to swap the engine on my Civic or on my Del Sol. One of them had it both of them ended up ha I ended up no, the Del Sol needed a new engine. It the engine blew. and I bought one, it was like a hundred bucks. And then when I was done I just left it at the person's house. I'm like, Merry Christmas and I just wandered on I just wandered

Sam Abuelsamid (13:42)
Ha ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (13:43)
away. I did go back and take the engine 'cause the engine was still there like a month later and I went and took the engine and I disposed of it at some place and

It takes engines, I don't know. I guess a junkyard? I don't know. It was a very long time ago. but yeah, so okay, so here but the here's the deal is the prelude is is it's a pricey car. It's not it's yeah, you it's you know, it starts at forty two thousand dollars. Wolf. So that's that's that's where you're like, okay, what am I you're you're paying for that type of all those type R bits thrown on there. That's that's what you're paying for.

Sam Abuelsamid (14:17)
Right. Well, you know, at

at forty two thousand, it is roughly about halfway between the price of a type R and a Civic Hybrid Sport Touring. So, you know, the Civic Hybrid Sport Touring is about thirty six, thirty seven thousand dollars. Forty two for the prelude, you know, so you get the the the hybrid powertrain, but you get the the type R suspension and brakes, and that that d body design. And then, you know, if you wanna go all the way, you know

If I mean if if they sold a prelude type R, you know, it's gonna be closer to fifty thousand than forty thousand anyway. So, you

Roberto Baldwin (14:55)
Yeah. It's 'cause yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (14:57)
know, at forty two, you know, you you're right, it's not cheap, but it's not it's not a horrible

Roberto Baldwin (15:01)
It's it's like a

Sam Abuelsamid (15:03)
deal.

Roberto Baldwin (15:03)
it's like a goldilux and you're you're getting a h and and and and again, you're getting a Honda. That's at the end of the day when when you know Honda has you know, they they have this this reputation for reliability and great engineering and they yeah, they they continue to to say, yeah, well, you know, you get in the car, you close the door, you're Yep, I'm in a Honda. As soon as you close that door, you get the you're like Yeah, yeah. This this is

Sam Abuelsamid (15:27)
And you know, just

fold down that vestigial back seat and you got a big cargo area back there.

Roberto Baldwin (15:30)
It's not that seat. It's a

it's as useful as the BRZ seat. It's completely worthless.

Sam Abuelsamid (15:36)
Well it's fun.

At least, you know, I mean at least you look at the seat on a BRZ and it's usually got a little nicer upholstery on it than the back seat in in the prelude. You know, clearly they you know, they looked at it and they said, Why are we spending a lot of money on on upholstery for this? People are just gonna fold it down and and use it for cargo space. So just put the cheap stuff on there.

Roberto Baldwin (15:58)
Yeah, the the back seat is just like what is it's to keep stuff from sliding from the trunk into the front. That's what it's for.

Sam Abuelsamid (16:03)
That's true, yeah. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (16:05)
It's to keep stuff from hitting you the back of the head in case of a in case of an accident.

Sam Abuelsamid (16:08)
Ha ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (16:11)
yeah. So yeah, so yeah, so it you it a two-liter, four cylinder, paddle shifters. It's a fun car. It's a lot more fun than I anticipated. it's a lot more comfortable than I anticipated. I I I really it's it the the comfort part was

was, you know, 'cause it is still, you know, sports styled car. So, you know, you're sitting low, you know, you have the the sports seats. I typically am more comfortable than sports seats than other seats. I don't know why. and the same was here, you know, I had a v you know, y again, seats are a completely unique individual thing. You get into the car, drive it around, really, you know, smoosh your body in there to see if if you're if you're gonna be happy with those seats. but yeah, all you know the

Climate controls or knobs that can turn. Hot cold, hot, cold. You know, the audio, hot louder quiet, louder quiet. Like a lot of buttons. It does have, you know, it's its infotainment system, which has along the side it has like, you know, the hot has like a home button and a back button. And those are actual buttons. They're not like capacitive touch, like they actually move. You would you depress them, which is nice. so yeah, overall it's it doesn't it has an electric

e break so but also you know you have to do trail it's not a again it's it's not a it's not a brz. That's that's

Sam Abuelsamid (17:25)
So does so does everything else today though. Almost everything. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (17:30)
that's what I'm trying to tell you. It's a if you want a BRZ definitely get a BRZ. If you want a a Z get a Z. If you want but if you want to be a little bit more comfortable you st you want you'd like this styling

Sam Abuelsamid (17:41)
And get forty plus miles per gallon.

Roberto Baldwin (17:43)
and get for like 40 like so their so their EPA fuel economy is combined

is 44, city is 46, highway is 41. it went into EV mode like whenever I was just cruising around, it was like in Eevee mode, which is really nice. It's nice and quiet and smooth. the transition from EV to gas was very smooth as well. And you don't have that bah you know that you're getting with the Hiotas. so it it's it's it's a very composed fun little car that you can toss around in the mountains and then drive to work.

And spend like you know however much it cost a gallon of gas for you. I don't know if here it's like well, I think it's it's hitting six it's almost six dollars. I paid six fifteen because I went on vacation last week and we were way, way, way up north in the middle of nowhere. And we paid six fifteen a gallon, which is a lot. Well, I wasn't driving that. We were driving across the Pacifica.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:38)
But you don't use very many gallons when you're driving a prelude. okay.

Roberto Baldwin (18:44)
No, wait, we paid five ninety-five. We skipped the six fifteen a gallon.

So we paid in five ninety five.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:48)
Got the cheap stuff, huh?

Roberto Baldwin (18:50)
We got the cheap stuff. But yeah, and it came in this the boost blue, which is beautiful.

Sam Abuelsamid (18:55)
that's a great colour.

Roberto Baldwin (18:56)
Yeah, it's it's and it's so you know, I I I can understand I understand why people were like, boo, but not really. It that's never what the the prelude was. I think it's like it the prelude has had had the same issue that the NSX had. Like everyone thought you know the NSX came out and it was so crazy to us as kids

Because it was a supercar from Japan. And like I remember like they had an ad about how in even to save weight, they drilled holes in the brake in the brake

Sam Abuelsamid (19:25)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (19:26)
pedal, and we were like, that's crazy. Like it wasn't that crazy. But it was like to us, it was like amazing. And the new NSX comes out and they're like, Well, it's not a this, it's not a that, it's not, you know, it doesn't have the the the throaty sound of another supercar. But also

Like when I drove it, it had like sixteen hundred miles, which for a supercar that might as well be a hundred thousand miles. And it drove great. And if anything broke, I could take it to a Acura dealer. Or a Honda dealer. Or whatever Honda adjacent dealer was nearby. I could just hey, can you fix my NSX? Yeah, it's okay, yeah. We can just order the parts and meanwhile, well so the story about the NSX real quick. We were shooting video of the NSX and these two guys rode by on like billion dollar bicycles.

And they stopped and they came over and they're like, this and my guy's new and it's like, Yeah, we both have Ferraris. My friends, his has been in Italy for eighteen months. Mine on the other hand, I need to get an oil change, but there's a nine month wait.

I was like, Well you could just get this and it you would have saved money and you'd be able to drive it. They were like, Wow, that's pretty cool So that's the yeah

Sam Abuelsamid (20:35)
And

and you know what else? You can fit a stand up roll up a fold inflatable stand up paddle board in the trunk of the NSX. I did that.

Roberto Baldwin (20:44)
See, this is all the things

you like. This is this is why this is the most important podcast about cars, is our stand up paddleboard inflatable paddleboard content.

Sam Abuelsamid (20:54)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (20:56)
And r random interactions with individuals who own Ferraris.

Sam Abuelsamid (21:04)
all right. So that's the that's that's the prelude. I I agree, I I like the new prelude. I like it a lot. so I had the twenty twenty six Land Rover Discovery Gemini edition. and so this you know this is kind of the the the

little brother to the Range Rovers, you know, it's not as fancy as a Range Rover. it's not as the current generation Discovery is not, you know, kind of the not quite as hardcore and off rotor as the Defender or Old School Discoveries were. but, you know, it's a it's a nice balance, you know, for a lot of people. If you know, if you like Land Rovers, you know, Land Rovers slash Range Rovers.

you want a little more room, a little more comfort than than a defender. you know, you don't necessarily need to to go all the places that a defender might be able to go. the currently comes only with a three liter inline six mild hybrid, which has a forty eight volt belted starter generator and it's also got an electric supercharger on there. very much like

the configuration on the the experimental Grand Cherokee that we saw a month or so ago at a at a Stellantis event you know where SRT is working on a system like this that a whole bunch of other automakers have already had in production for years. but anyway the in the in the Discovery this soul set up with an eight speed automatic makes three hundred and fifty five horsepower

369 pound feet of torque. So not as powerful as like the Stellantis Hurricane Six Cylinder, even though it's the same size. but still more than adequate. you know, it's got it's got plenty of performance. the the mild hybrid you know works, you know, it does the the whole auto stop start thing, but because it's a forty-eight volt system, the the startups are a lot quicker, a lot smoother.

And you know, the engine stays off longer at intersections. I mean, when you when you have a car that's just a twelve volt system with an auto stop start, a lot of times in during the span of a you know, when you're sitting at a red light, you know, especially if it's warmer and you got the AC on or the heat on, the engine's gonna f fire back up part you know, before the light turns green. And when you've got your foot on the brake pedal, that's when you really feel it start up. you know.

If you know if you've managed to get all the way through the light cycle before before it starts up, and you lift your foot off the brake pedal, you generally don't feel it on most modern cars. but when your foot's on the pedal, you know, then you've got that reaction force going working against the engine, and that's when you hear it shake. So with a mild a 48-volt mild hybrid system, it stays off longer. You know, it you basically never feel the engine coming back on. You'll just you might hear it a little bit, but you're not gonna feel it.

and you know, the the design of of the current generation Discovery is definitely different, you know, from all of the previous this is the sixth generation Discovery. Yeah, it doesn't have that boxy look of the classic Discoveries. you know, so it's a it's a very different look. and you know it's it you know, it looks fine, you know, but it it's not

It doesn't really have the the this you know, the classic Land Rover look to it. yeah, and this this is something that, you know, a lot of fans of the Discovery haven't really cared for all that much. you know, I'm fine with the design. I like the Sedona red paint that was on it on this one. especially before it got all dirty when I took it down some dirt roads, when it was raining. then it you know, looked more like what a you know, what you would expect a Land Rover to look like.

but the the interior of the of the discovery of the the current generation discovery, something I was less enthused about. you know, it's mostly touch controls. the infotainment system is okay. It's a little slow.

Roberto Baldwin (25:39)
Is it slow or this is my thing with the J L Art infotainment system, is you touch it and then it sort of like fades to the next thing. And

Sam Abuelsamid (25:47)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (25:48)
so you never like is this slow or a feature?

Sam Abuelsamid (25:50)
Well, that's the

thing. I think I think they do that. They do those slow animations to kind of hide the fact that it's actually kind of slow. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (25:55)
Trick you. That has latency.

Sam Abuelsamid (26:01)
yeah. And then you know you've got the you do have a couple of big knobs for the for the the temperature controls. got wireless charging pad. there is a knob on the center console for to d choose the drive modes. it does have a two speed

Transfer case, so there is a four wheel drive low, in addition to four high and all wheel drive and two wheel drive. you know, so it with the tires, you know, the all season tires that were on this one, you know, it d doesn't it's not necessarily gonna have the traction that you would want for a true off rotor. but you know it's got if you were to re replace those tires with some proper all terrain tires on smaller wheels, get rid of the twenty two inch wheels, you know, go to

You know, something like an eighteen, with all terrain tires on there. It it's actually got some serious off road capability. But the reality is that the people usually especially the the people who buy these new, they don't take them off road. They don't care.

Roberto Baldwin (27:04)
No, these never go in anything.

Sam Abuelsamid (27:06)
it's usually like the third or fourth owner who will take one of these. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (27:08)
They'll they'll park in a gravel parking lot at a

like high end farmers market. Like where there's

Sam Abuelsamid (27:15)
Yes.

Roberto Baldwin (27:15)
like the cheeses are all from goats

Sam Abuelsamid (27:18)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (27:18)
and everything has the word heirloom in front of it. Artisanal Yeah, like artisanal su

Sam Abuelsamid (27:22)
Yeah. K kinda like the farmers market in Bodega Bay. Yeah, yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (27:27)
everything, yeah. The artisanal farmers market. Here's a tomato for twelve dollars.

Sam Abuelsamid (27:29)
Exactly. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (27:32)
Ooh.

Sam Abuelsamid (27:36)
the I was surprised to learn that this is actually a seven seater. you know, because when I well, so the rear seats, this one, yeah, has electric fold third row seats, you know, when I opened up the cargo area, you know, it was a big rubber mat in there, you know, covering the whole cargo area, which was nice. you know, 'cause went to the lake, you know, got some got some sand in there. You know, wasn't, you know.

Easy enough to take out the rubber mat and shake it off. then when I looked over on the side, I saw the switches. so to in order to put up the third row seats, you have to take out the rubber mat, leave that at home. and then to you'll also have to take out the cargo cover. So there's an you know, cargo cover that you can pull out. so you have to take that out, because otherwise the third row seats can't go up all the way. And then there's

some switches in the back on the left hand side of the cargo area that will you can use to lift up the the third row seats. And I I put them up and there's actually a decent amount of leg room back there. so they're th

Roberto Baldwin (28:44)
Huh. Good job.

Sam Abuelsamid (28:46)
they're actually usable. you don't have a whole lot of of cargo space left behind the third row seat. I think most people will probably just use this as a as a five seater, yeah as a two row.

Roberto Baldwin (28:57)
Like you

all you all met at the farmers market and now you're going to the very fancy like wine bar down the street. It's all getting the discovery. Head

Sam Abuelsamid (29:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (29:06)
on down to the wine bar, get a little boozed up, and then we'll come back and I'll drop you all off and you can get your individual cars and drive home.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:14)
There you go. Yeah. Do some do some wine tasting. have some cheese. Have some of them some more artisanal cheese. some charcuterie. And then you can go home. so the the the Discovery you know, since it's a Land Rover, not inexpensive, starts at seventy thousand eight hundred, for for for the Gemini edition, which

Roberto Baldwin (29:42)
Chipana.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:43)
I

actually was not even able to find on the Land Rover USA website. So

Roberto Baldwin (29:48)
Yeah, I looked it up, I couldn't find it.

Sam Abuelsamid (29:49)
yeah, so I I think I think they might I think they might have actually already switched over to twenty twenty seven models on the website. So they don't have the discover the Gemini edition anymore. 'cause they the closest one

Roberto Baldwin (30:00)
Well I'm glad they sent it to you.

Sam Abuelsamid (30:04)
I they had was the the landmark, which also starts at seventy thousand eight hundred. So I think they just rebranded it.

You know, they they don't actually have the model years on the Land Rover website, so not real not entirely sure. but y you know, you got a multi-zone climate control system. the you know, this one had the advanced off road capability pack for twenty four hundred bucks. That gets you the two speed transfer case. and the all terrain progress control, which is you know, their fancy off road traction control system. also had

the twenty two inch wheels for sixteen hundred and fifty bucks. Again, if you're gonna spend twenty four hundred bucks on the off road pack, don't don't

Roberto Baldwin (30:47)
Don't get

Sam Abuelsamid (30:48)
spend twenty two hundred bucks on twenty two inch wheels. Just saying. it does have a twenty

Roberto Baldwin (30:50)
Yeah, you kind of mm it's like like

I put the turbo on my car but then I put winter tires on it for the summer. You're like what?

Sam Abuelsamid (31:05)
it it does have it all d there this one also had a twenty two inch full size spare tire. you know, which is nice. Nice, nice treat to have. it had the cold climate pack so that when you look through the windshield, if you look real carefully, you'll see the little zigzag wires running up all the way through the windshield to defrost it, which is, you know, those things that that that system works really well when it's you know, when you're driving in the snow and ice. and

a few other things. Grand total, eighty three thousand one hundred and ninety five dollars.

Roberto Baldwin (31:43)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (31:46)
Defenders I think start about sixty grand now.

Roberto Baldwin (31:46)
That's the thing.

Yeah, see so here's it I I think I know people who have Land Rovers. And I know I think I know someone who has a diff discovery and when they their LR I think it was three or four was aging out and they they were like, What should I get? And I told a couple of things and they got a Land Rover. They've they were gonna get a Land Rover no matter what. So they just got the Discovery. I think that's they're they're it's a bit like like Subaru people and Jaguar people.

They're just I'm just gonna get it. But but no, I'm no. They they're not they're gonna listen to like, you know, well Land Rover has a little issue, you know. No, don't doesn't matter. They love their Land Rovers. It's Jaguar

Sam Abuelsamid (32:28)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (32:29)
people, they love their Jaguars. Don't listen, if you you know you went into the relationship understanding what the limitations were and what was gonna happen. And if you're happy with that, if you're happy with your Land Rover, more power to you. You have a second car? Awesome. Get a

Sam Abuelsamid (32:43)
Even

better, yeah. 'Cause yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (32:44)
Get the Civic Hybrid. A Civic Hybrid

and the Land Rover Discovery is perfect two car garage if you're a f fan of Land Rover. But really you should have gotten to Defender.

Sam Abuelsamid (32:55)
Well the the Discovery is rated at seventeen city, twenty three highway, nineteen combined. I did my like forty five, fifty mile test loop that I do with with most vehicles and it's a combination of highway and city and suburban and rural driving. And it averaged twenty two miles per gallon. So it you know, it actually didn't do terribly. you know, four

Roberto Baldwin (33:20)
That's pretty good.

Sam Abuelsamid (33:21)
for a three row SUV, you know, that is fairly hefty.

Yeah, that's you know, that's competitive. Yeah, it's not it's let's just say it's not embarrassing.

Roberto Baldwin (33:34)
Well the Defender ninety, which is the one you should get, but no one's gonna get that 'cause it's only two s it's only a two door. How much does this thing start at?

if I gotta scroll I'm already angry. Is it this

Sam Abuelsamid (33:47)
Ha ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (33:49)
is of those things where have to click on build your own before they tell me. Just look at this. I'm just wasting time now on the podcast.

Sam Abuelsamid (33:56)
shop now. Let's see. build and reserve defender.

The Defender ninety starts at sixty one thousand dollars.

Roberto Baldwin (34:06)
Alright. There you go. That's that's pretty nice.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:09)
The

the one ten starts at sixty five, so that's the four door. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (34:12)
yeah, there you go. So if you

you're weird like me and you want a two door, you know, you'll save a little bit of cash. Just get the you get the steelies, you know boom. Get the smaller tires.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:21)
Yeah. Get a got a set of steelys

with some Bridgestone K K O f KO threes,

Roberto Baldwin (34:30)
Wait, whoops.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:31)
and you can go just about anywhere.

Roberto Baldwin (34:33)
Boom, you get the eighteen inch Steeleys. The white wheels.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:37)
Or or you could go with the Defender Okta. Yeah, which has the BMW Twin Turbo V8 in it.

Roberto Baldwin (34:45)
it does have the BMW. That's the best part of it.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:47)
that you know, that one's only a hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars.

Roberto Baldwin (34:50)
Never mind.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:56)
all right.

Roberto Baldwin (34:55)
I mean there's a reason why people use BMW engines though.

Sam Abuelsamid (34:59)
Yeah. All right. Let's

Roberto Baldwin (35:01)
Just ask Grenadier.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:02)
let's carry on. so remember back in late twenty twenty four, it was all news that Honda and and Nissan were gonna merge. And they they

Roberto Baldwin (35:13)
yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:14)
started having a bunch of discussions and

When Nissan started or when Honda started looking at Nissan's books, I said, Yeah, I don't think so. I

Roberto Baldwin (35:22)
Maybe na. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:24)
I think we can we can do this on our own.

Roberto Baldwin (35:28)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:29)
and then, you know, things started turning south for Honda last year as the whole E V thing started blowing up in their face and they ended up canceling most of their E V projects, and writing off

Roberto Baldwin (35:41)
In North and

in America, they're very quick to say, Hey, we we're still have J V we have joint ventures in China, we're still doing EVs in Europe. It's America.

Sam Abuelsamid (35:50)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (35:50)
I think at the end of the day, like we don't want to deal with America. Which I'm like,

Sam Abuelsamid (35:53)
Yeah, exactly.

Roberto Baldwin (35:55)
alright, fine, I guess. that that SUV looked really nice, but fine.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:00)
Yeah. So you know, so they wrote off I don't know, like twelve, fifteen billion dollars or something like that. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (36:05)
Gazillion dollars, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (36:08)
but part of that EV project was an all new electrical architecture and a new software platform. So they had a zonal EE architecture for their EVs and they had a new software platform. We don't you know we don't know if that's actually going to be used going forward, but

Nissan and Honda a few days ago announced that they have signed a joint development agreement for next generation software defined vehicles with a new EE architecture and a software platform that they're gonna work on together. I reached out to both Nissan and to Honda and they both said, We're not saying anything right now about what we're doing, you know, about which software, which electronics we're gonna use, but they're gonna have common electronics.

common ECUs between the two companies. and my guess is it's probably gonna be based on the stuff from the Zero series with the Asimo

Roberto Baldwin (37:07)
Yeah. I think that's

Sam Abuelsamid (37:09)
OS. and the first the first products using that gonna be coming out in fiscal year twenty twenty nine. which is tr the Japanese

Roberto Baldwin (37:22)
Alonged.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:22)
all start their fiscal year on April first and I'm trying to remember

Roberto Baldwin (37:27)
What year it is now? I think it's twenty twenty six.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:28)
well it was twice.

Roberto Baldwin (37:33)
So three years from now.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:36)
well it might be two. Fiscal year twenty twenty nine. so that would be

Roberto Baldwin (37:45)
and a half.

Sam Abuelsamid (37:48)
starting April twenty nine. Okay, so yeah, it won't be till twenty twenty nine. so sometime in starting in twenty twenty nine we'll start seeing products from Nissan and Honda that use this new common software platform and electronic architecture.

Roberto Baldwin (38:05)
So it it'll be intri I'm I'm very interested to see how what Honda does to return to the US with E Vs 'cause I've talked to them and it's it's it I think there's something there. They're gonna keep doing EVs ev elsewhere. I'm curio but I know they're still working on their solid state battery.

They're still working on that. Nissan has its own like process for doing solid. They're completely different. They're just bonkers different. Like it like how both of them are doing solid state batteries. so it'll I I I wonder, and this is this is wild, wild off the top in in the back of my head, this will probably never happen if Honda's waiting until it figures out solid state to come back to the US. And just be like, look at what we did. Look at that.

Because it can continue to do all of its development for for EVs for other countries, which it's you know, it sells vehicles all over the world. and other things. I saw two Moto Compactos at the at the race this weekend, by the way. people are just riding around. Like a s a a man and his son. or a man and a random child he found. Either way. so yeah, so

Sam Abuelsamid (39:12)
He he he

ha he had an extra motocompactor and said, Hey kid, you wanna come for a ride?

Roberto Baldwin (39:16)
I a man and a happy child.

Sam Abuelsamid (39:18)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (39:21)
so I'm I'm yeah, 'cause, you know, S D Vs typically those are EVs. They talk about carbon neutrality in here. Nissan's still working toward you know, working with their EVs. They have the Leaf, they still have the Leaf. They have Sakura, which, you know, is doing well in Japan for them. So, you know, they they are a little bit more working towards EVs just because and it it helps that they have like, you know, the lineage of

the leaf for X amount decades.

Sam Abuelsamid (39:48)
And they still sell

the the Aria in Japan and in other markets. They just they only discontinued it in North America.

Roberto Baldwin (39:55)
Yeah. So I think it's it's a Honda is extremely conservative company. That's that's they they're they're super smart, they're super their their engineering's in insane, their quality's great, but they're also very safe. Anytime there's something weird comes out of Honda, it you should be you should you should lose your mind because

Sam Abuelsamid (40:13)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (40:14)
it took a long time for that to get like the prelude, the Honda E like the Honda E the the the the brass did not want that vehicle to get sold. They did not like that vehicle at all.

And the the the the person who the project lead, like there was an interview with In Gadget where he was just like, It's hard to build a car when you know your bosses hate it. And the reason that car didn't come to the US is for because of one person, and that's all I can say about that. but it yeah, it's it's but like any sort of weird fun things that come out of Honda, there's a lot of like mmm, let me think. Okay

Sam Abuelsamid (40:51)
Makes you wonder how they managed to get

the motocompacto built.

Roberto Baldwin (40:54)
Yeah, it's and I I they I really think it's just like, well, let's look at the numbers, let's figure it out. And then maybe every once in a while there's like a day. You know how they have those movies, The Purge, where once a year you can break all the laws or whatever? I think they have that sort of

situation at Honda where once a year everyone pitches the most insane ideas and Honda has to do one of them. They have to allow one. And I think that's what happens. They have some sort of like idea purge.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:20)
They said, the moto compacto, not gonna cost us very much. Okay, fine, do it. Do that one. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (41:25)
It'll be fun and goofy. We're not we don't we're not

gonna sell that many. But it'll be a fun, goofy thing. Come on.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:33)
Okay, fair enough.

Roberto Baldwin (41:34)
We got generators,

we make it we make planes. We can make a little scooter. They're making rockets. yeah, they're making rockets.

Sam Abuelsamid (41:37)
Yeah. They're they're making rockets now. Well, you

know, and and last fall at the Japan Mobility Show, one of the things that they unveiled was the Zero Alpha, which looks you know, has the same kind of styling as the Zero SUV that they were gonna build for North America, except it was a little bit smaller. You know, it was about like you know, seven eighths scale version of the Zero Alpha or the Zero SUV.

and it was in and and but it also used cheaper technology than what was supposed to go into the the North American zero series cars. And that the Zero Alpha was meant for markets like India. So I wonder if we might see them bring that to North America at some point in the future.

Roberto Baldwin (42:24)
I'm sure they're looking at Slate. They're looking at the Bolt because the Bolt was selling really well before it got taken off the market. I think they're looking and they're seeing that people are like, you know what, and and they're looking at the the you know the inexpensive truck, you know, because Slate. Not everyone's coming out with an inexpensive pickup, because the Maverick and Slate, let's just say those two vehicles. One's gather. And so, you you have Toyota Toyota's supposed to be coming out with something. You know, I guess Dodge isn't doing rampage, they're doing something else. Anyway.

But yeah, I think they're they're they're keeping an eye on the inexpensive E V market. And I think they're I think I I and I I continue to say this that I think one of the problems was that everyone thought that an EV needed to be a space car with a billion screens and all this other stuff. And the reality is people just want a car. They don't they don't it doesn't need to be design you know, it does the interior doesn't need to be like a spaceship. It doesn't need to be Star Trek themed. It doesn't I mean, well, if it was Star Trek themed, it would sell really well.

But it doesn't but you know, it it can just be a car. You could just make a Honda Civic that was an E V and people be like, yeah, that's fine, I'll buy it 'cause I know people who you know, the prologue was just people who like, it's got a Honda badge on it, now I'm gonna buy an E V.

So I think they they they

Sam Abuelsamid (43:39)
Maybe. And

you know, maybe maybe they'll, you know, keep an eye on, you know, the Fathom is another one.

Roberto Baldwin (43:44)
Yeah, the fathom I think is is a big is gonna be something we're gonna really keep an eye on. Which is a great segue to some more news.

Sam Abuelsamid (43:49)
'Cause it you know Yeah.

so you know, the the they've Ford dropped some more pictures of the prototype fathoms driving around, including some shots in Las Vegas. And Jim Farley said they wanna build they wanna sell a hundred thousand fathoms in the first year.

Roberto Baldwin (44:13)
This how they got in trouble with the F one fifty lightning.

Sam Abuelsamid (44:18)
Well, you know a lot's gonna depend on, you know, whether, you know, they can actually keep the price down. Yeah. If they if they can do that, yeah, if they if they can if they can actually sell them, you know, for thirty to thirty five thousand dollars, yeah, then I think I think it could do well.

Roberto Baldwin (44:40)
I th yeah. I think they can do well as long as they don't

Sam Abuelsamid (44:42)
And and they gotta execute on the software.

They can't screw up the software.

Roberto Baldwin (44:46)
Yeah. Yeah. And I that's where I feel like Slate has the advantage because the software like, Well, we have a BMS. The end, we don't have to do anything else. We don't have to The BMS is done. What about this mm no. We got a we got an app and we can update it over the phone. And you don't even need the app to drive the car. Like, we have like nope, you won't have to call back home. We have to do anything. We have a telematics kit for fleets, but you know. We have the app. That's it.

We don't to deal with

Sam Abuelsamid (45:15)
I mean yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (45:15)
the software that doesn't start for twenty minutes while we're driving down the car driving down the road.

Sam Abuelsamid (45:20)
If if if they can actually do that, if they can sell anywhere near a hundred thousand fathoms in the first year, that would make it the by far the best selling EV in North America after Tesla, after the Model Three and the Model Y. 'Cause nothing has

Roberto Baldwin (45:34)
yeah. And y

Sam Abuelsamid (45:35)
nothing has come close to that for any one nameplate.

Roberto Baldwin (45:39)
I can get thirty thousand dollars.

For Ford, which, you know, I you know, like I think I said before, where slate, you know, well, people are like, well, you should be able to get more for that twenty five thousand. I'm like, first of all, they don't have the purchasing power or the

Sam Abuelsamid (45:51)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (45:51)
scale or the ability to manufacture they don't have the they don't they don't and they don't have the F one fifty, the big pile of money that comes in with the F one fifty every year. They are a startup. This is the best you're gonna get for twenty five thousand dollars from a from a from a company like this. Whereas Ford, they could make this car twenty five thousand dollars and still have it

you know, with more with better equipped than the slate. But you know, they look we want to do a little extra and we want to make some money. We have shareholders, which is something slate doesn't have to deal with right now, that we have to to deal with. So yeah, if you could get if they could hit thirty thousand and stick with it. Don't pull a maverick on us. Don't don't don't tell us, you know, later on it's like, yeah now the starting price is forty percent more. Just stick with it. Everyone's gonna buy them thirty five thousand

dollar one anyway but stick with that stick with that number because that news stays with you that stays forever that again that's the silver avo Silverado Chevy had the the the the opposite problem with the Silverado because it came out and everyone's like it's a hundred thousand dollar truck and now forever in the odd in in the general populist mind is this truck starts at hundred thousand dollars. You can buy it for sixty

Sam Abuelsamid (47:06)
Yeah. But

Roberto Baldwin (47:06)
But that's that's

not how regular people see that truck. I've had people come up to me, you know this truck costs a hundred thousand dollars and like Okay, let me tell you a little story

Sam Abuelsamid (47:16)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (47:18)
about bad marketing.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:19)
Yes. Yeah, they I mean you know, GM made a big mistake, you know, launching just the work truck only for fleets and then the RST for a hundred grand. You know, and then bringing up cheaper models. But even even

Roberto Baldwin (47:33)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:33)
the cheaper models are still not that cheap. You know, they start

Roberto Baldwin (47:37)
Yeah, they're not

Sam Abuelsamid (47:37)
at like sixty grand. But then again, that's the price of most trucks now is sixty grand. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (47:42)
Yeah, that's how much a truck costs anyway. So sixty grand

is like, all right. So if this is like half the price, it has, you know, room, you know, it has four doors, which people love. I again, well, for me, my personal life, don't need four doors.

Sam Abuelsamid (47:58)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (47:59)
We have a we have we have a car with four doors for the dogs.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:05)
speaking of Ford while while we're with Ford the Foxbody Mustangs. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (48:13)
yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:14)
I bought I bought one in nineteen ninety when I graduated from college. I bought a five liter LX. I paid thirteen thousand dollars for it.

Eight years later, with like ninety thousand miles on it, I sold it for five grand.

Roberto Baldwin (48:34)
Pretty good.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:34)
Can you

imagine paying two hundred and eighty thousand dollars for a fox body mustang?

Roberto Baldwin (48:39)
I I cannot because I felt like these things were everywhere. They were just the the world was silly with fox bodies. There were they 'cause they you could you could do a you could do a peel you could peel out of them. You could do a do donuts

Sam Abuelsamid (48:52)
Mm-hmm.

Roberto Baldwin (48:52)
in them with not because they had the live axle so that it you know, it was just like it just yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (48:56)
trust me, I know. You

you you could you could just look at that thing funny and it would spin. You you you you hit a you

Roberto Baldwin (49:02)
Exactly. It was like the easiest car on the planet to speak.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:06)
hit a pebble mid corner, boom, the back end is hanging up.

Roberto Baldwin (49:10)
Yes, yeah. It's it wasn't a great like it wasn't a great cornering car.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:14)
It

it was not it was not sophisticated, no.

Roberto Baldwin (49:16)
No, it wa i but it was very fast. And

Sam Abuelsamid (49:19)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (49:19)
you know, my my parents had friends who had a shop and they just fixed up fox bodies. Like that's like their main thing. Was people bring in they do they do engine work on them, they do body work on them. And it was just like the fox like I went down there once because they had purchased something for me at cost and it was just like fox bodies, just as far as the eye could see.

And the idea that this how much is this thing again?

Sam Abuelsamid (49:48)
Two hundred and seventy nine thousand dollars.

Roberto Baldwin (49:51)
I don't like in the description that says the world's first and only f Ford Mustang fox body resto mod, 'cause that that cannot be true.

Sam Abuelsamid (49:58)
No, it's it's

by by no means is this the first not even close to the first Resto mod Foxbody. I mean the so many of these things

Roberto Baldwin (50:04)
Yeah, that's not true at all.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:06)
were built. I mean, you know, the Foxbody the Foxbody Mustang was introduced in nineteen seventy nine and was built until nineteen ninety three.

Roberto Baldwin (50:15)
It was just yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:15)
And they built a ton of these things. And yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (50:18)
There were cop cars. They were yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:22)
but you know, this one this one is kinda interesting. like they you know, they have

they built a new frame that they bolt to the bottom of the body to stiffen it up. Yeah, because,

Roberto Baldwin (50:34)
Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:34)
you know, the Fox bodies although, you know, the notchback fox bodies, which is what I had, I had a notch back. you know, were quite a bit stiffer than the hatchbacks. The hatchbacks, you know, they were they were a little flexible. And then the convertibles, well that you know, there

Roberto Baldwin (50:47)
Yeah, 'cause it there is

Sam Abuelsamid (50:49)
was there was no b no structural integrity at all to the convertibles. But then the

Roberto Baldwin (50:52)
It was just like woo.

Sam Abuelsamid (50:54)
notchbacks were actually pretty good.

But you know, they you know, they so this one, the first one they built, you know, they've got a sub an extra frame bolted to the bottom of the body. They've got a modified coyote V eight in this thing. bigger brakes, you know, suspension's been all redone. the interior's

Roberto Baldwin (51:13)
Yay.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:14)
been all redone. It you know, it it's all it's both modern but it still looks like, you know, late eighties, early nineties.

Roberto Baldwin (51:23)
It's a cool looking car. I

Sam Abuelsamid (51:25)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (51:25)
I I I'd never I always liked the look of the foxbody. I just never wanted one because I drove through the mountains most of the time. And I was just like, This is a death trap in the mountains.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:35)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (51:36)
This is this does not drive the way I want to drive.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:39)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (51:40)
But I always liked the look of the foxbody. I thought it was like a cool looking Mustang.

Sam Abuelsamid (51:44)
Yeah, like I said, I you know, I had one I had a notch back nineteen ninety one, five liter LX and I I loved that car. and you know every once in a while I look online, you know, to see, you know, how much it would c I mean even even just a basic one now would cost like you know, in decent shape would cost like twenty grand. Which is insane. I c I can't

Roberto Baldwin (52:06)
That's it's yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (52:09)
imagine that I can't imagine that like that that car costing twenty grand.

You know, forty years later.

Roberto Baldwin (52:16)
no. That's that's the crazy it's the Gen X. We all have a little bit more money. Well, I mean everyone who didn't become writers. Everyone else who's Gen X

Sam Abuelsamid (52:21)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (52:23)
we have a little less money as writers. But you know, it's like the the the I bought my ninety Hunas Civic in nineteen ninety one for five thousand dollars. From a from from the school counselor.

And I got a really great deal on it. I sold it to a friend in the mid 2000s because he was he he had hit hard times. He didn't have a car, like he didn't really he didn't have a job. And I sold it to him for three hundred dollars as for to be nice. That person ended up like, you know, being a jerk to me later on. Well, thanks a lot, buddy. Anyway, now if I'm looking for these, they're like twelve thousand bucks for a ninety hunt the civic hatchback.

It's just like, nope, you want this? Yeah, well you're gonna have to pay through the nose. Every once in a while I'll see just a regular person driving one. It's got a a few little dance and it's a little rusted, but it's it's still going. And I'm always like I always want to go up to him and be like, Hey, I'll give you twelve hundred bucks for your car

Sam Abuelsamid (53:12)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (53:13)
and see if they bite.

Sam Abuelsamid (53:16)
Well, this this insanely expensive Mustang comes from a company in Florida called Velocity Restorations. and they you know, they do all these resto mods. you know, and so they do first generation Ford Broncos. they do F series like going from the sixty nine sixty seven, F one hundred, or F one fifty

and then like the sixty seven to seventies, mid seventies, F two fifties and three fifties. they do the sixty seven, sixty-eight Mustang fastbacks and convertibles and the fox bodies, which are new, they do Chevy C K pickups, K five blazers, and also Scout twos, seventy one to eighty scout twos. So, you know, if you're you know, if you've got a hankering for, you know, something that looks classic.

but you know, is insanely expensive. And, you know, pr undoubtedly far better than the original.

Roberto Baldwin (54:20)
yeah. Yeah, these

and especially when you work on the when they do the chassis work on any these things. Because I think I don't think people realize how many cars were just like bonkers bad at cornering in the in the eighties

Sam Abuelsamid (54:29)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (54:30)
and nineties. It was like whee I'm tilted to the left.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:33)
Yeah, well and the suspensions on on the Broncos and

the Scouts, you know, are way more sophisticated, you know, than what they had back in the sixties.

Roberto Baldwin (54:42)
Yeah, there's just it's just floating around as the chart's going.

Sam Abuelsamid (54:50)
so yeah, check out velocity restorations if you've got some money to spend. let's see, what else? Scout, speaking of Scout, they last week showed off two more variations of the the traveler, their their SUV. you know, 'cause they gotta do something before they eventually finally start building these things, maybe someday.

Roberto Baldwin (55:19)
And they they're

Sam Abuelsamid (55:19)
who knows?

Roberto Baldwin (55:20)
they're they're getting close to pulling a a n ID buzz. They need to get they need to put these things on the market.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:26)
Yeah. it's still it's still a good year away from volume production.

Roberto Baldwin (55:31)
I know. And again, this is a company that's bad you know, it's a Volkswagen company.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:36)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (55:38)
Meanwhile, Slate shows up like a year and a half ago and then they're you know, they have the pre production cars that people are riding in now. They're supposed have production by the end of the year. I'm like that doesn't you know I think there's a there's there's a time where you have to like you know wait before you tell everyone about your car.

Sam Abuelsamid (55:56)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (55:58)
Because you end up with the you know, like I said, the ID buzz issue where like everyone was excited about the buzz and then seven years later the buzz came to market. And you're just like and like whatever. By then

Sam Abuelsamid (56:10)
Well I think

Roberto Baldwin (56:11)
the E V nine was out and you're like, Well, I can just get an E V nine for the same price, it's a vastly superior vehicle.

Sam Abuelsamid (56:18)
I think I in Scout's case, you know, probably the biggest problem is they're trying to figure out how to make the E Rev thing work, and still maintain some towing capability with these things. but the the two concepts that they showed last week are the the mountain side, which is, you know, that's this is more, you know, for the the Range Rover customer, you know, who's gonna drive it up to you know, up to their cabin in Aspen.

you know, to go skiing, or, you know, drive it down Rodeo Drive, you know, but it's never actually gonna really go off road. and then they have the

Call this other one here.

And they showed these off at the Jazz Aspen Snow Mass Labor Day experience last week. what's the other one? Yeah. Okay, so it doesn't actually have a name. So the the trail

Roberto Baldwin (57:12)
Wait, it just says trail ready concept. Mountainside? Okay.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:21)
ready concept, you know, it's got big all terrain tires, you know, got some good rich k let's see, mud terrain TAs, roof rack, you know, all all the goodies on there. you know, for some

From true off roading, you know, thirty five inch, on eighteen inch beadlock wheels, yeah. So all the fun stuff. So

Roberto Baldwin (57:43)
I

I get I like the way the scouts look. I think you know, I think they're cool. I like

Sam Abuelsamid (57:45)
Yeah. So there's there's the trail ready one.

Roberto Baldwin (57:48)
I like that they are pro buttons in the car and knobs.

Sam Abuelsamid (57:51)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (57:51)
They're like I you know, there's so much about them that I like. I under you know, E Revs, sure, why not? You know, people are gonna, you know, want E Revs. I like that you know, it you can get the the

Sam Abuelsamid (58:02)
That's that's the mountainside.

Roberto Baldwin (58:04)
Yeah. but you gotta you gotta come to market, man. Gotta

Sam Abuelsamid (58:09)
Yeah, eventually.

Roberto Baldwin (58:14)
Entry model pricing expected to start under sixty. Cool. Initial production targeted for twenty twenty seven. Doesn't say early, doesn't say middle, doesn't say late, just says twenty twenty-seven. Which is

Sam Abuelsamid (58:25)
But you're not

you're you're not gonna get that E Rev for sixty grand.

Roberto Baldwin (58:29)
no, you're definitely not gonna you're gonna get something else. But yeah, if you can I don't

Sam Abuelsamid (58:39)
and then the

Roberto Baldwin (58:40)
They

gotta be careful. Someone's 'cause I feel like someone's gonna c someone else is gonna come in. I mean Rivian. That's who's coming in and you gotta you gotta yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (58:46)
Yeah. I mean the they've

they've they've been shipping R twos all summer. I've got one coming in a week and a half.

so for there are there are SUVs that actually are coming to market, and will probably be here almost certainly before the scout, including the new Mitsubishi Pajero, which they unveiled

Roberto Baldwin (59:10)
But Jerry.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:11)
last week in Asia, in in in Tokyo. and this is gonna be built at their factory in Thailand. It's a new body on frame SUV.

And looks looks pretty cool.

Roberto Baldwin (59:28)
Looks very angry. I don't know what I did to Mitsubishi but I'm sorry.

Sam Abuelsamid (59:34)
Yeah, I mean it's been a while since they built a Pajero, but it it's back. and if it's anything like the old Pajero's, it'll it'll have some serious off road capabilities. but the the one they showed as as a diesel engine. so if and when it comes to North America it will definitely not have that engine in it, I don't think.

Roberto Baldwin (59:59)
Yeah.

It looks very Hyundai coated.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:03)
Yeah. And what do you think of this interior?

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:05)
You know, you do what you

I'm you know I'm looking at the the close ups of the I mean there are buttons some it's those little

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:15)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:15)
rock the rollers which I I would rather have a knob to be honest. so yeah you know I I I I I I would like more buttons, but it's Mitsubishi so we should just be happy that they're doing something.

And to be fair,

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:33)
Some

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:33)
Mitsubishi sells a lot of like other types of vehicles. They're not just

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:36)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:37)
like if just because they're not really here in the you know they're kind of here in the United States.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:39)
I mean yeah, I mean they sell a ton of

vehicles in other markets. They're they're they're not big in North America. But they're they're big in Asia. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:43)
Yeah, they they're doing fine. They're doing fine everywhere else. Yeah. Like they're

they're but the Outlander P heav was like the number one P hev in in Europe for a while.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:57)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:00:58)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:00:59)
So so this yeah, this is probab you know we we may get the Pajero. They haven't confirmed it. We may get the Pajero or you know, or they might call it a Montero for North America.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:09)
Yeah, they'll probably call it the Montero.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:01:11)
but you know, they're you know, they've they've got other products coming too. They you know, they've they said that they're gonna have something new every year from now through twenty thirty. so you know, they just launched the Eclipse Sport back, which is just a rebatched leaf. but they've got

a f picku truck based on the Nissan Frontier. they've got a couple more SUVs, including probably a version of this for North America, as well as one that's based on the new Nissan Xterra, that's coming in twenty twenty eight. So they've they're gonna have a bunch of additional product in their lineup. So that's good.

Roberto Baldwin (1:01:47)
Yeah, well s you know. I mean if they

if they make it here, let me see let me see what they got. What's some cool cars that it's what's some here what's some cool European cars that we we could get from Mitsubishi that might never come here, but maybe if they start doing well here. Nah, none of these look that exciting. Never mind. Ignore me.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:06)
I don't know. I'm not sure what they sell. Yeah.

I I think they mostly are just selling SUVs and crossovers now. And and some vans, like K vans.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:14)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:17)
so we we had some pictures recently of the new Hyundai Elantra. but there's an interesting detail about the Elantra, at least overseas. and for the entry level versions of the Elantra

Hyundai is going to offer it without an instrument cluster. They'll have just the center screen.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:39)
Ugh how much can a

how much could an instrument cluster cost? Come on. This is This is ridiculous. I'm sorry. Three, yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:02:48)
I don't know. They're they're also doing this on the Ionic Ionic three, which we don't get.

Roberto Baldwin (1:02:55)
I mean come on. Just th how much is it? I bought like a fifteen inch screen, just a digital screen for as a as a second display for an iPad.

And it was like fifty dollars.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:11)
Ha ha.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:13)
I'm buy and I bought one. I'm not buying my cost. I'm not buying like how much could some wiring and you know the th they got the molding, just use the molding from another vehicle. Like how much could that all cost? Especially if it's just the base layer, the base model.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:29)
Yeah. Well

and you know, if you look at the way Hyundai and Kia build their vehicles, you know, the display setups are usually common across a whole bunch of different models. Like the stuff, you know, like you

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:40)
Yeah, it's the same.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:03:42)
look at the Tucson, the Santa Cruz, the Santa Fe, you know, they've got this big module that's got two twelve point three inch displays in it that they put on half a dozen different vehicles. And it's the same part.

Roberto Baldwin (1:03:54)
Yeah.

Boop. Boop. It's a part spin. Boop. Like put a g put a speedometer there or something. That the idea that you have to like I think that the University of Ohio maybe did some research where having your display to the right instead of in front of you actually was you know, it takes you longer to look and see what's going on. I don't I've I'll have to look it up. But

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:24)
So what let's Yeah. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:04:25)
Even a little speedo, just a circle. This is how fast

you're going.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:04:31)
Let's let's talk about charging a little bit. So recently here in Michigan, this guy rented a a Chevy bolt. and he was driving a friend to the airport and on his way home, starting to run a little low, decided we need to stop and charge. No problem. Pulled out the EVGo app, looked for a public charging station nearby.

Found one in McComb Township, which is northwest of Detroit or northeast of Detroit. and pulled in there and you made made a mistake that we're gonna warn you all not to do. Before you ever plug into a public charging station, find out how much they actually charge you. How much how how much they're gonna bill you for the electricity. 'Cause this particular charger was a charge point charger.

And EVGO and ChargePoint have a roaming agreement. So EVGo chargers show up in the ChargePoint app, ChargePoint chargers show up in the EVGo app. you know, they each have their own you know back ends to you know handle billing and everything. and Chargepoint has kind of a unique business model for charging. So they what they do is they build and sell the chargers to site hosts and

Then they run the back end service, you know, so they run the software and do the do all the billing and authentication and everything when you plug in. and the site hosts, they determine what to charge. So a lot of times you can go to like a grocery store or something, and there will be some charge point chargers there. They don't there's no charge. It's just a a nice amenity they provide for customers. Washnock Community College nearby here.

they have a half a dozen charge point level two chargers in their parking garage. They're free to use. this particular charger that this gentleman used was at Elder Hyundai in Macomb Township. Elder Hyundai had this one marked as a public charger. But they did not actually want the public to use this charger. They wanted it to be for for their

staff, you know, for their you know, for charging their vehicles that they that they're dealing with and for their customers, but not for members of the general public. But rather than just making it private, what they did was they they set the rate for this charger. So when when you use a public charger, Robbie, how much do you typically pay?

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:11)
So it depends. It's about let's say about fifty six cents per kilowatt hour. That's about like that's like like the EA E V go. I know Iona's cheaper, I know Tesla's more expensive, but like in the middle, let's just say fifty six cents per kilowatt hour.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:25)
So this this Hyundai dealer set the rate at five dollars per kilowatt hour

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:31)
Like.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:32)
and five dollars per minute. So a session

fee and charging fee. And this guy, you know, this guy unfortunate guy plugged in, plugged in the bolt for forty four minutes to charge it up.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:47)
As you would.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:07:49)
Got a bill for four hundred and eighteen dollars to charge the bolt.

Roberto Baldwin (1:07:53)
So so this is so with with charge point. So this happened to me. Not like this, by the way. Not this much.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:00)
huh.

Roberto Baldwin (1:08:01)
There is a there there there is a is a library? It's something. I I think it's like a it's something and they have three charge points in front in front of their their building and they're closed on the weekend. So I've gone there and used the charger

For I went there and used it for a video. I'm like, no one's around. I need something I can plug, just plug in and plug unplug, to show the video. Well, the way they have it set up is when you plug in, there is a fifteen dollar charge just to plug in, and then they charge the usual per kilowatt hour. So I don't ever go there 'cause I pay got paid eighteen dollars for like five minutes charging it. And and what it do what they do is that this is like at at SAE headquarters we have

EA we have we have charge point chargers, but they're for the staff. They're you know, they're they're private and you have to use your you know

Sam Abuelsamid (1:08:52)
Right. Yeah, and a lot of businesses

use charge point chargers, you know, for workplace charging, things like that.

Roberto Baldwin (1:08:57)
Yeah.

So your account is associated like the the person who runs those chargers in the building, like what's your account and you tell them and then they unlock it for you. So these businesses like this, they unlock it for, you know, individual accounts. So if he had g so I'm sure all the the pers the people who work at this dealership ha are using the same, you know, Hyundai dealership account, where it doesn't cost them anything, but anyone else who plugs in gets hoed.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:26)
Yeah, 'cause the charge point chargers

Roberto Baldwin (1:09:26)
Royally.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:27)
all have RFID readers and you can get RFID cards and tags. You know, so they probably have you know, all the staff probably have an RFID ta tag for these chargers. So it just d it doesn't charge anything.

Roberto Baldwin (1:09:37)
Yeah. You just tap it on there and it boop.

So

that yeah, that's the th that's the weird the the charge point. I'm always a little because of that eighteen dollar charge.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:47)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:09:48)
Every time you come up to a charge point I'm always like, Okay, what's the how much does it cost to plug in? Like you gotta like really so most of the time because of that

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:53)
You know, fortunately Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:09:56)
I don't use charge point

Sam Abuelsamid (1:09:57)
Yeah. Well fortunately, you know, in the in the ChargePoint app it'll it'll show you what the the rates are and also on the display, it'll tell you on the display. And most most chargers

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:07)
Yeah, it'll tell you.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:08)
will

you know, n whatever whatever network you're using, except for Tesla because they have no displays. so you just have to you have to look in the app to see how much it's gonna be. But for you know, for others it's typically you know, shown on the display. Here's what the rate is gonna be.

you know, for your normal rate and here's what it is if you have like, you know, the subscription you pay like seven or ten bucks a month or whatever and you get a discounted

Roberto Baldwin (1:10:31)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:10:32)
rates. so fortunately, you know, for for this gentleman, yeah, he he called up the one of the local T V stations in Detroit and you know, they did a report on this and he also contacted EV GO, you know, 'cause they were the one you know, E. V. Go, even though they don't own this charger, they guided them towards this charger.

and so they gave him a goodwill refund of like all but like thirteen dollars and change, you know, which would have been the the a typical rate for charging that that

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:00)
So like the regular what it would have cost to Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:04)
car.

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:05)
Yeah. That's I mean that's good. I and that's that's the thing, is that like I have an E Vigo charger mounted to the fence of my house. So I like Evigo stuff. And

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:13)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:11:13)
I lied, I do use an E Vigo charger. There's one into Hatchby at the Denny's.

And it charges like sixty something kilowatts. So it's perfect for going in and like 'cause I always hang out with one of my friends at the Denny's in Tahatchby when I go and visit 'cause the only thing that's open late. And I can charge whatever car. Usually it's either my car or some sort of E V that I'm testing. And I can char I can plug it in and it'll charge for like an hour or two while I eat my dinner. So it's a nice little like, I like this because it's not charging at three hundred fifty kilowatts and now I gotta move my car. It's like, Hey, you wanna just charge here while you eat? Cool. I mean it's

But it has the pricing and the pricing is just regular pricing.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:11:50)
Yeah. So

yeah, bottom line, before you plug into a public charger, make sure you check the prices. you know, and if it if it's not listed, then you know, find another charger. And you know, I looked I looked

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:04)
Yeah, look at the app.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:06)
on the alternative fuels data center map, you know, and and this this charger has since you know, since this happened, this charger has been marked as private, so it's no longer listed as public.

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:17)
okay. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:19)
and you know, there there was you know, there was a couple of other D C fast chargers like within a within two miles of this one. so unless you're like, you know, stone cold dead, you know, use use a different charger.

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:30)
I feel bad 'cause this person is probably

like this personal is probably like, you know what, I don't need to charge at three fifty because I have a I have a Chevy bolt. This one's

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:37)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:37)
only one f you know, two hundred, but I don't like go here. So they're trying to be a good person. And

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:42)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:43)
they got hosed. And the money doesn't go to E V Go, like, you know, they get some money. It it goes it it I'm I'm sorry, the money doesn't go

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:46)
Right, it goes to charge point. Yeah. It it was just a convenience.

Roberto Baldwin (1:12:50)
to charge point. It goes to the to the dealership. They're the ones getting the four hundred and something dollars.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:12:53)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean

ChargePoint gets a a percentage of that, but yeah, most of it goes to the dealer. so the you know on on the flip side of that, yeah, Norway, you know, Norway which has been leading the world in adoption of E Vs, you know, they're it's like something like nine almost ninety nine percent of new vehicle sales in Norway are electric now.

Roberto Baldwin (1:13:19)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:13:20)
and

Norway also has amazing charging infrastructure. and most of it is not DC fast charging. they recently Statistics Norway published some data that the city of Oslo, the capital, now has four thousand five hundred and nineteen public charging points just within one city. and of those, seventy-eight percent of those are

were rated between th they're level two chargers. They're rated between three point six and forty three kilowatts. so you know and then a six another six hundred and eleven were rated between fifty and two hundred and fifty kilowatts and three hundred and seventy six were rated above three hundred kilowatts. So this you know, they have curbside charging everywhere in Oslo. and you know it's the way it should be. You know wherever wherever there's places to park

They should have these posts. You know, and the way the

Roberto Baldwin (1:14:18)
Yeah, it's

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:19)
way they do it there is the cable is not permanently connected to the charging post. You know, that they just you just have electricity running to the charging post. You bring your own cable in the car. There's a standard connector on there. You plug it in, you plug it into your car. When you're done, you unplug, put the cable, throw the cable back in your trunk, and you know, next time you st park somewhere, you plug it in there. and this is the

Roberto Baldwin (1:14:42)
It's it it's

it's amazing. The bring your own cable. I've done it in Germany. And so like you know, I you know the the one of the issues with cables like just hanging there is that people have been stealing them. And also if it's like on a on a public walkway, now you guys got a cable that's you know, someone doesn't put it up, someone knocks it over, someone vandalizes it, now it's in the walkway. So Yeah, it's breaks.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:14:59)
Or if that if it falls on the on the roadway, somebody drives over it.

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:04)
Yeah. So the bring your own cable model, I do not understand why the United States is not like no one, everyone's like, we're gonna put cables

on a giant thing that lowers it down. It's like we're over engineering a very simple problem. Which

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:17)
Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:17)
is just bring your own cable. That's it. I've used it in Germany. Whenever I go I've been to Norway and I'm like, this is the ma this is amazing. This is this why? It's because they're just if you look at if you look at them, they're just boxes. It's just here's a box. It's just like a bollard. Book. And you just

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:34)
With a plug.

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:35)
everyone has the cable in their car. It comes with your car. And you

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:38)
Well in some cars, like I think it's

the Fiat Panda, i the it has the cable in the front. And actually when

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:45)
it's got the

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:46)
when you it yeah, it's it's like a it's coiled, like you know, like the air hose. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:49)
It's like an old vacuum cleaner.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:15:52)
Yeah, so it's coiled up, you know, and you just open the flap, you pull the cable out, plug it into the post, you're good to go.

Roberto Baldwin (1:15:59)
No, it's like bringing your own cable is is is super smart. It's super easy. Because at that point you you're not gonna cut into this cable to steal it because there's electricity going through it. So to bring your own cable, I don't I I I g it's it's been years of me complaining about it and I will continue to to shout it from the rooftops. Bring your own cable is the right way to do AC charging. Period.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:24)
And and there are

there are a few companies here in the US, like it's electric that are doing this now. you know, and they've got

Roberto Baldwin (1:16:30)
good.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:16:31)
deployments in several cities now, including in Detroit. you know, and where they have a you know, they're they're set up, you know, they have a a post and so they work with building owners, to you know, and so all they gotta do is run like a small little narrow trench through the sidewalk to run a power line into the building.

and runs out to the post. you can go to the It's Electric website, you can get a cable from them, keep it in your car. You know, if you live somewhere where there's it's electric it's electric chargers and you have an account when you plug in it charges your account and you know the the r the money from that is split between the the building owner and it's electric.

Roberto Baldwin (1:17:19)
I think I have a I have a video where I well I have I use bring your own cable, but I don't know if it's about bring your own cable, so I'm gonna look it up because if it is, then you can see just how ridiculous and easy it is. And it's it it b again, it makes me so angry that we don't

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:38)
all right. and then do you remember the Chevy Beretta?

Roberto Baldwin (1:17:44)
I do remember the Beretta.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:17:46)
I I remember the Beretta 'cause I was I was still an engineering co op student. I was going to GMI, I was working at GM Canada when the Beretta came out and you know at the plant that I worked at in Saint Catharines, we built the engines, the V six engines that they used in the Berettas. So it had like the two you know, the same two point eight liter V six or an updated version of the the two point eight liter V six that originally came out in the citation in like nineteen eighty. by that time we were doing fuel injected versions and

There were later, you know, different variations of it, a three point one and a three point five liter. Well, Chevy wanted to do a more powerful version of the Beretta, in the late eighties, early nineties because like Ford, they thought, you know, we need to move away from the big V eight powered Camaros, you know, just like Ford was saying about yeah, we need to we need to have something more a more fuel efficient replacement for the Mustang.

And Ford, you know, saw the the error of their ways and decided, yeah, this this this Mazda based vehicle that we were gonna sell as a new front wheel drive Mustang, that's gonna be that's gonna be the Ford probe. so that became the probe and they kept building rear wheel drive Mustangs up until this day. but you know GM had their own idea about this.

And they took a version, they took a beretta and built a prototype. and they decided to put a V eight in it. And you know, at that time GM still owned a big stake in Isuzu. And Isuzu had a little three point two liter V eight engine or three point five liter V eight engine that they they dropped it in there. they put it they put it into this Beretta.

and they called it the Ferretta. not not sure exactly why.

Roberto Baldwin (1:19:49)
Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:19:51)
but you can see, you know, if you're watching the video, lots of vents in the hood to cool this thing. and had had this little V eight mounted transversely in the Beretta. I can just imagine the torque steer from this car.

Roberto Baldwin (1:20:07)
So every time you put your your foot on the the accelerator, it's just like whoa Like hold on tight. It was one of those hold on tight cars.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:20:16)
yeah, very much so. so they you know, they they obviously never put this into production. but they did keep the prototype around in the in the GM Heritage Center for for a number of years. until two thousand nine when GM was going through his bankruptcy. And you know, in order to raise some cash, they sold off a bunch of the cars from the Heritage Center.

and this was one of them. So the Ferretta, as as GM called it, is in the hands of private owners. so it's it's out there somewhere. I think it's currently owned by some guy in Florida. yeah, it's never you know, it's never really been modified, you know, or restored because there's no parts for it. No you can't get any parts for

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:08)
Yeah, you're

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:10)
this engine 'cause it was never put into production.

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:17)
I'm gonna find this video.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:17)
So

so that that's the f the V eight Beretta.

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:20)
The Ferretta.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:21)
The Ferretta.

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:22)
It's very weird when you're like, we gotta make some money. Let's sell off these cars. I really don't feel like those cars make enough money for to make even a dent in like any issues that they're having. It's probably more like we need to free up s let's get rid of this building. So we have to sell these cars 'cause we don't have anywhere to put these vehicles. We're just like Yeah, let's let's

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:35)
Yeah. Free free up some space. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:21:41)
let's get rid of those.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:21:43)
And then finally, last week Secretary of Energy Sean Duffy had a had a speech because the Trump administration is finalizing its new corporate average fuel economy regulations and basically rolling it back from you know what was gonna be what was targeted, you know, under the Biden administration they were targeting fifty point four miles per gallon fleet average.

by twenty thirty one.

Roberto Baldwin (1:22:14)
Which is a long way.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:22:15)
yeah, and they've they've they're rolling it back to thirty four and a half miles per gallon. but you know Duffy was claiming that you know this is gonna reduce the price of new cars by nine hundred and thirty dollars. No.

Roberto Baldwin (1:22:30)
What? How?

Sam Abuelsamid (1:22:34)
It's it it's it's AI math.

Roberto Baldwin (1:22:37)
Does he not I don't

I don't think he knows how cars hard manufacturing works.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:22:41)
No. Well

the thing is, you know, okay, even even if they, you know, were able to get rid of some stuff, you know, and you know, that make the cars less fuel efficient and make them cheaper, it's actually still gonna cost you more to buy that cheap that slightly cheaper car. Yeah. And that's assuming that any manufacturer actually reduced the price of the car, which they won't.

Yeah, and I you know, I wrote a I wrote an article for the telemetry blog about this. you know, that the claims of savings are a lie. yeah, because what's what would end up happening is if they did reduce the the average and the thing to keep in mind about the corporate average fuel economy numbers, these are based on the original two cycle tests, the original city and highway drive cycles, unadjusted numbers. So these are the

the tests that they came up with back in the nineteen seventies. And they still have those tests, but this isn't these are not the numbers that the car can actually do or that goes on the window sticker. So the fifty mile per gallon, fifty miles per gallon actually comes out to I think it was about thirty some yeah, or no, let's see. yeah, it's about thirty f thirty four or thirty six miles per gallon, roughly. So

If if your car was getting fifty miles per gallon according to Cafe, it would actually be somewhere in the mid thirties. yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:24:14)
Yeah. On the sticker. So when you go and you look at the card

it says it gets thirty six miles per gallon. You're cool, that's a good that's a good yeah. I just drove a prelude

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:19)
And there's lots of cars out there that do that today. Like the Honda Prelude.

Roberto Baldwin (1:24:24)
was getting like forty two or something.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:26)
Yeah.

So you know, based on, you know, four miles per gallon or four dollars per gallon gas, which, you know, is way cheaper than you can actually get in California. if if you you know you know the current the current national average is four four ten a gallon.

Roberto Baldwin (1:24:39)
Yeah. Just rubbing it in, aren't you? Whew.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:24:46)
you you would s you would be paying about six hundred and fifty dollars a year more for for

Just for gas. So even if you saved nine hundred and thirty bucks, after eighteen months, less than eighteen months, you would already be paying more and you would continue paying more and more and more for as long as you drove that car.

Roberto Baldwin (1:25:10)
I don't I don't really understand like it's like hey hey everybody stop working on what you're doing that's the but at the end of the day everyone's still like well we're gonna keep putting hybrids and things because people like saving money on gas that's the that's the other thing clearly the market is spoken the market wants better gas mileage even if you never want to drive an EV you probably want to drive a hybrid

I mean there are people who are I'll never drive a higher bread because I don't know why. But really th the average person just they want their car and they would like it to get better gas mileage because gas is expensive and even when gas isn't really expensive and it's just sort of expensive, they still would like to save money.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:25:54)
Yeah.

And the price premium for hybrids now, you know, i has shrunk so much, you know, it's typically in a lot of cases it's less than two thousand dollars. Yeah.

Roberto Baldwin (1:26:03)
Yeah, it's nearly parody. It's like EV,

like ne EV versus gas is nearly parody as well. We're getting to a point where it's like, well, there's so much money. I'm like, not really. The amount of money you're gonna save over the lifetime of your vehicle is way more than what you're gonna like save buying your vehicle. So yeah, I don't and I still don't understand where they get this number of n I just that's such a w

Sam Abuelsamid (1:26:25)
They made it up.

Roberto Baldwin (1:26:26)
it's such a weird night one

Sam Abuelsamid (1:26:29)
They made it up. Like they like they do everything.

Roberto Baldwin (1:26:32)
Yeah.

I don't know.

I get it. I get I get Department of Energy press releases like three times a day and every time I'm just like, What is the hap what are we doing? so so I found a video about me and curbside parking. I never edit it together because I had another Porsche video that was due at the same time and it was with a Porsche. So maybe

I'll edit that together sometime over the next week or two before I start traveling again. And then and then we could here's a video of me just plugging a car in in Germany with the bring your

phone cable and it was a Porsche so it a purple Porsche so it looks cool. Yeah.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:08)
perfect. Was that what the

when you drove the the taekon cross turismo? Or sport turismo?

Roberto Baldwin (1:27:11)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. When I drove it to

Germ yeah, when I was driving around Germany. and I talked to the the head of Powertrain who tal who told me about how they made it better and stuff and yeah. Really nice guy. Smart guy too.

Sam Abuelsamid (1:27:27)
Alright, well I think that's all we've got for this week. we'll talk to you all next time. Bye.

Roberto Baldwin (1:27:34)
Bye.